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In this episode of Hebrew Voices, Nothing is Forgotten, Nehemia Gordon talks with author and historian Peter Golden who has interviewed world leaders from Ronald Reagan to Yitzchak Rabin. Golden explains the origin of the word "Holocaust" in the trial of Adolf Eichmann, the critical role Soviet Jewry played in the founding of the State of Israel, and how blue jeans and rock music brought down the Soviet Union. Luci wrote: “‘Nothing is Forgotten’ was so good! We listened to it with the kids again last night! It provoked lots of excellent discussion. Thank you Nehemia!” I look forward to reading your comments! https://audio.nehemiaswall.com/Hebrew-Voices/Hebrew-Voices-Nothing-is-Forgotten.mp3 Download Nothing is Forgotten SUPPORT NEHEMIA'S RESEARCH AND TEACHINGS! Makor Hebrew Foundation is a 501c3 tax-deductible not for profit organization. Subscribe to "Nehemia's Wall" on your favorite podcasts app! iTunes | Android | Spotify | Google Play | Stitcher | TuneIn Share this Teaching on Social Media Related Posts: Jews for Guns Torah Scrolls from the Holocaust The Most Difficult Episode for Me in 2018 The Lost Scrolls of Auschwitz Hebrew Voices Episodes Support Team Studies Nehemia Gordon's Teachings on the Name of God SHOW NOTES: Peter Golden’s website Examples of the word Shoah (Holocaust) in the Bible: Isaiah 10:3 Zephaniah 1:5 Further Study: Adolf Hitler Exodus (Book) USSR The Red Army Soviet Jewry Movement Masha Bruskina Shattering the Conspiracy of Silence (Book) Jim Crow Laws Golda Meir Fiddler on the Roof (Movie) Joseph Stalin Chairman Mao Camp David Andwar Sadat Zyklon B Gas Anne Frank The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich (Book) Ben Gurion Adolf Eichman Pound of Flesh Gideon Hausner The Final Solution Mad Men (TV Show) Nazism Wernher von Braun Herberts Cukurs (aka Hangman of Riga; Butcher of Riga) Hannah Arendt (Banality of Evil) Son of Saul (Movie) Elie Wiesel Night (Book) The relationship between testimony and fiction Fantasy and Witnessing, Post War Efforts to Experience the Holocaust (Book) Blood Libel Band of Brother (Miniseries) Heinrich Himmler The post Hebrew Voices #69 – Nothing is Forgotten (Rebroadcast) appeared first on Nehemia's Wall.

In this episode of The Original Torah Pearls, Shemini (Leviticus 9:1-11:47), we discuss the blessing of fire falling from Heaven, the sin of strange fire offered by Aaron’s sons, and the judgement of fire from Yehovah! Also, listen in as Nehemia … Continue reading → The post Torah Pearls #26 – Shemini (Leviticus 9:1-11:47) appeared first on Nehemia's Wall.

In this episode of Hebrew Voices, Easter Miracle of the Holy Fire, Nehemia Gordon speaks again with Dr. Richard Carrier, an historian specializing in ancient philosophy, religion and science. Gordon and Carrier begin by discussing the annual miracle claimed by the Greek Orthodox Church at the Church of the Holy Sepulchre but go on to compare notes on miracles and magic from ancient times through the 21st century. With at times differing opinions, the two discuss: Bel and the Dragon, Alexander the Great and the horned snake, the Rood of Grace, the Second Temple miracles as described in the Babylonian Talmud, as well as the showdown between Elijah and the false prophets on Mount Carmel. Gordon and Carrier also respond to the writings of Maimonides, Herodotus, Lucian and Josephus—and their accounts or exposés of ancient scams that caused statues to move, sweat, bleed or illuminate—tricking people out of their cash or inspiring them to believe. Gordon concludes this Hebrew Voices with prayer and encourages listeners not to allow anyone’s skepticism to shake their faith, but to rather establish their faith on a solid foundation of Yehovah and his Torah—which provides instruction for discerning the source and purpose of miracles. https://audio.nehemiaswall.com/Hebrew-Voices/Hebrew-Voices-Easter-Miracle-of-the-Holy-Fire.mp3 Download Podcast Transcript Nehemia Gordon: Shalom. This is Nehemia Gordon with Hebrew Voices. I'm back in Jerusalem, once again speaking with Dr. Richard Carrier, who is over in California. We had Dr. Carrier on a few months ago, in an episode call The Truth About Christmas and Tammuz. Today Dr. Carrier is back. We are going to talk about ancient miracles and magic and how that plays out even today in the 21st century. Shalom Dr. Carrier. Dr. Richard Carrier: Hello. It's good to be here. Nehemia Gordon: Let me just give a little background on you. Richard Carrier has a PhD in the history of philosophy from Columbia University, is a published philosopher and historian, specializing in contemporary philosophy of naturalism and in Greco-Roman philosophy science and religion and the origins of Christianity. He blogs regularly, lectures for community groups worldwide and teaches courses online. He is the author of many books including Sense and Goodness without God, On The Historicity of Jesus and Proving History. He has also written chapters and several anthologies and articles in academic journals. For more about Dr. Carrier and his work see RichardCarrier.info. Last time, when I introduced Dr. Carrier, I mentioned that he's an atheist and I had people write to me afterwards and say, we're not going to listen to this, the man's an atheist, we don't want to hear what he has to say. And I said, you know what, give it a try and tell me what you think. And most people who listened to the episode said, "wow, we got a different perspective, we don't agree with a lot of what he says, but we learned a lot". You're an expert in ancient religion and that's what we'll mostly be talking about today Dr. Carrier. What made me want to do this episode is something that is referred to as the Easter Miracle of the Fire. I want to start with that. I'm here in Jerusalem and in Jerusalem we have what's called The Church of the Holy Seplecture, which is for many Christians the most important place in the world. Its church was founded in the fourth century, they say by the mother of Constantine, the Emperor. She had a vision about the place where Jesus was crucified and went to that place and what they call the true cross, which means not like the cross in your church, but the one on which he was actually crucified. Ever since, there has been a church there. The Greek Orthodox Church has a lot of influence there. They've really been there the whole time or some form of them has been there the whole time. And they have this annual miracle that takes place in the church. They say going back over a thousand years. Maybe with some breaks when the Crusaders came. But basically, maybe even back to the time of Constantine, according to some sources I read. They call it the Holy Fire or the Easter Miracle of the Holy Fire and I want to start with that and then launch into some other discussions about other ancient miracles. Let me just read to you from holyfire.org. It says "The Holy Fire is the most renowned miracle in the world of Eastern Orthodoxy. It has taken place at the same time, in the same manner, in the same place every single year for centuries. No other miracle is known to occur so regularly and so steadily over time." I got to say, just from that description I'm a little skeptical. Dr. Carrier, what are your thoughts on that? Dr. Richard Carrier: They're really pushing that. We haven't described the miracle yet. Nehemia Gordon: Let me briefly describe the miracle. So, the Greek Orthodox patriarch, which is the head of the Greek Orthodox Church in Israel, or in Jerusalem at least. He goes into the tomb of Jesus or the place the Greek Orthodox believe is the tomb of Jesus. If you're Protestant, you put it somewhere else. He walks in with an unlit candle and it says on their website, holyfire.org, "The Israeli authorities come and seal the tomb with wax. Before they seal the door, they check for any hidden source of fire, which would make a fraud of the miracle." It's interesting, they're starting out saying, we know you're skeptical, so this has been verified by nonbelievers. By people who aren't part of our church, who are maybe even hostile towards the church. They compare the Israeli authority to the Romans on their website. I disagree with that analogy. And then they have this description of the Orthodox patriarch, a man named Diador, but long story short, he walks in the with the candle unlit, it's miraculously lit and he walks out and this candle is lit and he lights everybody else's candle. He's a scribe. He says "I enter the tomb and kneel in holy fear in front of that place where Christ laid after his death. Here I say certain prayers, that have been handed down to us through the centuries and having said that I wait. Sometimes I may wait a few minutes, but normally the miracle happens immediately after I have said the prayers. From the core of the very stone on which Jesus lay, an indefinable light pours forth. It usually has a blue tint, but the color may change and take many different hues. It cannot be described in human terms. The light rises out of the stone as mist may rise out of a lake. It almost looks as if the stone is covered by a moist cloud, but it is light. This light each year behaves differently. Sometimes it covers just the stone, while other times it gives light to the whole sepulchre." By the way "sepulchre" is a fancy word for "grave" or "tomb". Diador goes on "So that people who stand outside the tomb and look into it will see it filled with light. The light does not burn." It's interesting he give a whole description of how the light doesn't burn and I think he's trying to draw an analogy there to what the book of Exodus describes with the burning bush. It burned with fire, but it didn't consume. He talks about how his beard doesn't burn, even though there is this big flame around him. He goes on "The light is of a different consistency than normal fire that burns in an oil lamp. At a certain point the light rises and forms a column in which the fire is of a different nature, so that I am able to light my candles from it." So now the Greek Orthodox patriarch lights his candles from this miraculous flame. He goes on "When I thus have received the flame on my candles, I go out and give the fire first to the Armenian Patriarch and then to the Coptic. Hereafter I give the flame to all people present in the Church." Thousands of people every year witness this. Well, what they witness I guess, is him going into the tomb with an unlit candle and he comes out with the candle lit. They don't witness what goes on inside the tomb. And they make a big deal on this website, holyfire.org and on other websites that there have been occasions in the past where the Catholics for Arminian Christians took over the church and they tried to perform the miracle and it failed. And their conclusion is very clear. They say it in no uncertain terms, the Greek Orthodox Church is the one true religion. Not just Christianity, but specifically the Greek Orthodox Church. That's their conclusion from this annual miracle that takes place every year. (Dr. Carrie laughs) Look, I'm prime not to believe in it. I'm a Jew. I'm not Greek Orthodox, so I'm very skeptical going into this and there are a few possibilities. One is that that the Greek Orthodox Church is the one true religion. Number two is that this is sleight of hand or trickery, and that's what I want to talk about today. I want to bring two other possibilities, though. I know many of my Christian listeners are saying this is a demonic force or some type of super natural magic. One Jewish response would be no, this is a genuine miracle in the spirit of Deuteronomy 13. It talks in Deuteronomy 13 that there will be a false prophet who has genuine power. That God grants him that power in order to say, you don't want to believe what I have to say in the five books of Moses, the Torah, ok believe your delusions. They'll be prophets who will rise up and perform miracles and they'll be true miracles, but they're a test. And I'm sure that you laugh at that, but ok, that's because you're coming from a different perspective. Those are four possibilities. Dr. Richard Carrier: You're right though, those are all things that you'd have to rule out, before you could get to the Greek Orthodox conclusion. They aren't presenting any way to rule all of those things out. Nehemia Gordon: I'm not so sure you have to rule them out. Meaning if you're starting out already believing in the Greek Orthodox Church, this confirms what you already believe. Doesn't it? Dr. Richard Carrier: Unless it's one of those other things, then you're being fooled. You're either being fooled by demons, or by God, or by the patriarch performing the ritual. I've done this sort of thing for about 15 years, reading up on research of sceptics who go and investigate miracles. And miracles include things like pseudo-science and psionic powers. Nehemia Gordon: I don't know what psionic powers are, so you have to explain that. Dr. Richard Carrier: Psionic powers are things like being psychic, being able to levitate things. Uri Geller is a classic example. Nehemia Gordon: He's Israeli, by the way. Dr. Richard Carrier: I know, yes. Nehemia Gordon: I'm ashamed of that, but go on. Dr. Richard Carrier: Oh and faith healing and all of that. So there have been lots of these investigations. Nehemia Gordon: So tell people what Uri Geller was, because I don't know that many people know. Dr. Richard Carrier: Oh, that's a good point. Yeah, that was from long ago. Nehemia Gordon: That was from the 70s, wasn't it? Dr. Richard Carrier: Yes. Uri Geller claimed to have the ability to bend spoons with his mind and to move things on tables with mere thought and things like that. And James Randi, who's a famous investigator of the paranormal, basically exposed him. Figured out all his tricks. Exposed him on national television. And Uri Geller sued him over that, but lost. He never won the case. In any event, Randi went on to create the Randi Prize. Right now it's a million-dollar prize to anyone who can prove… They have to meet their scientific protocols. If you can come up with a valid scientific protocol with which we can prove you have this ability or this power or this miracle exists, you can claim the million dollars. Nehemia Gordon: Do you know whether the Greek Orthodox have tried to claim this million dollars? Dr. Richard Carrier: I'm sure they would not, because it would require an actual scientific investigation of the miracle. I seriously doubt they would permit that to happen. They would come up with their excuses "because it would be profane" or whatever. But I think the reality is they would discover the trick. Nehemia Gordon: But we don't know, because it hasn't been tested. I'll tell the audience up front, I do believe in miracles. But I don't believe in what I believe, because of miracles and that's in an important distinction. Dr. Richard Carrier: Yeah, that is a good one. Nehemia Gordon: So Maimonides, who was the famous Jewish Rabbi in the twelfth century… let me read a quote from him. He writes "The Jews did not believe in Moses our teacher, because of the wonders he performed. Whenever anyone's belief is based on wonders, the commitment of his heart has shortcomings, because it's possible to perform a wonder through magic or sleight of hand." Imagine, he writes this in the twelfth century. That's pretty cool. Dr. Richard Carrier: Yeah. And they knew that in the ancient world too. Nehemia Gordon: So let's talk about that. Let's talk about some examples from the ancient world. You had mentioned to me in an e-mail, something that I should have brought and didn't even think of. It's Bel and the Dragon. Tell us what that is and what happens there. Dr. Richard Carrier: There's an extended version of the book of Daniel, it has an extra chapter or two in which one of the many things Daniel does for the Babylonian court is they have this miracle in this temple, where they seal the temple and supposedly the god eats all this food they leave in there. I can't remember how Daniel got into this position of claiming this was a fake miracle. And he said he had a way he could test this, and I think his life was on the line over this. If your test fails and it turns out to be a miracle, then we are going to kill you. Nehemia Gordon: And what they said was, if we wake up in the morning and the temple is sealed and all the sacrifices are eaten, it must be the god and you'll be put to death. Dr. Richard Carrier: Yeah. That's right. Nehemia Gordon: And he says, ok let's see this. Dr. Richard Carrier: Yeah, so I don't remember what material he uses. Was it flour? He covers the floor in something. Nehemia Gordon: With some fine powder, yeah. Dr. Richard Carrier: Yeah. He covers the floor in something. I'm assuming he did that under concealment. He must have worked that out with the Babylonian king. Nehemia Gordon: Yeah. So basically, Daniel is the James Randi of the fifth century BC or whenever this took place. Dr. Richard Carrier: Truly, Lucian of Samosata is the closer analogy to Randi, because he actually went around debunking things. And the things that Lucian was discovering are classic scams that are still being performed today. But back to Bel and the Dragon. Daniel covers the floor. They officially seal it and they confirm it's all sealed. The food is already in there. Then the next morning, they break the seal and go in and all the food is gone, but there's tons of little human footprints everywhere, showing people came from secret doors to come in and eat and abscond with the food. Therefore, he proved it was all just a trick. There were secret doors, people who were assigned the task of making the food disappear in order to make the miracle. But this is probably a fictional story. I doubt this ever really happened. Nehemia Gordon: It's not in the Hebrew or actually Aramaic version of Daniel. It only appears later in the Greek. But whether it happened or not, sometime around 200 BC, the Jews were… I mean this is my take and you tell me if you understand it differently. The Jews were confronted with these apparent miracles and their skeptical response was to say, no that's just a trick, it's sleight of hand. Dr. Richard Carrier: Yeah. Nehemia Gordon: You mentioned Lucian of Samosata. I don't remember whether we talked about him last time in The Truth About Christmas and Tammuz. I don't think we did. Anyway, he has two books that I really recommend you guys read. They're online. You can read translations in English. One is called The Syrian Goddess, and it's interesting, because there you have the opposite of what you read in his other book, which is called Alexander the False Prophet or Alexander the Quack Prophet. In Alexander the False Prophet, he's very skeptical. In The Syrian Goddess, he believes this. He seems to believe it. To the point where I think some scholars have said maybe it's two different authors. Dr. Richard Carrier: Or it's not clear the purpose of the Syrian Goddess, as a treatise is. Because it's very unlike his usual stuff and he's written other books. Like, he's written a book called True History, in which a million absurd things happen. Nehemia Gordon: And so, is he skeptical of those things? Dr. Richard Carrier: Yes, of course. He's making fun of historians who write wild tales. Nehemia Gordon: So what's an example of the type of thing you'd find in ancient history, that even Lucian would have said can't be true, that didn't really happen? Dr. Richard Carrier: They had miracles. There's the story of Alexander the Great being led through the desert by a talking horse-snake. Or even just implausible historical events, where someone won a battle, they couldn't possibly have won. One of my favorite examples is there's two accounts of the Battle of Gaugamela, where Alexander the Great crosses a river to engage the Persians. In one account they meet on opposite sides of the river and camp. At night Alexander's army goes down the river ford and attacks them by surprise on the other side of the river. Now there's another account, where they meet in the day and Alexander the Great, himself, charges across the river and just goes pell-mell into the Persians and starts fighting them and then his soldiers come. And that's ridiculous. Even Lucian would have said that's ridiculous. Nehemia Gordon: That's actually a lot more plausible than some of the stuff we are talking about here, but it's still unlikely is what you're saying. Meaning, if you have two versions… Dr. Richard Carrier: Exactly. It's something that could literally have happened, that doesn't require a miracle, it's just not probable. Dr. Richard Carrier: Yeah, so there's that. But Lucian also wrote another book that I would recommend people read on this subject, which is The Lover of Lies. It's a dialogue where he's having these conversations with these believers and miracles. You get very good exposure to the gamut of what kinds of supernatural were common of the time. These were pagans claiming powers of sorcerers and faith healing and magic rocks and all of this stuff. So you get his skeptical take on it. Ghost stories come up in there and various things. He talks about what's really going on or why they're ridiculous or why they never pan out. So you get this sceptic's view of the whole gamut of the kinds of typical beliefs of the period. So, that's The Lover of Lies. But Alexander the Quack Prophet is the best one, because it's a first person account of Lucian going to this town to investigate this guy and he turns out to be a Popoff sort of character who has all these magic… Nehemia Gordon: Who is Popoff? Dr. Richard Carrier: Popoff is one of the faith healers who got exposed by James Randi. Nehemia Gordon: I want to read a passage from The Syrian Goddess, where Lucian, who I think was born around the year 125 AD and was from what today would be Turkey. It's funny, because he's exposing all these other religions, but when it comes to what seems to be his religion, it seems like he really believes it. Dr. Richard Carrier: Yeah. I think Lucian is Samosatan, which I can't remember exactly where that is now. It's Northern Syria. I can't remember where the border between Turkey and Syria is. Nehemia Gordon: Well that might change by next week anyway. Dr. Richard Carrier: Right. Lucian himself identified himself as Syrian. Nehemia Gordon: All right. So he says "The Temple of Hierapolis possess some splendid masterpieces, some venerable offerings, many rare sights, many striking statues and the gods make their presence felt in no doubtful way." That's an amazing statement. Dr. Richard Carrier: From him, yes. Nehemia Gordon: Like there's no room not to have faith here, because you're experiencing the gods through these manifestations and events. He said "The statues sweat and move and uttering oracles. And a shout has often been raised when the temple was closed." That reminded me of Bel and the Dragon. That in itself might have been the source of Bel and the Dragon. I had a professor once at Hebrew University, I wish I could find the source, he was an expert in Greek and Roman religions, and he said there is a source somewhere, where there is a pagan who is mocking the Christians and the Jews saying, you believe in this invisible god, but when we go to the temples, we see miracles happen and this might be the source of what he's talking about, I'm not sure. Meaning what Lucian is writing here. Because clearly, if you saw the statues sweat and move and speak and you hear the shouts at night… So the Jews would say, there's a secret door. Dr. Richard Carrier: Yeah, right. Those are all known tricks. We even have one of the engineering manuals for how to build some of those. Nehemia Gordon: Tell us about that. Dr. Richard Carrier: Heron of Alexandria is the greatest engineering writers that we have surviving from the Roman era. He wrote in the first century AD. He wrote many books on various subjects. One of them is Pneumatics, which is on air and water powered machinery. The way he introduces the book is first he has a whole scientific introduction talking about this is how we understand, and the physics of air and water and he has this whole experiment showing how vacuums work and air pressure and so forth. Nehemia Gordon: Basically, the average person didn't know about this. Dr. Richard Carrier: Right, exactly. Absolutely, not back then. Even some educated people might not have known. Some of the stuff was fairly obscure and philosophers sometimes weren't very good at communicating accurate science. Nehemia Gordon: Like today. Dr. Richard Carrier: Yes. Except it was worse back then, because popular knowledge wasn't very vast. There were no TV documentaries. There was no Cosmos with Neil DeGrasse Tyson. So the quality of information that trickled down to the public, even among the elite isn't necessarily great. But people who were in the sciences, people who studied sciences, usually knew this stuff pretty well or people who on their own studied them. Lucian clearly knew some of the stuff pretty well. So Heron wrote this book, and in the rest of it he says, I'm going to describe all these little machines that can do these things, but the point of this is that you can then take all of these ideas and assemble them to make new things. So even though he is describing specific machines, that serve specific purposes, it's clearly understood what was done, was the people would make more elaborate machines, by combining the ideas that were in there. So this isn't even a complete list. Nehemia Gordon: And by the way, there's a great documentary called Machines of the Gods from Ancient Discoveries, and it actually shows some of these machines. Basically they were being used to trick people into what Lucian is describing. The statues are sweating and they're moving and they're uttering oracles Dr. Richard Carrier: That's right. All of those things. Nehemia Gordon: Meaning this was technology they were using to trick people to believe in their religions. Dr. Richard Carrier: Yes, as far as we can tell. Yeah, that's what they were doing or I think there's money in this too. Nehemia Gordon: Let me read you the rest of this passage from The Syrian Goddess, section 10. It says "The statues sweat and move and utter oracles and a shout has often been raised when the temple is closed. It has been heard by many." Like, this is a fact. You can't dispute it, he's saying. He says, "And more, this temple is the principle source of their wealth, as I can vouch. For much money comes to them from Arabia and from the Phoenicians and the Babylonians and the Cilicians too and the Assyrians bring their tribute." In other words, look this is real. People all over the world believe this and bring money to this. Of course we hear this in the twenty-first century and we're like wait a minute. So you're saying there's a technology manual describing how to perform these miracles? Dr. Richard Carrier: Yes, how to build these machines. The machines will make spontaneous noise, basically fog horns, the equivalent of. You can do spontaneous fire. You do something that will spontaneously cause fire to appear in a pit or something. Nehemia Gordon: So that's kind of like the Easter Miracle of Fire in the Church of the Holy Sepulchre. Dr. Richard Carrier: Yes. I'm pretty sure they are using a different trick there, but they had stuff like this. They had automated doors, doors could open and close supposedly on their own and various other things like that. Nehemia Gordon: So like we walk into Walmart and see that and we're not impressed, but back then they're like this is the gods manifesting their power. There's no other explanation. Dr. Richard Carrier: Yeah and one of the ones that was very common were little puppet theaters. They would have these little tiny theaters. These puppets would come on and act a whole play and there would be curtain calls and there would be lightening sounds. There would be all kinds of stuff happening and they would act out this whole play and then stop and they would put it on a pedestal, so you could be absolutely certain there was no person inside manipulating. So you'd be like how do you explain this, this is amazing. Of course it was just basically a sand weight usually. Sand or seed weight device that allowed a heavy weight to fall and it would pull on cords and these cords were attached to this elaborate, essentially what we would call, a program. It was essentially the software of cogs and wheels all set up in a certain way, so that as you pulled it, it would go through all the motions of all the steps. So you could program any of these things, by setting the cogs and wheels in such a way. It's kind of like mousetrap, where you start one thing and it just goes through this cascade of events. Nehemia Gordon: Oh I loved that game when I was a kid. Dr. Richard Carrier: Yeah, but think of more elaborate versions of that. Nehemia Gordon: And the point is they can't see the gears and mechanism inside. Dr. Richard Carrier: Correct. They can't see any of this. Nehemia Gordon: So in the mousetrap analogy, you flick the marble and then you have no idea what's happening, but all of the sudden, something at the end is then triggered. And you're saying they looked at that and said the gods are real, it's really clear. Dr. Richard Carrier: Yeah, theoretically that was how they were using it. It was certainly to amaze. To what extent they were really pushing the miracle aspect of it, is hard to say, because we don't actually have writings from that side of it. We just know they existed. We know elites talked about them. The writings we have about it, is that people knew about it. Aristotle was aware of how these puppet theaters worked. Galen is an example, where he even used the puppet theaters as an analogy for how the fetus grows in the womb. So there were scientists who were aware of this, but the question is how widely was this knowledge available. And we know that's an issue, because Plutarch wrote some writings about this problem of the disconnect between elites knowing this stuff and the public not. And the public not liking it when the elite debunked miracles. Plutarch talks about that too. Nehemia Gordon: Let's dwell on that for a moment, because I know there are going to be people who are going to listen to this podcast and say, here is this non-believing Jew, and by non-believing they mean that I'm not a Christian. Here this non-believing Jew, is getting together with the atheist, to slam the Greek Orthodox Miracle of the Fire on Easter. And look, when I was deciding whether or not to do this episode, the thing that came to mind for me, was something known as the Easter Massacre of 1506. That was an event that took place in Lisbon, April of 1506. There were hundreds of thousands of Jews who had been forcibly converted to Catholithism in Portugal. They were living as Christians and then there was a miracle which supposedly took place, where during this famine everyone was praying in a church and somebody said they saw the face of Christ on the alter and it was suddenly illuminated. Everyone professed it was a miracle, except for one Jew who said no, that's the light reflecting off of it from the candle. And after that 4,000 Jews were massacred in a period of a two or three day. This Jewish skepticism has led to people being killed, so I was hesitant to do this. Look, if this offends you listeners, turn it off, it's totally fine. What's important to me is to see that this is the type of thing that was going on in ancient times and is still going on today, that is tricking people. I do believe there are genuine miracles, but there are also things out there that are tricking people. And some of these so called miracles, the people doing them, it's really cynical. If the Greek Orthodox patriarch is… and look you can read this on line. There's suggestions of how he does this. I posted a video on NehemiasWall.com, which shows a modern Greek person on Greek television showing how you can reproduce this miracle very easily by dipping the candles in something called white phosphorous. It takes about twenty minutes exposed to air and then it will ignite spontaneously. Spontaneously? It's a chemical compound. Dr. Richard Carrier: What they do is they take the white phosphorous and you put it in some kind of compound that evaporates, so that's your time, because as soon as white phosphorous comes into contact with the air, it ignites. There are a variety of materials that do this, as soon as they contact air, they spontaneously ignite. It's well-known chemistry, so we have lots of materials. White phosphorous is the most common one. Nehemia Gordon: The point is, today it's well-known and millions of people are still tricked by it. And back then nobody had any idea, or certainly the common man had no idea. If the Greek Orthodox patriarch really is dipping his candles in white phosphorous and he knows that he's deceiving people… Dr. Richard Carrier: That's probably what it really comes down to. Do you trust them to be honest with this? I think, from the perspective of an atheist, from a sceptic, my concern is, we've caught people doing these kind of fake miracles so many times. In fact, every time we have been able to scientifically investigate one of the things, it always turns out to be different than what they claimed. It always turned out to be some sort of natural phenomenon or trick or whatever. Not all of them are tricks. Sometimes people believe something is supernatural which really in fact is not. Nehemia Gordon: In other words, there's innocent false miracles out there, and the example that comes to mind for me is… I don't want to give any specific examples, because I'll offend people. But there's definitely situations I've seen out there, where people innocently believe that something supernatural is happening and it's not. But this is a different situation, where the patriarch knows he's deceiving people. Dr. Richard Carrier: Yeah, it has to be a deliberate thing. But it's the same kind of motivation that the ancient pagan temples had to bring people in and inspire their faith. There may be money involved as well. Nehemia Gordon: So let's go back to Lucian of Samosata, you were going to quote from the Quack Prophet. Dr. Richard Carrier: So Lucian stumbled across this guy Alexander in the town Abonoteichos. Alexander was basically starting his own religious cult. He had tricked people into thinking he had discovered this supernatural human headed snake and this human headed snake would talk to you and give oracles and stuff. So people come to this temple to see this human headed snake, who is Glycon, the son of god. And the god Apollo, as the case may be. So people would come to see this god. They would have sealed envelopes with their questions, that they would submit, and then the envelope would come back, I think with the answer in it, or something like that, but still sealed. Oh, it's magic, right? And things like this. There are various different things that were going on. And Lucian knew how some of these tricks were done, so he figured out like James Randi did. He figured out ways to catch them at it, and he writes about it in there. How he figured out the trick, how he unseals and reseals envelopes and things like that, to get the thing in. This is the other thing that I want to point out, these are well-known tricks. Nehemia Gordon: So basically from what I remember reading, it's absolutely amazing, it will take you an hour to read, it's amazing, I'll post a link on my website, NehemiasWall.com. What I remember is, they would write their question on an envelope, it would be sealed with wax and it would be given to the god and then they would get an answer back. Surely none of the priests were giving the answer, because the envelope was sealed. What you are saying, is basically they figured out how to unseal it without anybody knowing. Dr. Richard Carrier: Yeah and Lucian talks about different ways. But I have to remind you, go to a Penn and Teller show in Las Vegas, they do all of these things. They literally do those kind of tricks with sealed envelopes and stuff like that. So these are well-known tricks. And Penn and Teller will end their show by saying, we have no supernatural powers, we are liars. Nehemia Gordon: I want to give a modern example of that from the twentieth century. When I was in high school, I knew these guys who went to Skokie Yeshiva, which is a Rabbinical academy of Talmudic study. They would brag to everybody that one of the Rabbis at Skokie Yeshiva would perform miracles. He was a very learned Kabbalist. And he would regularly perform a miracle, where he would tell the students to open up the Talmud, which is thousands of pages in length. They would open up a volume, he wouldn't know which one. And he'd tell them to point to any place in the Talmud and then, without seeing what they were pointing to, would recite verbatim what they were pointing to. I didn't believe in the Talmud. I'm what's known as a Karaite Jew. And they would come to me and say, Nehemia, how can you not believe in the Talmud? The Rabbi does this. He does this regularly. He does it all the time. And even at the time, I'm thinking, so, I saw this at the Blackstone Theater with David Copperfield. Dr. Richard Carrier: He did the same trick? Nehemia Gordon: He did something similar to that. Dr. Richard Carrier: So do Penn and Teller. Nehemia Gordon: So they didn't do it with the Talmud. Maybe this guy had a photographic memory and that was part of the trick. I don't know how the trick worked. And I told them, I don't know how the trick works, but I know it's a trick and your faith can't be based on that. If that's what your faith is based on, then according to Maimonides it's not valid. Dr. Richard Carrier: Right. Look at it this way, when you see something that we know is a known trick… For example, this candle thing, where the guy he has to be out of view of people, and it's just one candle, and it spontaneously ignites, which we know is a natural phenomenon that can be rigged. A real miracle, would not have all of these veils to try and conceal what's really going on. Right? It wouldn't be such a trivial thing. Like, the candle lit, wow. I mean real miracles would be like real freakin' miracles. Like the sky turns green before everyone. Things that could not be staged. Nehemia Gordon: This is actually the point of Maimonides. In one of the passages he says, the Jewish faith isn't based on miracles. Yes, Moses performed miracles, because they needed manna or they needed water. But he wasn't performing miracles to convince people. He said, the reason we believe in the Jewish faith, is because the revelation of Sinai was witnessed by 3,000,000 people. Now, you might not believe that happened. But if you do believe it was witnessed by 3,000,000 people, it's not a miracle in a secret room somewhere that takes place. It's something that was, from our perspective… this is a fact of history and we can debate that history. But from our perspective, it's a fact of history, and that's what convinces us, not the miracles that took place. And yeah, miracles they may reinforce your faith, is kind of the Jewish perspective. But you shouldn't believe in something because of the miracles, because there's sleight of hand and according to Deuteronomy 13, there's even God empowering false prophets to perform these miracles. I want to read a passage from Lucian of Samosata's, Alexander the Quack Prophet or the False Prophet. He's describing here this godlike con, which is the snake. What's amazing to me, is that he's writing this in the first century, about this mechanical device. Dr. Richard Carrier: Second century. Nehemia Gordon: Oh, second century. And people are being tricked by this mechanical device. It's not even on the level of Heron of Alexandria. I actually read that Heron of Alexandria is considered the inventor of the steam engine, because some of his devices are primitive steam engines. Dr. Richard Carrier: Yeah, he uses steam as a mode of power in a lot of his devices. Nehemia Gordon: So he's using this to trick people. They're very sophisticated devices with Heron of Alexandria. But with Glycon, this false god, I mean it's really primitive stuff. He writes, "They had long ago prepared [they meaning Alexander and his cohorts] and fitted up a serpent's head of linen, which is something of a human look, was all painted up and appeared very lifelike. It would open and close its mouth, by means of horsehairs, [in other words there were little strings] and a forked black tongue like a snake's, also controlled by horsehairs, would dart out." Now that wasn't enough to trick people, because then they had a real snake, that you put your hand in and you'd feel. It was a tame snake that wouldn't bite you, but people didn't know in that part of the world about tame snakes, that was part of the trick. He goes on, "We must excuse those men of Paphlagonia and Pontus, thick-witted, uneducated fellows that they were, for being deluded when they touched the serpent— Alexander let anyone do so who wished—and besides saw in a dim light what was purported to be its head opening and shutting its mouth." In other words, they stick their hand in this little dark room, where they can't see anything, and they feel a snake and then they see this head moving, and that's supposed to be the words of the oracle coming out. It's really primitive stuff. Here's what amazes me about this. In 1538, King Henry VIII, sent around his agents to destroy the monasteries, this is when he started the Anglican Church in England. The monasteries were a major source of wealth, and so he decided to plunder them. We have a letter that's written by Jeffery Chambers and Thomas Cromwell on February 7, 1538. He says, "Upon the defacing of the late Monastery of Boxley and plucking down of the images of the same, I found in the image of the Roode, called the Roode of Grace…" I'm going to stop here for a second and explain. In Old English, even in modern English, a Roode, spelled R-O-O-D-E, is a stature kind of a crucifix that separates the worshippers from the back area, part of a chancel screen. Basically, it's a crucifix. So there was this famous Roode, called the Roode of Grace, a famous crucifix. He says, "I found in the image of the Roode, called the Roode of Grace, which heretofore has been had in great veneration of the people, certain engines and old wire…" Meaning inside he found certain engines and old wire. "…with old rotten sticks in the back of the same, that did cause the eyes of the same to move and stir in the head thereof like unto a living thing, and also the nether lip likewise to move, as though it should speak…" The amazing thing is we have descriptions from before this, that pilgrims would come from France to ask their questions of the Roode of Grace, and they would see eyes move and the lips move, and then that was then interpreted by a priest, that yes your request has been accepted, because the lips moved. And Lucian describes almost the same thing in the Syrian Goddess. In section 32 he says, "The greatest wonder of all, I will precede to tell. The Syrian goddess bears a gem on her head." I'll skip ahead. There's light coming from the gem. He says, "There's also another marvel in this image, if you stand over against it, it looks you in the face and as you pass it, the gaze still follows you. And if another approaching from a different quarter looks at it, he is similarly affected." So imagine that, Lucian is writing in the second century, about this statue of a Syrian goddess in Syria, I guess. And 1,400 years later there are people coming from France and being tricked by the same thing with the Roode of Grace. This blows my mind. Why didn't Lucian apply the same skepticism to the Syrian goddess as he did to Glycon and Alexander the False Prophet? Dr. Richard Carrier: We don't know what the literary exercise is, because Lucian himself was an Epicurean, so he was definitely not a believer in miracles. So there is no way in which he believes the things he's writing in the Syrian Goddess, that's why some have suggested it wasn't written by him. But it could also have just been a literary exercise, possibly something he was hired to write for the temple. We know Lucian took certain jobs and even wrote a defense of himself taking hired jobs to do things, because apparently it was ignominious to do. So, it's entirely possible it was a commissioned piece or it's something where he wrote it just to see if people would fall for it. You know, something like that kind of thing. Other than that we don't know. Nehemia Gordon: I got to wonder if somebody else didn't write this, because it doesn't sound like his other stuff. Dr. Richard Carrier: Right, exactly. It very well may be someone else. Nehemia Gordon: So, we've been talking about these Greek and Roman examples, and I want to jump to a Jewish source here. The reason I'm bringing this, is because a lot of people will be listening to this and saying, you're this Karaite Jew, you're skeptical, but this skepticism is really an inherit part of the Jewish tradition. You brought the example of Bel and the Dragon, that somebody sometime around 150 or 200 BC is saying yeah the miracles that take place in the pagan temples that's trickery, but there's this other Jewish source that talks about the encounter with the prophets of Baal on Mount Carmel. That's the famous scene where Elijah faces 400 prophets of Baal and they are both supposed to invoke the miracle of a fire coming down from heaven and somehow spontaneously lighting their sacrifice. And the Rabbis ask a question, and it's a valid question, so what were the prophets of Baal thinking? They must have known they couldn't have performed this miracle. It's an amazing question. The Rabbis conclusion is they had hidden a man inside the alter, and in Jewish tradition they were even able to name the man. A man named Chiel the Bethelite or Chiel of Bethel. He's mentioned in the Hebrew Bible as the man who rebuilt Jericho, not connected to this event. He's some obscure reference in one verse as the man who rebuilt Jericho, but in this Jewish legend, which I don't know how to date it. In other words, this may have been written a thousand years after the story. But the point is, the Rabbis were asking this question, how on earth did the prophets of Baal think they could pull this off? Let me read you what it says here. This is from Yalkut Shimoni, 1Kings, Remez 214. It says "they hopped around the alter that he made". Let me skip passed that. Ok, it says, "Chiel of Bethel made the alter hallow and they placed him inside and said to him, 'When you hear the sound [or that can be translated as when you hear the thunder], immediately stir the fire that is in your hand, and light the alter from underneath'. The Holy One, blessed be He, immediately summoned the snake that bit Chiel and he died." And the really cool thing is, there's this synagogue in Syria, at a place called Dura-Europos, which has all these paintings, all these frescos, and one of the frescos, scholars looked at it and said, all the other ones are scenes from the Bible, this one is not from the Bible, we have no idea what it refers to. And so Jewish scholars came along and said, that's Chiel of Bethel. It was a man inside an alter and a snake coming to bite him. I actually posted that as the image of this week's episode. It's amazing. The synagogue of Dura-Europos is from the third century AD and that means in the third century AD, the Jews were dealing with this same issue, that there were these pagan temples and there were all these miracles being performed at the temples. From the perspective of the Jews, this was a trick and it had always been trickery. I want to read a passage from Maimonides that I think you will appreciate, Dr. Carrier. He's talking about magic and miracles, which from his perspective is sleight of hand and he says, "All of the above matters are falsehood and lies with which the original idolaters deceive the gentle nations in order to lead them after them." In other words, all of these miracles, all of these supernatural events that we see taking place, and he's talking there about magic and astrology. But he's saying this is ancient stuff from when idolatry was first invented. The leaders of the idolaters, their priests, used these to trick people. I can't believe Maimonides had read Heron of Alexandria, but he I guess intuitively figured out the same type of thing was going on. That's pretty cool and it's also scary to think this thing is also going on in the twenty-first century. I grew up in Chicago and I remember there was once on the nightly news this statue of, I think it was the virgin Mary, that was crying blood from her eyes. Doesn't Heron of Alexandria describe how to perform that trick? Dr. Richard Carrier: I don't know if he does. He describes machinery that can do it. Nehemia Gordon: Well, he doesn't describe the virgin Mary, but in one of his passages he talks about how there's some kind of device where you light a fire, which is an offering on a little alter. Then that causes air to be pushed, which then pushes the fake blood to come out of the eyes of the statue, and this is a pagan statue. Dr. Richard Carrier: That definitely sounds like Heron, yeah. We have this in Plutarch too. Plutarch said pagan statues frequently wept and bled and spontaneously spoke, and he's very skeptical. He writes about this and says, this is just either natural phenomena or trickery and these things don't really happen. Gods don't really inhibit the statues. And this is a pagan writing about this. Nehemia Gordon: But he's a very skeptical pagan we established. Dr. Richard Carrier: This was a common thing, the pagans were making their gods weep and bleed as well. It predates Christianity these miracles. Nehemia Gordon: From my perspective, what had to have happened, is some of those pagan priests became Christian priests and brought that technology along with them. Dr. Richard Carrier: It could well be, yeah. Nehemia Gordon: I've read on some Catholic websites, where they are talking about Roode of Boxley, the Roode of Grace, which was caught in 1538, as being a trickery, and they're saying oh no, everybody knew that, that it wasn't a miracle. They call it something like religious theater, that the people knew better. I don't buy that. Because I've met people who in the twenty-first century have been tricked by this type of thing. I just don't buy it. I know plenty of people in the Jewish world, who are tricked, not by crying statues, but similar sorts of things. I'll just give you one example, the tomb of the Babasali, who is this Rabbi who died sometime in the twentieth century. Miracles that are related to his tomb. They'll take a cup of water, they'll put it on the tomb and that will cure cancer. All kinds of things. Nobody who believes in this, the people I've encountered, believe this is religious theater. They think these are genuine miracles that are taking place. And there is somebody that knows this is a lie. Some of these people may innocently believe it, other ones, this is just outright cynical trickery. Dr. Richard Carrier: The Popoff case, the famous one, the one where it's become now like the troupe, a joke, about the fraudulent faith healing act. He had a thing where he had a speaker in his ear, he had like a little ear bud. Nehemia Gordon: Oh, I saw that. Dr. Richard Carrier: His wife would feed him the information to make it seem like he was omniscient, like he could just miraculously know someone's ailments. And they would specifically pick people that were ideal for this kind of theater, that they were going to perform. But they all made it seem like God was talking to him and giving him this information, and it was all part of the act. Indeed, it wasn't perceived as theater. People thought this was a real miracle occurring, that God really was talking to him. And the fact he could spontaneously know their ailments proved that it was for real. And they would specifically pick ailments that can respond to psychosomatic healing or appear to, right? No one came up with a severed limb and regrew a limb, right? They would specifically not pick those people. They would pick people who had ailments that you can't really verify they had it, or that it's even been cured. If someone has chronic pain, the faith healing act could make the pain go away, psychologically, but it will come back later. So, they would pick these kinds of things. They would pick ailments that make people believe they had been healed, when really they hadn't been. So, they specifically did not pick the amputees and things like that for this trick. Nehemia Gordon: I'll reiterate, I do believe in miracles and this is my faith. I believe God can heal people of anything, but I understand how somebody who sees this like you, who doesn't believe in God, says this is all a big scam. And that's why it's important for me to talk about this, because if we whitewash this, then it leaves people thinking all of religion is just one big scam and according to Maimonides, all religions except for Judaism are one big scam. Dr. Richard Carrier: That's a good point though. It is important to be a good skeptic of these thing and be aware of how this trickery can occur. People can be misled, even innocently misled, into thinking something's a miracle. Because if you do believe there are miracles, it makes it more difficult for you to prove that these miracles exist and therefore you need better evidence and so forth, to establish that your miracles are the real miracles and these others are not, otherwise you can't know. Even if it's true, you can't know, and so if you want to bring people into the fold through miracle working and there is, as we have been discussing, there's problem with that strategy all together, but if you wanted to do that, you do need to take skepticism seriously and be a good debunker as well. Nehemia Gordon: The example you gave with Popoff, and I'm going to post a link to that video as well, I think it's from a James Randi document I saw… Dr. Richard Carrier: It is, yes. Absolutely. Nehemia Gordon: It's an amazing example, where literally there's a woman speaking in his ear and James Randi picked up the frequency and exposed this guy, so there's trickery going on. I want to end with one more example of miracles and these are the miracles of the Second Temple. My point here is, it's really easy for me to sit on my high horse and knock the Greek Orthodox and the ancient pagans, but if we're not willing to look at our own miracles and question them, then this is just hypocrisy. So I want to talk about the miracles of the Second Temple. This is from a passage in Yoma 39B of the Babylonian Talmud. "Our Rabbis taught: During the last forty years before the destruction of the Temple the lot [‘For the Lord'] did not come up in the right hand [of the High Priest on Yom Kippur]…" What that's describing is Leviticus 16. They would draw one lot for Azazel and one lot for Yehovah, with two goats. What they believed, this isn't in the Bible, but what they believed is, if the lot for Yehovah or the Lord came up in the right hand it was auspicious, it was a blessed thing. So, for the last forty years the lot didn't come up in the right hand and the implication is, before that it always did. He goes on "…nor did the crimson-colored strap become white…" That was supposedly a miracle that happened. See I'm already skeptical, I said "supposedly". It was a miracle that happened every year in the Second Temple. There was a crimson or a red color strap that would turn white, and that's a reference to a verse in Isaiah, "though your sins be as crimson, I will turn them white". They said this literally happened in the Temple, except for the last forty years God was displeased with Israel. And it says, "…nor did the westernmost light shine…" That was some other kind of miracle of the light spontaneously shinning, interestingly. Then they say, "…the doors of the Hekal [which is the middle sanctuary] would open by themselves..." So let's talk about these, these miracles of the Second Temple. Some of these could have been sleight of hand, I mean, come on. Dr. Richard Carrier: Also, this is in the Talmud, so these things might not even actually go back. These might be legends. They might not have even occurred, because we have references in Josephus, for example, of the spontaneous Temple door opening. Josephus says that happened one time, that this occurred. And we're not entirely sure it really did, but it was reported to have happened. Nehemia Gordon: And as you read on in the Talmud that actually does sound like a one-time occurrence, because Rabbi Yochanan Ben Zakai then comes and rebukes the doors for opening. It does sound like that was a one-time thing. Dr. Richard Carrier: Josephus mentions there was one bright light, that occurred one time, over the Temple alter, that was supposedly signifying something. Nehemia Gordon: So you're saying this may have been exaggerated over time. Dr. Richard Carrier: Yeah or Josephus is closer to these events, so if you look at the miracles he talks about in the Temple, these are more like omens than miracles. They were omens of the impending destruction of the Temple, which were only interpreted correctly in hindsight, of course, right? He mentions a variety of them, not all of the ones that were listed in Yoma. We don't see the Yoma descriptions quite in Josephus really. Nehemia Gordon: Which is itself suspicious. In other words, if Josephus was familiar with this, why wouldn't he mention it? I mean, a crimson colored strap turning white every year. But then again, maybe because he didn't see it. In other words, if this stopped around the year 30 or 28 AD, then he might have never seen it himself. Dr. Richard Carrier: Absolutely. He was born in 37, the Temple was destroyed in 70, and he was writing in 93 AD. He probably had sources, people claiming these things to him. It might have been impossible for him to verify these things actually occurred. Nehemia Gordon: I can imagine a scenario where he heard about this and said, yeah right, no red color strap turns white, I'm not even going to put that in my history. I'm not dismissing it so easily, because this isn't even David Copperfield stuff, this is like, a fourth grader could do these tricks, come on. Dr. Richard Carrier: Yeah and also normal things can occur. Like a mild earth quake can cause the doors to open. There are things like that or someone opened the doors and then someone didn't notice they were there and then they went and reported the doors opened by themselves and no one corrected them. So if you can't investigate, it's really hard to know what really happened. And Josephus would have been in that position, himself. He probably could not have really known what was happening. He's just reporting what was told to him. And the way Josephus writes, he usually writes from the double perspective, saying, this is the stuff that was said, there might be natural explanations or not. He doesn't say these things definitely happened. He reports them and lets you decide, as the reader, whether you believe them or not. Nehemia Gordon: I believe these things did happen. Especially, the door opening, which is very interesting. But that was a bad omen. And there is a Roman writer who mentions that as well. So, that may have happened. I kind of think all of these things probably happened and then I have to ask the question why did they stop in the last forty years before the Temple was destroyed. I know the Christians have a specific answer, because the Jews rejected Christ and therefore the miracle stopped. I got to wonder, Herod married the daughter of a priest, named Boethus of Alexandria, who came over from Alexandria and became the high priest in the Temple. I have to wonder if he didn't bring over some of that Alexandrian technology to the Temple. I mean, Heron of Alexandria is describing what went on. It's not a leap to think that a High Priest would come. And after that, you have these High Priests who were like, we are always going to have in the right hand "For the Lord". We know how to do that. Any Temple in Alexandria would do these tricks. They're nothing. Dr. Richard Carrier: Yeah and they could be political statements. If you are going to create a bad omen, that's a political statement. That's a way to sort of protest an existing government and claim it's not you, it's the gods. Nehemia Gordon: Or maybe they didn't know how to do it. We know the High Priest was constantly changing, it was for sale from the Roman Governor. Maybe in the year 30 AD there was a new high priest who just didn't know how to do the first few tricks here. The last one is a specific event with the doors. Dr. Richard Carrier: But also I find the forty years, a suspicious number. It's a theological number. It's like the forty years in the wilderness kind of thing. Even if these things happened, they might not have happened every year. They might not have happened for exactly forty years. But the story becomes that. It becomes for every year, for forty years. Nehemia Gordon: It's what we call a typological number in Biblical studies. Meaning, maybe it wasn't 40 years, maybe it was 27 or 48. Dr. Richard Carrier: And maybe it wasn't every single year. Nehemia Gordon: But the point is, in that last generation these miracles weren't being performed. And I got to wonder if that wasn't the change in the High Priesthood, who were like, we don't know how to do this. Dr. Richard Carrier: That's a valid hypothesis to explore, for sure. Nehemia Gordon: I want to go back to the Easter Miracle of the Fire. Maybe it's sleight of hand and trickery, maybe the Greek Orthodox Church is the one true religion, maybe it's demonic supernatural forces, and maybe it's God allowing them to perform this miracle based on Deuteronomy 13. I guess we don't know, but what we're really saying here is, you can't just automatically assume the Greek Orthodox Church is the one true religion. You've got to explore these other possibilities. Dr. Richard Carrier: For those interested in more on this, I have a talk I gave at Skepticon, you can find online, Miracles and the Historical Method. Nehemia Gordon: We'll post a link to that. Dr. Richard Carrier: I talk about Glycon. I show some of the icons and archaeology relating to Glycon and various other pagan miracles from the time and talk about what it would take to actually verify a miracle occurred. I don't think it's impossible. I think it can be done. It's just we haven't had any miracles of that caliber. Nehemia Gordon: Well, thank you very much. This has been an amazing conversation. We were here with Dr. Richard Carrier, you can find out more at RichardCarrier.info. Thank you. Dr. Richard Carrier: Thank you. Nehemia Gordon: I really enjoyed that conversation and learned a lot from it. Now, for some concluding thoughts. I want to make it very clear, I didn't do this episode to shake anyone's faith. On the contrary, it's my sincere hope this will strengthen people's relationship with the Creator of the Universe. Get it on a solid foundation. Dr. Carrier was very open about being an atheist, so it's natural he doesn't believe in miracles, but miracles are real. Yehovah created the universe and He can do whatever he wants in His world, but I also believe in false prophets, as is described in Deuteronomy 13. They have the power to perform genuine signs and miracles in order to lead us away from the word of Yehovah. On top of that, there can be no doubt, there are also fake miracles performed through trickery and sleight of hand. All of the above are certainly true. There may also be miracles performed by harnessing demonic forces or genuine supernatural magic. That's debatable from the Tanach's perspective, but it might be true as well. For me, the standard is Deuteronomy 13. If a miracle leads you away from the Torah and the one true God, Yehovah, then do not pay attention to it. It's really that simple. We see an example of this in 1 Kings 22. In the story of Michaihu. It describes 400 prophets who prophesized falsely before King Ahab and Jehoshaphat. They are not tricksters. They were experiencing a genuine spirit causing them to prophesy. We know from Michaihu this was a false spirit. In Hebrew, a ruach sheker, sent by Yehovah to deceive Ahab. Let's say that again. Yehovah sent this lying spirt, according to 1 Kings 22. It was sent by Yehovah himself. Ahab wanted a delusion, and Yehovah gave him the delusion he wanted. This is what Deuteronomy 13 is all about. If you believe Moses, then don't pray for a delusion and don't be swayed by signs and miracles. Not even genuine ones, that lead you away from Yehovah and his Torah. Just prior to Deuteronomy 13:1, we read in 12:32 not to add or take away from any of the commandments in the Torah. It's in this context that God then brings the issue of the false prophet. This means, if a prophet comes and tries to add or take away anything from the Torah, you must not listen to him, even if he performs scientifically verifiable supernatural miracles, miracles that would convince Dr. Carrier. Even then, don't listen to that false prophet, because God said, don't add, don't take away. And a prophet will come one day who performs these miracles, don't listen to him. Just don't do it. It's that simple. If he performs miracles, and tells you the pig is now kosher, or the commandments have been done away with, or I have new commandments for you, it's a test from Yehovah. In the words of Deuteronomy 13:3-4 "You must not heed the words of those prophets or those who divine by dreams; for Yehovah your God is testing you, to know whether you indeed love Yehovah your God with all your heart and soul. Yehovah your God you shall follow, Him alone you shall fear, His commandments you shall keep, his voice you shall obey, Him you shall serve, and to Him you shall hold fast." It's so clear. Don't be swayed by miracles, even if they're real. Just hold fast to Yehovah. That's how you prove that you love him. I'm going to end in prayer. Yehovah, Creator of the Universe, miracles are nothing for you. You created nature and so suspending its rules are within your power. But ever since Moses faced Pharaoh, the magicians have been using various means to reproduce your genuine miracles, to lead people away from you. Pharaoh wanted a delusion and you gave it to him. Father, I pray for your truth and to keep me far away from any test of my faith in you. Protect me from delusions and false prophets, from lying spirits and signs and miracles, that would lead me away from your Torah. That would add to your Torah, or take away from your Torah. I love you Yehovah and yearn for your truth. Please grant me the discernment to distinguish between genuine miracles and anything that might lead me away from your beloved Word. Amen. SUPPORT NEHEMIA'S RESEARCH AND TEACHINGS! Makor Hebrew Foundation is a 501c3 tax-deductible not for profit organization. Subscribe to "Nehemia's Wall" on your favorite podcasts app! iTunes | Android | Spotify | Google Play | Stitcher | TuneIn Share this Teaching on Social Media Related Posts: The Truth About Christmas and Tammuz with Dr. Carrier Hebrew Voices Episodes Support Team Studies Nehemia Gordon's Teachings on the Name of God SHOW NOTES Guest Bio: Richard Carrier has a Ph.D. in the history of philosophy from Columbia University, and is a published philosopher and historian, specializing in contemporary philosophy of natura

In this episode of Prophet Pearls, Nehemia Gordon and Keith Johnson discuss the Prophets portion of Tzav covering Jeremiah 7:21-8:3,  9:22-23. In this portion paralleling the sacrifices in Leviticus, Gordon traipses through millennia to offer explanations for the perplexing statement, … Continue reading → The post Prophet Pearls #25 – Tzav (Jeremiah 7:21-8:3; 9:22-23) appeared first on Nehemia's Wall.

