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Thrive By Design

53 Episodes

20 minutes | a year ago
54: The Value of Employee Engagement (part 4) with Nathan Rogge
The final episode in our 4-part series about engaging, and re-engaging employees. In this episode Don talks to Nathan Rogge, President and CEO of the Bank of Southern California. Subscribe to the show on iTunes, Spotify, Stitcher, and Google Play. Nathan Rogge [00:00:09] My perception, and maybe this is a little selfish, is that going back to those clients that I want to serve in the hyper-competitive environment in the only way to provide an amazing customer experience, is to do it with empowered and engaged employees. And so this isn’t so much about satisfaction. I mean, I hope that everyone is is satisfied. But more importantly, I’m really concerned about. Do they understand how they fit into the organization and why what they do every day is so important to the overall cause of providing a great customer experience to those small to medium sized businesses. Don [00:00:40] My name is Don Rheem, CEO of E3 Solutions and author of the book Thrive by Design: The Neuroscience That Drives High Performance Cultures. I speak across North America on the neuroscience of engagement, and I’m passionate about helping leaders at every level create engaging workplace environments where employees feel safe, recognized and validated. Employees who feel safe are happier, healthier and more productive. Each week my team and I take on topics impacting managers and we offer solutions to your biggest workplace challenges. And you’re listening to Thrive by Design, a podcast created by E3 Solutions to give managers, CEOs and leaders tips, strategies and tools needed to create an engaged culture at work. Don [00:01:41] Welcome. I’m your host, Don Rheem, CEO of E3 Solutions. Today, the next conversation in our new series with industry leaders about the challenges of employee engagement. I’m delighted to welcome Nathan Rogge, the President and CEO of the Bank of Southern California, where he’s worked since 2006. Last year, Nathan was recognized as a most admired CEO by the San Diego Business Journal, and under his leadership, the bank was honored as one of the city’s best places to work. Welcome, Nathan, and thanks for being here today. Tell us a little bit about the Bank of Southern California and your work culture there. Nathan Rogge [00:02:20] A little background on the bank – it was originally started under a different name out in a rural portion of San Diego and really was a tiny little organization. I always like to tell people that that bank got in trouble with the regulators before it was sexy to get in trouble with the regulators before the recession. And we’ve really spent a lot of time taking that little rural bank and transforming it into what we aspire to be, which is a regional bank focused on small and medium sized businesses in Southern California. Don [00:02:48] You’ve got a lot of competition. What what distinguishes you from similar banks in the area? Nathan Rogge [00:02:54] That’s a great point. In fact, Southern California, fifth, sixth largest economy in the world. There are literally an infinite amount of financial institutions and or competition out there. We do think that by being extremely focused on that small to medium sized business client, a client who really needs a relationship with the bank, and this is an important aspect. We we focus on really experienced bankers in the market that we serve and maybe our little niche or where we hope to differentiate ourselves. We’d like to move fast and competently. So we spend a lot of time on that. That’s that’s who we are, because there are there are, like I said, an infinite amount of choices for the same clients. Don [00:03:35] Well, I love those two distinguishing characteristics, relational and agile, that as a small business man myself, that would be wonderful because I don’t have that in my regionally, so I haven’t found it yet. I know you’re very aspirational and where you want to go. Every time I come out and we measure engagement, you have more employees you’ve acquired and it seems like additional banks. But in all of this growth that you’re involved with. Nathan, why pause, if you will, and have this focus on employee engagement and measure it? Nathan Rogge [00:04:04] Let’s go back to that comment about growth. The tiny little bank that I started with was about 36 million dollars in total assets. That means loans. And the offsetting deposits we have. If you look backwards, we’ve doubled the size of the bank about every three years. Now, obviously, going from 36 million to 72 million dollars is a lot easier feat than going from 500 million to a billion. But the concept is still the same, which is repeating that process of providing an amazing experience for your clients and doing it with what we believe is an important component. Is it a highly engaged employee group? Now, when you’re growing like that, you do have this interesting dynamic, which is you’re looking organically to grow and we do that very well. But then we do an acquisition about one every one to two years. And so that means bringing on an entire new group of people who didn’t necessarily sign up to work for you. Yeah. And so to come in with a highly engaged workforce to start out and also be able to explain to those new employees that are coming on board who we are and what we aspire to be is very important. And so the engagement component of this for those employees is really one of the biggest concerns. And I also think that one of the reasons why we’re so successful, a lot of people let leaders that feel that they’re focused on employee engagement are actually very focused on employee satisfaction. And we see the two is completely different place employees satisfaction being an attitude in employee engagement being a behavior. Don [00:05:39] But how do you see it as a leader? Is this just about making employees happy? Or is this something else? Nathan Rogge [00:05:45] My perception and maybe this is a little selfish, is that going back to those clients that I want to serve in the hyper competitive environment is the only way to provide an amazing customer experience is to do it with empowered and engaged employees. And so to your point, this isn’t so much about satisfaction. I mean, I hope that everyone is is satisfied, but more importantly, I’m really concerned about. Do they understand how they fit into the organization? Why what they do every day is so important to the overall cause of providing a great customer experience to those small and medium sized businesses. Don [00:06:18] And, you know, it’s interesting, Nathan, because the research bears that out. One study correlated employee engagement at point eighty five with customer engagement, that it’s almost a one to one relationship. And if you can increase employee engagement by 10 percent, then would make sense that customer engagement would go up by eight and a half percent. But the customer experience is. What develops that emotional connection with a company we talk about creating emotional Velcro between an employee and their employer, but you’re also in the business of creating emotional Velcro between the bank and the customer. Nathan Rogge [00:06:53] I think the challenge in banking or finance and a lot of businesses might have this is most people don’t wake up in the morning and decide that they want to change their bank. In fact, I can think of about a million things I’d rather do rather than change my bank. It’s on the business owner. So once you’re at that spot one, you’re trying to figure out who do I want to have that relationship on a go forward? And how do I make sure that I’m working with the right company? And I think those engaged employees show that they are the right people to be working with. I also think, on the other hand, that once you come to bank with us, there is very little chance that you’re going to leave. Now, once again, I can’t 100 percent guarantee that on a transactional, I don’t know, real estate loan. But when it comes to the true relationship of where my deposits are and maybe where my line of credit is, things where I need to be working with the bank on a daily basis, that’s where we think we shine. And that’s, by the way, where we think those engaged employees are so important. Don [00:07:49] So when when we measure engagement like we do with you year over year, there’s always a group of employees that fall into the category of either actively disengaged or somewhat disengaged. What is the danger of those employees in your mind? Why is it so important to know how many they are and where they are? [00:08:06] I think it does help to understand that you do have these people in the organization and at least in generalities where they’re located. My particular concern is when there are customer facing. Just understanding that that will translate into a poor customer experience. And that’s going to affect our bottom line. I think one of the other challenges, particularly early on, was understanding that some of those most disengaged employees were also some in some key positions and had been at the bank for a while. Yes. And I think that was definitely an eye opener. And then, you know, to your point, that’s a challenge. You know, these aren’t people that you just walk in and go, you know, it’s not a good fit. Have a nice day. Yeah. This is really, you know, systemic to the organization. So obviously very happy with where our numbers have gone. But I think it’s that original identification or acknowledgement of, hey, we all have a problem. We think we’ve got it figured out. There’s a lot of work to be done. And I think thatR
21 minutes | a year ago
53: The Value of Engaged Employees (Part 3) with Kate Donahue
The third conversation in our four-part series: this time with Kate Donahue, President and CEO of the Hampford Research Group. Subscribe to Thrive by Design on iTunes, Spotify, Stitcher, and Google Play. Kate Donahue [00:00:03] Well, I think they’ve seen that we walk the walk and talk the talk. It’s not just lip service. They’ve seen us flip some people like literally move them, some disengage to engage, but also deal with the people that for whatever reason used to be engaged. And it’s a happy place to be. We enjoy coming to work. I talk to people about I don’t just want you to be happy here ……I want your spouses, your significant other, to be happy that you work at Hanford Research. Don [00:00:37] My name is Don Rheem, CEO of E3 Solutions and author of the book Thrive by Design: The Neuroscience That Drives High Performance Cultures. I speak across North America on the neuroscience of engagement, and I’m passionate about helping leaders at every level create engaging workplace environments where employees feel safe, recognized and valued. Employees who feel safe are happier, healthier and more productive. Each week, my team and I take on topics impacting managers and we offer solutions to your biggest workplace challenges. And you’re listening to Thrive by Design, a podcast created by E3 Solutions to give managers, CEOs and leaders tips, strategies and tools needed to create an engaged culture at work. Don [00:01:38] Welcome. I’m your host, Don Rheem, CEO of E3 Solutions. Today, the next conversation in our new series with industry leaders about the challenges of employee engagement. I’m delighted to welcome Kate Donahue, the President and CEO of the Hanford Research Group, which specializes in chemicals for multiple industries including electronics, printing and personal care through many years of leadership. Kate is committed to creating a work environment which leverages the experience and expertise of her staff to encourage both personal and professional development. Welcome, Kate. And thanks for being here today. Kate, would you start by just telling us a little bit about the Hanford Research Group, how long the company has been in existence and what you do? Kate Donahue [00:02:23] Well, first of all, thank you for inviting me on your podcast. I am thrilled to be here today. Hampton Research is a 35 year old, second generation specialty chemical manufacturer located in Connecticut. And we make things that go into a variety of important items that people use every day. So, for instance, smartphones and computers, a whole bunch of personal care materials like makeups, lotions and creams. We make a lot of specialized materials for adhesives and coatings. And if you’ve ever had a composite dental selling, we make a number of materials that go into that now. Don [00:03:04] And how many employees do you have, Kate? Kate Donahue [00:03:06] Thirty five. Don [00:03:07] OK. You’ve been with us a number of years. You started measuring engagement in your organization several years ago. What was it about employee engagement, measuring it and do something about it that resonated with you? Kate Donahue [00:03:19] Well, I think a couple of things. We had started on a journey of continuous improvement and employee engagement came up as an idea. It made sense to me to try to figure out how do we get more engagement from people? What does that even mean? I actually started, Don, when you presented to a group that I said I belong to a CTO, peer to peer group. And I was so intrigued by the topic and your presentation about the way the brain works and how engagement between people works that I said this is something that I think actually helped us. And I can’t even begin to enumerate the ways that it has. But I will if you’d like me to. Don [00:04:04] I will ask you to a little bit later on. I don’t want to dove into that too quickly. I’m really interested primarily in the leaders that make the decision to invest in employee engagement. And I don’t mean invest in terms of just money. I mean that mental investment, the intellectual investment, the the being intentional about it is something that you did early on. And I don’t know what it is about a chemical company where I didn’t expect it to happen there, which is the same as in other production of manufacturing, which has had kind of a traditional mindset of employees or are just parts of the machine. And if they don’t work out, we pop a mountain, put someone new in. But it is true, over five years ago, you saw this as something that could be crucial for creating the kind of company where you would leave a legacy you were proud of. Kate Donahue [00:04:53] That’s exactly right. I mean, I think you kind of hit on one of the touch points for me, which was that my dad founded the company. I took over 12 years ago, literally months before he passed away. And I’m neither a chemist for a chemical engineer. So I came into this from 20 years in another industry. So I really had to find a way to run the company that worked for me. And that obviously wasn’t gonna be exactly the same way as he had because I was a chemist. That wasn’t even within the realm of possibility. But over time, I had to change a lot about the way the company ran. And by the time I stumbled upon you and your approach, I had realized that we had changed a lot of things about the company. But there was still this niggling piece about it wasn’t just about what employees were doing, which which I had done a lot of work on the why and the how. And when I got your presentation, there was this light bulb coming off that said, OK, this might be a way for me to try to figure out this final piece that I don’t quite understand right now. So we did the survey the first year. It was honestly disappointing results, right. It was not happy with our scores. But because of the way that you organized this structure, it there were some very clear areas where we knew if we focused on them, we could probably be a little bit better. And that has been the way we’ve approached this year in and year out. We have looked at the areas where our scores of the lowest or scores have dropped from one year to another and said there’s only going to be three to five things we’re going to focus on as a management team. And we have seen the progress, I think, on top of that. You also gave us the tools. So not just: Oh, OK. here’s numerically where you stand. But then here’s the things you can do about it. So the bucket of resources for training, assessment tools that you offer, the ongoing support has just been incredible. What what we’ve been able to do and it’s been I think mostly by having the tools that you gave us to understand where we are and then the tools to try to address the things that we want to change. And we have now, I think, created a culture that is so deeply embedded that now we don’t even hire people unless they’ve gone through the assessment process so that we make sure they’re going to be capable and interesting of being engaged in the way that we expect all our employees to be now. Don [00:07:23] Well, on that and that’s just brilliant because we know that the issue of whether an employee is going to be a successful new hire has much less to do with their resumé than it does with their fit with the culture. And the last thing you want to do is bring in someone who is technically competent, maybe with years of experience and what you need them to do, but they’re just ripping your culture apart at every chance they get. That kind of a person can be very, very damaging. Kate Donahue [00:07:50] But what we realized was that people that are disengaged, if you don’t deal with them, you’re virtually giving everybody else permission to be disengaged. And then when you flip the dynamic where the majority of the people are engaged and the minority are disengaged and the pressure just continues to mount to be either be engaged or to move on. And we’ve actually been able, I think, very humanely and fairly and able to continue to make the changes with our team that have allowed us to move out. The people, for whatever reason, don’t want to be engaged again humanely and fairly and bring in continue to bring in people and get better at bringing in people that actually want to be in our kind of company. Not saying that the way we do things is for everybody, but it works for us now really well.  Don [00:08:46] Well, you’ve identified something really important that when we allow disengaged behaviors to continue in an organization that does lower the bar. And what I try to tell managers and leaders or clients that anything, any behavior that you accept, you’ve endorsed. Exactly. Any behavior you accept, you’ve endorsed. And so one of the most corrosive things about disengagement and having disengaged employees is what it does to the street cred of leaders. Employees wonder why won’t my leaders take care of this? And I’m just curious if you had any just specific feedback. Kate, as you’ve been doing this steadily now for the last several years, do you sense a change in how employees view you as a leader, being a non chemist and just taking over the company? Do people look at you differently today? Kate Donahue [00:09:37] Well, I think they’ve seen that we walk the walk and talks the talk. It’s not just lip service. They’ve seen us flip. Some people like literally move them, some disengaged to engage, but also deal with the people that for whatever reason, refuse to be engaged. And it’s what’s a happy place to be. We enjoy coming to work. I talk to people about I
18 minutes | a year ago
52: The Value of Engaged Employees (Part 2) with Les Smolin
The second conversation in our four-part series: this time with Les Smolin, a Group Chairman of Vistage International, and host of Executive Leaders Radio. Listen to Thrive by Design on iTunes, Spotify, Stitcher, and Google Play. Don [00:01:47] Welcome. I’m your host, Don Rheem, CEO of E3 Solutions today. The next conversation in our new series with industry leaders about the challenges of employee engagement. I’m delighted to welcome Les Smolin, a group chairman of Vistage International, the world’s leading organization for CEOs. He is also the founder and CEO of the Executive Leadership Forum, which specializes in leadership development and consulting mostly for middle market companies. He is a prominent broadcaster, the host of Executive Leaders Radio, a business program heard on multiple stations across the country. The show features key interviews with prominent industry leaders. Welcome, Les – Thanks for being here today. Les Smolin [00:02:32] Thanks, Don. It’s a pleasure to be on the show. Don [00:02:35] So first, we’ve had you on before and it was a really enjoyable conversation, but some of the folks listening today may not be familiar with Vistage and your role as a chair in the Vistage community. Can you just give us the elevator speech on Vistage in your role? Les Smolin [00:02:51] Vistage is what I consider to be the most trusted global executive leadership development company for small and mid-sized businesses. It’s got a global learning platform and strategic partnerships kind of position it to prepare our members to successfully compete in what you and I would call an increasingly more complex business environment. You know my role, I run several groups in the D.C. Washington, D.C. metro area and then I also engage nationally and internationally with my colleagues. Don [00:03:20] So Les, how long have you been working with CEOs in this capacity? Les Smolin [00:03:25] In my role with Vistage, I’ve been doing this for over 25 years now. Don [00:03:28] And I wanted folks to hear that. That’s one of the key reasons why I wanted to have you on was because your level of experience working with CEOs is extraordinary. And you’ve seen just about everything. And I have had the pleasure of speaking to your Vistage groups about employee engagement. Tell us, why is employee engagement important to your CEOs? Les Smolin [00:03:48] That’s a great question. And I don’t think it’s as obvious as as people would think it is if you’re running a business. Everybody knows that it’s fraught with all kinds of landmines. It’s not as easy as it once was, even 20, 30, 40 years ago. The world’s a lot more complex. And the cost is, I think of that, of making a bad decision is expensive. So if you try and go it alone, it’s not the answer, nor can you be expected to know the answers yourself. So for me, when I think about employee engagement, it’s an imperative need to engage them. And it’s not just what they’re capable of, but also what potentially they can do to help you successfully compete in whatever companies they operate. The thing that’s a competitive advantage, it’s unleashing what really is the potential of people. And I don’t think a lot of small and mid-sized businesses. Heck, I don’t I don’t care how big or small the company is, they don’t really engage their employees in a way in which they maximize what is possible in order to be effective in their markets, less in these markets. Don [00:04:48] Should you talk about the growing complexity of being a leader? No question. With combination of metrics and the application of science and competitive analytics. But also one of the big pressures right now and I don’t want to date the broadcast, but we are recording at the end of 2019 and we just received the numbers from the U.S. Department of Labor yesterday. We added another two hundred sixty six thousand employees to the workforce last month. We’re now at the lowest unemployment rate since the Vietnam War. The unemployment rate is down at three point five percent, which is considered full employment. How much pressure does this put on leaders when there’s no more talent pool? There’s not even a talent puddle in America today. We’re drilling for talent. How does employee engagement fit in and why is it relevant to that pressure? Les Smolin [00:05:33] You know, it’s a great question. And I’ve thought a lot about it, especially since I’ve been listening to you a lot and every other channel or media that you can listen to these days where the reference to the talent pool is not getting any bigger. And to me, it doesn’t matter whether the talent pool is shrinking or is growing as the fact that we’ve got talent already and we’re really not getting out of them what we need to. And it may be