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The Best 5 Minute Wine Podcast
5 minutes | Oct 25, 2021
Michael Juergens Pt. 3
Welcome to The Best Five Minute Wine Podcast, I'm your host, Forrest Kelly, from the seed to the glass wine has a past. Our aim at The Best Five Minute Wine Podcast is to look for adventure at wineries around the globe. After all, grape minds think alike. Let's start the adventure. We're speaking with a man responsible for bringing vineyards to the country of Bhutan, the Kingdom of Bhutan. How big a country is it? It's actually not that big a country. It's about the size of Switzerland. So it's probably, I don't know, 300 miles North to South and 500 miles East to est. Anywhere that you are you can sort of look in every direction and see mountains. But like Everest is behind those. And so you can't necessarily see Everest from most places. There's just one cool pass of Dochula Pass. It's about 14,0000 thousand feet. It's between the capital city of Thimphu, where we have a couple of vineyards, and the Valley, where we have a couple of vineyards. And so I drive over that pass quite a bit. And when you're at the top, there's this outlook that you can see like 17 different Himalayan peaks that are all in the low twenties and it's really freaking cool. And when you're flying into Paro, you can see average when you fly in, which is kind of neat too. So tell me about some of the advantages of the country. I mean, the obvious one is just the water that is coming off of the glaciers and the snow runoff of the Himalayas. I imagine there are others as well. So the soil is super, super vibrant. And so, you know, if you sort of believe in some of this, you know, biodynamic philosophy where you sort of getting this balance with the local ecosystems and the biomes and the soil and the local wildlife, that's certainly part of it. They're on track to be the first 100 percent organic country, so they're really sort of against interventionist agriculture. It's more about trying to find how things will work in those climates. The water is entirely microplastic-free because it's just pure runoff from the Himalayan glaciers. So you have this really good water and the climate. There's a lot of different microclimates there that sort of stretch from jungle at the bottom of the country, at the south side, all the way up to glacier. So you have all these different climate zones within the country that they are they figured out over the years like, Oh hey, you know, Mandarin oranges grow really, really well down here, where red rice grows really, really well at 7,500 feet. And my hope is that that's what we're going to find with our grapes is that Merlot grows really, really well at 3000 feet and Riesling grows really, really well at 7,500 feet. So my guess is that that's where it will evolve over time, as it's done with some of their other crops. But that's, you know, that's a 50-year plan, not a 5-year plan, unfortunately. With a business plan like that, you've done your homework and it sounds very encouraging down the line. Can you tell me a little bit about the potential markets? One of the leading roses in India right now is Mateus. I don't know if you're familiar with Mateus, it's a Portuguese rosé, which sells for about $5.00 bucks a bottle here in the U.S., and in India, it sells for $29.00 a bottle. There's a pretty significant margin opportunity if you can capture that market share without paying, those import taxes and tariffs. So there's it's one thing to go after a unique area like Bhutan and say, Hey, I want to grow a Bhutanese cabernet here, and I want to try to capture the essence of Bhutan, and we're going to export this to London, and we're going to sell for $250.00 bucks a bottle. That is very, very cool and interesting to kind of the wine geeks of the world. But there's another piece to our business model that is super interesting, which is India has a billion-plus people and a burgeoning middle class, and they are becoming much more interested in wine. And every other country that's exporting wine to India is paying a pretty big tax and a pretty big tariff in order to sell there. Bhutan has a free trade agreement with India. Kind of like what we do with Canada NAFTA. And so I can sell wine to India and avoid those extra costs. So our model is going to be a really bifurcated model where we're going to make these high-end terroir-specific wines that we send to New York and London. But I'm also planning on making a more approachable mid-market type of wine that we're going to sell in quantity down to India. You know, we have the opportunity to alter, you know, the way the wine is consumed in India, as well as the way Bhutan farms. And it's a pretty broad social experiment in addition to just being a cool wine thing. Thank you for listening. I'm Forrest Kelly. This episode of The Best Five Minute Wine Podcast was produced by IHYSM. If you like the show, please tell your friends and pets and subscribe. Until next time pour the wine and ponder your next adventure.
5 minutes | Oct 18, 2021
Michael Juergens Pt. 2
Welcome to The Best Five Minute Wine Podcast, I'm your host, Forrest Kelly. From the seed to the glass, wine has a past. Our aim at The Best Five Minute Wine Podcast is to look for adventure at wineries around the globe. After all, grape minds think alike, let's start the adventure. Our featured winery is we continue our conversation withMichael Juergens and his wine adventure in the Himalayan hills of Bhutan. When all is said and done, what kind of wine are you looking to produce? We want to make wines that are going to be poured at the world'sfinest restaurant and cost $150 bucks and up. So $150 and above. I was reading where you said that you're not going to make plonk? I had to look up the term plonk. Would you consider that a derogatory term? No. I don't think plonk is necessarily derogatory. It's more that it's know kind of inexpensive wine. I think it's pretty much a British and Australian term. But you know, if you were going to drink, you know, have a nice glass of plonk, you know, I just want an easy drink in, you know, $4 glass of red as opposed to something that's super complex. It requires a lot of attention. So in your quest to become a Master of Wine, there are only four hundred and nineteen worldwide in 30 different countries. Has anybody else done what you've done and gone to a country and started a wine industry from scratch? No, not to my knowledge. No matter of fact, I don't think that there are very many countries left on the planet where you could conceivably start a wine industry from scratch. Most places already have been around having for hundreds or thousands of years. One of the things that really appealed to me about this project, you know, the Himalayas is not convenient to Los Angeles, which is whereI live, but the opportunity to really be given this palate, this beautiful landscape, this wonderful terroir with nothing and say here, decide what this should look like. You know, should we do ice wine? Should we do big reds? Should we do sparkling? Should we do hybrids? You know, what do you think is going to be the perfect winesfor Bhutan that will express a sense of place, and that's a really cool opportunity to get to do. I don't. Not too many people have gotten to do that. Oh, absolutely. What a great opportunity. So in the time frame, whenyou first went over there to run the marathon and you talked with them and you started this serious discussion, what are we looking at down the road from basically seed to vine? It took about two years from the very first serious discussions that we had. I had kind of broached the topic a couple of years before that, and it took a couple of years for the country to get to the point where they're like, Yeah, this seems legit. Let's get serious about trying to do this. And then once they had made that decision, it took about two years before we got the first six vineyards planted. And to your point, no, I absolutely was out there in the fields with not necessarily carabiners, but like digging holes and, you know, carrying plants up and down the hills. And, yeah, very excited. As you mentioned earlier, as you might expect, the Himalayas, very mountainous. I imagine there's a lot of prework that you had to do, you know, building terraces on the sides of mountains and things and prepping everything. But where are you in the stage as far as the vine progress? Six of our vineyards are in the fourth leaf and two of our vineyards are in the second leaf. So we actually had grapes last year, but the pandemic was going on and the borders were closed. We had grapes again this year, but there's still a lot of pandemic issues, particularly with India. You know, India has had quite the outbreak the last few months. And so Bhutan, because it shares a border with India, has been really strategic about what they let in and out of the country right now. So we'll have our first wine production next year. Though I imagine that a country with the ambition of becoming the first country in the world with 100% organic farming. Secondarily, that's going to help your wine-growing experience. Yeah, the good news is, is that Bhutan has a worldwide reputation for sustainable agriculture. They are really, really good farmers. In fact, many people come from other countries to Bhutan just to study how they get this kind of harmonious balance with the land. So the people there are really good at growing stuff. They just haven't grown vinifera before. And so, you know, it's up to us to kind of help them understand the nuances of wine grapes. We have a pretty big team over there. I think we employed about one hundred or so people this year working in the various vineyards doing stuff. And so that's been great that we have access to those local resources who are good and knowledgeable about agriculture. Sometimes it bites both ways, though, because they're in their minds. The goal is to make the most and biggest fruit possible. And that's not necessarily what makes the best wine. So we've had to kind of educate them on some of the nuances, but it's all going well. Thank you for listening. I'm Forrest Kelly. This episode of The Best Five Minute Wine Podcast was produced by IHYSM. If you like the show, please tell your friends and pets and subscribe. Until next time pour the wine and ponder your next adventure.
