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The Underground Marketer Podcast
35 minutes | Jun 14, 2021
Episode 10 – The Unique Mechanism: How To Stand Out In A Crowded Market
How to Create an Effective Unique Mechanism That Helps Your Offer Stand Out Have you ever wondered why some succeed while others fail? Having the best product surely helps, but the actual secret lies in how you market it. In today’s episode, I’ll go over what a unique mechanism is and why you want to […]
113 minutes | Jun 7, 2021
Episode 9 – INTERVIEW: Alex Friedman Reveals How He Started & Built a Tutoring Empire From Scratch
Content Marketing & Hiring The Right People Were Key To Building a 6-Figure Business In today’s episode, I’ll interview Alex Friedman, the founder of The Brooklyn Math Tutors. Alex started tutoring casually in his mid-20s and soon started his own business from scratch. He had never thought of himself as an entrepreneur, and he admits […]
31 minutes | May 31, 2021
Episode 8 – Writing That Sells
Writing That Sells: How to Turn Words Into Cash Have you ever struggled to craft sales messages that get your prospects to take action? Indeed, until you learn its underground principles, you’ll have a hard time selling through writing. In today’s episode, I’ll demystify the secrets of writing that sells and show you how to […]
34 minutes | May 24, 2021
Episode 7 – How to Build Relationships & Network for Maximum Impact
Building Relationships: The Art of Impactful Networking Business and marketing are all about networking. You can’t make BIG MONEY as an entrepreneur or marketer if you don’t build relationships. In today’s episode, I’ll go over the importance of relationships and walk you through the most powerful techniques for becoming a pro at building impactful connections […]
31 minutes | May 17, 2021
Episode 6 – Mindset in Marketing
The Mindset in Marketing: How Changing How You Think Will Make You a Better Marketer In today’s episode, I’ll go over the significance of mindset when it comes to marketing success. Very often, entrepreneurs start from learning the technical aspect of marketing skills rather than getting into the right mindset first. The truth is that both of these are just as important. Luckily, I’ve got you covered! 3 Big Ideas 1. Adopting a growth mindset is essential for entrepreneurs, and the faster you master it, the further you go! Conversely, a fixed mindset keeps you from recognizing & bringing into the world the value it needs. 2. There are 3 mindset shifts great marketers must make: (i) Thinking critically and questioning everything. (ii) Adopting a growth mindset rather than a fixed one. (iii) Adopting an abundance mindset. 3. Marketers have one of the most complex jobs in the world: to understand what people want. Indeed, sometimes people themselves don’t know what they want. What helps marketers succeed in their endeavors is getting in the right frame of mind, and persevering to gain further and further insights into the collective consumer mind. Show Notes [01:23] Tudor gives one of the main reasons people struggle in marketing. Although many marketing books don’t even mention mindset (unlike sales books, which feature mindset prominently), it has a crucial impact on entrepreneurial success. [01:38] It all starts from professional skepticism. Critical thinking is where great marketers start. They always question their ideas and assumptions. They question everything! Marketing is both a science and an art where uncertainty and innovation are at home. Even when you feel like you’ve made the best possible decisions, keep your options open and always think of possible improvements. Looking for improvements, and always thinking about what you could have gotten wrong leads to better outcomes, even though it is uncomfortable. [05:40] Tudor explains how to deal with the uncertain nature of marketing. Although there are some rules in marketing, the only certainty is the constant change. You cannot know in advance with 100% certainty if a certain strategy or angle will work. It’s easier to pinpoint methods and approaches that don’t work than those that succeed. Finding what desire or pain points to focus on is the real challenge. Intuition, listening skills, empathy, and information vetting are just some skills you need to succeed. [08:21] Here’s the winners’ approach. A lot of market information you come across might be just random noise. Before running any marketing campaign, do the test, see what works and gather intelligence! Great marketers have no option but to question and test possible winning strategies. Doing marketing research naturally involves some costs. Remember that money spent in marketing is money invested in gathering intelligence about your market & your buyers, it’s not wasted money, even if it doesn’t return you a positive financial result in the short run. Learn from your mistakes. Every campaign that doesn’t work is a chance to see what does. [10:41] Tudor explains why having a growth mindset is essential for marketers. As there is little to no certainty in marketing, having a fixed mindset will pull you back. The fundamentals of marketing are simple. The magic, however, happens when you go into your market and open-mindedly look for the hidden gold out there! Start by switching from a fixed to a growth mindset and embrace failures. Stop being afraid of them, start questioning yourself and asking yourself what don’t you yet understand about your customers and you’ll see things in a completely different light. [14:06] Tudor invites marketers to approach every marketing campaign as if it were their first. Every time, try to start from scratch, from the most fundamental assumptions. What’s happening in this specific niche? What’s keeping these particular prospects up at night? How do your competitors try to reach them, and why? Start from the fundamental assumptions, ask the right questions, and build up from there. You must take your customers from where they are now, and show them how to get to where they want to be via your product. Having the right mindset gives you a wider vision in marketing, and that’s essential. [17:56] Tudor advocates for adopting an abundance mindset. Thinking in terms of scarcity holds you back from abundance. Money is not scarce, and spending it should not cause anxiety if you have the right perspective. Spending money on marketing is not an expense – it’s an investment! It’s the means of understanding your market. Ultimately, it helps you reach the customers who need your product the most. Holding on to money with the fear that your advertising campaign may not work out is flawed. Even a campaign that fails, as long as you did your best to plan it, and ran it smartly, you’re going to learn from it. Fail fast, fail often. [20:25] Why should you invest in marketing as if your business depends on it? Because it literally does. Without marketing, you cannot reach more customers, provide more value, help more people, and make your product or service available to a wider audience. [21:04] Tudor’s key takeaways about the right mindset for marketing success: Mindset is essential in marketing. To be successful in marketing in the long run, you need to undergo several mindset shifts: No. 1: Critical thinking. Always question everything, and be open to learning and improvement. This is where great opportunities come from. No. 2: Adopt a growth mindset. Markets out there are dynamic. Innovation moves them at a fast pace, and having a fixed mindset is toxic to your long-term success. No. 3: Abundance mindset. Wealth is built by investing in understanding your market, gathering the data, and drawing meaningful conclusions. It allows you to discover more about what your consumers need, and to provide it to them. Full Transcript Read The Full Transcript Introduction 00:00:03 Marketing, explosive growth, and revolutionary secrets that can catapult your business to new heights. You’re now listening to the Underground Marketer Podcast with your host, Tudor Dumitrescu. The one podcast devoted to showing new businesses how to market themselves for high growth. Tudor Dumitrescu: 00:00:24 Welcome to the Underground Marketer Podcast. Remember, this is the place where we deliver the real truth about marketing and explore big ideas that can help new businesses thrive and grow into big ones. I’m your host, Tudor, and today we’re going to discuss the very important topic of mindset in marketing. Mindset is not one of those things that we discuss very often when it comes to marketing. Very often, we approach marketing as a sort of skill that you just learn. And then you can just go ahead and do it and be successful at it, you know, but it’s not quite like that. And for example, the sales mindset is very important. You will struggle to find a well-known book on sales, which doesn’t talk about mindset when talking about the sales game, but the same cannot be said about marketing. You will find many books out there that don’t even mention mindset when it comes to marketing and paradoxically, Tudor Dumitrescu: 00:01:28 I think that that’s one of the main reasons why people struggle to learn marketing and to become good marketers. So the first thing, when it comes to mindset in marketing is that you need to understand that great marketers always question their ideas and they question everything. So questioning is essential to being successful in marketing. Marketing is not basically an exact science where we can tell beforehand with a 100% certainty that this is going to work, or this is not going to work. And because that’s how things stand, critical thinking is very important and critical thinking just means asking yourself fundamental questions about your assumptions. You know, basically putting your assumptions under the question, you know, which means that you ask yourself: Are my assumptions correct? And how do I know that they are true? Don’t expect to get certain answers, you know, because there is no certainty in marketing, but do we expect to think about these things. For example, when you are running a promotion and you’ve chosen a specific pain point of your target audience to center your promotion around, you have to ask yourself, why did you do that? Tudor Dumitrescu: 00:02:56 And is that the correct move? Is that the most intense pain point? Is that the pain point that’s going to get the most results when you make it the centerpiece of your campaign, or is there something better that you could address? And as you can notice, probably, and if you have a specific example that you are thinking about from your past, you will see this even better. You can never say Tudor Dumitrescu: 00:03:23 That there basically is a fixed answer to these questions. So these are open-ended questions. You can have a Tudor Dumitrescu: 00:03:33 Variety of answers. All of them can be correct. But the important thing is that you think through these questions and you question your decisions, and this leads us to the first important point about mindset here, and that’s that to be a good marketer, you need to be open to failing, and you need to understand that failure in marketing is not final and Tudor Dumitrescu: 00:03:56 Failure is actually the way that you gather more intelligence about the market and you learn about the market. So if you’re always in this, let’s say fixed mindset, and you’re always concerned about being great and getting results and all this. And that’s where your focus is. Then you’re going to give up some very important, learning opportunities basically, because what you should, Tudor Dumitrescu: 00:04:24 If you truly want to be great at marketing, you should never have a hundred percent confidence in yourself. You should always question yourself and the ideas that you have, and you should always ask yourself more questions about the assumptions Tudor Dumitrescu: 00:04:41 That you’re making. So the focus should not be on being great, getting spectacular results, though. Obviously, you do want to do that. Rather your focus should be on learning and truly understanding Tudor Dumitrescu: 00:04:55 What’s happening inside the market and inside the minds of your prospect. You know, because basically the more you want to understand what happens inside the minds of your prospects, Tudor Dumitrescu: 00:05:08 Perfect. The better able you will be to craft messages and campaigns that resonate with what your prospects are thinking about. So the first thing you have to understand here is that markets and biopsychology, they’re opaque, you know, so we Tudor Dumitrescu: 00:05:29 Never see them with a 100% certainty. It’s not like in physics, for example, where we can know exactly what is happening. Rather in marketing, we have some general rules of thumb, you know, heuristics for what works, but we don’t have any certainty. Tudor Dumitrescu: 00:05:50 This is not to say that, you know, marketing is just like an art, you know, and anything goes, anything could potentially work because that’s not true. Like we can have certainty in marketing about something’s definitely not working, you know, so we can, we find it easy to basically specify what’s not going to work, but the really hard thing in marketing is pinpointing exactly those things that are going to work, those things that are going to work best. You know, we have great difficulty doing that. So marketing really is a mixture of science and art form. So, you have bits and pieces from both in it. You do have some general rules and guidelines. Like for example, you want to identify the needs and the desires that are already in your buyer’s mind. And then you want to link those to your product throughout the campaign. Tudor Dumitrescu: 00:06:52 And really the campaign is meant to create this association between the ideas that your buyers have inside their minds and your product, right? Those desires need to be linked to your product. Your product needs to be seen as basically the fulfillment of those desires. That’s what you’re aiming for. But even with those general rules, you know, who will have a hard time pinpointing absolute certainty, that this is the desire that I should focus on, or this is the need that I should focus on. So these things are opaque and you need some intuition to make it work. You need some empathy, you need listening skills bills. You need to talk with people. And you also need to, in the end, analyze, know which bits of information you should discard and which ones are important and meaningful and you should keep because when you have a conversation for example, or when you’re listening to them, conversations with prospective customers, you’re going to hear a lot of things. Tudor Dumitrescu: 00:08:03 Some of those things and your questions are going to be more or less random, you know, and they’re not going to be very meaningful in actually helping you come up with a campaign that’s going to work. So, the bottom line here is that in marketing, you need testing. So, you need to learn the basic rules and the foundations, and then you need to actually learn how to test things in the market so that you can check what works best and you can gather intelligence. And here’s another piece of very important mindset information. So a lot of people, when they spend, let’s say a thousand dollars trying to launch a new product and it flops, you know, they get no sales, for example. They often jump Tudor Dumitrescu: 00:08:56 To think that that’s wasted money and that’s not necessarily so, because every time you spend money in marketing, you are basically gathering intelligence. Do you know? So you’re gathering intelligence about the market, Tudor Dumitrescu: 00:09:12 About your buyers, about how they react. And if nothing else, you learn what doesn’t work, you know, and it’s very important that when you get a failure, you know, you don’t just treat it as a failure and just throw it in the garbage can, and just forget about it. It’s very important that Tudor Dumitrescu: 00:09:31 You look back at that experience and you ask yourself, why did this campaign fail? You know, and this openness to learn and to grow and to become better is what’s actually going to enable you to create very powerful marketing campaigns. Tudor Dumitrescu: 00:09:50 And if you don’t do this if you have a fixed mindset and you basically think that you must make this as a success, and if you don’t make it a success, then it’s a total failure and a flop. You know, then you’re going to have a hard time just having the Tudor Dumitrescu: 00:10:08 Mindset that you need to push forward through that failure and actually go back into it and learn from it. You know, because in marketing, no failure is permanent and you’re always gathering data. You’re always learning more about the market and forming a clearer picture. And because we don’t have certainty in marketing, you don’t want to have fixed ideas, you know, Tudor Dumitrescu: 00:10:33 Ideas like this are definitely going to work or stuff like that. You want to be open to different possibilities and different angles that you could adopt in your marketing campaigns. The other thing here to add about mindset is that in marketing, you need to continually grow and growth is not something that you can easily