simple or it may be a whole lot more complex, so large or small, growing or shrinking. I think the idea is we’re not engaging employees the way we need to in order to get the most out of that. We’re paying them for it, but we’re not getting what we really can from them. Don [00:06:16] What is the role of CEOs here? So you’ve said you’ve seen dozens and dozens of CEOs over the over the years in your role as a leader in Vistage. What seems to be some of the key differences from the employees that get this and act and those that just think the world is going to operate like it always has? Les Smolin [00:06:32] I think among the leaders, you said it a little earlier. I think folks think this is really hard. They’re not really sure how to grab a hold of it. So they’ll listen to someone like you and talk about it. They’ll look at the data that you share with them. And yet they’re not sure what to do with it. So on one hand, you have those people who I think their hearts are in it, but they’re not sure exactly how to get started. On the other hand, I think there are those that are in it, but they’re not sure exactly if it’s the right stuff that they’re working on. And so it’s easy to get distracted from whatever the shiny object is that kind of appears in front of you. And so they kind of put it to the side because they think of it as something soft. But in fact, it’s not. It’s the hard stuff. But it’s also there’s data around it, as you well know. Yes. That is the evidence that if only they could see that what the possibilities were, then they would probably grab it as hard as they grab anything else and make it the top initiative in anything they do. Don [00:07:29] There’s something about the fact that when I look at organizations and how they use science, they use it just about everything they do. They’re using it in supply chain. They’re using it in finances. They’re doing LEIGH, they’re doing Six Sigma. They’re doing everything they can. But when it comes to the science of what drives human behavior, most organizations seem about two decades behind that science. What is it from your perspective that makes the science of human behavior or focusing on the conditions where people thrive that is so hard for CEOs? Is it because it’s new, it’s mysterious. What’s going on? Les Smolin [00:08:04] You know, I wish I had the magic Bowl that would answer the question. In my experience, I think maybe there’s a couple of things here. As you mentioned, the science relatively new. So you have a lot of managers that have been around for 20, 30, 40 years. That’s science to them as new and emerging, even though it’s 20 years in the making. So far, we’re beginning to truly understand how science is driving the science behind behavior. So I think that’s one thing. I think the second thing is this. We all get caught up in old habits. So when we get introduced to things, if we’re exposed to things, if we’re in an environment where we’re constantly being exposed to new science, if you will, I think we’re more inclined to want to gravitate towards it. But we still need something to take us the next step. The thing that puts traction around, the thing that gives us the ability to act on it. So I think those two things in particular might actually make it more difficult for people who otherwise would want to work with this and to take the science and put it to work. Don [00:09:05] You know, and I should say for listeners that this is one of the first podcasts you’re listening to. Ed E3 Solutions, everything we do is based on empirically validated research around what drives human behavior. And when I wrote the book Thrive by Design – the Neuroscience that Drives High Performance Cultures, my goal and objective was to bring this science of what we now know, the conditions where human beings thrive and we know it down literally to the cellular level in the brain. And all we need and want leaders to do is to replicate these conditions that the brain essentially has been searching for since birth and start to create it inside the workplace. And when leaders do that, employees thrive. That is, they operate at their best. And the beautiful part of this is engaged. Employees are not only more productive and innovative and collaborative and happier, but they’re helping the organization be more profitable and they feel better at the same time. It’s a it’s a win win for both. Don [00:10:04] So Les you’ve seen organizations with great leaders where engagement is high. What do you see as the differences there? [00:10:10] I think the thing that I see more often is the folks who are able to really grasp the idea of what it means to have
21 minutes | a year ago
51: The Value of Engaged Employees (Part 1) with Betsy Reade Creech
The first in a 4-part series about engaging, and re-engaging employees. In this episode Don chats with Special Guest Betsy Reade Creech, the Director of Talent at the Kane Realty Corporation. Subscribe to the show on iTunes, Spotify, Stitcher, and Google Play. Don [00:01:28] Welcome. I’m your host, Don Rheem, CEO of E3 Solutions. Today, the first in a series of interviews with industry leaders about the challenges of employee engagement. I’m delighted to welcome Betsy Reade Creech, the Director of Talent at the Kane Realty Corporation. Her responsibilities include strategic design, employment, branding, workforce planning and operational excellence. Betsy focuses on retaining and developing the company’s employees while also enhancing their skills. She’s been involved in human resources her entire professional career as a leader and consultant in a variety of settings, including large global companies and smaller, fast paced, growing organizations. Welcome, Betsy, and thanks for being here today. Betsy Reade Creech [00:02:15] Well, thank you for having me. Don [00:02:16] Tell us a little bit about Kane Realty, where you are and what you do. Betsy Reade Creech [00:02:20] I’ll be happy to. So Kane Realty is a full service, real estate development and management company located in Raleigh, North Carolina. We’ve been in business since 1978 and our focus is on very high quality office, retail, multifamily and mixed use properties. So that’s where we spend our time and our energy and our talents. The goal of Kane Realty is to create irresistible places where people want to gather. So really, really community based in that way. Don [00:02:56] Yes, I’ve been to at least one of your communities in Raleigh Durham, and it is a truly beautiful, gorgeous space. I mean, at least to my untrained eye, it’s just you guys have accomplished that goal. About how many employees do you have? Betsy Reade Creech [00:03:08] So we have around 240 employees. I’ve been here about three and a half years. And when I came on board, we were probably a little over a hundred employees. So as you can see from the numbers, we’ve experienced quite a bit of growth over the last few years and can continue that growth. Don [00:03:30] What distinguishes you from similar companies in your field? What sets Kane apart? Betsy Reade Creech [00:03:35] Yeah, well, great question. And I think about that often because we really are different. Although we’re a real estate development and property management company, we consider ourselves to be in the place-making space. And I’ve already mentioned that we pay a lot attention to the details and create places that people naturally want to gather. But we do this with a team of people that really pay attention to all of the details. They know they invest. We invest in the community from the standpoint of understanding and appreciating the history. And the projects are complicated and take a lot of time. And we find that that’s kind of our niche in these complicated projects that aren’t just in our model of a corporate community that you can buy the land, put up the property, lease it, move on to the next thing. Our process takes a long time because we want to get it right. So we might buy a parcel of land or have a building that we’re going to redevelop and buy that effort of investing in the community. It spills over. And so we end up expanding the project. I mean, North Hills, as you visited is a prime example. It was an old, dilapidated, declining mall. And John Kane bought it and then over time about other parcels of land around it. So we have totally revamped and changed the landscape of this area of Raleigh through the vertically integrated development that we’ve done. We also aren’t trying to expand up and down the East Coast, for example, we are committed to the Raleigh Durham, the triangle area, because there’s so much going on here and we’re involved in the community that it makes sense that we stay in this area. Some companies would be trying to go up and down the East Coast, for example. And we find there’s so much to do here and we do it really well and the people know us that it makes sense. And that’s that’s our strategy. Don [00:05:27] Tell me why employee engagement is so important to you both as a director of talent at Kane, but but also across the board, because I have seen a lot of very sincere, authentic interest from the senior leaders of the organization. Why is employee engagement important to you? Betsy Reade Creech [00:05:42] Well, you just hit on it there in your comment that the senior leadership team making the managers, the leaders are genuinely committed to providing a healthy and a positive work environment. It comes naturally to us to want to do that. And we really and truly want people to look forward to coming to work. And we want to make sure we’re doing what we can to provide an environment where they can do their best work. We know that our success depends on our ability to do that with a great team of people. And it’s a tight labor market. We all know that. So even more so, we need to be focused on engagement. We don’t want to lose our people to competition. From the engagement standpoint, it came is a very values based company and it all starts with character. We hire first for character, next viability and last for experience. So in order to do that, you know, a lot lot of places I’ve worked before. You had to hire people that had five to seven years of experience doing blank. C++ coding or something. You know, I’m not looking for people with necessarily with experience doing what we do. We have a character we can train as anybody to do the work we do. But it’s really about trying to find that good fit. That engagement process is very important to us. Don [00:07:09] So you’ve been with E3 Solutions for a couple of years now. And when I go to visit your operation and see your employees, you have a very young employee base, certainly millennials, 38 younger and even some Gen Z 23 and younger. You’re hiring for character. You’re hiring for people that are exceptional. That also creates some pressure because they have very high aspirations. How are you coping with this, this aspirational nature of just, you know, A and B players in this younger age range? Betsy Reade Creech [00:07:43] One of the things we’re spending some time and effort on is really equipping the managers and leaders to recognize the need for providing that recognition, validation, feedback. People are different based on, you know, whether they’re baby boomers and millennials and so forth. And so if our leaders can recognize that and really spend time getting to know their people, they’re better able to do that and not just treating everybody the same. I mean, we all want to be consistent and fair and all those things. But we need to recognize that people are different and they want to be treated differently and they’re motivated by different things. So it is. And you said, quote, That’s a strong word. It’s it’s a challenge for sure. And we focus on trying to get better at what we’re doing. That’s you know, that’s one of our values as well as just, make the right decisions and focus on excellence and just keep getting better. So, again, it’s a challenge, but we are trying to address that. You know, another part that’s a challenge it came to is we have people that you know and not unlike other companies, I’m sure. But, you know, we have people that are working on these really difficult, lengthy projects at a very sophisticated level. You know, they take years to complete. So we’ve got those folks then we have people that are managing these beautiful properties that we’re building and leasing and we have the people that take care of them. And those are the folks that are public safety officers. They’re our custodial technicians. And one thing about Kane is people who work here and we see this in our results; people who work here know how what they do really fits in with the overall mission of the company. So whether you’re designing that building, working with architects and so forth, or helping keep it attractive and safe and pretty, we know why we’re here. And so when people are aligned with the mission, it makes it easier for them to say, I need to make sure I’m picking up that trash when we all pick up cigarette butts and trash as we’re crossing the property. John Kane doesn’t. Mike Smith doesn’t. You can find just about anybody who works here willing to do that. So that’s just another another thing that’s really important to us that we find the most helpful. Don [00:10:04] Well, one of the reasons I’m talking to you that seems because in the first year you measured, you had very high engagement scores for companies in their first year measuring. And we’ve just finished measuring you again and your numbers are growing and getting even better across the board. And it’s remarkable, really, because not all companies can achieve that level of growth and improvement. Clearly, what you’re doing is is working. There are, however, in your organization, as in all of them, there are some employees that are disengaged no matter how hard we seem to try. And they can be very, very challenging. In your experience, why are disengaged employees so challenging to an organization and why do we need to be focused on them? Betsy Reade Creech [00:10:47] Well, one thing that comes to mind in terms of what they’re challenging is that they truly have and we’ve seen the potential negative impact they have on our
23 minutes | a year ago
50. Adult Attachment Theory at Work with Special Guest Dr. Kathryn Rheem
Today’s show is about Adult Attachment Theory at Work with Special Guest Dr. Kathryn Rheem. Listen to the show on iTunes, Spotify, Stitcher, and Google Play. Dr. Kathryn Rheem [00:00:01] Attachment theory is amazing science that helps us understand how to be better in all sorts of relationships. Emotion is what drives humans to learn to be present and make connection with another or not. And that’s why you can’t talk about attachment without talking about the important role of emotion, and without teaching managers and leaders to learn how to make space for their team’s humanity, or human emotion.  Don [00:00:29] My name is Don Rheem, CEO of E3 Solutions and author of the book “Thrive by Design: The Neuroscience That Drives High-Performance Cultures.” I speak across North America on the neuroscience of engagement, and I’m passionate about helping leaders at every level create engaging workplace environments where employees feel safe, recognized, and validated. Employees who feel safe are happier, healthier, and more productive. Each week, my team and I take on topics impacting managers, and we offer solutions to your biggest workplace challenges. And you’re listening to Thrive by Design, a podcast created by E3 Solutions to give managers, CEOs, and leaders tips, strategies, and tools needed to create an engaged culture at work.  Don [00:01:17] Welcome. I’m your host, Don Rheem, CEO of E3 Solutions. Today, I’m delighted to welcome my wife, Dr. Kathryn Rheem, an expert on adult attachment theory, a board member of the International Center for Emotionally Focused Therapy, and director of the Washington Baltimore Center for Emotionally Focused Therapy, a role she has held for over 10 years. Dr. Rheem is a certified, emotionally focused therapy trainer, supervisor, and therapist and has trained hundreds of mental health clinicians on EFT nationally and internationally. Dr. Rheem is here to talk with us about how adult attachment theory affects the workplace environment and what it means for engagement. And by the way, this is our 50th podcast. And so, I want to welcome Dr. Rheem, Kathryn, and thank you for being here today.  Dr. Kathryn Rheem [00:02:15] Thank you for having me. It’s great to be here.  Don [00:02:17] Let’s dive right in. For our listeners that are new to the term adult attachment theory, where does this term come from and what does it mean?  Dr. Kathryn Rheem [00:02:25] The attachment theory was originated by a British doctor after the wars when he noticed that women and children were dying in droves, as he said, as a result of not poor nutrition, not an unclean environment, but actually as a result of loneliness. That just when they thought their loved one was going to come home from war, or the war left children orphaned. They had a caregiver in the orphanage providing care, and providing food and clean clothes.  Dr. Kathryn Rheem [00:02:58] And Dr. Bowlby didn’t understand why these people were still dying. An early death came to be so predictable that when a child was brought into the orphanage, when they did the entry paperwork for the orphanage, they often did the death certificate. It became that predictable.  Dr. Kathryn Rheem [00:03:12] And he didn’t understand why what was happening to this nervous system of a child or even a war widow that made death so predictable. And what his science revealed is that connection with a loved one is a survival imperative, cradle to grave, regardless of rank, greater status, regardless of your stature in life, regardless of your amazing education and wealth. Dr. Kathryn Rheem [00:03:38] You all, we all, need someone to have our back, especially for our moments of distress, especially for the moments when we’re overworked and overwhelmed, perhaps vulnerable for one reason or another. But humans, just because we age and mature chronologically, it doesn’t mean we age out of the need for connection.  Dr. Kathryn Rheem [00:04:00] And because it’s the same operating system called the human nervous system, and we humans only have one for better, for worse. And at home, our attachment needs, fears, and longings come alive regularly. But, in the workplace, it’s my perspective that leaders and managers haven’t known what to do with the humanity that is, of course, embedded in their staff and in their organizations and in their teams. What do we do with our employees’ humanity? Employees at work will have not great moments, and that’s when it’s imperative that leaders learn how to manage emotion and understand emotion, which is why we’re talking about attachment theory today, because emotion is the driver of attachment-oriented behaviors.  Don [00:04:47] So, we have this underlying science now of adult attachment or attachment theory. And then the work that you do with couples and families is based, again, on this emotionally focused therapy, which is based on adult attachment. So, bridge for us the work of Dr. John Bowlby in discovering attachment theory and into what, I believe, is a practical approach to take the science and then to apply it, if you will, with people and families in couple relationships. What does that bridge look like?  Dr. Kathryn Rheem [00:05:19] Yeah, it’s a great question. So, the bridge was made more obvious in a 1986 study, I believe. Phil Shaver and Cindy Hazan put an ad in the Rocky Mountain News, a Denver-based newspaper, which extended Bowlby’s attachment theory that, so far to that point, had only been studied between caregivers and children.  Dr. Kathryn Rheem [00:05:39] But Hazan and Shaver’s survey that was in the paper that just the regular person responded to helped us understand that attachment applies in adults, that this is where social psychologists first started getting that we don’t outgrow our needs for attachment. And that’s simply because you’re human. You have attachment needs, and our culture is still understanding the ramifications of what it means to be a thriving human, both at home, of course, which is where my practice of emotionally focused therapy is mostly applied in terms of relationships that are distressed, and then, of course, as we all at E3 are the experts in, in the workplace.  Don [00:06:20] So, the role of EFT, though, specifically, it’s based on adult attachment or attachment theory. But, what is EFT, what is ICEFT, this international center? Tell me a little bit more about how you as a mental health clinician have been able to take attachment theory and apply it.  Dr. Kathryn Rheem [00:06:41] EFT, emotionally focused therapy, was founded by Dr. Sue Johnson. And Sue is the originator of this empirically validated process, the most effective form of couples therapy that’s now been extended into family therapy and individual therapy. So, Dr. Johnson took Bowlby’s theory and built a process by watching her couples and families in distress and then analyzing these distressed relationships through the lens of attachment theory. Does attachment apply in peer relationships? Does attachment apply with adults? And very clearly and emphatically, yes, it does. And so, also in the mid ’80s, when social psychologists were wondering about the extension of attachment theory into adult romantic relationships, here was Sue working with distressed couples, distressed romantic relationships, and was using attachment theory as a foundation of her systemic therapy to help people understand their distress and then help them have an experience of working with their distress in a different way that leads to a better connection with the one who matters most.  Don [00:07:53] So, your role here. So you’re a close colleague of Sue. She’s been a mentor and a guide for you. And you’re actually a trainer in EFT, and you do this all over the world. So, someone might say, “Hey, this is great. This is an important development for couples and families. And that’s all wonderful. But, hey, we’re talking about work now. This is the workplace. We need to leave that emotional baggage and issues at home. That needs to be resolved there. Work is work. And when we get there, we need to understand our role as workers and to get the job done. What’s wrong with that perspective?  Dr. Kathryn Rheem [00:08:26] Yeah, I’m smiling because if only it could be that way, that would make the workplace a lot more efficient. It’s quite inconvenient to be working with humans who have feelings, right? Whether you’re in the office or in the frozen food aisle, emotion is inconvenient, but emotion is what drives behavior.  Dr. Kathryn Rheem [00:08:43] And why do emotions come out strong? Why do we humans have emotion to protest from an attachment perspective? We use our emotions to protest when our attachment needs haven’t been met. And at home, it’s obviously a very direct line to your unmet attachment needs and your love relationships. In the workplace, the line is less direct, but it’s still there and it’s still really important. We’re not asking managers to meet their employees’ attachment needs, but we are asking managers to pay attention to the environmental factors that help an employee’s brain thrive. And those are the same environmental factors, those are the precursors, that we all need much more of at home. But, in the workplace where humans spend the majority of their time, we need leaders and managers to know how to pay attention to human emotion.  Don [00:09:39] The part of the brain that processes emotion, that generates and regulates emotion, is it even aware or is it cognizant of whether it’s at home o
22 minutes | a year ago
49. Solve Problems and Negotiate, Getting What You Want While Your Customers Get What They Need with Special Guest, Andrew Sykes
