Channeling Bruce Lee and Miley Cyrus while transitioning into a Seer of The Headless Way.
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We record these weekly sessions on Sundays. Please note that I try to publish episodes the day after recording: Mondays. I generally will have the transcript and initial notes published on Mondays as well. From there, I may continue adding and modifying the show notes throughout the week.
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CK: Hopefully that makes it a little easier for me to line up the audio.
Okay. Here we go.
Heyo! I’m CK, and you’re listening to Practice. I’m your functional systems integrator, and this is my podcast where practice is not just the theme of the show, but the whole purpose behind it. I’m using this platform to practice podcasting as well as speaking in general, while espousing have thoughts and providing unsolicited advice.
As always, I’m fortunate to be joined by my practice partner and partner in life, Pam.
Pam: Hey, that’s me.
CK: Pam is also my pattern awareness manager, and every Sunday we reflect on the past week and my progress with this practice along with other lifestyle practices, as well as theories and ideas behind the virtues of practice itself.
We’re doing this on the fly, so don’t hold me responsible for what I say here. Make sure to check out my show notes where I’ll provide some fact-checking, self-psychoanalysis and commentary on things I could’ve done better. You may find this and more information about this project at ForcesOfEqual.com/Practice.
Today, we’re recording on September 6th, 2020. This is our 28th practice session and we’re rolling right along in this hot weather.
Pam: Labor day weekend.
CK: yeah, that’s right. It’s over 100 here today in Southern California. Got over a hundred yesterday as well. And today we decided, or I decided to fire up the air conditioning for a little while before this practice session to keep our rooms cool while we’re recording. And I guess maybe that’s something unconventional that we could riff about where we generally don’t use our air conditioning.
If we don’t have to.
Pam: Or our heater, we don’t use any climate control. Really?
CK: Yeah, very true. And for one we’re very fortunate to live in such nice climate in Southern California, where every day it’s pretty much 70 and sunny. Although, we get to the extremes like this weekend and maybe a couple of weekends ago as well, where we hit over a hundred. And that seems to be happening a little more often then it had been before.
It’s a little worrying. I don’t know if we want to get into the whole climate change…
Pam: That’s a whole can of worms, but I saw somebody tweet something the other day that said, “Don’t think about this as the hottest year on record; think about it as the coolest of the next 10 years.” And I thought that really put it in perspective.
CK: Wow. Wow. That’s kind of blowing my mind. Yeah. I don’t want to get too hung up on that right now. Oh man, that’s so scary though.
Pam: I know.
Pam: I haven’t stopped thinking about it since I read it, so now you can think about it too.
CK: Yeah, thanks for that. That’s crazy!
Anyway. So we- I wanted to talk about how we generally don’t use our climate control technology that we have available to us.
For me, it’s mainly because I like to stay with the general order of nature. And I feel like there’s a lot of benefit in following natural cycles. And it all goes into our rhythms and cycles and patterns and our circadian rhythms specifically.
But as humans, we need a lot of variance. And I know this is a little may seem hypocritical, or paradoxical may- might be the better word, because I talk a lot about maintaining a certain state of equilibrium or homeostasis and riding that sweet spot of the momentum wave.
But that’s like the general baseline that you want to achieve. So, the goal is to reach a state of equilibrium where things are balanced, but in terms of growth, you need the variances. So you need to experience extremes or different levels of different things in order to inform yourself and to grow from that information.
So with, like, temperature, these days in modern society with all the technology we have in the modern electricity grid and all that, all the comforts that we have available to us, it makes us complacent and too comfortable with comfort.
Pam: there’s also something to be said about, um, finding that stasis While you’re in discomfort. So being able to stay calm and stable and at that baseline of functioning while you’re experiencing discomfort. So you need to be able to, to develop your ability. To be stable while experiencing extreme heat or extreme cold, or, you know, whatever the stressor is like.
That’s part of the practice of maintaining balance is you can’t maintaining balance when everything is easy is not difficult.
CK: Right. Exactly. And in the end is not, it’s not really balanced because then you start falling into that comfort level and you start going into this state where you’re not growing. So it’s, you’re you become complacent. Like I said before, and. you grow into that habit and you get into that cycle and you don’t realize that you’re getting comfortable and complacent and that you’re not growing.