In this week's episode of The Original Torah Pearls, Tzav (Leviticus 6:1-8:36), we discuss what exactly is the JEPD theory otherwise known as the Documentary Hypothesis? What is the role of the the Aaronic priest and is it fulfilled by … Continue reading → The post Torah Pearls #25 – Tzav (Leviticus 6:1-8:36) appeared first on Nehemia's Wall.

In Hebrew Gospel Pearls #14, Nehemia and Keith discuss the three realms of information in biblical thought, how Matthew 5 presents Yeshua as a sage teaching wisdom, and the Hebrew meaning behind the phrase “poor in spirit”. I look forward to reading your comments in the Comments Section below! Download Audio https://audio.nehemiaswall.com/HGP/Hebrew-Gospel-Pearls-14-NehemiasWall.com.mp3 Watch Hebrew Gospel Pearls PLUS #14! SUPPORT NEHEMIA'S RESEARCH AND TEACHINGS! Makor Hebrew Foundation is a 501c3 tax-deductible not for profit organization. Subscribe to "Nehemia's Wall" on your favorite podcasts app! iTunes | Android | Spotify | Google Play | Stitcher | TuneIn Share this Teaching on Social Media Related Posts: Hebrew Gospel Pearls PLUS #14 My Search for Hebrew New Testament Manuscripts Hebrew Gospel Pearls Torah and Prophet Pearls Hebrew Voices Episodes Support Team Studies Nehemia's Yehovah Research The post Hebrew Gospel Pearls #14 – How Matthew 5 Presents Yeshua as a Sage Teaching Wisdom appeared first on Nehemia's Wall.

In this episode of The Original Torah Pearls, Vayikra (Leviticus 1:1-5:26), we share our recommendations of English translations and how to use them responsibly. What is really going when we see Leviticus chapter 5 ending with verse 19 in the gentile translations, while in the Hebrew and Jewish translations it ends with verse 26. We review the five primary types of sacrifices, which correspond to the first five chapters of the book Leviticus. We discuss whether there is atonement and forgiveness without blood. What “to lean his hand” means.  Whether if you sin can you just bring a sacrifice and receive atonement. What fats we are and aren’t we allowed to eat. The difference between intentional and unintentional sin. If one becomes unclean, have they done something which makes them guilty? Are we really expected to ring the neck of the bird? And so much more. Looking forward to reading your comments! https://audio.nehemiaswall.com/Torah_Pearls/Torah-Pearls-24-Leviticus-01-Vayikra.mp3 Download Torah Pearls Vayikra Transcript Torah Pearls #24 – Vayikra (Leviticus 1:1-5:26)You are listening to The Original Torah Pearls with Nehemia Gordon, Keith Johnson, and Jono Vandor. Thank you for supporting Nehemia Gordon's Makor Hebrew Foundation. Learn more at NehemiasWall.com. Jono: G'day to Sandra in South Carolina, Marilyn in Alberta, Canada, Maria in Florida, Esther in Victoria, Australia, Janis in Indiana, and wherever you may be around the world, it is good to have your company. G'day also to Janet, who left a comment saying, "Thank you so much for these studies. They are confirming and solidifying so many things for me in the scriptures.” Kimberly writes, "Thank you, brothers, for these discussions. I'm so blessed by them in so many ways." And Chris, who also commented, asking, "What Hebrew bible do you guys prefer? Is there a particular version that I should be looking for? Also, is there a parallel Hebrew bible with English translation next to it?" There is a question. It's time for the Torah Pearls, obviously. Pearls from the Torah Portion with Keith Johnson and Nehemia Gordon. G'day, fellas. Nehemia: Hey. G'day, Jono. I'm also doing a shout-out to Marlin in Shillong, India. Thank you for sharing the Torah Pearls. Jono: Neat. Keith: Yes. And good day to Andrea in Minnesota. Thanks for listening. Nehemia: Wait, what? That’s his wife. Jono: You were caught by surprise, weren't you, Keith? Keith: Oh, my goodness. That's Nehemia, he just won't let me get away with anything. Jono: Good day, Mrs. Johnson. Nehemia: Before we get started, I actually had some complaints from some listeners, and this is… Jono: We've got a complaint? Nehemia: And this isn't a joke. In all seriousness. One of the comments I had from some of the listeners is that there's a lot of people on this program, and we won't name names -- [coughs] Keith [coughs] Keith. We won't name names, who interrupt others when they're talking and speak over them. No names are being named [coughs] Keith. But this is something we should be aware of and try to be more careful with not interrupting when other are speaking, okay? Keith: Yes. Jono: Do you know anything about that, Keith? Nehemia: And look, this is not part of the Israeli culture to interrupt others when they're speaking. So, I have no…they obviously couldn't be referring to me. So... Jono: Really? Keith: We'll make sure that we take…extra careful. Yeah, I want to be extra careful about that. Jono: Oh, sorry. Was I talking...say it again. Nehemia: …and comments from this particular person...this is very reminiscent to conference calls that we actually have with myself, Keith, and this other person…interruption going on. Anyway, let's just try to... Jono: Try not to do that. Keith: I'll try. Jono: No, listen. Actually... Keith, seriously. Nehemia: Don't talk over other people when they're talking. Go ahead. Jono: Keith. Keith: Yes. Jono: As far as Hebrew bibles are concerned... Now, listen. I asked you this very question. You recommended to me a bible by Zondervan, a reader's Hebrew bible. This is the one you use, right? Keith: No, no, no. Actually, that is an English translation. It's called a Keyword Study Bible. If someone was interested in a Hebrew bible with English translation, I do recommend the Tanak. It's T. T as in T, Torah, A, N as in N, like Nancy, A, and K. And what I like about that…my son actually has that. And what's nice about that is it's purely the Hebrew bible. It has an English translation side by side. But for a person who kind of knows a few things, a little bit, here and there, and they want to see a Hebrew word, they can. What I like about the Hebrew Keyword Study Bible by Zondervan is that they take probably about 35% of the words that are in the English bible, they link them to Hebrew words in the Tanak, where you can go in and see those. You can't look at that like a lexicon or anything like that, but it really is nice for people who are just at the very beginning, that want to say, "Okay, in my English bible there's a little number that says...okay, let me go into the back of my bible and see what that word is." And then, they can do further study. But the best, obviously, is to be able to have a Hebrew bible where you can kind of see what the actual English words are. One other suggestion for those that are reading a little bit of Hebrew...one of the things that I did get is called a Reader's Hebrew Bible. And what's nice about this particular bible…it's all Hebrew, but it does have some of the more uncommon words down at the bottom. So, if a person is able to read Hebrew and wants to do better and make it more part of their devotional, spiritual study life, it's a great companion. This is what I use now when I go in to speak. Because a lot of it I'm not able to just open it up and translate it, but maybe to be able to read the words and not translate it. This helps with some issues of translation. Ultimately, you need to have yourself a Nehemia Gordon. I'll be honest with you. This guy, when he's willing… Jono: Yes. Keith: You're able to have someone that you could talk to about it and sharpen one another. Jono: Amen. Amen. And Nehemia, you have made reference a couple of times now to Everret Fox and the Schocken Torah. Can you just fill us in on that? Nehemia: I was talking to myself for a moment…what are we talking about? Jono: The Schocken…you've made a couple of references to Everret Fox and that translation. Can you just fill everybody in with… Nehemia: That's one of a number of translations. All joking aside, the translation the you're required to use if you care about your salvation and your internal soul is the Nehemia Gordon personal theology version. Get it at Amazon.com., $49.95. Actually, I should do a translation like that and call it "The Nehemia Gordon Personal Theology Translation". No, there is no such translation. So, look. What I recommend to do is, if you don't know Hebrew, look at least two translations, more if you can, and compare them, and see what the differences are. That's a good point to start. Those are good points to then look up and try to study more what is the Hebrew behind these differences. It doesn't mean, when they agree, that there's no problem because a lot of times what happens is one translator will copy from another translator, and then tweak it. That's basically going back to Tyndale and, what is it, like the 14th Century? All the translations are pretty much copied off of him. So, the Schocken Bible is another translation. It's good. It has some good things. But like I said, no translation is perfect. Anybody who tells you that this is the translation which is the original actual words that were spoken thousands of years ago, they probably don't know that much Hebrew. They really don't know what they're talking about. What we have to do is really compare translations. That's my recommendation. But then there are some notoriously bad translations. Like the NIV, what Keith calls the "Nearly Inspired Version" - the "New International Version". It doesn't mean it's useless. There are some places where all the other translations miss it and the NIV happens to be the only one who, despite themselves, gets it. That happens, you know. But there are other places where it's just…I like the word egregious, which means it's not just a little bit off or they're paraphrasing. It's almost like sometimes they'll translate the exact opposite of what it says in the original, which is why whenever I'll quote one of those translations I look to see. "Okay, this is what it says in the original." And if it's at least reasonably close enough then I may quote it. Another translation which is almost comically egregious, taking liberties, is the Stone Edition, also known as The Artscroll Bible. There's one section there in Song of Songs where they actually don't translate what it says in the Hebrew. They give you their interpretation in the body of the translation. And the literal translation is on the bottom. They take all Song of Songs to be…Song of Solomon to be an allegory. They interpret the allegory to refer to. And it very well may be an allegory, but at least give the people the respect that they can figure it out for themselves. Or at least let them know what it literally says, and then you can tell them the interpretation. There's one section there, I kid you not, where they actually talk about the written Torah; the written law and the oral law, in the body of the translation, because that's what they interpret this metaphor or allegory in Songs of Songs to refer to. And look, there are other places where all the translations got it wrong except for the Stone Edition. I mean, there is no such thing as “Well, it’s a bad translation, so we shouldn't look at it.” I guess there probably is such a thing, but generally, somebody who's trying to translate well will get it right probably most of time. But then there will be time when they completely get it wrong. So, I don't know that there's one translation that you could…there isn't one translation that you can…there is no such thing. It doesn't exist, one translation you can trust. Jono: So, having obviously, as you've mentioned, two or three translations...one of them being at least the Hebrew and having some basic knowledge...at least some basic knowledge on reading Hebrew, some tools there, obviously really pays, as we're finding out in these Torah Pearls. I mean, Keith...Keith loves my new King James Version. Keith: Absolutely. Yeah. I just want to know if you can get the accent with it. Jono: You can get one with the accent. Now, today we are in… Nehemia: Oh, the Australian accent. Jono: …Vayikra, right? We're in Leviticus, Vayikra. Keith: Yeah. Jono: Verse 1:1-5:26. Now, I've got a problem already. Keith, it goes to 5:26. Now, as great as my bible is, and maybe it's different in the Nearly Inspired Version, my bible only goes up to 5:19. I don't have 26 verses in chapter five. Can you just tell me what you've got? Keith: Yeah, let's see here. Mine goes up to 5:19 also. I only have 19 verses in chapter five. Jono: I'm confused. I'm concerned. I looked at my Hebrew Bible and sure enough it goes up to 26. And so, maybe we can figure that out by the time we get to the end of it. But it is Leviticus 1:1 to 5:26. Nehemia: So, the reason for that is that the chapters were only invented in the 13th century, with the exception of the Psalms. The rest of the Tanach, the Old Testament, didn't have chapter divisions. They were introduced around the early 13th century by the Archbishop of Canterbury, Stephen Langton. And they were only implemented into Hebrew bibles and to Jewish bibles at a very late date. Because of that, the verse numbers are often different, and specifically in this case. So, what in the English bibles…I should really say gentile bibles. In gentile bibles, translations to the Tanach would be Leviticus 6:1. In the Jewish bibles, like in the Hebrew, of course, and also in the J.P.S, which is Jewish Publication Society, even the Stone Edition, that bad translation, it'll be Leviticus 5:20. So in yours, it only goes 5:19. In ours it goes...6:1 for you is actually 5:20 for us. And it ends in your English bibles in Leviticus 6:7, whereas in our bibles that's Leviticus 5:26. So, it's the same verses, they're just numbered differently. Jono: Excellent. Thank you. Keith: Can we go with the majority opinion here and go with the English bibles and make Nehemia adjust to us, or should we go with the Torah portions as they're... Jono: Well, I guess we got to keep going right through 6:7, which is in reality 5:26. So, now that we… Keith: Before you read, I do have an important question I would like to ask both of you. I would like to know...Nehemia, when you were in the synagogue and it was time to read these portions, were you ever in a synagogue where there would actually be commentary, or was it always simply reading it? Nehemia: No, they would just read it. Now afterwards, the rabbi in many synagogues would get up and give a sermon and that would be the interpretation. But that was actually from a different place. There's a certain place in the synagogue, an elevated sort of platform where someone would go up and, if they knew how, they would read it. If not, a professional reader would read it for them. That was done on this platform. The rabbi, who would then give the interpretation, after the whole thing was completed, after the Torah was put back into its box, into the ark, that would be from a different position, so that nobody would, God forbid, think that he's actually reading from scripture rather than giving his interpretation. They made a very important...and here, I got to give the rabbis credit. Because sometimes, they'll have these interpretations which are so wild and so ridiculous…but what they won't do is actually change the text of scripture. They'll tell you, "This is the literal meaning. But we don't go by the literal meaning. Here is the true meaning that God has revealed through the rabbis or transmitted through the tradition." So, they make that clear distinction between the interpretation and the actual words. They don't change the words; they never dare to do that. Again, they're very creative sometimes when it comes to the interpretation, and they'll even read words differently in the interpretation. But when it comes to actually reading in the synagogue, they don't change a single dot or a single tittle. Keith: Okay, so my question to Jono is…Jono, in your tradition, when they would open up they word of God, was there any difference between them opening up the word of God and when they were actually sharing? Is there a place where they read it or discuss it? Jono: Well, in my tradition, Keith, it was very blurred. You would be told what the words were on the page, and then you would also be given a figurative or allegorical meaning or application to what we just read, and it would take it to a totally different context. But we would hear the words. And then we would be told what it meant, and how it applies to us. Keith: The reason I was bringing this up is, we're about to go into Leviticus, and I was…I always learned a long time ago that this is a book that's sort of unnecessary. That this is only about the… Nehemia: Is that a joke? Keith: What? I'm telling you. This is a book that's completely unnecessary. It's regarding the sacrifices, etc. If you were to do a survey, and you were to go to a church and say, "How many times would someone speak from the book of Leviticus?" I bet you couldn't find five percent of present-day Christian pastors who would open up the Book of Leviticus and actually speak from it. And the reason I brought this up, and I've been thinking a lot about this…just this idea, Nehemia, that in the tradition that you come from, that they would see the word of God as the word of God, and actually treat it differently, and have this level of respect and reverence for it. But it is the word of God. And then, their response to it would still be a response. And Jono, your experience, in your background, they might say, "Okay, this is the word of God. And now, we're going to give you the allegorical or the meaning of it. And here is what you need to know." And I just thought about how we're reading this book, this is the word of God. I mean, it is the same as everything else that we've done. But how I approach it has been a little bit different, because I have to admit for myself, in the Book of Leviticus, there's so much of it that disconnects from my present life. Meaning, when we're dealing with sacrifices and what's happening in the Temple, I don't even get a chance to go and look at the Temple as it stood. Rather, I have to hear about…here's what they say it looked like, as we've been talking about. Here's what we think is how it was. And then, I don't even have a place to actually see it. So, it's really kind of a…I'm really looking forward to this section and to see how we approach it. That's what I wanted to ask, how you guys have seen the word of God… Jono: No, certainly. Because Keith, I remember...what we would often do is, we would start…in my tradition, you begin in the New Testament and make sure everyone understands what that all means, and now, let's go cherry-picking. And, only in the cherry-picking you would go back to Leviticus and just pull out a couple of things. Just to pull what you've already established. Keith: Right. Jono: So, I am very…I've got a lot of questions here. Nehemia: So, I'd like to actually turn the tables, and give some credit to your tradition, Keith, and your tradition, Jono. I don't know if this is everywhere in the Christian world, but one of the things I have encountered is people from your traditions who will sit down, by themselves or with a group, and just read a chapter of the bible. They won't even discuss it, they'll just read it. And maybe they'll discuss it afterwards. In my tradition, I was actually taught never to do that. I was taught that if I…now, they did that in the synagogue, but I was taught to never sit down by myself and just read a chapter of the bible and just hear what it has to say, without a running commentary of the rabbis. I was taught that if I did that, it would lead to blasphemy, and I like to say…and heresy. I like to say that, at least when it comes to heresy, that I'm a living proof that it's true. So, there I have to give credit to your tradition, because what we did do in the synagogue is, we would read from the Torah and the prophets in Hebrew. But to actually read it in your own language…which, today I can read Hebrew, but growing up I had to read it in English, and I was told that that was forbidden; that I was not allowed to read it by myself in English because it would lead to heresy. And here I am… Keith: Well, if we're going to do this... Nehemia: …and you can see. Keith: If we're going to do this, I want to bring this up. Because this is…I kind of wanted to tiptoe around the tulips on this. But one of the things that I wonder is, I have friends who come from a Catholic tradition. And one of the things they will say is, it's never a legitimate Catholic church unless they're actually doing the mass in Latin. And if they're doing it in Latin, and even though you don't understand what the Latin is, or whatever, it's authentic. Now, what happens around it? Okay, this is what happened. But we've heard it. And so, I'm just wondering. And then also, in my particular tradition, the Protestant movement, the idea was we want to get back to the word of God, to giving people a chance to read the bible for themselves. And there was a huge response, as we know historically, to this idea of giving the bible to people in their language so that they could actually read it. Now, we're kind of on the other end of that. Now we're saying, "Okay. Yeah. And that's great. Look, this is a bad translation. This is a bad translation. Oh. Well, here is the Hebrew." You know? It's like this balance we have to go through to try to help people understand the significance of the word of God being given in their language, and then knowing that man sometimes gets involved in that. That we still want to have the original, and if there's a way to get the balance. But I just think it's interesting that in your tradition, Nehemia, they would say, "Don't read it without commentary." In our tradition, they would say, "Read it, but as the spirit leads,” in some of our traditions, as the spirit leads…you can come up with any translation the spirit leads you to. But I think what we're trying to do is, we're trying to say, "Here, we have these different backgrounds. What does it actually say in the language? And then, what could it mean?" So, that's why I'm interested about Leviticus. How are we going to be able to help people understand what it meant, and what it could mean for us today? This isn't a book we would normally have a good-old-fashion...Methodist messages from. I guess that's my point. Jono: Absolutely. So… Keith: But it is the word of God. Jono: It is the word of God, and it begins like this. Now, "Yehovah called to Moses and spoke to him from the Tabernacle of Meeting, saying, 'Speak to the children of Israel and say to them, When anyone of you brings an offering to Yehovah, you shall bring your offering of the livestock of the herd and of the flock.' And this offering is a burnt sacrifice." So, this is the first category that we have, is the burnt sacrifice of the herd. "Let him offer a male without blemish; He shall offer it of his own free will at the door of the Tabernacle of Meeting before Yehovah." And he shall…now, I should warn everybody; if you're an animal activist, this whole book really doesn't…particularly the opening of this, it may be upsetting to you. But this is just a part of life. And it said, "He shall put his hand on the head of the burnt offering, and it shall be accepted on his behalf to make atonement for him. He shall kill the bull before Yehovah. And the priests, Aaron's sons, shall bring the blood and sprinkle the blood all around on the altar that is by the door of the Tabernacle of the Meeting, and he shall skin the burnt offering and cut it into pieces. The sons of Aaron, the priests, shall put fire on the altar and lay wood in order on the fire. And the priests, Aaron's sons, shall lay the parts, the head and the fat, in order, on the wood that is on the fire of the altar. That he shall wash its entrails and its legs with water. And the priests shall burn all on the altar as a burnt sacrifice, an offering made by fire, a sweet aroma to Yehovah." Nehemia, there's a lot of questions there. For one, the last thing that I read, and we read this a lot, is "...an offering made by fire, a sweet aroma to Yehovah." Are we to understand…I mean, I don't know why it sounds funny to me to ask this question, but are we to understand that he's going, "Oh, yeah. Barbecue." Is that…so, I mean, what? Nehemia: Look, there are a lot of different things here. Let me deal with the sweet or, "reach nichoach", which is a smell or sweet aroma. This goes to a bigger question, which is…Jewish philosophers love to debate about this back and forth. And they ask questions; they say, "Well, if God is eternal and infinite, then that means he's the same today as tomorrow and yesterday." And then they say, "Well, if God would actually experience emotion, then emotion would change him." Now, think about that with yourself. Have you ever experienced something that made you really, really angry? More angry than you've ever been, and then, really from that day forward, you were never the same? At least, you'd had an experience you've never had before. So, most Jewish philosophers, I would say, believe, and I don't know that Christian philosophers are much different. I don't really know much about Christian philosophy. But Jewish philosophers tend to say that God doesn't really experience emotion, doesn't have a physical body. Every time a scripture talks about a physical body or an experience of emotion..."And God got very angry," and "God was pleased," those sort of things…that's just using language that allows us to try and connect with something that is infinite and beyond our comprehension. We shouldn't understand that God literally got angry, or happy, or...now, I'm not saying that that's my view, and it's something I'm still trying to work out in fear and trembling and prayer and study. But in any event, there are a couple of possibilities. Maybe God literally smells it with his nose. I find that hard to believe that God actually has a physical nose that he literally smells it with. I do think, to some extent, in this case, that it's speaking in human language, trying to explain to us in a way that we can connect with, something which is beyond our comprehension. That is God, who is infinite. You don't have to agree with that. It's something I struggle with myself. And maybe I'll let Keith talk about that before we go to the big issue, which to me is, what is this all about? These whole five chapters that we're reading. That to me is the big question. This specific thing, I'm not so concerned about that. I mean, that's something we could talk about. But there's so much to talk about in this Torah portion, that I really want to…but let's let Keith talk…and actually, let me just continue. Keith: The only thing I was going to say was, I'm trying to figure out who actually is bringing the offering. So, it says "you are to bring it to the priests." So, here's the thing that kind of threw me off a little bit. It was, okay, so I'm bringing the offering to the priest. I've got my bull. Jono: My old bull, yeah. Keith: I'm supposed to kill it myself? Jono: I guess. You put your hands on the head of the offering... Keith: Wait, wait. And then, I'm supposed to skin it myself? Jono: Well, yeah. I guess. Keith: I'm not guessing. I want to know if this is... Jono: I don't know. I mean, it says... Keith: Because then it says... Nehemia: These are things that…sorry, go ahead. Keith: Then, it says, "He is to skin the burnt offering and cut it into pieces." Jono: Yeah. Keith: "The sons of Aaron the priest start to put fire on the altar." So, what I'm trying to get just a clear understanding before we get in to the nitty-gritty here. So, I am an Israelite… Jono: Who slaughters and who skins, right? Keith: So, I'm an Israelite. I'm bringing an offering. So, I've found my bull. I kill it. They take the blood and they sprinkle it. Then, I'm to skin it? Is that your understanding, Nehemia? Nehemia: No, actually not. But we'd have to look at other passages in the Tanach to see that. But basically, these are things that were done by the Kohanim, the priests. That is, the direct male descendants, father to son, in the male line of Aaron. And they had the Levi'im, the Levites, who were direct male descendants, father and son on the male line from Levi, who is an ancestor of Aaron. So, they would assist with some of the actions. For example, they wouldn't sprinkle blood on the altar, but they might do the slaughtering in their assistive role. But that's actually…I think, actually, that's the nitty-gritty. What I want to offer now, very briefly, is an overview. We have five chapters, and each chapter talks about something fundamentally different. Actually, five different types of sacrifices. So, somebody says to you, "How many types of sacrifices are there?" You could say five. And the truth is, there are more. For example, there's the Passover sacrifice, which is a type to its own. But there are five primary types of standard sacrifices. The first one…I'm going to use the Hebrew names and translate each of them. These correspond numerically to the five chapters in Leviticus that we're reading. And you're admittedly in chapter six. But in the Hebrew, it's five chapters. Chapter one is the Ola. Ola literally means, ascends. But the reason it's called that is that it's a whole-burnt offering, and the entire thing ascends, up into heaven in the form of smoke and fire. The second one…and that's an animal sacrifice, Ola. The second one is the Mincha, which is a grain offering. The third one is Zevach Shlamim, which is a peace offering. The fourth one is the Chatat, the sin offering. And the fifth one is the Asham, which is the guilt offering. And those, again, correspond. So, for example, the second one, Mincha, which is the grain offering, is Leviticus, chapter two. The third one, the Zevach Shlamim, the peace offering, is in Leviticus, chapter three. The fourth one, Chatat, the sin offering, is in Leviticus, chapter four. The fifth one, Asham, the guilt offering, is Leviticus chapter five. Now, there are sub-categories that we'll read about in later chapters. For example, there's the peace offering, which is a subtype of the peace offering that we'll read about in later chapters of Leviticus. But for now, what we've seen is five chapters, and each one has a type of sacrifice. Ola, Mincha, Zevach Shlamim, Chatat, Asham. Whole-burnt offering, grain offering, peace offering, sin offering, guilt offering. As an aside point to grain offering, many English translations, ironically, translate that as the meat offering. And that's just old English. In old English, meat meant grain. But correctly, it's not a meat offering, it's actually a grain offering. It's usually fine flour. Jono: Sure. So, the first one, Nehemia; the burnt offering. You just mentioned a little bit further on this guilt offering, or trespass offering, as it says in mine. And there's a sin offering as well. How do these…why are these different? Because it says here in verse four that, "He shall accept it on his behalf to make atonement for him." And I have to assume that if he's making atonement, it's some sort of sin offering. Right? I mean... Nehemia: Right. So, that's a bad assumption. That really goes to the question of why on earth would someone ever bring an Ola, a whole-burnt offering? These sacrifices are completely burned. And that really goes toward what the Chatat Ve-Asham are for. Should we get into that, or should we...? Keith: This is fascinating to me. Because I think, for me…and look, you guys have to understand. If we opened up the Book of Leviticus, it was only for one reason. It was only for one reason, and that's to parallel the New Testament with Tanach. Or the sacrifice, the ultimate sacrifice and, you know, this is all touchy stuff. But the point is that would be the only reason. And so, the idea would be, and there's no sacrifice without blood. And then here, you're telling me the second sacrifice is the grain offering? Where's the blood? Nehemia: Whoa, whoa. There's no sacrifice without blood? So, can we jump ahead? Jono: Hey, hey, hey. Did we just jump ahead? We jumped ahead huge. Now, this is probably the most controversial thing that we're possibly going to talk about in this whole section. Keith: Maybe we shouldn't talk about this. Jono: No, no. We have to talk about it. Because now I want to… Nehemia: I asked if we... Jono: I'm going to read it to you. Nehemia: You interrupted… Jono: Chapter five, verse ele - Nehemia: Before you read it, can we jump ahead to Leviticus chapter five? Okay, so in mine, it's verse 13. But that's probably because there are different chapter numbers. Keith: Okay, go ahead. Jono: In the English translations, this is Leviticus 5:11. I mean, we can do it now. It's just amiss…on to 13, it says, "But if he's not able to bring two turtledoves or two young pigeons, then he who sinned shall bring for his offering one tenth of an ephah of fine flour as a sin offering. He shall put no oil on it, nor shall he put frankincense on it, for it is a sin offering. Then, he shall bring it to the priest, and the priest shall take his handful of it as a memorial portion and burn it on the altar according to the offerings made by fire to Yehovah, it is a sin offering." This is verse 13 in mine. "The priest shall make atonement for him." Now, let me just... Nehemia: Somebody say atonement. Jono: Atonement. We have fine flour. "It is a sin offering. The priest shall make atonement for him, for his sin that he has committed in any of these matters, and it shall be forgiven him. The rest shall be the priest's, as a grain offering." Now, this is undoubtedly one of the most controversial things that we have to talk about because... Keith: I'm going to leave the program. I'm going to leave… Jono: Keith. You can't go anywhere…hey, you can't bring this up and then walk away. Keith: I can't be on this program right now. Are you kidding me? I mean... Jono: This is it, because we've been told over and over again, you and I, in our tradition, what we've been told consistently…consistently, Keith at least with me, it's been hammered so many times, there is no atonement for sin without the shedding of blood. Nehemia: Wow. Is there a New Testament verse to confirm that? Jono: Keith? Keith. I mean, he's pro… Nehemia: He's finally scared away the Methodist. Yes, this will be an exclusive Nehemia Gordon only, with Jono Vandor. I finally got my own show. Jono: He's passed out on the floor. We'll wait for... Keith: Okay, guys. I'm back. And this is why I didn't want to go into the book of Leviticus. I mean, now you guys have me…and in all seriousness, the thing that's so difficult about this, and having read through Leviticus…and again, I wanted to say this to everyone. I'd like to say this to all of our listeners and to you, Nehemia, and to Jono. I have such a passion, and compassion, for people that are in the church that I really want them to have a level of understanding. And in this situation, this is striking at the nerve for those who come from that tradition. So now that we've gone to chapter five, are we going to go back and clean it up, or... Jono: Wait. We can't go back… Nehemia: You're not going to give…no, you got to give me the verse from the New Testament. What's the New Testament verse? Jono: Is there a… Nehemia: I'll bring it. I'm reading from the King James Version, the Book of Hebrews, 9:22. To the best of my knowledge, this is the source of the statement that you had just said. That you need blood, you can't have atonement without blood. Here's what it actually says in Hebrews 9:22. This is the Karaite, reading from the Book of Hebrews. It says, "And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission." Jono: There's is no remission. Nehemia: Now, it seems to me the key word there is almost. Right? Which in Greek is "schedon". It doesn't say, "All things of the Torah are purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission." It says that's almost...and that's actually kind of true. We'll qualify that. It's almost true. So, he is recognizing…whoever wrote the Book of Hebrews is recognizing that in Leviticus, we've this little verse, Leviticus 5:13, where there is atonement and forgiveness without a single drop of blood. And so, that's consistent with the New Testament. Where I think people get in trouble is where they start to get theological, and they ignore what it actually says in the New Testament. Jono: You see, but in combination with that, Nehemia, after you read that in Hebrews 9:22, you are then directed to Leviticus 17:11 which says, "For the life of the flesh is in the blood; and I had given it to you upon the altar to make atonement for your soul." There it is. There it is. That's what the blood is for. The blood is... Nehemia: All of that is true. But… Jono: And so, it goes on to say, “But it's the blood that makes atonement for your soul.” Nehemia: Okay. That's not quite what it says in Hebrew. But we'll get to that when we talk about Leviticus 17. That's not fundamental for this issue. I think more importantly is, under what… now, we got to go back to Leviticus chapter one. Because that's really the question. And the question is in Leviticus chapter one…and, really, we read 5:11 out of context. But let's go back to Leviticus one. In Leviticus chapter one, who... Keith: Thank you, Nehemia. Nehemia: ...and why would ever bring an Ola, a whole-burnt offering? And I'll give you what the Jewish answer is to that. And you could say, this is wrong, and it's tradition. But the Jewish understanding is that the whole-burnt…and this doesn't change for Karaites or Rabbanites, because you can actually prove this from scripture. The whole-burnt offering in Leviticus, chapter one, is actually a voluntary offering. It's what's called a "nedava", which is free-will offering. Or it's one of the types of free-will offering. Now, why then in verse four does it have to do with atonement? I think to understand that, first we have to read verse four and understand the words of it. Can you read verse four of Leviticus chapter one in your translation, Keith Johnson? Keith: Yes, I can. "He is to lay his hand on the head of the burnt offering; and it will be accepted on his behalf to make atonement for him." Nehemia: Now, what does yours have, Jono? Yours had something different, didn't it? Jono: It's kind of similar. "Then he shall put his hand on the head of the burnt offering; and it shall be accepted on his behalf to make an atonement for him. Nehemia: So, what it literally says in Hebrew is "Ve-Samach Yado". And he shall lean his hand on the head of the whole-burnt offering. And it should be acceptable to him, or accepted for him, to make atonement for him. Now, what does it mean, "To lean his hand"? That's a strange expression. It appears repeatedly throughout this section. And we get the answer in Leviticus 16:1 where it explains what a person does when they lean their hands. I'm going to ask you'd read that, Jono. Jono: 16:21. This is what it says. It says, "...Aaron shall lay both his hands on the head of the live goat, confess over him all the iniquities of the children of Israel, and all their transgressions concerning all their sins, putting them on the head of the goat, and shall send it away into the wilderness by the hand of sinful man." Nehemia: For the purpose of leaning the hand, it isn't just some kind of symbolic thing that has no meaning whatsoever. It's actually a Hebrew idiom that, in the context of a sacrifice, had to do with what you do when you're leaning your hand, which is explained in detail in Leviticus 16, which is to actually confess your sins. You're not confessing your sins to a priest or to a rabbi. You're confessing your sins before the Creator of the universe. And through that, transferring, in a sense, the symbolic sense, the sin, from you onto the animal that you're sacrificing. And then, what you offer…now, here's the thing. If this is a free-will offering, why would you…why are you bringing it to get atonement? What does it have to do with atonement? I think to answer that, and I know Keith is not going to like this, but I think, really to answer that, we need to jump ahead to Leviticus chapter four. Can we do that? Jono: We can do that? Keith: Of course. We can do it. Nehemia: So, if we read in Leviticus chapter four, and in my Hebrew, it is verse 27. Jono: Keith, what do you have? Keith: Verse 27. "If a member of the community sins unintentionally..." Is that the one? Jono: Hmm-mm. Keith: "...and does what is forbidden in any of Yehovah's commands, he is guilty. When he is made aware of the sin he committed, he must bring as his offering for the sin he committed a female goat without defect. He is to lay his hand..." Nehemia: Then it goes on and it describes what we call the "Chatat" sin offering. Leviticus, chapter four, describes this is for the priests; for the high priests. The community in here, the individual in verse 27. Why is this important? Because this commandment is repeated in the Book of Numbers. And there we have a very key detail. It explains why the Jewish interpretation, that's to say, Leviticus 1 is a free-will offering, and you're not required to bring it. Leviticus chapter 15, verses 27-31. Let me just skim. I'm not going to read the whole thing, I'll read the key parts. It says, "And if a soul..." literally, if a soul, if one soul will sin, "Bi-shgaga", which is a term we'll talk more about, basically means unintentionally, "...he shall bring a goat female, one-year old, as a sin offering...". So, it's the same sacrifice, except for here it tells us it's a yearling and in Leviticus 4, it didn't tell us that. She-goat. "...and the priest shall make atonement for the soul that has sinned unintentionally..." et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. “And it shall be for atonement for him." It will be forgiven for him. And then, it goes on to talk about, verse 29, how there's one law for you, for those who act unintentionally, that is for the native-born and for the sojourner. And then verse 30 is very important. I'm going to let you read verse 30, Jono, from your translation. Jono: Numbers 15:30 says... Nehemia: Now, it's important because up until now, 27-29 of Numbers 15 was identical, essentially and it's the same thing being described in Leviticus chapter 4; somebody who unintentionally sins. And we could talk more about what unintentionally means. But he didn't do it on purpose. Jono: But someone… Nehemia: He brings a she-goat… Jono: Yeah, he brings the she-goat. So, “The person who does anything presumptuously, whether he is a native or a stranger, that one brings reproach on Yehovah, and shall be cut off from among his people, because he has despised the word of Yehovah. He has broken his commandments. That person shall be completely cut off. His guilt shall be upon him." Nehemia: So, what that means is, if you sin accidentally, you've got a whole bunch of sacrifices to take care of it. You sin on purpose, presumptuously, intentionally, there's no sacrifice that can help you. The sacrifice is not going to give you atonement. It's useless. If you look in the Prophets, this is something they repeatedly talk about. And I'm going to…can I read a few verses about this? Jono: Please. Nehemia: 1 Samuel 15:22. This is after the famous story where Saul brings the sacrifice that he was not allowed to bring. He should have waited for Samuel to bring it. So, Samuel said, "Has Yehovah a great delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices, as in obeying the voice of Yehovah? Behold, to obey is better than sacrifice, and to heed than the fat of rams." So, Saul thought, "Woah, what God really wants here is a sacrifice. We have all these rules. Who really cares about the rules? I'm just going to bring the sacrifice." And Samuel said to him, "No. What God wants is obedience, not your sacrifice." Not your sacrifice. Isaiah 1:11, "To what purpose is the multitude of your sacrifices to me? says Yehovah. I have had enough of burnt offerings of rams and the fat of fed cattle; I do not delight in the blood of bulls, or the lambs, or goats." So, what's he talking about? I thought he does. I thought he wants the blood. It's the sweet smell. That's only for the unintentional sins. For the intentional sin, it's useless. Hosea 6:6, "For I desire mercy and not sacrifice, and the knowledge of God more than burnt offerings." One of the most famous passages; Amos, chapter five, starting in…actually, a better one. There's more of a famous one, Micah 6:6. In English, the verse might be a few verses off. "With what shall I come before Yehovah, and bow myself before the high God? Shall I come before him with burnt offerings, with calves a year old?" And that's not calves on your legs. It's young bulls. "Will Yehovah be pleased with thousands of rams...?” This is Micah 6:7. "Will Yehovah be pleased with thousands of rams, ten thousand rivers of oil?" And that's because they offered oil as part of the sacrifice. "Shall I give my firstborn for my transgression, the fruit of my body for the sin of my soul? He has shown you, O man, what is good, and what Yehovah requires of you. To do justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God." And it goes on and on. I'll just read a couple more. Amos 5:22, "Though you offer me burnt offerings and your grain offerings, I will not accept them. Nor will I regard fat and peace offerings." How can he say this? Isn't he required to accept the blood? The blood brings atonement automatically, right? Well, no, it doesn't. Amos 5:23, "Take away from me the noise of your songs, for I will not hear the melody of your stringed instruments. But let justice run down like water, and righteousness like a mighty stream." Why does he say that? Because there's all these rivers of oil pouring out of the Temple. And he says, "I don't want the rivers of oil. I want justice to run down like water, and righteousness like a mighty stream." And then he says in verse 25 of Amos 5, a very important verse, "Did you offer me sacrifices and offering in the wilderness forty years, O house of Israel?" And the point is, this isn't what I commanded, that when you came out of Egypt, I didn't tell you, "If you sin, bring a sin offering." It doesn't say that in Leviticus. In Leviticus, it says, if a person brings an offering, that can help them with atonement after he confesses his sins. And that's part of the process of repentance. But if you sin presumptuously and haven't repented, all the blood in the world can't cover your sins. That's what it says there in the Book of Numbers, chapter 15, that we read there. And this is what the prophets are talking about. I'll read a couple more. Cut Keith off. I love doing it. Psalm 40:6, "Sacrifice and offering you did not desire, but you have given me an open ear. Burnt offerings and sin offerings you have not required. I delight to do your will, O my God. Your Torah is within my heart." That's what God wants. The obedience. The Torah in the heart. Not the rivers of blood and the thousands of burnt offerings. Jono: Keith. Nehemia: Another great passage which I won't read…or you can read it, if you want. Jeremiah 7:21-28, which basically says the same thing. Keith: So, oh Israelite…Nehemia Gordon, my Jewish brother... Nehemia: Are you one of the lost tribes, Keith? Keith: No, no, no. Let's go back to the Israelites, and let's help our people that are listening. Okay? We’re all living in the land back then. And you intentionally did something to me. You sinned against me, Nehemia. So, you're saying that if you intentionally sinned against me, you couldn't just run to the priest and bring a goat and lay your hands upon a goat? Nehemia: Well, that's kind of obvious. That first, I have to make amends with you. But let's talk about if I intentionally sin against God. Let's talk about how there was this…and I'm just going to bring a really simple example here. There was this big pork chop on the plate. And I said, "I know this is a sin." It says in Deuteronomy 14, "It's an abomination to Yehovah." But it looks really yummy, I'm going to eat it anyway. And just…I don't care. Later, I'll bring a sacrifice. Whatever. I'm just going to eat the pork chop. That sacrifice is useless to you. All the blood in the world can't cover that sin, can't atone for that sin of yours. Now, what can you do, is the question? And that, the prophets tell us repeatedly. We read Hosea. The book of Hosea, chapter 14, one of my favorite passages, verses… Jono: "O Israel, return to Yehovah, your God; for you have stumbled because of your inequity. Take words with you and return to Yehovah and say to him, 'Take away all inequity, receive us graciously, for we will offer the sacrifices of our lips.' " But of course, that's not what it says. Nehemia: We will pay for the bulls with our lips. Jono: Amen. Nehemia: Okay? Jono: There it is. Nehemia: Amen. Alright. And then he goes on; in verse five it says, "I will heal their backsliding, I will love them as a free-will offering...". So, God doesn't have to accept the sacrifice. That's the point in Leviticus 1:4, where it talks about laying the hands, which is sort of an act of confession. That's a part of the repentance that he's talking about here. "Take with you words and return to Yehovah...". It's a free-will offering. You're not required to bring that sacrifice, because the sacrifice isn't automatically going to cleanse you of the sin. It has to be part of a process of repentance. This is something we also see in Psalm 51, which I don't think we've read before. So, let me read that from the Hebrew. So actually, Palm 51, interestingly, is two separate psalms. The second psalm…I mean, written in two separate, completely different times. The first one is the Psalm of David that took place at a specific time in David's life. Then there's a completely separate psalm which begins in verse 17 of the Hebrew and goes through the end of the psalm, which is verse 21. And it says, "Lord," Adonai, "Lord, open my lips, and let my mouth speak your praise, for you do not desire sacrifice and payment, burnt offering you do not want. The sacrifice of God is a broken spirit, a broken and..." - literally, crushed heart - or "...contrite heart. God, do not despise." Meaning, "Look, you might not even accept my broken and contrite heart. So, I'm begging you God. Open my lips and let me pray to you and ask you not to despise this thing that I'm offering you." Then in verse 20, it says, "Heitiva birtsonch et Zion", which means, sort of like, rebuild with your desire, Zion. Build the walls of Jerusalem. Then he shall accept righteous sacrifice, whole-burnt offering. Then, "Bulls shall go up upon your altar." So, it's not just any sacrifice, where I say, "I sinned. I killed that person. Now, I'm going to bring the burnt offering of the bull, which is the top of the line. Right? The bull is the top of the line, because after that it goes down to the goat and the sheep. Jono: And the… Nehemia: Can't afford that. And we got the turtledoves and the pigeons. Jono: And you've got flour. Nehemia: But the bull is the top of the line. So, I murdered that guy, or I ate the pork chop. And now, I'm going to…I don't need to worry. I'm just going to bring this bowl, and everything will be fine. It doesn't work that way. It's only the righteous sacrifice that's accepted. And that's part of this process of the broken and contrite heart of the repentance. Then you can bring, as a free-will offering, if you want, a sacrifice that can be part of that process of repentance. If you can't bring the sacrifice, Hoshea talks about instead, your free-will offering will be the words of your lips to pay for that bull. Jono: Amen. Keith. Keith: Well, this is such great information. It's what the book says. And I have to thank Nehemia for what he's just done in making the connection between the prophets, and Leviticus, and the offering, and the unintentional sin offering. I mean, the bottom line is, the way that I always understood it, and I'm the one that's representing my tradition. So, if I went out Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, and Saturday, and just acted like hell, I could touch heaven on Sunday because of the sacrifice that was made on my behalf. And I could use these verses in Leviticus regarding this sacrifice and everything would be okay. And then I look at Nehemia and say, "Nehemia, so what is your hope? I mean, you acted like…you did this on Monday, or Tuesday, or Wednesday, or Thursday, or Friday. What do you do when you go to your synagogue? What are they going to tell you about what's going to take care of it for you, so you can go back out and do the same thing again?" So, here we're finding in Leviticus that this issue of unintentional sin versus intentional sin, that, for unintentional sin, here's the sacrificial system, if I can use that word carefully. But for the intentional sin, the only thing I can do is repent. Nehemia: And after the repentance, then you can bring free-will offering. But that doesn't give you the atonement in and of itself. Keith: Now, here's what I love about what we're talking about there, Jono. It's that it's almost…it's making me more comfortable now. Because when I go back into the New Testament, I hear this man who's saying, "Repent. Repent." Jono: Sure. Nehemia: Wait. Why does he need to repent? Don't you just need to confess something and then you can continue to sin? Jono: That's what I was told in numerous occasions. But what you are saying is that, if it comes to our attention, or really, we know, because it's intentional sin. It's presumptuous sin. It's rebellious sin. We have done it on purpose. But now, looking back, a lot of people listen to what we’re saying now, and I know this because so many people have asked this question. They listen to this and they go, "Look, oh, you're reminding me. And I know. I know that I did that wrong. And I'm really sorry about that now. But I intended to it, and I did it. What does that mean for me? Because now I'm repentant. But, what? Is there no guarantee? I mean, really, we're subject to the mercy of Yehovah." And Nehemia, would this be an appropriate time for…if I can ask you about Manasseh? Was it Hezekiah's king? The son, Manasseh, is a king of Israel, who, if I remember correctly, went down in history as one of the most evil kings of all time. Nehemia: That's because he filled Jerusalem with blood. That wasn't blood for sacrifices. It was the blood of innocent victims. Human beings. Jono: What was his end? He was captured, wasn't he? Nehemia: Let's pull up the passage. Why am I talking about Manasseh? Keith: Now, I thought for sure Jono was going to stop at that time and say this… Nehemia: Wait… Keith: Nehemia. No, no, no. Jono, I thought for sure you were going to say, "Nehemia, this is a great time for us to pray." Because I tell you something... Jono: Actually, I tell you what. Before we look at this, maybe we should do that. Keith: Yeah. Because this is such an important issue regarding the sacrificial system. And I want say, to people that maybe are a little bit new, their knees are shaking or they're a little bit nervous. What's amazing about this portion that we're talking about is that there's this beautiful picture of this relationship that we have with Him, and regarding holiness and connection, and relationship with Him, and this idea of sacrifice. But we want to make sure we understand what the sacrifices were for. Unlike that sort of casual shallow approach that I've grown up in, which is, "Oh, it's the sacrifice." And all that it is that point towards something else. And its meaning here that wouldn't really have much meaning. So Nehemia, you've