Today’s show is about Solve Problems and Negotiate, Getting What You Want While Your Customers Get What They Need with Special Guest, Andrew Sykes, CEO & Founder of Habits at Work. Listen to the show on iTunes, Spotify, Stitcher, and Google Play. Andrew [00:00:01] To sell and to lead essentially means similar things: To help others get what they need, to solve their problems, while you get what you want. If all salespeople and leaders did just this, imagine what would be possible for our customers, for our employees, and our businesses – everyone enjoying a win-win relationship, accelerating our business and our customers’ success. Don [00:00:28] My name is Don Rheem, CEO of E3 Solutions, and author of the book “Thrive by Design: The Neuroscience That Drives High-Performance Cultures.” I speak across North America on the neuroscience of engagement, and I’m passionate about helping leaders at every level create engaging workplace environments where employees feel safe, recognized, and validated. Employees who feel safe are happier, healthier, and more productive. Each week, my team and I take on topics impacting managers, and we offer solutions to your biggest workplace challenges. And you’re listening to Thrive by Design, a podcast created by E3 Solutions to give managers, CEOs, and leaders the tips, strategies, and tools needed to create an engaged culture at work. Don [00:01:16] Welcome. I’m your host, Don Rheem, CEO of E3 Solutions. We are thrilled to welcome back Andrew Sykes, an expert on leadership, organizational performance, and business development, to conclude his four-part series on high-performing habits at work. Andrew is the CEO of Habits at Work, a Chicago-based firm that helps people create and master high-impact work habits, and spent years researching workplace habits that make business performances thrive. Don [00:01:49] Today, Andrew will wrap up his Habits at Work series and speak about how to solve problems and negotiate, so that you get what you want while customers get what they need. Welcome back, Andrew. Great to hear your voice again. Andrew [00:02:02] Always my pleasure, Don. Don [00:02:03] Andrew, for the benefit of our listeners who might be new to your work or just joining us, can you briefly recap the 11 habits? And then we’ll dive into today’s focus, which will cover the habits of how to solve problems and negotiate. What are the 11 and why 11? Andrew [00:02:21] Don, we’ve spent now 15 years looking at the behaviors and actions that leaders, managers, and sellers can take, and researching which habits make the biggest difference to the relationships we have with people, the business outcomes we get for our companies, and our own personal effectiveness. And we found that there are a small set of habits that, if you practice them, allow you to show up as a magnetic human being who’s highly effective. And we’ve spoken about many of them on our previous conversations. Andrew [00:02:54] The first habit is asking for, receiving, and using feedback. We call it the habit of getting good at getting great at anything. It’s a foundational habit. Andrew [00:03:04] Other habits include listening empathically because we fall in love with people who listen with their hearts. Asking the right questions is another great habit. So is planning and prioritizing to make sure we do the right things in the right order. We’ve all experienced ineffective or boring meetings, so the habit of running effective meetings is a very powerful one in business. Andrew [00:03:30] We’ve also spoken about the habit of self-care. We call it the 11th habit because many people and companies leave it until it’s too late or until the 11th hour. But, looking after your own health, happiness, and security allows you to show up and be powerful and in performance in everything that you do at work. Andrew [00:03:50] Last week, we spoke about three habits that create trusted advisor status: the habit of telling stories, the habit of presenting ideas, and the habit of building trust. And today, we’ve got to share with you two more habits. Don [00:04:04] Well, thank you, Andrew. And those last two habits, these high-performing habits at work, focus on how to solve problems and how to negotiate. Now, why are learning these two habits critical for leaders and managers? And is the order of which these habits appear of any particular significance? This is our last episode in the series. Does this signify that these last habits are particularly important or not as important? What is the role of their order? Andrew [00:04:31] OK, well, let’s first address the order, and the answer is the order doesn’t usually matter. What matters is that you’re practicing the right habit in the right moment. And these last two are not the most important, although all 11 are important. As an example, it does though sometimes make sense to ask questions first before you listen empathically. But generally, what we are asking leaders to do is to choose the right habit at the right moment to get the right outcome. Andrew [00:05:02] And why are these last two habits important? Well, leaders are, by definition, tasked with bringing about a new future for their companies and their customers. And that means that they have to be good at solving problems. And because leaders have to deal with so many competing priorities and requests from employees and from customers, they are always negotiating. This is something they should learn to do well, so that they can get what they want while others get what they need, and enjoy the process, and look forward to the next negotiation. Don [00:05:42] And we work with this as well, Andrew. This is such an important point in our work in our boot camp for managers related to employee engagement. We ask them to come alongside the employee when there is a problem, not to necessarily just admonish them, tell them they made a mistake, but even to approach it, solve the problem through curiosity. What do you think we could do that would change the outcome if we were going to do this again? What should we do differently to make it an open question as opposed to simply saying, Wow, Andrew, you made a mistake. The project was a train wreck. I don’t know what we’re going to do now, but we’re going to have to solve this problem. The solving problems through a positive frame and a frame of curiosity is a huge win for a manager. Andrew [00:06:23] I couldn’t agree more. It points to what we often call the expert track. The longer you’ve been doing something, the more likely you are to think that this problem today should be solved in the same way that we solved a similar problem yesterday. But the world is changing so quickly that it’s no longer true that what worked to get you here will work to get you to the next place. And so curiosity is a perfect mindset for the habit of solving problems. Don [00:06:54] Yes, I remember now, Andrew, in a previous episode. It was such an interesting notion that experience can be a detriment to a manager, to an employee, because it gets us locked into a track where we think we know the right thing to do. And that’s a case where experience actually can become a negative. Andrew [00:07:10] Especially, Don, when we have that kind of automatic experience where we’re just focused on the outcome and not on the process of how we do things. We have the saying, which is: Automatic experience is the enemy of mastery, whereas deliberate practice or intentional practice with feedback from a coach is the genesis of genius. Andrew [00:07:34] And it’s never more true than in the area of negotiations, our second habit for today. And in our work at Habits at Work and my work at the Kellogg School of Management, we estimate that even experienced leaders leave at least 10 percent of value on the table whenever they negotiate. And if you think about some businesses, that can add up to millions, or in some cases, billions of dollars of lost revenue or profit margin each and every year for exactly this reason you point to. We get so accustomed to doing these things in the same way, that we don’t see the newness of a particular problem or negotiating opportunity. Don [00:08:12] Well, let’s dive in. What is the opportunity around how to tackle problem-solving in a way that is different from what managers and leaders are typically doing? Andrew [00:08:22] There are so many approaches to solving problems, Don, but I think the gist of this habit is not solving problems, period, but solving them in a new way as judged by or from the point of view of the customer. Andrew [00:08:36] And I’ll give you an example of that. Like when I rent a car, you know, I imagine: What problem is the car rental company solving for me? Well, the obvious answer is helping me get around in a new city where I don’t have a car. But actually, from my point of view, there are many related problems that I have. One is finding my way around a new city. The second is, and it’s an internal frustration for me, getting the car from the rental agency quickly and without hassle, and being able to return it without having to fill it up with gas at a gas station that I don’t know where it is, or being charged a fortune for that privilege. Andrew [00:09:13] In this case, I would like the car rental company to solve all of my set of problems related to being in a new city and renting and returning a car. And if they looked at the problem from my point of view and asked, How could we solve it differently from this customer’s point of view? they could do that by considering, for example, what I’m doing right before I get in the car, what I’ll do right afterwards, and solving not only my functional needs, but my emotional needs as
22 minutes | a year ago
48. How to Become a Trusted Advisor, with Special Guest Andrew Sykes
Today’s show is about How to Become a Trusted Advisor with Special Guest, Andrew Sykes, CEO & Founder of Habits at Work. Listen to the show on iTunes, Spotify, Stitcher, and Google Play. Andrew [00:00:01] Trust is not only given but something that can be built and reinforced through all deliberate actions over time. Becoming a trusted advisor is a habit, not an accident. Being a trusted advisor is the license we need to help employees and customers solve their problems with our input. It’s the price you pay to be at the table and in the conversation. Don [00:00:28] My name is Don Rheem, CEO of E3 Solutions, and author of the book “Thrive By Design: The Neuroscience That Drives High-Performance Cultures.” I speak across North America on the neuroscience of engagement, and I’m passionate about helping leaders at every level create engaging workplace environments where employees feel safe, recognized, and validated. Employees who feel safe, are happier, healthier, and more productive. Each week, my team and I take on topics impacting managers, and we offer solutions to your biggest workplace challenges. And you’re listening to Thrive By Design, a podcast created by E3 Solutions to give managers, CEOs, and leaders tips, strategies, and tools needed to create an engaged culture. Don [00:01:19] Welcome. I’m your host Don Rheem, CEO of E3 Solutions. We are thrilled to welcome back Andrew Sykes, an expert on leadership, organizational performance, and business development, to help us finish off his four-part series on high-performing habits at work. For listeners that missed those episodes, be sure to go back and tune into episodes 39 and 40. Andrew is the CEO of Habits at Work, a Chicago-based firm that helps people create and master high-impact work habits and has spent years researching workplace habits that make business performances thrive. Today and next week Andrew will conclude his Habits at Work series and speak about not only how to become a trusted advisor but how to solve problems and negotiate, so that you can get what you want while customers get what they need. Welcome, Andrew, and it’s great to have you back on the show. Andrew [00:02:14] Don, it’s my pleasure. I always love our conversations. Thank you for having me. Don [00:02:18] Oh, it’s fun too. And this notion of creating better habits is probably essential at what we’re doing at E3 Solutions as well because we’re essentially asking managers not to do it the way you used to do it, but to create these new habits, so that you become more predictable and consistent in applying new skills. So, this series is particularly interesting to me, too. Andrew, in the last two episodes, you spoke to our listeners about the three habits around how to become a magnetic leader and also how to help leaders and managers really prepare to perform at their highest levels in the workplace. Both of those topics that help improve employee engagement significantly. Now today, we’re going to focus on how to become a trusted advisor. After this episode, our listeners will learn three habits to embrace to become a trusted advisor and why these habits are critical for leaders and managers in driving employee engagement. So, let’s get started. Andrew, define what a trusted advisor really is, and what it means, and how it impacts workplace engagement. Andrew [00:03:23] Don, in short, a trusted advisor is someone who willingly and actually is consulted before you take action or decide on what action you will take. And if you are in that position of being a trusted advisor, either for a customer or for your employee, or as a salesperson and a leader, it’s really a high honor and takes a lot to achieve that. And what you can expect as a result is to have a seat at the table, so you’re included in conversations right from the beginning of the process. Don [00:03:54] Yeah. And we think of these collaborative leaders as just being much more effective because then the things that they decide, the decisions they make don’t feel like they’re out of the blue, or they don’t blindside people. But, tell me how and why is it particularly important as a leader and a manager to work toward establishing themselves as a trusted advisor. How does this help the company or the organization? Andrew [00:04:19] Well, Don, we know that one of the strong things that motivates employees is their perceived autonomy, and they don’t like being micromanaged, and because micromanaging people is demotivating for them. What you’d rather have as a leader is a situation where people come to you if and only if they need your input on something that’s both efficient for you and for your time, and it leaves them with a feeling that they’re trusted and they have the autonomy to act on their own. So, by preserving their autonomy – a key motivation driver – while ensuring your expertise and leadership is called on when needed, that trusted advisor status allows the business to progress with speed and efficiency. Don [00:05:06] And we see this as well when we go into organizations, Andrew. When we use our 28-question online survey on engagement, sometimes the first thing we see: Is this a manager who does things with employees or to employees? And the manager that does things to employees – top down, hierarchical, rarely consultative – those work groups are rarely as engaged as those with a manager who does things with employees. And I think you’ve captured it here too – that manager that can do it with employees does become more trusted and their direct reports are more likely to go to them to both provide input and to seek input. Andrew [00:05:44] Yeah. I love that distinction between doing it with or doing it to. And you know, as a leader, or in my case, as a leader who is also a salesperson, I know I’ve reached this point of being a trusted advisor. When I get a particular type of call like I did last month from a customer, they call to say, “Andrew we’re thinking about developing a new leadership development program, and I’d like to get your input before we decide if and how we should do this.” And that kind of call for me is a real privilege to receive and a strong signal that over time we’ve provided enough trustable advice that this customer thought to call us first before they made any decisions, in fact, while they were just thinking about possibly doing or creating a program. Don [00:06:35] Yeah. What their call is they’re hoping to not just to be sold to, but they want you to help guide them. And it may be that what you guide them toward or what they decide to do is to use your services. But first and foremost, they want to run some ideas past you because they see you as an expert and one who they can trust and rely on. That is an honor. Yeah. Let’s dive in. How does one become a trusted advisor? Andrew [00:06:58] Well, Don, in previous episodes, we’ve talked about the importance of some habits like asking questions, listening empathically, and asking for feedback to create you as a magnetic leader or salesperson or manager. And that’s a great place to start, but once you have people drawn to you, who want to be in your presence, the question is: What do you do with that attention? And that’s where the habits of being a trusted advisor come in. Trusted advisors excel in three more habits: the habit of telling stories, of presenting ideas, and of building trust. Don [00:07:36] So, can we break each one of these down for our listeners and just take a little bit of a deeper dive in each one. Andrew [00:07:42] Sure. And telling stories is the safest way to share facts and figures and advice and direction without feeling threatening or argumentative to the person to whom you’re speaking. Facts and figures on their own often only harden people’s pre-existing opinions because they often see them as threats to what they already believe. But stories change minds. And if you’re familiar with that old Trojan Horse legend, I like to think of stories as if they are a Trojan horse that carry new ideas from one brain to another. More importantly, stories carry emotion, and human beings, we know, make all decisions emotionally. Despite the fact that, when we look back on a decision we’ve made, we tell ourselves we made it rationally by looking at pros and cons in retrospect in the moment, it’s our emotions that drive decisions. So, stories are like feedback a gift to other people, providing them with the emotion they need to make the right decision. The clarity and the context that’s provided by the story, so that they can make the right decision and have the motivation to act on those decisions now. In a sense, it is the guiding pathway for action, where facts and figures seldom get that job done. Don [00:09:06] Yeah. I’m so glad to hear you say that, and even some of the literature on difficult conversations – they all focus, it seems that they start with the facts. But, that’s just not my experience and that’s not what the science says where people make decisions either. And one other thing, Andrew, I think you’ll find interesting in some of the really fascinating brain mapping work that’s going on. There is apparently a group a pocket of neurons that only seem to activate, and they light up like a Christmas tree, but only in one instance – when they’re hearing stories. So, there’s even a part of the brain that has a unique attribute to dive in when that happens. I just I couldn’t agree with you more about the power of stories. Andrew [00:09:45] It reminds me, you know, from when we are three years old until we’re 103. All we ever want to do is listen to stories. So, whether
20 minutes | a year ago
47. Employee Engagement with Special Guest, Dick Smith, the Chicago Vistage Chair
Today’s show is about Employee Engagement with Special Guest, Dick Smith, the Chicago Vistage Chair. Listen to the show on iTunes, Spotify, Stitcher, and Google Play. Dick [00:00:01] Hiring practices: finding, hiring, and keeping good talent has everything to do with how engaged their employees are. It becomes an attraction magnet when employees are engaged in a company – they’ll tell their friends what a great place it is, how they’re recognized for their contributions. And so, as a consequence, they have a pipeline of new possible hires. Don [00:00:23] My name is Don Rheem, CEO of E3 Solutions, and author of the book “Thrive By Design: The Neuroscience That Drives High-Performance Cultures.” I speak across North America on the neuroscience of engagement, and I’m passionate about helping leaders at every level create engaging workplace environments where employees feel safe, recognized, and validated. Employees who feel safe are happier, healthier, and more productive. Each week, my team and I take on topics impacting managers, and we offer solutions to your biggest workplace challenges. And you’re listening to Thrive By Design, a podcast created by E3 Solutions to give managers, CEOs, and leaders tips, strategies, and tools needed to create an engaged culture at work. Don [00:01:14] Welcome, I’m your host Don Rheem, CEO of E3 Solutions. Over the past several weeks, we’ve launched a special guest series where we talk with subject matter experts one on one about critical workplace challenges. Our guest this week is Dick Smith. Dick leads several groups of CEOs who meet monthly to tackle tough business issues as a part of Vistage International, a membership organization for CEOs. In his role, he provides executive coaching to his Vistage-member CEOs. And he’s been doing that for over 10 years as a Vistage chair. Welcome, Dick, and thank you for taking the time to be here with us. Dick [00:01:57] It’s my pleasure, Don. It’s great to be with you today. Don [00:02:01] I know you’re a busy guy. I want our listeners to understand a little bit about what you do. You’re a Vistage chair. So, you’re a chair of some groups under this organization called Vistage. Can you tell us a little bit about what Vistage is, and what your role is as a chairperson of groups in Vistage? Dick [00:02:18] Sure. Well, thanks for asking. Well, first of all, Vistage is the oldest and largest company dealing with CEO-level execs and their senior leadership team. We say that we’re around to help our leaders make better decisions, become better leaders, and get better results. We have 22,000 members worldwide in 16 countries. As you mentioned, I run as a facilitator and coach, three different Vistage groups, on average 13 to 15 members in each. And we meet once a month, for a full day, twelve times a year, and we sit around and help one another identify challenges, decisions, opportunities that they have. So, we help one another decide how to better run our businesses a little bit better in this peer advisory concept that we have. Don [00:03:10] So, Dick, recently I spoke to your three groups, and I was talking about employee engagement. And, first of all, I’m always impressed when a Vistage chair believes that employee engagement is an important topic for their members. Help me understand where employee engagement fits in for your members, again CEOs of their own companies. Why this issue so important? Dick [00:03:32] Well, in my candid opinion – it’s one man’s opinion – but I think shared now by many. We know that when our employees are engaged at a high level, they perform at probably two to three times the employee that’s not engaged, if you will, to any degree. And so, that means we can do things better, doing them faster, doing them cheaper. And that’s always a goal for our members. And I feel that employee engagement covers so many things across the board as it relates to performance. It’s in everything that we deal with from an issue standpoint month by month. Don [00:04:06] So, when I was there and talking to your groups on these three consecutive days, I did talk a lot about neuroscience and the science behind what drives people when they’re at work, what drives their behavior. How did that land on people in, you know, reflecting on it afterward? What kinds of things did you hear, how were members reacting to this science-based approach? Dick [00:04:23] Well, great question, and going back to – I actually heard you speak, Don, back in 2011. I had you speak to my Vistage groups back then, and I was very impressed back then with the neuroscience of employee engagement and your assessment tools. And then, I think it was August or September 2017 when I read under our Vistage chair network that you came out with a book called “Thrive by Design.” I immediately bought the book, read it, and said, “Oh my gosh, this is exactly what my members need.” I went ahead and bought 50 copies