quantify. It requires dedicated practice, you know, and yeah, Tudor Dumitrescu: 00:11:01 Dedicated practice means that basically you put in the work and you also pay attention to your work, you know, and try to always make it better and try to ask yourself questions. Am I understanding my buyers correctly? Are they feeling something at this point, for example, in the campaign that I don’t know yet? These kinds of questions can open new avenues, you know, this is how you actually get good at marketing and make it work. So I would say that much, like in sales. You know, in sales, they talk about enthusiasm, you know, and being enthusiastic when you approach somebody having confidence and so on. In marketing, they should talk about the growth mindset and the openness to always be learning, always be a beginner. The fundamentals of marketing, are simple Tudor Dumitrescu: 00:11:56 Marketing does not have complicated fundamentals that take ages to learn. You know the fundamentals are simple. Like, I mean, this is not rocket science. It’s identifying what people need, and then basically linking that with your product. So it’s quite simple if you think about it from this point of view at the same time, Tudor Dumitrescu: 00:12:20 And when you go into the details, you find that there is a lot of nuances there, you know, and there is a lot of space and opening for interpretation. For example, you can listen to the same customer conversation and you can draw different interpretations about the needs of that customer and their emotional reactions compared to another person who is listening to the very same conversation. And it doesn’t necessarily mean that you are Tudor Dumitrescu: 00:12:51 More correct than they are, or the other way around. It just means that there are always multiple points of view from which you can approach the same fundamental market. And if you want to become great at it this, you need to understand this and you need Tudor Dumitrescu: 00:13:09 To make that switch in your mind. You know, and don’t think of these things as failures. You know, don’t think of yourself as an already great marketer and think that you basically don’t need to work because you already have all the knowledge and you can just apply it and you can build winning campaigns either for your Tudor Dumitrescu: 00:13:32 Yourself or for others. Because if you think like that, you’re not going to be successful. And if you are, sooner or later you’re going to encounter a situation which is going to show you that you don’t understand the market. And then you will become depressed. You will Tudor Dumitrescu: 00:13:50 Start feeling that you suck at marketing and you don’t understand anything, and that’s not a good mindset to have, you know, so if you want to be great in marketing, you have to let go of that fixed mindset, adopting steady growth Tudor Dumitrescu: 00:14:05 Mindset. You know, your purpose is for every marketing campaign to start as a beginner, you don’t know the customer, you don’t know what they want. You don’t know what keeps them up at night. You don’t know any of these things. And Tudor Dumitrescu: 00:14:20 Your job is to take things from scratch, from the most fundamental assumption, and build up from there. Tudor Dumitrescu: 00:14:29 Identify what’s really happening in this market. You know, what’s happening with the buyers, what’s happening in terms of competitors and what they’re offering. Why is this strategy that one of your competitors is using working for example, and other strategies are not working? The more questions like this that ask yourself the better you will become when it comes to actually marketing your product or even marketing for other people. And actually, when you’re giving a product to market, this attitude is even more critical, you know. So if you’re getting hired by an entrepreneur, typically a lot of entrepreneurs are great salesmen. You know, they’re enthusiastic about their product. They really believe in their product. And they struggle to put themselves in the shoes of the person who may not know much about their product and may not have the same enthusiasm about it that they already have. And the challenge is of course, to take that customer from where they are to having that enthusiasm about the product and actually wanting to buy. Tudor Dumitrescu: 00:15:46 And the way to do this is that you have to approach this with a beginner’s mind. You have to go into it thinking that I don’t perfectly understand the market, but I’m struggling to get what is happening here. You know, what problems are these people having? What problems can this product help them solve? And the same thing, by the way, holds true for service. And when you start asking yourself these questions, you will realize that you see new angles, and that’s the key point here having the right mindset gives you a much wider vision in marketing. And that’s why mindset is absolutely critical. Somebody who has a fixed mindset, they have fixed ideas. They think they know everything. They’re not open to that new thing that can make a huge difference for them. And that’s why they will lose out. And there’s another mindset shift that you need to make when it comes to marketing. Tudor Dumitrescu: 00:16:53 And that you have to think in terms of an abundance mindset, not a scarcity mindset. A lot of people, when they try to market something, they think in terms of scarcity, they think that money is scarce and they have to try their hardest to get their hands on it, you know, pretty much as fast as possible because money is just hard to get a hold of. And that’s not true. You know, if you truly listen to people and you get a deep understanding of what’s missing from the market and what people are thirsting for, then you can actually craft the message and the marketing campaign, that’s going to get their attention. It’s going to motivate them. It’s going to get them interested, build up the desire in them. And then finally, it’s going to get them to take action and buy the product. You’re going to be able to do that, but you’re only able to do that if you let go of the scarcity mindset and adopt an abundance mindset. When it comes to money, spending money on marketing is not Tudor Dumitrescu: 00:17:59 An expense. All right, it’s an investment. You know, it’s money that you commit in order to learn more about your market. So that’s always happening, to build greater rapport with your customers and build your brand and all that Tudor Dumitrescu: 00:18:15 The other stuff. And also in order to actually make more sales and expand your market or expand the number of clients that you reach out to. If you have a scarcity mindset, then you will not be open to investing what it takes to make your marketing work. And Tudor Dumitrescu: 00:18:37 Unfortunately, this is the mistake that a lot of entrepreneurs who start new businesses, especially if they haven’t been successful in the past, this is a mistake that a lot of Tudor Dumitrescu: 00:18:49 Them make, and here’s how it shows itself. Basically, the entrepreneur starts a marketing campaign and he sets a very small budget and he thinks that that small budget, let’s say a hundred dollars on Facebook ads or whatever it is, is going to be enough to tell him if the marketing campaign and the angle that he has in mind Tudor Dumitrescu: 00:19:14 Is going to work. And of course, the news is that not going to be anywhere near close to the amount of data that you actually need to make an informed decision. And if you have a scarcity mindset and you hold onto your money, then you’re never actually going to begin the marketing campaigns that actually have the chance to succeed and have the chance to get you valuable data. And that’s a huge mistake because it will Tudor Dumitrescu: 00:19:46 Really be wasted money and wasted capital. You know, it’s sometimes it’s better not to start a campaign at all than to basically start a campaign with an insufficient budget because, Tudor Dumitrescu: 00:20:01 And insufficient budget just doesn’t allow you to gather the necessary data. And if you don’t have the necessary data, you cannot draw any reliable conclusion. You know, whatever conclusion you draw, based on that limited data, you have almost no certainty that it’s the right one. You know, so basically, the data is useless. You just need more data. And I would say that if you want to be successful in marketing your business, you need to be open to spending money. You need to have an abundance mindset to understand that what you have to offer is valuable and it’s worth a lot more than what you’re asking people to pay you. And if you start by having that belief, you’re going to do a lot better when it Tudor Dumitrescu: 00:20:48 Comes to actually launch successful campaigns. And the reason for that is simply because you’re actually going to be open to doing what it takes to be successful. So to briefly summarize, now that we’re getting towards the end of this episode, the idea here is that mindset is not very often talked about in marketing, as opposed to, for example, sales, where the mindset is very big. But the mindset is critically important in marketing. And you need several shifts in your mindset to be a successful marketer. Tudor Dumitrescu: 00:21:27 So, number one, it’s the critical thinking stuff that we discussed. You need to question yourself and question the assumptions that you’re making and question the knowledge that you have of the market. And always basically be open to learning new stuff. That’s the first shift. The number two-shift is basically the growth mindset versus the fixed mindset. As a marketer, you never have the final answers, you know. So it’s pointless to have a fixed mindset. It’s pointless to think that you already have the knowledge and you’re a marketing superstar. And especially people who have had some success in marketing, start to think of themselves as superstars in marketing, and they can do anything and they don’t need to work anymore. You know, they can just show up and the sales are just going to pour in and that’s how they think. And unfortunately that rarely or almost never happens for people. Tudor Dumitrescu: 00:22:28 And instead of that, you want to have a growth mindset. Your point is not to be a great marketer. Your point is to be great at understanding what’s actually going on in the market and inside the minds of your prospect because everything else is built on that foundation. If you understand that very well, then you can build out a successful campaign. So that’s the second factor, the growth mindset versus the fixed mindset. And last but not least, we Tudor Dumitrescu: 00:22:59 Have what we discussed as the abundance mindset versus the scarcity mindset. And as a marketer, you always want to be in the abundance mindset and you want to take meaningful risks with your money. So if you have an idea for a campaign, you’ve asked yourself questions about it. You’ve tried to question your assumptions, you questioned if your assumptions Tudor Dumitrescu: 00:23:27 Really represents what’s going on with your buyers and your competitors. And at the end of this analysis, you came to the conclusion that you’re basically correct, or as correct, as you can think at that point that you are, then you need to be willing to spend the money that you need to Tudor Dumitrescu: 00:23:46 Gather the data that you require for your marketing campaign, to be able to actually draw meaningful conclusions. And that’s where having an abundance mindset comes from because you realize that your product is valuable. And because it’s valuable, it’s worth a lot more to buyers than the money they would spend on it. And that’s what makes you willing to actually risk that money and risk that budget and run your campaign and get the data that you need to actually understand your buyers even better and improve your results and scale your business. So this would be the third mindset shift and all of them, if you make all these mindset shifts, I think that it gets you to the position where you have the understanding of marketing that we discussed before. When we were talking about marketing as an art or a science, and here I mean that you have the understanding that marketing is both. So it is a science in the sense that we can say almost for certain that certain things are not going to work and certain ideas are not going to work. Tudor Dumitrescu: 00:25:02 For example, you know, we can say pretty convincingly that if you try to market your product by listing just the features of your product, you’re not going to do very well. You know, if you don’t list the benefits and you just list the features, you’re not going to do very well, like think about it. Think about an advanced product that not many people know about. You know, so for example, you can take something that is innovative, you know, like for example, the iPhone was. Just imagine that instead of the overall experience of the iPhone and the benefits, the ease of use, and so on, you focused on the features, you know, so this actually happens. So in not only the iPhone, but before the iPhone with the iPod, the iPod was the first successful, or I would say widely successful, a small pocket-size MP3 player. But there were many other MP3 players before it, and which are also pocket-sized, but yeah, none of them succeeded. And if you look at why, the reason for it is that the iPod, basically the marketing materials ran something like you have a thousand songs in your pocket. And that resonated on a deep level with people, you know, a thousand songs in my pocket, that’s real, you know. I can almost see myself listening to that music a while on the go. Whereas if you just listed the features of the product, you know, like carry in your pocket, keep one GB Tudor Dumitrescu: 00:26:47 Of music or whatever it was on your device, and so on, people would struggle to resonate with that. So things like that, you know, like marketing based around Tudor Dumitrescu: 00:27:00 On features instead of benefits, we can say that it’s not going to work. Do you know? So in that way, marketing can be like science, you know, some things we just know that they’re not good, but if we look at Tudor Dumitrescu: 00:27:12 The other side of it, and we ask ourselves, what’s going to work, we struggle. You know, we struggle to find the right answers to that. So easy, a thousand songs in your pocket is just carrying the music around with you. That’s the biggest pain point in the case of the iPod, or was something else perhaps the biggest pain point, like hearing more music. That’s the question. Tudor Dumitrescu: 00:27:37 That’s the question that as a marketer, you have to answer. And when you’re trying to answer this question especially after the three mindset shifts we discussed, marketing becomes a lot more like an art, you know, and you’re actually probing the market and without any certainty, Tudor Dumitrescu: 00:27:58 Instigating for what the right answer is and what consumers actually want. And it’s a very difficult job, you know, as a marketer, you have one of the most difficult jobs on the planet. You have to understand what people desire and what people want. And the great difficulty here is that very often people don’t know Tudor Dumitrescu: 00:28:20 Themselves what they want. So if you have fixed ideas and that fixed mindset that we already discussed, you’re not going to do very well. If Henry Ford, you know probably the example, if Henry Ford would have asked somebody at the time, what they would want for transportation, they would have said a faster horse. You know, they would never have said a car. Tudor Dumitrescu: 00:28:42 So people are not very good at figuring out what they want. And as a marketer, you have to do this very difficult job. You have to talk with people, you have to understand their psychology, where they’re coming from. You have to put yourself in their shoes, show empathy, and listen to them, and basically focus on Tudor Dumitrescu: 00:29:04 Really understanding what’s going on in their psychology and in the marketing, in the market. Tudor Dumitrescu: 00:29:10 That’s underlying everything. And of course, the same thing is true. When you’re thinking about yours, the strategies that your competitors are using and how you can adapt to that, and so on. So I will Tudor Dumitrescu: 00:29:25 Close this episode now by saying that mindset is really important in marketing. And if you truly want to be successful, then you should do those three mindset shifts. You know, you should start thinking critically and questioning what you do. You should adopt a growth mindset. And lastly, you should adopt an abundance mindset. And if you do all those three things, you’re going to start thinking of marketing as both a science and an art. And you’re going to start becoming a more effective marketer, whatever you’re doing. Whether you’re working for somebody else or trying to market your own business. So stay tuned for the next episode. And until next time, keep growing your business and providing massive value to the world. And remember guys, you are the reason why we’re all growing richer. Our freedoms are expanding and we’re all living in greater prosperity. Until next time.
