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The Four Top

104 Episodes

49 minutes | May 27, 2022
Ep. 103: Wine Criticism Is Dead
What do wine critics and superheroes have in common? In Ep. 103 we answer this question, dig into the “bizarre notion of objectivity,” and spill the beans on which wine our critics think is the best kept secret.
51 minutes | Dec 3, 2021
Ep. 102: The Hurt Lingers. How Do We Heal?
Raw, uncomfortable, embarrassed, wounded, defensive, inadequate. These are the feelings many of us experience as we face the wine industry’s most sensitive issues, including sexism, racism, and inequity. To wrap up this season, we invited two activists to give us an assessment of how much progress has been made in recent years, which pain points still exist, and the work that remains to be done. Rania Zayyat is the founder of Lift Collective, an advanced sommelier, and Wine Director of Bufalina Wine and Bufalina Pizza. Miguel de Leon is a writer, podcaster, and advocate for BIPOC professionals in the wine industry; he’s also the Wine Director for Pinch Chinese.
13 minutes | Nov 26, 2021
Ep. 101: Bonus Episode — Maggie Henriquez on the Luxury Market
In this bonus episode, Maggie Henriquez, PhD, President and CEO of the prestige Champagne house Krug, joins us for a special interview. Katherine and Maggie discuss the beginnings of Krug and how she navigated the luxury market during the pandemic. We’ll be back next week with our final episode of the season.
49 minutes | Nov 19, 2021
Ep. 100: What Wine Gets Wrong About Indigenous Americans
In this episode, we hear from two wine-world leaders about their experiences as Indigenous Americans, and the ignorance they must contend with every day, from incorrect old stereotypes about alcohol to the appropriation of Indigenous art and terminology by wine marketers. Our guides in this conversation are Elaine Chukan Brown, a wine writer, Indigenous mentor, educator, and the founder of Hawk Wakawaka Wine Reviews; and Tara Gomez, winemaker at Kitá Wines and cofounder and cowinemaker at Camins 2 Dreams.
43 minutes | Nov 12, 2021
Ep. 99: Feeling Conflicted About Selling Luxury
In a time of desperate need, how does it feel to be selling hedonism? Is it possible to find peace and purpose in a career that underscores income inequality? Joining us for this episode are Cristie Norman, President of The United Sommeliers Foundation, Lead Sommelier at the Wynn Resort, Las Vegas, and CEO of the Online Wine Course; and Anna-Christina Cabrales, sommelier, founder of Sommation, and Education and Innovation Manager at Independence Wine & Spirits.
54 minutes | Nov 5, 2021
Ep. 98: Everyone (Except our Guests) Is Wrong About Sustainability
Why does Martin want to “make lighter bottles sexy”? Here are some hints: It has to do with protecting the planet, safeguarding our future, and rethinking the wine business. Get ready to throw your preconceptions and misconceptions onto the compost pile and join us in Ep. 98 for an eye-opening conversation about sustainable winegrowing. Here to help us find a sustainable future are Anna Brittain, a sustainability advocate and Executive Director of Napa Green; and Sandra Taylor, founder and President of Sustainable Business International, Falk Professor of Socially Responsible Business at Chatham University, and founder of Fine Wine Divas.
54 minutes | Oct 29, 2021
Ep. 97: The Vineyard Stories You Haven’t Heard
The stories you don’t hear in wine-education classes or read about in magazines are the most important ones out there. These are the stories of brutality and enslavement in vineyards—practices that continue to this day. Prepare to be shocked, surprised, and enlightened by Episode 97. Our guest Stephen Satterfield, the host of High on the Hog on Netflix, has worked as an activist on behalf of South African vineyard workers. Stephen is also a food writer, sommelier, podcaster, and the founder of Whetstone Media. Deborah Parker Wong is a writer, teacher, wine judge, and the Global Wine Editor of SOMM Journal and The Tasting Panel magazines.
57 minutes | Oct 22, 2021
Ep. 96: Battling Burnout While Working in Wine
What could possibly be stressful about working with wine? It turns out that a career centered around other peoples’ enjoyment and leisure is anything but relaxing. As news headlines blare dire warnings about “The Great Resignation,” we focus Ep. 96 on why burnout happens in the wine industry, and what can be done about it. Keeping us grounded and healthy this week are Laura Louise Green, a spirits educator, Licensed Professional Counselor, and founder of Healthy Pour; and Rebecca Hopkins, founder of A Balanced Glass, and Vice President of Communications at Folio Fine Wine Partners.