for their holiday present and gave it to them Christmas time in 2017, and proceed to tell them that we’re going to go through this book every quarter. We are going to read four chapters and then review, and see what it means, how it resonates with you folks. Dick [00:05:14] They actually fell in love with the process, learned a lot in reading the books, and as you know, I brought you back in February this year, to really reconfirm, not only with my members, but they invited some of their senior-level staff. And I got to tell you that I was a member myself for 13 years, chairing now for over 10 years, and out of all the speakers I’ve ever heard, I think your program won, is the most impactful, and you are probably, if not the highest-rated speaker I’ve ever had in front of my group, you’re right near the top. So, what they took away from it, many many things. Dick [00:05:51] Things that they’re still using today. I met with a member today and asked that question at breakfast this morning. I said, “Help me out, what did you take away from Don Rheem’s presentation?” And, basically a couple of comments: One, you’ve got to do this – every time there’s a bad thing that happens with an employee, it takes five to correct that, so they’re trying to do more of that recognition five to one. They’re also talking about making sure that the employee feels safe, and making sure they understand what’s next in a lot of our conversations. You’d be amazed how often this comes up in my coaching sessions with members. When we talk about: Well, are you making that employee feel safe? Are you making that employee feel that they’re making a great contribution to the tribe, as you say? And, well anyway, so you know many, many members are using it. In fact, as you know, you’re coming back to Chicago. We talked about it back in February. You’re coming back to do two eight-hour workshops on May 29 and 30 here in Chicago. And many of my members have signed up to go back themselves, as well as bringing quite a number of their leadership team members to your workshop. Don [00:07:00] Yeah. And I’m looking forward to those two sessions, and it’s great to see that very high level of interest that was there. And you mentioned this issue of the importance of people feeling safe, and I do talk about it in the book, but for listeners that may not have read the book – the issue here is around the limbic system in the brain and the role of the limbic system in threat detection. And if employees don’t feel safe when they’re at work, and by safe, work is unpredictable, inconsistent, and not fair. They have a manager who’s not available, inaccessible, or is mercurial in how they treat and respect employees. The brain starts hijacking resources with the limbic system, starts hijacking resources from other parts of the brain, to deal with that perceived threat. And what that means in very practical terms is an employee’s IQ drops, their peripheral vision collapses, their ability to care and know what’s going on for other people around them goes in decline. Now, Dick, as a chair, part of the Vistage process is you sit down with these 13, 15 CEOs around a table, and you process issues. And a member brings up an issue they’re dealing with, then all the other CEOs come around, and support that member, and they work through the issue and try to create resolution. In all of these issues that you deal with, and you touched on this a little earlier in a comment, but where does employee engagement fit in that hierarchy of issues? Or, maybe another way to ask it is: For those issues that you deal with, how many of them really pivot around employees’ commitment and presence when they’re at work now? Dick [00:08:31] Great question. And I have the saying that goes: For every CEO, 80 percent of their problems walk through the employee entrance every day. So, almost every single issue we process has to do with employees in one way, shape, or form. Dick [00:08:50] We talk about compensation – certainly there is an area there that obviously you have to reward employees to make them not only feel safe, but provide growth – what’s next for them. Benefits, culture obviously has to do with employee engagement. Hiring practices: finding, hiring, and keeping good talent has everything to do with how engaged their employees are. It becomes an attraction magnet when employees are engaged in a company – they’ll tell their friends what a great place it is, how they’re recognized for their contributions. And so, as a consequence, they have a pipeline of new possible hires. Dick [00:09:28] So, as I say, 80 percent of your problems,
21 minutes | a year ago
46. Enneagram Part 4: “The Thinking Triad-Profile Types 5, 6, and 7”
Today’s show is about the Enneagram Part 4: “The Head Triad” Profile Types 5, 6, and 7 with Special Guest Chelsie Sargent. Listen to the show on iTunes, Spotify, Stitcher, and Google Play. Chelsie [00:00:01] The Enneagram, which is what I would call a personality assessment, has nine distinct profiles, or styles, as I like to call them. And gaining a really solid understanding of types 5, 6, and 7 is crucial for leaders in the workplace because these numbers, they bring groundedness, and they bring rational thinking to our teams. And as we all know, we need that in the workplace. Don [00:00:30] My name is Don Rheem, CEO of E3 Solutions and author of the book, “Thrive By Design: The Neuroscience That Drives High Performance Cultures.” Don [00:00:39] I speak across North America on the neuroscience of engagement, and I’m passionate about helping leaders at every level create engaging workplace environments where employees feel safe, recognized, and validated. Employees who feel safe are happier, healthier, and more productive. Don [00:00:57] Each week, my team and I take on topics impacting managers, and we offer solutions to your biggest workplace challenges. And, you’re listening to Thrive By Design, a podcast created by E3 Solutions to give managers, CEOs, and leaders tips, strategies, and tools needed to create an engaged culture at work. Don [00:01:21] Welcome. I’m your host Don Rheem, CEO of E3 Solutions. As our listeners know over the past few weeks, we’ve had the pleasure of talking with subject matter experts to bring more specific details to this role of being an effective leader. Returning from last week, via Skype, is our guest Chelsie Sargent, a licensed professional counselor and a certified specialist in the Enneagram, a 2000-year-old personality examination. Chelsie is here to wrap up our last session, the fourth session about the Enneagram, as we dive into these specific personality profile types that make up the assessment. Welcome back, Chelsie. And thanks for helping us wrap up this fascinating four-part series. And I’m really excited to get into this last of the three triads of the Enneagram. Chelsie [00:02:14] Hello, Don. It’s so good to be back. I’m excited to jump back in as well. Don [00:02:18] Chelsie, last week you spoke to our podcast listeners about that second set of the Enneagram profiles, or triads, as you referred to them – types 2, 3, and 4. And today we’re going to pick right up where we left off and move on to the third triad, that would be types 5, 6, and 7. So, tell us about these three personality types, and why are they called the “Thinking Triad.” Chelsie [00:02:44] Yeah. Types 5, 6, and 7 are our thinkers. They are going to bring rational thinking to the table in the workplace. And they are going to all do this in very different ways, but the way with which they see the world and the place that they start, specifically when they’re working through problems or conflicts is going to be with thinking or with their head. Don [00:03:10] So, Chelsie, before you dive into the first of these thinking types, I could imagine some listeners thinking, “Hey! I remember from the last podcast, and I thought I was a 3 because I’m really efficient, and I like getting my good work done, but I’m also a thinker.” So, the question to you is a little context here on these profile types. It’s not a specific narrow channel is it? Chelsie [00:03:36] 100 percent, it is not. One of the things to understand about the Enneagram is that you are going to be able to see a little bit of yourself in all the numbers. That’s one of the reasons it’s on a circle. Chelsie [00:03:46] So we are multi-dimensional people, human beings, and we have all sorts of different things that make us who we are. And so you are going to be able to find yourself in all the numbers. One of the big things to remember as you are learning about each number on the Enneagram, is your motives. And so, that is where only you can determine what that is, but your motives is what is the glaring indicator of what your number is. Don [00:04:17] So, your primary Enneagram type is going to indicate specifically what you’re primarily motivated by, but your expression, your expression as an individual, as a person, your personality if you will, could have little bits and pieces of all the numbers. Is that what you’re saying? Chelsie [00:04:35] Absolutely. Don [00:04:36] OK, that’s helpful to know because I can see some listeners seeing themselves already in multiple personality types of the Enneagram and just trying to figure that out. How does the Enneagram talk about those spillovers, if you will? Are there areas where, let’s say a person is a 5, could they have stronger expressions in one or two other personality types? How does the Enneagram talk about that? Chelsie [00:05:02] Yeah. And that’s, man how much time do we have? One of the things that we have to remember is, there’s a lot of things that I haven’t even gone over with the Enneagram. Don [00:05:11] Right. Chelsie [00:05:11] And so if you are a 5, there are personality types on the Enneagram that are influencing you that you’re actually connected to, so your wings, and your wings are the numbers on either side of you. Don [00:05:24] I see. Chelsie [00:05:24] So, for a 5, that would be a 3 or a 6. And those can add different flavors to your personality. Chelsie [00:05:32] So, one of the really cool things about the Enneagram, when you go to conferences, or when you go to trainings, is a lot of times the presenter will bring up all the 5s in the room. And, it’s fascinating because all of those 5s have the same motivation. They share the same number, and all of them manifest personality differently. Don [00:05:51] Yes. Chelsie [00:05:52] So, it’s just fascinating to watch five 5s sit up on each on a stage and each of them are different, although they do have these certain characteristics that are the same about them. Don [00:06:03] That, I think, is really helpful context to know. So, if someone was to take an Enneagram test to determine what their type is, I’m assuming that reporting then would show them what their wings are to use the term that you brought up? Chelsie [00:06:18] Yeah. So, once you discover your number, and when you sit with an assessment or a specialist in it, they will be able to tell you what numbers you are connected to. So, the Enneagram already has all of that mapped out for you. You don’t have to guess that, and you don’t have to figure that part out. The only thing that you have to figure out is what your number is. Don [00:06:39] Right. Chelsie [00:06:39] And so, even if you do take one of the personality assessments associated with the Enneagram, it’s still a good idea to sit down or to be taught by a specialist because then they can really help you hone in the finer qualities of what that number is and how that really does make up who you are. Don [00:06:56] OK. So, there’s, even within these nine personality types, there’s just wonderful individual expression that’s not locked into, like you said you are a 1, but how you look as a 1 is going to be very different perhaps than an accountant who’s a 1, or an engineer who’s the 1. You’re each going to have your own individual personality, but what motivates you, that clarity around structure and rules on a black and white world, and wanting to fix and solve things, is going to be a common motivator. Chelsie [00:07:27] Yes, that is spot on. Don [00:07:28] OK. Chelsie [00:07:28] And, then because of our personality, we’re going to go about those in different ways. Don [00:07:33] Yes. And certainly you, as a counselor and a therapist, are going to do that in a unique way. So let’s dive in to the 5s. Tell us about 5s. Chelsie [00:07:41] 5s are known as your Intellects. They are information gatherers, and they are focused on data and facts. Some of the stuff you have to remember when I’m talking about the Enneagram, I’m saying pretty blanket statements, and so not everyone is going to have this, but 5s traditionally are going to report that they are pretty high introverts. They really value alone time, and they need alone time to recharge. So, whereas 8s have the most energy on the Enneagram, 9s have the least energy on the Enneagram, 5s only start out with a certain amount of energy every day. And when that energy is gone it is gone. And so 5s, healthy 5s really have to know how to space out their energy. This is crucial for a leader to understand, because if a leader is a 5, when you are managing a team that requires a lot out of you. And so when you walk into the office every day, it is good for you to understand that you’re not going to have tons of energy to give to everyone. So, for you to be able to parcel that out to your team as needed throughout the day. Don [00:08:59] Let’s do this contrast of healthy and unhealthy aspects of a 5. What is a healthy 5 and what is an unhealthy 5? Chelsie [00:09:09] So, we’ll start with the unhealthy aspects of a 5. They’re going to be stingy with their time. They can withdraw. They can become cynical, and they can really turn inward because they again, really like being in their head and really like figuring things out on their own. They’re also really good compartmentalizers. So, they again, just can turn real inward and maybe not have as high value on working in a team. Healthy 5s, they can enjoy gathering data and mastering knowledge and helping bring their team into those areas. They, because they excel at information gathering, they can expand the parameters on what the team knows on topics and bring in a lot of information for the team, to there go ou
21 minutes | a year ago
45. Enneagram Part 3: “The Heart Triad” Profile Types 2, 3 and 4
Today’s show is about the Enneagram Part 3: “The Heart Triad” Profile Types 2, 3, and 4 with Special Guest, Chelsie Sargent. Listen to the show on iTunes, Spotify, Stitcher and Google Play. Chelsie [00:00:00] The Enneagram has nine distinct profiles and understanding the, “Heart Triad,” or as I like to say, types 2 3 and 4 is important because this is where the emotional and social intelligence gets brought in for the workplace. Don [00:00:19] My name is Don Rheem CEO of E3 Solutions and author of the book, “Thrive By Design: The Neuroscience That Drives High-Performance Cultures.” Don [00:00:27] I speak across North America on the neuroscience of engagement and I’m passionate about helping leaders at every level create engaging workplace environments where employees feel safe, recognized and valued. Employees who feel safe are happier, healthier and more productive. Don [00:00:46] Each week my team and I take on topics impacting managers and we offer solutions to your biggest workplace challenges. And, you’re listening to Thrive By Design, a podcast created by E3 Solutions to give managers CEOs and leaders the tips, strategies and tools needed to create an engaged culture at work. Don [00:01:10] Welcome. I’m your host Don Rheem, CEO of E3 Solutions. Don [00:01:15] As you know, as a regular listener, over the past few weeks we’ve been talking with subject matter experts one on one about critical workplace challenges. Don [00:01:25] Returning from the week before last is our special guest, Chelsie Sargent, a licensed professional counselor and a certified specialist in the Enneagram, a 2000-year-old personality examination. Don [00:01:38] Chelsie is joining us, via Skype, from Texas to continue the discussion around the Enneagram as we take a deeper dive into each of the nine personality profile types that make up the in-depth assessment. Don [00:01:51] Welcome back, Chelsie. It’s great to be with you again. Chelsie [00:01:54] It’s my pleasure Don. It’s great to be here. Don [00:01:56] Chelsie, in our first episode with you, you introduced our podcast listeners to the Enneagram. You talked about its origin and explained its true purpose and why a test like this serves as an important tool in the workplace. Don [00:02:10] In the next episode, episode 43, we really looked at the first set of profiles types—8,9 and 1, which you called the gut or anger triad, and why understanding this first set of numbers, personality types really matters in the workplace. Don [00:02:27] And, for those listeners just tuning in, I highly encourage you to go back and listen to these first 2 episodes to gain some framing and context around what we’ll be talking about today. Don [00:02:38] Let’s go ahead and pick up right where we left off with you and move on to the next set of profiles. This would be Enneagram profile types 2, 3 and 4. What are they and why are they grouped together and why are they referred to as the heart triad? Chelsie [00:02:52] Yes so the heart triad, 2, 3 and 4, these personality types are known to be social or emotionally minded individuals and they all express this or manifest this in different ways as they relate to one another. These numbers are known to show the most compassion and they’re also known to show the most emotion again in different ways. Don [00:03:18] These personality types, these people are working from the heart but they’re doing it in 3 distinct ways. So, let’s break each one of them down. Can you talk about the 2’s as leaders and how understanding this profile type could be helpful to leaders in the workplace? Chelsie [00:03:37] 2’s are what I call the “helpers.” Chelsie [00:03:40] They’re your leaders that are empathetic. They are people-oriented. They are sensitive to the needs of others and they have a lot of feelings. 2’s feel big. Chelsie [00:03:56] And, so when we’re talking about that heart triad or the feelings triad, 2’s are the people on the Enneagram where feelings oftentimes can run their decisions and run their actions. So they need to be very aware of this. Chelsie [00:04:13] They are charming. They are kind. They really want people to like them. So, if they do not understand this about themselves or are in the unhealthier levels of their number they can become people pleasers and they can actually let people walk all over them. Chelsie [00:04:31] So one of the things that I work with specifically for leaders with 2’s is understanding this about themselves and how they can be a little bit more directive, while also being kind and warm and compassionate because those are also things within their personality they’re really good. Don [00:04:47] In the last episode, you explain to us that they are healthy and unhealthy aspects of each personality type. Kind of recap or contrast, if you will, healthy versus unhealthy for a 2. Chelsie [00:04:59] Healthy 2’s are going to use their warmth and their empathy and their people skills to empower a team to be aware of the relationships with on a team. Chelsie [00:05:16] These people are very relational and when they are in the healthier parts of their 2, their team is going to have a healthy relationship among themselves. Chelsie [00:05:27] When a 2 is not healthy they are going to be really concerned about being liked and then they are going to do whatever they need to do to have the team like them instead of really coming from what the team needs. Chelsie [00:05:43] And, so it becomes them-focused instead of team-focused, if that makes sense. Don [00:05:49] Yes, it does. Don [00:05:51] Chelsie, if a manager has a 2 on their team what is the best way to support that team member? What is it that they need from a leader to be as successful as possible? Chelsie [00:06:02] Yeah, good question. Two’s are relational. And so, if you are a more technical person or a more logical person, if you have a 2 on your team it is good to get in touch with the relational sides of yourself and knowing that 2’s respond to warmth and they respond to relational interactions. Chelsie [00:06:24] So, maybe like a good example would be if you have a 2 on your team, when you walk up to their desk instead of just jumping into business and listing off everything you need from them or all the line items that you need them to perform, to walk up and say, hey, how was your weekend? Chelsie [00:06:40] Give them a couple minutes to kind of express that. Ask them some questions maybe about their family or about what they do and then jump into business. You’ve kind of met the needs of the relational part and the 2 is going to be more open to what you’re needing from them. Don [00:06:55] So, I’m going to jump back to the previous episode when we were talking about the 8, 9s and 1s being more structured and life is more black and white. You might not want to start the conversation with a 1 that way. Would that be accurate? Chelsie [00:07:11] Yeah, I think that would be an accurate thing to say with 1’s because they are detail-oriented and they like getting down to business. Walking up to a 1 and saying, hey, and then jumping right into work, that is probably going to be warm for them and it’s direct and they know where it’s going. Don [00:07:29] This is the part of the Enneagram that I like so much. It just brings out the rich tapestry, if you will, of how different people relate and are motivated, what resonates with them. And this is also a part of what we refer to as E3 Solutions is just the growing complexity for managers to be successful is to start to understand these different needs of individual employees and to be multivariate in the way that they interact with employees, in a way that is going to feel more attuned to the needs of the individual team members. Don [00:08:01] So that was the 2s take us into the 3s. Chelsie [00:08:03] Yes the 3s. Chelsie [00:08:06] One of the ways that I always like talking about 3s specifically when I’m talking to anyone in corporate is America is a 3. That is a great way to start framing what 3 characteristics are. Chelsie [00:08:19] They are the performer, they’re the achiever, so kind of think about the American dream. They like to create an image of this success that’s very important to them. And they do this through working hard. And they aim at doing the best job possible they can do. Chelsie [00:08:37] The 3 things that 3’s value are efficiency, effectiveness and quickness. They move fast and they want to get the job done as quickly and as effective as they can so they can get on to the next task. Don [00:08:54] I’ve heard that maybe this would be an example of an unhealthy side of a 3 that 3’s also can put work ahead of family. That is, that they really are focused on work and achievement. Is that accurate? Did I get that right? Chelsie [00:09:08] One hundred percent. Three’s can really be known as workaholics. And so, one of the big things that I work with 3s because they are so achievement and action-oriented, is how to practice self-care and how to have balance in their life. Chelsie [00:09:24] Because when 3s are pumping out results and they’re moving up on the corporate ladder or within their company or whatever they deem success as, that is where they get a lot of their self-esteem from. Chelsie [00:09:40] And so in other areas of their life it may not come across as results-oriented and so they can put way more energy into their work environment. Don [00:09:52] For them, pleasure or success or meaning is out of achievement getting things done, work-wise, as opposed to let’s say focusing on family. Is that accurate? Chelsie [00:10:03] Absolutely. So they are an interesting number in the sense that they are in the feelings triad but a lot of 3s
21 minutes | a year ago
44. Leader As Coach with Special Guest, Dr. Carylynn Larson