So this is where it’s important to stay mindful and to practice different things and to challenge yourself and to be uncomfortable sometimes. So with like the temperature, that we’re talking about, it’s beneficial to get into hot. Situations or cold situations. And in terms of exercising your body and your mind and your physiology, it can be also beneficial to get into extreme, hot and cold situations.
So of course, I’m sure you’ve heard about sauna and sauna therapy. So there’s many benefits in sauna therapy. Uh, and it spans a wide spectrum of different things. So, and there’s different kinds of sun is too. There’s the wet saunas and the dry saunas, infrared saunas, and all different kinds. And they hit on different aspects of your physiology.
But the point is that the extreme heat puts your body into such a state that it induces physical reactions and chemical reactions and physiological reactions. To respond to that extreme pressure and build up your body’s functions in order to be able to, um, respond better to those situations in the future.
Pam: Develop resiliency.
CK: Right. Exactly. And same with cold. You may have heard about cold exposure therapy, which has been gaining more and more popular popularity lately. You may have heard people taking cold showers and ice baths and going into frozen waters in like the Nordic countries.
Pam: Like polar plunges.
CK: Yeah, exactly. And both of these methodol methodologies are things that I love to do.
So I love going out in heat and I love running out and heat and humidity, and I love cold showers and cold soaks. And it’s exercise for your body basically It’s a Hormetic stressor. And hormesis, if you don’t know is basically hitting your body with small, acute stressors, so your body can build up against them and respond better the next time it encounters those stressors.
So exercise is a prime example of a hormetic stressor, where you work your body and your muscles, and you’re actually. Destroying your muscles, or I don’t know if destroy is right term, but you’re breaking down your muscles when you work out. So working out your, when you work out, you’re actually not.
Building up your body, you’re breaking it down. And then the recovery process from the workout is when your body builds up and that’s the hormetic response to that acute stressor of exercise. And so the response builds your body back up to prepare for it, for that challenge when it encounters it next so that your body is more ready for it and both top for it.
So it has gained those functions and then you become better and it’s beneficial in the end. So it’s little acute stressors, like these that are beneficial to you in the long run. You want to challenge your body and become uncomfortable at times so that you can become more comfortable in the long run and more of the time.
So, yeah, we kind of oh go ahead.
Pam: I was just gonna add one more piece to the awareness,um that you mentioned earlier, which is that, you know, like you said, we are in constant comfort all the time when we have air conditioning and heating and you know, and all of this stuff that makes us really, really comfortable. And we are in the middle of a situation here with the coronavirus pandemic that is making other people’s lives really uncomfortable.
So we have an even larger homeless, um, epidemic/problem happening right now because the homeless shelters can’t keep as many people in them because of the requirements of social distancing. So there’s more and more people living on the streets right now. And in this extreme heat it’s even worse. And, you know, they have no resources and the heat is, is just unbearable.
So. Bringing your awareness to the fact that you’re sitting in a 90 degree room and you’re miserable. And there are people that have literally no shade because we don’t have any trees in LA. That’s a big awareness piece that I think can come from making yourself uncomfortable or taking away some of your comforts.
CK: Yeah, really great point. Thanks for bringing that up. There’s a lot to that you could unpack there, but the general theme is that not only does being uncomfortable benefit yourself, but it also makes you aware. Of the spectrum of human experience, basically. And so while we’re living in, the comforts of modern technology, there are people that don’t have access to that.
So being aware and mindful of this abundance that we have available to us, is very useful in considering the whole system and the whole society. And the people around us and how that can affect everything. So, yeah. Great point, Pam So yeah, we kind of got started off topic or on topic. I don’t know. We don’t really have any topics, so…
Pam: Do you have a quote this week?
CK: I do.
So let’s get into that. My quote today comes from the great philosopher. One of my favorites, Bruce Lee. And I’m sure everybody’s heard of Bruce Lee but if you haven’t, he is a Chinese-American or he was a Chinese American that came to America from China in the seventies, late sixties, early seventies, something like that.
And tried breaking into Hollywood and had a lot of obstacles being an Asian trying to break into it Hollywood. And he was very big into martial arts, which was basically what he was typecast into Hollywood, for And then he tried to bring a lot of Eastern philosophies and Eastern practices, especially around martial arts and around Taoism to America.
And the quote by Bruce Lee is:
he way to transcend karma lies in the proper use of the mind and will the oneness of all life is a truth that can be fully realized only when false notions of a separate self whose destiny can be considered apart from the whole. Are forever annihilated.