54 minutes | Oct 15, 2021
Ep. 95: The Nose Episode
What has the power to transport us through space and time with nothing more than a single sniff? The nose! In Ep. 95 we discuss the ways in which COVID-19 and technological innovations have changed our thinking on smelling. We’ll also explore the nose’s ability to dramatically enhance a whole spectrum of experiences, from our own memory to a glass of wine. Helping us sniff out the truth are Harold McGee, a food science expert and the James Beard Award-winning author of multiple books including Nose Dive; and Dr. Hoby Wedler, an entrepreneur, scientist, and activist.
49 minutes | Oct 8, 2021
Ep. 94: The Natural Wine Cold War
Is “Natural Wine” a category, a lifestyle, or just a buzz phrase? In Ep. 94 we hear about the Cold War between natural and conventional winemakers, question the possible quackery of so-called clean wines, and more. Our natural wine guides are Esther Mobley, an award-winning journalist and the wine critic at the San Francisco Chronicle; and Amanda Smeltz, a sommelier, poet, the newly-annointed European Portfolio Manager for Coeur Wine Co., and the author of Imperial Bender.
48 minutes | Oct 1, 2021
Ep. 93: Vinfluencers... or Thirst Traps?
Are social media “vinfluencers” bringing new consumers to wine, or simply devaluing expertise? What does it take to be a successful wine pro in the digital age, and what does authenticity look like in a world of polished Instagram feeds? In Ep. 93 we unpack these thorny questions and more, as we explore the ways social media and online personas have changed and shaped our industry. Influencing The Four Top are Jeff Graham and Mike Matyjewicz, online wine influencers and the founders and personalities behind the Sparkling Winos blog; and Paul Mabray, a wine industry digital futurist, and the CEO of Pix.wine.
58 minutes | Sep 24, 2021
Ep. 92: Money, Money, Money
What do toilet paper and Bordeaux have in common? Who’s making money in wine these days and how are they doing it? In Ep. 92, we dive into the economics of the wine world. We discuss the various ways the pandemic has upended the industry, and debate what changes might be here to stay. Our team of financial advisors includes Felix Salmon, Chief Financial Correspondent at Axios and host of The Slate Wine Club podcast; and Rob McMillan, Executive Vice President of the Wine Division at Silicon Valley Bank, and author of the annual State of the Wine Industry Report.
51 minutes | Sep 17, 2021
Ep. 91: Wild Wine Fairs
Do you remember when massive throngs of people gathered to drink wine together without a second thought? In Ep. 91, we reminisce about our most memorable moments from wine trade shows and consumer fairs with guest panelists Alpana Singh and Stevie Kim. We also discuss the ways in which these mega-events forge connections and propel the industry forward. Meet our panelists: Stevie Kim is an author, podcaster, and the Managing Director of Vinitaly International. Alpana Singh is a former Master Sommelier, entrepreneur, television personality, and the owner of Terra & Vine in Chicago.
56 minutes | Sep 10, 2021
Ep. 90: The New (Non) Rules of Wine Pairing
This week marks the long-awaited return of The Four Top! Welcome to our new season, with brand new cohost Martin Reyes, MW. In this episode we are joined by Regine Rousseau and Derrick Westbrook to discuss why “traditional” wine pairings (think Champagne & caviar) don’t work, and explore more abstract pairing concepts: Wine with music, poetry, fragrance and… CBD? Guest panelist Regine T. Rousseau is founder and CEO of Shall We Wine and author of Searching for Cloves and Lilies: The Wine Edition. Derrick Westbrook, an accomplished sommelier (and Wine Enthusiast cover model!) is founder of Samples & Samples, and owner of the Chicago wine bar Juice @1340. All sponsorship offers have expired.