Today’s show is about Leader As Coach with Special Guest, Dr. Carylynn Larson. Listen to the show on iTunes, Spotify, Stitcher and Google Play. Carylynn [00:00:01] Being a leader coach means that, you as a leader, are using coaching as a primary approach to engaging with your people. Many leaders think they’re already doing this, but when they learn what coaching really looks like they realize the tape they were actually solving for their team members. Don [00:00:19] My name is Don Rheem CEO of E3 Solutions and author of the book, “Thrive By Design: The Neuroscience That Drives High-performance Cultures.” Don [00:00:28] I speak across North America on the neuroscience of engagement and I’m passionate about helping leaders at every level create engaging workplace environments where employees feel safe, recognized and validated. Don [00:00:41] Employees who feel safe are happier, healthier and more productive. Each week, my team and I take on topics impacting managers and we offer solutions to your biggest workplace challenges. And, you’re listening to Thrive By Design, a podcast created by E3 Solutions to give managers, CEOs and leaders the tips, strategies and tools needed to create an engaged culture at work. Don [00:01:10] Welcome. I’m your host Don Rheem CEO of E3 Solutions. Don [00:01:14] As our regular listeners know, over the past few weeks we’ve been talking with subject-matter experts one-on-one about critical workplace challenges. Don [00:01:23] Our guest this week is Dr. Carylynn Larson, a certified leadership coach, certified professional facilitator and organizational psychologist with roots in the academic study of leadership and team dynamics. Don [00:01:37] Dr. Larson is here with us today to talk about the role of leader as coach in the workplace. Welcome, Carylynn and thank you for taking the time to be here. Carylynn [00:01:46] My pleasure Don. Great to be here. Don [00:01:48] What does it mean to be a leader coach and why should managers and leaders care about this term in the workplace? Carylynn [00:01:55] Well, the most simple terms being a leader coach means that you, as a leader, are using coaching as a primary approach to engaging with your people. Carylynn [00:02:04] Many leaders think they’re already doing this but when they learn what coaching really looks like they realize that they were actually solving for their team members. Carylynn [00:02:13] So, a true leader coach resists this temptation, to give their answers and give advice, and instead they use a set of skills that use deep listening and they activate curiosity. Carylynn [00:02:25] They learn how to ask really powerful questions that make people think and they learn how to notice things and share these really astute observations that end up challenging their team members to think for themselves. Don [00:02:39] According to a study by Burson and Associates, organizations whose leaders very frequently make an effort to coach others have a 21% higher business results. Don [00:02:51] Why is that? Carylynn [00:02:53] Yeah. You know it’s really quite simple. Leaders in almost every business across every industry have just an incredible amount of responsibility. And, if you think about it, globalization and increased mobility in and out of companies and the rapid change of technology only exacerbate the complexity of leadership. Carylynn [00:03:15] And so, in order to execute on their objectives on their KPI, leaders really have to empower every single one of their employees to execute with minimal oversight, minimal day-to-day support. Carylynn [00:03:30] So, coaching unleashes this talent in a few ways. Carylynn [00:03:33] First, coaching provides a really, tangible way for leaders to show that they believe in the growth and the success of their people. And that builds trust. And as we know, trust is just a key accelerator of engagement and of creative capacity. Carylynn [00:03:47] And, also coaching keeps responsibility at the appropriate level. When a leader offers advice and people follow that advice, the leader is inadvertently assuming responsibility for the outcomes. And, if their idea doesn’t wor, where does the team go? They go right back to the leader. Carylynn [00:04:07] So, a great leader coach is going to ask great questions, share insights without solving for the team member. And, so a team member will walk away with a solution that they came up with and one that they feel really empowered to adjust or even scrap if they see it going sideways. Carylynn [00:04:25] And, then a final way that coaching boost business results is by reducing turnover. It’s very interesting, turnover is incredibly costly and we know that people don’t leave companies nearly so much as they leave bad bosses. Carylynn [00:04:39] And, people don’t want to be coached these days. They don’t want to be managed. They don’t want to be directed they don’t want to just be given the answers, they want to be coached. So leader coaches have much less turnover among their staff and when their people do want to move on they want to move on to another leader coach in that company. They’re not necessarily looking for a way out. Don [00:05:02] We’re seeing something interesting with the change in the gender dynamics with boomers retiring in very large numbers over the next five to 10 years. And what this means is that these millennials, much younger professionals in the workplace are going to be thrust into these leadership positions at a much younger age. Don [00:05:20] What you’re talking about here is, let’s get these, many of them boomers and even Gen X leaders, let’s get them coaching now to get this younger generation ready for these positions that they’re going to be taking at much younger ages. Carylynn [00:05:33] Yeah absolutely. Millennials, like I said, they don’t want to be told what to do. They don’t want people solving their problems but they love to be coached. They love to be challenged and so coaching is also just a great way to bridge this generational divide. Don [00:05:49] What opportunities should leaders leverage to coach their teams? Carylynn [00:05:53] I’m really glad you asked because spotting opportunities to coach is half the battle. Carylynn [00:05:58] Really great leader coaches they don’t wait for somebody to come and ask for coaching. They don’t have team members who say, hey, I would love some coaching on this. That’s just incredibly rare. Carylynn [00:06:08] And so, they have to spot coaching opportunities in everyday work. Carylynn [00:06:13] For example, a really great opportunity to coach is when a team member asks you for advice. So our tendency is to give them our advice. That’s what they’re asking for. But a great leader coach is going to invite them into a conversation instead. Carylynn [00:06:28] So they might say, great question, can we talk through it. Or, they might say, hey what are your options? What have you already thought of or considered? They might say something like, well, let’s talk. Where are you getting stuck? Don [00:06:40] Help me understand. You’ve coached a lot of leaders in your career all over the world, why is it so difficult for some leaders to hold back from just giving the answers then to actually coach and to help the other person come up with the answer themselves? Is it time pressure? Is it they just think they’re they’re just so great they should be doing it? Don [00:07:02] What are, sort of, roadblocks for leaders and managers doing this coaching? Carylynn [00:07:08] You know there are easy answers to that and there are harder answers to that. Carylynn [00:07:13] I think the time pressure is actually an excuse. It’s a red herring. We all feel like we’re in a time crunch but in fact, we’re creating more work for ourselves when we’re always answering people’s questions. Carylynn [00:07:25] And so, the deeper answer is that many, many leaders got promoted because they were great at solving problems. It’s what has always made them successful and so it’s where they find their sense of value. Carylynn [00:07:38] So, why would you not answer a question if it’s being asked. And so, stepping into this role of a leader coach, it requires a change in your value system that requires a change in your mindset. Carylynn [00:07:50] You have to start to value seeing, as we say, for the light come on in someone else’s eyes. Seeing them come up with a solution that is genuinely their own. Not one that you lead them to but one that they really own. You have to value that more than you value the spike in ego that you get from answering the question. Don [00:08:11] We have a process in the consulting that we do for clients we call label and redirect. And, it’s a way for a leader to take for example a question and just label it. I understand your concern but then redirect. What do you think we can do? How do you think we should handle this? Don [00:08:31] So, take the input. Say, I really appreciate the question and now redirect. That’s the label. I really appreciate the question. How do you think we should handle this? What would you do? And just redirect them into getting them to answer it themselves. Don [00:08:43] Sometimes employees say I don’t know you’re the manager you’re supposed to know. That still is an opportunity to say okay well let’s think about this together but let’s go on this journey. It’s almost like, walk with me. Let’s figure this out together. Don [00:08:57] I’m curious about how a leader can tell if it’s the right time or the right moment or the right space in a person’s career for them to be coachable, to be open to being coached. Carylynn [00:09:09] So, i
19 minutes | a year ago
43. Enneagram Part 2: Why First Understanding Personality Types 8, 9 and 1, Matter
Today’s show is about The Ennegram Part 2: Why First Understanding Personality Types 8, 9 and 1 Matter with Special Guest, Chelsie Sargent. Listen to the show on iTunes, Spotify, Stitcher and Google Play. Chelsie [00:00:01] The Enneagram has nine distinct profiles. Today, we will focus on styles 8, 9 and 1 which all make up the gut or anger triad. These numbers bring goodness, directness and peacemaking to a team. And, it is critical to have these qualities in our places of work. Don [00:00:22] My name is Don Rheem, CEO of E3 Solutions and author of the book, “Thrive By Design: The Neuroscience That Drives High-Performance Cultures.” Don [00:00:31] I speak across North America on the neuroscience of engagement and I’m passionate about helping leaders at every level create engaging, workplace environments, where employees feel safe, recognized and valued. Don [00:00:44] Employees who feel safe are happier, healthier and more productive. Don [00:00:49] Each week, my team and I take on topics impacting managers and we offer solutions to your biggest workplace challenges. Don [00:00:58] And, you’re listening to Thrive By Design, a podcast created by E3 Solutions to give managers CEOs and leaders the tips, strategies and tools needed to create an engaged culture at work. Don [00:01:13] Welcome. I’m your host Don Rheem, CEO of E3 Solutions. As our regular listeners know, over the past few weeks we’ve been talking with subject-matter experts one-on-one about critical workplace challenges. Don [00:01:26] Returning from last week is our guest Chelsie Sargent, a licensed professional counselor and certified specialist in the Enneagram, a 2000-year old personality examination. Don [00:01:38] Chelsie is here, via phone, to continue our discussion around the Enneagram, as we take a closer look at the specific personality profile types that make up the assessment. Don [00:01:49] Welcome back Chelsie. It’s great to be with you once again. Chelsie [00:01:52] It’s my pleasure Don. It’s so good to be here. Don [00:01:55] Chelsea, last week our podcast listeners were introduced to the Enneagram at a broad based level. And, we heard about its origin and its significance, both individually and in the workplace. Don [00:02:06] This week we have an opportunity to dive into three specific types and why first understanding these profiles matter. Chelsea, can you help recap briefly for our listeners who are just tuning in, how you determine your Enneagram number or type? And, what are the first three Enneagram types that we should focus on? And, why is this order significant? Chelsie [00:02:30] Absolutely. The Enneagram, like I described in the last episode, is a 2,000-year old personality examination and it is composed of nine different types or numbers or profiles. You will hear me use all three of those words interchangeably throughout me talking about the Enneagram. Chelsie [00:02:51] And to discover you’re any Enneagram type, it really just begins with understanding and discovering what the Enneagram is. Chelsie [00:02:58] And, whenever I do trainings or start exposing people to this personality assessment, I always begin by talking about all the numbers. Chelsie [00:03:08] And, the number that I begin with is 8. And, I will focus in on what we call “the first triad” which is the gut triad or the anger triad. And, these numbers, which is 8, 9, and 1. Which are the numbers that we’re going to focus in on today. Chelsie [00:03:26] All of these numbers feel things in their body. And, they do this in different ways. They also have easily accessible anger and they manifest this in different ways. And, this will be explained along the way as we we talk about 8, 1 and 9. Don [00:03:44] We’re going to get into these three. I just have a general question here just for listeners. Don [00:03:48] You mentioned a triad. How many triads are there? And, what is their significance? Chelsie [00:03:54] There are three triads on the Enneagram. The first one, which is composed of 8, 9, 1 is the gut triad or the anger triad. Chelsie [00:04:04] And, these people feel things in their body when they are making decisions or trying to come to conclusions on things. Chelsie [00:04:12] The second triad, which is the 2, 3 and 4. This is the “heart triad” or the feelings triad and these numbers feel things deeply. They make decisions or come to conclusions through feelings and they each do this in different ways. And, we’ll talk about that further when we get to those numbers. Chelsie [00:04:33] And, then the thinking triad which is composed of 5, 6 and 7. They come to conclusions or use thought or their head to make decisions, and view the world through the lens of thinking. Don [00:04:48] Let’s come back then to this gut or anger triad, as you described it, and let’s break each of these down, each of the three numbers in the triad down. Don [00:04:56] Can you talk about the 8’s as leaders and how understanding this profile type might be useful or significant in the workplace? Chelsie [00:05:04] Absolutely. The 8s are known as the challenger. They are the big thinkers in the room. They can make things happen. They have tons and tons of energy and they’re very decisive. Chelsie [00:05:18] They are motivated by being strong and they do not want to be controlled. Many eights will tell you that’s probably one of the worst things that can happen to them, specifically in the workplace, is feeling like they are being controlled. They move things forward with gusto. They overcome issues quickly and they do not mind challenging authority. Don [00:05:42] You call them the challengers and I think that’s a wonderful frame. Don [00:05:47] Sometimes they feel, to me, like contrarians. Chelsie [00:05:50] Yes, they can again because they are so direct. Because they have so much energy and because they do not mind coming up against authority, they can definitely come across that way. Don [00:06:01] Is this also the type, when there’re people in the room, that feel that they are smarter or they know more or they just always have to add their own little bit of commentary on something? They just can’t seem to let something go. Chelsie [00:06:15] Yeah. They can also come across as aggressive because they have a hard time letting things go, or they have a powerful voice and take up a lot of energy in the room. They could definitely come across in those ways. They’re also what people would call, specifically in the workplace, pretty powerful leaders in our Western business culture. A lot of CEOs at the highest levels are 8s. Chelsie [00:06:40] They’re bold. They’re blunt. You know people really appreciate their directness. Don [00:06:44] There’s thousands of books in print on leadership, very few books on followership. Does this kind of a powerful leader, is this someone that employees would want to follow? Do they if they find that compelling? Chelsie [00:06:55] That’s a really good question. Chelsie [00:06:57] I think an 8 in a healthy sense, absolutely. Because they are quick thinkers, because they move things forward in timely fashion, people want to get behind them because the train’s moving fast and it’s moving forward in a direction that is usually appealing to people. Chelsie [00:07:16] When 8’s are not healthy, they can come across as aggressive. They can come across as overpowering. They can come across as intimidating, which may make people feel scared working underneath them or not seen, working underneath them because 8s moves so quickly. Don [00:07:34] That’s so interesting and I’m assuming then that there are healthy and unhealthy expressions of each type. Chelsie [00:07:42] Absolutely. You will hear me say a lot, people living into the healthier parts of their personality or the unhealthy parts of their personality. Chelsie [00:07:51] And another word that I always use is having self-awareness and so 8s being self-aware of how much energy they take up in a room, how much energy they have and being self aware that that this is not how everyone functions. ? Don [00:08:08] Is there a disadvantage here? A gender based disadvantage for women if they are an 8? Chelsie [00:08:14] Such a good question. Chelsie [00:08:16] Male eights are often praised and encouraged in the workplace. And, I have found when females come in and see me, specifically when they are in the CEO positions or in higher up levels of management, they have a lot of woundedness about their more aggressive personality stance within the workplace. Chelsie [00:08:36] And, they have been told over years they need to calm down or back off. Or that they’re too much, whereas their male counterparts, those personality traits of themselves are really praised. And so, they feel like they’re having to walk a fine line of being who they really are and using that powerful energy and then not coming across as too aggressive. Don [00:08:58] Is it that there are unhealthy characteristics of each trait or is it an individual who might be an 8 or any other number who lacks the self-awareness of their impact on others, so that their personality type feels unhealthy in its expression? Chelsie [00:09:13] Yeah, I think it’s the latter of what you just mentioned. Chelsie [00:09:16] Again self-awareness is key in this. And so, you knowing about yourself and how you’re coming across and what you bring to the room into the table. And so, not all personality types are going to respond well to bluntness or to you powerfully expressing your feelings. Chelsie [00:09:35] And, it doesn’t necessarily mean that you have to morph into a different person when you walk into a room. But it does mean that you having a good understanding that not all people are going to respond well to that and that y
21 minutes | a year ago
42. The Enneagram: Decoding the Nine Personality Profiles with Special Guest, Chelsie Sargent
Today’s show is about The Enneagram: Decoding the Nine Personality Profiles with Special Guest, Chelsie Sargent. Listen to the show on iTunes, Spotify, Stitcher and Google Play. Chelsie [00:00:00] What leaders and managers should understand about the Enneagram is its unique ability to reveal unknown individual strengths and blind spots. These realizations ultimately propels a sense of self-awareness and mindfulness that can be wielded in the workplace. Don [00:00:18] My name is Don Rheem, CEO of E3 Solutions and author of the book, “Thrive By Design: The Neuroscience That Drives High-Performance Cultures.” Don [00:00:27] I speak across North America on the neuroscience of engagement and I’m passionate about helping leaders at every level create engaging workplace environments where employees feel safe, recognized and valued. Employees who feel safe are happier, healthier and more productive. Don [00:00:45] Each week, my team and I take on topics impacting managers and we offer solutions to your biggest workplace challenges. And, you’re listening to Thrive By Design, a podcast created by E3 Solutions to give managers CEOs and leaders the tips strategies and tools needed to create an engaged culture at work. Don [00:01:09] Welcome. I’m your host Don Rheem, CEO of E3 Solutions. As our regular listeners know, over the past few weeks we’ve been talking with subject matter experts one-on-one about critical workplace challenges. Don [00:01:22] Our guest this week via Skype from Texas is Chelsie Sargent, a licensed professional counselor and a certified specialist in the Enneagram, a-2000-year-old personality examination. Don [00:01:35] The Enneagram is composed of nine numbers and Chelsie will speak to us in a four-part series about why understanding these numbers can help people become more self-aware and interact more effectively and compassionately with the world around them. Don [00:01:50] Welcome Chelsie and thanks for being with us. Chelsie [00:01:53] It’s my pleasure Don. It’s great to be with you today. Don [00:01:56] Chelsie, almost every worker, leader and manager has had some experience with personality tests in the workplace. In fact, some experts estimate that up to 60 percent of workers are now asked to take workplace personality assessments. Don [00:02:10] Let’s dive right into this topic. What is the Enneagram and why are companies asking more workers to take personality assessments like these? Chelsie [00:02:19] Yeah. So like you mentioned before, the Enneagram has been around for about 2000 years and the way that I like to describe it is the Enneagram is the Rosetta Stone of personality assessments. And, you’re right there are a lot of different personality examinations and tests and assessments out there that companies are starting to incorporate. Chelsie [00:02:41] And, I favor the Enneagram for many reasons. One, there’s many different layers to it. It is very complex and in a good handful of years that I’ve been studying it, it is spot on. Chelsie [00:02:55] It is composed about of nine, different personality styles and Enneagram broken down is “Ennea” means nine and “gram” means points, so that is where the word comes from. Don [00:03:10] One of the things that I have not appreciated about personality tests is how they tend to label people, like they can’t move or there’s not context. And one of the things that I have appreciated about the Enneagram and why we have an Enneagram workshop that E3 Solutions, that you lead, is that it doesn’t simply label people. Don [00:03:30] It really is more about identifying strengths and context about a person. Don [00:03:36] And, the best part of the Enneagram work that I like is, the extensive discussion, about how if you are a three for example, how do you get along with fours or fives? And, what do they like about you? What do they find challenging about you? Don [00:03:50] It really just adds a lot of context for leaders, you just have to cope with personalities but to integrate and to work with them. Chelsie [00:03:59] Absolutely. One of the things I talk to people about in regards to the Enneagram, in relation to other personality assessments, is I feel like a lot of other personality assessments box you into a corner. And, the Enneagram shows you out of that box. Chelsie [00:04:14] It has so many different layers of who you are and how, like you were explaining, react to different people. And it starts from the basis of personality. Chelsie [00:04:25] Many experts say that the Enneagram is very evident in someone’s life by age 5. And, the personality adjusts and incorporates experiences as the person experiences life. And, so by the time that someone’s an adult and entering into the workforce