done such a great job bringing us through this. Can you ask that our eyes would be open? Nehemia: Yehovah. Avinu she-bashamaim. Oh, Yehovah, Our father in heaven. Ta'al eininu ve-nabit nifla'ot mi-torateicha. Uncover our eyes that we may see the wonderful hidden things of your Torah. Keith: Amen Jono: Amen. Amen. So, we're looking briefly…we're just looking at 2 Chronicles, chapter 33. I think from verse…can I pick it up from verse 10? Nehemia: Sure. Jono: Because what it says is that "Manasseh seduced Judah and the inhabitants of Jerusalem and did more evil than the nations whom Yehovah had destroyed before the children of Israel." And verse 10, "And Yehovah spoke to Manasseh and his people, but they would not listen. Therefore, Yehovah brought upon them the captains of the army of the king of Assyria, who took Manasseh with hooks, bound him with bronze fetters, and carried him off to Babylon." Took him with hooks. And now, when he… Nehemia: Woah. I've got to stop you…so, what the Hebrew says isn’t hooks. What it says is he took him with thorns. Jono: Truly? Nehemia: And I'll bet what they had on Menashe was a crown of thorns because he was a king. Jono: Oh, wow. Keith: Oh-oh. Jono: How that…here's a Torah Pearl. We could dwell on that, but let's move on. "Now, when he was in affliction, he implored Yehovah, his Elohim, and humbled himself greatly before the God of his fathers and prayed to him. And He received his entreaty, heard his supplication, and brought him back.” Nehemia: Wait. But God can't do that. That's not allowed, right? Keith: Wait a minute. What are you talking about, Jono? Nehemia: He sinned presumptuously. That is that. There's no way out of it. Jono: He did. He sinned presumptuously. He was rebellious, and he was… Nehemia: And all he had to do was pray? What? Jono: No. That's not what…no, it says, "He humbled himself greatly." Humbled himself greatly. Nehemia: Was that a broken and contrite heart? Jono: I would say that's a broken and contrite heart. Keith: Wait, wait, wait. In the in-between, he must have gotten to a priest and given a sacrifice. Jono: No. It doesn't say that. It says, "He humbled himself greatly before Yehovah." He's in Babylon…no, he's in Assyria, but he's been taken away. And he prayed to Yehovah. Keith: So, there's no temple. Jono: There's no temple. Keith: There's no priest. Jono: There's no priest. Nehemia: There's a temple. Keith: Not exactly true, but... Nehemia: Well, look at verse 13. Jono: No. Where he is, though. I mean, where is he? Nehemia: Alright. Okay. That's true. Jono: He's not there. He's been taken away into exile “And Yehovah received his entreaty and heard his supplication and brought him back to Jerusalem, into the kingdom. Then, Manasseh knew that Yehovah was God.” Keith: Jono, thank you for... Nehemia: Wow…how about…because there's this statement that Keith has shared with the people too, where Elijah is battling with the false prophets of Baal on Mount Carmel. And he gets the people to proclaim, "Yehovah, hu ha-Elohim. Yehovah, hu ha-Elohim." Yehovah, he is God. Yehovah, he is God. And that's what it says here, "And Menashe knew that Yehovah hu ha-Elohim." Yehovah is God. Jono: Amen. And just incidentally, is not the book of Jonah similar to this, when Yehovah said to Jonah, "You will go to Nineveh." Like it or not, you're going there. And you're going to tell them to repent. Because they're doing wickedly. They have to repent. And what we see there is that the king eventually...after the fish spits him out, and he takes his message to them. And the king of Nineveh says, "Oh, my goodness. Okay, everyone, sackcloth and…", it's very much like the day of atonement, right? And there's no sacrifices, as far as we see. All we see is repentance. And Yehovah pardons them. Nehemia: What I really like here is verses 15-16, which I'm going to go ahead and read. Jono: Go on. Nehemia: Because this is after he's repented and after Yehovah accepted his repentance, brought him to the land, gave him back his kingdom. And then, it says in verse 15, "He took away the foreign Gods and the idols from the house of Yehovah." Jono: Amen. It was in the house of Yehovah? My goodness. Nehemia: Here, he's in good faith repenting. He doesn't know yet that he hasn't finished the process. He's not perfect. Only after all that does he take away the foreign Gods and the idol from the house of Yehovah and all the altars he built on the Mount of the house of Yehovah in Jerusalem, and he cast them out of the city. And it says in Hebrew, "And he built the altar of Yehovah." I mean, he repaired it. I'm translating, "He built the altar of Yehovah, and he sacrificed upon it, peace offerings…", excuse me, “…peace offerings and thanks offerings. And he said to Judah to serve Yehovah, the God of Israel.” So, here's he has repented. And what does he do? Well, I'm sure he said to himself, "I've got to bring the sin offering. I've got to bring the whole-burnt offering because that's the one that gives me the atonement." But he doesn't even bring those sacrifices when he finally rebuilds the Temple. He rebuilds the altar of the Temple, cleanses it from the idols. Then, why do you have to build the altar? Because pagan sacrifices have been altered on the altar, he had to tear it down and rebuild it, so he could have a clean altar. And then, he brought peace offerings and thank offerings. Wow. Jono: There it is. Keith: You know, it's amazing, guys. One of the things I appreciate about what's happening in this particular portion is that the idea…again, and I'm coming from my perspective, where I've come from. The idea of opening up the book of Leviticus would almost be…what could we possibly understand from the book of Leviticus? There's no more Temple. There are no more sacrifices. What does this matter? But in this simple, but very…I don’t like this word "simple". In this approach, we're basically trying to get under what the purpose of this was. And that's why I so much appreciate this. And Jono, the idea that you just brought. I mean, the concept that you brought. The verse that you brought, with Manasseh. I mean, at first I was thinking, "What is Jono doing?" and, "This is… Jono: Jumping to the end of the bible. Keith: But exactly, it had…definitely, that's… Nehemia: We’re in chapter one of Leviticus! Keith: Yeah. I mean, I thought this is one of those deals that Nehemia was going to bring a verse and I didn't know…you guys surprise me every time. This is impressive. I really appreciate this. Jono: When you find yourself in this kind of situation, when you look back upon your life, particularly when you've discovered new things, when your eyes are opened to understand what...that's it! The wonderful, hidden things of his Torah, and then you say…because, particularly coming from my tradition, Keith, I've met a lot of people in the same situation where they'd panic and they go, "Oh my goodness." Then read about Manasseh, and to read how Yehovah dealt with him, and how he repented. And as Nehemia pointed out from Psalm 51, the broken and contrite heart. And you can find encouragement from that. And you can literally throw yourself before Yehovah and rely upon his mercy and be repentant. So, I'm really glad that we got to do that. That's a Torah Pearl. Nehemia: Here's another kind of interesting thing, which is, read the section on peace offerings and the thanks offerings in Leviticus. The peace offering is Leviticus 3. The thank offering, we'll actually get to next week. You won't find anywhere in those descriptions the word "atonement". So, those sacrifices, the specific sacrifices he brought…and it says before, because it's kind of obvious. I guess maybe it's not obvious. Those were not atonement sacrifices. There is no atonement involved in bringing the peace offering or thank offering. Jono: So, it's called a peace offering. But what…I mean, is it as if they don't have peace between them and God? I mean, what is it? What is that about? Nehemia: So, a peace offering is a sacrifice that you bring as a way of showing, really, your thanks; your gratefulness to God. It's a way of showing that you're in a state of peace, and you're bringing that to God. The difference between the peace offering and the burnt offering, in a sense, is that you actually eat. The person who brings it eats the peace offering... Jono: Ah, and this is verse 11. Nehemia: He doesn't eat the whole-burnt offering. It's obviously completely burnt. And…none of these offerings are… Jono: I was going to ask you about this. Because it says in verse 11, "And the priest shall burn them on the altar as food, as an offering made by fire to Yehovah." And obviously, Yehovah is not eating the offering. So, it says, "as food", which we understand that they themselves partake of what becomes a meal. Nehemia: No, no, no, no. What chapter are you? Jono: Ah, okay. So, this is Leviticus 3:11, at least in my translation. So, you are telling me that they actually eat the peace offering? Or how do you answer that? Nehemia: So first of all, it says "lehem", which is bread. It literally says, "And the priest shall burn it." Actually, it's not talking about the meat. I mean, if we're talking about the peace offering, there were parts of the peace offerings they did eat. But verse 11 is specifically talking about what's described in verse 9, which is the fat. The forbidden fat. There are actually six types of forbidden fat with the sheep, and five for the goat and the bull, and those are burnt on the altar. That's what's called "lehem esh le Yehovah." A bread. A fire offering to Yehovah. In other words, in some kind of symbolic sense, this is the bread of Yehovah. Does Yehovah actually eat it? I don't believe so. But I'm sure somebody could argue that he does. Jono: So, we're back to the question; does he actually smell it? Or does he actually eat it? Nehemia: Right. Does he smell it? Does he eat it? Does he taste it? I don't think in the literal sense. But it's being described in those symbolic terms. Jono: And yet, it is absolutely specified in verse 16, "All the fat belongs to Yehovah." Nehemia: Right. Right. Exactly. Jono: He likes the fat. Nehemia: Then, it talks about how you can't eat the fat in any animal. In any of these types of animals that you sacrificed, you can't eat the fat. That's in verse 17. "'It's an eternal statute throughout your generations in all your habitations." And they translate the word as fat, but that's not really accurate. The word is "helev", which is a specific type of fat. Th

In this episode of Prophet Pearls, Nehemia Gordon and Keith Johnson discuss the Prophets portion for Vayikra covering Isaiah 43:21-44:23. This portion parallels the Torah’s central section on sacrifices. Gordon and Johnson delve deep into the issues of sacrifice, obedience and idolatry.  Word studies include:  “blot out” (with its historical context of a debt certificate), “first father” (with Jewish and Christian perspectives on original sin), and “bow down” (with its exclusive connection to idolatry). “Jeshurun,” the poetic nickname for Israel, offers a particularly lustrous pearl, as we learn its meaning, its usage in the Tanakh and its connection to the name Israel. Gordon and Johnson reveal the transgression of the “mediators” and the danger of blindly following anyone—reminding listeners that they serve only as river guides; all can access information, expect inspiration and receive revelation. In closing, Gordon prays that we be worthy of the name of Israel and that the day comes soon when trees and rocks cry out the redemption of Israel. "Your translators transgressed against me." (Isaiah 43:27) I look forward to reading your comments. https://audio.nehemiaswall.com/Prophet-Pearls/Prophet-Pearls-24-Vayikra.mp3 Download Prophet Pearls Vayikra Transcript Prophet Pearls #24 - Vayikra (Isaiah 43:21-44:23) You are listening to Prophet Pearls with Nehemia Gordon and Keith Johnson. Thank you for supporting Nehemia Gordon's Makor Hebrew Foundation. Learn more at NehemiasWall.com. Keith: Welcome back to Prophet Pearls. This is your host Keith Johnson, along with my friend Nehemia Gordon. I am still without my suitcase. We are in the third recording. I have no suitcase. It’s been three days and two nights. I’m looking for a miracle. Nehemia: Three days and two nights with the same underwear. Keith: Well listen, folks, we’re here in the Land of Israel. Nehemia: Lord, help me. Keith: Yes. We’re in the Land of Israel. We said we would do whatever it takes, and we literally are doing whatever it takes. Nehemia and I are here, we’re actually getting into an amazing passage, but I have to tell you before we get started, Nehemia, I’ve had a bit of a crisis in this safe house that you have me staying in. I was up at about 4 o’clock in the morning, and as you know - folks that don’t know, we actually can’t sleep in the same place because we don’t have two places. You’ve got a place, you’re sleeping at Bubby Dina’s. I’m here in the safe house, and we’re recording here. Nehemia: There’s only one bed. Can I share a really funny story? I wrote to the people we rented this place from, and I wrote to her in Hebrew, and I said, “My partner and I will need the apartment.” In Hebrew, that word “partner” is ambiguous. Since there’s only one bed, I think she leaped to some conclusions perhaps. But somebody say, “separate beds.” Keith: What are you talking about? Nehemia: I’m at my mother’s house. Keith: Exactly. But we have this place available so that we can record at any time, and I actually thought last night that we might record early in the morning. I woke up at about 4:30 in the morning, sent you a note, and you didn’t respond. So I got in a little trouble. Nehemia: My mother made a wonderful omelet, and I had a great breakfast. Keith: I have nothing in the refrigerator. I haven’t had anything to eat. But the good news is, this morning I had a little bit of a push, Nehemia, and we’re going to get right into this Prophet Pearls. I want to thank our friend Dominique from Tampa, who is our Prophet Pearls Partner. He stepped in early in the process. Dominique, thank you so much for this. Nehemia: Todah. Keith: We’re in Isaiah 43. For all the people that have been supporting us in this process, we had to do something that was not on the schedule. We had to fly into the Land of Israel, and there are so many things that are going to take place in the next couple of weeks. One, that we’re going to be recording, but two, I just think that we’re here, it’s kind of a setup, Nehemia. I want to tell everyone right now I do think it’s a setup. I woke up this morning and was really confronted with something that I’ve really been struggling with, and it has to do with why I so love this process that we’re in of sharing the Word of God with people. What I don’t like about sharing the Word of God is that sometimes people can look at you and say, “Okay, you’re going to be the great teacher. You’re going to be the sage. You’re going to be the one that’s going to give me all the information,” and I’ve never had that sort of situation with you. We’ve always taken the approach that we want to give access to the information for people. Now, that doesn’t mean that people are going to go through the same process that you did. [imitating Nehemia] Nehemia Gordon from the Hebrew University who spent all these years, and the things that I’ve done. They’re not always going to do that. But I think that our approach, and correct me if I’m wrong, our approach is to give them the ability to see for themselves what it is that we’re talking about. That is really important to me because I think there’s so much going on right now where that’s not the case. I was actually listening to something today that really vexed me, and it had to do with people that were promoting the idea that you cannot know the Torah unless you’ve got a rabbinic commentary. If you don’t have the running commentary, you literally can’t know it, which means obviously, not only could you not know it, you couldn’t teach it. I vehemently oppose this. Nehemia: It means something else, as well. It means that if you read Scripture by yourself, you will be deceived by the words of God because you will think you understand them, and in fact, you need the interpreter, you need the translator, you need the intermediary. Without the intermediary of the rabbis, you cannot understand the Word of God. That’s what the rabbis claim. What I’m all about, as a Karaite Jew, is, no, I want to engage with the Word of God myself. I want to engage with the Creator of the universe, read His word, and I believe it is knowable without the intermediary. That’s what I’ve always been about; empowering people with information. That’s what my ministry Makor Hebrew Foundation is about. It’s not, “Here, I’m going to spoon-feed people the answers”, but I’m going to present them, “Look, here are the sources, go check them out for yourself; own the information for yourself.” Karaite Jews have this saying that it’s better that you get the interpretation wrong but you got it by yourself than that you blindly follow somebody else. Because if you blindly follow one of the teachers of the diaspora when we don’t have prophets, we don’t have the Temple with the high priest with the urim and tumim. When you don’t have that, then every reading of Scripture is somebody’s interpretation, and at least when you engage it yourself, it’s your interpretation based on the information that you have and your relationship with the Creator of the universe, rather than blindly following the words of a man. If you blindly follow the words of another man, who is a flesh and blood human being, not a prophet, and it’s not the Word of God, what you’re doing is you’ve put up those words as the Word of God, and that’s basically idolatry. Keith: Right. Here’s where the tension comes in, for me, because I’ve so much appreciated many of my friends, rabbis, and others, who have spent their life learning the Word of God and teaching the Word of God. I’ve been really blessed to be able to interact with people like that. The struggle that I have is that it almost seems like there’s a pulling out the rug from under people that literally they can’t know; they can’t have access. There’s an impossibility for them and that hasn’t been my journey. My journey has been to have to learn each letter and vowel and consonant, and it’s still a process. It’s a lifelong process. But I love having the ability to open the Word of God and to see it for myself and then to ask the question, how do I apply it to my life? I do believe there’s a spiritual aspect to the Word of God and reading and understanding and asking for discernment and for wisdom. Also interacting; what we’re doing, Nehemia, we’re interacting with each other. I want people to feel like they can be encouraged to interact with the sources and all of that. But when you get to the place that says, “You cannot! You cannot understand it unless you have someone else tell you,” that’s where I feel like the line has been crossed. That’s just for me, something I’ve been struggling with. Nehemia: So look, I mean this isn’t on the topic of Isaiah 43, but actually the day this is supposed to be broadcast, March 21, 2015, is the day that if we find the aviv barley, that will be the beginning of the Hebrew year, the sighting of the new moon. If everything goes the way we expect it - maybe God has other plans. Keith: Yes. Nehemia: It’s interesting what you’re saying. It’s inspiring me to… Can I read you something that I wrote in 2011? Keith: Sure. Nehemia: Really, what I think you’re saying is that when we engage directly with the Word of God, there’s a struggle. When you go and you have the rabbis spoon-feed you then there’s complete unity, everybody agrees… Keith: And not just the rabbi, Nehemia. Let me be clear. It’s not just the rabbi. From my tradition, we’ve got the people, that were the bishops, the preachers, the popes, and everyone else. Nehemia: There’s great comfort for many people in blindly following what the pope says, for over a billion people. There’s great comfort for a million, or hundreds of thousands of Jews who blindly follow what the rabbi says. They don’t have to think for themselves because it’s scary when you have to think for yourself and engage Scripture and you come to the verse and you see, “Wait, there’s a contradiction there, and there’s something I don’t understand.” Keith: There something I don’t understand. I don't know what it is. Nehemia: It’s much easier to say, “Well, here’s what the rabbi says it is. I don’t have to think about it and activate my brain.” But then you’re not engaging with the Word of God. I don’t know if you remember this, but in 2011 we went down to Egypt, and it was the time of… Keith: What do you mean? It was the highlight of my life. Nehemia: Really? When Mubarak was just overthrown, and here’s what I wrote to people. I wrote a little piece called “Aviv Shmaviv.” Keith: Yes. Nehemia: Look, I think the aviv is extremely important, but I think sometimes what we do is we focus so much on the truth that we’ve discovered, and we’re focusing so much on the tree, that we forget the forest. I’m more guilty of that than many people because, as an Aspie, I have a tendency towards that. So I was reminding myself more than others… Keith: You’re still riding that Aspie bus? Nehemia: Absolutely, I’m sticking with that. All right. “Many people call for unity, but what they really mean is uniformity.” This is what I wrote. “They claim unity is,” actually, I want to go back here.. Keith: Right there, that was a great statement. Nehemia: No, it is. I agree with you, and there I’m quoting myself. But no, I’m going to jump ahead. I’m not going to read the whole thing. People can find this online on my website, nehemiaswall.com, it’s called “Aviv Shmaviv.” But here it is, “I got some real insight into unity last week when Keith Johnson and I were down in Egypt. Unless you’ve been serving on a deep-water submarine or stuck in Canada, then you know Egypt is a country still recovering from thirty years of rule by a brutal dictator.” People have such a short memory, but at the time, this was the top story in the world. Keith: It was huge. Nehemia: “Keith and I had the opportunity to sit down with several Bedouin men in Nuweiba, on the shores of the Red Sea, where the Israelites crossed over from slavery into freedom. I asked them what they thought of the overthrow of Mubarak. One young man,” I don’t know if you remember this... Keith: Yes. Nehemia: “One young man was nostalgic about the fallen dictator, insisting that as bad as he was, at least there was ‘unity’ under his rule. This young Bedouin man has never known the basic freedoms many of us take for granted. He was terrified by the ‘division’ that now racks his country. I realize that political tyranny creates unity at the cost of freedom, just as spiritual tyranny creates unity at the cost of truth and the individual’s relationship of faith with God.” To me, that’s what this is about. That’s what this Prophet Pearls is about. It’s about… let’s show people a picture, an example of what you can do if you cast off the chains of spiritual tyranny and engage with the Word of God yourself. Look, we don’t agree on many things. We don’t see eye to eye on many things, and that’s okay. Some people might look at this and say, “This is complete chaos. There’s division. They’re confusing us.” What that is, is those are people who are struggling for the first time in their life with encountering freedom, because freedom is challenging and it’s scary, and it does appear that it’s division. But what it really is, is that you’re engaging with the Word of God, and it’s true. There’s this false unity, but this is truth. Keith: You know it’s interesting, Nehemia, a lot of people ask the question about why we do this. This is a very rare situation, because I am not a person who’s looking to figure out how you can let me know, “Hey, how can I become a Karaite? How can I become Jewish? How can I become the next great rabbinic teacher or sage?” Or whatever anything like that. I know who I am, I know where I come from in my heritage, and I’ve joined myself to the God of Israel through understanding the Word of God in its language, history, and context. I’m excited about that. I don’t need to do anything else, even though we’ve had this discussion. Nehemia: What do you mean? You don’t need to jump through the rabbi’s hoops? Otherwise, you don’t count. Keith: Yes, you don’t count. Nehemia: This is what they’ll tell you. Keith: Yes. But let me just say this, and I want to say this in sensitivity; I do believe there is a process that we need to go through to understand the Word of God. We’ve got to go through that hard process of getting some of the information. What I struggle with is when people don’t have any of the information, they simply go and get the opinion of another person, and then they bring that as authority, and then start beating people over the head with the opinion of this other person as authority. That’s what I see is running rampant, and that’s what I don’t want to be a part of. I want to give people access to the information. Nehemia: Amen. Keith: So this is kind of what I’ve been struggling with all night. Now, we’re going to get into Isaiah 43. But I think there are some amazing things in this passage. Nehemia: Did you know when you brought this up, did you know Isaiah actually addresses this exact issue? Keith: I had no idea. Nehemia: I wished you would wait until we got to the verse. Because we’re going to have to talk about this when we speak about that verse in Isaiah. Keith: Of course, yes. Well, let’s start out. Nehemia: Let’s get into it. Keith: Before we get started, I want to just say something. Do you find it’s interesting that Isaiah 43:21 starts at the end of the section? Nehemia: It’s the end of a prophecy. Keith: Yes. Nehemia: It’s completely disconnected from the context. Keith: I just don’t, again, I don’t know where this tradition is coming from, these people picking - but this is an example, where it’s like, you know, at the end. Nehemia: Specifically, there is a prophecy - Isaiah 43 verses 16-21 in the Hebrew is a unit unto itself. Our section here of the Prophet Pearls, of the weekly Prophet portion read in many synagogues around the world, begins in verse 21 at the tail-end of that prophecy. I wish we had time so that we could go through the entire prophecy of Isaiah 43:16-21… Keith: We don’t. Nehemia: But I say we just jump into the next prophecy because then we’ll have a context. Keith: Yes. Well, we do have to, at least say this, “The people who formed it for myself,” it says - I’m sorry. If you can, you have 43:21, can you tell me what 43…? Nehemia: “The people that I formed for Myself they shall tell My praise.” Which is a beautiful verse, but what’s the context? It’s completely cut off, but whatever. All right. Let’s go to verse 22, which is now a new prophecy. Keith: Okay. Awesome. I’m reading in the NAS here, it says, “Yet you have not called on Me, O Jacob; But you have become weary of Me, O Israel.” Again, we’re going to be dealing with these… when we get to Isaiah and different sections, especially with Isaiah and others, there’s like this poetic thing that’s going on. Here’s a statement, here’s another statement to confirm it. Here’s a statement, here’s another statement to confirm it. So we want to know what we're reading and how we’re reading. It’s not like a narrative. We’re not reading, “And Abraham walked down the street and did...” Nehemia: Right. Most prophecies in ancient times were very short. We think about the prophecy of Jonah, where we have the example of how it was given. We don’t know how these prophecies were given; we just have the prophecy without the story behind it. But the prophecy of Jonah was, “Arbaim yom veNinveh nehepachat,” four words in Hebrew, “Forty days and Nineveh is overthrown.” That’s his entire prophecy, he walks to the city for three days back and forth just shouting out, “Forty days and Nineveh is overthrown!” “Forty days…” So imagine, here we’ve got a prophecy Isaiah 43 verses 22 to 24, which is its own unit in Hebrew. Now, yours translated it as, “yet.” Keith: “Yet.” Nehemia: That implies that this is a continuation of what came before it. But in the Hebrew, that’s not entirely clear, it just says “and”. In Hebrew writing, “and,” could open up an entire book. Keith: Exactly. Nehemia: Like we’re actually, this week, as we’re recording - this is prerecorded obviously - as we’re recording is the week of Purim, and the book of Esther begins, “Vayehi bimei Achashverosh.” “And it came to pass,” or literally, “And it was in the days of Achashverosh.” Some people have looked at that, who don’t know Hebrew, and they say, “Wait a minute, ‘and’? What is it following?” It’s not following anything, “and” can actually open up a new thing in Hebrew. So where it opens up it says, “And,” now there’s obviously a theme connection to the previous verse, which is why the prophecy was stuck here, but the original context of this prophecy was three verses by itself, verses 22-24. Keith: Yes. Nehemia: It’s interesting, there’s a contrast here for sure, between verse 21, he’s saying, “They tell my praises.” But then verse 22 is a different message altogether. Keith: Exactly. Nehemia: “You don’t call upon me, Jacob.” Which one is it? Well, that’s because originally these prophecies were not connected. In the Hebrew text, you still see that. You see there’s a break after 21 and before 22. Keith: So it says, “Yet you have not called on Me, O Jacob; But you have become weary of Me, O Israel. You have not brought to Me the sheep of your burnt offerings, nor have you honored Me with your sacrifices. I have not burdened you with offerings, nor wearied you with incense.” Next verse, “You have bought Me not sweet cane with money,” Oh. “You have bought Me not sweet cane with money, nor have you filled Me with the fat of your sacrifices. Rather, you have burdened Me with your sins, you have wearied Me with your iniquities.” So we’re talking about these issues… transfers from the issue of the sacrifices to something, if I can say this word, it’s more personal. It’s like, “Here are the offerings, et cetera, et cetera. Rather, what you’ve done is you brought me your sins rather than bringing me sacrifices; you have burdened me with your iniquities.” Nehemia: Well, I think it’s significant that… and obviously this is a tradition that we read this section along with the portion of Leviticus chapter 1 verse 1 through, let’s see, it’s through… You know, this is the portion for Vayikra, which is Leviticus 1:1 through 5:26, which is the central section in the entire Torah on the sacrifices. So whoever set up this tradition chose these verses really as, “Yes, we’ve got to bring sacrifices, but it’s not just about sacrifices.” Keith: Amen. Nehemia: In fact, most sacrifices have nothing to do with sin. Most sacrifices in Leviticus are sacrifices that were brought by the priests, and it wasn’t for the individual who had sinned against God. There’s this theme that we’re going to come back to again and again and again in the Prophet Pearls, because it’s in the Prophets - I don’t know that we need to talk too much at length about it here - but this theme that comes again and again and again, which is that God wants obedience, not sacrifices. Keith: Halleluyah. Nehemia: It’s not that sacrifices aren’t commanded in the Torah; there are certain rituals that will be carried out when the Messiah comes, according to Ezekiel. We read that in one of the Ezekiel sections, it’s in chapters 40 through 48 of Ezekiel. There will be sacrifices at the end time and some of those will be for sin offerings, but that is only once there’s obedience. If there’s no obedience, He doesn’t want it. That’s not what this is about. Keith: I always think of it this way. I think of the sacrifice as being an overflow of what’s happening in the heart. Here’s what you do. I think of the story of Cain and Abel. Abel comes and he brings his offering, Cain brings his offering, people argue, “Oh, it was the wrong offering.” No, they’re both legitimate offerings, but it was how it was brought. What was the heart? What was going on in the inside? Nehemia: That’s what God says to him. He says, “Im tetiv se’et,” “If you do well, there will be forgiveness.” “Im lo tativ," "If you don’t do goodness then there’s going to be sin crouching at the door." Keith: Right. Nehemia: I love verse 25. Honestly, we could read verse 25 and we’d be done. Keith: Yes. Nehemia: It says… I’m going to read it in Hebrew, “Anochi, anochi hu moche fesha’echa lema’ani,” “I, even I.” That’s how your English has it, right, “I, even I”? Keith: Yes. Nehemia: It’s just the word, “Anochi.” “I” twice, as an extra emphasis. “I, I am the one who erases your transgressions for My sake.” Isn’t that beautiful? Keith: It is. Nehemia: God erases our transgression for His sake. I love the word for “erases” here is “moche,” which is literally “to blot out.” Now, people hear all the time about blotting out. What does that mean? So back then, they didn’t have erasers. I don’t even know if the young generations know what white-out is. Did you have white-out in your generation? Keith: Yes, of course. That’s how you make the paper... Nehemia: Right. So the British call it Tipp-Ex. It’s where you take this material and you put it, and it’s actually white paint or something like that that covers the mistake. They didn’t have that in ancient times. What they did is they would write on parchment, and when you wanted to get rid of a word, if you wrote the wrong word, or let’s say you had a debt - this is actually the image here, there is a certificate of debt, and the debt says, “Keith owes Nehemia three hundred dollars.” So it says it in the letter and there are witnesses who sign it. Then when Keith pays the debt, what happens is you don’t just tear it up, because then there’s no record. How do we know that it was paid? So what happens is the scribe comes along with water, and he puts the water on the ink where says the debt is owed, and he dissolves the ink. That is literally what to blot out means. To blot out, in biblical Hebrew, this word, is a word that implies water to dissolve the ink. He says, “I, even I am the one who blots out,” literally who dissolved with water, “your transgression for My sake.” So, there’s a certificate of debt that God has against us for our transgressions, and God is going to… He’s the one, no other, Him. He’s the one who’s going to blot it out for His sake. He says, “vechatotecha lo ezkor,” “and your transgressions,” your sins, literally, “I will not mention,” I will not remember, as well, it could mean. Wow. That’s awesome. So God is saying, “You think you need sacrifices? You think you need this blood? You think you need this incense, the slaughtering of sheep? This is not what it’s about. I’m the one who’s going to blot out your transgression, not the sheep, not the incense, not the fat of the sacrifice. It’s going to be Me. So you’ve got to deal with Me. Don’t hide behind your sacrifice.” Keith: Amen. Now do me a favor, Nehemia. I want you to look at something while I make a comment on this. I want you to go to, “Anochi, anochi” and see how many times that shows up. While you’re doing that, one of the things I would like to share with people is this verse really connects to a verse that, for me, for the longest time has been such an amazing verse that I can hardly wrap my mind around it. It’s in Psalm 103:12, I think, it’s in Psalm 103:12. Yes, it says, “As far as the east is from the west, so far have I removed,” I think this is the idea of, “As far as the east is from the west,” and I think to myself... Nehemia: 103:12? Keith: Yes, I believe it’s 103:12. It might be different in yours. Nehemia: Yes. Keith: “As far as the east is from the west,” but what I wanted you to look for is how many times… Nehemia: That has, “For He has removed our transgressions.” Keith: Yes, “removed our transgressions.” “Anochi, anochi.” Nehemia: Yes, so three times we have “Anochi, anochi.” Twice is in the passage that we’re reading - once in 43:11, once in 43:25, and the third time is Isaiah 51:12. Keith: Amen. Nehemia: So this is clearly a phraseology that is appearing in this part of Isaiah. Pretty cool. Keith: But I think what’s interesting, He says, “As far as the east is from the west,” and I used to try to put my mind around what that means. That just means, how far we’re... Nehemia: Actually, yes, 43:11 is in a previous section that we’re not getting to it, it’s in the prophecy we skipped, where He says, “I,” “Anochi, anochi Yehovah.” “I, even I am Yehovah. And beside Me, ve’ein biladai moshia,” “besides me there is no savior.” I love that verse. Keith: We’re going to get further into that also. Nehemia: Yes. So this removing transgression east from west, it’s going to be that far away, as far as we can possibly conceive as human beings. He’s going to remove our sins. I love it. Keith: Well now, let me say this though. I know we’re going to do 26, but 27 is really connected. It says, “Put Me in remembrance, let us argue our case together, state your cause, that you may be proved right.” Then He does this really weird thing. That’s not really so weird when you read it in Hebrew, it’s kind of cool. “Your first forefather sinned,” and now here’s the connection, “and your spokesmen,” it says here in the NASB, “have transgressed against Me.” Now, can you read that? Nehemia: Wow. There’s so much to talk about in this verse. Let’s take it one thing at a time. Keith: Yes. Nehemia: You have, “your forefathers?” Keith: Yes, “Your first forefather.” Nehemia: Really, “your first forefather”? That’s really interesting because this is… what translation is this? Keith: The NASB. Nehemia: Which is a Christian translation, am I right? Keith: Yes. Nehemia: Would you say that? Meaning this wasn’t translated by Jews, was it? In the Hebrew, it doesn’t say, “your forefathers.” It says, “your first father.” Keith: Yes. Nehemia: Let me just see if there are other translations that agree with what it says in Hebrew. I don’t know, let's see. The JPS, which is the Jewish Publication Society, has, “your earliest ancestor sinned.” It’s in the singular; there is no plural. “Thy first father hath sinned,” in the King James. In the Hebrew, it’s very definitive, it’s “avicha.” “Your fathers” would be “avotecha,” your fathers. Here, it’s the one father. It’s very interesting we have this concept here… who is the first father that sinned? Is it talking about Abraham? Maybe it’s talking about... Keith: Yes. Is it Jacob? Is it Abraham? Nehemia: I think it’s got to be Adam. Keith: It’s got to be Adam. Nehemia: Then here’s the interesting thing. If you were coming from the Christian perspective, you could take this and say, this is original sin. But we definitely have this concept in the Tanakh that each person is really responsible for his own actions, that’s the Tanakh concept. But there’s no question that all humans are going to suffer today from the sin of Adam, and why is that? Because Adam was commanded, “Don’t eat of the tree of knowledge of good and evil,” and he was never commanded not to eat of the tree of life. That’s not in there. The rabbis actually say that, I don’t know if you know that, but that’s what I was taught growing up, that he was commanded to eat not from one tree, but from both trees. But actually, in the Hebrew, in the original Tanakh, in the Torah, he’s only forbidden to eat from the tree of knowledge, not from the tree of life. Eventually, it’s possible he would have eaten from the tree of life and lived forever, but instead, he chose to violate God’s commandment, and that is a picture. That’s a picture of the Torah, which is… through the Torah we have this opportunity to once again eat from the tree of life and live forever. I’m not just making that up, that’s in Proverbs 3:18, it says - it’s a very famous verse, it’s sung in the synagogue - “Etz chaim hi lamachazikim ba,” “It is a tree of life to those who grab hold of it.” The Torah Proverbs 3:18. Keith: Did you used to sing that, Nehemia? Nehemia: I did. Keith: Are you serious? Nehemia: Yes. So here’s an example where we have this idea in Genesis, and then it’s sort of explained in Proverbs, that the Torah itself is the tree of life, and that’s of course in Deuteronomy; it talks about, “I placed before you the choice between life and death, good and evil. Choose life that you may live.” So we definitely have this idea that, yes, Adam sinned and therefore we’re on the line. I can’t just go eat from the tree, now I have… but I get a second chance. Keith: Yes. Nehemia: My second chance is by eating from the tree of life, which is the Torah. So it’s interesting, He says here, “your first father sinned.” It says, “u’melitzecha pash’u bi.” “And your,” what do you have there? For melitzecha, you had your – what did you have there? Keith: “Your spokesmen.” Nehemia: “Your spokesmen.” I love it. Keith: “…have transgressed against Me.” Yes. Nehemia: “And your spokesmen have transgressed against Me.” So here the King James has, “your teachers.” The N.J.P.S., the Jewish Publication Society, has, “your spokesmen.” Is that what you’re reading, “spokesmen”? Keith: Yes. It says, “And your spokesmen.” Yes. Nehemia: Okay. But that’s in NASB. Oh, that’s the true translation of the spokesmen. So literally, “melitz,” in Hebrew is an interpreter. “Your interpreters have transgressed against Me.” The place we find this word is in Genesis 42 verse 23, and it talks about the brothers standing before Joseph who is the viceroy of Egypt, and they don’t realize that it's Joseph. They think it’s some Egyptian; he’s dressed like an Egyptian, he looks like an Egyptian, he’s speaking Egyptian. So they’re talking amongst themselves in Hebrew, and it says, “And they did not know that Joseph heard,” literally, or understood, “ki hamelitz benotam,” “for the interpreter was between them.” In other words, the brothers would speak in Hebrew, and the interpreter would translate that into Egyptian. Joseph would speak in Egyptian and the translator would translate that into Hebrew. So the brothers were talking amongst themselves, not realizing Joseph knows what they’re saying because he doesn’t need the translator, he speaks Hebrew. So that’s what a “melitz” is. “Melitz” is not a spokesman, it’s actually an interpreter. He’s saying here, “Your interpreters have transgressed against Me.” I wish you had waited to talk about this whole issue of how we need the rabbis to know what’s in the Torah because they are the “melitzim,” they are the interpreters; they are the translators and the translators aren’t always reliable. The interpreters aren’t always reliable, that’s the message here. That there were people even back then who maybe weren’t translating it from Hebrew into some other language, but they were translating the Torah into the daily lives of the people. God is saying, “Those translators who are telling you, ‘Here’s what the Torah really means.’ Those were people who had transgressed against God,” and these are the people He’s calling to task. This to me is a warning that we must not blindly follow what the interpreters do. What’s the message here? The message here is God is saying, “Let’s get rid of these interpreters. Let’s get rid of these intermediaries.” That’s another translation of the word “melitz” is “intermediary.” God’s saying, “I don’t want to have a situation where there’s the translator, the interpreter, the intermediary between Me and you. I want this direct interaction with you, because the interpreter… they might transgress against Me and lead you astray.” I love the picture of Joseph; he’s sitting on the throne and the eleven brothers are standing around, or the ten brothers – however many there were then. They’re talking amongst themselves and they can’t interact directly with Joseph. They’ve got to have this intermediary, this interpreter, and God’s saying, “Let’s cast out the intermediary, cast out the interpreter. I want to talk to you directly because those interpreters have transgressed against Me.” Keith: Isn’t it amazing though that part of human nature that says - and we go back to the mountain, where we see God speaks and the people say, “We don’t want to hear from Him.” Sometimes if we hear from Him it’s overwhelming, and so what do they say? You speak to Him, He’ll speak to you. Again, we hear the story about the fact that that was the right thing that needed to happen. Nehemia: Right. But the beauty is that now we can go and we can hear the Torah. Keith: We can go and we can hear the Torah for ourselves. Yes Nehemia: We can hear exactly what Moses heard. Imagine that. Isn’t that amazing? Keith: Yes. Nehemia: It’s not just Moses coming out and saying, “Oh, you don’t need to know what this is. Just trust me. This is the application of the commandment. You don’t need to worry. Don’t worry your pretty little head about it.” No, I can read the Torah and hear exactly what Moses heard. He recorded it word for word. That’s how powerful the Torah is. Why would I want to go and hear what the interpreter, what the translator has to say, when I can go and hear it for myself? Keith: Here’s where I know that there’s a lot of people that are listening that do get so frustrated because they think, “Well, how will I be able to understand it, because I’m reading through this translation, I’m reading through that translation?” That’s one of the things that I’ve really been dealing with, Nehemia, the last couple of years, is how to help people get a chance to interact with it as it was written. There are lots of challenges. There are issues that we have to deal with, grammatical issues and things like that. But I think with where we’re at in society right now, there are so many wonderful tools that people can use, and I want to help. I know that this is something you and I have talked a lot about, is being able to give people access to the information. You just did an amazing study this last week, which is now a few weeks ago, and you were talking about this whole issue of people praying to Jupiter, it’s a big controversy about the name Yahweh, back and forth. But what I loved about what you did is when you talked about the sources, you said, “Here’s the source.” And then the people could go and check that source. Nehemia: Right. You could disagree with me but go look for yourself. Keith: Yes. And I think, again, I want to keep beating this drum, that again in this passage He’s talking about, “Look, here’s what happened with the interpreter. The interpreter transgressed against Me.” But isn’t it wonderful that we actually can interact with this information? So I want to continue to do what I can to help people get the tools to do that. I know that’s also been what you did, and the most controversial thing you ever did, 13 years ago, was say, “Here’s the access to the information.” And then for me to make the choice - do I want to go through that process? I want to create ways for people to kind of have that same process; maybe not the same abusive process where you were so tough on me. Nehemia: It wasn’t abusive. Keith: You are a hard... Nehemia: I’m a tough teacher. Look, so... Keith: Let me say, there are ways for people to learn. As we go through Prophet Pearls in the next few weeks, I’m going to try to give people some hints towards how we’re going to do that. But I really do think this is the beauty of what we’re trying to do, Nehemia, is to give people a chance to learn. Nehemia: Empower people with information, that’s what my ministry is all about. Keith: Yes. Nehemia: You mentioned that study I did on Jupiter, and what I really did is I said, “Here are the sources, go check it out for yourself.” Keith: Right. Nehemia: You can look at those sources and say, “I don’t think that’s what they say. I don’t agree with you.” And that’s fine. Just this morning, I got a long epistle, a very long email from a gentleman who had listened to the study, and he said, “Look, here’s why I can't accept this, this, and that.” He starts talking about these prepositions and the vowels of the prepositions, and I was so blessed - I think he’s wrong - but I was so blessed because he had listened to what I had to say, he went and checked the sources and he came to his own conclusions. I’d rather somebody do that, even if they end up disagreeing with me and being wrong, than to blindly accept what I say, because really, it’s not about me, it’s about the Creator of the universe. That’s the thing. What some people will do is they’ll say, “This is what our holy sages say.” “This is what our holy rabbis say.” There’s really nothing to check or to employ independent thinking based on what Scripture says because they don’t give you any reasoning or any sources, they just stuff it down your throat and you’ve got to accept it; you have got no choice. I love the next verse, verse 28, He says, “And will desecrate sarei Kodesh,” the holy ministers, the holy officers. So we’ve got these people who have presented themselves as, “We’re the holy rabbis, you have to accept what I say,” and God prophesies that He will desecrate them; He doesn’t want this intermediary between us. Can I share something that happened and that for me was kind of a formative experience? It was something I encountered… it’s actually something my father said which was really profound. He was a rabbi, an Orthodox rabbi. He definitely didn’t agree with what I teach about the rabbis, obviously. But he once explained something to me that was really interesting. You’ve got this concept in Rabbinical Judaism which illustrates how powerful this interpreter, this intermediary is. The idea is if you come into a situation in your life where you don’t know what to do; you don’t know how to apply the commandments - and really, it might go either way - then what you’re supposed to do is go ask a rabbi. Whatever answer that rabbi gives you - and, of course, it’s got to be an Orthodox rabbi who’s ordained by another rabbi - whatever answer that rabbi gives you, according to my father of blessed memory, the way he described it, it’s as if that answer was the Word of God for you. What does that mean? Which is a really powerful statement. Keith: Before you go any further, let me be clear, I’m going to slow you down a little bit here. So your father, who was an Orthodox rabbi, is teaching you and he’s telling you that if you get into a situation where you don’t know the answer in a practical life circumstance or something like that, you go to the rabbi and you get the answer. Nehemia: Right. Keith: But when you get the answer that answer is binding. Nehemia: It’s 100 percent binding, and the phrase he uses is “as if that’s the Word of God.” Keith: Now, is this something your father just made up? Or is it something that he read? Nehemia: No, this is a pretty standard teaching. I don’t know if that phraseology was his or other people’s, but definitely, this is a very standard idea, that you have this whole actual literature in Rabbinical history called Responsa. Responsa is when you ask a formal question to the rabbi, it’s usually in writing, and he gives you a formal answer. That formal answer is binding on you, you cannot go ask another rabbi, even though you may know another rabbi will give you a different answer. Well, you should have asked that other rabbi in the first place. But once you get the formal answer from the rabbi, it’s binding on you and you don’t have to think anymore. You might say, “Oh, man, I don’t know if I should do this. I’m not sure I feel right doing this.” I’ll just give you an example, a very trivial example of the type that rabbis will bring. “I’m cooking soup for 500 people, and it’s Friday afternoon before Shabbat, and a fly falls in the soup and I can’t find the fly.” It sounds like a ridiculous thing but this happens in real life. Well, flies are not biblically permissible. “Do I spill out 500 liters of soup, or 500 gallons of soup, or however much it is? Or do I continue to cook it and serve it and tell people, ‘If you come across the fly, don’t eat it.’ But otherwise, we’re not going to worry about that.” So that’s something you go and ask a rabbi. That’s actually the type of question that people will ask, like if you go to yeshivas around the world where they cook for hundreds of people or Orthodox Jewish caterers, they deal with this type of thing on a daily basis. This is not like... Keith: So they ask a question, they get the answer. Nehemia: The rabbi may come and look at the soup, and he’ll say, “No, you have to spill the whole thing out.” Or, “No, you don’t.” Different rabbis may give different answers, depending on the situation and depending on all kinds of factors and considerations and situations. But whatever the answer the rabbi gives, you can’t go shop and go to another rabbi. It’s binding upon you as if it’s the Word of God. That’s the doctrine from the teachings of the rabbis. I had this story that happened. I went to an Orthodox Jewish high school, and there was this couple there, and the guy got a girl pregnant, and it happens to be that they were step-brother and sister. So they went and asked the rabbi, “Can we have an abortion?” The rabbi said no, and really that should have been the end of the story. What they did, though, was something really controversial for the Orthodox world, they went and asked a second rabbi. Keith: This is a new - this is something a story people are aware of? Nehemia: Oh, everybody in Chicago from my generation knows who these people are. I’m not going to say who they are, but everybody knows this story. So they got the abortion based on the opinion of the second rabbi. The sin in the rabbinical community wasn’t so much that they got the abortion, but that they disobeyed the instruction of the first rabbi. Obviously, people were upset they got the abortion, too. But the real issue there was that they disobeyed the first rabbi, because for them it was as if that was the Word of God, and they went and defied that word. To me, this is exactly what it’s speaking about here in Isaiah 43 verse 27, “Your first father sinned.” To me, maybe it’s not the first Adam that it’s talking about. In yours, it translates it as, “ancestors,” or “fathers”. We do have this idea in Hebrew of the collective singular, meaning an entire category of people here perhaps being referred to as “father”. What it tells me is, don’t blindly follow rabbis and interpreters, these intermediaries, just because my ancestors did. Just because my ancestors blindly followed what these rabbis had to say doesn’t mean that I have to. You might say, “Oh, well, Isaiah is not talking about that. He’s talking about what was going on in his day.” But actually, what was he talking about? He was talking about the priests at the high places or even the priests at the Temple who were sinners. The priest at the Temple would say, “Yes, you’ve got to come worship the sun image.” We hear that in the time Josiah that there were idols actually in the Temple itself. So there might be these intermediaries, these interpreters, who were in their day, as well, and they were told, “You can’t just go and follow what you heard six years ago in the public reading in the Torah, you’ve got to obey what the rabbi says. You don’t know what it means. You don’t have the right to interpret it yourself. You can’t understand it by yourself! You need the rabbi! You need the interpreter!” And God says, “Let’s get rid of these interpreters. They’ve sinned against Me. They’ve transgressed against Me. I don’t want them standing between Me and you. I’m going to desecrate them,” in verse 28. Keith: Then when you get to 44:1, this is one of the verses that I really, really love this verse, because it reminds me of who He is, and not only who He is, but how He deals with us. It says, “But now listen,” and He uses the word, “shema,” just like in Deuteronomy, “listen, O Jacob, My servant, and Israel, whom I have chosen.” Then it says, “Thus says Yehovah, who made you and formed you from the womb, who will help you, ‘Do not fear,’” And whenever I see that word “form,” I was reminded over and over and again, we see this example of Him being the one who’s the potter, He takes the clay and He takes the people and He begins to mold them and shape them and do all these wonderful things. Nehemia: Where do you get that from this word? Keith: No, I’m saying the idea - I’m sorry, Nehemia. So when I see this, first of all, I say, is this the same word? So then I go to Isaiah 44:2, and I say it’s the word, to form, the “yotzer,” the one who’s forming. Nehemia: In other words, the literal meaning of this word “to form” is “to form a pot.” For a potter forming a pot out of clay. Keith: Exactly. So the idea though, when I see this, I’m just reminding myself, I want to slow down a little bit. Because what I’ve seen in my process is that He’s taken a pot of clay, me, and at different times He’s had to push some parts of me in and polish some other parts of me, and I’m still in the process; I’m clay in the process. I think that’s why this whole process of us sharing the Word of God is a bit of humility for me. I don’t see us as a finished product. I don’t see that somehow I’ve got all the wisdom and knowledge and understanding, and I can just give this, and now you can just follow that. But that all of us would take the process of being formed. That Yehovah himself would say, “But now listen,” here’s what you did, here’s what was going on. “‘But now listen, Jacob, My servant, and Israel, whom I have chosen,’ thus says Yehovah who made you and who formed you in the womb,” who literally took you piece by piece and He’s shaping you. He says, “who will help you, do not fear, O Jacob My servant.” Then comes this word that I don’t know how you’re going to get past this word. Then it says, now can I give it in English? Nehemia: Sure. Keith: Okay. It says, “‘Do not fear, O Jacob My servant; And you Jeshurun whom I have chosen.” Nehemia: Jeshurun is what you have? Keith: That’s what it has, Jeshurun. What do you have in yours? Nehemia: I have Yeshurun. Keith: Now is there… I don’t know, you’re not going to allow this as the Word of the Week, I don’t know if you… Nehemia: We can do this as the Word of the Week. Sure. Absolutely. Keith: This is really interesting. How are you supposed to know what this is, Nehemia? Nehemia: Yes. So it’s interesting that you say that because I grew up in West Rogers Park in Chicago, and the synagogue where we used to pray when I was very young was called Yeshurun. Keith: Really? Nehemia: Yes. It was a synagogue. Keith: You’re kidding me? Nehemia: No. Keith: Okay. So tell us about this… Nehemia: It was across… there was a park, and on the other side of the park was the synagogue. Keith: “Yeshurun whom I have chosen,” it says. Nehemia: Right. Keith: So tell us. Nehemia: We knew Yeshurun is a nickname for Israel. Keith: Tell us through the process. What do you mean you knew that? Nehemia: Meaning, it was a synagogue... Keith: How did the people know that? Nehemia: We just know. But in Hebrew, you see the similarity, you see that connection. First of all, Yeshurun appears four times in the Tanakh. Deuteronomy 32:15 is the first example. It says, “Vayishman Yeshurun vayivat,” “And Yeshurun grew fat and he kicked,” et cetera, et cetera. Deuteronomy 33:5, “And there was in Yeshurun a king.” Then Deuteronomy 33:26, “There is none like the God of Yeshurun.” It’s very clear that this is referring to Israel. Isaiah 44:2 is actually the only time outside of the Torah, outside of Deuteronomy, that it appears. Keith: Yes. Nehemia: So how do we get from Israel to Yeshurun? Well, Israel in Hebrew is “Yisrael.” Keith: Yes! Nehemia: You say Yeshurun is a poetic form of it, but what’s the connection? So they both appear... they’re visually similar in Hebrew, even though they don’t sound similar. Specifically, the root of... well, what is the root of the name Israel? It’s “sarar,” Sin, Resh, Resh, which means “to strive,” “to struggle,” maybe “to wrestle.” The root of the word Yeshurun is Yud, Shin, Resh, which means “straight,” or honest, integral, to have integrity. Often we’ll hear the word integrity in the English, and the word is “yashar” in Hebrew, yud, Shin, Resh. Keith: Yes. “Yashar,” “yashar.” Nehemia: Yes, right, when you drive on the roads in Israel and it zigzags all over the place, but you’re staying on the same road, you say, “Yashar, yashar, kol hazman yashar.” “Straight, straight, the whole time straight.” It’s called straight, even though the road turns because you’re on the same road, because Jerusalem is mountainous. So Yeshurun is literally “the straight one”, the one of integrity. But the connection is because Yisrael and Yeshurun both have the three letters: Yud, shin, resh. Keith: Yes. Nehemia: Now, here’s where it gets a little complicated. Yisrael is Yud, Sin, Resh; and this is Yud, Shin, Resh. Now, you say, wait a minute, they’re not from the same root. One is Sin, Resh, Resh, and the other is Yud, Shin, Resh. They’re linguistically not connected. That’s 100% true. Meaning if you go and you look at the grammar in a dictionary, if you’d even ask the ancient Israelite, “Are these from the same root?” They’d say, “No, of course not. One is ‘straight’ and one is ‘to struggle’, ‘to strive’.” However, they sound similar, and in fact, obviously, in certain dialects of Hebrew- I say obvious, but maybe it’s not to some people - the Shin and the Sin were both pronounced the same. For example, for the Ephraimites, they’re both pronounced the same. Keith: Sibboleth and shibboleth. Nehemia: Right. So an Ephraimite would have said not Yeshurun but Yesurun. But the other Israelites were able to distinguish those sounds. But they were similar enough that there could be this play on words. A play on words in Hebrew, a nickname like this, is often not based on what we would expect from a modern linguistic derivation, a modern grammatical explanation, but it's based on something that sounds similar. An example I love is Jabez. In Chronicles, it says he’s called Jabez because he was born in sorrow. If you look in the Hebrew, the word sorrow and the word jabez, yabet, one is Ayin, Bet, Tzadik, and the other is Ayin, Tzadik, Bet. The letters are actually switched, what’s going on? It sounded close enough for somebody to give that name explanation. Here it’s close enough that this could be a nickname. Now, here’s where it’s really interesting to me. We’ve got this situation with the name Yud, Hey, Vav, Hey, where people say, “We don’t know the vowels. The vowels have been lost.” Then they come up with explanations of what the name is. Is it Yahweh? Or is it Yahooha? Often it’s going to begin “Ya” because we know in hallelujah that’s the poetic - say, “poetic”. Keith: Poetic. Nehemia: It’s the poetic form of the Father's name. “Ya” as hallelujah. Or “Keis Ya,” we had the first time in Exodus, it’s the throne of “Ya.” The poetic form is not disputed. Meaning those who know Hebrew, I should say, have never disputed the poetic form because it was never forbidden to speak. It was only the full form Yud, Hey, Vav, Hey, which was forbidden. Now, imagine if all you had was the poetic form of the name and you came up with Yahweh, now, let’s apply that to Israel. Let’s say we didn’t know how to pronounce Yisrael. Let’s say there was a superstition in ancient Israel - and it didn’t happen - but imagine if there was a superstition in ancient Israel where they said, “You cannot say the name Yisrael.” Keith: Right. Nehemia: “You must only call her Jacob.” So we come to the letters Yud, Sin, Resh, Alef, Lamed, and we say, “We don’t know how to say it. Let’s figure out how to say Yisrael, Yud, Sin, Resh, Alef, Lamed.” You had no idea, except you knew that the nickname was Yeshurun. So then you would maybe, perhaps, very logically say, “Oh, Yeshurun, and we’ve got these three letters. It should be Yeshurul.” That’s not a joke. Yeshurul, as opposed to… Keith: Israel Nehemia: Israel, right. Thank the Creator of the universe that the name Israel was not forgotten in the pronunciation of Hebrew and there’s no dispute about it. But if there were, we might end up with people who - we’d have the Yeshurul people, and we’d have the Yasherah people, and we’d have Yoshero people. Keith: Somebody would come along and say, “After looking in the ancient Hebrew manuscripts, I actually found some examples where we see Yisrael.” And they’d say, “No. We can’t because of the vowels…” Nehemia: “No! We can’t look at the Hebrew manuscripts. We’ve got to go listen to the Samaritans. We’ve got to go listen to the Greeks, and these various others… the Church Fathers, the Christians.” I say let’s look at the Hebrew manuscripts, and thankfully we know how to say Israel and Yeshurun, and they don’t actually sound all that similar to us, maybe in English, but in Hebrew, they’re very, very similar. Keith: That’s a great example. Nehemia: We can’t just look at the poetic form of a name. We’ve got to see how it was actually preserved in the Hebrew manuscripts. Keith: Exactly. Nehemia: Yes. There it is. Keith: So here we go, 44:3 says, “For I shall pour out water on the thirsty and streams on the dry ground.” Then, I don’t know why this kind of stuff just gets me. Then the next phrase says, “For I shall pour out My spirit on your offspring and My blessing on your descendants.” Nehemia: Now, I thought we were going to talk about the Tanakh. Why are you reading to me from the New Testament? Keith: No, I’m reading right out of Isaiah Chapter 44 verse 3. Nehemia: God’s going to pour out His Spirit upon Israel? Upon the Jews? Keith: He says, “I will pour out My Spirit on your offspring and My blessing.” Nehemia: Come on with that! Keith: You know what’s interesting, it says, “I will pour out water and streams; I will pour out spirit and blessing.” When I read that, I see what’s happening. It’s like the blessing is the spirit, you know, the stream… Nehemia: Well, He’s going to pour it out like water. That’s the point. Keith: Exactly. Like water, absolutely. “This one will say, ‘I am Yehovah’s; and that one will call on the name of Yaakov; and another will write on his hand,” and this is another example. Nehemia: Yes. Keith: I don’t know if I’m going to let you talk about this or not, you’ll go on and on, but it says, “This one will say, ‘I am the LORD’s’, and that one will call on the name of Jacob, and another will write on his hand, ‘Belonging to Yehovah,’ and will name Israel’s name with honor.” I mean... Nehemia: Whoa! Whoa! Whoa! Keith: No, no. Nehemia: No, “And he will be called by the name Israel.” Keith: “He will be called by the name Israel.” Nehemia: Right. So wait a minute, who are these people that are going to be called by the name Israel? Presumably it’s people who aren’t part of Israel who are going to come and they’re going to say, “Look, I’ve got to be part of this. I’ve got to be called Israel. I need to embrace the God of Israel.” Why would they write on their hand Yehovah? We don’t know for sure, but one explanation is that in ancient times a slave, they would write on his hand the name of his master, so if he ran away they’d grab his hand and they say, “Oh, you belong to Josiah, we’re going to take you back to Josiah.” Keith: You can go to Isaiah 49:16 on that. Nehemia: Yes, Isaiah 49:16. Here, in any event, the person is writing on his hand, “Belonging to Yehovah,” to indicate look, I’m Yehovah’s, I’m His, I’m his servant. Yes, okay, Isaiah 49:16, you want to read it? Keith: No, go ahead. Nehemia: You want me to read it? Keith: Yes. Nehemia: So in the JPS, “See, I have engraved you on the palms of My hands, your walls are ever before Me.” I think this is actually a passage we’re going to get to in one of the sections. So let’s save that discussion. That’s a really interesting discussion. Keith: Yes. Nehemia: But yes, we have this other idea. Anyway, I think that’s a separate thing. But when I was in Kathmandu, and you know this story, go to my website nehemiaswall.com, there’s a study there on shaving. But actually, it also talks about tattoos. One of the things I did in Kathmandu is they have this thing where they do these temporary tattoos called henna. Keith: I would have argued with you if you’d done it. Nehemia: So I went and I had them write in henna, temporary tattoo, it lasts about two or three weeks. I had them write, “Belonging,” Well, they weren’t able to write “Belonging,” but they wrote “Yehovah,” based on this verse. It was such a blessing. I was walking around Kathmandu for a few days and people would stop me all over and they’d say, “Wow, we see the henna tattoos all the time, and they’re usually dedicated to the various gods, but we’ve never seen anything like this Hebrew writing,” well, they didn’t know it was Hebrew writing. They said, “What is this?” I said, “This is the name of my God.” And they said, “Well, who is your God?” I say, “He is the God of Israel, the God of the Jews. Yehovah the Creator of heaven and earth.” I’ve told this story before and it really excites me. I had these two people who said, “Can you bless us in the name of this god?” I recited over them the priestly blessing with Yehovah inscribed upon my arms. That was pretty cool. Keith: Wow. Amazing. Nehemia: But it’s a great discussion over there, nehemiaswall.com, about the whole issue of tattoos, and go read it. Keith: Okay. Awesome. Now, do you want to take a moment to talk about ministry? Do you want to...? Nehemia: Sure. Well, you go ahead. You go first. Keith: No, go ahead. You’re right in, you’re in the flow of it. Nehemia: I mean this is what it’s about for me, it’s empowering people. My ministry is Makor Hebrew Foundation. Makor is the Hebrew word for “source,” and it’s about, for me, getting to the source. It also means the source of a spring of water because it’s the source of water. Here Yehovah talks about how He’s going to pour out His spirit like water. I want to encourage people and empower people to, when you feel that spirit, don’t do what I did for all those years, which was I’d feel that spirit and I’d be like, “No, we can’t deal with that. That’s not part of my heritage. That’s not part of my tradition. That’s those other people who don’t know any better, who don’t have the knowledge.” So for me, it’s not just about information, it is empowering people with information, but also giving you the information so that when you feel that spirit, that you’re not going to shut the door in God’s face, that you’re open to embracing that spirit... Keith: So there’s that aspect of the ministry. Nehemia: Yes, absolutely. That’s the key part of the ministry. There is information and there is inspiration. What I’ve learned from you is when you take information and you take inspiration then you become open to revelation. Keith: Amen. Nehemia: That’s what the ministry is about for me, Makor Hebrew Foundation, nehemiaswall.com. This is what I want to do. I don’t want people to come to me and say, “Nehemia, you are the great teacher, teach us. Teach us what we should…” No, I’m not the rabbi. In fact, I’ll have people write to me all the time, “Rabbi Gordon.” I say, “I’m sorry, my father passed away, he won’t be able to get this message. But if you’ve something you want to say to me, I’m not a rabbi.” I am simply someone who can… I’ve been blessed with information and had the opportunity to read ancient Hebrew texts and to understand ancient Hebrew culture. I want to empower people with that information so that they can do it themselves. I love the image, and I keep going back to it. My name is Nehemia and I’m named after the guy who lived thousands of years ago who built the wall. It’s interesting, he didn’t actually build the wall. He stood up there and he set up a situation so that the people could build the wall themselves. He set it up so that he had the trumpeters to warn the people, but the people actually did it themselves. They had the building implement in one hand, and the weapon of defense in the other hand, and if the enemy came to attack, they’d sound the shofar and the people could defend themselves. So it gave them both this foundation, but also a defense. That’s what I want to do, empower people with information so they can build their faith on a solid foundation and build that wall, but also defend their faith, defend the word of Yehovah. Keith: Amen. You know it’s so interesting to me that we’re here, and actually, this date as we mentioned is that the 21st, I believe the 21st of March, which has a number of things going on, not only the Aviv, also I don’t know if you know it or not, but it’s possible that you’ll be stuck here on the 22nd, because it’s possible that when the sun turns dark that could be the end. It’s all over. Nehemia: Oh, so there’s an eclipse on the day… Keith: No, there’s an eclipse... Nehemia: So the day they’re reading this section in synagogues around the world, there’s an eclipse. Keith: Yes. This is my thing. Nehemia: That’s a special eclipse, right? Keith: I want to talk about it. It’s my turn to talk about it, Nehemia! Let me talk about it! Nehemia: It’s the beginning of the end times. Keith: So here we are. We’re here, actually, we??

In this episode of Hebrew Voices, The Masked Shiite Muslim, I learn why the two major sects of Islam view each other as distortions of the true faith, how the relationship between Jews, Israel, and Islam is more nuanced than is often portrayed, and whether or not Mohammed was a conquering warlord who married a 9-year-old girl. I look forward to reading your comments! Podcast Version: https://audio.nehemiaswall.com/Hebrew-Voices/Hebrew-Voices-The-Masked-Shiite-Muslim.mp3 Download Podcast SUPPORT NEHEMIA'S RESEARCH AND TEACHINGS! Makor Hebrew Foundation is a 501c3 tax-deductible not for profit organization. Subscribe to "Nehemia's Wall" on your favorite podcasts app! iTunes | Android | Spotify | Google Play | Stitcher | TuneIn Share this Teaching on Social Media Related Posts: City of Rockets A Non-Zionist Ultra-Orthodox Jew Zionist Jew Speaks to a Salafi Muslim The Last Bastion of Free Speech Torah and Prophet Pearls Hebrew Gospel Pearls Hebrew Voices Episodes Support Team Studies Yehovah Research The post Hebrew Voices #126 – The Masked Shiite Muslim appeared first on Nehemia's Wall.

In this episode of Prophet Pearls, Vayakhel-Pekudei (1 Kings 7:40-8:21), Nehemia Gordon and Keith Johnson examine the major concepts in this week’s double-header portion - primarily what the Tanakh calls the “House of Yehovah” and how history, tradition, and cultures have clouded the world’s view of the place where God chose to put His name forever. The parallel text in Chronicles is examined and we learn David’s role in the outfitting of the Temple. The two spellings of Hiram’s name provide a lesson on Hebrew vowel sounds and how they alter over time and continents. Gordon tracks the word of the week “araphel” (ayin-reish-pei-lamed) through the Tanakh to discover that Moses went to it—and that Yehovah was in it, on it, and surrounded by it. In closing, Johnson is part of the fulfillment of Solomon’s 3,000-year-old prayer—as he, a gentile, grabs the sleeve of the Jew, recognizing the unsearchable greatness of he who sits upon the cherubs of the ark, and prays in the name of Yehovah for revelation to better understand and live out his word. "There was nothing in the ark save the two tables of stone, which Moses put there at Horeb..." (1 Kings 8:9) Looking forward to reading your comments! https://audio.nehemiaswall.com/Prophet-Pearls/Prophet-Pearls-22-23-Vayakhel-Pekudei.mp3 Download Prophet Pearls Vayakhel Pekudei Transcript Prophet Pearls #22-23 - Vayakhel Pekudei (1 Kings 7:40-8:21) You are listening to Prophet Pearls with Nehemia Gordon and Keith Johnson. Thank you for supporting Nehemia Gordon's Makor Hebrew Foundation. Learn more at NehemiasWall.com. Keith: Welcome back to Prophet Pearls face-to-face, whatever it takes. This is Keith Johnson along with Nehemia Gordon at the safe house in Jerusalem, not far from the Knesset, not far from Netanyahu’s house. I don’t know what happened, Nehemia. We’re actually having to record this in advance, but Netanyahu was on his way to go and speak before the Congress of the United States. Purim took place last week. I don’t know all that happened, but I tell you, this is exciting to be in Jerusalem during these times. Would you agree? Nehemia: Amen. It really is. Exciting and a little scary. Keith: Yeah, it is. I should say that. Yeah, it is a little scary. But you know, when I think about something that we talked about last week, we talked about the name Israel. We didn’t talk about it in detail, but the phrase itself that was referred back to Jacob and being called Israel. There’s going to be contention with man and with God, and they’re going to prevail. So I’m believing that. You still with me on that? Nehemia: Amen. Keith: We’re actually going to be doing two sections. Nehemia, you've got to explain this. This kind of stuff just really frustrates me. I mean you have two sections, so can you explain what’s happening? Nehemia: All right. So first of all, I just want to remind people this whole idea of reading a section, even of the Torah every week in the synagogue, that’s tradition. There are actually different traditions. There’s one tradition which is the more common one today, which reads the Torah over the course of a year, and the less common one, which may actually be more ancient, is that they read the Torah over the course of three-and-a-half years, which meant twice every seven years, meaning twice every Sabbatical cycle they read the Torah. For the purposes of this program, we decided we’re going to discuss the portions based on this annual cycle, just because it’s very widespread. The idea was that somebody somewhere wants to go and look at some study, and this is very common in the Jewish world. They’ll say, “Okay, this week’s Torah portion is Vayakhel, let me go see what people are saying on Vayakhel,” and they’ll go to various websites and various resources. Keith: And it’ll include our stuff. Our stuff will be shown. Nehemia: We’ve had people who have no connection to anything that we’re doing whatsoever, they’re Jews, and just out of the blue they Google it and they say, “Oh, Vayakhel, what? A Methodist and a Karaite doing this? What? I want to hear what these guys have to say.” Some of them like it and some of them don’t. But basically, where it gets a little confusing is you would think if there are 52 weeks in the year, then we should have 52 portions, right? Except in the Hebrew year there aren’t 52 weeks, and so there are actually 54 portions. The reason there are 54 portions is that in the Hebrew leap year you don’t have an extra day like you do in the English leap year, in the Gregorian leap year, in the Hebrew leap year you have an extra month, and the extra month is four to five extra sections. So what they did is they broke up the Torah into 54 sections and they had some sections that are combined in some years and broken apart in other years, based on whether it’s a leap year or not and based on other factors. For example, if there’s a holiday that falls on Shabbat, then you read a special section for that holiday. Well, now you’ve just lost an opportunity to read a section from the regular Torah cycle. So then two sections would be combined and vice versa. It gets complicated that way. But basically, there are 54 sections, and this year, for example, in synagogues around the world on March 14th, 2015, they will be reading a double... there’ll be a doubleheader. Keith: Is it doubleheader? Nehemia: Don't you have that? Like in football, where you have a doubleheader? Keith: That’s baseball. Nehemia: Oh, is it baseball? That’s right. So in baseball you buy one ticket and you go to the ballpark, you go to Comiskey Park or Wrigley Field, and you see two baseball games. So what’s gonna happen on March 14th, 2015 is there’ll be a doubleheader. People come to the synagogue on Shabbat, synagogues around the world, and they’ll hear two Torah portions one after the other - Vayakhel and Pekudei. They’re actually combined this year. Hence the Prophet portions are also combined in this instance. So the first portion, or really the Prophet portions for this week is 1 Kings chapter 7, verse 40 through chapter 8 verse 21. Now in some years, it’s 7 verses 40 to 50 the first week and the second week, with the second portion, it’s 1 Kings 7:51 through 8:21. Meaning they take it and they just break it apart into two. We’re going to do it as one; first of all, because we’re here for a short time in Jerusalem, and secondly, because on March 14th they’re doing it together. Keith: That means folks, this is a doubleheader for you. You’re going to get a twofer. So let’s get right into it, Nehemia. We’re going to be talking in 1 Kings chapter 7 verse 40, and this is one of those situations where… I say this a lot, it’s sometimes hard if you don’t get context, but of course, the way the game works, and I use the word carefully. The game is that there are certain sections that were selected where they didn’t give context before or after. So we’re going to have people to check for themselves… Nehemia: Well just to be clear, we didn’t choose these sections. What we’re doing is reading the traditional Prophet portions, and the Prophet portions are even more complicated. So in the Torah portion, you can read it over three-and-a-half years or one year, but you’re reading the same section, just over a different period of time. Or you’re reading the same... Ultimately you’re reading the five books of Moses for the Torah portions. For the Prophet portions actually, even for those who read it over the course of a year, there are different traditions between Ashkenazim and Sephardim and Italian Jews and Yemenite Jews. There are different Jewish communities that have different sections that they read. We just decided to use the most common one, which is the Ashkenazic one. They’re the largest group in the Jewish world. But there are other sections that people read… Keith: And when I don’t like it, we’ll use the Methodist tradition. So here we go. Nehemia: Is there a Methodist tradition? Reading the Prophet portions… Keith: No, I will say this, folks, if you haven’t gotten a chance to listen to the Original Torah Pearls… Nehemia, you did something really cool last week. You talked about the motorcycle video we did. If you didn’t see that, folks, you didn’t miss it, it's still available. But we did the Torah portions - now three years ago? Was it three? Nehemia: I don’t know. I think it was four years ago. Keith: Yeah, we did that. And that still stands to this day, people are listening to those Torah portions, it was just phenomenal. Sometimes we spent as long as two-plus hours recording. We try not to do that, obviously, with the Prophet portions. But I think it’s really cool that that work stands. What we did with the Torah Pearls, it stands. It’s there, people can listen to it, and I actually encourage people to go to Nehemiaswall.com, BFAInternational.com, and listen to the Prophet portions, the Prophet Pearls, but also to go ahead and listen to the Torah portion. Nehemia: And the Original Torah Pearls. Keith: Yeah. You say the Original Torah Pearls as if... Nehemia: Well there’s something out there which people are calling Torah Pearls, which really isn’t according to the same spirit of what we did three or four years ago. It’s with a different cast, can I tell you what I call it? Can I tell the people? I call them the Imposter Pearls. But there’s the real, authentic Original Torah Pearls that you can go to BFAinternational.com and Nehemiaswall.com to listen to. Keith: Okay, awesome. Well, I’ll tell you something, sometimes I think that you’re so politically correct, and then other times you just leave the farm completely. Nehemia: Look, I’ll tell you what I told the actual people who are doing that program. I said to them, “I think it’s great that you’re discussing the word of God. If only all of God’s people would discuss His word. But don’t pretend to be something you’re not. Don’t call it by the name that represents something completely different. Choose a different name and call it that, but don’t try to misrepresent yourself as Keith and Nehemia. Keith: Okay. Well, I actually appreciate that, you know, one of the things I do… Nehemia: I think it’s great. Everyone should talk about God’s word. Keith: I think everyone really should, and I think what’s really, really been powerful, Nehemia, is that we really have gotten a chance to reach so many different people. I’m just shocked. I’m still surprised at the diversity of people that listen to not only Torah Pearls, the Original Torah Pearls program, but that are now listening to Prophet Pearls, and I have to get through a shout out to our sponsors. We call them the Maccabees. They’re actually sponsoring both of these sections, and so we appreciate them - Maccabees, those are out there and we really appreciate what you’ve done. Again, we want to encourage people to leave comments on both sites, BFAinternational.com and NehemiasWall.com. Because people are interacting with this information, and really your perspective can be a real blessing to others. So please make sure that you leave some comments. Let’s get right into this, Nehemia. We’re going to try not to read verse by verse. We talked about this, now that we’re here face-to-face, let’s have some fun. There are going to be some times where we can, obviously, go verse by verse, but other times we were talking about concept, and in this section - this is kind of exciting to me - we started out with verse 40, it says, “Now Harem” and of course, when I hear that word, I simply want to know who that person is. You can do the research on who he is and what he has in his skill set. But it says, “He made the basins in the shovels and the bowls. So Harem finished doing all the work which he had performed for King Solomon.” And then it says… Nehemia: Whoa, whoa, whoa. Are you done with the verse? Keith: No! No, no, no. “For King Solomon in the House of the LORD.” “Beit Yehovah” is what I see here in the Hebrew, but this has to do with the houses, we talked about it before - the place where He caused His name to dwell. This place is a physical place. It’s a place that we actually can walk to if we had the time and we weren’t recording all day. Nehemia: Could we walk there? Let’s talk about that. Keith: No, no, I want to talk about that. I want to get there, Nehemia. Folks, I’ve got to tell you something, he’s got me in this safe house. There’s nothing in the refrigerator. He locked the door on me. I’ve been here for about 20 hours or so. I’ve got to get out, Nehemia. I’ve got to get to the place where He caused His name to dwell. I mean, we can go over there… Nehemia: Is it safe? Are you allowed to, legally? Keith: Absolutely. You can go there. Okay. Yeah. In fact, there’s more we can talk about when we get into this. But we’re talking about this place, the house, the Beit Yehovah. Can you do me a favor? Just traditionally, what would be the traditional Jewish title for that place? Nehemia: Beit HaMikdash. The House of the Sanctuary. Keith: The House of the Sanctuary. Nehemia: In fact, that was such a common phrase, that I’ll be honest with you - there was a time in my life, early on I studied Scripture in a certain way. We would read a verse, read the rabbinical commentary, read a verse, read the rabbinical commentary. I was told never read verses of Scripture without the running rabbinical commentary. At a certain point in my life, I said, “It’s time to cast off the crutches and walk, tear off the training wheels and actually read it for myself without the commentary. See what it actually says.” One of the things that really shocked me is that the phrase Beit HaMikdash does not appear in the Tanakh. I couldn’t believe it, because it was a word that I heard from really, probably, when I was first able to speak. It was a word that… of course, in my pronunciation back in America, we call it the Beis HaMikdash or the Beit HaMikdash in the Israeli pronunciation. It’s funny, there was a time when I didn’t even know how to translate it into English. If I had met you when I was 10 years old and I said, “Beis HaMikdash,” and you said, “What’s that? What is that in English?” I’d say, “Well, what do you mean? That is English. That’s what it’s called, there is no word for it in English.” Now I know it was called the Holy Temple in Jerusalem, because I’ve read that in books. But it’s really a part of everyday speech in the Jewish experience - the Beit HaMikdash or Beis HaMikdash - and the phrase actually doesn’t appear in the Scripture, in the Tanakh, and it appears as Beit Yehovah or Beit Elohim or the House of Yehovah or the House of God. Keith: Well, that’s what we’re talking about, and I have to tell you that it is central. Well, it’s central in a number of ways. It says here, “Which he performed for King Solomon in the house or the Beit Yehovah,” is what it says here. “The two pillars and the two bowls of the capitals, which were on the top of the two pillars and the two networks to cover the two bowls of capitals, which were on top of the pillars.” It goes on to talk about these pillars and then talk about the specific aspects of this, and I will say there’s sort of this idea, Nehemia, that you can get the big picture and then you can get the real detail. There are some things in this section, that I have to be honest, are going to be hard for me not to just want to spend all the time on, but it’s a big section, so we’re going to try and get the big picture. But one thing I want to make sure that people understand is that this house is significant not only in Jewish tradition. It’s significant in biblical understanding of what this is, this house, the Beit Yehovah. It’s… how can I say it? It’s a central concept. It’s a central theme throughout what Yehovah was doing, not only for then, today, but also for tomorrow. Nehemia: Just to clarify, by the way, in 2 Chronicles 36:17, it has the phrase “Beit Mikdasham”, the House of Their Temple, referring to the Temple in Jerusalem, and that actually is Beit HaMikdash, it’s a variant of it. Meaning, the actual phrase Beit HaMikdash doesn’t appear, Beit Mikdasham does. It’s interesting, because do you know what Jerusalem is called by the Arabs today? Keith: What’s it called? Nehemia: The Arabic name for Jerusalem is Al-Quds. If you look in the early Arab sources from 1,300 years ago or so, they don’t call it Al-Quds, they call it Beit El-Mukadis, which is just the Arabic “Beit HaMikdash.” Isn’t that interesting? Keith: Do you know what terrorist group uses that word? The phrase Beit… Nehemia: No, I actually don’t. Keith: You do. They’re in the Sinai. Nehemia: I don’t know. Remind me. There’s a terrorist group who calls themselves Beit HaMikdash? Keith: No, they use a variant of that actual phrase. Nehemia: Oh, the Al-Quds Brigade? Keith: No, no, of the Mikdash. Nehemia: I didn’t know that. Or maybe I did. I don’t remember. There’s so many terrorist groups, who can keep track of them all? But the point is that the irony here is that you’ll have Muslims who will come along and say, “Oh no, the Jews never had a temple in Jerusalem.” Keith: Exactly. Nehemia: Hey guys, what’s the Arabic name for Jerusalem in the early sources? Beit El-Mukadish, what do you think that is? It’s Beit HaMikdash, like, what are you talking about? Keith: That’s why I wish I had off the top of my head the name of this group that’s in the Sinai, but they use this variant in the Arabic word for Maqdis. Nehemia: Really? Should we Google it? Keith: Look for that, the terrorist group that’s in the Sinai that uses the word Maqdis. While you’re doing that, can I read? It says here... Nehemia: Oh, Ansar Bait al-Maqdis. Keith: Al-Maqdis, do you see what I’m saying? Nehemia: My Arabic isn't good enough to say if Al-Maqdis is the same as al-Mukadis. Keith: It is! What are you talking about? I checked in the background. Nehemia: Okay, beseder, I’m not an expert, but yeah, okay. Keith: Neither am I. Nehemia: So yes, it says here on Wikipedia, for whatever that’s worth, it says Ansar Bait al-Maqdis, or Ansar Jerusalem. Keith: Exactly. Nehemia: Meaning, they actually say Bait al-Maqdis is Jerusalem. Keith: What’s so funny, I use that word carefully when I say it’s funny, is that last year I was in Israel with a madrik, a tour guide, Nehemia: A who? Oh, a madrikh. Keith: Anyway, so he was a tour guide, and we were talking, we were walking down in the old city of Jerusalem, and he was talking about that he’s used the word Beit HaMikdash. And there’s an Arab man who walked out and came out and yelled at him and he said, “You will not call it that! You will call it...” Nehemia: Haram Al-Sharif. That’s the Temple Mount. Keith: Haram Al-Sharif, the Temple Mount, and they had an argument back and forth, and this guy was the guy that actually told me this - he said to the Arab guys, he says, “Tell me the name of what it was called before you ever called it that?” The guy had no clue. Nehemia: He really didn’t know? Keith: He didn’t know, and he ran him down the list. And it was from a historical standpoint, and what I appreciated about it is that there’s this tension, Nehemia, when you’re on the Temple Mount, that I actually did an interview with one of the head honchos of the Al-Aqsa mosque. He actually met with the Pope. I saw him. He was walking across with him. I walked up to the guy, I got my camera on and I said, “Weren’t you the guy who met with the Pope?” And he stuck his chest out and then his security... no, listen, look, I told I’m filming, listen. He stuck his chest out and the guy says, “Absolutely.” He’s one of the… what do they call… the big sheikh, who… there were two of them that met with the Pope. Nehemia: I don’t really know anything about this. Keith: What do you mean, you don’t know? Nehemia: I don’t know what you’re talking about. Keith: So I go up to the guy… Nehemia: Was this Pope Benedict? Keith: Yeah, Pope Benedict went up there, and they went to that... But the whole point is to remove the history of this place, this is going to make significance. So there are different organizations, news organizations, even the Catholic Church decided not to call it the Temple Mount. Nehemia: Really? Keith: Oh, heck no. They used the phrase the Noble Sanctuary, is what they used to discuss it by. But anyway, so I go up to him and I say, “Aren’t you one of the head honchos for the Temple Mount?” And the guy goes nuts. The security guy says “It is not called the Temple Mount! You will take that off the tape! It is called Al-Aqsa!” I’ve got this on film, and I’m like, “Oh, I'm so sorry. It’s not called...?” Nehemia: So you’re playing the guy. Keith: Sorry, I’m not playing him. I didn’t realize that I pushed him... Nehemia: You didn’t know it was sensitive, okay. Keith: I didn’t know how much of a button I pushed, because I was trying to get in to engage him about what that place was. But again, back to the history of this place and the significance of it historically, grammatically, all of that, and how there’s an attempt to remove that history present day when go on the Temple Mount. I mean to the point that they won't even mention… Nehemia: Oh, to the point where when they dig a trench like to put in pipes and things like that, and they actually come across remnants of the Temple, that’s happened, and it’s been photographed. They will, within minutes, come in with drills and drill down those remaining stones into powder. They do this all the time. There have been a few instances where it’s been caught on film, or at least in photographs, where they actually found some of the foundations of the Temple on the Temple Mount and they came as quickly as they could to destroy it. They want nothing to be left. Can I make a…? Keith: Yeah, absolutely. Nehemia: So I think it’s interesting. First of all, there’s a parallel for this passage that people could look at, which is 2 Chronicles chapter 5, and it’s always good when you’re reading Kings to look at the parallels in Chronicles. We don’t have time to go into all of that, but here within verse 40, that we’re reading, you read the name Hiram twice. What’s the Hebrew for Hiram? Do you know…? Keith: Let’s see here, Chirom? Nehemia: And the other time? Keith: The second time it is… let me find here… let’s see… Nehemia: So one time it’s Chirom and the other it’s Chiram. One time it’s “O” and the other it’s “A.” Chiram and Chirom. It’s clearly referring to the same person. So why that variant? And it’s a very interesting variant. I mean, there are two forms of the guy’s name. Keith: Within two or three words. Nehemia: Or within about five words. But imagine if sometimes I called you Keith and sometimes I called you, Koth. Whatever. Look, I go through that - my name is Nehemia and sometimes people call me Nehemiah and Neheemia, and all right, it is what it is. So Chiram or Chirom he has that name, but it’s interesting that one time it’s an “O” and one time it’s an “A”. Now here I’ve got to tell people that Hebrew has gone through some changes over time, and some of these really aren’t disputed. One of the ones that’s not disputed is that the sound for “ah”, well there’s two different vowels for “ah”. One’s called a kamatz and one’s called a patach. The patach hasn’t really changed as far as we know. It always was like the “A” in father, always was “ah”. But the kamatz in some dialects of Hebrew today retains its original sound, which in some instances is an “O”. Originally, they say it was something like an “aw”. It was somewhere between an “Ah” and “O”, which is “aw”, and that’s really interesting. This has to do with kamatz katan and kamatz gadol... I’m not going to get to that, people don’t know what that is. But just for those who know Hebrew of the Hebrew Word “rosh”, which is head, but then the plural of “rosh” is “rashei”. So where’d you get that “Ah” if it’s “O”? That’s because the kamatz is actually related to the cholam, to the “O”. What all that means is the original Hebrew, as far as we know, this sound kamatz probably was something like “aw”, like the A in “saw” or “awe”, like “awe of God”. So what that means is the name Yehovah in the original language was probably something like “Yehovaw”. It may have been an “aw” sound. In one dialect of Hebrew, it may have even been Yohovah. I talked about in the past about the vowels in the Aleppo Codex and the Leningrad Codex. Those tell us what the vowels are, they don’t necessarily tell us how to pronounce those vowels. In other words, based on the very same vowels, I found in some dialects of Hebrew Yehovah would be pronounced Yehovaw. That’s 100% legitimate. It’s like the difference between American English and British English. Look, there are people who speak English differently than the way we speak it, and the people around them understand them perfectly and even today we can understand them. I think that’s interesting. So that’s actually what’s going on here in the verse that we have here Chiram and Chirom. They’re so close they’re interchangeable. Keith: Here’s what’s so funny, Nehemia, the way you just got through saying it. So like when I’m reading it, both times in English it’s Hiram. Okay. So this one which says here, Hiram, okay. There’s the Resh right there. When you pronounce this, you didn’t pronounce it with any, you pronounced it with the Resh. Nehemia: No, we’re down here. Chirom… Keith: Chirom or Chiram. Okay. Well, that’s good. Okay. That’s why. Okay, let’s move on. Nehemia: Yeah, that’s pretty cool. All right. Keith: Okay. So it says here, “The two pillars…” Okay, we’re talking about that in the verse. Verse 42, “The four hundred pomegranates for the two networks, the two rows of pomegranates for each network to cover the two bowls.” Nehemia: Yada, yada, yada, yada, yada. Can we skip ahead? We can’t read every verse. Please skip to verse 47. Keith: You want to go to 47? Nehemia: Yes. Keith: Okay, go ahead. “Solomon left all the utensils because they were too many. The weight of the bronze could not be ascertained.” Nehemia: Right. That’s interesting that yours has bronze. The Hebrew word is “nechoshet”, which all things being equal, I would translate as copper, but you’re probably right, because bronze is simply... I think it’s 90% copper, 10% tin, and they added in that tin to make the copper harder, otherwise copper is very flexible, but basically, it’s copper with some tin added in. I think that’s interesting. It’s giving us the amount of gold there is and et cetera, and these different materials, but there’s so much bronze or copper that we can’t even measure it. I think that’s interesting. It says “Lo nechkar”, “it was not investigated” is literally what it says. It reminds me of the description of Yehovah. It says “Ein kheker l'niflato”, “there is no investigation of His greatness.” Where is that verse? There are a few verses actually. So the one I was thinking of is Psalm 145, verse 3, which says “Gadol Yehovah umehulal me’od” “Great is Yehovah and very much praised” “veligdolato ein kheker” “and to His greatness there is no investigation.” Let’s see what you have in your English. I don’t know how it’s translated. It says, “and great to be praised and His greatness is unsearchable.” Really the image there is, look, we could try to make a tally of how great He is, but it’s beyond human computation. So what they’re saying here is there’s so much copper, we can’t even keep track of it all. That’s the point of Yehovah; it’s beyond our ability to even comprehend and to calculate how amazing He is. How totally awesome and wonderful and great and powerful. Keith: So as we were going through this, you were just talking about these first 10 verses. So when you’re reading through these verses, you said, “yada, yada, yada.” Well, why do you say yada, yada, yada? I'm just a little confused here. What do you mean, yada, yada, yada? Is this not the Word of God, Nehemia? Nehemia: No, it is the Word of God, absolutely. But look, we’ve got 33 verses, we can’t spend… if we spend 10 minutes on each one of the 33 verses, that’s a five-hour program. We’re not going to be able to do it. Keith: I’m only going to get 15 minutes of those 5 hours. Nehemia: Amen. Praise God. Keith: Listen, I do want to bring something up in these first 10 verses, and this is really something that I’ve thought about. Oftentimes we hear Solomon - Solomon was the one who built this amazing place. But then there’s a simple little statement that I want to stop at, and I want you to check something on your computer, if you could. In verse 51, can I go to 51? It says, “Thus all the work…” Nehemia: That’s passed my yada, yada, yada, though… Keith: Is that passed your yada, yada, yada? Nehemia: The yada, yada, yada was this list of “They made this and they made that and there were 10 of these and there was one of those…” Keith: And when does your yada yada stop? Nehemia: I just jumped to verse 47. So now we got through verse 47. There are a lot of interesting things – they’re casting things and the thickness of the ground. We can talk about every one of these things for... I could talk about them for hours. Keith: Well I do think it’s really interesting, because we’re getting into the details of the lampstands, five on the right and five on the left in front of the inner sanctuary. Nehemia: That’s this week’s image, that we had made by Lane Forest, a young artist. Keith: Absolutely. Folks need to make sure they see that. That’s pretty amazing. So she reads it and then she draws it. Is that the idea? Nehemia: Yes. Keith: Wow. How old is she? Nehemia: You got me on the spot here. She’s young. Keith: Okay. Well anyway, it was talking about the cups and the snuffers of the bowls and the spoons, the fires prongs, the pure gold, etc. Then it says, “And the hinges, both of the doors of the inner house, the most holy place.” Now when you hear that, “the most holy place.” Nehemia: In English, it’s what we call Holy of Holies. Keith: The Holy of Holies. Okay. And for the doors of the house that is, it says “the nave of gold.” “Thus, all the work of King Solomon.” And here’s the verse I really wanted to talk about for a second. So oftentimes when I read about this, you hear about Solomon building the Temple, Solomon building the Temple, Solomon building the Temple. And there’s this little phrase that says, “And Solomon brought in the things dedicated by his father David.” Nehemia: What verse are you in? Keith: 51. Yeah, the silver and the gold and the utensils. One of the things that I wanted to have us check was this idea of David being given a pattern for what the Temple was. I mean, it’s something that... Nehemia: It wasn’t just the pattern. The issue with David is he wanted to build the Temple - and I think we wanted to get to this one yet we didn’t have time. Basically, David had spilled blood, he killed, even though he killed justifiably in many instances. But because he had spilled all this blood, God said, “Look, you're not going to be the one to build it.” This went back to this idea of making the altar on hewn stones so that metal doesn’t touch it. And then Solomon built his temple - this is when we were getting cut off I think, so we didn’t get to it- it says, “There was no stone, no sword,” it says “that was heard in the sanctuary.” The idea is that the Temple is a temple of peace and it can’t be involved in death and destruction. Our faith of Israel is a faith of life, not a faith of death. We don’t glorify death the way some faiths do who say that they love death more than we love life. It’s true - we do. We love life. When David wanted to build the temple, God said, “It’s not going to be you. Maybe it can be your son, but you've spilled too much blood to build My temple.” So God allowed David to then prepare some of the things for the temple, and that’s what David ended up doing, he prepared some of the rituals and some of the services, and a lot of this was talked about in more details in Chronicles and Kings. It’s just kind of glossed over like, “Yeah, that happened,” or in Samuel and Kings. But yes, so he prepared a bunch of the stuff for the temple. What do you have there, Keith? Keith: Actually, when I was looking at 1 Chronicles 28, if you can do me a favor, would you look at this real quick? 1 Chronicles, I’m going a little bit of a struggle because my suitcase didn’t make it, folks, and in my suitcase I have a folder and I have my other Bible and I have some other things including my charger for my computer. So I’m limited on what I can do. Nehemia is going to have to help me here. Nehemia: What do you have? Keith: 1 Chronicles 28:11 through 12 and 18 and 19. What is this thing that David actually did see? Nehemia: Yes, that’s a good question. So we got here, I’ll read you the JPS. It says, “David gave his son Solomon the plan of the porch in its houses, its storerooms and its upper chambers and inner chambers, and of the place of the ark cover and the plan of all that he had by the spirit. Of the courts of the house of Yehovah.” So can we talk about that? They had by the spirit. Wait, that’s only from the New Testament, where people get things by the spirit, right? Can Jews also have the spirit? Keith: I guess they can. Nehemia: “He had by the spirit of the courts of the house of Yehovah and all its surrounding chambers of the treasuries in the house of God and the treasures of the holy things,” et cetera. You want me to keep reading? Keith: The idea is that David was getting this pattern. He was getting this by the spirit. So again, what I wanted to do, for me, that was important, was to step back and say, “Okay, so initially, as you mentioned, David wasn’t given the ability to actually build it. But he did do preparation.” Nehemia: He prepared the materials, he prepared some of the rituals. Keith: It was a pattern. It was given by the spirit, which I don’t know, as we go later, it becomes significant because Solomon isn’t just pulling this out of the air. Also, though he asked for wisdom, he also had his father’s... the work that was given to him by the spirit that was all then transferred to Solomon. So it’s not often something that you hear about when you’re hearing about the Temple being built. All right, so can we move on now? Nehemia: Sure. By the way, starting in the next chapter, which is chapter 8, verse 1, now we’re going to jump for the parallel to 2 Chronicles chapter 6 verses 1 through 11. Keith: Got you. So can you do this? When you’re looking at the parallel, you said you’ve got the 2 Chronicles 6? Nehemia: I mean, that… I could open that up if you want. But can we first look at the actual verse? Keith: Yes, absolutely. Nehemia: And then we can talk about the parallels? Keith: Yes. Yes. Okay. “Then Solomon assembled the elders of Israel and all the heads of the tribes, the leaders of the father’s households with the sons of Israel to King Solomon in Jerusalem to bring up the Ark of the Covenant of Yehovah from the City of David, which is Zion.” They’re going to bring up the Ark of the Covenant of Yehovah. Now, I know this is one of these deals, Nehemia, where you’re going to have to just keep me on track, because it’s hard for me to hear that phrase and not go historically about the significance of the Ark and its travels and getting where it is and where David had it and now this is going to be the thing that it’s sitting down here ready, the house is now ready. And what is the house ready for? The house is ready for the Ark. And why the Ark, Nehemia? What is this? It’s just a box. Why the Ark? The house for the Ark? Nehemia: I don’t understand the question. Keith: You do understand the question. What’s the significance of it being the Ark? I mean, what is that? So it’s a box, Nehemia. Nehemia: It’s not just a box. I mean, the Ark is… Basically the image we have in the Tanakh is the Ark is sort of like the chariot of Yehovah, meaning it has the cherubs and His voice is heard from between the cherubs and He sits on it. He’s called “Yoshev HaKruvim”, “He who sits upon the cherubs”, which is the cherubs that covered the Ark. So there’s this image of the Ark as the chariot or even the footstool of Yehovah, and that’s actually an interesting verse in Jeremiah. I don’t think that’s one of our portions, is it? So let’s bring it. So there’s this image about the Ark being the footstool of Yehovah, and then Jeremiah, I think goes on to that, and I’ve got to find that verse. But, let’s see. Let’s pretend I know where this is. Keith: While you’re looking, I’m setting you up. So the reason I was talking about this was... Nehemia: It’s Jeremiah 3:16. “‘And when you increase and are fertile in the land in those days,’ declares Yehovah, ‘men shall no longer speak of the Ark of the Covenant of Yehovah, nor shall it come to mind. They shall not mention it or miss it or make another.’” A lot of people stop there and they say, “Oh, the Ark won’t be important anymore.” But then the next verse is really important. It says, “At that time they shall call Jerusalem the throne of Yehovah.” Okay, let’s see what that is in Hebrew. “Kiseh Yehovah” “the chair, the throne of Yehovah”, so not footstool, sorry. Then it says, “Venikvu eileha kol hagoyim”, “and all the nations will be gathered to it” “leshem Yehovah Yerushalayim”, “to the name of Yehovah to Jerusalem”, “and they will no longer go after the rebelliousness of their evil heart.” So I love this because this is one of these prophecies that’s a prophecy about the nations coming and embracing the God of Israel. It’s connected here to the Ark. There are people to this day who are saying… You know, we even had the movie, Indiana Jones, and he’s looking for the Ark of the Covenant because we got to have that Ark of the Covenant. No, we’re told there’ll be a time in the future, in this end time scenario, that we won’t be looking for the Ark because the Ark will be this chariot, this chair, this throne. It won’t be the Ark anymore. All of Jerusalem will be the Ark. Do you know how amazing this is, that we are sitting here in Jerusalem and in the city and the very place where He placed His name forever, and we’re talking about this at a time when the Ark is no longer really remembered by people and it’s no longer about the Ark? Then we’re starting to see the beginning of this prophecy being fulfilled. You sitting here next to me is a partial fulfillment of this prophecy, all the nations gathering to the name of Yehovah, to Jerusalem. What’s the significance of that? We’ve got the Ark, which is called by the name, you’ve got a whole teaching about that in the Open Door series… Keith: 2 Samuel chapter 6 verse 2. 