5 minutes | Oct 11, 2021
Michael Juergens Pt. 1
Welcome, to The Best Five Minute Wine Podcast, I'm your host, Forrest Kelly. From the seed to the glass, wine has a past. Our aim at The Best Five Minute Wine Podcast is to look for adventure at wineries around the globe. After all, grape minds think alike. Let's start the adventure. Our featured winery is. Hello. This is your captainspeaking. Welcome to Juergen's airlines, we hope you enjoy your flight to the Kingdom of Bhutan in the Himalayas, Bhutan is sandwiched between two countries India and China on our flight thisevening is Michael Juergens, Michael has helped plant vineyards at nine thousand feet to start the first winery in the Kingdom of Bhutan. So sit back, relax and enjoy your flight. Remember, if we have a bumpy landing, it's not the captain's fault. It's not the co-pilot's fault. It's the asphalt.Hi, this is Mike Juergens. I'm the author of Drinking and Knowing Things and a number of other Wine Books. I also founded the wine industry in the Kingdom of Bhutan in the Himalayas, and I'm a Master of Wine candidate.Ok, Michael, we'll get into each of those credentials, but first just doing a little bit of research on the Kingdom of Bhutan. They have 5,400 species of plants, compared to 17,000 here in the United States. They were one of the first countries to ban tobacco use. Archery is the number one sport. Health care is free. Where was the inspiration? What did the inspiration come from to start producing wine in Bhutan? Well, I had traveled all around the world visiting all the other global wine regions as part of trying to pursue my Master of Wine qualification. And when I went to Bhutan to run a marathon, it just looked like the kind of place that should have vineyards. You just had these magnificent terraced slopes with these beautiful crops.Everything I ate was the best. Whatever I've eaten, the best cucumber, the best carrot, like everything was just spectacularly good. And so that to me led me to believe that they had a vineyard somewhere. So I asked everybody, where are the vineyards? And turned out they didn't have any. And so I kind of said, you guys need to do this like starting now. And they listened.They listened to you. So you must have been very persuasive and shown them the potential of what could be right. Because Bhutan is, you know, looking at a map is and imagining the Himalayas. This isn't going to be the main thoroughfare for trade. Bhutan is pretty isolated in the Himalayas and so it remained pretty much on its own until, like the 1970s. You know, they just didn't have any Western influence. You know, the Silk Road never went through there, and so Vitisvinifera never got planted there. You know, the Roman Army never reached that far on the Silk Road didn't go through it. So I don't think it was a function of there wasn't, you know, a desire to to have it or to avoid it. Ithink it just never got there. And even today, you know, the country monitors who can go into the country. They don't want to overburden it with tourism. There just hasn't been a lot of Western influence in there, and it just took some stupid guy like me asking dumb questions like where the vineyards? And they sort of said, Huh,we hadn't thought about that, you know? So it wasn't that that this had never been broached before. It just was. I think I happen to be the right place at the right time where the country was a little bit more open to trying to make this work.How about the residents and the culture? Do they drink wine? There's a really big wine culture there, but it's all around rice wine. And so each family makes their special recipe, you know, secretly guarded family recipe for their rice wine, which they make in their kitchens, and it's considered to be very traditional.You show up in a Bhutanese person's house and they share a bowl of this of their rice wine with you. It's called Ara and the traditional way. It served in little bowls hot and they put an egg in it. And so like, you get like little pieces of egg floating in this little bowl of wine and you drink it. And they also import some bulk wine from places like South Africa and India, and they bottle it and they sell it locally so they have a culture of drinking and enjoying wine. They just have never produced it themselves from vinifera. Is it as mountainous as one might imagine when you hear the word Himalaya?It's very mountainous. Some of the peaks are, you know, obviously the ones we hear about the twenty-eight thousand twenty-seven thousand foot peaks. But then there's a whole bunch in the sort of eighteenthousand fifteen thousand nine thousand six thousand. I mean, it's just it's all hills, which is kind of cool for growing grapes because grapes like hills.Thank you for listening. I'm Forrest Kelly. This episode of The Best Five Minute Wine Podcast was produced by IHYSM. If you like the show, please tell your friends and pets and subscribe. Until next time pour the wine and ponder your next adventure.