it is pretty paramount to understand how you view yourself, how you view others and how you get along well with others specifically in management positions. Don [00:04:55] I loved it when we used it at E3 Solutions with all of our team members. It just created such clarity about why certain people work in a certain way and what’s important to them and then you don’t have to then struggle with what’s important to them but come alongside it and work with it. Don [00:05:12] I do have another question for you though, how did the Enneagram originate and why? What do we know about its origins? We know it’s 2000 years old but where did it come from? Chelsie [00:05:23] Yeah. So it was actually brought over to the U.S. in the mid-19th century and began circulating around the 70s. I’m a therapist and so I have really been interested in the psychological pieces and how that has come through the psychology world. Chelsie [00:05:42] And in the 70s a psychiatrist named Claudio Naranjo began incorporating it into his work. And, since then over the last 50 years, the Enneagram has circulated widely in many different areas from spiritual direction, to psychology to more recently being incorporated on corporate levels of business. Chelsie [00:06:03] In fact the man the untrained under, Dr. Jerry Wagner, was one of the first people, here in the U.S. to really start incorporating it on an academic level and wrote his dissertation in the Enneagram in the early 80s. And, so that is where a lot of my training comes from. Don [00:06:20] It’s been around long enough in the U.S., as you say from the 70s, where now you can go to Amazon for example and find books not only on the Enneagram but the Enneagram in the workplace. It feels like there’s been a lot of adaptation into the workplace. Help me understand that a little bit better. Chelsie [00:06:38] The more that we go on in society and the more self-aware we get is their own self-awareness. And realizing that the way people interact is really important, specifically in the workplace. And, as different generations come up, that has really defined what different generations define satisfaction around the workplace and relationships with their co-workers. Chelsie [00:07:06] And so the Enneagram adds a lot of valuable context and content to that because with the nine numbers, not only do you get to see your personality type, you also really begin to understand that not everyone sees through the same lens that you see life through. And, that is an important concept to really understand and incorporate when you are working alongside other people. Don [00:07:31] As you know, Chelsie, we measure engagement in organizations and we do it by manager. And, it’s not unusual in a company to have some workgroups 100% engaged and other workgroups 100% disengaged. Don [00:07:46] And, it’s the same company the same pay scale the same culture. The only difference between those two extremes in the workgroups is the manager. And, what we’re finding is the managers that tend to have these highest scores around engagement are the ones that are the most, you could say, emotionally intelligent. Don [00:08:04] But, I don’t think it’s just that. They’ve figured out a way to identify people’s strengths and work with them and not just have a one size fits all which doesn’t work in these workgroups. And these managers that seem to be locked into a one size fits all they become top-down hierarchical and punitive of employees. Don [00:08:25] And, if someone doesn’t see the world as they do, as you just referenced, they tend to want to get rid of them like there’s something wrong with them. And the Enneagram tells us something different, doesn’t it? Chelsie [00:08:36] It does. It lets you not take things personally. And, so when you were having conflict with someone it really opens up doors and windows for you to be able to step back and say they are literally seeing this from different angles than me. And so, how can I come alongside them instead of power over them? And, I think that is a powerful approach in leadership. Don [00:09:01] So, let’s step back from the use of the Enneagram at work and just more generally how it’s being used today and by whom. Chelsie [00:09:09] Yeah. So, I tell people that the Enneagram is for everyone. And, so when I’ve gone to a lot of my trainings and specifically when I’ve been trained, there is a little bit of everything in the room where I’m being trained. Chelsie [00:09:21] Everyone from pretty high up and corporate levels to people who are coaches to therapists to ministers to stay-at-home moms to people who are just trying to figure out how to be a better human. And so the Enneagram is for everyone and as we’ve referenced a lot in today’s discussion it is a pretty hot topic in today’s society. Chelsie [00:09:47] You can open up Instagram and Twitter and you can find all sorts of feed on the Enneagram and people doing all sorts of amazing things w
24 minutes | a year ago
41. Emotional Intelligence with Special Guest, Kerry Goyette
Today’s show is about Emotional Intelligence with Special Guest, Kerry Goyette. Listen to the show on iTunes, Spotify, Stitcher and Google Play. Kerry [00:00:00] EQ is really about the intelligent use of emotions, which influences your decision-making quality of your relationships, and your ability to be flexible and agile in shifting environments. Don [00:00:15] My name is Don Rheem CEO of E3 Solutions and author of the book, “Thrive By Design: The Neuroscience That Drives High-Performance Cultures.” Don [00:00:24] I speak across North America on the neuroscience of engagement and I’m passionate about helping leaders at every level create engaging workplace environments where employees feel safe, recognized and valued. Employees who feel safe are happier, healthier and more productive. Don [00:00:42] Each week, my team and I take on topics impacting managers and we offer solutions to your biggest workplace challenges. Don [00:00:51] And, you’re listening to Thrive By Design, a podcast created by E3 Solutions to give managers CEOs and leaders the tips, strategies and tools needed to create an engaged culture at work. Don [00:01:06] Welcome. I’m your host Don Rheem CEO of E3 Solutions. Don [00:01:10] Over the next several weeks, we are thrilled to be launching a special guest series where we talk with subject-matter experts one-on-one about critical workplace challenges. Don [00:01:20] Our special guest this week is Kerry Goyette, founder and CEO of Aperio Consulting Group a corporate consulting firm that leverages people analytics to build high-performance teams. Don [00:01:32] As a certified professional behavior analyst and a certified forensic interviewer, Kerry is an expert in emotional intelligence. Her new book, “The Non-Obvious Guide to Emotional Intelligence,” will be released June 28 and is available right now on preorder on Amazon. Don [00:01:51] Welcome Kerry and thank you for taking the time to be here with us. Kerry [00:01:55] It’s my pleasure, Don. It’s great to be with you today. Don [00:01:58] Kerry, recently the World Economic Forum released a report dealing with emotional intelligence saying that it will be a top skill required for employees by 2020. Help us understand how does this report shed light on the importance of emotional intelligence in the workplace and what is it saying about how it has shifted over the years with regards to impacting workplace engagement? Kerry [00:02:21] Yeah, it’s interesting. As I look back over my career and monitoring emotional intelligence over the past two decades it certainly has shifted. But, I want to start off first by defining what it is for our audience. Kerry [00:02:35] Often when I ask about emotional intelligence, when I’m working with teams everybody knows it’s a really good thing to have. Kerry [00:02:41] But when I ask what it is, people kind of start to stumble. Kerry [00:02:45] And, so it can be a bit conceptual. So, I like to always break it down. Emotional intelligence and I will also refer to as “EQ,” which stands for emotional quotient, is really defined as the ability to identify, assess and control your own emotions, influence the emotions of others and that of groups. Kerry [00:03:04] And, so EQ is really about the intelligent use of emotions which influences your decision-making, the quality of your relationships and your ability to be flexible and agile and shifting environments. Kerry [00:03:18] You know when we go back to to the report that you referenced, one of the reasons why emotional intelligence is becoming much more of a hot topic and identified as a critical skill going forward, it’s actually for a couple of reasons. Kerry [00:03:32] And, I know Don you talk often a lot about the labor shortage. So we have that issue going on. Leadership is just simply become much more complex because we’re facing several challenges. So, one of which is the labor shortage. Kerry [00:03:45] Also, it’s the first time in American history that we have five generations in the workforce and that just presents unique challenges because it’s each of the generations has their own unique styles, the way they approach work, their own context with which they look through. Kerry [00:03:59] And then, an interesting aspect is that Gen X, the generation after the Boomers represent only 28 percent of the population. So, as boomers start to leave the workforce there actually is not going to be enough Gen X individuals to fill the leadership positions that are going to be needed. Kerry [00:04:15] And so what’s going to happen is it’s going to thrust millennials into leadership positions that they’re not ready for either emotionally or professionally. And, so researchers are calling it this, “leadership gap crisis” that we’re getting ready to hit. Kerry [00:04:27] And then on top of that we’re in what researchers call, “VUCA,” environment. And so VUCA’s an acronym that was coined by the U.S. military that stands for Volatile, Uncertain, Complex and Ambiguous. Kerry [00:04:40] And so just that type of environment it naturally can trigger a threat in the brain. And when we experience these kinds of conditions, our emotional intelligence or our EQ will often drop and that’s when we see some counterproductive behavior come out. Kerry [00:04:56] And so it’s just been an interesting shift looking at where we’re going in the future and then when we can take a look backward into history. Daniel Goleman who is essentially the grandfather of emotional intelligence has been tracking EQ and he reports that IQ, so our intelligence has increased about 24 points over the last three decades, but the problem is EQ has declined over that same time. Kerry [00:05:21] So there’s this dangerous paradox that’s going on. So children are becoming much smarter in their intelligence but their emotional intelligence is on the decline. So we’re in kind of this interesting environment where the environment is actually demanding more emotional intelligence but emotional intelligence has essentially been on the decline. Don [00:05:41] Well it’s interesting Kerry because I talk about this issue over the last two, three decades, technology has allowed us to be in touch with people and to reach out and to contact people more easily at lower cost than ever before. And yet at the same time, the number of Americans reporting to be pervasively alone and isolated in their life has doubled from 20 to 40 percent of the population. Don [00:06:03] And one former. U.S. surgeon general calls this pandemic of social isolation spreading across America as one of the most severe public health threats that we face. So the technology allows us to get in touch but we’re not having this emotional connection that occurs with it. Don [00:06:22] And, I know the National Institutes of Health has started a longitudinal study about the impact of technology, even of looking at someone on a smartphone, even on Facetime where you see their face digitally, there’s something about the brain in a two dimensional object it sees but it doesn’t resonate. You don’t get an emotional experience from it. Don [00:06:42] So we have a generation and so we have the millennials and Gen Z right behind them, anyone who’s 24 years old and younger, who are like you say very smart, very adaptive technology and yet we feel more alone and isolated and less emotionally mature than we ever have before. Kerry [00:06:57] Right. And so this rise in technology and just kind of creates an interesting conundrum because you know again at some level it’s great. You know we’ve got A.I., you know the leaders are getting excited about A.I. data analytics and blockchain and then we’ve got these great millennials that are coming in with all of these great skills. Kerry [00:07:16] But you’re exactly right, they’re coming in essentially starved for social relationships and even with social media what they’re looking at is yes, we are able to connect with more people and we can connect more often but the challenge is a lot of times that connection is often superficial and it’s replacing the face to face time. And so that’s where you know technology can be used to supplement but it shouldn’t be used to replace good deep social relationships. Kerry [00:07:45] And what’s interesting with Gen Z coming and researchers are starting to see with Gen Z, they’ve been so dependent on technology that they’re actually coming and starting to enter the workforce and they’re actually wanting more face to face than millennials simply because they’re starved for it. Don [00:07:59] You know it’s so interesting and compelling for managers. And from a manager’s perspective and you mentioned the increasing complexity for managers in the workplace and historically in an environment where there’s been an abundance of labor for the last two hundred and fifty years in the American economy, we didn’t have to care about these things. Don [00:08:20] People just showed up and they worked because they needed the job. But in this new environment where employees actually don’t need your job, they can work essentially anywhere they want, managers do have to be more attuned to this. Don [00:08:34] What are some common, I’m trying to think of some of these common phrases that we’ve used our whole lives that demonstrate emotional intelligence. And I think of words like attunement and being present and active listening. What are some other familiar terms for managers that are good signs that one is expressing a high EQ? Kerry [00:08:55] One of which is, you know, again it’s thrown around a lot but the ability to be empathetic.
20 minutes | a year ago
40. Preparing to Perform: What Superstars Do That Most People Miss with Special Guest, Andrew Sykes
Today’s show is about Preparing to Perform: What Superstars Do That Most People Miss with Special Guest, Andrew Sykes. Listen to the show on iTunes, Spotify, Stitcher and Google Play. The senior leaders who take time to prepare themselves physically and emotionally, who take time to plan and prioritize what they’re going to do, and who take time to be intentional about what a meeting is about, what outcomes they will get, so they can run it with efficiency, are the ones who just blow the doors off their performance and have a team that thanks them for it. —Andrew Sykes Don [00:00:26] My name is Don Rheem, CEO of E3 Solutions and author of the book, “Thrive By Design: The Neuroscience That Drives High-Performance Cultures.” Don [00:00:35] I speak across North America on the neuroscience of engagement and I’m passionate about helping leaders at every level create engaging workplace environments where employees feel safe, recognized and valued. Don [00:00:49] Employees who feel safe are happier, healthier and more productive. Each week, my team and I take on topics impacting managers and we offer solutions to your biggest workplace challenges. Don [00:01:02] And, you’re listening to Thrive By Design, a podcast created by E3 Solutions to give managers CEOs and leaders the tips, strategies and tools needed to create an engaged culture at work. Don [00:01:18] Welcome. I’m your host Don Rheem CEO of E3 Solutions. We are thrilled to be continuing our conversation with guest, Andrew Sykes, whom we spent time with last week. Don [00:01:29] Andrew is an expert on leadership organizational performance and business development and he’s the CEO of Habits At Work, a Chicago-based firm that helps people create and master high-impact work habits. Don [00:01:43] Andrew has spent over a decade researching workplace habits that make business performance thrive. Over the years, he’s created a powerful, actionable framework for a habit change. Don [00:01:54] And today, he’s going to speak with us about three fundamental habits within that framework that help leaders prepare to perform at their best and what superstars do that most people miss. Don [00:02:07] Welcome Andrew and it’s great to have you back on the show. Andrew [00:02:10] Wonderful to be back again, Don, thank you for having me. Don [00:02:13] Andrew, you’ve coach leaders for a long, long time, many years at all levels, to help them learn and master the power of habits to create thriving high-performance employees and companies. Don [00:02:23] In the last episode, you spoke to our listeners about the three habits around how to become a magnetic leader. And today, we’re going to spend time talking about how to help leaders and managers really prepare to perform at their highest levels in the workplace. Don [00:02:37] What our listeners will gain here is some clear evidence about how to show up at work each day prepared to perform at their best. Don [00:02:45] For our listeners who are new to the podcast and are unfamiliar with your work, can you briefly run through the 11 habits, just for some context, and then let’s dive into the three habits we’re going to talk about in this episode around preparing for outstanding workplace performance. Andrew [00:03:01] Sure Don. Andrew [00:03:01] The 11 habits include many things that we know are essential to performance. Things like telling stories and presenting ideas—very powerful for salespeople and customer success and leaders. Andrew [00:03:14] Habits like negotiating so that we get what we want while customers feel they got what they need. But, there are a set of these habits that aren’t so much the performance itself as the things we can do to prepare to perform. Andrew [00:03:28] And work is so busy and frenetic that it feels like we just go from one performance to the next. We go from one meeting or from one presentation to the next. We don’t really take the time to make sure that every time we do perform, we’ve prepared to make it really count. Andrew [00:03:46] And, in the world of professional sports and other areas, the ratio of practice to performance goes up the better you get. But in the world of work, the more experience you have, the less we tend to prepare. Andrew [00:03:57] And, I think our leaders, in particular, and the businesses that they lead pay a price for that. Don [00:04:02] Andrew, of the three habits you mentioned that support exceptional performance, can we break each one of them down for our listeners and talk about their meaning and why they are so critical? Andrew [00:04:13] Sure Don. Andrew [00:04:13] The first one is the habit of planning and prioritizing. And, this probably sounds to listeners as the most boring one. Andrew [00:04:21] But if you think about it, if you spend your time being busy, but busy doing the wrong stuff, it can not only wear you down emotionally and leave you flat but it actually can harm a business. Andrew [00:04:34] And, we all think that we do the right things at the right time. But, if we were really honest with ourselves or we watch someone else working, we would question a lot of the choices that people make. Andrew [00:04:44] And, one of the reasons for it is, as human beings we’re drawn to attending to what’s urgent, what’s stressful, what fire is alight. Versus instead on focusing on the things that are most important. Andrew [00:04:56] And Eisenhower taught us this with his Eisenhower matrix, which is just a way of looking at is something either important or not important? And, is it urgent or not urgent? Andrew [00:05:07] And, many authors have used the same tool to help us just focus every single day on the things that matter most. At Habits At Work, we have a system we call, “A Daily Do’s,” which is to focus on one thing that you must do today that will have the greatest impact on the business or your results. And, then two things you’re likely to do and three, that maybe you’ll do. Andrew [00:05:30] And, that sounds like an easy system, but what it does is it focuses the mind on the most impactful to the least so you attend to those things when your energy is high and as a first priority rather than later on. Andrew [00:05:43] Part of planning and prioritizing is also learning the essential skill of how to say, no, or not now, or not me, to the things that tend to pull us into doing the wrong things at the wrong time. Don [00:05:55] I love what you say here about these daily do’s. We talk about with our clients, Andrew, the importance of beginning the day with intentionality. Don [00:06:04] And many employees, they come to work every day without a specific intention. They might come to work in, just as you said, they look at their emails to see what’s the most urgent or not even what’s the most urgent, but what’s the most recent email. Don [00:06:17] And, we become reactive in our in how we respond during the day. And, we talk about starting the day with intent. And, so some of our clients, for example, are starting their day, managers are starting their day with a simply daily huddle. No one sits down, it’s not a meeting. It shouldn’t last more than eight or nine minutes. And the manager simply goes around to each employee and says, what do you have to get done today? What’s top of your list? Don [00:06:41] And, what we know is that if an employee begins the day with that kind of intentionality, it’s actually much more likely for those things to get done. Don [00:06:49] Would you agree with that approach? Andrew [00:06:51] Completely. In fact, the research suggests that if you just spend 10 minutes at the beginning of each day setting out what your priorities are and setting that intention, you will avoid something like two hours of unproductive tasks in that same day. Andrew [00:07:06] That’s an extraordinary return on investment for companies and it just comes from focusing on the right things in the right order. Simple in theory but it takes some discipline. Don [00:07:17] Do you think that just how we’ve become as a workplace culture that just responds to emails has changed the way we process tax tasks and are able to prioritize? Andrew [00:07:29] Absolutely. I think that the email programs that we use have become our de facto method for prioritizing. And it’s prioritizing someone else’s important things for us rather than us taking control of our own careers and saying what for me or what for my customers are the most important things that I can do. Andrew [00:07:50] And, the answer is almost never get to a zero inbox. Don [00:07:53] I love that. Don [00:07:56] The next habit you talk about is one that I don’t think many of us are very good at and that is self-care. What is so critical about self-care as a habit and how it relates to our performance when we’re at work? Andrew [00:08:08] It’s a little like planning and prioritizing it’s something that people know they should do and they tend not to do. And it has a similar impact. Andrew [00:08:17] If you think about the average American employee, they come to work each day in less than full health. They’re worried about making ends meet and maybe spending time on or at least stressing about their financial security. Andrew [00:08:31] And, as we know from the surveys that you do, many employees are disengaged. They’re not happy at work. They don’t have a sense of purpose. Andrew [00:08:39] And just imagine the price we pay if every day, every employee comes to work a little unhealthy, fatigued, unhappy and insecure. Andrew [00:08:49] Or, by comparison, what would be available if every employee showed up in the best shape of their life with purpose and clarity of their tasks not distracted by financial concerns? Andrew [00:09:03]
