Listen Now

While saving for retirement has been simplified and streamlined in recent decades, with tools like auto-enrollment and target date funds, the retirement savings ecosystem is anything but simple. It’s a complex confluence of innovators, service providers, employers, workers, consultants, lawyers, and, yes, government officials. Regulators play a huge role in our industry, so understanding who they are and how they work is an important factor in the outcomes for plan sponsors and plan participants. In this episode, we speak with two former Department of Labor EBSA directors, Brad Campbell and Phyllis Borzi, about the challenges and opportunities in regulating the employee benefits space, including the enactment of the landmark Pension Protection Act of 2006. Key Takeaways: [:04] Josh opens up today’s episode with a quick recap of episode 5 which focused on the work of two innovators in the field. He opens up this part of the conversation on what made the start of Target Date Funds and automatic enrollment so very impactful, the passage of the Pension Protection Act of 2006.   [2:18] Josh explores the regulatory carrots and sticks of EPSA through the eyes of two of its leaders, we begin with Bradfrod Campbell. Brad shares about how he came to shape the world of modern retirement savings as the Assistant Secretary of Labor for Employee Benefits in the United States Department of Labor.   [4:18] The Pension Protection Act was passed while Brad worked as a young Republican, he speaks about his beginnings in the Government and how he found ERISA, enrolled in law school and weathered the Enron scandal.   [8:15] Phyllis Borzy took over Brad’s position as the Assistant Secretary of Labor for Employee Benefits in the United States Department of Labor. She talks about how she was always drawn to law and enrolled the year ERISA passed.   [11:14] Her love for ERISA was cemented after her stay in corporate law and she brought it into her career in government all the way up to what she calls the Gingrich revolution.   [13:45] Brad and phyllis had similar challenges but different approaches. Brad talks about the balancing act between carrot and stick.   [15:09] Josh offers a quick explanation of 404C — a pivotal part of the Accidental Plan Sponsor story as well as the Pension Protection Act. Brad weighs in on the way 404C functions.   [19:14] Phyllis shares her profound hate for 404C, her multiple reasons why and what she would do differently.   [22:25] The Pension Protection Act from Brad’s point of view — both pre and post Enron — and the legal implications that had to be thought over in that context.   [26:15] More carrots! 404C generated a proliferation of offers without much structure for participants to direct their investment, Brad describes how they helped write the QDIA regulation and define 3 mechanisms for an appropriate default investment that would stand the test of time.   [30:00] Brad shares the difficulties of putting regulations in place, from congress to burgeoning lawsuits inter-administration. Phyllis shares her take and the work she did on the regulation, get ready for some bi-partisan agreement!   [34:44] Phyllis takes a moment to denounce the attacks her co-workers received from the nay-sayers.   [35:54] With overwhelming bi-partisan support, the Secure Act was passed in 2019, Josh touches on some of the issues this rule attempts to address. Brad and Phyllis share their joy having worked on ERISA.   [37:48] Josh thanks his guests for sharing their stories and ends with a taste of what episode 7 has to offer.   Thank you for tuning in. If you liked what you heard, please subscribe and leave us a review wherever you listen to your podcasts.   Links: The Accidental Plan Sponsor   Mentioned in this episode: More about Bradford Campbell. More about Phyllis Borzy.