6 minutes | Oct 4, 2021
Lakeridge Winery & Vineyards - Clermont, FL Pt. 4
We close out our conversation with Barry Hus of Lakeridge Winery and Vineyards, Florida's largest winery. I can imagine that staffing can be a bit of a challenge.I went to New York and recruited a vineyard manager that was highly experienced, and he's done wonders for our vineyards. I went to Sarasota. I recruited this top mechanic that had been in the industry for 45 years can fix any kind of bottling line equipment or anything that you have. And he's been the same thing. He's just he's helped us fix so much and saved us so much money with his expertise. So it's that kind of thing, that kind of recruitment that lends itself to providing a successful business, no matter what you're doing, you know, people make the difference. Having a winery the size of Lakeridge Winery & Vineyards, you've got a vast selection of wines. What are some that stand out that are your biggest sellers?Our most popular wines are our southern red and southern white. We also cross-label those as vintners, red, and vintners white at our other location. They're the exact same wines. That's 60 percent of our business. Those two are the main Muscadine wines that we produce one white, one red. After that, we make a bold blush. It's called Sunblush, and it's also Muscadine. And then we make a Chablis. We make a Chablis out of our white grapes. That's the driest of the Muscadine wines. They're both good sellers, the Chablis is great for cooking the sunblush. We call it the Goldilocks wine. It's a little red. It's a little wide, it's a little sweet, it's a little dry. You know, it's you don't know what to take to a party that's a great wine to take with you. And then becoming more and more popular are the specialty wines, and we're just getting to where we're having to ramp up our production of our sparkling. We do our own sparkling wine. We do two of them a white and pink. And we do. We still do them in the old champagne method. So we're doing the double fermentation on those. We make a port that's 100 percent Musk, nine, with a wonderful port. So those specialty wines are great. We also produce a Sherry. The Sherry is about 25 percent Muscadine. It doesn't lend itself to a great sherry. The white grape doesn't. So we're bringing that in and then blending it in with about 25 percent of the Muscadine. And then it produces a great, great Sherry after that. And then we have some kind of blends we do at what we call a proprietor's reserve. It's kind of a dessert-style wine. Again, it's a sweet wine. It's got a higher alcohol level than our standard table wine does. But it's not quite a port. It's gone over very well. Again, it's one of those sweet wines served chilled. Those are the main ones. Those are what we produce. Our main focus is on our Muscadine wines and our southern reds, southern wine by far our top sellers.It's been a pleasure talking with you and learning so much about Florida wine. If our podcast listeners are in the area or planning a Florida trip, what's the best place to go to get all the information we need? The best place to go to start is at our website, which is Lakeridgewinery.com And from there, you can get our hours and information about the weekends at the winery. Who's what bands are playing, what foods are being served, all that kind of stuff. If you want to call in, you can certainly do that. We have an 800 number. It's 800.768.9463. Be happy to answer any of the questions that you might have. Thank you for listening. I'm Forrest Kelly. This episode of The Best Five Minute Wine Podcast was produced by IHYSM. If you like the show, please tell your friends and pets and subscribe. Until next time pour the wine and ponder your next adventure.
5 minutes | Sep 27, 2021
Lakeridge Winery & Vineyards - Clermont, FL Pt. 3
COO Barry Hus, explains the adventure of a tour at Lakeridge Winery & Vineyards.So in our typical guided tour, when I say that they stay within the building, our main building is fairly large. It has a second floor, they go up into the theater. It's a church pew style. They sit and watch the film. It's about 10 minutes. It goes through the history of wine and winemaking in Florida and how we got involved in it. Then there are walkways that go across our production area and from the walkways. They can see our bottling line and our tanks and the processes and the pumps and everything and the workers down below. The guide would explain to them what's going on. We have cold stabilization going on or we've got bottling, going on, or whatever might be happening at the time. They then walk outside. We have an outdoor balcony on the back of the building that overlooks our crushed deck and the vineyard so they can see the vineyards from there. They can see the crushed deck and the equipment, the presses, pumps, and all that kind of stuff. And depending on the time of year, like right now, we just finished pressing the last of our grapes yesterday. So from August and early September, they can see the grapes being crushed. The rest of the time, they will see the vineyards in full bloom or dormant, you know, depending on the time of the year, and the guide will talk to them about that. They don't go out into the vineyard. And then from there, they come across another walkway mezzanine. Generally, Monday through Thursday, we're bottling. They can see the bottling line in action and then from there they go into the main part of the retail shop where our tasting counter is. Customers can get up close to the vines out in our festival area. They can walk right up to the vineyard and see the vines and the grapes and things like that.Pre-covid, in 2019, I see where Florida had over 130,000,000 million visitors, tourists. So out of those people, when they visit the winery, are you seeing some kind of commonality between the novice and the expert in your visitorship?Yeah, there's a commonality and they do run that full gamut, you know, from people who are very curious and have never seen it to people who have seen hundreds of them, you know, have been all over the world and seen them. I think the commonality is the surprise that something like this exists in Florida. Nobody thinks Florida is having any kind of wine industry at all, let alone something that's of this size. And then the flavor of the wine is so uniquely different from anything else that they're going to taste, and even people who generally are dry drinkers are surprised at it. It's a sweet wine, but it's more of a fruit-forward, kind of a sweetness and not like a sugary sweetness to it. We serve it chilled. It's very refreshing. It's something that goes well with the Florida climate.
6 minutes | Sep 20, 2021
Lakeridge Winery & Vineyards - Clermont, FL Pt. 2
COO Barry Hus of Lakeridge Winery & Vineyards explains the impressive details of Florida's largest winery. Whether it's food, cars, or houses, we're always looking for that wow factor. I still remember seeing my wife the first time in her wedding dress. So when people come up to your winery, can you tell me your wow factor? It's a big property. I think people are very surprised, first of all, that it's hilly. And when they pull into the property, it's kind of a Tuscan design, building, and layout of the property, and the vineyards surround the property on all sides. So when you drive up, you see a large open grass area and fencing that leads up to the large building that is the winery. People from all over the world come to visit us here because Central Florida is a very tourist-driven area. We hear a lot that it reminds them of Europe looking over the hillside, seeing the vineyards, seeing the style of building that we have. It's very reminiscent of things that you would see in Italy or France or things like that. So that's probably the biggest surprise that people are just shocked that something like this exists in this area and that is so large. We do have an outdoor area with large oak trees where we have music and a food court and an outdoor wine bar that goes on every weekend from noon to four on Saturdays and Sundays. And so they can come out even during the week, they can come out and get a bottle of wine, cheese tray or something like that, go out and sit at our picnic tables and just kind of enjoy the view. So it's very open. We like people to take a look around and see what's going on here and just kind of enjoy themselves while they are here. So it's not just kind of a walk into a retail shop, it's kind of a full experience.98LX4waVSSSCEMbvzbAKShow Less
5 minutes | Sep 19, 2021
Lakeridge Winery & Vineyards - Clermont, FL Pt. 1
Florida started in the wine industry back in the early days when the settlers came over here. They discovered that these Muscadine grapes were here in Florida, so they tried to make wine out of them didn't particularly like the flavor of it. They went ahead and brought over their own varieties from Europe. At one time, there were thousands of acres of grapes here in Florida. But they discovered that in this climate, they wouldn't grow. There's actually a bacteria. It gets in the vines, and it leads to what's now called Pierce Disease. And so, when all the vines died out after a couple of years, they eventually moved everything out to the West Coast. The wine industry kind of fell off here, of course, and it wasn't until, I don't know, the eighties early 80s when families like the Cox family started Lakeridge Winery they decided that they were going to reinvigorate the wine industry here, and they were going to make wine out of the native Muscadine grapes that grow here naturally. They failed at first, and then they kept trying and eventually got the formula right and the recipe right. And we're here today as Florida's largest winery. Now when you say the largest winery, does that mean just visitors, or is that production? Yeah, we're Florida's largest by both visitorship and production. We are about one hundred and fifty hundred and sixty thousand case a year winery, which is by far the largest here in the state that's selling grape wines. There are a lot of other wineries here. There's only; I don't know, twenty to twenty-four wineries in the state. It's not a big industry here, and many of those are fruit wines, mostly blueberry wines because that's blueberries grow well here. There are a few like us that do grape wines, but we're by far the largest.