17 minutes | a year ago
39. 3 Habits to Become A Magnetic Leader: Special Guest, Andrew Sykes
Today’s show is about 3 Habits to Become A Magnetic Leader with Special Guest, Andrew Sykes. Listen to the show on iTunes, Spotify, Stitcher and Google Play. Andrew [00:00:00] The way we think about this is that, you really are your habits, and so, if you’re interested in becoming a magnetic human being, you need to think about the habits that define such a person. Don [00:00:16] My name is Don Rheem CEO of E3 Solutions and author of the book, “Thrive By Design: The Neuroscience That Drives High-Performance Cultures.” Don [00:00:25] I speak across North America on the neuroscience of engagement and I’m passionate about helping leaders at every level create engaging workplace environments where employees feel safe, recognized and valued. Employees who feel safe are happier, healthier and more productive. Don [00:00:43] Each week, my team and I take on topics impacting managers and we offer solutions to your biggest workplace challenges. And, you’re listening to Thrive By Design, a podcast created by E3 Solutions to give managers, CEOs and leaders the tips strategies and tools needed to create an engaged culture at work. Don [00:01:07] Welcome. I’m your host Don Rheem CEO of E3 Solutions. This week is especially exciting because we’re launching our special guest series where we talk with subject-matter experts one-on-one about critical workplace topics and challenges. Don [00:01:23] Our guest this week and next is Andrew Sykes, an expert on leadership organizational performance and business development and the CEO of Habits At Work, a Chicago-based firm that helps people create and master high-impact work habits. Don [00:01:38] Andrew has spent over a decade researching workplace habits that make business performance thrive. Over the years, he’s created a powerful, actionable framework for habit change. And, today he’s going to speak with us about three fundamental habits within that framework that create and support magnetic leadership. Don [00:01:58] Welcome Andrew and thank you for taking the time to be here. Andrew [00:02:02] Don, it’s a pleasure to be on the show. Thank you for having me. I’m excited to talk to you. Don [00:02:06] Andrew, you’ve dedicated the many years of your career to coaching leaders and organization,  really at all levels, to learn and master the power of habits to create thriving high-performance employees and companies. Don [00:02:20] For our listeners who might be new to your work, can you briefly recap the 11 habits, just for context, and then perhaps we can turn our focus to the three habits we’re going to talk about in this episode around creating and supporting magnetic leadership. Andrew [00:02:36] Don, the way we’ve thought about this is to look at the research literature and people’s experience at work to ask which things do we do repetitively over time, of course, we call these habits, that really make the biggest difference to how people show up and stand out at work. Andrew [00:02:54] Is there evidence that says some things make you an effective, magnetic productive human being a leader? And, the answer we’ve come to is that, yes indeed there are, in our view, eleven habits that define the highest level of performance. Andrew [00:03:10] And, many of them will occur for you as things that are quite obvious. It’s a little bit though like driving a car. Many people are able to drive from A to B, but not many of us are racing car driver levels. Andrew [00:03:24] And, there’s a difference between good enough and mastery. So, the habits that we look at our habits in which if you become a master, you will completely stand out and be extraordinary compared to everyone else. Andrew [00:03:37] They include things like running effective meetings. We spend half of our life in meetings and most of us complain they’re terribly unproductive. It includes how you present ideas and tell stories. The habit of solving problems and keeping your word, how you negotiate so that you get what you want and others get what they need. Andrew [00:03:56] And, we’ll be talking about next week the habits of prioritizing self-care and choosing to do the right things at the right time—planning and prioritizing. Andrew [00:04:04] The three we’re going to talk about today though are the three that really make people stand out and have people be attracted to you. They are number one, the habit of getting good at getting great at anything. That’s the habit of giving and receiving feedback. Number two, the habit of listening empathically. And, number three, the habit of posing the right questions to unlock new pathways for action for yourself and for other people. Don [00:04:30] We’re lucky enough to continue our conversation with Andrew in the next episode as we explore habits around performance and self-care which is the subject of your book, “The Eleventh Habit: Design Your Company Culture to Foster the Habits of High-Performance,” and you can look for that book link in our show notes. Don [00:04:47] Andrew, of the three habits you just mentioned that support magnetic leadership, can we break each one of them down for our listeners and just talk about what they mean and their significance? Don [00:04:57] What is this habit number one, a deliberate practice with feedback? Andrew [00:05:03] This is the habit that has you become a master at whatever you choose to become good at. And, if you think about what we are attracted to in other human beings it’s often that they are extraordinary at something. Andrew [00:05:16] They’re the Tiger Woods of golf or they’re the Meryl Streep of acting because they are just so much better than everyone else and the question is how do you become remarkably good at something? Andrew [00:05:26] And, for most people the answer is, well, it’s lucky, it’s born-in talent. But the truth is it’s not. It’s hours of what we call deliberate practice with feedback. So, what is deliberate practice? It is practicing intentionally, with the focus on how you can improve using feedback in order to improve. And the way to distinguish it is from repetitive practice, which is just doing the same thing over and over again. Andrew [00:05:54] In work we call that experience. And, what we’ve noticed is people with a lot of experience are not people who generally are masters of their art, because experience in our view, is the enemy of mastery. Whereas deliberate practice is the genesis of genius. Andrew [00:06:12] And, there’s a beautiful story to illustrate this. A very strange guy named, Laszlo Polgar, decided to conduct what some people think is a Frankenstein type experiment, but really is a master clinic in this idea that deliberate practice can create greatness. Andrew [00:06:28] He had three daughters and he coached each of them, since he’s a chess player, in the art of playing chess. And, over a lifetime they became respectively, the world’s champion, the second-best and the sixth-best women’s champions on the planet. Andrew [00:06:44] And, you may say well you know that’s genes and they were just lucky to be born into that family. But when you study that story you’ll see that it was years and years of deliberate practice with feedback and it’s really the feedback that’s magical. So, if we pull this apart, the habit that we’re looking for, is how do you ask for receive and use feedback? Don [00:07:07] That’s great. Andrew, let’s talk about the second habit, empathetic listening. What is empathetic listening have to do with magnetic leadership and why is this important to creating an engaged and successful workplace environment where people thrive? Andrew [00:07:22] There’s an old saying which says, to be interesting, which is an aspect of magnet magnetism, be interested. Andrew [00:07:30] And, what it means to listen to someone is to pay attention to them. We tend to think we listen with our ears but the reality is when we are judging whether someone’s listening to us or not, we’re looking at whether their eyes are focused on us, whether their body language and face is reflecting how we’re speaking and what we’re saying. Andrew [00:07:47] So, we think empathetic or empathic listening is three things. It’s, of course, listening to what someone says but it’s being able to empathize and feel with how they feel based on what they say. And, then even to dig beneath that and to look for or listen for what really matters to those people in their life, what are their concerns. Andrew [00:08:09] And, if you can recreate for someone how they are speaking, what they feel and what really matters to them, you’ll leave them feeling not just heard but completely understood and gotten. Andrew [00:08:21] And, we have evidence from our experience our own personal experience that listening is essentially falling in love. Andrew [00:08:30] Just think of someone who you consider to be an extraordinary listener. And, if you can think of that person, ask yourself how do I feel about them? And, I would bet anything that your response is, I love them, I admire them, I like them, I think they’re great. It’s almost a golden rule that those who listen best are the people we like trust and admire the most. Don [00:08:52] I couldn’t agree with you more, Andrew. I did a TEDx talk and one of the things that got picked up the most and was this line, the future of work will be defined more by how it feels than how it pays. And, someone just sent me a picture over the weekend of a billboard outside of San Francisco and Berkeley. And the sign said the future of business is about feeling. Don [00:09:18] And, I thought wow, who would put that up? But it was one of the big sort of cognitive consult
20 minutes | a year ago
38. Managing Up, A Crucial Employee Skill Set
Today’s show is about Managing Up. Listen to the show on iTunes, Spotify, Stitcher and Google Play. Don [00:00:00] Managing up is not just being a passive observer in the workplace and being the recipient of what just falls upon you, but to actually take a stand and become more active and take some responsibility about the relationships you have above you. Don [00:00:20] My name is Don Rheem CEO of E3 Solutions and author of the book, “Thrive By Design: The Neuroscience That Drives High-Performance Cultures.” Don [00:00:29] I speak across North America on the neuroscience of engagement and I’m passionate about helping leaders at every level create engaging workplace environments where employees feel safe, recognized and valued. Employees who feel safe are happier, healthier and more productive. Don [00:00:47] Each week, my team and I take on topics impacting managers and we offer solutions to your biggest workplace challenges. Don [00:00:56] And, you’re listening to Thrive By Design, a podcast created by E3 Solutions to give managers CEOs and leaders the tips, strategies and tools needed to create an engaged culture at work. Kelly [00:01:11] Welcome. I’m your host Kelly Burns, vice president of client experiences at E3 Solutions. Kelly [00:01:17] As always, we tackle critical workplace themes each week with our resident expert and CEO Don Rheem. Kelly [00:01:23] Welcome Don and thank you for taking the time to be here with us. Don [00:01:27] It’s my pleasure, Kelly. Kelly [00:01:28] As we heard at the top of today’s episode, this week’s focus is on why managing up is a crucial employee skillset. Kelly [00:01:36] Close to 60% of Americans say they would do a better job at work if they got along better with their boss. That’s a pretty sad statistic. Kelly [00:01:45] What is managing up? Don [00:01:46] Well, managing up, at least in my mind—in our minds at E3, is not just being a passive observer in the workplace and being the recipient of what just falls upon you, but to actually take a stand and become more active and take some responsibility about the relationships you have above you. Kelly [00:02:08] I like the word responsibility there. To take ownership or responsibility for making your relationships better or your environment better. If close to 60% of Americans say they would do a better job if they got along better with their boss, how much are they actually putting in themselves to do a better job to have a better relationship with their boss? Don [00:02:27] Yeah, I think some of us, you know, whether it’s a victim mentality or learned helplessness or we don’t typically get involved in that relationship in a proactive way. Don [00:02:38] Don’t just wait for things to happen to you. Take some steps and I think there’s a series of things that you can do to kind of outline how this managing up process is going to work. Don [00:02:49] And, the first to me is to just conceptualize that I’m going to invest in this relationship of this person above me. Now, this can be an employee investing in their relationship with their manager. It can be a manager investing in the relationship of the person that they report to. Don [00:03:06] I mean everybody reports to someone and someone would say but not the CEO. Well, actually yes, even the CEO. If there’s a board of directors they need to manage up and be involved in those relationships. So invest in the relationship. Kelly [00:03:19] We’ve talked a lot over the many episodes about the importance of validation is seeing the other person, as a person, asking about their weekend, talking about the kids’ soccer game, things like that. Kelly [00:03:30] That is, very true, not just for the manager to the employee but also for the employee to the manager, to be attuned to the fact that their leader is a person who has outside activities that they can bond with and connect to. And, investing in that relationship is a two-way street, not a one-way street. Don [00:03:50] Well and also, I think, employees need to understand that sometimes people in leadership positions where it’s a supervisor, a lead, or a manager or a senior leader, they need input as well. Don [00:04:04] They sometimes are the hungriest people for validation and recognition inside the organization. And it’s okay for an employee to tell, for example, a manager, hey, I just thought you handled that really well. That’s was spot on, you just handled that really well. Don [00:04:19] And, the smart manager who understands the role of emotion and connection is going to validate that contribution. The old school manager who thinks that leadership is top-down and hierarchical and punitive is going to say, look, I don’t need your input, if I needed your opinion I’d ask you for it. That’s the old style. Don [00:04:37] Isn’t going to work, does not create emotional velcro between employees and organizations. So this investment is not only good for the relationship but it actually can benefit the person you’re investing in. Make them feel more confident in what they’re doing and more successful. Kelly [00:04:54] That’s one of the opportunities that can come up in those two-way feedback meetings, those regular feedback meetings we often talk about. The employee is talking to the manager in clear and invaluable terms. Don [00:05:07] Well, you say two ways but usually, it isn’t. It’s the manager talking one-way giving feedback down. But you’re absolutely right. Don [00:05:14] What we advocate is that true feedback is bi-directional, and there needs to be a point in that feedback conversation, that we think should happen once a month, where the manager solicits some input. Don [00:05:28] And it’s not necessarily, hey, how do you think I’m doing. But it’s, is there anything else I could be doing? Is there anything I could do to help the team? Don [00:05:36] When a manager solicits that kind of two-way conversation, I want us to be willing to invest in that relationship and to have something to say. This relates to a second aspect of managing up that I think is so important. Don [00:05:49] It’s just simply being proactive. Don’t just react. Don’t just be the recipient of what happens around you but to be proactive in that relationship. Kelly [00:05:58] One of the pieces of advice that I often give to employees is that they will always succeed if they look for need or opportunity and fill that need or opportunity without being asked. Kelly [00:06:12] That’s one of the quickest ways that you can build credibility, that you can support the people around you, that you can manage up to your supervisor, well, is to see a need that’s in your team, in your department, in your organization and fill it without being asked or without waiting for something to be mandated to you. Kelly [00:06:29] That’s part of investing in relationships, showing that you care enough to step up to the plate and to act on things whether or not your manager sees that need. Don [00:06:38] So, we typically think of being proactive as like filling these needs, but we think of those as being work-related needs, assignments, projects. Don [00:06:47] This need is about the strength of the relationships, inside the group, the team and the individual’s relationship with the person they report. Don [00:06:56] Be proactive about that relationship and don’t just wait for someone to ask you for help but to be helpful. And, to offer yourself up and say hey, you mentioned in the team meeting we need to get this done. Is there anything I can do that would help you execute on that? Just be simply proactive. Kelly [00:07:13] Absolutely. Don [00:07:14] The third thing I recommend about managing up is to share what feels good to you. That is, simply just to share your emotional experience. Don [00:07:22] So, I might say, hey Kelly, when we finished that assignment for that customer just seeing all the smiles on their faces, it just felt really good. I felt really good about what we do as a team and as a company. Don [00:07:34] So, share that emotional experience. That is something that is typically left out of our conversations at work. But this is really important, because as we’ve talked about before, we’re relational creatures and when a manager starts to get a better understanding of how individual employees, what makes them feel good, that gives them an opportunity to be responsive about it. Don [00:07:55] It also signals to them that it went well and it was well-received so don’t be afraid to share what feels good and it can be both personally, it can be based on the team, it can be based on if the company took a stand or did something. Don [00:08:09] Manage up by sharing your emotional experience. Kelly [00:08:12] I like that you mention the word opportunity because I think that’s a key part of managing up. If you can manage up well you can also create really great opportunities for yourself to continue advancing within an organization to support your own career success and goals. Kelly [00:08:27] For example, in previous organizations I’ve worked in, going back to the whole concept of see a need and fill it, coupling that with what you just talked about, where you’re sharing what feels good to you, what you enjoy doing, what helps you thrive in the workplace. Kelly [00:08:42] If you are able to see a need and fill it and be very vocal with your supervisor about the ways in which that particular aspect of the way that you work brings you joy, helps you thrive, that can help them envision new ways in which you could contribute to an organization where you’re using those skill sets more. Kelly [00:09:03] So in the past I have done this in ways where I’m stepping into a major
14 minutes | a year ago
37. Communicating Strategy and Vision
Today’s show is about Communicating Strategy and Vision. Listen to the show on iTunes, Spotify, Stitcher and Google Play. Don [00:00:00] The mission statement is what we do. The vision statement is, typically, what is it going to look like as we’re headed there? We try to impress upon leaders that the words don’t count unless their behaviors and actions are verifying and making those words come alive inside the organization. Don [00:00:20] My name is Don Rheem CEO of E3 Solutions and author of the book, “Thrive By Design: The Neuroscience That Drives High-Performance Cultures.” Don [00:00:29] I speak across North America on the neuroscience of engagement and I’m passionate about helping leaders at every level create engaging workplace environments where employees feel safe, recognized and validated. Don [00:00:42] Employees who feel safe are happier, healthier and more productive. Each week, my team and I take on topics impacting managers and we offer solutions to your biggest workplace challenges. Don [00:00:56] And, you’re listening to Thrive By Design, a podcast created by E3 Solutions to give managers, CEOs and leaders the tips, strategies and tools needed to create an engaged culture at work. Kelly [00:01:11] Welcome. I’m your host Kelly Burns, vice president of client experiences at E3 Solutions. Kelly [00:01:17] As always, we tackle critical workplace themes each week with our resident expert and CEO Don Rheem. Don [00:01:23] Welcome Don and thank you for taking the time to be here with us. Kelly [00:01:27] It’s my pleasure, Kelly. Kelly [00:01:28] As we heard at the top of today’s episode, this week’s focus is on how to successfully communicate a company’s strategy and vision. Kelly [00:01:35] We often talk about the importance of creating attachments in the workplace and one of the key ways that any employee attaches in the workplace is to attach to the company’s mission and vision. Kelly [00:01:46] We have a couple of different survey questions that really lean towards whether or not a company is good at communicating the strategy and mission and vision of an organization, because it’s one thing to have an articulated mission, but it’s a whole nother thing to see it communicated in and played out on a regular basis. Kelly [00:02:03] So at a high altitude, one of the questions we ask is whether senior leaders behavior is consistent with the company’s mission and vision. And, in the first year, the results to this question are just not very good. They fall into the disengaged category. Kelly [00:02:16] Why is that? Don [00:02:17] Too often organizations have great core values and mission and vision statements. Don [00:02:22] For example, employees don’t see those, behaviorally, acted out by senior leaders in the organization. That is, they’ve got these lofty things over here, core values, mission, vision or strategy, but then leaders in the organization are behaving in ways that don’t feel congruent with that. Don [00:02:39] And, this is one of the ways employees decide, are these lofty things just lofty things out there on paper, on a poster? Or, are these really things that drive daily behavior in the organization? Don [00:02:50] And, it is disappointing to see this score so low especially in the first year. And, we try to impress upon leaders that the words don’t count and unless their behaviors and actions are verifying and making those words come alive inside the organization. Kelly [00:03:08] On an encouraging note, we also ask a question about whether or not an employee knows how their individual work contributes to the organization’s goals and mission and that gets a significantly higher score. It falls high into the engaged category. Kelly [00:03:23] So, at a high altitude when you’re looking at senior leaders, maybe way above you, you’re not seeing congruence to living out mission and vision, but at your most granular level in the work that you’re doing, our employees are participants. They do know how their work connects and that gives them that attachment to the mission. Don [00:03:41] Yeah and that’s a testament, I think, to good job on managers. Connecting this most granular aspect to the organization, what this one individual is doing, how it connects to the organization’s goals more broadly and that is done better. Don [00:03:55] It is true that individuals have a better sense of what they’re doing and how it connects than what feels like it’s more distance, it’s at arm’s length. These senior leaders, I only see them occasionally but when I do see them, I don’t see things