115 minutes | May 10, 2021
Episode 5 – How You Can Get Started & Make It Big In Marketing With Loan Mateescu
31 minutes | May 10, 2021
Episode 4 – The Dark Side Of Facebook Advertising
The Dark Side Of Facebook Advertising In today’s episode, I go over the dark side of Facebook advertising – little-known issues that can severely impact your success when advertising with the platform (and the same can apply to other advertising platforms like Google, for example). These are mostly things that you don’t find talked about online, or in marketing books. But the truth is that a lot of money spent on running Facebook ads is wasted. Today I’ll show you why this happens and how to outsmart the advertising game so you can get your business growing fast. 3 Big Ideas The dark side of online advertising is click farming. It means that your links, your ads, or your forms get clicked or submitted by fake accounts who have no interest in becoming your customers or in whatever you have to offer. As a result, the money you spend acquiring these leads or traffic gets wasted, while advertising companies still make big profits from it. (I am not suggesting that advertising companies allow this to happen on purpose, but their systems don’t always work as efficiently as they’d like them to). Click farmers are not necessarily out to get you, but in order to prevent themselves from getting detected by Facebook’s algorithms and security systems, they must click on random ads and fill in random forms, including yours. That’s why it’s better to use the “purchase event” and get Facebook’s pixel to work for you by bringing you more buyers if you can. Buyers cannot be click farmers – they would never buy from you. High-quality traffic is hard to come by and it’s incredibly precious. In the online game, you don’t want volume when it comes to traffic, but rather quality. Very often it’s better to look for unconventional forms of paid advertising, such as: buying media online or reaching out to influencers who have the audience you need than resorting to the traditional big players. Show notes [01:16] Tudor explains the main misconception about social media advertising. A lot of the traffic that comes from Facebook can be fake, meaning not from people who are interested in what you have to offer. Getting tons of cheap likes or traffic is useless. Traffic only matters if you reach the people interested in your product or service. Click farms can compromise online advertising. [03:07] What is click farming? Click farming consists of agencies located in places like Indonesia, the Philippines, and India, where people sit at a desk and click links on ads or sign up for free stuff. Facebook and Google are trying to fight back these agencies. Click farms can diminish or eliminate competitors’ profits and run up their ad costs. Because of click farms, money spent on Facebook advertising can be money wasted as you risk not getting any meaningful conversions at all. [05:12] Tudor explains how your Facebook ads can work against you. The algorithm starts working against you when many of your subscribers/visitors come from click farms and your Facebook pixel optimizes for traffic, clicks, or basically anything other than a purchase event. What this means is that the algorithm will bring you more of the same people who have already clicked your ad, or visited your page, or whatever the optimization event is. Even worse is that you might not even be aware of this! For instance, this happens when you set your algorithm to get you more of the people who download your lead magnet. If a large percentage of people come from a click farm, you risk getting more and more people who are not interested in your business, and your traffic quality spirals out of control. [05:51] Why doesn’t Facebook stamp out these click farms? Although Facebook (and Google) do their best to stop these click farms, it’s not that easy. Click farms use a lot of techniques to look like organic profiles, which makes them difficult to be spotted by Facebook’s detecting software. Therefore there is always the risk with any online advertising of wasting money that generates little to no revenues. [06:55] How to avoid the trap of click farms when using Facebook ads? Get the Facebook pixel to target people who buy from you, so you can make sure that you’re not having the algorithm work against you. The algorithm can work against you only when it gets you more views from click farmers… and that can happen if you optimize on clicks, or form submissions, basic actions that are free and cost nothing. Over time, using your pixel in a smart way helps the algorithm weed click farmers out. [10:50] An experiment you could run: Here is an experiment you could run to see how click farming works. Firstly, set up an empty Facebook page. Write in there something like “Please don’t like this page” or “Only stupid people would like this page”. Then, set some Facebook ads for $10 to get likes to the page. Run it worldwide. Let the algorithm decide where to get your likes the cheapest. You’d be surprised how many likes you could get for $10! When I ran this experiment, I got some very cheap likes, almost 1 cent per like! Then go ahead and check who liked your Facebook page, and look at their profiles. If you’re like me, you’ll notice that many of these likes come from profiles who have liked a TON of other things. Many of them are quite contradictory, for example, liking the Vatican Church and Satanism at the same time. Obviously, these likes can’t be real profiles nor can they generate any real engagement. That’s the big problem with click farmers. And you can see this for yourself, for just $10! [13:16] All in all, it’s a traffic quality issue. The dark side of Facebook advertising is that if you’re not careful, the quality of the traffic can be low, and you can end up wasting a large budget with little to no results. Tudor has seen clients who wasted budgets of $10,000+ with little to no results. Remember: if you sell something, only purchase events eliminate click farmers with absolute certainty and for certain get the algorithm working in your favor. If your goal is lead generation, going for strategic media buying or partnerships might be a better option. [15:57] What are the implications of poor traffic? Poor quality traffic messes up your data, and you don’t know whether your funnel is working or not. Basically, you can’t tell if the fault is coming from your landing page, from your ads, or a different source because the results are simply not meaningful. This creates confusion. And it cost you money, resources, and opportunities for real growth. [17:42] Tudor suggests a better alternative. When it comes to PPC, it’s usually better to look for unconventional forms of paid advertising, especially if you want to generate leads, and you’re not selling something where you can get a lot of purchase events triggered to get Facebook’s algorithm to work in your favor. Buying media and making deals with influencers is an option. In this case, make sure to find reliable partners and set purchase conditions to get quality traffic. [24:36] Tudor’s takeaways from today’s episode: Facebook advertising can work for some businesses, but it has a dark side, too. If click farming interferes with your ads running, your marketing campaign can be compromised. Companies like Facebook do their best to stop click farming and ban fake profiles, however, they do have a vested interest because they still make money even if the traffic they send you comes from a click farm. If you target a purchase event in your funnel, then you can use the Facebook pixel to get the algorithm working in your favor. However, it’s inefficient when aiming for lead generation or traffic, because the risk of getting the pixel to send you more and more click farmers is always there. High-quality traffic is hard to come by, and it’s incredibly precious. For that, it’s worth your efforts to find alternative ways to access the right audience for your business. Such alternatives can include direct media buying or influencer marketing. They could give you a much higher ROI. Full Transcript Read The Full Transcript Introduction 00:00:03 Marketing, explosive growth, and revolutionary secrets that can catapult your business to new heights. You’re now listening to the Underground Marketer Podcast with your host, Tudor Dumitrescu. The one podcast devoted to showing new businesses how to market themselves for high growth. Tudor Dumitrescu: 00:00:23 Welcome to the Underground Marketer, to this new episode. Remember, this is the place where we deliver the real truth of our marketing and explore big ideas that can help new businesses thrive and grow into big ones. I’m your host, Tudor, and today we’re going to discuss the topic of the dark side of Facebook advertising. So we’re going to talk about something that not many people know, and you’re not going to find a lot of written materials about it. And it’s mostly stuff that I’ve learned over the years, you know, by actually running Facebook advertising and doing a lot of testing to see what’s actually going on. And the main topic that we’re going to discuss related to Facebook advertising is that a lot of money that goes into running such ads is ultimately wasted. And most people don’t know that, but a lot of the traffic that comes from Facebook is basically not real. Tudor Dumitrescu: 00:01:32 You know, so for example, a lot of people say that a lot of, for example, social media agencies say that they’re going to get likes for your page, right? And they just run Facebook ads with the goal of getting likes. And most people think that if you just set the country to America and you put some interests, which match and which work well, that’s going to be enough. But the actual truth is that it’s not, you know, most people think that the risk comes that if you put a country like India, for example, and you’re going to get a ton of likes from there very cheaply, like one cent alike basically, but obviously that audience that you build like that it’s going to be useless. And I mean, those people are not actually going to engage with your page in any meaningful way. And ultimately the point here is not just to get likes, you know, it’s to reach out to people who would be interested in whatever your page has to offer and into what your business has to offer because ultimately you make money when you sell something to those people. And if they’re never going to buy and even worse, they’re never going to interact with your page or they’re going to interact sporadically, they’re going to be pretty much useless to you. And the real truth that many people know is that Tudor Dumitrescu: 00:03:01 Online advertising is plagued by something that’s known as click farming. And what click farming is, is that you basically have agents which are in places like Indonesia, the Philippines, India, and so on, where people literally are sat at a desk and all they have to do is they have to click links and click on ads and sign up for stuff and everything that’s related to that. So you could have people, for example, let’s say that you’re running an ad. You could have people who are clicking on it, who are not even interested at all. You know, they literally have zero interest in what you have to offer, but because Tudor Dumitrescu: 00:03:47 They work in a click farm, they would click on your ad. And these click farms, companies like Facebook, and obviously Google, they’re doing a lot to try to stop these. So by no means, am I suggesting here that Facebook is purposefully allowing them to basically steal your money and ruin your ad budget, drive your costs up. Yeah, I’m not saying that, but click farms are also getting better at avoiding detection basically. And Tudor Dumitrescu: 00:04:21 The people who actually use these click farms to basically either hurt their competitors, run up their costs, and stuff like that. So imagine that you are running some Facebook ads, right? And I’m your competitor. And I don’t like what you’re doing, and I really want to drive your costs through the roof on the ads. So I could hire Tudor Dumitrescu: 00:04:46 a click farm, and I could tell them, this is their Facebook page. These are their ads, you know, do whatever it takes so that you see their ads and start clicking like mad on them, you know, start filling their forms, submitting their forms, going through their funnel, whatever. And when I do that, the money that you pay Facebook to run your ads Tudor Dumitrescu: 00:05:09 Is basically going to be wasted. Do you know? So the algorithm is actually going to start working against you because you set your algorithm. For example, to get you more of the Tudor Dumitrescu: 00:05:20 People who download your lead magnet, for example, and the algorithm is going to do exactly that. It’s going to get you more of those people only that what you don’t realize Tudor Dumitrescu: 00:05:31 Is is that if a large percentage of those people are coming from a click farm, and they’re not people who are actually interested in what you have to share on your page or in your business, then Tudor Dumitrescu: 00:05:43 You’ll keep getting more and more and more of them because the algorithm is going to show your ads to them. So you may be asking, why doesn’t Facebook stamp out these click farms? You know, why are allowed to Tudor Dumitrescu: 00:05:58 Keep going and basically mess up the way YouTube ads (not YouTube, sorry, Facebook ads or Instagram ads, because they’re run by the same company) are performing. And you can sort of seeing that Facebook has a vested interest in this. Like obviously they want to stop them, but they’re not super interested because it does in the end, help them make more money. These people basically generate revenue for themselves. Sure. It’s revenue that is wasted from your point of view, but it’s still money in Facebook’s pocket. At the same time, Facebook does have the interest to make sure that its ads are not, you know, a complete waste of time. So by all means, I’m not suggesting that Facebook is doing this intentionally or, that you can make money with Facebook ads. Of course, you can make money. And the best situations for actually using Facebook ads are if you can get the Facebook pixel to target people who buy stuff from you, because if you can get the pixel to target people who buy stuff from you, then you can make sure that you’re not having the algorithm work against you by getting you more and more people who work for click farms, right? Tudor Dumitrescu: 00:07:19 Because those people they’re not going to buy anything from you. So that’s why a lot of e-commerce businesses, for example, can scale up very well with Facebook ads. You know, they can make a lot of money. You know, they sell a product, they set up the pixel so that it fires when there’s a purchase event and obviously click farmers – they’re not gonna buy, you know. So they get weeded out by the algorithm over time and only the ones who