5 minutes | Aug 30, 2021
Black Mesa Winery - Velarde, NM Pt. 4
We take another listener voice mail question. It's time, boys and girls for our listener voicemail. Hi all. This is Rochelle calling from Nashville, Tennessee. My question to you is why? Why wine cost as much as it does. Nashville, Tennessee. I bet you're a big Dolly Parton fan. All right, Rochelle, let's tackle your question, it takes about 12 grapes to make a bottle of wine and table grapes are two dollars a pound. Exactly. You can't compare apples to oranges to grapes. There's multiple layers that add to the cost of wine. Let's start off with real estate. You need oceanfront property, per se, to grow a vineyard. Then you factor in the cost of wine equipment. Let's just say you want to use one French oak barrel that will cost you anywhere from eight hundred and fifty two thousand six hundred dollars for one barrel. And then once the wine leaves the winery, it's got to go to a distributor that adds to the markup. Then it goes to the retail store. All of those things factor into the cost of wine. But at the end of the day, when you got your feet up and you're sipping a glass, it's worth it.98LX4waVSSSCEMbvzbAK
5 minutes | Aug 23, 2021
Black Mesa Winery - Velarde, NM Pt. 3
Well, New Mexico food is sort of a blend between Native American food and Mexican food is the best way I can describe it. Obviously, the red and green chili's are big, here and everyone's got their own recipe for that. So if you went to one restaurant, it's going to have different red and green in the spice level is going to be different than in the restaurant down the street. So our wine is definitely made for that sort of pairing. They're not really heavy either. So you know, some of the Napa cabs can run up 16 percent and ours are really right in between 12 and 13 percent. Just because they're lower in alcohol and because of the area, they're going to be a little bit higher in acid. So they're going to be very friendly like this. The kind of heat would go with slightly sweeter, would go great with that spicy food. So we've got actually recipes on our website. If you look under wine cider and food pairings, we'll have the hard cider, the ones that go to the hard, hard cider, the white wine, and the red wine. We've got 15. And it's working with that same chef that we use with our virtual tastings as well. So she participates in that. You're not cooking food on the property, right? We don't. But the chef that I've been talking about, she makes these makes Merlot popsicles. So we have those in our freezer. And then we also have this crostini box. She makes these homemade crostini and then blends them in with the local feta cheese and pistachios actually look pistachios from out of the dessert and local honey. So it's a really nice pairing with one of our whites. So when they get the crostini box, they get a half glass of white wine of their choice. But then other than that, we do have snacks. I mean, we try to stay local and we get local beef jerky and chips. And, you know, just something to nosh on with your tasting, Since you have such a large variety of wine and cider selections, I know it's going to be tough, but could you narrow it down to some favorites? There are two palates that we see on a daily basis. The ones that like the sweeter of the ones like the dry ones, the most popular for the dry wines. People really like the Montepulciano because it's number one at the vineyard.
6 minutes | Aug 16, 2021
Black Mesa Winery - Velarde, NM Pt. 2
Can you describe for me the New Mexico scenery as you drive up to the winery? So it is a gorgeous drive. I drive from Santa Fe and it's when I first moved out here, just like this is like a Clint Eastwood film. It's so rustic. You know, you see the Mesa's as we're driving up. Then you get into the towards the Taos, you know, as you come into the Rio Grande Valley just north of Velarde, you really you're right next to the river. So you've got the Rio Grande on one side and then you have these huge mesas on the other side that are all littered with petroglyphs
5 minutes | Aug 9, 2021
Black Mesa Winery - Velarde, NM Pt. 1
In this episode, we head to the largest hot air balloon festival in the world. The state has more cows than people. Seventy-five percent of the roads are unpaved. From the top of Capulin Volcano, you can see five different states. The state has more PhDs per capita than any other. And nearly 50 wineries are located in New Mexico. Hi, this is Katherine Lautenbach, marketing director at Black Mesa Winery. Black Mesa Winery is in Velarde, New Mexico. So, just about 15 minutes north of Espanola. Or if you want to go from north to south? We're about forty-five minutes south of Taos, that great ski valley from Albuquerque. It would be a little over two hours. So if anybody wants to take the Breaking Bad tour, then after that, they can head north. Yeah, we do it. We close at six. But you could probably make it as long as you're efficient with that. Breaking Bad to for sure.