2 Samuel chapter 6 verse 2. Go ahead. Nehemia: Where is that? It’s in 1 Samuel…? Keith: 2 Samuel chapter 6 verse 2. Nehemia: So in 2 Samuel 6:2, the Ark which is called by the name, and here we have it saying we won’t even need an ark. They’re going to come to the name of Yehovah in Jerusalem because the city of Jerusalem will be called by the name. Keith: Amen. And I think that’s why when I say the significance of the Ark itself, the Ark being called by the name, of the house being built for the name. Yehovah calling the Ark. In other words, referring to Himself. Obviously, it is not Him, but the idea that it is His name, and what does it represent? His word of God inside, word of God outside. It’s like it isn’t something that we want to lose sight of the significance of. God’s word. Nehemia, other than the creation… when He created the entire world, give me something else that God created that’s in the earth. Something else other than Him creating the trees and the plants and animals. Give me something that God created. Nehemia: I don’t understand the question. Keith: Sure you do. Nehemia: He spent six days creating the universe. Keith: He created the entire universe. Anything else that he did after that? You know what else he did? He told Moses, “Listen, go out and put these two stones and I'm going to write on these two stones,” and then the second time Moses came back after he broke them, and He says, “And I'll write again.” And aren't those two stones, the stones that He put in that place… Nehemia: In the Ark. Keith: That place. It’s like God’s... Nehemia: What are the first two words of the Ten Commandments on the stones? “Anochi Yehovah”, “I am Yehovah.” Keith: Come on with that. Nehemia: Here I have to - and this is maybe a side thing, but look, we’re excited about it. We’re talking about the Temple and we’re talking about how Jerusalem, the place of the Temple, will still be important even though the Ark won't be there. Jerusalem will be called by the name. It reminds me, recently I did this teaching, my ministry Makor Hebrew Foundation, and I was talking about the Samaritans, and how in the time of the Second Temple period there was the whole issue of the Maccabee wars, and they were being persecuted along with the Jews. They realized, “Look, we’re not Jews, we’re foreigners. Why are we going to be persecuted just because we keep the Sabbath?” They wrote to Antiochus, who was the Greek king, the Seleucid Greek king. And they said, “We’ve got this temple over here in Mount Grizim in Schem, and it’s an anonymous temple. It’s a temple which doesn’t have a name.” If you don’t understand the Hebrew context and culture, that’d be like, “What do you mean, temple doesn’t have a name? What does that mean?” Well, because the Temple in Jerusalem was called “Beit Yehovah” “the House of Yehovah”. The Temple in Jerusalem had a name. The Temple in Jerusalem was the place which is described in Scripture as the place where Yehovah caused His name to dwell, where Yehovah put His name forever. These Samaritans are writing to Antiochus and saying, “We have a temple that doesn’t have a name, and here’s an idea. You can give it a name.” They suggest that that temple be named after Jupiter, which is the pagan deity, or Zeus in the Greek. To the Romans it was Jupiter, and that’s a whole different discussion. It gets really fascinating, because then later the people who say Yahveh or Yahweh, that traces back to a Samaritan source, where we’re told the Samaritans call upon God as Yahweh, and we find out in about 165 or 168 BCE they’re saying their temple is Annaneumon. It’s an anonymous temple, and they want to give it a name and the name they give it isn’t the name Yehovah, Yud-Hey-Vav-Hey, it’s the name of a pagan deity. But that’s a different discussion. Keith: Isn’t that something? Nehemia: Yes, pretty interesting stuff. But the name for this temple and for this place in the city, this is a central concept of central theme in the Hebrew Scriptures. Keith: Amen. And again, the idea that Yehovah says, “You have not built a house for Me,” speaking for Him, meaning for His representation of who He is. That ark becoming the thing that’s carrying His name, His word. Nehemia: And going back to the Temple - because that’s what this whole passage is about - the very fact that I grew up calling it Beit HaMikdash, the House of the Sanctuary, and it used to be called biblically Beit Yehovah - I mean, there’s something going on there. There’s an agenda to stamp out His name, even from the place where He put His name forever. It’s called the House of Yehovah! So we in the Jewish world have now called it the House of the Sanctuary, which is wonderful and beautiful, but we’re missing part of the picture. What we’ve done is we’ve deemphasized that name. Keith: Exactly. Nehemia: To the point where you’ll talk to the average Jew and you’ll talk about Yehovah's name, and they’ll say, “Well, why are you obsessed with this name? What does this name have to do with the Temple?” What do you mean what does it have to do with the Temple? He put His name there forever! Keith: Absolutely. Going on, it says that all these folks came, all these men, all the assemblers, the leaders, they came. 8:2, “They assembled before the king.” And then it says, and this is interesting, I want to throw this one to you. It says a different name of a month, it says “Eitanim”, which is the seventh month. So do you know… I know there are other examples where we get one name and then we also get the numerical? Nehemia: There are three. I should say there are three for this particular set of names, and then there’s a bunch for the Babylonian names. In other words, in Judaism, what I grew up with is we refer to the names of the months as Nissan, Iyar, Sivan, Tamuz. When you get to Tamuz you’re like, “Wait a minute, Tamuz is the name of a pagan deity,” and no one disputes. The rabbis say the names of these months came from Babylon. They came up from Babylon. Now, the pre-Babylonian names, some people will say are in these passages in Kings. Here we have the month of Eitanim. It says, “In the feast, which is the seventh month,” except Eitanim never appears in the Torah as the name of a month. When you look in the Torah, what you find is the names of the months are first month, second month, third month, et cetera. They’re numbered. They’re given sequential numbers and so the Torah name for this month is “Hachodesh Hashvi’ee”, the seventh month. So where does Eitanim come from? Eitanim is obviously a Hebrew word. Well, we’re dealing - and this is something other people have pointed out, there are three month names, Eitanim, Bool, and Ziv, and those each have numbers that correspond to them. Some people have said, “Oh, those are the original Hebrew names before Babylon.” No, not at all. Those are actually the Babylonian month names. I’m sorry, let me correct that. Not the Babylonian… those are actually the Canaanite month names. Why do I say that? Because they only appear in this passage where we’re dealing with the Canaanites. Hiram of Tyre was a Canaanite king in Sidon, sorry in Tyre. I’m thinking of Jezebel, whom we spoke about an hour ago, for those who don’t know that. So, Hiram of Tyre… I’m overtired. I’m over-tired. Keith: Impressive! Nehemia: Hiram was extremely tired. Oh my God. All right. So in this passage, and we’ve talked about this before, I think. In this passage, only in this passage, we have these three names - Eitanim, Ziv, and Bool, and we’re told, “which is the seventh month, which is the eighth month”. One of the explanations, which makes a lot of sense to me, is that whoever wrote this, the prophet or whoever, there were documents that described the different things that were made and the timeframe that it was done, and some of these documents were prepared by these Canaanite workmen. For example, we have another workman whose name is Hiram, himself, and he’s from the tribe of Naftali, but he grew up in Tyre. There’s some kind of whole thing there where he’s kind of in both cultures, and so he was able to work in both cultures. But if he came from that Tyrian culture, which was Canaanite, then he would have brought these names with him. So when they’re telling us this, and this holy prophetic history, they’re taking the source, which says, “In the month of Eitanim,” and then they explain for the Hebrew reader, for the Israelite reader, “which for you Israelites is the seventh month.” Because maybe the Israelites didn’t know what Eitanim was. Where it gets a little complicated, or a little hairy, is one of the months is called Bool, and Bool is the name of a Canaanite God. Keith: Oh, okay. Nehemia: Can we talk about in the feast “Bechag”? Keith: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Nehemia: So that’s pretty cool. So what’s the Chag in the seventh month? The feast? It’s Sukkot. It’s the feast of Sukkot. Here, it’s just called plain “the chag” without saying which chag. It’s just, we don’t even need to tell you which chag. It’d be like if I said to you, “We were having a barbecue during the holiday in July.” I don’t need to tell you it’s the 4th of July. What other holidays are in July? So it was a warm day in July and we were having a barbecue for the holiday. Well, but which holiday? Obviously, it’s the 4th of July. So here the feast is in the seventh month, and remember in Hebrew, and we hear the word chag, it’s not just a feast. There’s an implication there of pilgrimage feasts. There’s chag as a pilgrimage feast, and that’s significant because in the pilgrimage feasts you make a pilgrimage to the Temple, and now for the first time, they’re doing the pilgrimage, not to the Tabernacle, not just to the Ark in a tent, but to the actual Temple, the House of Yehovah. Keith: It’s something, three phrases there, at the feast one, in the month of Eitanim, and in the seventh month. So there’s no question. Nehemia: Is that what yours says, “In the seventh month”? Keith: It says, “which is the seventh month.” Nehemia: Oh, “which is.” Okay. Keith: All right. “Then all the elders of Israel came and the priest took up the Ark. They brought up the Ark of Yehovah and the Tent of Meeting and all the holy utensils.” Now I think it’s interesting that it says they brought up the Ark and the Tent of Meeting. So, what do they do at the Tent of Meeting? Nehemia: That’s a good question. That’s a very good question. Keith: In other words, okay, so you’re going to bring up the tent. Where’s that in there? I don’t see that anywhere. Nehemia: So I can tell you what tradition says, which is that they buried it under the Temple. Keith: Yeah? Okay. Nehemia: They hid it under the Temple, and some people will tell you, “To this very day, it’s hidden there under the Temple.” I don’t know, but we don’t know that for sure. It’s interesting though, like, wait a minute, back up here. According to one version of the story, when Shiloh, after the battle of Afek and the Philistines are coming, and Eli, he’s the high priest, he falls back and breaks his neck, and then it’s like fade to black. Then, later on, we hear about how God abandoned the tabernacle of Shiloh, and it kind of implies – that’s in Jeremiah - that it was destroyed, that the tabernacle was destroyed. Then all of a sudden, wait a minute, there’s a tabernacle here, and wait... So it wasn’t destroyed, or maybe it was rebuilt? I don’t know. There’s something there that... Keith: There’s a couple of times where you hear that showing up where this tent was, whether it was a different place or it was the same tent. Nehemia: By the way, does yours say Tabernacle or does it say Tent of Meeting? Keith: “In the tent.” Nehemia: Well, it literally says, “Vaya’alu et aron Yehovah,” “and they brought up the Ark of Yehovah,” “ve’et ohel mo’ed,” “and the Tent of Meeting,” “ve’et kol klei hakodesh asher ba’ohel,” “and all the holy vessels which were in the tent,” and the priests of the Levites brought them up. So yes, they brought them up. Why did they bring them up? Why don’t they bring them down into the valley? There’s this new theory out there. Oh boy, really hot. The true temple was right above the Gichon spring, down in the city of David. Well, wait a minute. So why would they then bring it up? For those who don’t know the geography, we’ve got this kind of, we have the peak… Peak is a confusing word because you’ll think of like, the Rockies. Keith: Are you going to really describe it? Because you’re going to make me want to go over there today. Nehemia: We have the top of the mountain, and then it slopes down, and then down along the whole slope is the City of David. But at the top of that hill - hill is a better word - is what we call the Temple Mount, and some people have said, “Oh no, what you’re calling the Temple Mount, that was a Roman fortress, and the real temple was up above the Gichon spring, which is in the City of David.” I asked myself, “Wait a minute, why do we repeatedly hear about bringing it up, raising it up, bringing it from the City of David, bringing it from Zion, up?” Well, no, wait a minute. If it’s bringing it from Zion, then you’d bring it down if it’s where they say, but based on the geography that most people accept, the Temple Mount is geographically above… I mean you walk up that, and if you’re out of shape, you’re going to be panting. You’re walking up. Keith: So they brought it up. And again 8:5 is interesting. It says, “They were before the Ark, sacrificing so many sheep and oxen that they could not be counted or numbered,” however many there were. I mean, tens of thousands. Who knows? It doesn’t say. “They brought the Ark of the Covenant of the LORD to its place.” And what’s its place in English? It says here, into the inner sanctuary, I believe the word is “dvir”. Nehemia: “Dvir” that’s the word we talked about related to the word “devorah”, meaning Bee. It’s the inner sanctuary. Should that be the Word of the Week? Dvir? Keith: I like it. Nehemia: Or do you have another word? I think that’s been the Word of the Week. Keith: We’ve used that before? Nehemia: Yes. I’m going to save it for something else. We have a lot. Keith: Okay. Awesome. Yeah, “to the most holy place under the wings of the cherubim. They spread their wings over the place, the Ark and the cherubim and made a covering over the ark and its poles from above. But the poles were so long.” Now, this is a phrase I want to ask, it’s a different interpretation, but “the poles were so long.” Nehemia: What verse are you in? Keith: Verse 8, “but the poles were so long that the ends of the poles could be seen from the holy place before the inner sanctuary, but they could not be seen outside. They are there to this day.” I like that phrase, “they are there to this day.” Nehemia: “Ad hayom hazeh”, “until this very day.” Keith: Yeah. I mean, when this was being written, can you imagine though? I mean, that phrase just brings me back to the actual book being written. In other words, they’re writing about it, and they’re saying, and they’re there to this day. Nehemia: Well, that’s really significant. One of the things that really, in Hebrew University, when I studied, that we talked about in scholarship is, we'd say, we’re not just going to look at the book, we’re going to look at the sources of the book as well. Sometimes they went too far and they made up sources. But here we clearly can see the sources of the book. Today we have a single book in Hebrew called the book of Kings. Now in English, there’s 1 Kings and 2 Kings, but in Hebrew, it’s a single book, which means that it was originally a single scroll, but even in the printed Bible it’s one book. But what we’re getting here, a glimpse of, in verse 8, is a source, and in that source, because the final book ends after the destruction of the Temple in the time of King Jeconiah, Yehoyachin, when he’s raised up, I don’t remember, it was in… or something like that, of Jeconiah. He’s raised out of prison in Babylon and it’s like this mini happy ending. The king is still a prisoner in Babylon, but he’s not doing that badly in prison. He’s like, really... And that’s the end of the book, which is amazing to me, because then we pop over to Chronicles and we’ve got the whole situation where it ends with the decree of Cyrus, where the Israelites were allowed to come back, and you get the clear image - there’s no question, I think, in anybody’s mind, that the book of Kings was obviously written before the decree of Cyrus, because if that had happened, it would’ve been mentioned. In other words, that’s the happy ending of the story. In Hollywood you always have the happy ending. The happy ending of the story of the book of Chronicles is, well, they’re called to come back by Cyrus, and allowed to come back out of exile, and in Kings, the author of Kings doesn’t know that happened yet, because it hasn’t happened yet. But anyway, we come here and we read, wait a minute, “until this very day”, but at the end of Kings, the Temple was destroyed. So it’s not until this very day when Kings was finalized, but it is to this very day for the source, and that’s really interesting. This may have even been the Canaanite source, that Canaanite source that described what the Temple looked like, which mentioned the month of Eitanim, and then the prophet comes along and says, “Okay, I’m going to take that source and tell you what's important and tell you the spiritual message of it.” And I think the spiritual message here is in verse 9. Keith: Yes. Well, verse 9, I’ve always thought about this verse when I read it, and I always think there’s confusion. And the reason I say there’s confusion is I’m like, “Wait, there’s a different part where I heard something.” So let me read the verse. First of all, in English. “Then there was nothing in the Ark except the two tablets of stone, which Moses put there at Horeb, where the LORD made a covenant with the sons of Israel when they came on land.” Stop right there! What do you mean? What happened to the mana? Was the mana not in the Ark, or was beside the Ark? Nehemia: It wasn’t in the Ark. It clearly says. So there are two verses, or two passages. One is Exodus 16:32 to 34, and that tells us that the mana was before Yehovah, and the other is Numbers 17:25, which tells us that Aaron's rod was before the testimony. Well, what’s the testimony? We have this full phrase, which is the Ark of the Testimony of Yehovah. Why is it called that? Because Moses actually heard the voice of Yehovah coming from between the cherubs, and so it’s called the testimony, because Yehovah is testifying to him. So we’ve got these two things that are in the presence of Yehovah, or in the presence of the Ark of Yehovah. So the mana being before Yehovah is understood, I think rightfully so, that it’s before the Ark, when the Ark is later made, or maybe it was even made at that time. So, yes, and your confusion comes from the book of Hebrews, is that right? Keith: Well, no, my confusion is not only that I was in the desert with you, Nehemia. Nehemia: Oh yes, that’s right. Keith: We were in the desert and we went to Solomon’s copper mine... Nehemia: I’ll post that photo, if I remember, on the page, we have a photo of it. Keith: Thank you, that’d be awesome. So we were in the desert and we were at Solomon’s copper mine, which, by the way, we actually went into those places and saw the… just amazing. He could just pull up the picture. Nehemia: I’m looking right here at the photo that I took when I was with you. Keith: And we’re down there at Solomon’s copper mines for a couple of other reasons, but one of the things... Nehemia: A place called Timna. Keith: Yeah, Timna. We did go, there is a model of the Tabernacle. And so we went in there, and I was very thankful that you were willing to go with me. There’s a tour guide, and they tend to talk about it from the perspective, correct me if I’m wrong, as if you’re reading the Book of Hebrews. Nehemia: Well, so it’s a very unusual thing because Timna is one of Israel’s national parks, but in the middle of the national park, there’s a separate place that you pay a separate entry fee to, and it’s run by Christian missionaries. That’s extremely unusual in Israel, that the State of Israel would give a platform for Christian missionaries. I don’t know of any other example of that anywhere in Israel, and the Christian missionary has set up this model of the Ark and they actually ask you a question when they’re going to give you the tour. They say, “Are you Jews or Christians?” And if you say you’re a Jew, they don’t, and I’ve done this actually, they don’t say a word about the New Testament or Jesus. That’s because they don’t want to… in Israel it is very sensitive missionizing to Jews. But if you say, “Oh, you know, I’m Christian or I’m Messianic” or something, and I know, because I’m not Christian and Messianic, but I’ve been with Christians and Messianics and then I hear the other side of the story, and then they present it and they’ll say, “here is the red in the Tabernacle, and that represents the blood of Christ, and here is the blue in the Tabernacle, and that represents the royal cloak of Jesus.” So, everything becomes a symbol for Jesus. One of the things you see going into their model of the Tabernacle is they’ve got the Ark of the Covenant, obviously, it’s made of like styrofoam and gold paint, but whatever, it’s really nice. It’s got the two cherubim over it and you can slide it open and your face doesn’t melt like in the movie with Indiana Jones. You see inside are the two tablets of stone, and you see the rod of Aaron and the bowl of manna right there inside in the model of the Ark. You’ve got to wonder, do they even know this verse that we just read? Like we’ve just read a verse that says there was nothing in the Ark except the two tablets of stone, which Moses placed there at Horeb. They’re setting up a model and they’re basing it on Hebrews Chapter 9 verse 4, which says, “which had the golden censer and the Ark of the Covenant overlaid roundabout with gold wherein was the golden pot that had manna and Aaron’s rod that budded and the tables of the covenant, or the tablets of the covenant, the tablets of Stone.” So Hebrews 9:4, there are three things in there. At least according to the way it’s normally read. So yes, as opposed to the verse we just read in verse 9, which in 1 Kings 8:9, where there are only the two tablets of stone and not this rod of Aaron and the pot of manna, they have it “a golden pot…” Keith: I think what’s interesting about it though is that, when you’re reading earlier and you hear about the budding staff of Aaron and the manna, you can quote unquote assume, when he says “before” they could just assume that that means that it was in. Nehemia: So what you’re really saying - can we say it? If there’s someone who read the Torah and hadn’t read the Second Book of Kings, or sorry, the First Book of Kings, or the Book of Kings in Hebrew, they might think that the rod of Aaron and the bowl was in the Ark and not next to the Ark. Keith: My confession is that before getting anywhere else and just reading through the first time, when I hear about that I’m thinking, is there an inconsistency? And I’m thinking during the moving there was a moving problem. Maybe when during Josiah, where they had confusion. Nehemia: Seriously? Keith: I’m telling you somebody lost the... somebody went in there and took it. Who knows what happened? So that was what was confusing for me was, what happened to it? At some point, it was physically next to the Ark, and then at some point... Nehemia: They said, “Where do we put this? I’ll stick it in the box.” Is that what you’re trying to tell me? What? It could be. It’s possible that at the time that… And look, this is the type of explanation that apologists will come up with. They’ll say, “Yes, in the time that 1 Kings 8 was written, it was next to it, but later, when Josiah was renovating, they put it inside and Hebrews is referring to that later.” I’ve never heard that before, but it’s very clever. I would offer a different explanation. Look, some people will take this and they’ll say, “All right, we’re going to use this. So we’re going to hit the Christians over the head with this and say the Book of Hebrews is full of lies.” This is what they’ll do. I want to offer another explanation, and it’s possible that the Book of Hebrews is wrong - as a Karaite Jew… if you want to say that, that’s fine, that’s entirely an acceptable explanation. For me it’s not Scripture, but I tend to think that the author of Hebrews wasn’t a complete idiot, and if that’s the case, I just want to… One of the things I always emphasize in reading Tanakh is to look at the context, and I think that it’s disingenuous to then when you talk to - I’m speaking to the Jews here - to go talk to a Christian and then ignore the context when looking at his book because it

In this episode of The Original Torah Pearls, Pekudeim (Exodus 38:21-40:38), we discuss how should we respond to the replication and/ or fabrication of Tabernacle items in places of meeting today? What on earth is “carbuncle”? The Aaronic Priesthood is the everlasting priesthood, so what exactly is a Kohen and is there another “order” of priests? Where is the “Shekinah Glory” today? All this and more in this week’s Torah Pearls! I look forward to reading your comments! https://audio.nehemiaswall.com/Torah_Pearls/Torah-Pearls-23-Exodus-11-Pekudei.mp3 Download Podcast Transcript Torah Pearls #23 - Pekudei (Exodus 38:21-40:38)You are listening to The Original Torah Pearls with Nehemia Gordon, Keith Johnson, and Jono Vandor. Thank you for supporting Nehemia Gordon's Makor Hebrew Foundation. Learn more at NehemiasWall.com. You are listening to the original Torah Pearls with Nehemia Gordon, Keith Johnson, and Jono Vandor. Thank you for supporting Nehemia’s ministry, Makor Hebrew Foundation. Learn more at NehemiasWall.com. Jono: G'day to John in Texas, Tim in Ohio, Rob who commented saying “Jono, Keith, and Nehemia, I look forward to your broadcast each week. As we each seek out the truth among the lies of the world, it’s nice to have someone shine a bright light from the Torah to help us find our way.” Thank you, Rob for your encouragement and your comment. And wherever you may be around the world, it’s good to have your company. It is time for Pearls from the Torah Portion with Keith Johnson and Nehemia Gordon. G'day, guys. Nehemia: G'day, Shalom, shout-out to Wendy over on Facebook. Jono: Hey! Keith: I’d like to give a shout-out to Hope in Claremont, Florida, and Ralph in Colorado. Jono: Thanks guys for sharing the program. All right. Oh dear. G'day, Ralph. It’s good to know that Ralph’s enjoying the program. That’s good. Nehemia: Hey Ralph! I’m glad you’re listening. Jono: In Colorado there, I can just see him in front of the fire wrapped up in a blanket just as well. Okay. Today we are in - that’s a tick next to your name Keith: Ok. Listen, I…you know, Nehemia, he’s left the farm on me here this morning. But you know one of the things I love about this particular show, what we’re doing is that we have people who listen to us from all over and you know what? They’re not always people that are real happy about what we’re doing. So, I’d like to be able to invite those kinds of people to keep listening because I do think there’s something that we can learn, and they can learn. Jono: Amen. So true. Amen. And guess what? Guys, we’re right at the end of Exodus, right? This is the last portion of… Keith: Oh, boy. Oh, my Goodness. Jono: You know what, I’m gonna mispronounce this again. Is it Pekudi? Keith: Pekudei. Jono: Pekudei…why? There’s a ‘yud’ at the end. Why is it “a”? Isn’t it… Nehemia: Under the 'daled' there's a 'tzerei', which is like “a”, so Pikudei - oh hey. Jono: Pikudei. Okay. Exodus 38:21-40:38, and it begins like this. Here we go, are you ready? Keith: Certainly. Jono: It goes like this, “This is the inventory of the Tabernacle, the Tabernacle of the Testimony, which was counted according to the commandment of Moses, for the service of the Levites, by the hand of Ithamar, son of Aaron the priest.” That’s the way it starts, and it goes on. Now, again, we’re looking at a lot of repetition. We’re looking at a lot of detail. And there is, actually, a summary, and I’m wondering guys if we can sort of head over there. I was wondering if we can pick up from verse 42, in chapter 39, unless there’s anything specific that you’d like to pull out, because there is a summary… Nehemia: So, we’re jumping to the end? Jono: No, no, no! We’re not jumping to the end. Keith: Wait, I wanted to ask just a general question. You know, we spend time in different fellowships and churches and there seems to be more interest – at least I’ve noticed in the last couple of years - of even more interest of sort of trying to replicate what took place, you know, both by color and I mean…that’s just always been the case in some churches where people say, okay, this is the Temple, and then they attempt to have the colors of the curtains and these are all these sorts of things. When I see that, I kind of have two responses: One response is people attempting to recreate this idea of the Temple, and I think their idea is that as they replicate that and have it looks like, smells like, thinks like, feels like, and then somehow that the presence of God would be in there. I would be interested to know, Nehemia, what your thoughts are when you go into a place, whether it be a messianic congregation, or a church, or wherever there’s these things that attempt to replicate the Temple or the Tent of Meeting. What’s your thought when you see that, like, when you see that, what’s your response? Nehemia: That’s an interesting question; I’m not sure how to answer that. Keith: Well, honestly, I guess my… Nehemia: Well, I think part of it is like, I do find it a little odd that there’s this obsession with this narrow period of the history of Israel. Well, I guess you could argue that that obsession is here in the Torah. The fact that we’ve had so many chapters and pages dealing with this Tabernacle indicates that this is something the Torah wants us to know about. At the same time, you know, there is this concept that we have in the Hebrew Bible that is talked about in Deuteronomy, throughout Deuteronomy, “In the place where Yehovah will cause His name to dwell, the place Yehovah will choose.” That wasn’t a single place at first; meaning, it was wherever the Tabernacle would stop. We have that description at the end of this Torah portion, at the end of Exodus, where we read that the cloud would descend upon it and then it would rise maybe the next day, or maybe a year later, and it would move and go to the next place. And that was the place Yehovah would choose. Now in the time of David and Solomon that became a fixed place that no longer was mobile. So, after that, Solomon built the first Temple, and then the second Temple was built, and Ezekiel describes the building of the third Temple. So, it seems to me a little bit strange that they’re focusing all this energy on reconstructing a Tabernacle that, the way I understand it, is never going to be rebuilt. What will be rebuilt, what will be built, will be the Temple. Ezekiel describes what that Temple will look like. So, it seems to me like, why did they go back, specifically to that period of history, and why aren’t they reconstructing Ezekiel’s Temple, for example? Ezekiel talks about how, in the future era, they will have a priest that will have sacrifices and will have the Temple. And I actually that’s what we're reading in this Torah Portion that the priesthood is forever; it’s not just a temporary thing and then goes away from the world, but it’s something that will be forever. That’s what Ezekiel is describing; what it will look like in the end. So, it’s not totally crazy because I’ve seen Jews do that, as well. Not so much in…here’s what I haven’t really seen, is, you’ll never go into a synagogue, that I know of, and see full-scale replicas of all the vestments and vessels of the Temple. You know, of the lamp and…you might see these things portrayed in art, but you won’t see it…where you will see that is, there’s like, museums where you’ll see that; there's the Temple Institute, which they usually do for the Temple. You won’t see the men’s group at the local synagogue decided to recreate The Ark of the Covenant. And maybe that’s a good thing that, you know, we should be emulating. I don’t know. Keith: Well, I wanted to bring this up; I wanted just to ask you also, Jono, just for you. You mentioned as we talked about the portion earlier that the things that you would do to try to recreate the sound, or you know, making people enter in, and regarding those kinds with music. I guess the issue I wanted to bring up is we have this description that, you know, we’ve done it two or three times. Now we’ve gone to and talked about, as Nehemia said, it’s obviously an important issue. It was specifically for that time. Is there ever a time to attempt to recreate something that happened, or that we see in this place where Yehovah says, “This is where I will meet you?” Because I know that there is an attempt to try to recreate it, and I am assuming that it’s for the purpose of having His presence. Or I’m just wondering if there’s even a connection. Jono: The only thing that’s going through my mind at the moment for me, Keith, and that is obviously Jeroboam’s attempt to recreate a place of meeting. Bethel and Dan and, in fact, he attempted to recreate a number of things as far as the religion was concerned, is that what you’re alluding to? Or… Keith: Well, I was hoping somebody was going to throw me that softball, because one of the things that I think that has really been a major stumbling block for people, that don’t have any clue about any of these things, is that there are people, and there are places, and there are situations, where they will take a portion of something that they will find in this…in the Tanach, and then say okay, now we have that, we have that here with us, now let’s recreate this, and as a result of recreating it, they go too far. I’ve seen this happen many, many times, and I don’t want to go into the whole issue of Jeroboam. But I just think…the thing that’s interesting to me as we’ve been reading this portion regarding the incense, and the burnt offering, and the basin for washing, and the materials that are used, is, this was a command that was given by Yehovah for them to create a place. For what purpose? The Tent of Meeting, the place where He was going to be able to come down and meet with them to deal with the people, as a spot where He’s there. And I think there’s something really powerful about that. My question becomes, and we’re going to talk about it later in the portion here, where can we recreate these types of things, and then when we do recreate these types of things, are they done in integrity? Or are they taking a portion of something, using it for our own purposes, and then is it not something that sort of recreates on man’s agenda, not unlike what Jeroboam did. So, you know, we’ve had some situations that have taken place, where people have taken different things, holy things, ideas, thoughts, etc. and then used them for their own purposes. And then it causes…it really gets quite messy. Jono: Yeah, that's an appropriate word. But let me bring it a little closer to home for Nehemia. I have read, with regard to Karaite synagogues, some very interesting, can I say, tradition? Can you explain some of that? Is there a uniformity to Karaite synagogues? I’ve read of Karaite synagogues that have a very high expectation; in fact, the same expectation of ritual cleanliness as you would read about for the Tabernacle, for example, for the Temple, for example… Nehemia: Well, that brings us into a whole issue, but there is a tradition that many Karaite Jews have, that when they enter their synagogues, they try to maintain a state of ritual cleanliness. At the same time, they’re very careful to make it clear that it’s not the Temple. So it actually isn’t the same level of ritual cleanliness because, for example, if you’ve ever touched a dead body in your life, there’s no way to become ritually clean from that, until the Messiah comes, or really, until the high priest is reestablished and brings us the red heifer. Interestingly, there is this verse in Malachi that talks about how God is going to purify the Levites. So, maybe he actually means there that that’s how that’s going to be solved, through some process that, I don’t know exactly what it is. For example, in Malachi, chapter 3, verse 3, it says, “He shall act like a smelter and purger of silver; and he shall purify the descendants of Levi and refine them like gold and silver, so they shall present offerings in righteousness…” And the next verse is one of my favorite verses because it’s telling us what it’s going to be like in the Kingdom when the Messiah is here, “…and the offerings of Judah and Jerusalem shall be pleasing to Yehovah, as in days of yore and in the years of old.” So, we’re going to have this reestablishment of the sacrifices, and it’s going to be preceded by this process where God’s messenger is going to purify the Levites. So presumably this includes the Kohanim, who were among the Levis as the priests. In any event, we could have a whole discussion about tradition, but that’s really tradition, that’s not scripture. And I’ve got to confess something here…we may need to edit this out afterward, but I need to confess that I actually don’t regularly attend synagogue anymore. The reason I don’t is that I find it dreadfully boring. A lot of it is because it's just layer and layer of tradition; that’s even within the Karaite tradition. So, it got to a point in my life where I said, "You know what? This isn’t…what is this? Did I leave one set of traditions to go and fall into another set of traditions?" And so maybe in some respect I’m a post-denominational Karaite Jew, if there’s such a thing. Jono: And actually, that's so relevant Nehemia, if I might say, to the Torah portion, particularly at the end, when we’re going to talk briefly about the Shekhinah and what it was like for them, as opposed to what we are sometimes subject to today. But we might return to that topic a little later. Keith, as far Messianic congregations are concerned that you have visited, where you see an attempt to recreate something that we’re looking at in this Torah portion, the last Torah portion; how do you get by that? Keith: Well, more than anything, I think the thing that I’m mostly concerned about is people have their certain traditions, and we’re going to be able to dance like the days of old, we’re going to dress the way we think they did it, we’re going to have the same colors, we’re going to have the script, whatever it is that they want to do, I just wish people would really focus on, if that’s what they’re trying to do, what’s behind it. You know, it’s like saying, "Okay, I’m going to look like this, but what this stands for I’m not going to particularly focus on," and I think it’s beautiful when I read these portions about how He wants this to be a certain way, and this to be a certain way, and this to be a certain way, it isn’t so that you can take a portion of that and say, look, we’re the authentic ones, this is what we do. It’s authentic to the Tent of Meeting, but we don’t really want to meet with God because, if we really meet with God, we’d have to understand that He’s going to speak His word and we really don’t want to speak His word because His word maybe isn’t practical. It isn't any longer applicable to us. And that’s the reason I kind of brought this up, that sometimes people go to great lengths to try to recreate a portion, but not the whole thing. The portion is, we look like it, but in terms of how we act or whether the word is still applicable, they don’t do that. So, I would hope that people would spend as much time trying to figure out what the purpose of this was, and that was to meet with Him, and in meeting with Him that’s going to mean – His agenda, His word, His way, etc. Now for Nehemia, who doesn’t presently meet in the synagogue, I think that that’s why I love it when we go to these other places and we get a chance to see what’s going on. And it’s a balance to me, because I really believe that we have an opportunity to assemble together as a people, and I think assembling together as a people is a chance to hear from God. So, I wish there was just more good old-fashioned reading of the word of God and hearing the word of God and interacting with it, versus all of the other things that sort of end up being the case. If you can go to a place for two hours and never hear the word of God really spoken and interacting with it, then that to me is, you know…I’m not saying that’s what happens in the Karaite synagogue, I’m saying I’ve been in churches. I will tell you guys… Nehemia: That’s something that really happens, yeah. Keith: Yeah. One thing that I just heard just yesterday, in the midst of some evaluation of this kind of thing, and someone said, “Look, you don’t come to the church to feed on the word of God. You come to the church just for the vision of the pastor.” And I’m like, where is that in the Bible? So, you know, it’s that kind of thing that really concerns me, because that same place would say, now we’re going to have the Levitical dancers, now we’re going to have the incense, we’ve got the anointing oil, we’ve got the…we're at the courtyard, and now we’re in the Holy of Holies. It’s just stuff that concerns me. But I just wanted to see what you all thought about that in terms of people trying to recreate this sort of thing. Nehemia: In one way I think there is some value in it, in that we read about these things and like, what on earth is it talking about here, you know? Jono: Sure. Nehemia: Like, until you actually see it it’s really difficult. That’s why Moses had to be shown it; he was not able to make this based just on the verbal description. And that specifically tells us, "like I showed you in the mountain,” and in that respect, maybe there is some value, to give like an artist’s rendition. But at the same time, it’s important to remember that we don’t actually know what these things looked like, many of them. We don’t even know what the "tachash" is, that was the badgers' skin, or whatever it was, porpoise skin. Right? Maybe a type of goat? So, we don’t even know what some materials are, let alone some of the diagrams and patterns are. Jono: Sure. Nehemia: But I think there is some value. Look, I don’t want to knock it, as long as… it has value in the sense that people are reading this and, “Okay, well what does this look like?” It’s something tangible that they can look at. Where it gets dangerous is when they say, okay, we’re here, we’ve got our Ark and now we’re going to treat it like the Ark in…was in the Tabernacle. And they start treating the entire experience like a Tabernacle between the synagogue and…we’ll leave the Christians out of it…there’s a thin line between synagogue and high place. Keith: Amen. I think you’re right, Nehemia, I think that’s a great – right up to the edge. Jono: Makes a point, makes a point. And so, in Torah portions past, we’ve basically been reading, Yehovah’s been saying to Moses, "This is what I want you to do, this is how I want you to do it." And we’ve been reading, just very recently, them actually doing that which Yehovah has said to do; they’re doing it now. We read in verse 32, of chapter 39, that the work is coming to an end, it’s being completed, and it says, “Thus all the work of the Tabernacle of the Tent of Meeting was finished; and the children of Israel did according to all that Yehovah had commanded Moses; so they did. And they brought the Tabernacle to Moses, the tent and all the furnishings: its clasps, its boards, its bars, its pillars, its sockets; the covering of ram skins dyed red, the covering of badger skins…” I've got in the New King James, “…and the veil of the covering; the Ark of the Testimony with its poles and its mercy seat…” we’ve covered that…“the table, all its utensils, and the showbread; the pure of gold lampstand, with its lamps, the lamps set in order, all its utensils, and the oil for the light; the gold altar, the anointing oil, the sweet incense, the screen for the Tabernacle door, the bronze altar, the grate of bronze, its poles and its utensils, the laver and its base, the hangings in the court, its pillars and its sockets, the screens for the court gate, its cords, its pegs, all the utensils for the service of the Tabernacle, for the Tent of Meeting, and the garments of ministry to minister in the Holy place, the holy garments for Aaron the Priest and his sons' garments to minister as Priest. According to all that Yehovah had commanded Moses, so the children of Israel did the work.” “Then, Moses…” now, this is interesting… Keith: Just a second, Can I slow you down before you get to 40? Jono: Yeah. Keith: Okay, so some years ago, when I used to have a process of memorization, and when I would say memorization, I was just fixed on having different verses memorized. I would just want these verses memorized. It was the idea that there was…an old pastor told me some years ago, like twenty years ago, he said, "You know, there’s nothing more powerful than to speak back the very words of God out of your heart." Now I think there’s a scripture in Psalm 119, “How does a young man keep his way pure? By living according to word. I’ve hidden your word in my heart that I might not sin against you.” Well, I had a pastor who had said to me, “Oh, Keith, I’ve got another whole section,” because I had felt like, oh, I’d memorized this and memorized this. And he said, "I’ve got a whole section of things that I want you to memorize." And in one of the verses that I’ll never forget that he gave me to memorize, which just didn’t fit my Methodists mindset, was this verse in 42 of chapter 39, "The Israelites had done all the work just as the Lord had commanded Moses.” And then the next verse was, “Moses inspected the work and saw that they had done it just as the Lord had commanded.” So, then it says, “Moses blessed them.” Now for some reason, you all, this was years ago; I’m talking about before I ever went to Israel. I was in the church, I’m doing my Sunday morning thing, and my mentor handed me this verse to memorize. And it stopped me; it slowed me down. And I thought to myself, so what does it look like for the people to do all of the work as the Lord commanded Moses, and what would that look like now? To do all of the work as the Lord commanded Moses, and then for a minute, you all, I’m just telling you, when I just read this I’m like, why are they giving such prominence to Moses? Why does Moses get to be the one that blessed them? What’s this whole Moses thing? This is me in my Sunday morning pre…you know, Israel experience, and this verse really bothered me. Now as I read it, I think, "This is a really powerful thing." Because this group of people, as he went up to the mountain the first time, this group of Israelites, they didn’t do what they were supposed to do. They were steeped in sin, the golden calf came out, and they were reveling and all this stuff. And over time, now in Exodus 39, this is a really powerful statement about these people, they did all of the work just as the Lord had commanded Moses. And then Moses inspected it, because it wasn’t good enough for them just to say, hey, it’s done and he says, okay, let’s move on. He went and he inspected it. So, when I hear this list of things, of they had this, and they had this, and they had this…it doesn’t bore me. It makes me think, wow, they did it exactly as God commanded Moses. Moses inspected it and saw they had done it. And so, then what did Moses do? He blessed them. Jono: He blessed them. Keith: I’m telling you guys when this verse was in my memory pack I didn’t understand it. But as I’m reading it now it’s really a powerful verse. And what if we had the same attitude today? Everything commanded in Moses, we do it. And isn’t there a blessing. Nehemia: And then we get the blessing. Is that how you do it to get the blessing? Wait, this is how I get the blessing? Keith: No, no, no. The point being this: if God commands it, we do it. Jono: Amen. Keith: If God commands it, we do it. If God commands it, we do it. And you know, we try to find every way we can not to do it. And I always say this, in closing. It’s not a matter of me doing what God commands, it’s a matter of me having the opportunity, the gift, of being able to enter in where I can, though I’m in exile, though I’m over here in the United States, and I can’t bring the offering, and I can’t do this. But what do I get to do? What do I…where do I get to be invited, into what Yehovah has commanded? It’s just a verse that really is pivotal for me because understanding it is one thing, doing it is something else. Jono: Amen. Nehemia: Hey? Keith: Arguing about it is one thing, and doing it is something else. Jono: And doing it is something else. Nehemia? Nehemia: Now can we talk about the carbuncle? Jono: There’s a carbuncle? Nehemia: The carbuncle; this is what I’ve been waiting ten chapters to talk about. Exodus 39, verse 10. Can you read it in your translation, Jono? Jono: Carbuncle…verse 10, it says… Keith: This is great stuff. Jono: "And they set in it four rows of stone. A row with sardius, topaz, emeralds was the first row, the second row,” and so on and so forth. Okay. Nehemia: So, the one they translated as emerald, in other translations some have emerald, some have beryl, some have carbuncle. I’m just going to use carbuncle because I like the way that word bounces. Here’s actually kind of an embarrassing thing, but important to know, is that we don’t know what all these stones exactly are. How interesting is that? You know, you have a list of twelve stones, and it requires a certain expertise to identify what these stones are. While thousands of years later, how do we really know what it is? Carbuncle happens to be a stone that can be blue, if I’m not mistaken. In fact, there’s a story of Sherlock Holmes about the blue carbuncle. Jono: Really? Nehemia: Yeah, the blue carbuncle. But then emerald's obviously green, and so one possibility is that blue and green are actually kind of close, so maybe it was a blueish-green. You know, like… Jono: Like an aqua sort of a shade. Nehemia: Yeah, an aqua-marine type of situation. And we don’t really know, that’s the bottom line. But why am I talking about carbuncle? Because Keith and I had a really interesting experience, and maybe I’ll let Keith tell the story. Do you want to open the story at least? Keith: Oh, no, I’ll add to what to you said. I think this really is interesting… Nehemia: Okay. So, we were engaged in, I guess you could say, a kind of disagreement with some folks who were saying that, "Look, you guys are pronouncing God’s name ‘Yehovah’ based on a Masoretic Text. But those Masoretes, they just pulled those vowels out of their…I guess I’m not allowed to say that word. Keith: Hey! Jono: Imagination. Nehemia: Out of their imagination. They just plucked them out of the air and randomly put in vowels and they just made them up. And so how can you trust the vowels of some person who wasn’t from the time of Ezekiel, and wasn’t from the time of Moses? You know they just put in those vowels, and the vowels weren’t actually even written down until a relatively late period, at least that's the common opinion of scholars. There are other opinions though, but let’s assume that’s the case. So, we went to this expert at the Hebrew University and we asked him about this, and we said, "Those people are saying that they just made the vowels up, that they’re just completely arbitrary, and specifically when it comes to The Aleppo Codex." We were actually dealing at the time with the story of David and Goliath, and there’s this great image within the story of David and Goliath where David picks up five smooth stones, and he uses one of them to slay Goliath. And we went to this professor, and Keith said to him…I’ll never forget it, it was amazing. He says to the professor, "We’re having this debate with these people who are saying that the Aleppo Codex is worthless and, you know, those vowels are just made up by those Jewish scribes…" Keith: Nehemia, before you drop the book. Listen, if he's going to tell the story, Jono we’ve got a few minutes. I’m going to let Nehemia tell that part of the story, but he has to set it up just a little bit better because one of the things that Nehemia and I have a consistent… Jono: Being diplomatic about. Keith: No, no, no we have a very consistent argument about, is that I always want to speak Hebrew and Nehemia doesn’t want to speak Hebrew because I’m not a very good Hebrew speaker. So, he takes me to this man, who clearly says, you know, and he says to us, he says, "I usually…I’ll speak English sometimes, but basically I like speaking Hebrew." Nehemia called him and said, “I’ve got a Methodist. I need to bring him to talk to you.” And the guy’s like, “I don’t want to talk to him. What do I…” and Nehemia’s like, “No, no, no, you’ve got to meet the Methodist. I’m going to bring him to talk to you.” He finally agrees to come and speak to us. So, we’re sitting down with the man and he’s speaking with Nehemia, back-and-forth in Hebrew, and then finally they decide, okay, we'll let the Methodist hear what we’re talking about. So, he says he’s going to switch into English. Now, Nehemia, tell them what I finally got to say to him in English, and you can continue the story. Nehemia: Okay, well, Keith says to him, "Professor, I need five smooth stones." And, you know, explains to him what the issue is, and the professor leans back in his chair and he sticks up a finger and he says, "Stone number one." (In heavy Israeli accent) Jono: Excellent. It was immediately… Keith: I mean, he was…Jono, I’m telling you the Holy Spirit…I don’t care what anybody says… Nehemia: Stone number one. Keith: We’re sitting there together and he’s talking Hebrew, and Nehemia, and I can hear a few words here and there and then he looks at me and leans back, "Stone number one." Jono: Excellent. It was on cue. Nehemia: One of the stones was the issue, and particularly when it came to the issue of the vowels, one of the stones was to point out how there are these words that appear throughout the Tanach, throughout the Hebrew Bible, preserved by those Jewish scribes, that are written one way in one section and a different way in a different section with no change in meaning. And the thinking is that, if the scribes were just making up the vowels, what they would’ve done is created uniformity. And what’s an example? He gave us the example of the carbuncle, which in Hebrew is the Hebrew word ‘bareket.’ Nehemia: Say bareket. Jono: Bareket? Keith: Bareket. Nehemia: Bareket. So bareket means carbuncle and appears twice: once in Exodus 28:17, and the other time in Exodus 39:10, both times in the context of the breastplate of judgement. Well, the word carbuncle appears a third time in the book of Ezekiel. And when you look in Ezekiel, it doesn’t say ‘bareket.’ What it says is, ‘barkat.’ Now, here’s the thing, every Jew and his cousin knew the book of Exodus because it was read every year in the synagogue. They read the book of Exodus week after week, just as we’re doing right now. So, they were very familiar with the book of Exodus, and to this day most Jews are more familiar with Exodus than they are with Ezekiel. And it was like that a thousand years ago, and two thousand years ago, and that’s just the way it is in the synagogue. Well, anyway, so if the scribe was trying to just make up the vowels, what he would’ve done is create uniformity, and you would find ‘bareket’ in Ezekiel. Why ‘bareket’ in Ezekiel and not ‘barkat’ in Exodus? Because what they would do, if they were making up is simple fight of vowels, the simplest thing to do is to bring what everybody is familiar with. Keith: Right. Nehemia: Now, this is such an interesting example to me for two reasons: first of all, the difference between ‘bareket’ and ‘barkat’ doesn’t change the meaning, it’s just a difference of pronunciation, and clearly, they knew that in Exodus it has to be pronounced twice ‘bareket’ and once in Ezekiel as ‘barkat.’ Well, they’re not just making up the vowels; this is obviously very great precision. There’s some kind of pronunciation tradition here. And it must be a very ancient pronunciation tradition because it preserves a difference in pronunciation between the time when Exodus was written and the time when Ezekiel was written, which is amazing. That’s a difference of something like a thousand years. And now, two thousand years later or, actually 2,500 years later, there are people who are now finally transcribing this with symbols and they remember that yes, in the time of Moses, it was read as ‘bareket’ but in the time of Ezekiel, when he professed these things, it was ‘barkat.’ I mean, that’s amazing, that level of precision. Now, this is a really interesting example, especially for me as a Jerusalemite, because we have a mayor of Jerusalem whose name is Nir Barkat. Barkat is his last name, and basically his name is Nir Carbuncle. And he spells his name and pronounces his name based on the way it’s pronounced…bear in mind, actually, the consonants are the exact same consonants ‘bareket’ and ‘barkat’. The difference is the vowels, which is a series of dots and dashes above and below the letters. The argument of these other people is that, "Well, the Masoretes, these Jewish scribes who preserved the Bible, just made up those dots and dashes in the vowels. So, we can ignore those vowels and just read the consonants any way we want to." And that’s what a lot of people will do. So, the mayor of Jerusalem pronounces his name Barkat, the way it’s pronounced in Ezekiel, according to this ancient pronunciation tradition. Most people in Jerusalem that I know will call him Bareket. And why would they call him Bareket? They’ll mispronounce his name. Well, why do they do that? Because they heard in the synagogue that it was ‘Bareket.’ They don’t know what it says in Ezekiel. Who knows Ezekiel, except for scholars? The average person is only familiar with Exodus. So, to this day there’s this dichotomy between ‘bareket’ and ‘barkat’ based on Exodus vs. Ezekiel. It’s not that they just made this up, they’re actually preserving this ancient pronunciation. Keith: Well, I think the reason and, again, people will probably…they might think, so? Why is that important? It really is important because, remembering this, and let me just speak to my friends who don’t even know this whole idea of the vowels and the constants. What Nehemia said is, the consonants are the same, so if you go to Israel to this day, you’ll read, and you’ll see consonants and you won’t have little vowel signs. But yet, when people look at those consonants, they’ll know within the context how it is supposed to be pronounced. Based on what? A pronunciation tradition. So here we have this professor who’s bringing this, and I think what’s so phenomenal about it is his, “Stone number one.” And what is the context of what he brings? He brings an issue of stones. I mean, the guy… Jono: That is brilliant. Keith: It’s brilliant, but again, what was so powerful about it for us, for Nehemia and for me, was here’s a man who doesn’t have a dog in the fight regarding whether he wants to agree with this group or that group. He’s simply looking at the text, understanding the text. He’s made The Aleppo Codex his life; he’s been dealing with it for all this time. He’s one of the world's foremost experts on it. And he brings an example to say, listen, we don’t mess around with the vowel points, as if to say, oh, we’ll just change it based on convenience. This is something that’s lasted for a long, long, long, long time. And that the scribes are attempting to help us for those of us that don’t have the tradition to say it the way the tradition would’ve said it. So that’s why the vowel points are so important. I mean, it’s not something you just throw out and say, oh, well, that was just added in a thousand A.D. No, this is something that has been going on for however long it’s been so. It really was a powerful example. Jono: No, I appreciate it. Carbuncle, there you go everyone: carbuncle. Remember that. Keith: Thank you, Nehemia, for hooking me up with the guy. I’ve got a meeting with him when I’ll be in Jerusalem by myself, you know, I’m going to meet with him by myself. Jono: Brilliant. We’ll look forward to that story. All right, so they’re finished, and now the next thing that we read in chapter 40 is the assembling of everything that they have made. "Then Yehovah spoke to Moses saying, 'On the first day of the month you shall set up the Tabernacle. The tent of meeting.'" There it is. Keith: Stop, stop, stop. So, you mean to say that he says, Yehovah said onto Moses, set up the Tabernacle whenever you want? No. Set up the Tabernacle on the first day of the first month. So, I guess that was September… Nehemia: That’s January 1st, no? Keith: Well if it’s September, it must be the Rabbinical tradition of the New Year. Oh, no I’m sorry, this says the first day of the first month. So, it must’ve been January first, right? So, January 1st is why we celebrate… Jono: At midnight. Keith: So why is this important, Nehemia and Jono? These are God’s times. I mean you get a time that He told us to set it up… Nehemia: Amen. Keith: And let me just say, what’s really interesting about this, as you’re listening to this right now, we’re in the process of…I believe, I’m not sure of the exact date, but what I love about one of Nehemia’s ministries is that every year, he goes out with a group of people to try to figure out when is the first day of the first month. And that’s a real powerful thing, so I just wanted to give a shout-out to my Karaite friend who searches for the aviv. So, we are able to know when the first day of the first month is and we celebrate the new moon, so it’s pretty powerful. Nehemia: The first day of the first month…what year is it? I mean, how many years after they left? Jono: Do we know? Is this one full year? I mean… Nehemia: Well, it couldn’t be the same year in which they brought the first Passover sacrifice when they left Egypt because that was on the 15th of the month. Jono: Sure. Nehemia: So, it had to be at least the second year. What’s interesting is Numbers, chapter nine, opens up, "And Yehovah spoke to Moses in the desert of Sinai in the second…" it says there in the second, "…year of them going out of Egypt in the first month." So, I think that’s kind of interesting that Numbers, chapter nine, is taking place in relation to Exodus. You’d think, well, it’s several books later, it’s got to be many years later, and…well, not necessarily. Keith: Hmmm. Jono: So, this would also…it would suggest, as well, wouldn’t it, that this is nine months after the golden calf event? Is that fair? Am I doing the math correctly? Nehemia: That sounds about right, yeah. Keith: That’s amazing. Nehemia: Now here’s another little interesting point, but we’ll save the other interesting point for when we get to Numbers. Keith: Excellent! Nehemia: It’s just something to point. Keith: Yes. Jono: So, they basically put it all together and then set everything up. But what happens is in verse 10, “You shall anoint the altar with burnt offering and all its utensils and consecrate the altar.” Now the altar must be holy. Again, Nehemia, just to fill us in; how do you consecrate the altar? Nehemia: Well, the word there in Hebrew is ‘mashachta’ from the word ‘mashach’ ‘mashiach.’ You purify the altar; you pour oil on it, the special anointing oil that he described. So, you could actually say that that altar was the Messiah. Jono: Sure. The altar is ‘mashiach’. Nehemia: I’m kind of joking, but it’s also true. Meaning… Jono: But it’s the word, right? I mean, that’s what it says. In fact, everything is that word, and you should take the anointing oil and there’s a whole lot of stuff that’s anointed here. And here we are at the altar, "And the altar shall be most holy, and you shall anoint the laver and its base and consecrate it. You shall bring Aaron and his sons to the door of the Tabernacle of Meeting and wash them with water. You shall put a holy garment on Aaron, and anoint him, and consecrate him; that he may minister to Me as priest. And you shall bring his sons and clothe them with tunics: And you shall anoint them as you anointed their father; that they may minister to Me as priests. For their anointing,” now I just want to highlight this, “shall surely be an everlasting priesthood throughout their generations." Keith, what do you have in your Nearly Inspired version? Keith: Well, it clearly said…it clearly says here, “Their anointing will be to a priesthood that will continue for all generations to come.” That’s what it says. Jono: It will continue. Okay. All right. So, this is not in question, right? This is what it says. Nehemia, what is it in the Hebrew, “everlasting priesthood”? Nehemia: So, it says, “kehunat owlam.” Kehuna or “kehunat” is from the word Kohen, and it means a priesthood. Jono: Okay. This is, actually, if I’m correct, I think this is the second time that the word ‘priesthood’ is used. The other one is in…the first time, I think, Exodus 29, verse 9, if I remember correctly. And here we are in 40 verse 15 and we have a priesthood. Can I just compare this, while we’re here, can I just jump out of the Torah portion for a second and go over to Psalm 110, verse 4…I guess it talks about…does it talk about another priesthood? Is that what we’re to understand? It says, “Yehovah has sworn, and will not relent, you are a priest forever according to the order of Melchizedek.” I mean it doesn’t say “according to the priesthood of Melchizedek.” But is that what…are these the same words? Keith: Oh, boy. Nehemia: No. It says, “at-tah kohen la-olam”, you are a Kohen, priest forever. “al dib-ra-ti malchi-se-deq” according to the divrah of Melchizedek. Now, what is the “divrah of Melchizedek”? There’s a couple of possibilities: One is “divrah” literally means the word of Melchizedek. But it could also mean, and this has to do with the word “davar,” which is a word that has many possible meanings; “davar” could be prophecy, “davar” can be the word of God, “davar” can be…actually it’s the same word as…essentially the same word as we have in the phrase “ten commandments” in Hebrew, it’s actually not ten commandments, it’s ten words or ten matters. Jono: Sure. Nehemia: So, ten issues according to the issue of Melchizedek, that’s another possibility. Jono: That’s…sure. Nehemia: So, yeah. Jono: Well, can I ask you this question? What is, while we’re here, what is the issue of Melchizedek, or what are the words of Melchizedek? Is there any…what do we know about him? Nehemia: So Malki Tzedek, or Melchizedek, first of all, his name means “my righteous king,” and he’s mentioned in the Tanach, in the Old Testament, he’s really only mentioned elsewhere in Genesis 14, where he has an encounter with Abraham when he’s coming back from chasing the four kings who had invaded Israel and gone on a raid, and then they were running away and they had taken Lot with them, Abraham’s nephew. Jono: Nephew. Yeah. Nehemia: So, Abraham went after them, chased them as far as Dan, and brought back the stuff. And on the way back of bringing back the stuff, he runs into two people, Melchizedek and the king of Sodom. Jono: And he says something, right? He actually does say it. Is it at all possible, I mean you say this is…the word is “devrah” or taken from the root word of “davar” word, isn’t it possible that it’s in reference to the words that he spoke, that Melchizedek spoke? Nehemia: That’s definitely a possible interpretation. Jono: So, can I read that verse? This is verse 19 of Genesis 14 where he says, "Blessed be Abram of God Most High, possessor of heaven and earth. And blessed be God Most High, who has delivered your enemies into your hand." Is there…I find this interesting because he says, he finishes with that, “He delivered your enemies into your hand.” And does it not sort of flow nicely in the context of Psalm 110 where we read it, it says, from the beginning, "Yehovah said to my Lord sit at my right hand until I make your enemies your footstool," he says. It goes on to say, "you’ll rule in the midst of your enemies." And it goes on to say that Yehovah will "execute kings in the day of his wrath." And he goes on right to the end about how he will become victorious over the enemies and execute judgment upon the enemies. The context is there, right? I mean that is certainly a way to understand Psalm 110, verse 4. But is there anything in that verse that suggests a priesthood of Melchizedek as this does in Exodus 40, verse 15? Nehemia: No, there isn’t the word priesthood of Melchizedek here, it says, "Yehovah swears and he will not repent,” or not change it, “you are a priest forever according to the manner of Melchizedek, or according to the word of Melchizedek." Jono: Okay. Nehemia: So, it doesn’t actually say priesthood. Jono: It doesn’t ever mention priesthood. Keith, any thoughts? Keith: Well I had thought we’d gotten out of that Genesis Exodus unscathed. You brought us back to Genesis with Melchizedek, and now here we’re talking about it again. Now, again, are you asking the question of whether or not the priesthood would continue; that there would be a connection all the way back, Jono? Or, are you asking something else? Jono: I guess what I’m saying is that the Torah is exceptionally clear that there is a priesthood, which is an everlasting priesthood… Keith: Right. Jono: …which will continue throughout the generations of Israel, there’s no doubt about that. We all agree, this is what the Torah says in black and white. We also, as Nehemia, mentioned earlier, it’s mentioned in Ezekiel we see that that priesthood is, again, functioning. We know that will be true, that it’s an everlasting priesthood throughout their generations. And I guess there has been a question in as far as Psalm 110, verse 4, is concerned, where, at least in my tradition, where I’ve come from and maybe you might be able to relate to this, as well, Keith, that the word “order” in verse 4, at least in the English definition, is to be understood as something synonymous with the suffix “hood” as in priesthood. What Nehemia has pointed out is that that word is “devrati,” which is from the root word “davar,” which means word and does not carry the same definition as the word that we see here in priesthood. Keith: What are you trying to do? Are you trying to take away my connection, my priesthood, what are you…what are you guys? Nehemia: I'm staying out of this. Jono: Nehemia's staying out of it. Nehemia: Actually, can I offer my interpretation? Jono: Please. Nehemia: For whatever that’s worth. So, this is an interesting passage here, Psalm 110, and, you know, reading this passage, what is it really talking about? What I think everyone can probably agree it’s talking about is there's some great victory being described here. Verse 5, “The Lord at thy right hand shall strike through kings in the day of his wrath.” Okay, so there’s some kind of a defeat of enemies here. Okay. So, what does that mean, “He shall judge among the heathen,” this is the King James, whatever that’s worth, “he shall fill the places with the dead bodies; he shall wound the heads over many countries.” All right, I'd say that’s roughly what it says, anyway. So, we have some kind of great defeat of the enemies and so, many people will interpret this as referring to…let’s assume for argument’s sake that that’s correct, well, so this is obviously talking about the Messiah reigning as a flesh and blood king here on earth. I guess because he’s defeating the kings, his enemies, so presumably actually like a king in a very physical sense. And now what kind of king do we have anywhere in the Tanach which is a priest? That really is for me the question. I don’t know about that Christological stuff. I don’t know anything about that, okay? And I don’t want to know about it is my way of saying I don’t want to deal with that. I’m coming at it purely from the Tanach, and what I ask…the question is, how can you have a king who’s a priest? And the reason I ask that is that, in the Tanach, the king and the priest are two completely different roles. They’re actually parallel roles, meaning you have the priest who’s anointed, and you have the king who’s anointed. You have the vision… Zachariah talked about this in a previous session, where there’s the Menorah and on two sides of the Menorah there’s the two sons of oil. Didn’t we talk about that? I think we did. Anyway, the two sons of oil, in my understanding, is it’s the priest; the high priest and the king, both of whom are anointed with oil, and they’re called the two sons of oil. And they stand on either side of Yehovah at His Temple. Okay. So, what is a king that’s also a priest? I mean that, it’s almost like, you know, like they're two opposite things, you know? So anyway, what is that? And when I look throughout the Tanach I find a really interesting verse…two verses that can help me answer it. One is that we have this figure of Melchizedek, in fact, Melki Tzedek in Genesis 14, who was a king, and we’re told he’s a “Kohen leh'el el-yon kone shamaym va-aaretz” he’s a priest of the Most-High God creator of heaven and earth. Keith: Come on. Nehemia: So, he is a king and he’s a priest at the same time. Now how does that fit in with the Torah system? Because, you know, Melchizedek wasn’t an Israelite, he was before Israel. So, we have an interesting verse in 2 Samuel, chapter 8, verse 18, and I’m going to ask both you and Keith to read it and tell me what it says. Jono: 2 Samuel, chapter 8:18 says, I’ll tell you what it says in the New King James, “Benaiah the son of Jehoiada…” there’s some guy I can’t pronounce. Nehemia: Jehoiada. Thank you. Jono: “…was over both the…” those guys and those guys, “…and David's sons were the chief ministers.” Nehemia: What do you have there “David's sons,” Keith, “were...” Keith: “They were royal advisers,” but I have a note that says they were priests. Nehemia: In Hebrew it says, “U Bnei David Kohanim hayu,” and the sons of David were Kohanim. Now, I don’t think these were Kohanim in the Temple, that these were priests in the Temple, or the Tabernacle, because we know who was serving in that context and we’re told that. We read it in the stories of David, you know, that he had…there are actually two specific people. So, it’s not…they weren’t functioning in that capacity. And so here Kohen, priest, doesn’t mean Temple priest, it apparently has some other context or some other meaning. If you think about it, a priest of the Most-High God, creator of heaven and earth, and he’s king over what? What is Melchizedek a king over? We’re told the king of Shalem, which is Salem, which most people identify as Jerusalem. Jono: Sure. Nehemia: So, he’s king of Jerusalem, he’s a priest to the Most-High God, creator of heaven and earth, but he doesn’t bring sacrifices in the Temple. Well, that’s what is being described here with David, that his sons were Kohanim. So, think about Solomon, he’s a Kohen to the Most-High God creator of heaven and earth. He’s not usurping the priesthood of Aaron, that’s the priesthood forever, we read that in Exodus. He’s not trying to replace Aaron. But he, in a different sense, is a Kohen, a priest to the Most-High God creator of heaven and earth, and the king over Jerusalem. Can I get an Amen? Jono: Amen. Keith: Amen. Nehemia: So, I think that’s what Psalm 110 is saying, that the Messiah, who’s going to be a king, he’s going to be a descendant of David, he’s going to be the priest to the Most-High God creator of heaven and earth. Not after the manner of Aaron, but after the manner of Melchizedek. Jono: What do you mean by manner? Nehemia: Ah, well, that’s already a question of interpretation. Jono: Oh! But the root is “davar,” right? Nehemia: Exactly. So, you could translate it literally on the word of Melchizedek, I guess. Jono: Okay. Keith: May it be, may it be. Jono: So, can I, while we’re here… Nehemia: Now there are other possibilities, you're absolutely right, but that's my Karaite take on it. Jono: Well, there’s some homework for the listener. So just one thing before we move on: Kohen, once again, Kohen; can we define it in a nutshell as one who serves? Nehemia: Definitely. Kohen means to serve. Absolutely. In a sense, that’s what it means. Jono: Okay. So, cannot anyone be a Kohen in a sense? I mean does it have to… Nehemia: You just have to be an Aaronic Kohen. You can’t be a Kohen after the manner of Aaron, only a descendant of Aaron can be after the manner of Aaron. Jono: Amen. Nehemia: We’re told we're a “Bmamlechet Kohanim u goy kadosh,” we're a kingdom of Kohanim and a holy nation. So that doesn’t mean we’re all coming and bringing sacrifices to the Temple. On the contrary, in Leviticus, he says, you know, that the priests have to protect their kehuna, that word that you mentioned before, and it appears in that exact context. If you look, for example, in Numbers, chapter three, verse 10, it says, "and you shall appoint Aaron and his sons, and they shall wait on their priest's office.” In Hebrew that’s “kehuna,” same word as in Exodus 40, “And a stranger that comes near shall be put to death.” So, nobody else, besides Aaron and his sons, can serve that function, and if they try to, it’s a capital offense; they’re to be executed. That doesn’t mean that David’s sons were doing that; of course they weren’t. They were Kohen in a different sense; they were serving God in a different way. And I think that’s what the Messiah, descendant of David, will be. He’s not going to usurp the high priest; he’s going to be a parallel different sort of function. Jono: Hmm. Nehemia: So, assuming that it is referring to the Messiah, all it’s saying is that the Messiah is going to serve God as a human king. Jono: Sure. But I guess my curiosity is this; the word “divrati”, it comes from the root word “davar.” Nehemia: Hmm. Jono: Can it not simply be in reference to the words he spoke in Genesis, Bereshit 14? Because if you look at the context of 110 it really is talking about gaining victory over the enemies, ruling over the enemies, and crushing the enemy. And really that’s what it says in 14, he says, “Blessed be Abraham of God Most High and blessed be God Most High, who has delivered your enemies into your hand." Nehemia: So, it could mean according to the word of Melchizedek, meaning according to the blessing of Melchizedek. That’s possible. Jono: Sure! Well, I mean, considering the context of his blessing, it’s interesting, because the Christian theology of priesthood, the word “hood,” is synonymous with the word "order" in Psalm 110, verse 4. Nehemia: Oh, it definitely doesn’t say “order” in Psalm 110. Jono: It definitely doesn’t say “order,” but what you’re saying… Nehemia: What would order even be? What would that… Jono: Well, order in that sense, that what they’re saying is a successive rank or status; categorical class. If it is in regard to the word, the actual words that the Melchizedek spoke, and looking at what he said, and looking at the context of Psalm 110. Because you know, you look at that Psalm 110 and the amount of times that it just mentions…and it begins with, “I will make your enemies your footstool. I will rule in the midst of your enemies.” It goes on to say that “to execute the kings in the day of the wrath,” and so on and so forth. And if you look at what Melchizedek said, "Blessed be Abraham of God Most High, possessor of heaven and earth. And blessed be God Most High, who has delivered your enemies into your hand." Does it not flow? Nehemia: That’s a great interpretation, very possible. Jono: Okay. Here we have an everlasting priesthood, “Thus Moses did according to all that Yehovah had commanded him, so he did. And it came to pass, in the first month of the second year, on the first day of the month, that the Tabernacle was raised up.” So, there we go. Keith: Amen. Jono: Finally, it was. And so, the Tabernacle…fastened its sockets, the boards, the bars, and the pillars. And spread out the tent over the Tabernacle, the covering and …as Yehovah had commanded Moses; put the Ark in there, inserted the poles through the rings of the Ark in the so-called mercy seat on top of the Ark. And brought the Ark into the Tabernacle, hung up the veil of covering and partitioned off the Ark of the Testimony as Yehovah had commanded Moses. And it goes on as to how it was all assembled. And verse 33 says, “And he raised up the court all around the tabernacle and the altar and hung up the screen of the court gate. So, Moses finished all the work.” Keith: Amen. Jono: There it was. Was there a little plaque and a ceremony? Nehemia: And we have finished all the work of the Torah portions of Exodus. Jono: There we go. Nehemia: One thing to point out, which is interesting, is that the word here is “melacha,” the same word where it talks about Shabbat, you shall, you know, not do any melacha; any work. So, what they were doing in the Tabernacle was, in fact, work. And if you’ve ever sewn, which I actually haven’t, but if you’ve ever sewn you know that’s work. And if you’ve… Jono: Sure. Nehemia: …you know, done all those different things that they were doing, making planks and casting different metals into different shapes and stuff like that. Well, that’s work. Jono: Sure. There it is. Keith: Amen. Jono: So now the Shekhinah. Now, is the word Shekhinah used in the following verses here? Nehemia: Now when you say Shekhinah, you mean Shekhinah glory! Look, I can’t talk about this unless I get a Shekhinah glory from you. Keith: No, no. Nehemia: Keith Johnson, I want a Shekhinah glory! Keith: No, no. So, listen, are we going to dive into this here? Jono: Hey! I want to know, I mean… Nehemia: Because the word Shekhinah does not appear here and, in fact, the word Shekhinah does not appear in the Tanach at all. Shekhinah doesn’t appear… Keith: See this is the problem. Jono: Oh, blowing my mind. Are you serious? Keith: No, no. Right, guys, I got to stop here. Nehemia: Maybe we should run away from this. Keith: No, no. Look, I’ve been patient with you, and you guys have been talking and etcetera and etcetera, now… Jono: It’s your turn. Keith: It’s my turn here. Look, I grew up hearing, once I became a part of the church, not much in the Methodist church…every once in a while, I would sneak over to the Pentecostals and the Charismatics. Those were where Jono would come from, and they would say that sometimes the Shekhinah glory would fall. And I’m like, what? Wait, how do know? And then they would begin to say that if you speak these certain words and if you do these certain things and if you work up a sweat and if you do these sorts of things, didn’t you experience the Shekhinah glory? And I’d always be like, well, I don’t understand, where’s this Shekhinah glory? And then after a while, I started thinking, okay, well maybe there is a place where this would happen. And I’m thinking that it was the Charismatics that came up with this idea, “Shekhinah glory”; that they were the ones who came up with this word, looking in the Tanach. Come to find out that wasn’t the case, that there was another group of people. So Nehemia, could you tell us who this group of people are? Nehemia: Before I get to that, Jono what is…you came from, what is…is that the same thing as the Holy Ghost? Jono: Well, you know what Nehemia? There was…all I can tell you is that, to be perfectly honest, I couldn’t explain it. I don’t know what it was; I don’t know what it was meant to be. But, boy, we talked about it a lot. Keith: Yeah. Nehemia: Wow. Anyway, so Shekhinah, or Shekinah in English, Shekhinah appears in rabbinical sources. They talk all the time about the Shekhinah. And they translate that usually, in English, as the “presence of God.” Now, what does that mean, the “presence of God”? I guess if you ask most Rabbinical Jews, and if you ask me too, it’s a good question. Who knows? It’s a good question. But here, let me show you where it does appear in the Tanach after all, and that’s Exodus 24, verse 16. It says, “And the glory of the Lord abode upon Mount Sinai.” So “the glory of the Lord,” glory is the Hebrew word “kavod.” Say “kavod.” Jono: Kavod Nehemia: Okay. So, you have k'vod Yehovah, the glory of Yehovah, and then “abode”, the Hebrew word is “va-yis-kon”. And “va-yis-kon” actually is from the same root as Shekinah. Now Shekhinah is a certain form of the word that doesn’t appear in the Tanach, but that word appears as a verb, "And Yehovah “Shekhinah'ed” upon the mountain. The glory of the Lord “Shekhinah'ed” upon Mount Sinai; you could legitimately translate it that way. It dwelt, I mean ‘dwelt’ is probably a better translation than ‘abode,’ whatever that means. Then it says, “…and the cloud covered it for six days.” We have a bunch of places that talk about this. In Exodus 25, verse 8, it says, "And they shall make me a “mikdash”, a sanctuary, or a temple, “v shakhanti btocham”, and I will “shekainah” in their midst; I will dwell among them. I will “shekainah” in their midst. But what does that mean? And look, there are entire books of both Jewish and Christian theology that have been written trying to define what “Schinah” is. So, I’m not going to attempt to even do that. What I can say is that “Schinah” usually is understood, and I guess in your tradition as well, as some kind of tangible presence of God that can be felt, or the presence of God that could be felt in a way that it’s not normally felt. That’s certainly what I was always taught; that there’s something about God that you can feel in the Temple. That you couldn’t feel him walking around on the street. And there’s a really beautiful saying of one of the ancient rabbis that talks about, and here I’m going into tradition, okay. So, this statement of one of the rabbis, which I think is beautiful, says that wherever there are two people talking about the Torah, there the Schinah is felt, there the presence of God is felt. But what, really, is this Schinah? So, if we jump over to Deuteronomy, we get a really interesting phrase that appears over and over, and…let me find it for you. Hold on. So here we have Deuteronomy, chapter 12, verse 5, it says, “But unto the place which Yehovah your God shall choose out of all your tribes to put his name there…” Somebody say, “name.” Jono: Name. Keith: Name. Nehemia: “…shall put His name there even unto his habitation shall ye seek, and thither thou shalt come.” So, his habitation is “le-shikhno,” and, it’s not the best translation but whatever, close enough, to his Shekhinah. And really if you want to translate it more literally, it’s to place His name there to cause it to dwell; the “it” being His name. So, the Shekhinah there, the dwelling, is the dwelling of His name. Say name. Jono: Name. Keith: Name? Nehemia: Keith, you’re not cooperating. Keith: No, no, what are you talking about? Nehemia: No, you’re not working with me. Keith: This is great stuff. I’m saying, “name.” Nehemia: Deuteronomy, chapter 12, verse 11, "Then it shall come to pass, the place where Yehovah your God shall choose to cause His name to dwell there.” Again, “le-shaken shmo,” to “Shekhinah,” to cause His name to dwell. So, what is this Shekhinah, and Schinah, Shekhinah, if I have to translate it with one word? It would be indwelling. So Schinah is the indwelling of Yehovah’s name. Can I get an Amen now? Jono: Oh, the indwelling of Yehovah’s name. Keith: Listen… Nehemia: …of Yehovah’s name, and repeatedly, I’m not going to read you all these verses, but over and over in Deuteronomy I have this indwelling of Yehovah’s name. Another one is in Deuteronomy 16:2, 16:6; you get the idea. Let’s just jump over to another book. Let’s see, here…so Jeremiah, chapter 7, verse 12, he says, "Go to my place at Shiloh, where I had established my name formerly.” Well, it doesn’t say in the Hebrew “established”. Let’s see

In this episode of The Original Torah Pearls, Vayakhel (Exodus 35:1-38:20), we begin with asking what it means to "kindle a fire" on the Sabbath.  Then we ask what it means for someone's heart to be stirred, and how the various traditions understand this, leading to a wonderful discussion on how and why we give to God. There is a fascinating discussion of the nature of Polygamy in the Torah, which leads to an exciting examination of the nature of Paleo-Hebrew. I look forward to reading your comments! https://audio.nehemiaswall.com/Torah_Pearls/Torah-Pearls-22-Exodus-10-Vayakhel.mp3 Download Torah Pearls Vayakhel Transcript Torah Pearls #22 - Vayakhel (Exodus 35:1-38:20)You are listening to The Original Torah Pearls with Nehemia Gordon, Keith Johnson, and Jono Vandor. Thank you for supporting Nehemia Gordon's Makor Hebrew Foundation. Learn more at NehemiasWall.com. Jono: G'day to Tamara in Nebraska. And wherever you may be around the world, thank you for your company. It is time for Pearls from the Torah Portion with Keith Johnson and Nehemiah Gordon. G'day, gentlemen. Keith: Good day. Nehemia: Good day! And this is a shout-out to Serena Sorenstein in Longwood, Florida. Jono: Florida! There we go. Keith: And I’m giving a shout-out to Andrew. Jono: G'day, Andrew. Where is Andrew? Keith: Andrew is my son. Jono: Hey! And he’s a big fan, right? Keith: Yes, he is. Absolutely. He’s awesome. Nehemia: Hey, Andrew! Jono: Hey, now, listen, now, before we do anything, I should tell you guys that we’ve had a complaint. Nehemia: Okay. Jono: Alright, I’m going to tell you what this is. Keith: Yeah? Nehemia: That means we’re doing something right. Jono: No, no, this is from Linda and Phil. And I appreciate comments from our listeners and thank you, Linda and Phil, for your comment. They write, “We have been listening since the beginning, and it seems to us that the quality of the talk is degenerating into jokes and laughter too much. Please listen to your broadcast and hear yourselves. Quit it with all the jokes and laughing and get back to the Bible and the Torah portion, which is the real reason why we are listening.” I’m talking to you, Karaite, so stop being so funny. Nehemia: There is a way to protect all of us from this issue of the jokes, and that’s if we need to be wrapped in a Torah scroll. Jono: That’s a joke. Nehemia: And then nothing can touch us, we're protected. Jono: Oh, Keith? Keith quick. Damage control. Keith: Yeah, you know, one of the things that is happening is that we’re actually learning and growing as we’re going, and it really is fun to be here. I mean, we’ve got three different time zones. We’ve got three different people from three different backgrounds trying to have commonality in the Word of God. And the truth is that sometimes, the only way that we can deal with some of the things we deal with is to laugh and to be together. And hopefully those people will understand we take seriously the Word of God, but we also are human and we’re trying to figure this out. And I actually appreciate the fact that as we go along with this, we can bring some of the human side of this into it. I mean, it certainly isn’t some dry opportunity. We’re trying to have some fun while we’re…and I think the Word of God is fun, to be honest with you. Nehemia: Amen. Keith: So, we’ll keep trying to do what we’re doing and make sure that people can hear what we’re hearing and get the revelation. But I don’t want to tell Nehemia, hey, Nehemia, go back to the way you were ten years ago where I couldn’t crack of smile out of him. I mean, I’d rather have… Nehemiah: Well, here’s the thing; if they’re not happy with my jokes, they’re entitled to a full refund. Jono: There you go. That’s very high of you. I should put that on the website, “if you’re not happy, we will give you your money back absolutely.” Keith: But listen, you know, we are coming to this with integrity and excitement and joy and happiness, and it’s a big deal for us. It’s fun, it’s fun for me to be talking to you Jono and Nehemia. It really is hilarious that it’s midnight for you, and two o’ clock for Nehemia, and seven o’clock for me. People should know, sometimes the phone rings and I’m like, “Oh, what time is it?” And sometimes Nehemia hadn’t had his coffee or had three cups of it. So, I mean… Jono: Well, that’s good. Now, see, Keith, you are, I just got to say, you are great at damage control. You’re the man! Keith: It’s not damage control. Jono: No, it is. No, come on. I mean, I would go so far as to say that this is a skill that you have developed just from having this relationship with Nehemia, right? Keith: I wouldn’t say. Jono: It's refined you. Keith: He’s refined me, yes. Jono: Yeah. Keith: I do want to say something though. You know, I asked a question, Jono, and I told Nehemia I’ve been asking this question. I’ve asked the question in the last few weeks from a number of different people. I say, “Tell me where there is a Jew and Gentile working together where the common ground truly is the Word of God, and it’s not about conversion, and it’s not about some peace initiative or it’s not about some fundraising thing, but actually where a Jew and a Gentile come together on the Word of God?” And they couldn’t tell me of anywhere where that was happening, except for what’s happening here on Truth2U, and Pearls from the Torah, where, in integrity, we are taking and really holding an important topic, which is the Bible. Jono: Amen. Keith: But, at the same time, what people should get excited about is we’re doing this in a way where we’re not saying, “Nehemiah, you can only say this; Keith, you can only say that; Jono, you can only say this.” And we’re bringing who we are as people to this. Jono: Yes. Keith: That’s what I think it’s so cool about it. So, to me, let the fun continue. Jono: Let the fun continue! Nehemia: Amen. Jono: We do agree with Linda and Phil that obviously, the Word of God is to be taken seriously, and we do endeavor to take it seriously Keith: Yes. Jono: And it’s probably good every now and then to be kept in check. So, what I’m going to do, we’ve already gone from being Rated-M to Rated-PG, now I’m going to move us from the comedy section to the historical documentary section. How is that? Keith: Okay. Jono: All right. That’s where we’ll be going on the shelf. Today, we are in… Nehemia: I didn’t agree to that. Keith: Okay, go ahead. Go ahead. Jono: You’ll have to speak to the Censor Board, I think. Today, we are in Vayakhel, Exodus 35:1-38:20, and it begins like this, “Then Moses gathered all the congregation of the children of Israel together, and said to them, ‘These are the words which Yehovah has commanded you to do: Work shall be done for six days, but the seventh day shall be a holy day for you, a Sabbath of rest to Yehovah. Whoever does any work on it shall be put to death.’” Full stop, but then in verse 3, “You shall kindle no fire throughout your dwellings on the Sabbath day.” Now, I know we’ve touched on this briefly. Actually, Yoel ben Shlomo and myself, we’ve actually discussed this a couple of times in a little more depth in recent conversation, but do you guys have anything to add to this? It’s verse 3, of 35. Keith: I know for myself, this is a verse…and you know, it’s really wonderful when we do go through these portions. As we read them, there are certain things that jump off the page as far as remembering. And I remember having this conversation with Nehemia, because for me as a Methodist coming to the Tanakh, I kind of saw the Sabbath as something that was for the Jews, and it’s nice that they have that. But we know eventually, they will come to the light of the knowledge that Sunday is the real day, and that was sort of my thought. From a re-reading of the Tanakh and understanding the significance of the Sabbath itself as a theme that runs throughout the entire Tanakh even into the New Testament, it made me slow down and ask a simple question. So, what does it mean to actually honor the Sabbath? Well, one of the things that came up, and I remember having this conversation with Nehemia in great depth regarding this idea of fire on the Sabbath. Was it the fire because of the work that you had to go through? Thinking this in my mind: it’s the work; you are dealing with gathering wood. Until we did what he loved to do with me, to go word-by-word, and idea-by-idea, and concept-by-concept, what did the word “work,” mean? And then that’s when the light came on again, and I said, “Ok, so what is this issue of fire?” Nehemia, you probably remember this conversation, and I think you did a phenomenal job of taking it apart and putting it back together again. It’s like having a toy and saying, “Hey, how does this toy work?” “Well, let’s take it apart.” “Oh, but the toy is broken.” “Yeah, but we’re going to put it back together again.” And the Sabbath and the issue of the fire was that kind of thing for me. So, I think it’s important to know, when He’s talking about the Sabbath here, He’s talking about something, as I mentioned, that’s been consistent as a theme throughout. But then when He specifically says, “Do not light a fire in any of your dwellings on the Sabbath day”, people have interpreted that to mean so many different things that this could be one of those things that, if we took a moment and I’d ask Nehemia, “In your tradition, what did it mean not to light a fire, and did that include, then, modern times' electricity?” That would be a question that I would ask. Nehemia: Really it says, “Don’t kindle", or "don’t light a fire,” actually even translating it “Don’t light a fire,” is already gravitating towards one of the interpretations, I guess you have to do. So, this has been interpreted in quite a number of different ways. In fact, there’s a very common Jewish tradition that has its source in this verse as a way of forcing people into one particular interpretation of this verse. That tradition is, specifically, lighting the Sabbath candles on Friday afternoon just before sunset…this is a rabbinical tradition…and when they light the Sabbath candles, they say, “Bless our Lord, King of the Universe who has sanctified us with His commandments, commanding us to light the Sabbath candle.” So, basically, they’re saying that God has commanded us to light the Sabbath candle and everyone knows that God did not actually command us to light the Sabbath candles. In fact, that’s a rabbinical commandment, a rule that, actually, the rabbis made up, what they call “Takkanot.” It’s an injunction that the Rabbis foisted upon the people, and they actually only did this around the 9th or 10th century. The context of this particular one of the Takkanot was, that there was a debate between Rabbinical Jews and the Karaite Jews, specifically over this verse. The predominant view of the Karaite Jews at that time was, that not only does this mean not to start a fire, and not only is it not to start and feed a fire, you shouldn’t start a fire, feed a fire, or even have a fire. And they actually translated this verse as, “You shall not cause a fire to burn in all your habitations on the Sabbath Day”, which is a possible translation from the Hebrew; meaning, you could legitimately translate it that way. There is, actually, I believe the Everett Fox edition, which is one of the translations of the Torah, a rabbinical translation, actually, that translates this as, “You shall not burn a fire in all your habitations on the Sabbath Day.” Well, which one is it? Those are three different interpretations: the actual act of initially starting the fire, the act of initiating it and then also feeding it. Or maintaining it. Those are two different things, right? And the third one is starting it, feeding it, that is maintaining it, and even leaving it from beforehand. So, the Rabbis stepped in and they said, “You know, a lot of our people are gravitating towards this Karaite position. We’re going to tip the scales by requiring people to light a fire on Friday afternoon, and leave it burning until the Sabbath, and we’re going to make them proclaim that God has given us the authority to do this”. When they say, God has sanctified us with his commandments concerning the Sabbath candle, everyone understood that was actually God, supposedly, giving the Rabbis authority to create new commandments. So, this thing has continued until this day. Now, what I see many Karaite Jews from my camp doing is they get very reactionary. They say, “Well, if the Rabbis are lighting the Sabbath candles because they knew that it was forbidden based on the Karaite interpretation, then we’re going to stick to that interpretation and not even listen to what the other possibilities are.” And I think that’s a mistake. I think what we really should do is say, here are all the possibilities; I’m not going to be pushed into one box or another box. You could appreciate that, Keith. I don’t want to be pushed into one box or another box just because some group did something a thousand years ago. What does that have to do with me? I want to understand the Word of God as it was intended. Now, how do we do that? That’s not so easy. Remember, I said, that was the predominant position of the Karaites a thousand years ago. Jono: Yes. Nehemia: There are actually other positions. And really, all three of those positions that I mentioned: starting the fire, starting and feeding, starting, feeding and having, you could find those among different Karaites. Then, for example, one Karaite, about a hundred years ago pointed out and said, “Look, today we can just press a button. How can you tell me that that’s work on the Sabbath, pressing a button to start a fire”? In the old days what they would do is they’d take two pieces of flint, or they’d take actually a piece of iron and flint, and then it sparks, and there was a whole process of building a fire. Today, when you press a button and, for example, turn on your car, and you say, “Well, what does a car have to do with fire?” A car has an internal combustion engine. Every time you step on the gas, you are feeding fire to the car. When you turn it on initially, you are actually starting a fire. So, for example, Orthodox Jews won’t use a car on Shabbat, and most Karaite Jews that I know won’t use a car on Shabbat. And the question really is, and I’m not going to answer this for the people because my motto as a Karaite Jew is, search well the Scripture and don’t rely blindly on anyone’s opinion. Jono: Amen. Nehemia: You know, work it out for yourselves. But really, you have to ask the question, “What is this commandment about?” If the commandment is about work, about labor, then it does have to do with the labor involved in starting it. The counterargument to that is well, it doesn’t say the word “labor” in verse 3, “labor” is mentioned in verse 2. Okay, so you could argue that. So, there are all these considerations out there, and I think it’s something that people have to stop and say, okay, I need to study this; to ask God to give me guidance and to open my eyes. I think maybe this is a good time for Keith to say our weekly prayer. Jono: Hey, there it is. Keith: Uh. Jono: Psalm 119 verse 18, and Keith’s going to say it. He’s just… Keith: This is always what Nehemia does. Well, let me say this, I’m actually appreciating this. I happen to be in a situation now where, like I mentioned to you and Jono earlier, one of the things that feel to me when we get to the Tanakh is the chance to hide a little bit in the Word of God, and while we are in the Word of God, we get such an amazing perspective. So, let me just say this prayer for all those that are simply needing this. Father, we want to thank you for this chance to be on this communication ability, we’re able to communicate around the world. And right now, as we are in the Word of God, we ask that you would open our eyes, and that we might see the wonderful things that are hidden in Your Torah, including the things that we don’t understand. And so, in this situation, we thank You in advance that, in the end, we will have drawn closer to You by simply approaching the Scripture with integrity and asking, what does it mean for us now? In Your Name, Amen. Jono: Amen. Nehemia: Amen. Jono: Amen. Keith: So, one of the things I want to say, Jono and Nehemia, regarding this verse is, it was a bit of a rabbit hole, because what I wanted to ask was, what would be the significance of fire beyond the idea of lighting it? So, from a practical standpoint, I wanted to ask a question. When I was over in Israel, I would see people have this whole idea of lights on and lights off. So, if you turn the light on, one friend of mine said, well, if I turn the light on before Shabbat, and I don’t turn it off, then I can keep the light on, but I believe that the light is fire or something like that. So, my question Nehemia is… Nehemiah: Actually, that doesn’t have to do with fire. That has to do with something else. Keith: That has to do with something else. Nehemia: Because most Jews don’t connect electricity to fire. Keith: Okay. Nehemia: They are actually two different forces. So, I don’t really think that has to do with fire. That has to do with the concept that when electricity, electrical lights especially, came into vogue, the rabbinical authorities, or the people who call themselves the rabbinical authorities, asked the question: “Is this something that we want to be doing on Shabbat, turning on and off the lights?” And, for a variety of reasons, they decided, if you leave it on from before the Sabbath, you can have it on, but you can’t turn it on and off. And, if you leave it on, you’ve got to leave it on and if you leave it off, you’ve got to leave it off. Then, there’ll be ridiculous situations that happen. I remember growing up, everyone would be, on Friday night, at the Shabbat table, and the circuit breaker would jump, or actually back then, I’m that old, the fuse would blow. Keith: Yeah, I remember that. Nehemia: Back when there were actually physical fuses. And I grew up Orthodox, so the belief was that we’ve got to wait until after Shabbat to fix it. So, we’d be sitting there, as Orthodox Jews, sitting in the dark on a Friday night, without light, without any electricity, and the food in the refrigerator, in the freezer going bad, and that’s just how it was. Then I had friends growing up who would say, “Well, that’s caused by demons, the demons coming to destroy the circuit so that you’ll suffer on Shabbat.” Which, you know, I thought was utterly ridiculous, but who knows, right? So anyway, that actually doesn’t have to do necessarily with fire, or they don’t connect it to fire directly. The issue with fire really plays out when it comes to something like a car. A car does produce electricity, and so if you take this to mean that you’re not allowed to start a fire or feed a fire, and that it has nothing to do with the labor involved, then you can’t use a car on Shabbat. Now, why would there be a commandment like that? That’s the question you’re asking. And the truth is, we can ask that for a lot of commandments. There’s the commandment about not mixing wool and linen; so, what’s the reason for that commandment? Or the classic example they ask is, why do we, for purification from the dead, why do they bring a red heifer; why isn’t it a black heifer or a blue heifer, right? So, the tendency in the Jewish tradition is to say, well, “kacha,” it’s just an arbitrary thing, or maybe it’s not arbitrary, but we don’t know because God didn’t tell us. Really, how you keep this commandment has to do with how you understand that. I mean, if you say, well, this is about labor, then that already will influence how you keep this commandment. If you say, well, it’s just some arbitrary thing and I don’t know why, or some people will say, everything in the universe that has to do with creation is connected to fire. You know, the first thing God said was, “Let there be light” and the people who said this assumed that that had something to do with fire, and so fire is creation and we shouldn’t have to do with creation. So, there’s all kinds of different opinions out there about what exactly this means and, therefore, what the application is. I was thinking about this recently; there was this movement, like almost two thousand years ago, called the Gnostics. They believed that you have to have a certain knowledge in order to get salvation. If you didn’t have that exact secret knowledge then you were going to burn in the fires of Hell forever, except for maybe not on Shabbat because there’s no fire, right? That was a joke. Keith: Mhm. Nehemia: “Mhm,” he’s not laughing. What’s going on here? Keith: No, no… Jono: He’s doesn’t laugh because we already said we’re not going to be funny. What are you talking about? Keith: OK. Go ahead. Nehemia: OK. Well, you said you were not going to be funny. I can’t… Keith: OK. Nehemia: Anyway, so I don’t think this is about Gnosis, about having secret knowledge. I don’t think you need to interpret this the correct way in order to be right with God. The way I look at it, when the Messiah comes, He’ll tell us what the true interpretation is. Keith: Can I give a… Nehemia: What we have to do until then is do the best that we can. I believe that the process of going through that, of saying, God, give me guidance and help me understand how to keep this commandment, and even if you get it wrong, you’ve done your best. I think that is having the relationship with God, as opposed to getting up and just saying, “Okay, well, this is what my people told me to do so I’m going to follow that.” Well, then you are following the commandment of men, not the commandment of God. Even if they happen to have the right secret knowledge, that’s not you having a