that signaled to me that this strategy and vision of the organization is key. Don [00:04:16] It can also simply be because CEOs and members of the senior leadership team aren’t talking about them often enough. Don [00:04:24] Maybe it’s stated at an annual town hall meeting but we’re just not seeing it discussed at the departmental level. Kelly [00:04:30] Certainly that’s not regular enough. Don [00:04:32] No it isn’t. You can’t do it once a year. If you want people to feel that the organization is moving in a specific direction, you not only need to identify the direction but then you want to identify typically milestones that indicate you’re making progress in that direction. Kelly [00:04:47] I think one of the things that we do really well in our organization is celebrating accomplishments to the end of our mission or vision. When we see organizations grow in engagement year-over-year and we know the impact that that has in that organization, we share that with the team and we celebrate together as a team knowing that each of us played a part in helping to make that happen. Kelly [00:05:08] That’s one really easy way that organizations can communicate the accomplishment of mission and vision on a regular basis. Don [00:05:14] As a species, the limbic system we talk a lot about the emotional centers of the brain, the epicenter of fight, flight or freeze and emotional processing. Don [00:05:23] One of the things that neuroscientists have identified is it has a penchant for wanting to know what’s next. Where am I going? What’s going to happen next? And, what happens when senior leaders articulate these strategies and these visions, is it starts to make more clear about where are we going. Where are we headed? Don [00:05:44] The vision statement is different than a mission statement. Let me start with mission. We’re not talking about that today but a mission statement is what we do. Essentially, the vision statement is, typically, what is it going to look like as we’re headed there? And, this is where some organizations go a little sideways. Don [00:05:59] When managers in Wells Fargo thought, for example, that the mission and vision of the organization, the strategy was to open new credit card accounts everybody complied. That’s where we’re going and we know what happened. And, that’s just shifting now and Wells Fargo is working hard to change that because they lost a lot of goodwill with the public and with their own customers and clients. Don [00:06:19] There’s four reasons why I think talking about strategy and vision is so important. First, is what I just talked about. It sets clarity on where we’re going and hopefully how we’re going to get there. With that clarity, we’re also getting better alignment. More people are likely to be moving in the same direction when that direction is articulated and repeated again and again and again. Don [00:06:44] It also helps to create a shared sense of social identity for employees. That is, they feel like they’re a part of something bigger than the job they do. That’s important. So, you’re going to get much more of a group working together with similar goals and objectives and that feels good quite frankly at a subconscious level. Don [00:07:03] Also, and this is an area where managers can do a better job and I’d like to talk more about in this podcast is, it gives behavioral guidance to employees. How should I behave? What am I supposed to do? How am I supposed to treat other people? How am I suppose to treat customers and clients? Don [00:07:18] If, for example, the customer experience is job number one, then I want to make sure the experience the customer has is good and positive, it’s not necessarily closing the sale. How do they feel about our brand? And that felt experiences our listeners know is number one for us. Kelly [00:07:35] So we talk about why it’s so important for employees to connect with and understand the company’s strategy and vision. But how do managers do this? How do they establish a clear shared vision for the organization? Don [00:07:46] I think they can start just by stating it in very simple clear ways, terms. Don’t make this overly complex. Simplify it, really simple message on where we’re going and what the strategy is. Don [00:07:59] I would review it quarterly and you know senior leaders certainly with the management should. And then managers, quarterly, should talk about it with their employees. Don [00:08:08] It’s not just about what we’re doing, our team is doing or your numbers or our metrics. It’s where’s the organization going? I think exercise as a manager can do is what I would call, behavioral translation exercises, where I’m translating the vision. Don [00:08:23] So the CEO states a vision for the company. Okay, what does that mean for the marketing department? What does that mean for the accounting department? What does that mean for pickers in the warehouse? And we want to translate that vision into behaviors that we need people to be doing so they have, f
23 minutes | a year ago
36. Onboarding Success
Today’s show is about Onboarding Success. Listen to the show on iTunes, Spotify, Stitcher and Google Play. One of the first things I would suggest for managers when hiring someone is just the importance of the first day, what happens to that person on day one. Don [00:00:13] My name is Don Rheem, CEO of E3 Solutions and author of the book, “Thrive By Design: The Neuroscience That Drives High-Performance Cultures.” Don [00:00:23] I speak across North America on the neuroscience of engagement and I’m passionate about helping leaders at every level create engaging, workplace environments where employees feel safe, recognized and valued. Employees who feel safe are happier, healthier and more productive. Don [00:00:41] Each week, my team and I take on topics impacting managers and we offer solutions to your biggest workplace challenges. And, you’re listening to Thrive By Design, a podcast created by E3 Solutions to give managers, CEOs and leaders the tips strategies and tools needed to create an engaged culture at work. Kelly [00:01:05] Welcome. I’m your host Kelly Burns, vice president of client experiences at E3 Solutions. Kelly [00:01:11] As always, we tackle critical workplace themes each week with our resident expert and CEO Don Rheem. Kelly [00:01:17] Welcome Don and thank you for taking the time to be here with us. Don [00:01:21] It’s my pleasure Kelly. Kelly [00:01:22] As we heard at the top of today’s episode, this week’s focus is about creating a successful onboarding experience for new employees. Kelly [00:01:29] Last week we talked about laying the groundwork for a successful hiring process. But once those employees come on board, once they set foot in your office space you want the process of onboarding to go as smoothly as possible. Kelly [00:01:41] It’s their first step into feeling connected to the culture and it is a critical opportunity for managers and H.R. leaders to create emotional velcro with brand new employees. Kelly [00:01:53] However a recent Gallup report said that 88% of organizations don’t onboard well 88. Kelly [00:02:01] What is that statistic tell us and why is it so important for managers to create successful and strong onboarding? Don [00:02:06] You know, Kelly, I think part of the issue here is that so much energy goes into the hiring process, finding the candidate, interviewing them, looking hopefully you’ve done some testing and looking at the data and finding out if they’re a good fit. Don [00:02:18] Once they say yes, it’s almost like everybody breathes a heavy sigh of relief and they think the hiring process is over. They’re in. But actually, the hiring process is just the beginning. Don [00:02:29] And, in fact, it often creates expectations for the candidate. They’ve been wooed. They’ve been told they’re outstanding, they’re just going to be critically important. Okay, we can achieve great things now that we know you’re on board. So they’ve really been inflated. Don [00:02:42] They have this very high sense of their value but then they show up for the first day and it’s like no one’s home. Don [00:02:48] One of the first things I would suggest for managers when hiring someone is just the importance of the first day. What happens to that person on day one. Don [00:02:58] And, I want to give you just one example that I experience with one of our clients. I was talking to someone and this person was a mid-level manager leader in the organization and they had been hired relatively recently. And I asked, you know, what was it like to come on board? Don [00:03:13] And, I could see tears actually welling in her eyes and I said, “What happened?” Because I knew this was, obviously, it was a very emotional reaction. Don [00:03:21] And, she said, “Well, I had a bunch of places I could’ve picked but the folks here said that they really needed me, my expertise was going to be essential. They were so excited to have me be a member of their team, they even introduced me to members of the team.” Don [00:03:35] I said, “Okay, what was the issue?” She said, “Well, on my first day, when I got to work, no one was there. They were all gone on some kind of a trip or an outing.” Don [00:03:44] And, she said, “Even worse, I had to ask where my desk was from someone that really didn’t know. When I finally did find it, there was no computer. There was no greeting. There was nothing. And so for the first day I literally just sat at my desk with nothing to do.” Kelly [00:04:00] She’s gonna feel that emotion, of that first day, for a really long time. Even if the company does ultimately make up for it and she has that emotional velcro over time. That feeling doesn’t go away. Don [00:04:11] This was nine months later and it still evoked this incredible emotional response. First impressions matter. Kelly [00:04:18] And they’re so easy. It doesn’t take a lot of time to create a positive first impression. So we should walk through some of the key things that leaders can do. They don’t take a lot of time. They certainly don’t take a lot of money that can really help create a very positive first impression. Don [00:04:33] So when you think back, you’ve had several jobs in your career, Kelly, any particular first impression that really stood out to you? Kelly [00:04:42] I had one organization that I was really excited to join. And, maybe that’s a part of the conversation too, is that the candidate is making a life decision when they’re deciding to come on board with an organization. Kelly [00:04:55] It’s something they process, it’s something they talk to people they care about. It’s something that they spend a lot of time thinking about and investing in. And when they walk in the door, they want to know that investment was worth it. That it mattered to them. Did I make the right decision? Kelly [00:05:11] And there’s a lot of ways that managers can make sure the answer to that is yes. Kelly [00:05:15] So, I had an organization a handful of years ago where my first day on the job, I walk in and there is a company-branded mug and pen sitting on the desk for me, a welcome letter and signs, fun signs, pasted all over my office that welcomes me to the organization. Kelly [00:05:32] And when I walked in, I immediately felt like they were excited to have me. And it was such a great day for both me and for them when I was able to walk in the door and start contributing to that organization. That probably took 10-15 minutes of thought and maybe 10 bucks 20 bucks for them to do. And it still stands out to me years later that that’s how I was welcomed to that organization. Don [00:05:53] What was the expression on your face when you walked in? Kelly [00:05:56] Well I love surprises, so there is a whole lot of joy, a big shock and a lot of gratitude that I felt like I had made the right decision by choosing that company. Don [00:06:05] Yeah. And so that’s where the hooks and loops of the emotional velcro between you and the organization started to form. And those early days are really, really important. Don [00:06:14] Let me talk about some other things that managers should think about to make this onboarding process more effective. There is some research around once you’ve hired someone, what are some things you can do that make a difference? What stands head and shoulders above all the other, is this one issue, and that is giving the person a mentor.  Don [00:06:33] It should never be the person they report to. It’s not their manager but someone in the organization that they can go to to ask questions without fear of ridicule or asked if they are being silly or stupid or ignorant. It’s just really really important. Don [00:06:47] We need to understand that when an individual starts in a new organization, one of the most powerful initial experiences is that of isolation that of being alone. I don’t know these people. I don’t know the culture. Everything is alien to me. So they’re in this new relational ecosystem, if you will, and how can we help them ask questions to find out what’s important for them? Don [00:07:10] Or, not just ask questions but let’s say one of the core values is respect. And then they’re in a meeting early on in the first week and they see a leader do something that felt totally disrespectful to an employee or someone else. They need to be able to ask someone, is this normal? I saw this happen and it doesn’t feel right. Don [00:07:30] They need someone they can ask those questions of that feels totally supportive. So my recommendation is for a mentor you know in the first month. The mentor should meet with them probably every week after the first month. They could go to once a month after six months. It could be once a quarter but then I think for the rest of their tenure it could be at least once a year. They get to sit down with that mentor who’s saying, hey, how’s it going? What’s going on? Don [00:07:54] They have this continual relationship with someone that they can load share with. Kelly [00:07:58] When we’re in elementary school or middle school and you start a new school, one of the first things you think about is, who am I going to have lunch with today? What if they don’t like me? And, I don’t know that that ever goes away no matter how old we get. Kelly [00:08:10] As social creatures, we want to feel connected to somebody else. That’s why we ask a question in our survey about whether or not participants have a trusted co-worker that they can depend on. Kelly [00:08:20] It is so important for us to have that and a mentor from day one that they can count on and ultimately, obviously
22 minutes | 2 years ago
35. Hiring Well
Today’s show is on Hiring Well. Listen to the show on iTunes, Spotify and Stitcher. Don [00:00:00] The single most predominant criteria for a successful new hire is not their resume. It’s their fit with the organization, the culture. Don [00:00:14] My name is Don Rheem CEO of E3 Solutions and author of the book, “Thrive By Design: The Neuroscience That Drives High-Performance Cultures.” Don [00:00:24] I speak across North America on the neuroscience of engagement and I’m passionate about helping leaders at every level create engaging workplace environments where employees feel safe, recognized and valued. Employees who feel safe are happier, healthier and more productive. Don [00:00:41] Each week, my team and I take on topics impacting managers and we offer solutions to your biggest workplace challenges. And, you’re listening to Thrive By Design, a podcast created by E3 Solutions to give managers, CEOs and leaders the tips strategies and tools needed to create an engaged culture at work. Kelly [00:01:05] Welcome. I’m your host Kelly Burns, vice president of client experiences at E3 Solutions. Kelly [00:01:11] As always, we tackle critical workplace themes each week with our resident expert and CEO Don Rheem. Kelly [00:01:18] Welcome Don and thank you for taking the time to be here with us. Don [00:01:21] It’s my pleasure Kelly. Kelly [00:01:23] As we heard at the top of today’s episode, this week’s focus is exploring effective strategies for hiring well. Kelly [00:01:29] As leaders we have to hire new employees to drive growth in our organization. But we’re smack dab in the middle of a talent labor shortage. There are so many more jobs available than talented employees to fill those jobs. Kelly [00:01:42] And, it’s not just about filling jobs, it’s filling them well, with people who not only can do the job that you have laid out for them. But, also are a great fit for your organization, that will help progress your team culture. And, that won’t create negative or toxic environments once they come on board. That’s a really tough job for leaders to fill roles these days with the right people for the right culture. Kelly [00:02:04] I recently read a Robert Half survey that said that nine in 10 CFOs who are looking to hire or fill positions for their teams said that it is challenging. And, we know this. Kelly [00:02:14] It’s challenging to find skilled candidates for professional-level positions. And the average time it can take to fill a role is a month or more. That’s a huge amount of time to spin your wheels trying to find talented people to come onboard. Kelly [00:02:28] So what can we do to rethink the hiring process to make this easier on managers? Don [00:02:33] Well what I’m hearing out in the field as I talk around the country about engagement and work with our clients around the country, they wish they could find someone within a month. Don [00:02:42] Many of them are trying to fill positions and have been for months. Don [00:02:46] Something happened in the first quarter of this year that’s making this problem even worse. The U.S. economy grew at 3.2% in the first quarter, which is great for us economically. It means the economy is robust, there’s no sign of a turndown. It’s way above what expectations were. Don [00:03:02] What it also means is this competition for jobs is getting even tougher, because as we grow we need to fill positions to help us grow and it’s getting harder and harder to do that. So the struggle is two-fold. I need to find the talent but I need to find the talent that just doesn’t exist. Don [00:03:18] For the first time in our lives, Kelly, there are more unfilled jobs in America today—7.2 million—than there are unemployed people to fill them. This is part of the new reality of the future of work is talent is scarce. Don [00:03:32] So this puts an even finer point on the hiring process because you don’t want to hire the wrong person because it’s going to delay you, it’s going to take more time and it’s also incredibly expensive. Don [00:03:44] It needs to be done differently and the only way to hire, using science, is to test. Psychoanalytic testing, to determine fit because the single most predominant criteria for a successful new hire is not their resumé, it’s their fit with the organization, with the culture. Don [00:04:05] And we’ve identified four areas of fit. It’s fit with the job itself and that’s where the resume is probably the most helpful. Do they have the skill sets to do this work? Don [00:04:15] There’s fit with the team. So are they a good fit behaviorally, attitudinally for the team that they’re going to have to work with? Are they a good fit with the person they report to? Or, is that going to be like oil and water? Don [00:04:27] And, then, are they a good fit with the culture of the organization? Because you can hire someone who’s an expert in their field and brilliant but they can be just setting off cultural explosions all over the place because they don’t fit with the culture? They don’t appreciate the culture, they undermine the culture and now leaders are in this position of, gosh, I want this talent but, oh my gosh, look what they’re doing to the team and the culture it’s so destructive. Don [00:04:52] You want to eliminate those hassles and the best way to do it is for fit. Don [00:04:55] Now here’s the key thing about fit. It’s not just testing the individual. I mean that will tell you something about them but you also need to know what they’re what they’re going to fit into. Don [00:05:04] So, if you have a really successful team, for example, I would test those team members to find out what are the skill sets that make this group work so well. Where are the similarities and how we complementing each other? Don [00:05:18] And then, when you test a new hire, you look at those results and you see, does this person fit in with this group? And, here’s what we see time after time after time. The CEO or somebody falls in love, if you will, with this new candidate. Says, we’re gonna hire her, she’s absolutely amazing. Look what she did there and there and she just interviewed so well. Don [00:05:37] But the testing sent a different signal. No, she’s not going to be a good fit. She’s missing this, this and this and this is gonna be an issue going in. But you ignore it because this is the candidate you want. Don [00:05:48] You hire them and then within six months you have to fire them. Incredibly expensive and the testing told you exactly why you have to fire them. And, we find CEOs go through that process once and then they no longer ignore the data. Kelly [00:06:02] We often let our emotion overrule our logic and that is exactly what happens in situations like this. Don [00:06:09] This is what the research shows. So, one of the final parts of a hiring process is you bring the person in for the interview. There’s a final interviewer that typically makes an assessment. It might be a group decision but there’s usually one person that makes the final determination and they think they’re doing it based on what they see on paper and the cognitive information they pull in for the individual. Don [00:06:29] But FMRI research, functional magnetic resonance imaging research, tells a different story. The interviewer makes their decision in the first 3 to 5 minutes of the process of the interview and it’s made in the emotional centers of the brain, the limbic system. Don [00:06:44] And, essentially it’s like, I’m here talking to this potential candidate and my limbic system which of course doesn’t have its own consciousness but I’m going to paraphrase here. The limbic system says, hey, could I drive cross-country with that person in a two seater? Don [00:06:57] And, if my limbic system goes, yeah, they’re great, they’re innovative, they ask great questions, they’re curious, they have a great personality. That would be so much fun. That then radiates into the prefrontal cortex and we say you’re hired. Don [00:07:10] And then if someone asks why? You look down at a piece of paper and you start citing. You justify it through these things you saw on the resumé. The point is, the decision is an emotional one. And, it gets even more pointed than that. Don [00:07:22] There is research on how a job interviewer assesses a candidate. Let’s say it’s a 10 point scale and I give the candidate an 8.5. Then you track that candidate for two or three years and you come back and say okay, are they an 8.5 candidate? Don [00:07:36] This is an issue of correlation. What is the correlation between the job interviewers assessment of the candidate against the candidate’s actual performance over time? And you look to see what it is. And, you know what it is? Kelly [00:07:48] Probably not a lot. Don [00:07:49] Zero. There isn’t any. It doesn’t mean that you shouldn’t do the interview. I think you absolutely should. But when you make the decision based on the limbic systems, essentially comfort or lack of threat, associated with the individual, that is not a good criteria for whether the person will actually do well in the job. Don [00:08:08] Now we don’t do psychoanalytic testing. This is not a book of business for us, it’s not something we do. But, my gosh, we would never hire someone internally without doing it. Don [00:08:18] We use a couple of different tests right now. And, my favorite one and, Kelly, I know this is a favorite of yours. You helped us identify the right tool but it’s the Enneagram. And, finding out where they are in those nine positions on the Ennegram has turned out to
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