5 minutes | Aug 2, 2021
Clearwater Canyon Cellars - Lewiston, ID Pt. 5
What does it take to win Pacific Northwest Winery of the Year? “The reason you become Pacific Northwest Winery is that you can't just have a one-off vintage has to be, you know, a long track record of great wines that have, in this case, crushed the competition, you know, year after year. And we've done that. And it's amazing for us to do that with these wines.”- Coco Umiker - Winemaker & Owner, Clearwater Canyon CellarsPacific Northwest Winery of the Year by Wine Press NorthwestClearwater Canyon CellarsCoco's Reserve, Rock n J BlendPlease follow us:AppleSpotifyGoogleStitcher
6 minutes | Jul 26, 2021
Clearwater Canyon Cellars - Lewiston, ID Pt. 4
What wineries does Idaho's Winery of the Year look up to?Walla Walla Vintners Reustle Prayer Rock VineyardsWine Press NorthwestPlease follow us:AppleSpotifyGoogleStitcher
5 minutes | Jul 19, 2021
Clearwater Canyon Cellars - Lewiston, ID Pt. 3
Co-owner and winemaker Coco Umiker discusses what it's like not having money yet still running a successful winery. What are the benefits of living in a trailer park for 250.00 dollars a month? "We were just like the sandlot kids. We were good at what we did because we understood the science so well. We knew where we could cut corners and where we absolutely could not. And we made wine styles that we knew we could do well and didn't try to force a square peg in a round hole."-Coco UmikerClearwater Canyon CellarsThe Best 5 Minute Wine Podcast
7 minutes | Jul 12, 2021
Clearwater Canyon Cellars - Lewiston, ID Pt. 2
Welcome to The Best Five Minute Wine Podcast, I'm your host, Forrest Kelly. From the seed to the glass, wine has a past. Our aim at The Best Five Minute Wine Podcast is to look for adventure at wineries around the globe. After all, the grape minds think alike. Let's start the adventure. Our featured winery is: We continue our conversation with Coco Umiker of Clearwater Canyon Cellars. The last episode you kind of touched on the topic of Brettanomyces. It's always hard for me to say it, let alone spell it. B, R, E, TT, A, N, O M Y C E S - I've never been good at spelling orally because it is so difficult to say. Iin the industry, a lot of times people refer to it as BRETT - B, R, E, TT, wine.In looking it up, it comes from the Greek term for British fungus. You could see when you tell people how the process works at a molecular level, you can kind of see their eyes glaze over. Oh, my gosh. Getting a chemical lesson here for you. That's where the joy is, right?Oh, my God. Yeah. I love I was thinking yesterday, actually, how just obsessed Karl. Both are with the continual learning and crafting of wine from the grape to the bottle. This has been a crazy summer and we may only have like a week to to carve off or maybe not even a full week. We might have like a weekend to carve off a somewhat of a vacation. And we're actually talking about going to a different wine area and checking it out. You would think when you make and grow wine every single day, you would want to go do something else on your vacation. But yeah, we're obsessed. And you know, that science of it to me is where the magic is. The most interesting manipulation is if you want to say that you can do in a wine as a winemaker to make different flavors, really pop to accentuate certain characteristics. Seemingly simple timing of adding oxygen timing on leaves and how you manipulate that leaves. So leaves is like all the yeast and little bits of skins and grapeseed that settle at the bottom of the barrel. You put that great must when you're done fermenting through primary fermentation, you put that grape mass in the press and you press it off and people either go to a tank or a barrel. I usually go to a barrel. You know, the press removes a majority of the skins and seeds, but not all of it. There's always little bits that get through the yeast. And a lot of times you continue fermenting in the barrel for a while through the fermentation and things like that. So when all is said and done, it settles to the bottom of the barrel in this delicious mud. It's kind of a red color usually because it takes on some of the wine color and yeast and bacteria and a little bit skins and seeds. And how you handle that leaves as a winemaker is a big dealBecause we jump back for just a second in the time frame. Was there a point because you are so young and you're starting out with this ambitious goal, was there a point when you said, wow, what kind of an epiphany we can make this work?Yeah, it's funny. You know, nobody's really asked me that question before. My family's been here since 1916 and I'm the fourth generation. 1916?Yeah. OK, so we're in Idaho Century Farm. Sometimes people ask me why the farms lasted and I believe it's because we've all been long-lived. My great grandparents started it. Grandma Irene ended up having to run the farm on her own. Actually my great grandfather died, but my great grandmother Irene lived to be 93. She passed it on to my grandfather, who lived to be 96. And then he was the one that Carl and I discussed this next generation with him about like the next hundred years, Grandpa, like, what did it look like for us? And then we came to him and my mom, too. So my mom is still living and grandpa and my mom really kind of handed the baton to my my husband and I. But when we asked them if we could plant that quarter acre, you know, I think most of Lewison probably thought we were kind of crazy. I was twenty two. I was like barely legal to even drink wine. You know, we didn't grow up farming. But my grandfather clearly understood that for any generation to take the reins of a farm, they have to go their own path. He had to do that when he took it from his mom. So when my grandfather took over the responsibility for the farm, he did not run it the same way my great grandmother did. He developed different crops. He developed a whole Hereford cattle operation here to supplement the farming operation. And that was all his thing. And he had to do some real convincing. I remember him telling me about how he had to kind of sell that to my great grandmother. So when we came to him and we were really excited about farming but wanted to do this different thing, he probably was the most supportive of anyone because he knew how that was. I mean. He knew that that was the reality, and so he was amazing and we planted those first signs, that quarter acre, and the major epiphany, I think when we knew we could make a go of it, was when we harvested the first fruit from that quarter acre when we harvested Marleau had that a barrel and then bottled that. And it was delicious. We were like, holy cow, we did this. I thought, oh, my God, yeah. I mean, it was like I mean, and Karl and I, we may have been young, but we knew good wine. And I think that's the key to being a great winemaker is it's like a skill. It's like being a good basketball player. You got to have game right. And you got to know you got to have a great palate and you have to know the difference between good wine, great wine and bad wine. And I you know, I we do have that. I will say we know the difference. And and even then when we were so young and when we drink wine the first time and, you know, really right after harvest sipping on that wine as it was a barrel, I was like, holy cow, this is going to be huge. It was right about then Karl and I decided to try to make an AVA out of this, which took a million years. But finally, got done.Thank you for listening Forrest Kelly. This episode of The Best Five Minute Wine Podcast was produced by IHYSM. If you like the show, please tell your friends and pets and subscribe, until next time pour the wine and ponder your next adventure.