actually buy are left. So, that way can work. But if you are running Facebook ads to a lead magnet, you’re trying to generate leads, or you’re trying to get likes to your page, more engagement with your posts, or whatever. You are probably wasting your money. Even if you running ads in a country like the US you know, because click farms, they’re not stupid. They don’t want to get caught by Facebook and banned, right? Tudor Dumitrescu: 00:08:16 So they are smart. They’re going to use VPNs. They’re going to use different IPS, US-based IPS. And they’re going to create profiles, which look organic. And I mean, you may be wondering why would click farms, you know, just click on your ads if you don’t have a competitor who’s after you. You know, and I was wondering about this for a long time. And, you know, I’ve worked with clients. For example, we told the Facebook algorithm to target just the US, but then we actually figured out, using a more complex setup on a website that around 30% of that traffic was actually coming from countries like Indonesia, India, Pakistan, Bangladesh, and so on. So that traffic would never buy, you know, they were people who entered the funnel pretty much, but they will use this. And we did target everybody in the US. Tudor Dumitrescu: 00:09:18 And they did have at the surface level, an IP that appeared to be us, and their profiles for sure said that they lived in the US. But when we looked at search profiles in more detail, what we noticed was that a lot of those profiles, just, for example, liked everything, you know. They liked it, let me give you an example. So they liked Christian religious staff, and then they also liked stuff that was related to, for example, going to war and values that would not be considered very Christian. And they literally had thousands of things that they like. And it certainly didn’t look very organic to the eye, obviously to Facebook’s automated system, probably they are not caught, you know, they were smart about it. And I mean, these guys are doing this for a living, so they know how to get around the algorithms. And one way that they use to cheat the algorithm and to prevent getting caught by the algorithm, is that apart from clicking on the ads of the competitors that they’re paid to click on, right? So let’s say that I pay somebody to click on your ads, apart from clicking on your ads so that they don’t get caught by the Facebook algorithm, they need to click on a lot of other ads, right, which are not relevant. And in that way, they do not look suspicious. And I mean, it’s Tudor Dumitrescu: 00:10:48 An interesting experiment that you can run, but if you want, you can just set up an empty page, an empty Facebook page. For example, write on that page that “please don’t like this page”, or, “only stupid people would like this page” or whatever. You just write it. And then set some Tudor Dumitrescu: 00:11:11 Facebook ads for $10, for example, to get likes to the page and sell it worldwide. You know, just let the algorithm decide where it’s going to get your likes from the cheapest. And, you know, just Tudor Dumitrescu: 00:11:26 Even in India, you can say, “please don’t like this page” and just run it. And you will be surprised that you’re actually going to get a lot of likes for those $10. You know, at least when I tried this, I was Tudor Dumitrescu: 00:11:41 Able to get with subpar ads, you know, with quite bad ads, in my opinion, quite a few likes and do so very cheaply. And so obviously those likes Tudor Dumitrescu: 00:11:54 In my opinion, they’re not real, you know, like we can’t count those likes as actually delivered by Facebook in a way that is real and authentic and useful to a business. And if you actually monitor the engagement that you can get from such ads, you will also notice Tudor Dumitrescu: 00:12:15 That those people after they like your page and you almost never engage again with the age and they certainly almost never buy anything from you. So, that’s, that’s the big problem. And that’s really the dark side of Facebook advertising. And I mean, I’ve spoken with clients by running a direct response agency. And they came to me and they said, we’ve tried Facebook advertising, you know, even some very big clients. And they said we’ve tried Facebook advertising. We spent thousands of dollars on Facebook with literally zero results, you know? Yeah. Tudor Dumitrescu: 00:12:53 And they went from agency to agency, to agency, you know, thinking that the agencies are doing something wrong, right? So they just need a new marketer. And the new marketer can somehow magically turn the situation around. But of course that never actually happens in such a situation Tudor Dumitrescu: 00:13:12 because the problem is more systemic. And it’s, it’s based on the quality of the traffic and the quality of the traffic is not there. You know, so for me, I prefer Facebook when it comes to B2C clients, Facebook and Instagram ads for B2C clients. And Tudor Dumitrescu: 00:13:32 Especially for clients who are selling something and we, can track a purchase event, because remember only purchase events, in my opinion, are what you can actually use to get the algorithm working in your favor and eliminate all the click farms and all the fraudulent traffic that is out there. So that’s pretty much how it works and that’s where I recommend Facebook. But then for people who, Tudor Dumitrescu: 00:14:01 are running Facebook ads for lead generation and to get people through in their funnel, it can work, you know, like I’ve seen it work, but it expensive, you know, and you can probably get better traffic elsewhere through different Tudor Dumitrescu: 00:14:19 Mechanisms. One mechanism that we will discuss at some point is media buying and basically buying traffic from different websites, maybe even influencers, and making sure that that traffic comes much closer to real people and to organic traffic, which is actually what you’re after. Because Tudor Dumitrescu: 00:14:41 A lot of entrepreneurs, when they first start their business, they’re just like, Oh, I just want some traffic. You know, I just want to get traffic to my website, to my business, to my landing page. And they’re not Tudor Dumitrescu: 00:14:53 Really so concerned about the quality of the traffic. From my experience, this is a huge mistake. You will literally burn thousands of dollars to Facebook. You know, that you’re giving them for free to Facebook and for traffic, that’s never going to move the needle in your business. And there’s a bigger problem with this. And that problem is that this traffic will also mess up your data, right? So imagine if you get 40-50% Tudor Dumitrescu: 00:15:25 of the traffic or even more, in some cases you can get 70%, 80% of the traffic from a click farm, people that are never going to actually buy from you. You’re not actually going to be able to know if your funnel is working or not. Right. So imagine that you spent thousands of dollars building a funnel, setting up your landing pages, your opt-in page, or sales page, or whatever. Tudor Dumitrescu: 00:15:51 And trying to get some traffic to through it so that you see how your funnel converts. If you get all this poor quality traffic in, it will mess up your data. And you will not actually know if your funnel is performing or if it’s not performing. So a lot of beginner entrepreneurs, or even Tudor Dumitrescu: 00:16:12 People who are seasoned entrepreneurs, but they’re just new. When it comes to marketing online, they are not aware of these things. And they fall into the trap of resorting to something like Facebook ads or Google ads, just because these are the biggest companies and the biggest Tudor Dumitrescu: 00:16:33 Networks that allow them to reach the largest number of people. And with paid advertising, there is this risk, and it’s certainly very real. I would say that click farming is the number one problem that PPC advertising has online. And the number one reason why, at least in my case, and in the case of people I’ve worked with, I’ve seen results from Facebook ads decrease over time. And that’s what I think the reason behind this trend is. And I mean, Tudor Dumitrescu: 00:17:10 Let’s be real here. The social media companies like Facebook, or even search engine companies like Google, they’re not super interested in fixing this problem. Like they have a vested interest and it’s clear that they make more money out of this. You know, if you have all this basically fake traffic that they can charge you for, they’re going to make more money, you know. And we’re basically going to pay for that, even if you get nothing in return for it. So that’s why for us, a lot of businesses, it’s usually better to start looking elsewhere when it comes to PPC. Let’s say more unconventional forms of paid advertising. And Tudor Dumitrescu: 00:17:57 We’re going to discuss very briefly now, because we’re going to come back to them later, in a different episode. But basically what I have in mind here are media buys or deals that you have with influencers and with people who have access to organic traffic. Even in those cases, you have to be careful with the people that you choose, because let’s say that you come to my website and you think that my website would be good to send you traffic. And you ask me, you know, how much does your traffic cost? And I give you a price. I also have a vested interest from that position to send some fake traffic along with the real one. And here’s why. The more traffic I send you, the more money I make at the same time, Tudor Dumitrescu: 00:18:43 I can’t send you completely fake traffic, right? Because you’re not going to make any sales and you’re going to stop advertising with me. So it’s sort of like a casino, you know, the possibility of you winning and making money must be there. You know, but if I can also push up the fake traffic and the unreal traffic and the fake clicks and own money off them, they’re more money for me and obviously less money for you. So there’s also a vested interest that way. But if you learn who reliable partners are and you negotiate deals well, so that for Tudor Dumitrescu: 00:19:25 Example, you can pull out of a deal or you have conditions that purchases maybe down the line have to be maintained at a certain level over time. You know, you can set all sorts of conditions that basically ensure that you are more protected and you get better quality traffic. But yes, Tudor Dumitrescu: 00:19:46 The main thing here is that a lot of people are confused when it comes to traffic online. And this is the biggest reason why, so that’s why I call it the dark side of really Facebook advertising. I’m calling it Facebook advertising, just because it’s the biggest. And I’ve seen a lot of people fall in the trap, you know, where they spend thousands on such ads and they get zero or no returns for them. And yeah, it’s painful because you know, people Tudor Dumitrescu: 00:20:18 Have worked hard for their money. They’ve put a lot of value out there and to see this money go to waste is certainly not ideal. And I mean, it’s getting to the point where especially if you’re advertising to countries like the US, where the costs are very expensive, right? Because everybody’s advertising to the US, it’s a huge market. And the costs are very big, you know. Of course, depending on your niche, but CPMs can get to very high numbers. Traffic is very expensive. And if that traffic is not even real, then you’re actually wasting a lot of money. Even if let’s say only 30, 40% of that traffic is not real. And many people, if they don’t have enough money to invest from the get-go in Facebook ads, they’re not able to get the algorithm to work in their favor because here’s how it works. Tudor Dumitrescu: 00:21:18 Let’s say that you have a funnel that’s formed from an opt-in page. They opt-in for free, and then you have a sales page for something else. Many people, don’t have the money in the budget required to run enough traffic through the funnel. So that enough traffic gets to the sales page and they can use the purchase event on the sales page to trigger the algorithm and tell the algorithm, basically get me more of these people, right? So they don’t have enough money for that. And instead of doing that, they say, okay, so I’m going to get more of the people who reach the sales page instead, you know, so more of the people who opt-in and actually land on the sales page. And so they trigger the Facebook pixel to fire, you know, for people who opt-in and the algorithm gets them more and more of those people. Tudor Dumitrescu: 00:22:16 And of course, if a large number of click farmers get into this, you’re going to get more and more of them, you know? So you’re going to, you can get to a stage where you have huge numbers of people on the sales page and literally zero sales. You know, you can have thousands of people who have seen the sales page and zero sales. And, the mystery of it is that this can be a good sales page. You know, like the copywriting can be solid. You did the design there and the user interface can be solid. So literally there would be no real reason why your sales should be zero, but they are. And that’s because the algorithm is now actually working against you. And the same thing happens when you buy likes for your page. You know, if you get a lot of those click farmers liking your page, even if they show from a US IP and they appear to have US-based accounts and you get them to like your page. What’s going to happen is that Facebook’s algorithm is going to try to get you more and more of those people in it’s going to show your content to more and more of them. Tudor Dumitrescu: 00:23:34 So it’s actually a bad thing, and there’s no way for you to get rid of fake likes and other stuff that basically skew everything against you. So one thing when you’re thinking about marketing your business, that you need to be very careful of online, is making sure that you’re actually getting good quality traffic. You know, even if the traffic is more expensive and it’s actually harder Tudor Dumitrescu: 00:24:02 To get, you have to work harder. You know, it’s not as simple as just putting your card in it and running some Facebook ads. It’s more complicated. You have to negotiate deals with influencers and with website owners, and so on, with group owners for their traffic and so on. Even if you go for the harder route and the more expensive route, you can be much better off because you’re getting quality, the traffic of people who are hopefully interested in what your business has to offer them. So to Tudor Dumitrescu: 00:24:36 Briefly summarized at the end of this episode here, I want to say that there’s a dark side to Facebook advertising. It can work for some businesses, for sure. And Facebook isn’t, I’m not suggesting that Facebook is, allowing this Tudor Dumitrescu: 00:24:54 to happen on purpose, but it is happening. You know, I think that there is sufficient evidence to say that there is click farming, which