The future of defined contribution retirement savings will always be marked by two key concepts: putting individual investors first when designing plans, and constantly innovating. Over the course of the next four episodes, we’re going to discuss how regulation, litigation, and the role of consultants both support and deter innovation. We’re going to start with two featured guests who laid the foundation for the modern 401(k):     • Brigitte Madrian, who pioneered behavioral economics work on automatic enrollment    • Larry Tint, creator of the Target Date Fund   Key Takeaways: [:29] Josh opens up today’s episode with a quick recap of episode 4 which focused on the work of two innovators in the field. He pursues the series by talking about his  experience and what he believes the very heart of the issues to be — innovation, regulation and consultancies. [4:00] How did Larry Tint — former U.S. CEO of Barclays Global Investors — change the trajectory of the retirement industry? Josh and Larry detail his career trajectory and how it led to meeting the future Nobel prize winner Bill Sharpe and the birth of SharpeTint. [8:00] Most individual investors don’t know how to build investment portfolios! Larry talks about his time at Wells Fargo and his work with Don Luskin to use the technology he created with Bill to the benefit of individuals. The Target Date funds were born. [11:39] The General Motors exception! Also Larry talks about the innovations he didn’t act on or think of and how this might have changed the course of things even further — wheels on suitcases? [15:30] Target date Funds were still being held back, and more innovation was required. Josh introduces Behavioral Economist Brigitte Madrian — ninth Dean of the Marriott School of Business at Brigham Young University (BYU).  [17:10] Behavioral Economics was not a thing when Brigitte began her academic career. She speaks to a life-changing moment in data analysis and the 20 plus years of research this generated! [22:29] So why is auto-enrollment so successful? Brigitte shares what her research points to as well as the kinds of organisations that immediately were on board, and the ones that weren’t. [26:07] The biggest hurdle… Lawsuits! Brigitte talks about the policy makers that got in touch with her and how she helped shape policy. She also shares the pride she feels about her public and academic involvement. [28:55] Larry takes a moment to reflect on his contributions to the retirement landscape. [29:43] Josh thanks his guests for sharing their stories and opens up the discussion on what came after Target Date Funds and automatic enrollment in the retirement planning space. Thank you for tuning in. If you liked what you heard, please subscribe and leave us a review wherever you listen to your podcasts. Links: The Accidental Plan Sponsor Mentioned in this episode: More about Larry Tint. More about William “Bill” F. Sharpe. More about Don Luskin. More about Brigitte Madrian.

Josh reviews the first four full-length episodes of the podcast with long-time friend Mike Barry, President of O3 Plan Advisory Services LLC, who offers his thoughts while also sharing some personal experiences from 40+ years’ in the benefits field. 

Josh engages in an energetic discussion with two colleagues and long-time Defined Contribution (DC) experts David Skinner and Sara Shean from PGIM Real Estate. The discussion covers the evolving DC environment, the challenges facing plan sponsors, and the role of real estate in DC.

In this bonus episode, Ted Benna, who is often dubbed the father of the 401(k) and who was a guest from episode 2, reminisces about the early days of DC plans.  Stories he shares includes a memorable exchange with a future vice presidential nominee about retirement savings, how plans were built and communicated in those days, and blowback he received from some in the industry.

In this bonus episode, Frank Cummings (Guest from Ep.1) shares some key moments from his time on Capitol Hill working closely with the late Senator Jacob Javits. Here, Frank describes how he convinced Senator Javits to push for equal access for women in some crucial areas. He also shared a humorous story about former President Lyndon Johnson following the signing of ERISA. 

If innovating was easy, we would all be Steve Jobs. But it’s not. It disrupts lives, it forces us out of comfort zones, and it requires both inspired vision and a lot of work. No wonder we prize the innovators amongst us. In this episode, we talk with two plan sponsors who embraced innovation in the defined contribution space, Stuart Odell, formerly of Intel, and Bob Hunkeler from International Paper Company. We discuss their work, the challenges they faced, and how they view the future of retirement.