relationship with God. Jono: You need to own it for yourself. Nehemia: You need to own it for yourself. I think that’s more important than if you happen to get the right interpretation. I’ll give you from my own experience, I’ve actually run the entire gamut on this verse throughout my years. There was a time when on Shabbat, basically, I sat throughout the entire Shabbat without any electricity, any lights, and basically had nothing on Shabbat because I was thinking…I won’t go into the whole complicated thing. Basically, I’ve looked at all the different understandings of this, and throughout my years, I feel like I’ve grown, and evolved, and maybe some people think I devolved. But I think it’s more important that I have that relationship with God than that I stick to a tradition that I have come to believe is wrong. And there I’ll let Keith talk; I’ve got nothing more to say. Jono: Keith? Keith: Well, no, all I was going to say is that one of the things that I’ve decided to do here in our household is, I took the idea of dwelling where I live and the idea of whether I would be lighting a fire…not whether I’d have lights on and circuits on or those kinds of things. But basically, the overall riding idea that I’ve taken is, what does it mean for my house to rest? What does it mean for me to take a time that’s different during that 24-hour period of time; that’s not like the other six days? And so, and you know, this is another discussion. I tell the oven, “Hey, oven, rest,” and the other things, let’s all rest together and just have an enjoyable time during Shabbat, and it makes that day different than any other day without making judgment about anyone else and how the details of it work out. I just don’t light a fire. It’s as simple as that for me. Jono: Sure. There it is. Keith: So anyway. Jono: Yeah, no, that’s good, I’m glad we touched on that. “And Moses spoke to all the congregation of Israel and the children of Israel, saying, “This is the thing which Yehovah commanded, saying: ‘Take from among you an offering to Yehovah. Whoever is of a willing heart, let him bring it as an offering to Yehovah: gold, silver, bronze; blue, purple, scarlet thread, fine linen, goats’ hair, ram skin dyed red badger skins…” Now, I think we’ve touched on this, didn’t we? Nehemia: Yeah, we talked about that. Jono: Talked about that one. Okay. Nehemia: Yeah. Jono: “…and acacia wood; oil for the light, spices of anointing oil, sweet incense, onyx stones, and stones to be set in the ephod in the breastplates.” Now, a lot of this stuff, just to let everybody know, there’s a lot of repetition and stuff that we have actually covered, but I do want to point something out here. It goes on about the anointing oil and the hangings and the sockets and the pillars and the garments, and so on and so forth. But Keith, it talks about the offering, and I’m particularly interested in the offering because something very interesting happens here. “All the congregation of the children of Israel departed from the presence of Moses. Then everyone came whose heart was stirred, and everyone whose spirit was willing, and they brought Yehovah offering for the work of the Tabernacle of Meeting, for all its service, and for its holy garments. They came, both men and women, as many as had a willing heart, and they brought their earrings and nose rings, their rings, their necklaces, the jewelry of gold, that every man who made an offering of gold to Yehovah. And every man, with whom was found blue, purple, and scarlet thread, and fine linen…” And basically, they brought it all; and they were very willing. It’s interesting; in verse 26, it says, “And the women whose hearts stirred with wisdom spun yarn of goats’ hair. And the rulers brought onyx stones,” and all of this stuff, and all of a sudden we read in verse 29, “The children of Israel brought a freewill offering to Yehovah, and all the men and women whose hearts were willing to bring material for all kinds of work which Yehovah, by the hand of Moses, had commanded to be done.” So, the call went out. They said, “This is what we need; those of you whose hearts have stirred to give, those of you who are willing, please come forward and give a freewill offering to Yehovah for the service of the temple and materials for the temple.” And there was an overwhelming response. Nehemia: I think that was a very interesting translation, like in verse 21 you read it something like "his heart was stirred," or something like that. But what it actually says…how did it translate that in verse 21? Jono: In verse 21, “Then everyone came whose heart was stirred, and everyone whose spirit was willing, and they brought Yehovah offering for the tabernacle.” Nehemia: Okay. So, what it says in Hebrew is, “And they came, every man whose heart lifted him up, and everyone who his spirit,” and this is funny to translate, “his spirit caused him to give freely.” So here it’s not…what it literally says in Hebrew isn’t passive, it’s actually an action that, “his heart lifted him up and his spirit caused him to give freely.” Later, in verse 26, it says, “And all the women who their hearts, or their heart, lifted them up with wisdom.” And then again in verse 29, “every man and woman who their heart caused them to give freely.” So, it’s really interesting that the heart and the spirit are described as doing this in the Hebrew. In the English, it’s translated into passive action; it just happened somehow, and I think that’s interesting. Jono: It’s fascinating. Verse 31, says, and it’s talking of…actually, let’s just start from verse 30, “And Moses said to the children of Israel, “See, Yehovah has called by name…” is that Beazel? Nehemia: Betz-alel. Jono: Bezalel, the son of Uri. Nehemia: So, can we talk about him for a second? Jono: Please. Nehemia: You know, Hebrew names are short sentences very often, and Betzalel, his name…you can actually translate it in a couple of different ways. This is one of, I suppose, the embarrassing things…we don’t always know what the reason for the name is. Take a name like Aaron; we don’t actually know for sure what that name means. “Betzalel”, there’s actually two big possibilities. One is that it’s from the two words “bazal,” and “El,” which means, “the onion of God.” Jono: The what? “The onion of God”? Is that what you said? Nehemia: The onion of God, right. And the onions they had were probably more like scallions because those are the ones that are indigenous to this region. So, “the scallion of God.” I mean, and that’s a possibility, that that was simply what his name meant, and for whatever reason. The other possibility is that his name means “the shadow of God.” That’s the other possibility, “Betzel-El”. Jono: Okay. I think I like the shadow. Nehemia: Yeah. Although the truth is… Keith: I like both of them. Jono: You like both of them? Keith: I like both of them. Jono: “The onion of God”? Keith: And I’ll tell you why, the first one… Nehemia: The scallion and the shadow. Jono: Keith? Keith: Well, no I want to back up one second. So, one of the things that’s always a really big tension, and it really is a tension regarding this whole issue of ministry and money. And this idea, when I read this story, how powerful it is that there was a vision and then there was the provision. But what happened was for the provision to meet the vision, there had to be something internal to the people; something had to happen. I think that humanly, short of something happening, it’s always, like, well, what’s the least amount that I can do and get away with it. And what’s so powerful about this particular story, and what gives me great hope, is that when He determined, when the Father determined, we’re going to bring forth this amazing place where I’m going to come and dwell and speak, and it’s going to be a picture of my presence on earth, if I can say this, he could’ve snapped his fingers and let something fall from Heaven and there it was. But instead, what happened is the people’s spirits were stirred; they came willingly. And it’s interesting, Moses didn’t stand up and say, “Okay, now, who will give the fifty; who will give the hundred; who will give the thousand; how can I play the right music; how can I give you the right message; what video can I play?” Jono: “How can I get the lighting just right, and the music just right to stir you?” Keith: Yeah. But what I want to say about this, and I guess, I’ve come to this place as a result of reading this, is I’m no longer afraid to address this issue because of the nonsense that takes place regarding resources. When there is a vision that people believe in, what I always pray for is that they would have the experience like they had back then: that their hearts would be stirred, that their minds would be moved, whether they’re stirred in the night or in the day or whatever that says, “You know what, this is important.” I’ll give you an example, and I’m just going to use you as an example, Jono. You’ll say at the end of the program, “And if this program has helped you, please consider donating.” You know, you never talk about it too much, but you know what? One of the things that I pray is that people would be stirred, and they would be moved, and they would say, “Hey, Jono, this is an amazing thing that you’re doing there, how can we help you? How can we support you?” And those people out there do have something…learn some information, get some inspiration, get some revelation. I don’t mind saying today, where I wouldn’t have said it last year, but I will say it today: there is a place in our lives, where, when He moves us to bring provision around a vision, that we should have joy and excitement about it, it takes no manipulation, but sometimes people don’t even know the need. And I want to tell you that I am appreciating now that we can begin to say: Here’s what the vision is; here’s what we’re going to do, and if you’re stirred, we’d love for you to be a part of it. But here’s the difference: you bring it, we’re not going to receive it. You bring it; you feel led to bring it. We’re not going to manipulate, call and make you feel guilty for not. That’s between you and God. So, I wanted to say that, it’s powerful. Now, about my friend who has the two different meanings of the name, let me be a preacher for a second. I’m thinking, well, if he’s the onion of God, God had to peel him and make the people weep and then Lord, the deeper he got to the core of who he was; the people begin to weep and that’s what the… Nehemia: That’s joking, got to stop. Keith: No, I’m not joking. I mean, listen… Nehemia: Well, that was too funny. Keith: Listen, it's the shadow of God, it's the reflection…you know, there are so many powerful things. Sometimes, you guys, what I do when I do study the Tanakh, I literally have to get up from my table and walk away. Nehemia: That’s how you do it. Keith: Because of the depth that could be there and the depth that is there. So, I like both options. Jono: So, I’m putting a tick against both of your names for being funny. There it is. Keith: No, no. Nehemia: Going back to the issue of what you said, Keith, about how, I guess, especially in your tradition, there’s the idea of getting the music just right and the lighting just right. What they’re trying to do is they’re trying to stir people’s hearts and what it says. And maybe that’s the significance of it in verse 21… Keith: Yeah. Nehemia: …where it says, “And they came, every man who his heart stirred him and everyone who his spirit caused him to give freely.” So rather than this being an outside force, this was something that came from within them… Keith: Amen. Nehemia: …and stirred them, and uplifted them… Jono: Amen. Nehemia: …to then go and give. Jono: So, it wasn’t a matter of being manipulated or influenced into a particular emotion. Let me tell you from my experience. For many, many years, I was a guitarist in what was called the Ministry Team, the Music Ministry Team, and that’s specifically what we aimed to do, I don’t mind telling you. We arranged the order of songs to progress in a particular direction emotionally. I mean I’ll tell you, one of my favorite bands, when I was younger, was Pink Floyd, because I loved the way that they could manipulate the crowd with emotion, and I just found that to be such a powerful thing. And we used to do that in church. We would play in a certain way, and manipulate the song even, to bring about emotion, and people would love to get wrapped up in it, and then that’s called the Holy Spirit. It was just the way we worked, and it worked, and that’s why we did it. So, you know, it’s chapters like this that I really do appreciate. That Yehovah says, “Hey, freewill offering if you are stirred, by all means, bring in this of what need to do.” And the people were stirred, and Nehemia, as you said, their hearts lifted them up and their spirit moved them to, and they gave so, and I want to come back in this in just a minute, but they gave so much. That we read over in verse 6 of chapter 36, where it says, and in fact let me go back to verse 5, it says, “and they spoke to Moses, saying,” this are the workers; these are the people, the artists, the trained workers, the craftsmen. They said, “The people bring much more than enough.” Much more than enough; not just that they've brought enough, it’s not just they brought more than enough; they brought much more than enough, “for the service of the work which Yehovah commanded us to do.” So, Moses gave a commandment,” Keith, he gave a commandment, “and they caused it to be proclaimed throughout the camp, saying, “Let neither man nor woman do any more work for the offering of the sanctuary.” And the people were restrained from bringing, for the material they had was sufficient for all the work to be done; indeed, too much.” Now, you know, these days, if something like that happened, they’d be saying, “Moses, you could’ve had a private jet. You don’t have a private jet in there. Do you have a private jet? You could have done it, and you told them to stop bringing and you could’ve, you know, keep it on.” Nehemia: They don’t do that a lot in you guys’ tradition? Where they tell people, look, we built the building we don’t need any more money. We have the money to pay for it and everything, so stop bringing. They don’t do that, is what you’re telling me? Jono: They, not in… Keith: I want to say this. One of the things that’s hard about this particular concept, for me, anyway, is that there’s work to be done. Nehemia: Amen. Keith: And when there’s work to be done, you’d love to be able to have that problem. The problem that I have is that, as I do go to different places and I do see different things, and whether I turn on the television or whether it’s the radio or whether I’m reading the newspaper or simply traveling, and I’m on my way to go and share with Nehemia on some concept that we’re dealing with that’s a Biblical concept, and we drive by ten churches that have 20,000 square feet and all these buildings. And I think to myself, “So, what is the actual work that’s being done, and when do you have enough for the work, versus when do you have enough to meet all the other desires and wants?” What’s the work versus the want or the desire? To be honest with you, I don’t know, for example, some of the places that I’ve been, I don’t know if it’s necessary to have gold-plated toilet handles versus not having an… Nehemia: What do you mean? The pastor needs to have…you want them to touch brass? What’s wrong with you? Keith: No, no. What I’m saying is when the need may be right around the corner for people, you know, widows and orphans, and people that need food or people…you know, we live in a society right now…let me start where I live, where there are a lot of people that are just struggling to make the minutiae, the small things happen. So, one of the things when I read this, and I appreciate you taking the time and slowing down on it, is enough for the work versus enough for what I want. And I believe there’s a lot of work that’s to be done, and I’m still praying that people’s hearts are stirred and their minds are stirred to say, “What is the work and how can we support it?” Jono: Amen. Keith: I want to tell you I appreciated us slowing down about that. Jono: Amen. So, I’m just going to step back, “Moses said to the children,” this is in verse 30, “Moses said to the children of Israel, ‘See, Yehovah has called by name,” onion-boy, “the son of Uri, the son of Hur, of the tribe of Judah,” now here it is, “and He has filled him with the Spirit of God, in wisdom and understanding, in knowledge and all manner of workmanship, to design artistic works, to work in.’” Now, this is something that we read actually over-and-over again that Yehovah…and we commented on this before... Keith: Right. Jono: …that he fills them with His Spirit to have the knowledge, the wisdom, the understanding, and it says in 32, “to design artistic works, to work in gold and silver and bronze, in cutting jewels for setting, in carving wood, and to work in all manner of artistic workmanship.” Verse 34, “And He has put in his heart the ability to teach.” So not only does Yehovah give them the wisdom, the knowledge, the understanding, the artistic design, the ability to work in this way, but also the ability to teach. Now, I want to stop and stand back and just jump off this for a second because I would say that Yehovah has put into you guys, the ability to teach. How does it feel? Tell us about it. Keith: I…well, let me say this, Jono… Jono: I’m serious. I’m absolutely serious because now here we are… Nehemia: Well, I give credit to Yehovah for everything I do right and take credit for everything I do wrong for myself. No, and I do believe, He’s put in me, in my heart, this ability to teach, and I think that’s an amazing gift that I cherish, and I’m aware of it and I don’t think it’s because I’m really smart or it’s because Keith has this natural talent. I think, in both cases, it’s that God has given us these abilities. I really do; so, thank you, God. Keith: Amen. Jono: I agree, because let me just remind the listeners you both wrote “A Prayer to Our Father,” again, I cannot recommend it highly enough. Keith, “His Hallowed Name Revealed Again,” and the teaching DVDs that go along with these books. Keith: Right. Jono: They’re so essential. And Nehemia, your new book, which is so close to being put out there, and I can’t tell the listeners how brilliant it is… Nehemia: In fact, by the time this is broadcast it may already be out there. Jono: Alright! That’s right, yeah. Keith: May it be. Well, I will say something. One of the things that is interesting about this is the idea being that the Spirit of God has given this ability to these folks to do His purposes, whether that be teaching…Jono, and I don’t mind saying this, we’ve been on I don’t know many different radio shows, how many different places where we’ve been on, and there’s no offense to anyone else we’ve ever spoken to, but you do a phenomenal job of being able to… Nehemia: You really do. Keith: …bring the best out of people that you interview, and that’s a gift. And I think all of this, you know, you say, “how does it feel?” And I could say, well, how does it feel to you? I mean, how does it feel that you’re being used to help people understand the Torah by providing this opportunity for us to come in and to work with you and to bring the best out of what we have. It’s a very natural experience to be here. But I think all of it focuses on one thing…the vision is X; the provision is, He’s got His people and His opportunities and everything we need to do what He wants us to do, we have. The question is, do we access it? You know, is it inconvenient? Are we afraid? There are all sorts of things that would maybe keep people from not doing it. But we want to keep doing what He’s calling us to do, and being a part of His work here and amongst us. I mean that’s what’s so powerful. But I do want to ask a question, and I think maybe people should ask this, I almost feel like it’s déjà vu as we’re going through this section because it was just a few chapters earlier where we were talking about, I think it is in chapter 31 if I’m right, you guys can let me know. Yeah, in chapter 31, we were dealing with this, and in chapter 31 it was talking about the Sabbath, and then we had this little interruption of the golden calf. Jono: Yes. Keith: And then we went back to this again. So, my question is simply this; if you’re reading this, does it not feel déjà vu to you all? Nehemia: Oh, yeah. Keith: You’re reading this about these men; you’re reading about this, and what would be the purpose for this being repeated? Now, I have some thoughts, but I’d like to hear yours, Jono, and Nehemia, and maybe others are asking the same question, we just went through this; am I listening to the same program? Nehemia: Right. And not only is it repeated, it is repeated in excruciating detail, especially as we get into the later chapters of this portion where it talks about… when you take, for example, the opening verses of chapter 37. I mean, it’s almost word for word, where it says, “And Betzalel made the Ark,” etc. and it mentions the dimensions of the Ark, and it’s almost word for word of the commandment where it was given in an earlier chapter, and what it could’ve done is just said, “And Betzalel made the Ark according to what Moses had commanded, all that Moses had commanded,” and moved on and saved us ten verses. Why did he do that? And I don’t an answer for that, meaning… Jono: Well, it seems like it was saying, this is what you will do. Nehemia: Right. Jono: And then, here it’s saying this is what they did do. Nehemia: Right. Well, why is there so much detail? Jono: It’s just the same amount of detail. Yeah, I understand what you’re saying. Nehemia: There are passages in the Bible where someone is given a very detailed commandment, and then it will say, “And he did according to all that God commanded him.” And it doesn’t repeat the thing in detail, and that’s actually really interesting. We see three patterns; this is significant, I think. We see three patterns; one is this pattern, where the commandment is given in detail and the execution of the commandment is given in detail. The second pattern is where the commandment is given in detail and the execution is stated very concisely, "and he did it". The third one, which is maybe the most interesting thing, to me, is that sometimes the giving of the commandment is very, I want to say laconic, but in plain English, that means it’s very concise and very, even, mysterious. And then, when they carry out the commandment, then it’s given in the great detail. So that’s something to be aware of; that we do have those three patterns. You’ll find all three of those throughout the Hebrew Bible. Meaning, sometimes, you will only find out what the details are when they carry it out, when the commandment’s actually given you just get kind of a vague statement, God commanded him concerning such-and-such. And then when he actually carries it out, it’s like, wow, all this detail, I didn’t know that. So, we have those three patterns. I don’t know that there’s a reason, you know, maybe there’s some secret hidden meaning that Keith can help us come up with, and then if we pay him enough money, he’ll give us that secret. Keith: No, the only thing…I want to say something about this that I think is really interesting. And this is simply a very casual thought, and I just want you all to think about this. So, what’s the difference between what happens in the chapters that we’re in now and the same discussion about this before? What would be the biggest event that took place between these two chapters? Jono: Well, that would be the golden calf, I suppose. Keith: Exactly. So, we have the golden calf, and then we have another very important thing that happens in between this… Nehemia: Or God revealing his attributes. That was also kind of, in Exodus 34. Keith: Exactly, and the new Stone Tablets. So, one of the things when I was reading this, I keep thinking, one of the most really wonderful concepts that Nehemia and I talked about some years ago, and please bear with me, I’m going back and forth regarding… Jono: Sure, please. Keith: …you know, the historical aspect of this. But for me, as a person who is coming to this in a new and fresh way, one of the things that was very interesting for me was the thinking of this concept of being that person who comes and hears this read, not that I’m sitting and reading it verse by verse. And I’ve got Jono there that’s going to help me slow down, and Nehemia that is going to explain it to me, and Keith that’s going to give some crazy Methodist interpretation. I’m just simply coming as an ancient Israelite, and I’m listening to this being read. So, the overall picture I get as I’m coming and listening to this being read is, here’s what God initially did, here’s what He spoke, here’s what He did, and Moses went up to go out and get this information, and while he did this the people fell into a great sin. And now, this great sin gives us, “We interrupt this program for sin.” The sin comes in, it’s the golden calf, okay, we’ve got to do it again. So, he goes back up to the mountain, and he goes back up to the mountain and he does this, and this time he’s spending the time and he comes down and he’s got the radiant face. Now, we’re going to be able to see it even more clear because now, we’re not dealing about the golden calf. It’s like in the big picture of it, it doesn’t seem so overwhelming. It’s like, here’s what happened, you guys messed it up, here’s what happened. And when I think about my kids, I think, “Okay, I told you this the first time, hey, when you go to the store, do X thing. You didn’t do that? Okay, now when you go to the store, you’re going to turn to the right, and let me be sure you understand.” And you know, it’s almost like this detail becomes even more clear because we’ve got further revelation, more information, and something that’s happened in between. So, that’s just my little simple talk. Jono: Sure. And actually in that, Keith, it does make me wonder that the reason why they fell into sin, or one of the reasons why they fell into sin is because Aaron said to them, okay, so break off your rings, your gold, give me the gold, turn it into a golden calf, and I think it says, correct me if I’m wrong, but after that they wore no ornaments to show how sorry they were. Nehemia: Right. Jono: And it’s interesting that Yehovah says, "freewill offering if you will give your gold, your jewelry, your silver," whatever, and then went, “Oh, yeah, well let’s get rid of this stuff because it really got us into trouble the first time here. Here it is; I feel bad about it; here it all is, let me want to give it to You.” Do you think possibly that might have be a reason why it was so readily given? Keith: I’m so glad we’re doing this. I’ve got to spend another card because as you were talking about it, I just think about this. Aaron says, “Give me your gold for the false image.” Yehovah says, “Bring your gold for this work.” And Aaron didn’t tell the people then, “stop giving.” Jono: No. Keith: In other words, they gave him what he needed to do that, but when it was time to do the real work, it wasn’t a matter of what they needed to give. They brought it; they were stirred to give it, and there was more than they needed for the good things, for the right thing, for the Biblical thing, for the God thing. And then for the man-made attempts, you know, this is why I think that there are lot of gold image, I said it this weekend in Florida, guys hear this, well, some weekends again is that, the images that are raised up and told, "here’s what you got to do". I mean there’s got to be all kinds of manipulations and confusion, and all this nonsense, it’s just not God. It’s just not God to do that. So, I think when we know that Him stirring people and we see things happen, we should feel like that we are in step with Him. So, that’s all I have to say. Jono: Amen. And we should. We should feel that we are in step with Him. There’s a lot of people out there, just going back to verse 34, “And He has put in his heart the ability to teach,” there’s a lot of people out there teaching, or say that they are teachers, that they’re teaching, and what they’re saying isn’t what Yehovah… Keith: Doesn’t match this. Yeah. Jono: It doesn’t match. Keith: It doesn’t match His Word. Jono: It doesn’t match the Torah. That’s right; doesn’t match His Word. Keith: Amen. Nehemia: To add another aspect to that, the word for “teach,” “horot,” is from the same root as the word “Torah,” which really means “teaching,” or “instruction”. In this case, presumably, it’s not just to teach Torah; it’s to teach these different aspects of, instruct in these different aspects of, working gold, and metal, and wood, etc... Keith: And let me say something… Nehemia: …but it also has that connotation as well. Go on. Keith: You guys are going to make me say this, so I’m going to say it. One of the things that I’m struggling with, just at this particular time, and by the time people are listening to this, is that I feel so concerned about this whole idea of Torah teacher. I’m a Torah teacher; you know, I’m going to teach Torah, that’s what I do. I’m a Hebrew-roots-of-your-faith, and I teach the Torah, and yet not actually opening-up the Torah and taking the time to try to understand it or interact with its language, its history, its context. I don’t know how you can consider yourself a Torah teacher if you’re not actually interacting with Torah, unless you’re just using the Torah as a marketing tool because that’s the hot thing or that’s the thing that people are interested in or that’s the thing that I can give you the secret with. That’s what is frustrating to me. I really believe that if we’re going to open up the Tanakh and hey, I don’t care how much Hebrew Nehemia knows, or how much Methodist whatever I know, or how much you know Jono, we have to be brought into this opportunity with a heart and a spirit and a mind that gives glory to Him and to truly want to understand it the way that it was. We don’t have all the answers, but approaching it is interacting with it. And I don’t know how you can consider yourself a Torah teacher if you’re not interacting with the Torah itself. Jono: Amen. Keith: The concept of Torah is not good enough. It’s not good enough just to deal with the concept. You know, it’s a great word right now. No, it’s got to be the Torah itself. So, anyway… Jono: Amen. And so, I mean, when you turn the question back to me, Keith, how does it feel to be the host of Truth2U Radio? I can tell you this, and this is how I’ve answered it before, I feel like it is entirely my privilege that Yehovah would let me be involved in some way. And I’ll add to that; that it is an incredible blessing for me, and I know it is for so many listeners, but I’m certainly one of them, it’s an incredible blessing for me to be able to discuss Torah in such depth, but also in a light-hearted manner, but in such depth with men that I very much respect. And I appreciate the knowledge that you guys bring and the wisdom that we see within the Word and the discussion that goes on. I just want to take the opportunity to really thank you guys for what it is you do on the program. It is very much appreciated, and it is very much a blessing. Nehemia: Well, I want to thank you Jono, because I don’t know if people realize how much time you spend afterward editing out half my jokes. Not just the jokes, but really, one of the reasons Keith and I had talked about doing something like this for years, and frankly the reason we didn’t, is that neither of us has the skill to really edit something like this. And so, I want to give a round of applause. Keith: Yes. Nehemia: Everyone sitting in their living room and in their cars driving, take your hands off the wheel right now and give a round of applause for Jono. Keith: Amen. Nehemia: In all seriousness, it really is a big deal. I don’t think people appreciate how big a deal that is, and you do a masterful job of it. Not just of that, of course, but also of…I was talking to someone who you had invited on the program and this person said to me, “I don’t know what to say,” and I said, “Don’t worry, Jono will draw it out of you. That’s his amazing skill that he has.” So, you really do have a skill. Keith: Let me say this, though, I will be offering for $19.95, that which is on the editing floor, folks, if some of the stuff that Nehemia has said that you think he’s funny now, you should see what you haven’t… Nehemia: No! No bloopers! Keith: No, no, I’m going to be…$19.95, I’m going to be providing it after the Torah portions are over. And I’ve been keeping all of them, so it’s going to be hilarious. Jono: The title of the CD will be, “You Gotta Edit That Out.” Keith: No, it’s called, X-Boy… Jono: Baby-X. Keith: Baby? Baby-X. Jono: Baby-X and The Editing Room Floor. Keith: Okay. I’m sorry. Nehemia: Got to go through the editing process, yeah. Keith: Yeah. Jono: Alright. Now listen, it goes on okay…building the tabernacle, building the Ark of the Testimony, making the table for the showbread, making the golden lampstand, the altar of incense, the anointing oil and the incense, the altar for burnt offering, the bronze basin, which we were talking about as well, and the Court of the Tabernacle. There it is in a nutshell. Believe me, right now, we’re not going to go through it all in detail. Is there anything, Nehemia, that you want to pull out? Nehemia: Not really. We’ve already talked about these things, and frankly, it was kind of boring the first time. Let’s be honest, it’s a description of a structure that is never going to be built again. And look, I know every word is important, but I’ll be honest with you, I’ve read this many, many, many times, and I struggle with it because it’s like those lists of names, and here it’s even worse because a list of names…okay, that’s our heritage. So that’s why I think a lot of people will look at this and they’ll say, “Okay, well, this has a secret meaning, and the reason this is read is because it represents the blood of something, and the reason that…” you know, that’s what they come up with. Alright, that’s their approach. Trying to understand the plain meaning…like I said, I do struggle with it. But here is what I think is a Torah Pearl, but it’s a controversial topic. Can I talk about something very controversial? Jono: Please. Nehemia: Maybe the most controversial thing? Jono: Ooh! Nehemia: There are some people out there who are turning to Torah and trying to live by the Torah, and I don’t want to be judgmental, but they’re just kind of whacked out. What they’re doing is they see that Abraham had multiple wives, and Jacob had multiple wives, and Hannah, Channah, in the book of Samuel, she was part of a multiple wife situation. They’re going out and they’re practicing polygamy, and I just think they are insane, frankly. But I want to look at the Biblical side of it and forget my own personal beliefs thinking that they’re meshugganers. So, in this description, and I’ll jump back to Exodus 26, it’s repeated here in Exodus 38 or whatever, but I want to go to the original verse because it has a certain wording there that’s very significant. And can you read for me, Jono, Exodus chapter 26, verse 3? I’m going to ask Keith to read it too. So, flip to your pages or to your computer program if you have… Jono: Chapter 26, verse 3, “Five curtains shall be coupled with one another.” Nehemia: Come on! Preach it! Jono: I’m so… Nehemia: Alright, so I’m going to ask you to… Jono: I’m so intrigued where you’re going with this. Nehemia: So, what on earth does this have to do with polygamy? Five curtains! Someone say five. Jono: Five? Nehemia: So why is this important? Because in Hebrew, when it says, “coupled with one another,” the Hebrew phrase literally says, “isha el achotah,” which translates as “a woman unto her sister.” Now, when you read this verse…and why does it say, “a woman unto her sister”? Because the Hebrew word for “curtain” is feminine. And so, five of these curtains are being attached, a woman unto her sister. Well, why is that important, you ask? Because if we jump over, and I’m bringing this now because when we get to Leviticus 18, I know we’re not going to have time to talk about it because there’s so many other things. But if you go to Leviticus 18, verse 18, it says, “And a woman unto her sister, you will not take.” Now, what does that mean? Now, some people have taken this literally and say, “Well, you’re just not allowed to marry Rachel and Leah. That’s forbidden because they’re sisters.” And by the way, Jacob doing that, that was before the Torah was given. Abraham married his half-sister, his own half-sister. So, let’s not look to Abraham and Jacob for our marital model. “And a woman unto her sister, you shall not take.” Now, it talked about the curtains obviously, the one curtain wasn’t a literal sister of the other, really it’s a Hebrew idiom that means, one and another one of the same type. So “a woman under her sister” doesn’t necessarily mean a literal sister, it means two women. Jono: Oh. Nehemia: And then it goes on and it says, and this is the proof, in my opinion, the next word is “litzror.” Say “litzror.” Jono: Litzror? Nehemia: “Litzror,” means to trouble her or to vex her, “to uncover her nakedness with her in her lifetime.” So, when the first woman is dead, then you can take her sister. Now, whether that’s a literal sister or not a literal sister, that’s what we’re going to discuss right now. But you can take the sister when the first one is dead, but if it’s in her lifetime, you can’t. Now, why do I say it’s not a literal sister? For a number of reasons, but the main one is that word, to "vex", to trouble; the Hebrew word for sister-wife. And they did have sister-wives. Jono: Sure. Nehemia: Hagar was the sister-wife of Sarah, and Rachel was literally the sister- wife, in two ways, of Leah. But then so were Bilhah and Zilpah, those other two wives, they were sister-wives, even though they weren’t biological sisters, they were sister-wives. Now, the Hebrew word for sister-wife is “tzarah,” and “tzarah,” means a vexer or a troubler. Now just there you've got to know this is not something Scripture’s recommending. The fact that the Biblical Hebrew word for a second wife is a troubler, a vexer, tells you that this is not an ideal situation. And if you look at every example of it in the Tanakh, it’s always some extreme situation…usually, I should say; Jacob's is a special situation, I suppose. But with Abraham and with Channah, there were situations where there was barrenness and the other wife was taken to bear children, sort of a surrogate as we have in modern times, but with a level of technology they had back then, and I noticed Keith is completely silent. Keith: Because I have no idea how we got to this. From, we were talking… Nehemia: So, in any event… Jono: I’ll tell you what, Keith, Keith is furiously scribbling down notes… Keith: I’m waiting for him to bring the money ball here. What? Go ahead. Nehemia: Okay. So the money ball here is, the punch line is, that you could legitimately translate Leviticus 18:18…and I didn’t make this up, this is the way that some traditional Jewish commentators, not all, but some have interpreted this, “a woman and her sister-wife,” meaning not her literal sister, “but a woman and her sister-wife you shall not take to vex her, to trouble her,” meaning to be a second wife, “to uncover her nakedness upon her during her lifetime.” What that means, according to this interpretation I’m proposing, is that it’s actually forbidden to take a second wife. That is a vexation, a troubling, to the first wife. The only context in which that was even considered in ancient times, and it still caused trouble, is when there was a woman who is completely barren and they desperately wanted to have children, and so it was the woman who initiated and said, “Okay, let’s do a whole surrogate situation where you have a child through this woman that I’m giving you to take.” But this whole idea of, “I don’t like my first wife; I’m going to take a second wife,” which is what some of these whacked out people are doing out there, who are claiming to be trying to follow Torah. What they’re really doing, frankly, and I’m going to say something really controversial…I won’t even say it. Okay. Keith: Can I have a second… Nehemia: No, I’ll say it. What they’re doing is they’re looking at other religions, I won’t mention what those religions are, they are not looking at the Tanakh. Because in the Tanakh, a sister-wife is called a troubler, a vexer; it’s not something that’s recommended, and it’s only even considered under those extreme situations, and under normal circumstances, it’s completely forbidden. There. Jono: That is an absolute bombshell. Keith, have you got your sandpaper? Can you sand this; can you just smooth this over? Keith: No, I don’t want to smooth it over. I think it’s really powerful. Okay, so we’re not doing this portion anymore. Jono: Now, we bounced off…just to remind everyone, we did…alright, so we jumped from the curtains, “one to another,” which is mentioned in chapter 26, also repeated in chapter 38, is that right Nehemia? Okay, Nehemia has passed out. What’s happened to the program? Keith, your turn, is there anything…do you have a grenade you want to throw into the room and run away? Keith: No, but really in this section, we’re basically repeating. Jono: Yep, we’re basically repeating. So, we’re going to move on, because actually this week the reason why this one’s

In this episode of The Original Torah Pearls, Ki Tisa (Exodus 30:11-34:35), we begin with a passionate discussion on "Tradition" vs. Scripture, which leads to the golden calf of the Exodus event.  Who was the calf supposed to represent? There follows a fascinating discussion of God's appearance to Moses, and what we can learn about God from it.  Finally, the trio discuss the very sensitive matter of whether or not Jewish people really do have horns. https://audio.nehemiaswall.com/Torah_Pearls/Torah-Pearls-21-Exodus-09-Ki-Tisa.mp3 Download Torah Pearls Ki Tisa Transcript Torah Pearls #21 – Ki Tisa (Exodus 30:11-34:35)You are listening to The Original Torah Pearls with Nehemia Gordon, Keith Johnson, and Jono Vandor. Thank you for supporting Nehemia Gordon's Makor Hebrew Foundation. Learn more at NehemiasWall.com. Jono: It is time for Pearls from the Torah portion with Keith Johnson and Nehemia Gordon. G'day, gentlemen. Keith: G'day Nehemia: G'day! Also, g'day to Julio in Miami. Thanks for listening to the program. Jono: Julio! G'day, Julio. We don't have a lot of Julios in Australia. Nehemia: Don’t you? Jono: No. Nehemia: You probably call him Julu... Jono: Maybe we do. Nehemia: Or Jolo? Jono: Today, we are in Ki Tisa, Exodus 30, verse 11 to 34:35. This is, really, quite a long one, and we're going to have to fly through it because there's so much in there that has to be addressed. It begins like this. Are you ready? “And then Yehovah spoke to Moses saying, ‘When you take the census of the children of Israel for their number, then every man shall give a ransom for himself.’” Now, I believe we've addressed this word before. “A ransom for himself, to Yehovah, when you number them, that there may be no plague among them when you number them. This is what they are to give,” and it goes on to talk about the half-shekel. They count them from 20 years old and above, and it says in verse 15, the half-shekel is, “when you give an offering to Yehovah, to make atonement for yourselves. And you shall take the atonement money of the children of Israel and shall appoint it for the service of the Tabernacle of Meeting, that it may be a memorial for the children of Israel before Yehovah, to make atonement for yourselves.” Keith? Keith: All right. Now, when I read this, I'm thinking of the parallel. So, we're going to take up an offering for everybody in the congregation. We're then going to use the offering to maintain the tent of meeting. Is this as simple as that? Am I missing something? Jono: That's what I understand. That's what I'm understanding. Is that what you’ve got, Nehemia? Keith: Maybe in a more in-depth reading in the Hebrew, maybe some… Nehemia: Well, no, my understanding is something a little bit different. Keith: Oh? Nehemia: The part of the bigger picture here, for me, is 2 Samuel, chapter 24, where David actually carries out a census… Jono: Yeah? Nehemia: …and doesn't do this, and it actually brings a plague upon the people. My understanding here is that, basically, we're not supposed to be counting ourselves; that God gave the blessing to Israel. He said, "You'll be like the sand in the sea and like the stars." To count the nation is kind of saying, "Okay, I don't trust your blessing. I've got to check it out for myself." So, to offset that, he gives us this option of, okay, well, if everybody pays a half a shekel, then you can count up the half shekels. And David doesn't do that. He just counts the people outright because that's easier. Keith: Wait, wait, wait. Nehemia: Not everybody necessarily has a half shekel, and so that actually brings a plague on the people. That's a pivotal event in the history of Israel, where the angel comes to bring the plague. And it stops over Jerusalem and he says, "Okay. This is the place that I've chosen to place my name forever," meaning, in the wake of that event. Jono: Sure. Nehemia: So, it's actually kind of significant in the history of Israel. Keith: Wait, I'm missing something here. If I'm listening, I'm like, "Well, wait. Which one is it?" So, do they count the people or not count the people? It says here, “you count the people and you pay.” Jono: From 20 years old and above, right? Keith: So, do you count them, or do you not count them? Nehemia: They did this in the book of Numbers, as well. They did this in the book of Numbers a couple of times. Keith: Okay. So, I'm talking about right here, so is this not a command? Nehemia: Well, I don't know if it's a command, but it starts off saying, “when you count the people,” it's not saying you're required to count them. Jono: Okay. Nehemia: It’s not saying, "You must count the people so that we get our money." It doesn't say that. Keith: So, you mean…I was going to be able to use this in offerings. What are you talking about? Nehemia: I want to know how many are in the church. Jono: You put your understanding there. Keith: I’m going to start counting people and I want a half a shekel. Jono: Yeah. Well, a half a shekel is not cheap, right? And so, this is what I'm wondering, though; the shekel is to make an atonement for yourselves. It's atonement money, right? “To make an atonement for yourselves,” is what it says. How do we understand that, Keith? Keith: I'll be honest with you, guys. When I read this, and I do know about the passage in Samuel, and so, what I guess the insight is, okay, he counted without asking for the shekel or including the half shekel. You know, I'm still struggling with a little bit of the parallel. So, if I were to read this passage and say, "Okay, look. We're going to count everyone here and everyone is going to give a certain amount," half a shekel according to this, "and here's what that half a shekel is going to do for you." Or, is it the shekel or the counting saying that this is atonement? It's a ransom for his life at the time he's counted, "then no plague will come upon them." And so, it's an offering to Yehovah, but then it is used for the service of the tent of meeting. Jono: Yes. Keith: So, let's say there was no counting. Jono: Then there'd be no shekels. Keith: There would be no shekels. Jono: I guess Nehemia: We better count then. Jono: I guess we better count. “Atonement money,” there it is. It goes on to talk about the bronze laver. Now, this is basically a bathtub for Aaron, right? I mean, this is where he gets to wash his feet and wash his hands, and it's a statute forever, right? Nehemia: It’s more like a sink, I’d suppose, or a basin. Jono: More like a sink, okay. Nehemia: It's not really a bathtub. Jono: It's a bronze basin. Keith: I think one thing that is interesting is verse 20, which says, "Whenever they enter the tent of meeting, they shall wash with water so that they will not die.” And just this idea of, and maybe we can talk a little bit about this. This is just as well to do it here, which I wanted to bring up, just this idea of the washing that would take place as people were on their way up into the Temple. When I was in Israel 10 years ago, and I don't remember how much earlier it was that it was uncovered, but on the southern side of the wall, Nehemia, is where we kind of had our first, although, I like to call it our "Come to Jesus" meeting. Jono: Oh, yeah? Keith: We were walking from the tunnels and then it was time to go to this wonderful excavation on the southern side of the Temple, but one of the things that really is interesting, that really brought a certain level of…I can just say my eyes being opened, were all of these, what I called, whirlpools. Nehemia: They weren’t whirlpools. Keith: They were like whirlpools. Nehemia: Well, they usually call them mikvahs. Keith: They call them mikvahs, of course. Nehemia: Because, look, they didn’t really have running water, so if you were going to wash yourself before you went into the Temple, the most convenient place to put a facility would be right outside the Temple. So, there are these steps that lead up to the Temple and literally, on either side and all over the place, are these baths of water where people would go and immerse themselves, dating from the period of the Second Temple. Those weren't necessarily for Aaron, meaning for the Kohanim, for the descendants of Aaron. Keith: Right. Nehemia: It was for anybody who was coming to the Temple. Jono: Sure. Nehemia: This facility that we're reading about now, the “kior,” the basin, that was actually directly at the entrance of the Temple itself. Whereas, this was at the entrance of the Temple compound, kind of like the outer wall. So, they would wash themselves, first in the bath outside the outer wall of the Second Temple, and then, when they actually got to the entrance itself, then they would wash their hands and their feet. Jono: Right Nehemia: Meaning, it was an extra level of washing. Jono: Yeah. Okay. And so obviously, the concept of washing in this ritualistic way to make sure that one is clean is extremely important, as you pointed out, Keith, for Aaron, he has to wash in this bowl here, so that he does not die. I mean, that’s like last week; we were talking about the bells that he has to wear when he approaches, and when he leaves, so that they make a sound so that he does not die. There's a small number of things that he wants to get right so that he doesn’t die. Keith: Yeah. The ones that say, not die, those are the ones that…you might want to highlight those. Jono: Just go through the list before you go near. The next one is…now this one's interesting to me. This one, in my tradition, where I've come from, I've often encountered claims of this oil. People have made this oil and they have it for sale for various... Nehemia: What? Jono: You've never encountered this? Are you serious? Nehemia: What are you talking about? It says here that you’re not supposed to do that. Jono: I know what it says. I don't understand it myself. Hang on, no, but are you telling me you've never encountered that, Nehemia? Nehemia: No, of course not. Jono: Oh. Keith, have you? Okay, so this is the holy anointing oil. Keith: I've encountered it. And when Nehemia's sleeping in the hotel room, sometimes I anoint him with this oil, and he just doesn’t know it. Nehemia: Oy. Keith: Okay. No, I know about this oil. And I'd never do that. But the thing that's kind of interesting about it, not so much on the issue of the selling of it, but there are people who claim to have the exact mixing of what the anointing oil is like, and then they put different fragrances…you know…this one is for this and this one is for that. And so, I have seen that, and there is something about smelling and having the anointing oil in your hand. And I'm not specifically talking about this, but in my tradition, there definitely would be a time where you would anoint someone with oil. And what kind of oil would you have? You certainly wouldn't go and get Crisco or anything like that. You would want to have something that seemed to be like the anointing oil that they had in the temple. So, I guess, this is where that comes from. Jono: Yeah. Well, it is interesting because it goes on to outline what the anointing oil is, and in verse 32 and on, “It shall not be poured on man’s flesh; nor shall you make any other like it, according to its composition. It is holy, and it shall be holy to you. Whosoever compounds any like it, or whoever puts any of it on an outsider, shall be cut off from his people.” But…I'm not kidding. I have seen people selling what they claim to be the holy anointing oil according to these ingredients. And it blows my mind. Keith: I'd like to ask a question if I can, I mean…you have that tradition. For Nehemia, is there any tradition that you are aware of, that you come from, where there's any use of oil? Nehemia: Use of oil? You mean like for lamps? Keith: No, no, no, for human beings. Nehemia: That's the only use of oil. No, not that I’m aware of. No. Keith: So then, let's just do this for a second, if we can, guys. So, it’s speaking not to use this oil for the body, yet when they would anoint the king, they would then… Nehemia: Yeah, the king and the high priest, but not for a normal person. Keith: For the king and the high priest. Okay. So, you don't know of any other time where this…so the New Testament idea of anointing with oil… Jono: Oh, look, Keith, let me tell you…I mean, I don't know about you, but in the tradition that I came from, we used to have…the pastor would…I'm not kidding, it almost makes me cringe to tell you this on air, but they would put a cross on our forehead, as if that was some sort of mystical… and I think what they used was olive oil…I think. But if there was someone who was not feeling well, they’ve got a cold or there's some sort of issue, then we're going to pray for them, and let's anoint them with oil. They get their thumb, and they dip it in the olive oil, and they make a little T on their forehead as if that was some mystical sort of superstitious kind of…I better not get on a roll, we better move on. Okay. Keith: Well, the reason I asked Nehemia the question is because, for those of us that do come from that tradition, the idea was that basically…let me just read something here. In James, chapter 5, it says, “Is anyone of you in trouble? He should pray. Is anyone happy? Let them sing songs of praise. Is anyone of you sick? He should call the elders of the church to pray over him and anoint him with oil in the name of the Lord. And the prayer offered in faith…" Jono: And that’s what they based it on, yeah. Keith: Yeah. So, the reason I asked that question was because, reading backward, you know, like from where I come from, they'd say, "Okay. Here's the important book, the back of the book, learn this first and then apply it where you can in the other part of the book, which is the bigger part of the book, the Old Testament they called it…but, when I read this, going forward, then all of a sudden, I'm asking, "So which one is it?" According to the Tanakh here, the Torah portion that we're in, this anointing oil, this oil that would be used, would not be something that