Pam: That was a lot. Can you break it down for me?
CK: So let’s, let’s take this, uh, the first sentence first is the way to transcend karma lies in the proper use of the mind and will. So this goes to say that first of all, there’s the notion of karma where. If you do something, you get it back from the universe. So if you do something negative you’ll, you may get something back negatively from the universe and the same vice versa.
If you do something positive, you may get something positive back from the universe. And the first sentence here, Bruce Lee is saying the way to transcend karma. So karma, I suppose it implies. This higher power per se, or I don’t know if you want to say higher power because in Taoism, I don’t know if the concept is a power or just being, I’m not sure the language around that, but in terms of transcending, this power that is over you, basically a super-system you have power within yourself.
To affect how things are going to progress or what the outcome is going to be. So it looks like immediately, he’s talking about self-assertion versus integration or being controlled by an outside system. And then he goes on to say, the oneness of all life is a truth that can be fully realized. Only when false notions of a separate, sorry.
Only when farl- I can’t- can’t say false. False – false. Okay. So here we go. The oneness of all life is a truth that can be fully realized only when a false notion of a separate self whose destiny can be considered apart from the whole. Are forever annihilated. So let’s break this down. So it can be fully realized only when false notions of a separate self whose destiny can be considered apart from the whole.
So we’re almost talking about holons here, and this is awesome. I didn’t really think too deeply about this. Uh, this quote just kind of hit me and I thought it was a good one to reflect my week, but now thinking about it in complex systems terms. He’s saying that there is a notion of a separate self, as well as the notion of the whole, which is exactly the concept of holons where everything is a part of a system and is also a system within itself.
So Bruce Lee is saying the oneness of all life is a truth that can be fully realized only when. This false notion of the self or the individual can be considered apart from the whole system or when that the notion of the self? Uh, I, okay, so this sentence is, uh, I’m not sure how to explain it, but. It’s kind of saying the negative.
So it’s kind of, I’m getting a little confused in what it’s actually trying to say. Do, do you know what I mean? Because it’s saying that okay. Anyway…
Pam: Well, it’s saying that you can only achieve the transcendence when you realize that you are, that what you do impacts the greater good, the whole, like that you are integrated into everything. So. Your, your actions have impact on everything. And the more you try to make yourself separate from that, the more you try to be apart and not, um, not part of the greater good, the more you are, uh, potentially opening yourself up to karma because you’re not, um, you’re not integrating yourself into the, the oneness.
CK: Yeah. Yeah, exactly. It’s exactly what we were talking about last week in terms of the, my little thing with the paradox of duality and the oneness of duality. And this is basically the same thing. And. I think the reason that this quote stood out to me, quote, I have to practice enunciating quote because when doing the transcript last week, it kept coming out as coat.
Quote So, yeah, I I’ve been noticing a little tangent here. I’ve been noticing that. I need to practice enunciating Some more, some words, a little more carefully, because as I listened back, I noticed I say some things that I had no idea, I was saying that way. And it’s just kind of coming out as mumbly.
Pam: That’s so validating for the last 11 years when I, when you say something and I’m like, what? And you’re like, why? Like, why can’t you understand me? I’m like you mumble. You’re like, no, you don’t.
CK: Yeah. Yeah. I didn’t think I did, but now that I listen back, I can totally tell especially seeing how the transcript transcribes it. So
Pam: Thank you transcript.
CK: it’s pretty funny, but I, yeah, so I’m going to work on enunciating or be a little more mindful of that. So when you think I’m saying coat, I’m actually saying quote,
Pam: I wonder if that has anything to do with how you learned to say Qs from your parents?
CK: I have no idea.
Pam: Cause like your dad says skier instead of square.
Pam: Yeah, skier
CK: Hmm. Interesting.
Pam: Just something to think about.
CK: Yeah, language is interesting. Okay. So where were we anyway?
Pam: You were talking about how this quote ties in perfectly with what you were saying last week about the, the oneness
CK: Yeah, I remember that, but I don’t remember where I was going with it.
Pam: That I can’t help you with.
CK: Okay. But anyway, let’s see if. I can pick things back up. Okay. So I’ll repeat the quote once more, the way to transcend karma lies in the proper use of the mind and will the oneness of all life is a truth that can be fully realized only when false notions of a separate self whose destiny can be considered apart from the whole are forever annihilated.