interferes with the usual way of ads running and ads showing. And as a result, a large, or certainly a large part of your revenue spent on ads is actually getting wasted. And it’s obvious that companies like Facebook have a vested interest to keep the status Tudor Dumitrescu: 00:25:26 Quo going, you know, and not to fix it. And that means more expensive traffic for you and worse results out of it. So just be aware of it. And especially if you’re using Facebook for lead generation, you know, because if Tudor Dumitrescu: 00:25:43 You don’t use the Facebook pixel to target purchase events, right? So if you target a purchase event, no click farmer is going to buy anything, obviously. So if you target a purchase event in your funnel, then you can actually get the algorithm to work in your favor and that’s good. You can escape the click farmers. And I saw several e-commerce businesses, you know, scaling to the millions, using Facebook ads. So it’s certainly a possibility. However, it’s not something that basically you would want to necessarily count on. And it’s not Tudor Dumitrescu: 00:26:21 Something that you can count on when you’re thinking about generating leads. You can certainly count on it for e-commerce and for purchase events and for using the Facebook algorithm to get you more people who are likely to buy from you if you can trigger such events in your funnel. But don’t… like think carefully before you say that Tudor Dumitrescu: 00:26:45 I don’t have enough budget. So to test this funnel, I’m just going to set the pixel to fire on the opt-in and not on the purchase event on my sales page. And I’ll see what happens because you’re likely to get the algorithm to actually work against you, due to the click farmers. And that would be Tudor Dumitrescu: 00:27:05 Basically a summary. And I mean, the same thing holds true for Google advertising, as it holds for Facebook advertising and really for a lot of PPC and traffic that is bought and sold out there. So high-quality traffic is actually hard to come by and it’s extremely valuable. And it’s only going to become more and more valuable as, Tudor Dumitrescu: 00:27:30 Uh, click farming, you know, expands and becomes more proficient, especially with the development of AI, because a lot of people think that: Oh, with AI, we’re going to be able to run ads so much more effectively. And that can certainly be the case, but there’s also the danger that the click farmers are going Tudor Dumitrescu: 00:27:51 To learn to use AI, to avoid getting caught even better than then they’re doing it now. And the situation can certainly get a lot worse and, you know, online traffic can certainly lose a lot of value. And because both Facebook and Google and companies like them are very large, you don’t often hear Tudor Dumitrescu: 00:28:14 About this. You know you don’t see articles written about this. You don’t hear many people talking about this. And I mean, not many people have the experience that I have. Where I run Facebook ads or I’ve seen Facebook ads run for many different companies. And I’ve seen people who wanted to generate leads with Facebook, wasting thousands. You know, some people over $10,000 on ads with literally almost zero results. And in some cases, actually zero results. So this knowledge Tudor Dumitrescu: 00:28:48 Certainly exists underground. And if you want to have a successful business and to scale your business, to actually get high-quality leads, it’s probably better if you’re going to go the lead-generation route instead of straight-up purchase in e-commerce with a relatively affordable product that is sold to consumers, in which case Facebook advertising can be effective, I would personally shy away from it. Do you know? So if, if you’re running Tudor Dumitrescu: 00:29:19 A B2B business, for example, and you’re looking for customers or leads for your business, you have a free subscription that you offer. For example, I would probably start looking into other potential sources of traffic, and we’re going Tudor Dumitrescu: 00:29:37 To talk very soon in one of the next episodes. So stay tuned for that. And we’re going to talk about how to actually strike those deals. You know, how to buy media online and how to make sure that you’re getting good quality traffic, how to reach out to influencers and to the audiences that they already have to get your traffic so that you get much higher quality traffic that you can actually convert for your business. We’re going to talk about that in the next episodes. So stay tuned. Tudor Dumitrescu: 00:30:09 And until next time guys, grow your businesses and provide massive value because that’s ultimately increasing the prosperity of all of us and making all of us much richer and allowing us to live in greater freedom and with greater prosperity. So it’s thanks to entrepreneurs like you, that the world is becoming a better place. So keep going guys, until next time.
22 minutes | May 7, 2021
Episode 3 – Positioning, The Number 1 Factor In Marketing
What is Positioning and How It Can Skyrocket Your Business In today’s podcast episode, I’ll go over the concept of positioning and how it’s one of the most important concepts in marketing. In fact, positioning can make or break your marketing efforts. You can get everything else right, including having a great copy, but if your positioning strategy is not there you’re likely to fail. And the reverse is also true… get your positioning right, and you can make a lot of other mistakes, including having less than optimal copy, design, user experience, and so on. 3 Big Ideas Positioning is about creating new categories in your prospect’s mind. It’s not reality that drives sales, but people’s perception. If you have the ambition to grow bigger than your biggest competitors, then don’t attack them head-on, but rather seek to create a new category, be first in that category, and dominate it. The way to gaining a positioning advantage is starting from what is already there in the mind of your prospect. Typically this is something that your competitors have already put in there. So you start by repositioning the competition to illuminate a problem and then introduce the new category in which your product differentiation shines. However, most people start by trying to tell their prospects that they’re better than their competitors in the same category that their competitors already dominate. This is the recipe for failure. Being FIRST in the mind of your prospects is the key to dominating a category. This is because human beings create shortcuts to reduce their cognitive load and associate a category with the brand they already know best. When they hear your message, if you’re not first, they will always hear your message and immediately compare it with whoever was there first, who has the natural advantage. If you can’t be first, then try to be second, and oppose the first. Sort of like Mac opposes PC. And if you can’t be second, then try to reposition the entire category, and create a new one. Positioning will allow you to dominate your market, and extract huge profits from it! Show Notes [00:48] Tudor clarifies the main misconceptions entrepreneurs have about positioning. People tend to attribute the success of a marketing campaign to a lot of irrelevant factors. For instance, they hope to skyrocket their sales just by hiring a great copywriter. Or just by creating a great product and putting it on the market. Both strategies ignore the importance of positioning. [02:33] How does the consumer’s mind work? The average consumer sees something like 3,000 to 5,000 advertising messages per day. The human mind works by analogy. Our mind does the labor of sorting important messages from irrelevant ones. Our attention is drawn only to essential matters. People have their wants inside their minds, and marketers help them link those needs with a product. Hence they get people’s attention to keep reading/watching the ad. Efficient marketers position their products in the spotlight of consumer’s interests. [05:19] Tudor defines positioning. Positioning means that people already have products in certain positions in their minds. The first option that comes to people’s minds is their standard (Coca-Cola among cola drinks). Then, they automatically compare other options when they hear about them with the standard one, which has an inherent and durable advantage. [06:35] How can top positioning be achieved? A brand gets the number one position by getting mass adoption for the product. For instance, Coke positioned Coca-Cola as the first to take over the market. Facebook, however, was not the first social media platform but was the first to get mass-market adoption. It’s almost impossible to knock down somebody who was there first: the market leader should make too many mistakes, so others get a chance. [09:04] Tudor explains how to be great at brand positioning. Reposition your brand in terms of how the number one brand is positioned. Remember, people always compare brands with the number one – it’s the standard. Positioning is about taking advantage of it. For instance, Pepsi became successful by placing itself against Coca-Cola: Coca-Cola is the standard, the old, it’s for older adults. In contrast, Pepsi is for young, adventurous people. As Pepsi positioned itself against Coca-Cola, we know today about Pepsi and Coca-Cola. We don’t know about anybody else. Mac adopted the same strategy in their advertising, presenting Windows as the old, boring version and Mac as the innovation, for smart and cool people. The strategy that you need is repositioning the competition. [12:37] Where to start? Instead of starting from differentiating your product, start from what the customer already knows from the competition. Tell people what’s wrong with the competition. Reveal something, illuminate a problem. If the number one and the number two spots are already taken, you have to start a new category by repositioning the old one. Think how 7Up is the un-cola drink… neither Pepsi nor Coke. Remember: you have to be first in the customer’s mind if you want a positioning advantage. [18:05] Tudor’s takeaways for ambitious entrepreneurs: Acknowledge the importance of positioning for your business. Start by identifying what’s already in your customers’ minds – what are their standards for your industry? Reposition the competition: start by illuminating a problem with the competition and then introduce a new category as the solution. Ultimately, insert a category that you can dominate and create wealth within. Take your time to work the positioning out. A mistaken position can compromise all your marketing efforts since it translates into all the marketing assets that you use. Recommended Resources How Do You Make The Competition Irrelevant? Positioning by Al Ries and Jack Trout Blue Ocean Strategy: How to Create Uncontested Market Space and Make Competition Irrelevant by Chan Kim and Renee Mauborgne Full Transcript Read The Full Transcript Introduction 00:00:02 Marketing, explosive growth, and revolutionary secrets that can catapult your business to new heights. You’re now listening to the underground marketer podcast with your host, Tudor Dumitrescu. The one podcast devoted to showing businesses how to market themselves for high growth. Tudor Dumitrescu: 00:00:22 Welcome to the Underground Marketer. Remember, this is the place where we deliver the real truth about marketing and explore big ideas that can help new businesses thrive and grow into big ones despite the competition. I’m your host, Tudor, and today we’re going to discuss the topic of positioning in marketing and how you can position your business for success and for high growth. Now, positioning is one of the most misunderstood concepts when it comes to marketing your business. And the reason for that is that people tend to attribute the success of a marketing campaign to a lot of factors that in the end analysis, aren’t that important to its success. For example, the success of a marketing campaign can be attributed to effective copywriting, for example. And the words that are used in the headline, for example, or whatever in the ad. Tudor Dumitrescu: 00:01:27 And a lot of people make this mistake. And they think that if I just hire the right copywriter, he’s just going to turn out this fantastic campaign. And my sales are just going to go through the roof. You know, all I have to do is run some PPC ads on Facebook ads, some Google ads, and I’m going to be swimming in money. Whereas the truth of the matter is that it rarely goes like that. And of course, the element that is ignored here is positioning. And other people make the opposite mistake. They think that you know, if I just build this great product, that’s it, you know, I’m just going to get customers and I don’t have to do much to do it. You know, they’re going to come by themselves. I just have to put this product out there. Customers are going to love it. Tudor Dumitrescu: 00:02:16 It’s just going to spread by word-of-mouth advertising. And that’s pretty much it, of course, that none of these are really true and they’re ignoring the importance of positioning. So what is this positioning? Well, let’s start by saying that in today’s markets, consumers are swarmed by advertising. You know, we see something like 3,000 to 5,000 advertising messages per day. And so the way the mind navigates this is that it tunes out messages that it doesn’t consider important. And how does it decide if something is important and it draws your attention to it or not. And it does this by basically you holding certain things in the mind and certainly let’s call them categories, let’s call them statements, in the mind that identifies what it has to look out for, you know. And if it sees something that’s relevant to that, then it’s going to pay attention to it. Tudor Dumitrescu: 00:03:20 You know, that’s where the whole benefit of the first approach to marketing comes from, right? So a benefit is something that somebody already wants. You know, they have their wants inside their mind and you just show the ones to them and they identify with it. Hence they keep reading your ad or whatever it is. So that’s strategically and big picture-wise, that’s where it comes from. So when we try to position a product and I’ve learned a lot of this by practicing in the market, and also from this really great book that I recommend to everybody starting a new business, you know. And it doesn’t matter if you’re a new entrepreneur or, you know, an entrepreneur who has the experience, but you’re starting another business from scratch. Even if you’re not starting a business from scratch and you’re thinking about taking your business in a different direction, marketing-wise. I also recommend this book and that book is “Positioning” and it’s written by Al Ries and Jack Trout. Tudor Dumitrescu: 00:04:27 And it’s a fantastic read. And it goes over this concept in great detail. And I’ll cover some of it in this podcast episode for you in terms of the concept. So