5 minutes | Jul 5, 2021
Clearwater Canyon Cellars - Lewiston, ID Pt. 1
Welcome to The Best Five Minute Wine Podcast, I'm your host, Forrest Kelly. From the seed to the glass wine has a past. Our aim at The Best Five Minute Wine Podcast is to look for adventure at wineries around the globe. After all, GRAPE minds think alike. Let's start the adventure. Our featured winery is: We head to my hometown. It's where I grew up and at 10 years of age, delivering the Lewiston Morning Tribune newspaper spent many of Saturday mornings canvassing the neighborhood looking for lawn mowing and car washing jobs so that I could head to Lewis-Clark State College play pinball all day long. I also learned to hunt and fish accumulated hundreds of miles in the Army Corps of Engineer levee system. I also began my radio career here as a senior in high school and started working full-time at KOZE FM and AM. We head to the panhandle of Idaho to the city of Lewiston.My name is Coco Umiker and I am a winemaker and co-owner of Clearwater Canyon Cellars. Ok, Coco, you've really built Clearwater Canyon Cellars into something impressive and we'll get to that later. But where did this begin? Well, it really started with my love of science and strangely, it stretches all the way back to when I was a little kid. But I was 11 years old. I had cancer. And that ended up, you know, I being in hospitals a lot and around medical people. And so when I took off for college, I'm much better now. I'm good. Got through it in good shape. But when I went off to college, I thought, you know what? I'm going to be a pediatric oncologist and the undergrad premed program at the University of Idaho. They encourage students to do a double major in microbiology, molecular biology, and biochemistry. I got into it and I loved it.Wow. That's very ambitious, microbiology, OK? I could see how that could dovetail into winemaking is Louis Pasteur. You're kind of originated that and then molecular biology, seeing how the biological activity in and between cells and then biochemistry, the processes with living organisms, I could see where that would be kind of all-consuming with your time and your thoughts and your studies. But I'm guessing that's not the course that you ended up takingPartway through. I just realized that I wanted to do something more creative. I wanted to be outside. I wanted to be able to come back to my family farm in Lewiston and do something with that place. I never lived in Lewiston, I lived in Boise. I spent all my summers up in the Lewis and farm with my grandparents. And so I stayed in that degree and was just this hardcore science nerd. So University of Idaho and Washington State University are about eight miles apart in Washington State University is the leader in the northwest in terms of wine programs. And so it was very wonderful for me because I was able to actually cross some classes. And in the program over there, I was so sold. I mean, I just when I found and discovered fermentation and wine and all of that, I was like I knew that's what I wanted to do. I actually planted so my boyfriend at the time and I ended up becoming my husband he I second to last year of my undergrad. So I was two thousand three, asked my grandfather if we could plant a quarter acre of vines on the family farm down here, and he let us do it. And then in two thousand four, we started a winery in a garage.So in two thousand four, you start the winery with your boyfriend at the time, Karl, who turns out to be your husband later to start the winery, because you've got all of these angel investors lined up and you've got all this money and you think it's a great idea. Let's start a winery. Right? We had three other partners in the beginning of Clearwater Canyon because we were young and we had no money. At that point, Karl had paid off his student loans. You got a sweet deal. He actually grew up in Arkansas and his dad was a professor at the University of Arkansas in the music department. So he got a really great education for a little cheaper because he had a father that was faculty they gave, you know, children faculty a better deal. And so that was fantastic. So he was able to get a chemistry degree from the University of Arkansas and came out here to Idaho on a research assistantship to study soil science and earn his master's degree. And that's what I did at WSU. I was on a research assistantship. You're both able to kind of work on projects that in his case that the farming industry was really interested in. He did soils work and I was studying Brettanomyces, which was a hot topic in the wine world at the time. In part two of our interview with Coco Umiker of Clearwater Canyon Cellars, we explore what she loves. Oh, my God. Yeah. I mean, I love. Thank you for listening. I'm Forrest Kelly this episode of The Best Five Minute Wine Podcast was produced by IHYSM. If you like the show, please tell your friends and pets and subscribe until next time pour the wine, and ponder your next adventure.
5 minutes | May 31, 2021
Pippin Hill Farm & Vineyards - North Garden, VA Pt. 5
Welcome to The Best Five Minute Wine Podcast; I'm your host, Forrest Kelly. From the seed to the glass, wine has a past. Our aim at The Best Five Minute Wine Podcast is to look for adventure at wineries around the globe. After all, grape minds think alike. Let's start the adventure. Our featured winery is: we conclude our interview with Dean Andrews of Pippin Hill Farm and Vineyards in Virginia.I think I would have you talk to Brooks because Brooks is actually an awesome story because he's one of the people I mentioned earlier. OK, let's bring Brooks into the conversation. Brooks, would you agree with that? Is it interesting? Interesting or long? That depends on the listener. I have definitely been here for pretty much the whole decade that we've been here. And I started in the kitchen. I then became a chef. So I worked on the code line helping prep, and worked weddings. And then I became a bartender, and then I became the senior bartender. And then I left to work with our winemaker. I came back, and then I became our vineyard manager. I operate more as our vineyard production manager now. So, Jack, of all trades, master of none, I guess.In doing all of those different jobs and things, where does education, where does college come into the mix?At the time, I wanted to add a degree, and I was going to get my degree and go back to grad school. So I went to the front of the house, and that's how I started studying chemistry, and that got me into one. So my degree was actually in psychology at the time. I was actually taking my degree and then go to grad school for, you know, potentially, you know, either like becoming a psychiatrist or a clinical counselor. But to get my brain back in school mode, I started taking chemistry. And that led to me thinking, well, fermentation science is pretty cool. I thought I was throwing around the idea of making beer, but I already worked at the winery at the time. So I was like, well, let's just see where this goes. And half a decade later, I'm running the production for an entire winery. You know, it's funny because I haven't actually gone to school for viticulture or winemaking. So if you can show it to me, you know, show me three times, you know, I'll try and get it right by their time. And especially when you're working in a vineyard, know you can read books about pruning techniques and how to deal with a vineyard. But until you actually do it, you know, it's a different story.At the time, we're recording this. Just looking at your temperatures, the highs are in the upper 70s to the mid-70s, and yet the overnight lows are dipping into the 30s. What are you doing at this time of year when you see that kind of temperature?We're still technically in what I call frost watch season. Frost can come and kill your entire crop. I've been basically on call for all of April. I consider myself on call until the end of May. So there's only really a couple of things you can do. One is just hope and pray that it doesn't get below 32 degrees. But we're looking for that freezing point, 32 degrees. And we're looking at the wind speeds because it's breezy, like about five miles per hour, six, seven, eight miles per hour. The wind isn't going to settle, and the wind is carrying water vapor. And so you also have to look at the dew point. If the dew point is getting close to the actual temperature. That means that the water droplets are going to settle, and they're going to crystallize and freeze. And that's going to necrotize your blood tissue, the blood tissue, necrotizing; then you're not going to get a flower to pollinate. So we have these wind machines that we can turn on, and they're amazing machines. And essentially, it's a helicopter blade fan that's attached to a tower, and it rotates like your normal house fan would. But in a 360-degree radius above us, there's this pocket of warm air about 100, 150 feet up. And the spinning of that fan creates a vortex that holds that warm air down and spreads it around the vineyard, and raises the ambient air temperature. So if it's sitting at 30 degrees, and that can raise the ambient air temperature by just three degrees Fahrenheit, I just saved my entire crop in one night. Will somebody answer that phone? It's time, boys and girls, for our listener voice mail. My name is Ricardo. I'm from Santa Cruz, Mexico. So I'm going to be interesting to tell you. The Mexican government charges a minimum of 40 percent taxes on all wine. Thank you for that, Ricardo. I did not know that. Well, despite Mexico's Spanish heritage, as you might guess, it is not a major wine-drinking country. Beer and Tequila are far more popular than wine. And, you know, the average wine consumption per capita is only two glasses a year. And because of that tax, it makes it difficult for wine to compete with beer and Tequila. However, wine consumption is increasing in Mexico. In 2006, there were less than twenty-five wineries in Mexico, and now there are over 100. Thank you for listening. I'm Forrest Kelly. This episode of The Best Five Minute Wine Podcast was produced by IHYSM. If you like the show, please tell your friends and pets and subscribe until next time, pour the wine, and ponder your next adventure.