So yeah, it’s basically. The oneness of duality, everything’s a part and a whole at the same time. And so when you realize that that’s when you can be enlightened per se, and this is okay. So I think this is why I picked this quote is because this whole past week, and even the week beforehand, I’ve been getting a ton of synchronicity.
Going on in my life. And I think this quote was popped out to me because I feel like I’m starting to flow into the practices or the principles of Taoism a little more now. So the past few weeks, I’ve been talking about stoicism and a little bit about its contrast with Taoism and how I feel more attracted to the logical proposition of Stoism (Stoism???) And I feel like I need to work more on the natural flow of Taoism and just being comfortable with the way things are and that just things are the way they are. and That’s it. And to just be, and with the process of the headless way that I’ve been going through the past week or two that I started mentioning last week, I feel like I’m starting to see more and see how things just are.
And I’ve been able to create this space to allow for that. And so I think this is why this quote popped out to me this week. And I feel like everything that I’ve been encountering has been relating to my growth. And the things that I’ve been seeing, and even these things that I’m trying to articulate here as I’m going through this process and going through this enlightenment per se, and this broadening of perspectives.
And I guess I could talk about the headless way is I’ve been learning a little more and more over the past week. So there’s. Four stages that they break things down. And actually there’s two different parts that are the basis of the headless way. And they refer to them as the science of the first person and the science of the third person.
And the science of the first person is basically you and how you see things. And how you’re looking out into the world and the science of the third person has to do with how others see you. And so there’s that duality with the headless way. And then the four stages are the baby, the child, the adult, and the seer And so how it starts out is with the baby. And when you’re a baby, You only have a notion of the first person. You only see what you see and you basically have no head. You don’t see your own head and you’re not really aware of your own head. Even if you see your reflection, you’re not really sure what that is.
You don’t necessarily know that’s you and you don’t know that that’s how people see you. You know, you only know what you know and what you’re experiencing and how you see things. So as a baby, you have no head and you’re adhering to the science of the first person. Now, does that make sense?
CK: Okay. Now the second one stage as a child, you begin to get the notion of your own head.
And you start seeing yourself in the mirror and you realize that your reflection as you, and you start to realize that your actions have consequences and there’s. another way that other people see you, that you necessarily might not see yourself. You know, you might not necessarily get into such a mindful place with this notion, but you start to realize that it’s not just you and not just what you’re seeing, there’s other, you start to gain empathy, I suppose, and theory of mind, So as a child, you start learning the science of the third person.
And then does that make sense?
CK: Okay. So then the third stage where you’re an adult is where you ramp up the science of the third person. And oftentimes you, this is. The majority, or even just your exclusively in the science of the third person, where you only see yourself as how other people see yourself and you lose sight of how you see the world and how you have that space for that first person view.
And so it’s almost like how I would consider. Being subject to the supersystem and being so controlled almost by the supersystem and outside thoughts and opinions. And so in the that third stage of an adult, you almost lose, or you, some people may lose, actually lose that science of the first person and lose themselves.
And they’re only. Something in terms of how everybody else views them.
Pam: they’re only the reflection
CK: Right. Okay. So does that make sense?
Pam: It does
CK: Okay. Now finally, we get to the fourth stage and this is the stage of the Seer And I feel like this is the stage where that I’m transitioning into right now. And I’m starting to see these things. And this is the stage where.
You regain that science of the first person and you take all that you’ve had and all of your experience and that third person experience, and then build that first person experience back in so that you can start getting back the notion of having no head. And that’s kind of the transitioning I’m experiencing right now.
And over these past week, the past two weeks. And it’s this experience of becoming a Seer and opening up this world and creating the space where I can regain the first person perspective. And. I mean, it almost goes into me wanting to assert myself and integrate my subsystem into the supersystem Whereas before I was mostly concerned with the supersystem and how I acted within that system. So it’s this level, this fourth level of almost transcending the adult human stage, where you’re. Inundated by all of your past experiences and the patterns that you built up from them and the habits and cycles that you’ve fallen into.
And maybe not necessarily letting go of that, but regaining the perspective of having no head and having the space. To allow yourself and this science of the first person or this first person perspective to come back in so that you can assert yourself. So did I get that out? Okay.