the idea is that when it comes to differentiating your product and giving people a reason to prefer it, the initial tendency that you have as a marketer and as an entrepreneur is to start with the difference, right? Your tendency is, to begin with, the difference and then sort of bringing the customer back to how the other option on the market does it and make them realize that it’s a difference. But that approach is actually not very effective. And the reason for that is that you’re not taking into account positioning. And positioning means that people already have products established in certain positions in their minds. Tudor Dumitrescu: 00:05:27 So if I ask you for example, what’s the first thing that comes to mind when you think of social media? I think that most of you are going to say Facebook. And if I ask you, what’s the first thing that comes to mind when you think of Cola, you’re going to say Coca-Cola. And if I ask you, what’s the first thing, when you think about operating systems, you are going to say Windows for most of you, some of you are going to the Mac OS, a lot fewer. So, why, why is that? Well, as I said, the mind has already established certain positions and the mind works by analogy, right? So it knows that Windows is number one and it knows that Facebook is number one and therefore everything else in that category is related to number one. Whenever they think about, let’s say Pepsi, they will automatically compare it with Coca-Cola. Tudor Dumitrescu: 00:06:29 So Coca-Cola is the standard that everything else is compared with. And how is that sort of position achieved? Like how did Facebook and Coca-Cola and all these companies achieve that position in the consumer’s mind? Well, that was achieved basically through getting mass adoption for the product, the first being the first who got mass adoption for the product. And yeah, and then you can consider Coca-Cola. That example is very clear. You know, Coke was the first to take over the market. You can also consider a more advanced example like Facebook. So Facebook was not the first social media platform. We had My space and we had High Five and a few other ones, but Facebook was actually the first to get mass adoption, you know, so My space High five, and so on, they remained valid for a small segment of people, for the early adopters, as they are known in marketing, but they never made the leap, you know, from the early adopters to mass-market adoption. Tudor Dumitrescu: 00:07:34 But Facebook did. And because Facebook got there first, they own that position in the mind. So the position is owned by getting there first. And the truth is that it’s not possible to, or it’s, it is theoretically possible to knock down somebody who was first, but it’s almost impossible, almost impossible. And the reason why that is because they would just have to make so many mistakes for you to even have the chance to knock them off. So, for example, there was Virgin Cola, which tried to compete with Coca-Cola, and of course, they failed, right? They didn’t succeed. That market was owned by Coca-Cola. Coca-Cola was the standard, right? So trying to go head to head with a brand that owns the number one position in the customer’s mind is bound to make you fail. And the reason why is because that’s just how the brain works, it will work by analogy. Tudor Dumitrescu: 00:08:39 It will always relate to the category that it already has established. It takes a lot of cognitive power from the human brain to basically establish a new category. That’s why we create these categories, these ladders of products, and hold on to them, right? And you cannot basically fight against that and win. The way to win, you know, is by doing some jujitsu and repositioning your brand in terms of how that number one is positioned. So we can take a look at some companies who took the role of let’s say, the second biggest in the industry. So for example, for Coca-Cola, that’s easy. That’s Pepsi, right? Pepsi is the second leader in the market, and then everybody else is pretty much non-existent. So how did Pepsi do it? So if we look at their ads and if we look at marketing campaigns, Pepsi started really being successful by positioning itself against Coca-Cola. Tudor Dumitrescu: 00:09:50 So Coca-Cola was the standard and they’re also the old, right? So what Pepsi did, which was genius, was that instead of fighting Coca-Cola well, head to head and basically try to say, we’re the real color with better color. And nobody would have believed that because Coke, Coca-Cola was already there first in the brain, and they would compare it with that. They would see a contradiction. So nobody would believe it. Instead of doing that, they repositioned Coca-Cola, they said Coca-Cola is not just the standard, Coca-Cola is the old thing. You know this is for old people, the new generation, you know, the generation Pepsi, that’s how the advertising actually went, drinks, Pepsi. You know, the young people, the young, full of life, people, adventurous people, they drink Pepsi, you know, Pepsi’s for the young. So they’ve basically repositioned the old category, the Cola category, and fractured it, you know, they fractured it in this case into two. So you have the Coca-Cola people, the not – Coca-Cola people, which are Pepsi. Tudor Dumitrescu: 00:11:07 And the same thing you happened, for example, with operating systems where you pretty much have the Windows people and the Mac people, right? The Windows people, Windows is first, and then Mac is second. Then pretty much there is just Mac, of course, there’s Linux as well, coming in third, but Windows and Mac dominate by far. So Mac was also positioned in terms of Windows. They started by repositioning Windows. How did the advertising go? So they were like, Windows is for boring people. Like you remember the ads, the Windows guy, the windows person, was this guy dressed in a suit, you know, a boring, old-style lacking in life, you know, lacking in energy. That what windows was repositioned as and Mac, well, it was for the new, the hippie guy, the fancy guy, the fun guy, the smart guy. And that’s how they created a position in the market. Tudor Dumitrescu: 00:12:05 So if you want to go head to head with somebody who already owns that position in your competitors, it’s not going to be possible. And your marketing is going to fail, you know? And it doesn’t matter that you hire the best copywriters out there. It doesn’t matter that you have the best product out there, right? That’s going, that’s the wrong strategy, and it’s not going to take you anywhere. So you actually need to adopt a different strategy. And the strategy that you need is to reposition the competition. That’s how you start, right? You start by asking yourself, what’s already there in the mind? Well, Pepsi and Coca-Cola are already there in the mind. So how do I reposition that? How do I start from, you know, instead of starting from what’s different about your product, we discussed, you start from what the customer already knows from the competition, you know, and you reposition the competition. Tudor Dumitrescu: 00:13:00 You tell them what’s wrong with the competition. You reveal something. Think to them that they don’t know about the competition or that they do know, but it’s not really clear. Mac, for example, revealed that windows are clunky, boring, stupid, right, and complicated. Whereas Mac is simple, elegant, easy to use, and for smart people. You know you don’t waste your time with the blue screen of death and whatever else. So that’s the right approach. You reposition the competition. And I mean, if you go into the Cola market and you find that the number one and the number two spots are already taken, what you have to do is that you have to break the category even further. So both Coca-Cola and Pepsi are in the Cola category and they’ve divided into two, the color category itself finds itself in the soft drinks category. Tudor Dumitrescu: 00:13:57 Well, you can segment the soft drinks category even more. And you can actually create a third here, which is what 7Up did. So 7Up said that this is the un-Cola soft drink, right? So the Cola for people who don’t drink Cola, all right. So for people who don’t choose either Pepsi or Coca-Cola, and that’s how you can create a new position for yourself, be first, because remember, that’s the goal. You have to be first in the customer’s mind, and that’s how you make it work. So whenever you’re trying to scale your business, and you have dreams of making this into a billion-dollar company, you know, you have to start over adopting this kind of thinking. This kind of thinking isn’t necessarily the most useful if you are always thinking that business is going to be a small part of the industry, but if you truly want, and you have the ambition to make your business the biggest in the industry, then you have to create new markets. Tudor Dumitrescu: 00:14:58 You know, there’s also another great book, which I often recommend to people which is called Blue Ocean Strategy. So Blue Ocean Strategy is absolutely fantastic as a book. And the reason for that is that it points to the fact that if you truly want to be successful as an entrepreneur, you have to find a new market. You have to open new markets, you have to create new wealth. You have to go to markets where profits are still possible, right? Because remember how economics goes, perfect competition means zero profits and markets. Over time, they tend to perfect competition. So the profits get wiped out. So you always have to create new markets and create basically innovation. That’s where new profits can be found. So blue ocean strategy is a great book. It’s by Chan Kim and Renee Mauborgne. I hope that I’m not mispronouncing those names too badly. Tudor Dumitrescu: 00:16:03 You can search for it. It’s a great read. And it actually explains to you how by creating an alternative market, and it can be combined very well with the positioning strategy and then positioning yourself as the first in that alternative, you can dominate it and you can extract most of the profits from it while it lasts. And I mean, that’s what a lot of companies have done, like think about the smartphone with Apple and how much profits Apple was able to extract out of the smartphone market with the iPhone, which really revolutionized the market or with the iPod, for music players, the first, nano product to get no or nano iPod like the product. The first, let’s say MP3 player, which was pocket-sized to get mass-market adoption. And it was all because Apple invested in its positioning campaign and it was the first in the market. Tudor Dumitrescu: 00:17:05 So it’s very important that you approach your marketing with this mindset. You’re going to find it very helpful. It is not great copywriting, or I don’t know what is going to be the biggest reason for your success. I mean, the fact is, and I know by running my direct response agency, the fact is that with the right positioning, even if you get a substandard copywriter to execute on that positioning and to implement that positioning so long as that positioning is clear, you know, even if he doesn’t pick the right words or the most effective words or the best ways to frame it and to explain it, you’re still probably going to get decent results. Whereas if you have the best copywriter in the world, but the positioning is all wrong, then you stand almost zero chance to succeed. You know, you’d need a miracle in order to be successful in those conditions. Tudor Dumitrescu: 00:18:04 So, positioning is very important. The strategy you have to adopt once again, I will summarize it, you know, start by identifying what’s already in the mind of your customers. And those are the things, things, the fact, the statements that you’re going to use. And first of all, to reposition the competition. So to show the problems with the competition and then to insert a new category that you can dominate and be number one. So that’s how the strategy works and that’s how you can pretty much use it to implement it in your business. Again, I recommend the Positioning book, a great read. It’s going to go into a lot more detail into all of this. And I also recommend the Blue Ocean Strategy. So they really approach the same problem, but from two different angles. One of them from the marketing angle, which is positioning, and the other one from the innovation angle, you know, and that’s what the Blue Ocean is about. Tudor Dumitrescu: 00:19:03 It’s about creating a value innovation. So an increase in value, both to the producer and to the consumer. So new wealth and basically launching a new market around that, that you can dominate. So the two strategies combine very well together, and you can use both of them to really take your business growth to the next level. And remember, this is for the most ambitious marketers and entrepreneurs, you know, who really want to break the sales charts and build million and billion-dollar companies. You know, it’s not for the small producer, the guy who just wants to make a few more pieces of bread, then his competitor across the street. So these are very powerful strategies, make sure that you get them right. You know the time that you spend doing your positioning, you shouldn’t be greedy with time. Tudor Dumitrescu: 00:19:58 You know, you shouldn’t try to get it done faster because a mistaken position is going to carry out through all your marketing. Because once you have your positioning, once you understand what’s already in the customer’s mind and how you’re going to reposition that and how you’re going to create a new category that you can dominate. Once you understand that you have to implement it through all your marketing materials, including in your unique value proposition and in your ads and your landing pages in everything. So if that’s bad, you know, and if that sucks, then you’re not going to get good results, even if everything else goes perfectly. So making sure that your foundation is solid is absolutely essential at this point, in order to get the sort of results that you expect out of your marketing. So that’s about it. Remember to start by finding out what’s already in the mind of your customer, the most effective way to do this is again to ask them, you know, you can talk with your customer, ask them, what’s the first thing that comes to mind when you think about whatever industry, and they’re going to have an answer, you know, like I asked you, what’s the first thing when you think about Cola and you said a Coca-Cola. Tudor Dumitrescu: 00:21:20 So, that’s about it. So really stay tuned for the next episode. And until next time, keep growing your business, providing massive value to the world and making everybody richer. Because that’s what you guys, entrepreneurs, do all the time. And that’s really, what’s taking the world forward and giving more freedom to all of us and the ability to enjoy a richer and more meaningful life. Until the next time.