In the first two episodes of this series, we examined the history of the employer-based retirement system. But how is it working out today? The success of the creation and implementation of the employer-based 401(k) and other defined contribution retirement plans is seen not only in its exponential growth in all measurable metrics but also in the fact that it has succeeded in helping millions of Americans retire well. That said, the system, as it’s designed and operating today, is far from perfect, stranding some without access to the tools of a comfortable retirement and discouraging attempts at innovation. In this episode, host Josh Cohen asks respected industry leaders to grade the system on four crucial factors of success: Access, Adequacy, Alignment, and Innovation.  Featured Guests: • Lori Lucas, President & CEO of the Employee Benefit Research Institute (EBRI) • Lew Minsky, President & CEO of the Defined Contribution Institutional Investment Association (DCIIA)   Key Takeaways: [:34] How is the retirement system doing today? To answer this question, your host Josh Cohen recruited some of his long-time friends, who happen to be industry experts.   [2:27] Lori Lucas is the President and CEO of the Employee Benefit Research Institute (EBRI). She shares what they do and how she came to be in this position.   [5:04] Lew Minsky is the President and Chief Executive Officer of the Defined Contribution Institutional Investment Association (DCIIA). He talks about getting bit by the public policy bug and his journey to co-founding the DCIIA.   [8:27] With the help of our experts we’re going to be grading the system according to 4 aspects, red pens out everyone.   [9:24] Grade 1: Access. Lori weighs in with the ERBI research on 401k’s and grades according to organization size. Lew adds a caveat before handing out easy grades here.   [13:29] Grade 2: Adequacy. Lew feels adequacy scores higher than access if one important condition is met, however Lori’s enthusiasm wavers.   [18:00] Grade 3: Alignment. This relates to the sponsor entity’s interest being aligned with the successful retirement of employees. Lori’s grade is linked to the importance of promoting overall employee financial wellness. Lew offers that theory and practice diverge on this front and that there is an elephant in the room...   [24:20] Grade 4: Innovation. DCIIA has been hosting an annual excellence and innovation award, Lew mentions that efforts will need to continue. Both Lew and Lori speak to the elephant of litigation coming back into the room.   [27:48] Lori and Lew weigh in on the podcast name: The Accidental Plan Sponsor!   [29:30] Josh offers a summary of the system, thanks Lew and Lori for their contribution to this episode, and opens up the discussion for episode 4 on how certain plan sponsors challenged the status quo and innovated in the retirement savings space.   Thank you for tuning in. If you liked what you heard, please subscribe and leave us a review wherever you listen to your podcasts. Links: The Accidental Plan Sponsor Mentioned in this episode: More about Lori Lucas, President and CEO of the Employee Benefit Research Institute. More about Lew Minsky, President and CEO of the Defined Contribution Institutional Investment Association.

At 40 years old, the 401(k) has become part of the bedrock of the employer-based retirement system. Tens of millions of Americans have socked away trillions of dollars in a retirement investment vehicle that has fundamentally changed the dynamic of how employers provide a secure retirement for their workers. Today, the 401(k) makes up more than $6.5 of the $9.5 trillion in workplace defined contribution assets. But in 1981, this nascent idea was trying to find its place amongst pension and various savings plans, and it was finding an audience that would propel it to prominence. Host Josh Cohen talks with Ted Benna, father of the 401(k), and Richard Stanger, the author of the 869-word insert to the US tax code that changed retirement.

In Part 1 of the premiere episode, we touched on one of the most important events in the history of retirement savings, the collapse of Studebaker in 1963. Today’s guest, Frank Cummings, was back then just beginning his 70-year law career with one of his very first clients…Studebaker.  In Part 2 of this episode, Frank recounts his journey from New York to South Bend, Indiana, to Washington, DC as lead bargainer for the auto company. He recalls his meeting with Senator Jacob Javits, with whom he embarks on a series of ‘Road Shows’ centered on the tragic stories of people losing their pensions, all in the hopes of providing the public with better information around pension reform legislation.    Listen in to this incredible account of policy reform, a journey that spanned four presidents, nearly 50 states, Watergate, and finally, a Rose Garden signing that helped pave the way for the modern retirement system and the regulations Plan Sponsors are still living with today. 

The next time you’re browsing through your 401(k) statement, consider this: If not for the collapse of a once-iconic car company in the 1960s, your retirement plan may look dramatically different.  The history of pensions and retirement savings is a fascinating one. From the impact of world wars, the shift in workforce demographics to squabbling labor unions, organized crime, and, yes, even the demise of the Studebaker, how employers structure retirement plans for their workers is a complex and compelling story. In fact, it’s why we launched our new podcast, The Accidental Plan Sponsor, hosted by PGIM’s head of institutional defined contribution, Josh Cohen.  In Part 1 of the premiere episode, Josh is joined by Professor James Wooten at the University at Buffalo School of Law. During their conversation, Professor Wooten explains a series of crucial events that led to the creation of the Employee Retirement Income Security Act (ERISA) and how employers ultimately became responsible for their employees’ retirement. 

Most retirement benefits for American workers are built up through workplace savings plans where employers play a pivotal administrative and legal role as the Plan Sponsor. PGIM’s new podcast, The Accidental Plan Sponsor™, hosted by Josh Cohen, Head of Institutional Defined Contribution, explores the origins, evolution, and trends within the employer-based retirement system.

Most retirement benefits for American workers are built up through workplace savings plans where employers play a pivotal administrative and legal role as the Plan Sponsor. PGIM’s new podcast, The Accidental Plan Sponsor™, hosted by Josh Cohen, Head of Institutional Defined Contribution, explores the origins, evolution, and trends within the employer-based retirement system.