Pam: You did
the funny thing is that these zodiacal chart is broken into four quadrants, which are.
CK: Wait what is it
Pam: The zodiacal chart, the astrological
Pam: Zodiacal yeah Um it is broken into four quadrants that are essentially in line with exactly what you just said. So there’s a lot of, um, You know, thous Yeah. Crossover and thousands of year old wisdom in there that are, you know, that happened in all of these different philosophies at the same time or within, you know, a thousand years of each other.
And so they’re all very, very similar. There’s also a lot of the same, um, story in the lines of the tarot it’s, it’s all kind of the same principle that you have to go through this growth and self-awareness process, and then you reintegrate it and you go through it again and reintegrate and go through it again.
CK: Wow. That’s interesting. I’ll have to look into it. Cool.
So yeah, I mean, there’s a lot of synchronicity going on and that’s why that quote by Bruce Lee stood out to me and The Headless Way has been such a profound discovery for me. And I’m going to keep practicing and looking into it more and more as I go on and I’ll share what I learn.
And in terms of synchronicity, I’ve been watching a lot of Joe Rogan this past week on YouTube. And just kind of putting him on in the background as I do stuff around the studio and the guests that he had on were Miley Cyrus and Mike Tyson.
CK: No no. They were two separate shows.
Pam: Okay. I was like, I don’t want to watch Joe Rogan, but I might watch them together.
CK: Yeah, that would be awesome.
But even separate, they were really awesome interviews, and I wouldn’t have predicted that I would relate to those two people so closely. But man, there’s just so much synchronicity going on and I don’t- maybe it’s because I’m allowing for it. I’m creating this space and allowing myself to take all these different things in, and maybe I’m seeing things and I’m more open-minded in some ways.
Or maybe it’s- this is just all happening at the right time. And there’s some effects, maybe along the lines of singularity going on. But like, I mean, Miley Cyrus was talking about brain health and she’s been a client, or patient, of Dr. Amen for awhile for a long time. Over 10 years, I think.
I don’t know if you’re familiar with Dr. Amen, but I’ve been following his work for a long time and he he’s big on SPECT scans, which are a type of brain scan that does some kind of spectral tomography with a, I think it’s like, proton emissions or positron emissions. I’m not exactly sure, but it’s along the lines of an fMRI, but it captures like, uh, maybe 10 to 15 minute, whole view of brain function. Whereas I think fMRIs are almost real time, basically.
But anyway, Miley Cyrus is talking about all this stuff around brain health and her growth as a person and- throughout her stardom, and her mindset now, and all that stuff. And it was so much in line with a lot of this stuff that we’ve been talking about, especially over the past two weeks, I would say.
And if you substituted her pop stardom and her – she’s been an actress too, I believe, right? And, like, a child actress, I think. I don’t know if she’s still acts or not, but whatever – her celebrity, if you replaced that with my upbringing as a ultra-minority, basically, it’s like it could have been an episode of Practice. Like, if you looked at the transcript and just kind of switch those two factors out, it was, like- I was blown away and I’m like, “I relate so much to Miley Cyrus.”
I would never have thought. Although, now that I think about that, I ran across an article about her a couple years ago, where she was going through a lot of growth and changes and it was really interesting and enlightening to see someone of her stature going through similar things.
So, yeah, it was interesting with Miley Cyrus and then Mike Tyson, man, I- I- I enjoy listening to Mike Tyson. He has so many life stories. But on Joe Rogan’s show, he started talking about ancient conquerers and, like, Alexander the Great and even Genghis Kahn.
And he is so interested in that history and he knows a lot, and it was fun listening to him and why he was so interested and how he translated a lot of those things into his own life and, like, the mindset and mentality. And obviously Mike Tyson is an athletic machine. He’s a beast. So I have a lot of respect for him in that sense, but just hearing him talk and just riff on this history of the ancient conquerors and stuff was really fun.
And so I relate- I related to him a lot in that sense, because he also has gone through a lot in terms of substance abuse and a lot of mental obstacles and challenges. And so he’s very- his mind seems to be in a really good place right now, and it’s cool to hear him talk.
And he’s very mindful. Like he still understands that he has these certain tendencies and, like, when he gets into the fighter’s mindset and stuff like that, like he’s mindful of, I guess, kind of moderating his mindset and making sure, or kind of keeping tabs on getting too out of hand or going overboard in some instances that, you know, may roll over into other parts of his life. So, yeah, it’s just really- it was really interesting to me to listen to how he’s grown, because I think he’s been on there within the last year or so before and he’s- he seems totally different.