30 minutes | May 6, 2021
Episode 2 – How to See Opportunities Everywhere
How to See Opportunities Everywhere and Make Your Business Thrive! In today’s episode, I’m bringing opportunities to the table. What’s their essence, and how to spot them? Entrepreneurs identify inefficiencies and take advantage of them by creating value & wealth. And I’ll explain how you can do the same. 3 Big Ideas Entrepreneurs make money by spotting opportunities and bringing buyers and sellers together. Just by brokering deals between other parties, people are making millions of dollars. You don’t need an absolute advantage over capital and resources to succeed. All you need is to put your comparative advantages to work to fix inefficiencies. Partnerships can create wealth for everybody involved and turn your business into hyper-growth mode. Show Notes [00:56] Tudor makes an interesting reference to the story of Midas. The story of Midas says that everything he touched turned to gold. Seeing opportunities in everything is like finding the gold that is already out there. There are opportunities in all the problems you have, all the market trends, what your competitors are doing, and what other markets do. You only need to train your eye to see them. To grow your business, (1) you have to find opportunities and (2) know to take advantage of them. [02:07] What are opportunities? Opportunities are the possibilities of win-win exchanges between market participants. These exchanges are positive-sum games rather than zero-sum. Trade is not zero-sum because we win when we make others win. [03:33] Tudor explains what competition truly is. The real competition is about who can most expand the resources that we have and thereby create new wealth and new prosperity for everyone involved. [04:02] Tudor points out the questions to ask yourself when looking for opportunities: Where is it possible for a win-win exchange to take place? Where are the inefficiencies I could solve? Can I help somebody do something better? [04:27] Tudor explains comparative advantage theory: Through trading and exchanging, all market participants grow richer, even if they don’t increase their productivity. Trading is not a zero-sum game because each of us is comparatively better at some tasks than others. Opportunity cost means that every time you decide to take on an opportunity, you must forgo others. Entrepreneurs must minimize it. Just by trading and exchanging with each other, we create more wealth for each of us. Looking for an opportunity means looking for asymmetries, where somebody is more efficient than somebody else at a particular task. [08:47] Tudor gives a practical example for finding opportunities. For instance, you have a product – an excellent analytics software, better than Google Analytics. Many people could make better decisions using your software. This win-win exchange would make everybody richer. But people don’t know about you – you’re just getting started. You have no audience, no trust, no visibility. And you want to grow fast & grow big. One idea would be to approach somebody who already has your audience but doesn’t have your product—for instance, a hosting company. Your comparative advantage is the product; theirs – the audience. Everybody gets more prosperous because of this trade: -> you (selling your product licensed), -> the company (selling your product to its customers), -> and its customers (as your product provides them better analytics). Ultimately, you access a massive number of customers and the goodwill the company has built with them. That’s how you tap into a huge growth opportunity. [13:05] Tudor gives a game-changing perspective on opportunities: To access opportunities, you need neither a product, an audience, nor money. By training your eye to spot opportunities, you can identify somebody who has an audience, and somebody else who has a product. Finally, by brokering a deal between the two of them (guess what?), you’re creating wealth. And, of course, you get a cut. [17:06] Tudor puts it bluntly about opportunity-seeking: The people who get the best rewards on the planet are the best opportunity seekers. They either (1) produce something, (2) invent something, or (3) broker a deal between parties. Just by brokering deals between other people, people are making millions of dollars. If you’re a newer business, the fastest way to grow is by partnering with existing businesses that already have access to your market. [18:52] Tudor highlights the importance of partnerships for growing your business. Partnering is a way to create a win-win exchange for both sides. Many people don’t realize that trading with you and buying your product will make their customers much wealthier. Your role is to advocate this. [21:22] Tudor explains how both employees and employers can be opportunity seekers. If you’re an employee, you can advance an opportunity to your boss and propose implementing it at no cost for them. Just ask for a cut in the profits made as a result. If you’re an employer, train your people from the very beginning to be opportunity seekers. If they create more value for the company, they can have a share of it. [22:06] Tudor’s takeaways from today’s episode: An opportunity is a possibility for a win-win exchange. Trade can be win-win and not zero-sum because of comparative advantage. Opportunities for comparative advantage where you can strike win-win deals exist everywhere. Partnerships can help you reach for that critical mass you need to make your sales explode. Great marketers bring buyers and sellers together and get them to trade because of comparative advantages. Having the vision required to see opportunities is a trait of great marketers and entrepreneurs. Recommended Resources Not a Zero-Sum Game by Manuel F. Ayau Full Transcript Read The Full Transcript Introduction 00:00:03 Marketing explosive growth and revolutionary secrets that can catapult your business to new heights. You’re now listening to the Underground Marketer podcast with your host, Tudor Dumitrescu. The one podcast devoted to showing businesses how to market themselves for high growth. Tudor Dumitrescu: 00:00:22 Welcome to this new episode of the Underground Marketer. This is the place where we deliver the real truth about marketing and explore big ideas that can help new businesses thrive and grow into big ones. I’m your host, Tudor, and today in our new episode, we’ll discuss the question of how you can find opportunities and see opportunities everywhere. And seeing opportunities is essential when it comes to marketing and to grow your business. That’s how it all starts. So do you remember the story of Midas where basically everything he touched, turned to gold? Would you like to have a similar ability to be able to basically find opportunities in everything and to find the gold that is already there in everything? Like, imagine for a moment what that would mean for your business. If you could start seeing opportunities in all the problems that you have, all the market trends that are going on, in what your competitors are doing, and even in what other markets that are related to your business are doing Imagine how much growth you could tap into and what that would mean for your business. Tudor Dumitrescu: 00:01:45 And I guess that for most of you, the answer is that you could scale your business much faster than you ever thought possible before. If you only learned to train your eye, to basically see these opportunities and then have the knowledge to take advantage of them. So first let’s start by understanding what opportunities are. So very simply, opportunities are the possibilities of win-win exchanges between market participants. So, whenever there is the potential for a win-win exchange, that’s an opportunity and it can be actualized by actually making the exchange. So the fundamental idea here is that any kind of trade or exchange that is win-win is not going to be zero-sum, but rather it’s going to be a positive-sum game and both parties are going to gain out of it. And this sort of turns the thinking that most of us have been trained to have, and that we’ve learned to have on its head because usually, we think of an opportunity as being something that where one party is going to profit and the other parties are going to lose out, or they’re not going to profit. Tudor Dumitrescu: 00:03:13 If we think of it as a zero-sum game, where one of us is going to win then, basically everybody else is going to lose. But that’s not really how our economy works. And our economy actually works by, having us win when we make others win. So really the competition, the competition is not over who can get access to the limited set of resources that we have, but rather who can most expand the resources that we have and thereby create new wealth and new prosperity for everyone involved. And that’s what the real competition has evolved around. And in order to take advantage of this, you first have to understand that that’s the case. You have to adopt this mindset of basically asking yourself, where is it possible for a win-win exchange to take place? Where are there inefficiencies? Where can I come in or, can I help somebody do something better? Tudor Dumitrescu: 00:04:17 And that’s how you’re going to uncover the opportunities that you’re basically looking for. So how does that actually happen in practice? Well, I would say that the reason why we trade exchange is not a zero-sum game and we can have win-win exchanges is because we are comparatively better at some tasks than others. So we can take a simple example to see how this works in economics. It’s known as a comparative advantage, and it’s a huge deal. Basically, it tells us that through trading and through the exchange, we can both be richer, even if we don’t increase our own productivity just by trading alone. And here’s how that happens. So let’s take a simple example. Let’s say that Bob can produce two pieces of bread or six chocolates in six hours, and I can produce one bread or two chocolates, in six hours. Tudor Dumitrescu: 00:05:24 So as you can see, Bob has an absolute advantage over me, right? So he can produce more of each, meaning bread or chocolates, in these six hours. However, I have a comparative advantage compared to Bob because basically in six hours I produce two chocolates or one bread. So for me, two chocolates are equal to one bread. Whereas for Bob bread is equal to six chocolates. So basically one bread, three chocolates, whereas I am one bread, two chocolates. What that means is that I have lower opportunity costs when it comes to making bread. I only have to sacrifice two chocolates to make one piece of bread. Whereas Bob has to sacrifice chocolates to make one bread. So basically if we were to work, each one of us, the six hours producing bread and six hours producing chocolate would end up with two pieces of bread from Bob and six chocolates from him and then one bread for me and two chocolates from me. Tudor Dumitrescu: 00:06:34 So that’s a total of three pieces of bread and eight chocolates. So now let’s see what would happen if we actually traded. And if we actually sorted our production so that we would maximize our returns here. So because I’m comparatively better at producing bread than bobbies, I can focus my 12 hours on producing bread. So I will produce two pieces of bread in 12 hours. Whereas Bob, can focus basically nine hours to produce chocolates and then just the rest three hours to produce bread. And the result of this is that he’s going to produce one piece of bread and nine chocolates. Right? So think about that. So now if you add the total products, we have three pieces of bread. So two from me, one from him, and then we have nine chocolates from him. So three pieces of bread plus nine chocolates. Notice that compared to the previous example, we have one chocolate extra. Tudor Dumitrescu: 00:07:40 So just by trading and by exchanging with each other, we have created more and more wealth for both of us. So we could split that extra chocolate, right. And we would both be better off. So this is what comparative advantage is. And there’s a really good book. If you want to go in more detail about this, it’s called Not a Zero-Sum Game and it’s by Manuel F. Ayau. I hope I’m pronouncing that right. And what this basically tells us in terms of our topic, finding opportunities, is that you have to look for these situations of comparative advantage when you or somebody else is comparatively better at a certain task than at another. So perhaps this seems very abstract to you. So let’s bring it back down towards. The point here is that when you are, I’m looking for an opportunity, you’re looking for these asymmetries, these imbalances, where somebody is more efficient than somebody else at a certain task, is comparatively better. Tudor Dumitrescu: 00:08:48 So let’s take a practical example. Let’s say that you have a very good analytics software that tracks website visitors very well. And it does it better than Google analytics, it enables the people who use them, the customers, to get a lot better data and make better decisions. So it has better reporting. So you have the product, but you don’t have an audience, right? So you don’t have anybody to sell this to, you know, nobody trusts you and you actually want to grow your business really fast. You know, you don’t want to start talking one-on-one with some people, you know, write some cold emails, make a sale here and there. No, you want to jumpstart that growth and get really, really big because you deserve it. You have a great product. And if you could just get this product into the hands of a lot of people, they would benefit from it. Tudor Dumitrescu: 00:09:46 They would create more value, you know, in ever-expanding circles. And we would all be a lot more prosperous. We would be in this win-win exchange where we’re all richer as the result of the trade. So how can you do this? Hosting company… So you are comparatively better to them simply because you have the product and they’re comparatively better to you. They have a comparative advantage because they have an audience. And so you’re going to trade. You’re going to create more wealth for both of you. So you could approach, for example, a hosting company, and the hosting company has to provide some sort of analytics to their users. But basically, this analytics is not very advanced. It’s kind of outdated and it’s not really good. It doesn’t even compare with Google analytics, but with your software, you know, if you licensed it to them, for example, or you gave them a cut out of sales, you know, they could create more wealth for them and also for their customers. Tudor Dumitrescu: 00:10:56 So yeah, you reach out to them and you try to strike a deal. You say, look, I will license this software and I will let you use it for all your, your customers. You know, you can offer it as an additional package that they can pay for. And, and basically, any additional customer that you onboard on this extra analytics service that you’re going to offer. And you can even tell them that I’m going to let you brand this under your own company if you want, whether you do that or not depends on your larger marketing strategy, but it’s certainly something that you could do, you know, so you basically tell them, take it, you know, sell it. And all I want as a result of this is a cut of the sales that you make, right in exchange for that not only will they let you license the software, but I’ll always make it better. Tudor Dumitrescu: 00:11:50 You know, I will improve it. I will take you, I will take the