5 minutes | May 24, 2021
Pippin Hill Farm & Vineyards - North Garden, VA Pt. 4
Welcome to The Best Five Minute Wine Podcast, I'm your host, Forrest Kelly. From the seed to the glass, wine has a past. Our aim at The Best Five Minute Wine Podcast is to look for adventure at wineries around the globe. After all, grape minds think alike. Let's start the adventure. Our featured winery is: OK, in this episode, and I'm just going to give you some random questions, Dean. I can imagine having a farm and vineyard located in Virginia. It's very scenic. So what do we see when we come into the parking lot of Pippin Hill Farm and Vineyards? You're looking out over the valley, OK It is up on the high side of the valley facing west, and that there are four mountain ranges. When you come out of the valley, it ends up being where the Blue Ridge Mountains are. So you got four beautiful mountain ranges sort of float in your view and the future and you think they will never be developed close in because John Grisham, the author, owns a big chunk of the ones right in front of us. And the rest of it is part of our Bondurant farm, which is a conservation easement ownership group. So it is all rural. We won't have any homes or anything built in our viewshed. And you're looking out over our six acres of vines, down across a wildflower meadow, and over to some closer woods where we've been able to go in and pull out all the invasive species. And there is a program this last year that was granted to plant native trees. So we were able to go in and replace it with some native oaks and other trees. So it's just a very pristine rural view, very calm.Well, your wife, Lynn, has an exceptional design and event expertise and founded EASTON Events, so merging those two worlds together into the creation of Capitol Hill Farm and vineyards. Was that a difficult transition?After I left, Orient-Express Lynn's business on the Easton Events side was just taking off. She had been doing events just here in Virginia but was beginning to do more nationally. And one of the points she mentioned to me was that she had a lot of clients who really wanted to come to this particularly beautiful part of rural Virginia and to host an outdoor wedding. But there really weren't enough places to do it. And that was when the lights sort of went off my mind. I thought I always sort of love the winery and the vineyard business from having been involved with it in Italy primarily, and so wanting to do it. And it provided us a means of both collaborating and working together. And without Lynn, we wouldn't have been able to get those the initial clients to come in to help underwrite the overall investment. So doing weddings and private events helps underwrite the broader picture of the wine business. So that was kind of what our collaboration was. And her office is still here with us out here. And she also has an office in Charleston, South Carolina as well. So it's been it's been a great partnership because not only are we partners in life, it's now seven grandchildren. But we also have been able to work successfully together with Lynn taking lead on some of the design side and some of the concept development side and my kind of make it happen on a day-to-day basis.We both wanted this important point. We both wanted to create a winery which had a very experiential focus if you will. And what I mean by that is we have, in addition to just doing wine tastings and focusing on just the wine as a singular aspect of it. We do cooking classes, we do horticultural gardening classes, we do some classes. Which are your traditional Sunni view of what we're doing with our wines? Of course. And then seasonally, we do each fall harvest full moon dinner where we bring our primarily our wine club members out and we take over the lawn and we are doing outdoor tables and you're able to go down and actually see some grapes being harvested and go down the garden and you pull up some of beets out of the ground and become part of the dinner. And then the chef is out there with one of our farm partners doing some grilling. So you're able to experience what it would be like to be able to live in a fully self-sustained farm environment, if you will, and have that authentic rural American experience. We're expanding. And now to include a new greenhouse, expanding the gardens. And we've got about a dozen farm gardeners where we are the largest client for people who are building up everything from making cheese to growing cattle. And really, it's an integral part of what we do.Thank you for listening. I'm Forrest Kelly this episode of The Best Five Minute Wine Podcast was produced by IHYSM if you like the show, please tell your friends and pets and subscribe. Until next time pour the wine and ponder your next adventure.