And now he’s training to fight again. Yeah. Like, legit fight. I forget who his opponent was. I’m not- I should know, but it’s escaping my mind. And I’m not that big of a fight fan, but I’m just interested in it from a elite athletic point of view.
But yeah, all this synchronicity going on in with like someone with Miley- like, Miley Cyrus and Mike Tyson, who I don’t think other people would necessarily relate me to them, but it was really interesting.
Pam: Did you listen to Miley’s new album before or after you listened to that interview?
Pam: Interesting. Okay. Cause you were so excited about it and you thought that it was so good. So I was wondering if your connection to her tainted that and made you more excited about it, or if you really just were that into it.
CK: Yeah. Um, it might’ve made it better after I heard the interview, but yeah, I heard the music beforehand. All this seemed to be coming out around the same time and I think she was on Joe Rogan to promote. Yeah, but yeah, I heard the album beforehand and yeah, I love it.
Miley Cyrus’ new album is fire.
And yeah, It’s, uh- I’ve been listening to it every day.
Pam: I’m just laughing ’cause that was like the most pop culture thing that you have ever said. “Miley Cyrus’s new album is fire.”
CK: Yeah, I’m trying. That’s what the young ones are saying these days, huh?
Pam: Yeah, you could have tweeted that with a couple emojis.
CK: I’m almost afraid that it’s it’s past, like that’s like old slang already.
Pam: Saying something’s “fire”? Nah, that’s still good.
CK: Okay. Cool.
Pam: You can trust me. I’m a 41 year old. Almost.
CK: Uh, alright. Anyway, even just listening to Joe Rogan, I- I have a lot of respect for him as an interviewer and a podcaster. And obviously I’m here practicing podcasting, so I find Joe Rogan to be a good model for me. I don’t follow everything that Joe Rogan does, and I don’t necessarily agree with all of his viewpoints and all of his methodologies and ideas and strategie.
But he’s built, like, such a huge empire with his Joe Rogan Experience. He’s the biggest podcast in the world. And he just made a multimillion dollar deal with Spotify. And I mean, how can that not be a good model for me? And I, I really enjoy listening to him talk and interview and get his guests to talk and reveal various things. And I mean, he’s just talking and they’re basically just chilling with each other for two to three hours, sometimes more.
And I find it inspiring and motivating to watch him ’cause it- for him, it just seems so natural and easy and it just comes off and he has such a broad set of knowledge and. he’s just gets to chill with cool people multiple times a week and then gets to share it with millions of people. So, yeah, I like that about Joe and, you know, I pick up a lot of benefits by observing what he does.
So, yeah. I just noticed that we’re over 40 minutes, so. I could probably stop rambling and maybe cool off. It’s starting to get hot in here. So, Pam, did you have anything else that you want to- you want to talk about?
My voice is starting to crack.
Pam: I think I’m all good.
CK: Cool. Well, we’ll leave it there for this week. And before that, I guess Pam, where can people find
Pam: You can find me on Twitter where I am @Pamela_Lund. And if you do say “hi.”
CK: Yeah. And you might be able to find me on Twitter at CK disco. And I just wanted to mention that I am very much in a productive mode and I’ve been getting a lot done this past week and I plan to get a lot done this coming week, getting a lot done with Not Bad Advice. Yeah. And hopefully have the trailer coming out soon.
I know I mentioned getting that out a couple of weeks ago, but we’re making big strides now. And I just want to mention real quick that it’s really fun working on the audio for that, because I’m going back to the first episodes that we recorded and Oh my God, the audio quality is terrible compared to what we have now, but I’m able to fix it so quickly now.
So with all the stuff that I’ve been working on the past few weeks and all the troubleshooting I’m doing, I’m finally able to put it into practice and seeing what comes out of it. And what’s coming out is awesome. And it’s becoming easier and easier to get this out and processed. So it’s pretty exciting for me.
And so we’ll see what comes in the next few weeks. So yeah, I’ll leave it at that. So with that, Pam, thank you for joining me again this week.
Pam: My pleasure.
CK: you to the listeners for joining me and we’ll just keep going and hopefully get better and better. So I hope you join us next week and keep on practicing.