feedback of your customers and I will actually add those features that they want and make sure that you retain an advantage out of it. So just like that, you are able to basically structure a deal that will give you access to a massive number of cases, customers. And since those customers already trust the host, you’ll also get access to the goodwill that the host has built with the customers, right? You can, I certainly see how by spotting this opportunity, you can tap into a massive growth opportunity for your business that you wouldn’t be able to do, you know, just by running PPC ads or whatever, because that’s just an inch by inch approach, which is much, much slower. And whereas this is super quick, you can easily reach a vast number of customers, you know, and this, these kinds of deals and these kind of opportunities are exactly what you need to actually get there at growth to the next level and really power it up, you know, and your business reach that next level of success and prosperity. Tudor Dumitrescu: 00:13:04 And I mean to do this, the beauties that you don’t even need a product and you don’t need an audience and you don’t need any money. So literally if you are good and you train your eye at spotting opportunities, you can simply identify somebody who has an audience, identify somebody who has a product and then broker a deal between the two of them. And it’s the same thing. So literally, in this case, you could identify the guy who has the analytics software and the hosting company, and then brokers the deal between them and get a cut. And remember, you’re not profiteering from them. You’re actually creating wealth by doing this, you know, by identifying this opportunity. And remember, an opportunity is just the possibility for a win-win exchange. And by helping them actualize that possibility you’re creating new value that didn’t exist there before. Remember in our initial example with the chocolate, it’s that extra chocolate was created and your cut, your pay will come out of that. Tudor Dumitrescu: 00:14:08 So you’re going to create a lot of value for a lot of people by being able to spot opportunities and actualize them. And I mean, that’s what marketing at its core is going to be about. It’s going to be about having this eye, which is basically trained to spot opportunities and then bringing the buyers and the sellers. And it doesn’t mean matter if you are the seller or somebody else is the seller together and making the exchange possible. That’s how money is made. And that’s what you’re going to have to do in order to market your business or your product, or really to make money. That’s how it’s going to go. And remember here that the big thing is that you have to look for comparative advantages and not necessarily absolute advantages. Because many people, when they get started as entrepreneurs or in business, or even if they’ve been in business for a long time, tend to think that the guy who has the most resources is basically always going to win. Tudor Dumitrescu: 00:15:17 And they don’t even stand a chance against this guy because this guy already has massive amounts of capital and resources and he can do everything right. So how could they do any win-win exchange with them? And that’s actually a fallacy. Like, you saw in the example with Bob and I and the chocolates. Bob could outproduce me if you wanted to both in terms of pieces of bread and in terms of chocolates, but it was actually to his advantage to trade with me because I had a comparative advantage. I could produce one bread by sacrificing less chocolate than he could, right? So that’s why it was to his benefit to trading with me. And obviously, to my benefit to trade with him, we would both be richer and produce more results and more productive as a result of that. So these concepts are very important. And if you start applying them, whenever you think about your marketing and you start using them, and you start asking yourself, you know, which parties here have a comparative advantage, and what is that advantage? Tudor Dumitrescu: 00:16:28 You’re going to start seeing opportunities everywhere. You know, basically, you’re going to start seeing new ways to utilize already existing resources, to create greater wealth for everybody involved. And once you start approaching deals in this way, with your customers, and with your partners, you know, you can turn your business into hyper-growth mode. And what that means is that you’ll start gaining new customers and new wealth at a pace that you never dreamt of possible before. And it’s all the reward of being an opportunity seeker. The people who are best rewarded on the planet, are the best opportunity seekers. There are those people who can see what the market needs, and then they make those deals possible. Whether by producing something, by inventing something, by brokering a deal between two other parties, you know, whatever it is, there are certainly many people on the planet who are making millions of dollars, you know, just by brokering deals between other people. Tudor Dumitrescu: 00:17:37 And that’s how a lot of the wealth around the world is created. And in order to accelerate your marketing to the next level, you need to tap into growth and partnerships are going to be essential for this. So especially if you’re a newer business, the fastest way to grow is by partnering with existing businesses that already have access to your market. And they may even have access to capital that you don’t have. And that’s how you can put your growth on the fast track. You know, you don’t have to run some Google ads or whatever to grow your business one customer a week or whatever, that’s too slow, right? Like, think about it. How much will it take to grow like that? How much will it take to grow just by word of mouth, you know, from one person to the next, when you have a critical mass, that word of mouth growth, it can really take you to supreme levels of growth, right? Tudor Dumitrescu: 00:18:40 But until you reach that critical mass word of mouth has a very small effect, you know, and you need something else. You need the capacity to reach a large number of people preferably all at once. And that’s what you can do by partnering. Partnering is a way to create a win-win exchange for both sides and create wealth that both sides can access. And as you saw it, doesn’t take much. All you have to do is learn to spot a comparative advantage, a way for resources to be used more efficiently, to be allocated basically more efficiently. And if you can do that, you can profit. And it doesn’t matter if you just have the audience, you know, it doesn’t matter what side of the deal you’re on here, right? So you could have the audience, but you don’t have the product, or you could have the product, but you don’t have the audience, or you could have neither, right? Tudor Dumitrescu: 00:19:35 But you just spot the opportunity and you broker the deal. So it doesn’t matter on what side of it you’re on. But if you can do that, you’re going to grow much faster. So remember that on this podcast, we talk about these little-known ways to really take your growth to the next level. You don’t, we don’t want those, you know, to grow by one or two customers a week or whatever that slow. You know, it’s going to take you ages to expand your business and deliver all the value that you can deliver to the world. Because thinking about it every moment that you’re not reaching out to the maximum number of customers that you could be reaching out to is a moment when you are depriving those customers of value that they could have access to, but they don’t. And remember this because it’s, it’s very important. Tudor Dumitrescu: 00:20:30 A lot of people, don’t realize that actually trading with you and buying your product is going to make their customers much, much better. It’s going to create more wealth for them, and it’s going to be a win-win exchange. So you really owe it to your customers and you owe it to yourself and to the world to create more wealth and more production for everybody that is involved. And by becoming this person who can spot opportunities everywhere and like Midas, everything you touch can turn into gold. You can have this seemingly magical power and it can be all yours. You know, if you just train your eye and you have the vision required to see opportunities and to see ways for society to allocate its resources, even better. In fact, it can work even if you are an employee. I mean, so this, you don’t even have to already have launched your business. Tudor Dumitrescu: 00:21:32 If you’re an employee, for example, and you went to your boss and told them that you found this opportunity, and you’re going to, you want to do it for their company and it’s going to cost them nothing. You’re going to do all the other work that you did before. You’re going to continue doing it the same way you’re going to basically not use any of the company’s resources. And all you ask for this is that the new profits that are generated if they are generated, you get a cut, you know, what do you think your boss is going to say? No, you know, he’s going to say, no, no, I don’t want more money. I don’t want more wealth. I don’t want my business to grow more. Of course not. If he really understands that, that you’re going to do everything and it’s not going to come at a cost to him, then, of course, he’s going to say yes to new business. Tudor Dumitrescu: 00:22:22 So this idea of seeing opportunities and finding opportunities, you can really train it at every single moment. And if you’re building an organization it’s even more important to train it in your employees because of the culture that exists in many large corporations, where each employee, as a very small part in that it, and you know, that’s not the culture of a startup. That’s not the culture of a new business that is just making it happen. And you have an advantage because that’s not your culture because you can train your people from the very beginning to be opportunity seekers. You know, you can train them. If they create more value for the company, they can have a share of it. You know, and the law of innovative and smart companies is already doing this. You know, they are offering their employees a chance to share in the profits created by, a new innovation or buy new value that’s created within the company, precisely as a way to motivate them, to create this value and to take initiative because employees, we started from a position where they’re not really motivated to, and they don’t think that if they do something extra, they’re going to get rewarded for it. Tudor Dumitrescu: 00:23:45 And it all comes down to this scarcity mindset where we don’t actually realize that wealth is he’s not actually money. You know, that’s, that’s not what wealth is. Wealth is production, right? It’s services. It’s the, we have the houses that we have, the food that we have. And so on, we could have all the money in the world, but if no food was getting produced we would starve, you know, and the whole money in the world wouldn’t help us. So fundamentally wealth is about production, right? And it’s about the exchange of these, this production. And of course, that exchange happens via the mechanism of money because it’s just easier, but it could just as well happen directly, you know, by just exchanging one product in exchange for another. When you think about comparative advantages, you can also think about that kind of advantage because you may often find situations where two companies may want to trade the products that they have with each other, sort of barter. Tudor Dumitrescu: 00:24:52 And that’s another place where you can find opportunity and where you can create new opportunities. And obviously, everybody’s going to profit out of it. And we’re all going to be richer as a result of it. So to summarize a bit, what we’ve discussed about we’ve covered basically what an opportunity is. So an opportunity is a possibility for a win-win exchange, we’ve covered why trade and exchange can be win-win and not zero-sum. And that’s because of comparative advantage. And we’ve also seen that comparative advantage exists, even when somebody or one of the parties has an absolute advantage over the other, you know, so you can have a comparative advantage versus Coca-Cola, even though Coca-Cola can probably do and produce a lot more than you can in an absolute value term. So, these opportunities for comparative advantage where you can strike win-win deals exist everywhere. Tudor Dumitrescu: 00:25:55 And when you start seeing them, you gain one of the most valued capabilities as a marketer, you know? Right. And in order to do that, you have to actually start seeing them, you know, you have to train them yourself and ask yourself questions, how can these resources be used more efficiently? What do these people need that they don’t have? Does somebody else have these resources? Can I maybe link the two of them together? Or even in your case, what do I lack? You know, maybe I have a product. I lack an audience. Does somebody else have my audience? Is there any way that I can offer them what I have in exchange for the audience and stuff like a deal that’s win-win? And if you start thinking, like, I promise you that your brain is going to train itself, and you’re literally going to start seeing opportunities everywhere. Tudor Dumitrescu: 00:26:52 And I mean, the rewards that you’re going to get out of this are going to be huge. So, personally, you’re going to be a lot more capable to see niches and seeing chances that others are missing, you know, possibilities that others are not seeing. And then in terms of your business, you go into being able to grow at a much faster pace than, if you just did conventional, you know, marketing strategies like PPC or whatever. The rate of growth is just going to be spectacular. And this is one of the essential elements that can get you, because remember we talked earlier about that critical point, right? And the critical mass of customers, where you can start growing very effectively by word of mouth. Well, this can help you reach that critical mass, much faster through partnerships. And once you reach that critical mass, you will literally explode, you know, your growth will just go through the roof and this is the fastest way to do it. Tudor Dumitrescu: 00:28:00 I mean, you can grow slowly, slowly by PPC by bringing one client here and there. But you also have this resource at your disposal and you should make use of it. That’s what effective marketers do, effective marketers, remember, bring buyers and sellers together. And the reason that they can do that and they can get them to trade is because of comparative advantages. And they know how to exploit those comparative advantages to make everybody richer and to create win-win deals for everyone. And that’s what you can do as well. So, I leave you with that for now. And I’m just going to tell Tudor Dumitrescu: 00:28:42 You stay tuned for the next episode. And until next time, as I said before, keep your business growing and provide massive value to the world. And remember, you are the reason why we’re all growing richer. Our freedoms are expanding and we’re living in greater prosperity than ever. So it’s all thanks to entrepreneurs like you who are putting it all on the line and who are making it happen, who are creating wealth, literally out of nothing, you know, out of identifying opportunities and seeing opportunities everywhere and then tapping into them. Stay tuned.
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