49 minutes | Apr 9, 2021
Ep. 89: How To Appear Normal at Social Events
In the final installment of our "Best of The Four Top" series, we seek answers to today’s most pressing questions: Can absurd food and drink discussions get our social juices flowing? Can you nourish your relationship through cookery? And what's it like to be an overnight culinary celebrity? Please enjoy this apropos post-pandemic episode while we record our next season, which will focus on wine! Meet our panelists: Brent Braun is the celebrity sommelier and self-described “wine slob” at OK Omens and Post Familiar Wine. Zach Geballe is the host of the "Vine Pair" podcast, a wine educator, and the founder of Disgorged Wine. Chad Murphy is an assistant professor of management at Oregon State University College of Business and the author of “How to Appear Normal at Social Events,” under his cartoonist pseudonym, Lord Birthday. Ashley Rodriguez is the author of two cookbooks, hosts the Kitchen Unnecessary Podcast, and writes the popular food blog notwithoutsalt.com.
54 minutes | Mar 2, 2021
Ep. 88: Why Wine is Rock & Roll
We continue our "Best of The Four Top" series by asking: In what ways are music and wine related? Why are music industry veterans drawn to the wine industry? And why do creators launch "vanity labels," whether in music or wine? We're revisiting our conversation about ’80s and ’90s bands, fine wine, and everything in between. Meet our panelists: Courtney Taylor-Taylor is the lead singer, guitarist, and co-founder of The Dandy Warhols, and the owner of our recording venue, the punk-rock-fine-wine bar The Old Portland. Jay Boberg co-founded the seminal 1980s label IRS Records before going on to run MCA/Universal. He’s now the co-owner of Domaine Nicolas-Jay winery. Sheri Hood ran the American branch of the British record label 4AD and managed prominent bands before becoming the proprietor of The Pressing Plant wine label. Katherine Cole is our host.
51 minutes | Feb 12, 2021
Ep. 87: Cannabis in the Kitchen
As congress considers legalizing marijuana nationally, it's time to revisit our conversation about cannabis in the kitchen. We brought together a renowned cannabis cookbook author, the former editor-in-chief of Fine Cooking magazine, and a libertarian journalist for some serious talk about marijuana's role in the food world, and how the heck to cook with it (hint: it's not easy). Our panelists are Jacob Grier, a prominent mixologist who is also a political writer for publications such as The Washington Post, The Atlantic, and The Daily Beast; Martha Holmberg, CEO emeritus of the International Association of Culinary Professionals; and Laurie Wolf, cannabis cookbook author and owner of Laurie & Mary Jane, a producer of small-batch, cannabis-infused edibles. Our host is Katherine Cole.
55 minutes | Jan 25, 2021
Ep. 86: Reenvisioning Food Media for an Equitable Future
We continue our "Best of The Four Top" series with three journalists who have led the call for change through social media and solid journalism while raising the bar for food and beverage writing: Soleil Ho of the San Francisco Chronicle, Khushbu Shah of Food + Wine magazine, and freelance journalist Tammie Teclemariam. We learn about the subtle practices—such as whitewashing recipe titles and pigeonholing people of color—as well as overt pay discrepancies and hostile behavior that created a racist environment within culinary media.
53 minutes | Jan 12, 2021
Ep. 85: Diet Lies
The new year is here, we’re trying to stick to our resolutions, and the USDA has just released a controversial set of new dietary guidelines. So we’re kicking off our “Best of The Four Top” season with DIET LIES. We’re joined by a journalist who uncovered the fact that USDA food pyramids were actually making us fatter, a longevity doctor whose diet might just save your life, and a salumist whose cured meats could—yes!—be the key to good health. In short, everything we thought we knew about nutrition was wrong. Listen in as Nina Teicholz, Dr. Miles Hassell, and Elias Cairo of Olympia Provisions tell us why a salami a day might just keep the doctor away, and politics should stay out of science.
65 minutes | Dec 21, 2020
Ep. 84: Time for Change in the Wine Industry
The Court of Master Sommeliers, an elite and exclusive group of wine professionals, faces accusations of sexual harassment and assault, and reports of fostering a culture of racism. Our panelists discuss. Next, our guests examine the ways in which the culture of wine has changed recently, and the work required to further propel the industry forward. Our panelists are Julia Coney, contributing editor at VinePair and founder of Black Wine Professionals; Julia Moskin, food and dining reporter for The New York Times; and Martin Reyes, the world's first Master of Wine of Mexican descent, founder of Reyes Wine Group, and cofounder of Wine Unify Our host is Katherine Cole. This episode was recorded remotely in locations across the United States. Stay safe out there.
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