5 minutes | May 17, 2021
Pippin Hill Farm & Vineyards - North Garden, VA Pt. 3
Pippin Hill Farm & Vineyards - North Garden, VA Pt. 3Welcome to The Best Five Minute Wine Podcast; I'm your host, Forrest Kelly. From the seed to the glass, wine has a past. Our aim at The Best Five Minute Wine Podcast is to look for adventure at wineries around the globe. After all, grape minds think alike. Let's start the adventure. Our featured winery: we continue our conversation with Dean Andrews' of Pippin Hill Farm & Vineyards. The wine industry has a five billion dollar economic impact on the state of Virginia, and Virginia ranks in the top 10 of most wineries per state. So I imagine, Dean, that you are always looking to improve and enhance the experience of when people come to visit your property. We also have been looking at what we can do when people get here. We have a garden map. So if they want to take some time to get to know the property a bit more, you can do a self-guided tour of the vineyards and understand what is planted, where you can go down the garden and see the seasonal variation is bed by bed. You can go and play with the chickens for a while and come up for your table. So it again is delivering on that full farm experience.Ok, let's suppose that I'm in the area, and I'm going to Washington, D.C., visiting the Smithsonian Institute and checking out the Struggle for Justice exhibit. And I want to visit Pépin Hill Farm and Vineyards. Tell me what happens after that.You're in Washington. You want to come down here on Sunday and have the two-hour wine experience and the food and wine experience and garden tours and all that. You can go on our website, and you can pick the date in the time size of your party. You click on it, you have a confirmed table for that time, and then we're able to communicate with you in advance to set expectations, answer any questions. And so we know that you will actually be showing up at that time. And it's great because ninety-five percent of the people are book show up.Soon after I do the two-hour wine tasting experience, I'm getting hungry, so I want to get some food. What is that step like?When you come here to the tasting room, every single dish we serve along with our wines is part of our wine pairings. We don't do the traditional thing where you come in and just do wine tasting and wine pairings. We have it set up with food, so every dish has one or maybe two wines that are specifically designed to be paired with that dish, to come to sort of like small plates, to come in with small plate cuisine experience. And we have the equivalent of a chef's table, which we call the vintner's table. You know, anywhere from eight people, up to 12 people. That can be four-course, five-course that are paired with our wines. So it really presents a real-world example of how the cuisine in the wines parallels each other."This place inspires me to come to work every day and look at this view is magical, and being able to pick things fresh from our chef's garden gives me even more respect for my ingredients and the environment." That's a direct quote from your chef. Ian Rynecki is one of the top catering chefs in New York. In Manhattan, he and his wife planned to leave Manhattan, will come down and settle into a quieter, smaller town for the next chapter in their lives. So I have a strong culinary team. Diane has three people working for her on the viticulture side, and we have a full garden. In the last two years, we've added on chickens, and we've got our bees. So we make our own honey, we've got chickens, and we've got gardens. So really, it's a complete story.Whenever I go on vacation, and I visit someplace memorable, I love to bring back a little souvenir, a little reminder of the great time I had. And you've come upon a great idea.We put together these terrific small glass bottles for people can custom select put wines they want to taste. We give them tasting notes and a card. And because they have these files, they can actually go, and they can self-determine how quickly they can try one and try the one next to it. And they come back to us, and they show us their notes. So again, it's about having an engaging experience where people feel like they're part of it. It's four bottles in this really cute little case. And we give them glasses, we give them the notes, and they can go out on a lawn, and they can do it. They can go down the garden and taste it. So it really just allows that allows them to control. So you are not standing in a bar with somebody talking to you. You really are able to experience it on your own. And then we check-in for any clarifications on what does it mean if you got a low acid wine? What does it mean if you've got something which is more robust on it was high with high tannins, that kind of stuff? It's been interesting how we have changed the model, focusing on it from what the customer experience would want to be and then how we can deliver that elevated customer experience.Thank you for listening. I'm Forrest Kelly. This episode of The Best Five Minute Wine Podcast was produced by IHYSM. If you like the show, please tell your friends and pets and subscribe. Until next time pour the wine and ponder your next adventure.
5 minutes | May 10, 2021
Pippin Hill Farm & Vineyards - North Garden, VA Pt. 2
Welcome to The Best Five Minute Wine Podcast, I'm your host, Forrest Kelly. From the seed to the glass, wine has a past. Our aim at The Best Five Minute Wine Podcast is to look for adventure at wineries around the globe. After all, grape minds think alike. Let's start the adventure. We continue our conversation with Dean Andrews' of Pippin Hill Farm & Vineyards through your networking and connections. I love the story where you tell me about how you incorporated your winemaker into Pippin Hill Farm & Vineyards. Well, yeah, actually, interesting points. When I took over and we bought the 21 Club in New York from the original family. And so we came in and spent money converting their former apartments in the private dining board rooms. And we revamped the whole thing and we did the whole original prohibition area. Wine cellar is part of that. I put together a marketing program for we would bring in winemakers from every region in the world where we own the property. So we brought in winemakers from South Africa. We were brought in winemakers from France, Italy, and because we owned Keswick Hall here in Charlottesville and the Virginia wine industry, and Monticello Wine trail was just getting going back then. Back then, we're probably only like three or four vineyards at all within wineries. And we were the 10th to join but before that. So I was doing bringing in winemakers into the twenty-one club to do private lunches primarily for the press and influencers. And so I came across Michael Shaps, who is our winemaker here. He was just getting his business going, making wines. He's classically trained in Bordeaux. So he was here trying to make it work in Virginia. So I hooked up with him. He is our winemaker. So we now own a portion of his custom crush business as well. As custom crush is more popular in California than it is elsewhere. But we have about a dozen clients and we are the anchor or the largest one, and we're the anchor on it. But he has other smaller private labeling and custom blending that we are doing for other members as well. So Michael Schatz's are our winemaker and he is someone that I met. Probably almost 10 years before we opened here. So Michael and I have known each other and worked together for about 20 years. Now you've got your winemaker, but your hiring is not finished there. So we started off with a viticulturist and then we were able to hire the horticulturalists. Diane was the lead horticulturist at Monticello, Jefferson's home here. So she had huge experience. We bought some railroad ties and they did about eight or ten raised beds, primarily to grow herbs for the garden. I'm guessing here. But just looking at how organized everything is around your website and everything is done for a reason, then what's your growing and cooking is in harmony with the wine.When you come here to our tasting room, every single dish we serve along with our lines is their wine pairings. We don't do the traditional thing where you come in and just do wine tasting and wine pairings. We have it set up with food, so every dish has one or maybe two lines that are specifically designed to be paired with that dish, to come to sort of like small plates, so you come in with a small plate cuisine experience. And we have the equivalent of a chef's table, which we call the vintner's table, you know, anywhere from eight people, up to twelve people. That can be four-course, five-course that are paired with our wines. So it really presents a real-world example of how the cuisine in the wines parallels each other.Looking back at 2020, and even into this year, what have you taken out of the pandemic and modified perhaps to make the winery and the farm better?In order to both control, the people coming in from the tastings for just overall safety and sanitary cleanliness? We changed the spacing and we went to a pure reservations model. So now and it's continued, even though we're coming back out, hopefully on the other side, of Covid, in the next couple of months, we will continue to have the reservations only because we get people who, if you think about it, if you're up in Washington, DC, you're going to drive down here from experience with us. Pippin Hill, you really need to know that when you show up at two o'clock in the afternoon on a Saturday, you've got your table ready. You're not going to be told it's an hour's wait in order to be able to have the experience. So we have been able to we're doing fewer covers, fewer people coming in from the tastings every day. But the economics of it are, in fact, better because they're coming down. They're experiencing the full meal multicore thing, and they're walking away with sometimes two or three cases of the wine because of that connection they've been able to establish. We learned a lot and we have changed even the way we're basically doing. Tastings, we are going to be going back to just rolling up to the bar and doing the tastings.Thank you for listening. I'm Forrest Kelley. This episode of The Best Five Minute Wine Podcast was produced by IHYSM, if you like the show. Please tell your friends and pets and subscribe until next time or pour the wine and ponder your next adventure.
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