they would say, "Okay, look, we've got some leftover," you know? Jono: Is anyone sick? Keith: Someone sick? Jono: So, what you’re saying, Keith… Keith: Let’s put some… Jono: Yeah, “Let’s put some…” So, what you're saying is there's no…Nehemia, as far as we can tell there's no precedent in the Tanakh for such an action? Nehemia: No, definitely not. Keith: Wow. Okay. Jono: Interesting. There's some homework for the listeners. If they're not sure about that one, we'd love to hear from them. But that's very interesting. And then the same applies to the incense. There’s a particular type of incense, full of stuff that I can't pronounce, but in verse 37, it says, "But as for the incense," and it says pretty much the same thing, "you shall not make anything like it for yourselves, according to its composition. It shall be to you holy for Yehovah. Whoever makes it, or even to smell it, he shall be cut off from his people.” Keith: Now, I want to stop here, again... Jono: Sure. Keith: …and just kind of deal with this a little bit in terms of when I visited over in Israel. You know, always the idea is…and I've never, until reading this portion slowly like this, do I get to that last verse that says in verse 38, "Whoever makes anything like it to enjoy its fragrance must be cut off from the people." And yet, I would find someone who says, "Look, this is the actual smell of the incense that's going to be…so bring it home, and look, this is the actual anointing oil that's made with the exact ingredients from the Temple, and here's how much it is.” And I think the thing that kind of throws me off, again, is not reading from the back to the front, but reading the front going forward, those seem to be pretty serious commands. Whoever makes perfume like it and whoever puts it on anyone other than a priest must be cut off. “Whoever makes any like it to enjoy its fragrance must be cut off.” I'm like, "Wow." Jono: That's really serious stuff. Keith: I mean that's pretty serious stuff there. Nehemia: You don't want to mess with that stuff. Jono: No. No, you don't. Keith: No. Jono: You really, really don't. And yet, some people seem to be. Keith: Well, luckily, we don't have the exact stuff. And maybe, that's the deal. Jono: Perhaps. Nehemia: Well, what is interesting is what these different ingredients are. And I'm just going to be very brief because we got so much more to talk about in the upcoming chapters and in this portion. I mean, this is one of the “wow, oh, my gosh”. Anyway, what I would do is throw out a challenge to people to verse 23, to go look up what some of those ingredients are. Some of them are obvious like “kinnamon,” which is cinnamon, and “mar” is myrrh. Well, anyway, people should go and look those things up. You'll find it's actually quite interesting what some of the suggestions are for at least one of those ingredients. And I don't need to say anymore. Jono: Brilliant. Okay, so you've whet their appetite. There's some homework for the listeners. In verse 3 of chapter 31, Yehovah talks about those whom he has appointed, skilled artists for woodcarvings and jewel settings and all sorts of things, and he says, "I have filled them with the Spirit of Elohim in wisdom…” Nehemia: Whoo! Come on. Jono: “…and in understanding, in knowledge and in all manner of workmanship.” Nehemia: Wait. This is the Tanach? Wait, why are you reading for me from the New Testament? What the…? “Filled with the Spirit”? Jono: Keith? Nehemia: Are you sure that's in the Old Testament? What? Jono: There it is. Keith: I'm telling you. There's something about… Nehemia: No, I thought you guys…Keith, what’s going on? Keith: No, it says, “I have filled him with the Spirit of God.” It even capitalizes it in NIV. Jono: There it is. Nehemia: Oh, it's capitalized just like in the Hebrew, right? Keith: Yeah. Nehemia: And we don’t have capital letters. Jono: That’s right. But also, it talks about these guys all the way to verse 12, when…and all of a sudden, Keith, His hallowed times, right? The Sabbath Law, “And Yehovah spoke to Moses, saying, ‘Speak to the children of Israel, saying, Surely My Sabbaths you shall keep, for it is a sign between Me and you throughout your generations, that you may know that I am Yehovah who sanctifies you. You shall keep the Sabbath, therefore, for it is holy to you. Everyone who profanes it shall surely be put to death.’” Wow, so for anyone… Keith: Well, can I do something? I just need to do one thing, guys. Jono: Yeah? Keith: If I can just spend a card here, as I like to say. This is a verse that really jumped off the page. I use the word “jumped off the page”, because, as I was thinking about what we discussed in previous portions regarding all of these wonderful things that are going to be created and being shown to Moses, and then he gets to the nitty-gritty, like I like to say, "Okay, who's going to do the work? Who's going to do it?" And there are these two wonderful names of these two people who are going to do it. They're going to have the Spirit of God, as Nehemia just mentioned, and you, Jono. But then, the verse that hit me more than anything is this, “Moreover, I have appointed these two to help him. I have given skill to all the craftsmen to make everything I've commanded you." Now, here's why I had to stop. This is my little Torah Pearl here. So, when he makes the commandment, he then gives the ability to fulfill it. Jono: Amen. Keith: Like he didn't say, "Hey, go make this, but you don't know how,” "Go do this, but you'll never understand it.” The things that he wants us to do, here in this situation, he says, "Look. I've given skill to all the craftsmen to make everything I have commanded you.” And then I started thinking about some things that I’d just confronted in my own life here in the last couple of weeks, where I called Nehemia and I said, "Hey, Nehemia. Listen, I'm a little overwhelmed about this thing that we're working on, and this thing…" And then, after reading this verse, I realized something different. If we’re being called to a thing, then the one who's calling us will provide us with the ability to do it. Jono: Amen. Keith: And that's the thing that kind of jumped off the page for me; that there are people that have been called to do certain things, and when you look at it, it must be overwhelming, but he says, "I'm going to give you that ability." He gave them the ability to meet the commandments. So, may it be in our lives. Amen? Jono: Amen. Keith: Yes. Nehemia: And you know what the principle is here; you know how I always like to say, when God provides vision, he always makes provision. Keith: Ladies and gentlemen, Nehemia has really left the farm. Jono, he's taking my material now. But the truth is, this verse really gives me a confirmation on my little statement, "With vision comes provision," because the vision is the Temple. The provision is, "Here's the gold and the silver," but guess what? I’ve even given some guys the ability to do it exactly the way that I wanted it done. Jono: Amen. Keith: Amazing. Nehemia: Wow. Jono: Amen. Nehemia: Now, talking about Shabbat, I’ve got to get a little bit technical here. Can we do that? Jono: Oh, please. Keith: Yes. Nehemia: Okay. So, I grew up with this tradition concerning the Sabbath, concerning Shabbat in the Orthodox world, that there are 39 specific actions that are considered labor, that are considered work, and those are the things that you're forbidden to do. For example, one of them is sewing, and then another action is tearing, because part of sewing is that you have to tear. And then this was applied to other situations, not just in our clothing as part of the sewing act, but to tear anything. Quite literally, you're not allowed to tear toilet paper, and the very devout Orthodox Jews will actually… Jono: Oh, my goodness. They pre-tear? Nehemia: They'll pre-tear the toilet paper before the Shabbat. In Israel, you can actually buy pre-torn toilet paper. I’m not making this up, and it has a Kosher stamp on it. I'm not making it up. Now, why do I mention this here? Because it all comes from one little word in verse 13, and so I'm going to ask Keith and Jono to each read from their translations verse 13. I’ll stop…just read the beginning of it. Jono: Hang on. Can I just get this right, Nehemia? What you're about to tell us is why…I mean, I've heard of Messianic people pre-tearing, okay, and it's just… Nehemia: I don’t know anything about the Messianic. I’m talking about the Orthodox Jews that I grew up with, that we were taught that you're not allowed to tear on Shabbat. Where it comes from, again, is that you're not allowed to sew, and part of sewing is tearing. Jono: Okay, then. Nehemia: I don't sew, but that’s what they tell me; that in order to sew, first you have to tear. And so, therefore, you can't tear toilet paper. Jono: And the secret to this is in verse 13, is what you're telling me, right? Here it comes. Nehemia: Now the context here is, we just talked about the tabernacle… Jono: Yes. Nehemia: …with all those details of how to make the tabernacle. Jono: Sure. Nehemia: What the rabbis say is, in the creation, in the building, in the maintenance of the tabernacle, there were 39 actions that were done. And those were the 39 things forbidden on Shabbat, the 39 things done in the building and the maintenance of the tabernacle. Now, how do they connect the tabernacle to Shabbat? What's the connection? You know, when I read about Shabbat, it says, work six days and rest on the seventh, which I think is kind of intuitive if you actually work. So, what does it mean? And especially…really, if you think about it, up until 200 years ago, 98% of all human beings in every country in the world were farmers. There was an agrarian society before the industrial revolution. Most people in the world were farmers, and so what did it mean not to work? It meant, don't go and plow your fields and all of the things you have to do with maintaining a farm. Well, you're a farmer, aren't you, Jono? Jono: Oh, kind of. Nehemia: Of some sorts? Jono: I'm a hobby farmer of some sort, yeah. Nehemia: Okay, maybe it doesn’t apply. Well, they weren’t hobby farmers. They were basically living off the land. And what it's telling you is, those chores and all that work that you do during the six days, don't do those on Shabbat. The rabbis took a very technical approach to it. They said no, these 39 actions related to the tabernacle are forbidden and nothing else is, biblically, at least, forbidden. Rabbis may forbid it, but it's not biblically forbidden. The example I was always given is that, one of the things that's forbidden is you can't carry on the Sabbath. Specifically, you can't carry from a private domain to a public domain; meaning, I can't take a load of things, you know, a backpack on my back, and walk from my house out into the street, which is the private to the public. And it's not just that the backpack that may be heavy; they also then say I can't even carry a key from my house out into the public domain. I remember my father, growing up, what he would do is, he had a key that was actually a piece of jewelry. It was a clip-on on his tie, or it was a pin that he would pin to his shirt, or he would clip it onto his tie, and that's how he was allowed to carry a key. It wasn't there for carrying; he was wearing it. That was the thinking. Jono: Oh, man. Nehemia: But you're not allowed to take a handkerchief and stick it in your pocket, because that is work on the Sabbath for a rabbi. However, I was taught that if you have a three-story house, you're allowed to take your couch on your back and carry it up and down the stairs all day long, and that’s not work on Shabbat. Jono: You are kidding me. Nehemia: But carrying a handkerchief outside on the street? No, this was the example I was told, that biblically, strictly speaking, you're allowed to do the carrying of the sofa, but not the handkerchief. Now, all of it comes from verse 13. Jono: All right. Now, I'm just going to read, again, this is the New King James, “Speak also to the children of Israel, saying: ‘Surely My Sabbaths you shall keep, for it is a sign between Me…’” Nehemia: So, “Surely my Sabbaths you shall keep.” Jono: Very good. Nehemia: OK. That's a correct translation, by the way. Keith, what do you have? Keith: “You must observe my Sabbaths.” Nehemia: Is there a word before “you”? Keith: No. “Say to the Israelites, ‘You must observe my Sabbaths.’” Nehemia: Oh. Okay. Keith: “This will be a sign." Nehemia: So, here's the literal translation, “And you speak to the children of Israel saying, 'But my Sabbaths you will keep.’” So, the rabbis took that word "but", which is the Hebrew word “ach,” and they said, "Well, ‘but’ is a contrast." What is it contrasting to? It's contrasting to the whole section that came before, which was the whole issue of the tabernacle, the building of the tabernacle and the sacrifice and the maintenance. Jono: Aha. Nehemia: So, what that means is, anything that was done in relation to the tabernacle, do, in that context, "but keep my Shabbat," put those actions in the context of Shabbat. That's their explanation. The problem is the word “ach,” Say ach. Jono: Ach. Keith: Ach. Nehemia: Ach. Very good. So “ach,” which means "but," but also means "surely." And so, Jono, your translation is actually correct. Jono: Woo-hoo! Nehemia: In the context here, this more likely means "surely" and is not really a contrast, because probably, if it wanted a contrast, it would say “aval”. Anyway, that's a different discussion. The point here is that, even if you say it means "but,” what does that have to do with carrying a handkerchief out onto the street on a Shabbat? I mean, good grief. Keith: So here let me say this. And one of the things that's been so awesome about doing this with Jono and Nehemia, fans and those who are listening, is that we have these different perspectives. So, this perspective, and Nehemia is just bringing this, you know, which Jono wouldn't have known, I wouldn't have known what the actual application would be. So, here's the issue, and I find this happening all the time. Nehemia will say, "Well, in my tradition, here's what we would do." Now, Jono would say, "Really? You're kidding." And then I might say, "Oh, you're kidding." So, here's where the rub comes. The rub comes…let me use the example of the anointing oil. I have this tradition of the anointing oil. This is what you're supposed to do, and I've gotten it right from the authority of James in the New Testament, where he says if someone's sick, you anoint them with oil. And Nehemia's like, "You're kidding me, right? People actually do this?” So, where the sensitivity has to be, is that the people that are listening…I mean, this is what's so powerful about having these different perspectives. So Nehemia can be the one that can say, "Here's what we experienced", and I'm kind of sitting here and thinking, "Man!" So then, you have these people who make the judgment about the Orthodox because, look at what they're doing et cetera, et cetera, et cetera... But, what's behind it? What's the attempt behind it? And that's just something I'm bringing up because I think there are some parts of this, like, okay, we want to keep the Sabbath and so here's what we've done. Now, regardless of what the end result is, what was the attempt? And I guess that's my point; I want to be sensitive to the attempt, but then I also want to get it right biblically. So, what's the attempt for the anointing oil? We want to help somebody who is sick. But then, what's the biblical issue? What's the attempt for the Shabbat? We don't want to break the Sabbath, and maybe we want to control people. Who knows what the issues are, but, again, we want… Nehemia: We want to sell toilet paper. Keith: Exactly. It's a sensitive issue because, when I'm over in Israel, or I'm in an Orthodox community or an Orthodox home and I see people having two different ovens and the meat and the spoon and the milk and all these things, and then I know the biblical issue, being different, there's still this issue of sensitivity because I'm like, what is the attempt? What are they trying to do? And I've got to just bring this example real quick with you guys while we're here. I was meeting, with Nehemia in Jerusalem, with a lady that helped us in the book, “A Prayer to Our Father.” She is a, I guess I could use the word, correct me if I'm wrong, Nehemia, she would come from an Orthodox background, in terms of how she operates within her home. Nehemia: Ultra-Orthodox. Jono: Ultra-Orthodox? Keith: Ultra-Orthodox. Thank you. Okay. So, ultra-Orthodox. And so, she was taking me around, Nehemia left me there for a little while he went to go and do something. I can't remember what it was that he had to go do, but I couldn’t go with him. So, he left me at the apartment, and so I was asking her about her tradition and what she was doing, and she took me into the kitchen. Now, I just want to give you guys this example, and I know that we've got a big, big section here, but she took me into the kitchen, and she started explaining about why there were different ovens and different utensils and all of that. My first response would be, I just wish she knew what the scriptures actually said, and this isn't necessarily necessary. But what I was appreciative about was what she was trying to do. She was giving me a glimpse into her life and her attempt to keep that which she believed to be Scripture. Jono: Sure. Keith: And that’s kind of shifted things for me. So, go ahead, Nehemia. Nehemia: You know, it’s interesting, because I’ve had this conversation with a number of ultra-Orthodox Jews, and what it comes down to is they say, okay, what you're saying may be a correct interpretation, but what they'll say is, rabbis who are far greater than either you or me have interpreted it the way that we do it. And for us, this is about submitting to their authority. We believe God gave them the authority to interpret Scripture and you know, your interpretation may be correct, it may be the literal meaning, the contextual meaning, the historical meaning, but what our rabbis say is what we're bound by. For them, it comes down to a question of authority. Now, for me, it comes down to a question of authority, but to a question of truth. If I see what I believe to be the truth in the Scripture, I don't care what anybody has to say other than the word of God. And their position is, "Well, that's kind of arrogant of you. We have these great rabbis that tell us that this is what it means, and this is how we're supposed to keep it." So, really, it's a question of authority versus truth, and I can see their perspective. You know, I love this example from the movie, “Fiddler on the Roof.” You know, the movie, “Fiddler on the Roof,” or the musical, is actually metaphor. A fiddler on a roof…it's a very difficult. The roofs were on an angle, and so to balance on top of the roof is a very difficult thing to do. If you're fiddling, it's even more difficult because you're moving all the time, and so you're liable to fall off. And that's a metaphor for what happens when you don't follow the authority and the tradition of the rabbis. You're like a fiddler on the roof. That's actually the origin of the name. So, the point of that metaphor is that you can cast off the chains of tradition, but then you're in a dangerous situation… Keith: Right. Nehemia: …because you don't have the tradition to guide you, and I embrace that. I say, "You're right." Okay. I won’t have the tradition to guide me. I'll be just like Abraham who walked down into the desert and didn't know where he was going, didn't have a GPS, didn’t have a map; he just followed the voice of God. Now, look, God isn’t talking to me every single second telling me what to do, but he speaks to me through His word, through His Scripture. I'd rather be guided by Scripture than by the traditions of men. I don't care if I'm out in the desert not knowing what's over the next sand dune. I'm following my map; my GPS is the word of God. Keith: Now, let me say this… Jono: Amen. Keith: No, Jono? Jono: But there's the sensitivity between the two views, isn't it? Because we want to be true, specifically, to what Scripture says and exercise our understanding as best as we really understand it. But we also want to be sensitive to those who have grown up in a whole lifetime of being told, this is what has to be done and this is our tradition regardless. Keith? Keith: Let me say where in my tradition, Nehemia could…here's where that same exact thing that Nehemia just said, which is really a powerful thing, but if taken out of context…in my history, in my background, we have the guy who says, I was walking in the street and I heard a voice, and it said to start The Truth of The Word denomination, and I've got myself a corner store. I've opened it up to my church. It's called Truth of the Word, a corner store and a corner church. And then I've got people come in. So, someone says to him, "So tell me, how do you know what the Scripture means?" He says, "The Holy Spirit told me exactly what the Scripture says." Jono: Oh. Keith: And I've actually had this happen, where I said to him, "Have you gotten a chance to check what the language, history, and context is?" He says, "I don't need that. I've got the Holy Spirit. I'm filled with the Spirit of God, and this is what it means." And so, what's powerful about what Nehemia is saying is that, some people would take that quote, apply it into the other situation, and say, "Okay. I've heard what the word of God says for me." The thing that's different about my friend, Nehemia, is that he's also asking these questions; what does the language actually say? What is the context? What is the history surrounding it? There are issues that he's bringing to the table so he can say, "Yes, you know, I've heard it for myself and I'm not going with the rabbinical understanding." But this is also a person who studies to show himself approved regarding dividing the Word of God, understanding the Word of God. And what I struggle with, with the guy on the corner is, he says, "I also have the Spirit and I also have such-and-such. I don't know how to read, and I didn't even know that the Bible wasn’t written in anything other than the King James English. And therefore, I come with the authority of my office and my searching, and here's what the truth is. And now I've got people following me and I'm their rabbi." And see, that's the tension, I think, with this whole issue. So, this is why we pray this prayer every time we get on the radio; that we do want the Spirit of God to open our eyes to see the truth of the Torah. What does it say? So that's why I love having Nehemia be the one to pray that prayer, because we're asking for the inspiration, but we also want the information. And that gives us the revelation; that's me preaching. So Nehemia, can you please… Jono: Amen. Keith: …pray the prayer? Nehemia: Amen. Yehovah, Avinu shebashamayim, gal eneinu ve-nabi-tah niphlaot mi-Torahteha. Yehovah our Father in heaven, uncover our eyes that we may see the wonderful hidden things of your Torah. Keith: Amen. Jono: Amen. Nehemia: Amen. Keith: Thank you, Nehemia. Jono: Amen. Thanks, guys. Keith: We need that as we go to the next section that’s for sure Nehemia: Whoa, next section? Whoa. Jono: Hang on. Nehemia: Are you kidding me? Jono: I was going to go to verse… Nehemia: …what are you talking about? Jono: …17 and 18. Can I do that? Can I do verse 17 and 18? Nehemia: Yeah, please, 17 and 18. Absolutely. Jono: All right. So, “it is a sign,” Nehemia: Verse 17, anyway. Jono: “It is a sign,” this is Ezekiel, what’s this, 20 verse 9 and 20 right, as well? “It is a sign between Me and the children of Israel forever; for in six days Yehovah made the heavens and the earth, and on the seventh day He rested and was refreshed,’” I’ve got. Nehemia: You’ve got to give me the opportunity to preach here for a minute if that's okay? Jono: Please. Nehemia: I know we're running out of time. Keith: Please. Jono: No, no it's okay. We got time. Nehemia: We’re in the first chapter and 33 and 34, that's the big stuff. But I've just got to preach here for a minute, because I think this is extremely significant. You know, I was having this discussion with someone, he was actually a Christian, and he was talking to me about how, for his people, the Shabbat was the old law and it's done away with. And I thought, that was really interesting because Shabbat doesn't actually start at Mount Sinai. Shabbat starts with the creation of the world, and he says that here. Jono: Amen. Nehemia: He says, you just read it, "For in six days Yehovah made the heavens and the earth," and let me read this, an alternative translation here, literally, in verse 17, "Between Me and between the children of Israel,” or the sons of Israel, “it is a sign le-olam,” Now, “le-olam” literally means, or it means forever, but the literal meaning is the word “olam,” which is the universe, for the world. So, you could legitimately translate this, “It is a sign for the world, for in six days Yehovah made the heavens and the earth, and on the seventh day He rested and was refreshed.” What it’s saying, is why it’s a sign for the world, for the universe, because it was made in six days. So, the Shabbat is not just for Israel, but it's for the entire universe, for the entire world as a sign. There's this great passage in Isaiah, chapter 56, which, I'm going to ask Keith to help me preach this, but in verse 1 Isaiah says, “Thus says Yehovah, keep judgment and do righteousness for my salvation is close to coming and my righteousness to be revealed.” Verse 2, “Blessed is the man who does it, and the son of man who grabs hold of it, who keeps the Shabbat from desecrating it and keeps his hand from doing all evil.” Now, if you're a Jew, an Israelite, and you hear Isaiah preaching these words, you know he's talking to you because, what did we just read? Shabbat, the Sabbath, a sign between me and God, in the context, and his children of Israel. Was that for a temporary period? No. He says in the previous verse, do the Shabbat according to the generations, “brit olam,” an eternal covenant, or a covenant of the world, as well. But then, in verse 3, Isaiah then addresses the Gentiles. He says, "Let not the son of the Gentile who joins himself to Yehovah say, 'Yehovah has surely separated me from his people,'" meaning the Gentile hears about the Shabbat and he says, "Well, I'm not really connected to that because God has a separate category for me. I'm not really part of that. I may have joined the God of Israel, but I'm not part of the Sabbath, which is the sign between God and His people. I'm not part of that," is what the Gentile would think. And he goes back to the Gentile, in verse 6, and he says, "And the sons of the Gentiles who joined themselves to Yehovah, to serve Him and to love the name of Yehovah…" can I get an Amen, Keith? Jono: Amen. Keith: Amen. Nehemia: "…to be his servants. All those who keep the Shabbat from desecrating it and grab hold of my covenant, I will bring them to my holy mountain, and I will make them rejoice in my house of prayer. Their burnt offerings and their peace offerings shall be accepted upon my altar, for my house shall be called a house of prayer for all peoples." So here, He's speaking to the Gentiles and He's saying, if you love His name, if you grab hold of His covenant, if you keep the Shabbat and you serve the God of Israel and join yourself to Him, don't say you're not part of His people; don't separate yourself from His people. And he will bring you to His holy mountain and you will have a place there. That's significant, because there's another verse in Leviticus, which some people interpreted, and still do, to mean that the Gentiles can't even bring sacrifices, that they're not even welcome in the temple; another verse in Deuteronomy as well. What he's saying is, if they join Him and grab hold of the Covenant, then they will be welcomed in the temple; in his place. Keith: Amen. Jono: Amen. Keith: Amen. And I think that what's powerful about this, for me, is, that's why I become more sensitive. I become more sensitive to the different backgrounds of these different people. And I'm going to use this example because, for me, I don't claim the Jewish bloodline, though some people would say, you're Ephraim, and here's where we think you're from the tribe of whatever. I'm hoping they'll call me from the Tribe of Levi so I can start getting the tithe, but no one's actually made the declaration. Nehemia: No, I associate financial managers with you. I know you're really Jewish. Keith: But the point is, what's so beautiful about this was, when we're reading this, and what's beautiful about the Torah portion, and we're dealing with this section of Shabbat; if I would have been reading this 11 years ago, I would rush over this very quickly and say, "that's for the Jew." Now, as a result of having an encounter of these three things: His time, His Torah and His name, this has become a part of my life. This is a part of my family's life. To enjoy the Sabbath, to have permission from the Creator of the universe to say, "Listen. Take a break." I mean, it's overwhelming to even talk about it, but it's amazing that this is what He does, and that I get a chance to do that as a foreigner. I don't have to claim bloodlines to David. I don't have to claim bloodlines to whomever. Nehemia: Don’t make fun of me. Keith: No, I’m not making fun of you. Jono: It’s on his mother’s side; it doesn’t count. Nehemia: It doesn’t. Okay. So, I got to point out one thing here, which I think is really interesting. In the writings of the early Christians, there's this concept they call Jewish service, and it actually devolves, kind of, into Jewish servitude; that the Jews essentially became slaves of the different Kings of Europe. But the original concept was, and this is from a Christian perspective, obviously, really a Catholic perspective; their position was that the Jews as a people serve a function for them as Christians, and the function that the Jews serve is that, at the time, they were trying to convince all these pagans about their religion. In the pagan mind, if something wasn't ancient, it couldn't be true. And they would come to the pagans and say, "Well, we believe that Jesus fulfilled this prophecy and that prophecy." And the pagans would say, "What prophecy?" And they'd say, "A prophecy in the ancient writings of the Jews." Well, everybody knew who the Jews were. The very existence, the continuing existence of the Jews proved that these prophecies were ancient. I think there's something to that in the sense that…not related to Catholicism, of course; but in the sense that when God says, it is a sign between me and Israel, a sign forever for the world, that God created the world, I think that there's something really powerful there. The fact that the people of Israel have continued to observe the Shabbat every seven days, every week, going back, you can look at ancient history documents and you find out, going back in an unbroken chain, week after week, year after year, millennia after millennia, every single week, they continue to observe the Shabbat… Keith: Amen. Nehemia: …in this way or in that way, tearing toilet paper, not tearing toilet paper. That's not really so important for this issue, which is that the continual observance of the Shabbat, whether it's correct according to the nuances or not, is a testimony that Yehovah… Keith: Amen. Nehemia: …the Creator of the universe, actually did create the universe in six days and rested on the seventh. Jono: Amen. Keith: Amen. Nehemia: That it’s not just mythology, it's not just a story made up… Keith: Amen. Nehemia: …like many of the other ancient pagan myths. This isn't like Zeus coming down and having a golden shower on Lydia and creating Hercules. This is genuine history, that God created the world in six days and rested on the seventh. Keith: Amen. Jono: Amen. Nehemia: The observance of Shabbat by Israel to this very day is testimony to that. Jono: Yes. Nehemia: Can I get an Amen? Keith: Amen. Jono: Amen. Keith: Thank you, brother. Jono: There it is. That's the Sabbath. Now we're arriving at chapter 32. But before we do, the last verse of chapter 31, “Yehovah gave Moses two tablets of the Testimony, tablets of stone, written with the finger of God.” Now, we read a little bit later on, there's writing on both sides of each tablet. What is on it, Nehemia? Nehemia: That's a good question. Well, I mean, we're told what's on it is the Ten Commandments. Jono: The Ten Words. Nehemia: Asseret HaDvarim, the Ten Words, the 10 commandments. Actually, the word that we translate as “words,” “davar,” is really the Ten Matters, the Ten Issues. It's not literally Ten Words because obviously, the Ten Commandments are much longer than ten words. Jono: Sure. Nehemia: So truly, the Ten Issues, the Ten Matters, that we translate in English as the Ten Commandments. But let's revisit that when we get to… Jono: We're going to get to that eventually. “Now when the people saw that Moses delayed coming down from the mountain, the people gathered together to Aaron, and said to him, “Come, make us gods that shall go before us; for as for this Moses, the man who brought us up out of the land of Egypt, we do not know what has become of him.” And Aaron said to them, “Break off your golden earrings which are in the ears of yourselves, your wives, your sons, your daughters, and bring them to me.” So, “All the people broke off their golden earrings which were in their ears and brought them to Aaron. And he received the gold from their hand, and he fashioned it with an engraving tool, and made a molded calf.” There it is. “And they said…” I’ve got, “This is your god, O Israel, that brought you out of the land of Egypt! So, when Aaron saw it, he built an altar before it. And Aaron made a proclamation and said, Tomorrow is a feast to Yehovah.” He’s attributing it to Yehovah, “Tomorrow is a feast to Yehovah. Nehemia: Amen. Jono: “Then they rose early on the next day, offered burnt offerings, and brought peace offerings; and the people sat down to eat and drink, and rose up to play.” Man! Oh, man. Nehemia: Wow. Keith: Well, let me make a strike at something before Nehemia has his way here. Let me just say something, and I want to put my own situation out on blast here. You know, there's always this thought that, okay, from the beginning when they say, he shouts down the words and the people say, "No. We want to hear from Moses. We don't want to hear from God." And then, Moses becomes the focus, and Moses isn't here and like, okay, so Moses is gone. He's up in the mountain. And so now, he's delayed, so we’ve got to have that thing again, we’ve got to have that connection, and that connection has got to be something we can see, someone we can put it upon, something that we can focus on. And so, what did they do? They say, "Now we're going to put this upon the golden calf." And then, the transitional line that's so important, Jono, that you stopped at is, I wish that Aaron would have just said this, “When Aaron saw this, he built an altar in front of the calf and announced, ‘Tomorrow we shall have a festival to the calf.’” See, that would be easy. Then we could say, it's the calf. But when we then take all of these human issues, we don't have a person. We need something we can look at. We’ve got to have an icon. We’ve got to have something we can see. Jono: Something tangible. Keith: Something tangible that we can hold on to. And then what we're going to do, that's so crazy about it, is we're going to call it Yehovah. We're going to make it be the very one who really brought us out. And that's the part that breaks my heart when I'm reading this; is that the people took that which is real and attempted to… Jono: Fabricated it. Keith: Exactly. Jono: Fabricated it. And it was at that point, and in verse 7, that Yehovah burnt them. “And Yehovah says, 'Go, get down! For your people whom you brought up out of the land of Egypt have corrupted themselves. They have turned aside quickly out of the way which I commanded them. They have made for themselves a molded calf, and worshiped it and sacrificed to it, and said, ‘This is your god, O Israel, that brought you out of the land of Egypt!’” And Yehovah said to Moses, 'I have seen this people, and indeed it is a stiff-necked people! Now therefore, let Me alone, that My wrath may burn hot against them and I may consume them. And I will make of you,'” he says to Moses, “And I will make of you a great nation.” Man, how close did it come? I mean, so close that he was just going to wipe them all out. And Moses pleaded with Yehovah, his Elohim, and said, “Yehovah, why does Your wrath burn hot against Your people whom You have brought out of the land of Egypt with great power and with a mighty hand? Why should the Egyptians speak, and say, ‘He brought them out to harm them, to kill them in the mountains, and to consume them from the face of the earth’? Turn from Your fierce wrath and relent from this harm to Your people. Remember,” to your people, he’s saying, “Remember Abraham, Isaac, and Israel, Your servants, to whom You swore by Your own self,” he’s reminding him, “and You said, ‘I will multiply your descendants as the stars of heaven; and all this land that I have spoken I give to your descendants, and they shall inherit it forever.’ So, Yehovah relented from the harm which He said He would do to His people.” Now, it is His people and, boy, it was close, wasn't it? Nehemia: When I hear the story of the golden calf there’s one thing it reminds me of, which is, you know, later in the Bible, that Jeroboam… Jono: Yes! Nehemia: …actually set up two golden calves… Jono: Yes. Bethel and Dan. Nehemia: …at the northern end of his kingdom and the other at the southern end of his kingdom, and each of those had a venerable tradition of why he set them up there. First there was a geographical reason, but it was also the reason that Bethel was the place where Jacob had his vision and Dan was a place where there had been an ancient temple, where Moses's grandson had been the priest and his descendants were priests. So, he sets up the golden calves, and he says word-for-word the exact same thing that was said here, "This is your god, O Israel, who has taken you out of the land of Egypt." Now, he didn't say this is some foreign god, this is the god of Canaanites,” like Jezebel did. He said, "This is Yehovah, the God who has taken you up out of the land of Egypt." They weren't worshiping some foreign god in the desert with that golden calf. They were worshiping the true God in a false way, and that's why the sin of the golden calf was so horrible. And Keith, I think, hit it on the head, hit the nail on the head, although I kind of zoned out when he was talking about it, so I may repeat something he said. Jono: Did you hear that, Keith? Let me just say that Nehemia's on…you're on heavy medication, right? You've had some serious dental surgery. Nehemia: I had dental surgery. I took an aspirin and an Advil, and anyway…but really, what they were doing is they were focusing on the cult of the personality and making it all about Moses. And when Moses wasn’t visibly in front of them… Jono: They panicked. Nehemia: …they need something else to be visibly in front of them. Jono: Yeah. Nehemia: Yehovah was there all the time. They didn't need some physical image, but this is what idolaters do, they say, I don't want Yehovah directly. He's too holy. I can't interact with Him, the Father of Creation. I need an intermediary, somebody I can talk to, someone I can deal with, a Moses, or a golden calf or some other intermediary for me to speak to and have an interaction with. And that’s the great sin of idolatry. You know, there's really two forms of idolatry. One is where you worship something completely foreign. The other is where you stick an intermediary between you and the Creator of the universe. That's what they were doing here in Israel, in the desert, and that's what Jeroboam did. Jono: Yes. Nehemia: Now, why did Jeroboam choose a golden calf? Because there was a tradition, and tradition said we worshiped the golden calf when we came up out of Egypt. Jono: Do you reckon? Do you think that's what it was? Nehemia: And if you would bring him the verse…I'm sure it's what it was. Jono: Are you serious? Because I… Nehemia: What was he, a moron worshiping a golden calf? Come on. Jono: Well, I mean… Nehemia: All you have to do is read this chapter in Exodus. Jono: But you read it, and it's not as if you can read it and you come to the conclusion that maybe it was a good thing. I mean, surely, he read this, and he knew this, and he was not in ignorance of this. So… Nehemia: So, he wasn't a moron, he wasn't stupid and ignorant. But it came down to, what's more powerful, Scripture or tradition? Look, we can have the same, and I’m going to do it, I’m going to say it; we can have the same discussion about the Pope. Jono: Sure. Nehemia: The Pope has the same Bible, at least the first four-fifths of it or so, right? He’s got the same Bible, the same Ten Commandments that say not to make an idol. Why is his Vatican full of idols? Is he an idiot? He's not an idiot. He knows exactly what it says in the Ten Commandments. He just doesn't care. You could bring him all the verses in the world. It won't matter because his tradition says to have idols, right? Jono: Fair enough. Nehemia: And so, it doesn't make a difference. To Jeroboam, the tradition said, we worshiped Yehovah in the desert a thousand years ago as a golden calf. What better image to choose than the golden calf? And we’ll put it at the two traditional sites, one the descendants of Moses are still priests, the other is where Jacob had his dream. This is perfect. Everyone is happy. I could just imagine the Judean preachers, and some of them were probably just like Keith Johnson coming up into the north into the Kingdom of Israel and saying, "Repent! You're sinning." It says it here in the verse, “How can you worship a golden calf? It was a sin!” And they’d laugh and they'd say, "You fanatics with your verses, you silly little people with your verses in this scroll, get out of here. My tradition…my father worshiped this golden calf, and his father worshiped the golden calf going back a dozen generations. What are you bringing me? Some verse from some scroll that you pulled out of Judea? Get out of here." That would have been the response. And this is why it was such a powerful image, the golden calf, because it has tradition behind it. Jono: That’s a really… Keith: Now, look… Jono: And not only that, but there’s history to Jeroboam's position. I mean, I can just imagine that, now that you've put that thought in my head, Nehemia. I can see them saying, "Don't you know that there were the 12 pieces of cloth? And Jeroboam took 10 pieces and it's changed now. It's all changed now, don't you know? You don't know that?" Nehemia: Right. Keith: I mean, Nehemia… Nehemia: Jeroboam was a legitimate king, to begin with. He was anointed king by Ahijah the Shilonite, who was a true prophet. We're told about it in the Book of Kings; but then he went in the direction that he went. So, you're absolutely right. I mean, look, Jeroboam was a messiah. He was anointed with oil by a prophet. But then, he went off in the wrong direction and told people to worship someone else. Keith: Well… Jono: Keith? Keith: Look, let me just say this. This is why, one day, I'll speak a message called, "If the golden calf could speak." And the reason I think about this is, I think, okay, let's talk about the golden calf for a second. If the golden calf could speak it would say, "Hey, look. I didn't ask for this.” Jono: Oh, yeah. Keith: “This isn't what I wanted to do. I mean, they're the ones that are doing this." And I also like to think about this with my tradition, and I've said it publicly before, I think that if the one that we call Yeshua were to walk on the earth on a Sunday morning, he would walk into some of the places that come from my tradition and he'd say, "Wait a minute. I didn't tell you to do this." And the reason I'm bringing this as a parallel is because what we have done with the messengers, or what we have done with the message, or what we have done with the attempt to create comfort for our senses and whatever, sometimes puts more on the calf than the calf ever expected. Jono: Yes. Keith: The calf is thinking, "Look. I didn't say that I'm Yehovah." Jono: “Why me?” Keith: And my point is…yeah, that's where this thing gets out of control. Jono: Yes. Keith: I know this is a touchy issue, but what happened here in 34 in the Torah is something we've seen created throughout history. Jono: Absolutely, absolutely. And so, verse 15, “And Moses turned and went down from the mountain, and the two tablets of the Testimony were in his hand. And the tablets were written on both sides; on the one side and on the other side they were written. Now the tablets were the work of God, and the writing was the writing of God engraved on the tablets. And when Joshua heard the noise of the people as they shouted, he said to Moses, 'There is a noise of war in the camp.' But he said, 'It is not the noise of a shout of victory, nor is it the cry of defeat, but it is the sound of singing that I hear.' And so, it was as soon as he came near the camp, that he saw the calf and the dancing. So, Moses’ anger became hot, and he cast the tablets out of his hands and broke them at the foot of the mountain. Then he took the calf which,” as you say, Keith, if it could speak, it would be going, it wasn't my fault. “He took the calf…” Keith: "I didn't do this." Jono: "I didn't do it. It wasn't my idea." Keith: Yes. Jono: “…that they had made, burned it in the fire, ground it into powder; he scattered it on the water and made the children of Israel drink it.” Now, Nehemia, this reminds me of, if I remember correctly, the Spirit of Jealousy comes over a man, and something similar to the words on the page is "ground into water" and the wife is made to drink it, and if the belly swells and the fire wastes away, and so on and so forth, kind of reminds me of that. Is there any connection in this kind of making them drink the golden calf or the water that it’s ground into? Keith: Hello? Jono: Hello? Hello, Nehemia? Keith: Nehemia? Ladies and gentlemen? Nehemia: Oh, I’m sorry. There’s something wrong with the microphone. So, my answer was yes, I guess there is a connection. Jono: Alright. Are you okay there? Keith: I’ll tell you, Jono, I really appreciated you bringing that up because it is funny, there seem to be these issues that will come up. And when you read all of the Torah, and you make these connections, it's almost like you're forced to ask, "Well, this seems like a picture of that. So why is there a connection?” When I think of that, I think of, okay, here's the charge. The charge is that you've now hooked up with another god, and are you guilty or are you not guilty? So, she drinks it and if there is no wasting away, she wasn't guilty and if there is, she was. So, I don't know all the linguistic issues there and I haven't studied it from that standpoint, but I do think it's kind of interesting that you make that connection. Jono: It is interesting, and in 21, “Moses said to Aaron, ‘What did this people do to you?’” How is that? “What did this people do to you that you have brought so great a sin upon them?” Aaron has brought upon. “So, Aaron said, ‘Hey, don’t let your anger burn. It's not my fault, you know. These people, they said I’m evil, they came to me and they said, ‘Make us gods to go before us; as for this Moses, the man who brought us out of the land of Egypt, we do not know what has become of him.’ And I said to them, ‘Whoever has any gold, let them break it off.’” And so, they gave it to me, all I did was throw it in the fire, Keith. I just threw it in the fire, and it came out like this. Keith: Yeah. Nehemia: He’s shirking responsibility. I mean, because earlier, we read that he actually took the grinding tool and the etching tool, and he made it. Jono: Yeah. Nehemia: And here, it's "I threw it in the fire and this calf came out. I didn't do this. It wasn't my fault." What's funny to me is that, in the rabbinical tradition, I was taught that his excuse was true. The rabbis actually buy his excuse. They believe it. Specifically, there's a legend that, when they carried Joseph's coffin, it was a very heavy coffin, and they have this special bull that had written on it, "Arise, oh bull," because Joseph is likened to a bull in one of the passages of the blessing, or something like that. And so, they would use the golden bull to make the coffin arise, this massive Egyptian coffin, and that's how they carried it in the desert. So, somebody brought that bull to Aaron and handed it to him. He threw it in the fire, along with all the earrings, and the bull magically arose out. Now, this is what I was taught as fact. What a bunch of… Keith: Now, okay, so is it possible… Nehemia: Can we respect that tradition, Johnson? Keith: Let me say one of the things that they may be trying to do, and I'm not saying that I believe that it was the bull. Nehemia: They’re trying to, literally… Keith: Let me say this. Jono: Keith? Keith: Bevakasha. So, let me say this. As we're reading this, one of the things that I'm thinking, now, if I'm just reading this, I now have a bit of a concern about the integrity of the high priest. Jono: Yeah? Keith: In other words, Aaron… Nehemia: That's an understatement. Keith: That's an understatement. So, the human side of it says, oh my goodness, now, this is about to be the guy that's going to be the high priest. So, if I really take it for what it is, then I've got some concerns about who he is. Now, if I have to bring validity to what he says, he would never lie, he's the high priest. So, I've got to create a story to match. And again, Nehemia, I'm with you. There's no part of me that believes that the calf just fell out, and I don't think we even have to read it. Like you said, we just read it. It says that Aaron created it, that he used the tool. But the point being, if that line wasn't in there, maybe we don't have the question. But, because it is, the Methodist is reading it and saying, okay, so Aaron g

In this episode of Prophet Pearls, Ki Tisa (1 Kings 18:1-39), Nehemia Gordon and Keith Johnson convene in Jerusalem to examine the brassiest display of prophetic prowess in the Tanakh. We are drawn into Elijah’s confrontation with Ahab as if for the first time. Hebrew word-plays jump off the page and demand attention. Gordon connects puzzle pieces to propose a fascinating and completely plausible reading of Obadiah’s back story. Who was he and what great news for mankind does he represent? Gordon closes in a prayer of consecration to Yehovah—the one who in unfailing mercy redeems the hearts of unworthy men. "you call on the name of your gods, and I will call on the name of Yehovah" (1 Kings 18:24) I look forward to reading your comments! https://audio.nehemiaswall.com/Prophet-Pearls/Prophet-Pearls-21-Ki-Tisa.mp3 Download Prophet Pearls Ki Tisa Transcript Prophet Pearls #21 - Ki Tisa (1 Kings 18:1-39) You are listening to Prophet Pearls with Nehemia Gordon and Keith Johnson. Thank you for supporting Nehemia Gordon's Makor Hebrew Foundation. Learn more at NehemiasWall.com. Keith: Welcome to Prophet Pearls face-to-face. This is Keith Johnson, along with my friend Nehemia Gordon. We’re now going to call this Prophet Pearls Whatever It Takes. We are together in the Land of Israel. I just flew in late last night. You’ve been here for a few days. Nehemia, welcome to the Land of Israel. Nehemia: Shalom, Keith. Welcome. I picked you up last night from the airport. Keith: Yes. Nehemia: Outside of Tel Aviv, and we drove into Jerusalem. I’m just so blessed to be here in the Land of the Prophets, speaking about the Prophets. It’s just amazing. I love it. Keith: We’ll set a little context. You have found a place for us. We're calling it “the safe house.” Nehemia, it’s in the basement. Where are we? Nehemia: We’re actually in the second sub-basement of this building, which is built into the side of a mountain. We were looking for a place to record, and here’s a place where on one side is a mountain; the other side is a valley. So our hope, at least, is that there won’t be too many noise distractions. Jerusalem can sometimes be a very noisy city, and we were trying to look for a quiet place to record Prophet Pearls. Keith: We were looking for a quiet place. Why? Because we were trying to record across the world. I was in one part of the world, you were in another part of the world; we were dealing with a number of issues, technology issues, et cetera. We just released a couple… just in the last 24 hours, a little promotional video about what we were willing to do - whatever it takes. We even got on a Harley Davidson. Nehemia: He made me ride on the back of a Harley. I’ve never been on a motorcycle. Keith: I just have to say, it really is an interesting process. I’ve been sick the last few days, and then I got here and my luggage didn’t make it with me, and so I’m here without my luggage. But I did something, Nehemia. It was really interesting. I’ve been traveling to a few different places, but one thing I do is I take my Hebrew Bible out and I carry it with me. It’s kind of interesting - my other Bibles are in my suitcase, I’ve got my Hebrew Bible, I’m in the Land of the Prophets, I’m here with you, we’re about to record this section. I just have to say, I really think your idea - and I’ve got to give you a lot of credit for this - it was your idea that we go ahead and do the Amos 3:3 approach together. Can you tell the people a little bit… I know we’ve talked about it, tell them a little bit about that and why this is so significant. Nehemia: Yes. We were actually just this morning at my mother’s apartment here in Jerusalem, and I was sharing this with her. Amos 3:3 is a verse that says in the Hebrew, “Hayelchu shnayim yachdav bilti im no’adu.” In the common English translation, it’s “Can two walk together, except they be agreed?” People take that to mean, “Well, I can’t walk in faith with another person unless we completely agree, we have the same doctrine, create the same theology, otherwise, we can't walk together.” That’s not at all what it says. When I said it to my mother in Hebrew, she immediately recognized in the word, “bilti im no’adu” the word “mo’ed,” which is the appointed time when people come together. What it literally means, what it says in Hebrew is, “Can two walk together without having met one another?” First, you need to meet each other on common ground and then you can walk together. What we decided to do is meet each other in the common ground of the Word of God and walk together in faith before the Creator of the universe. What we tried to do, the first number of episodes we were together sitting next to each other… Keith: Yes, in Charlotte. Nehemia: Yes, at your house in Charlotte and it was wonderful. Then you flew off to China and I was in the United States and we tried doing this… Keith: You were in a few places, weren’t you? Nehemia: I was in a few places. I think I was mostly in the U.S. at the time. I would call you up on Skype over in China, and sometimes it would work, sometimes it wouldn’t work. Really, for me, the straw that broke the camel’s back was when we had an episode that should have taken an hour to record. It should have been one easy thing to do. Instead, we were disconnected seven separate times, which means we had eight files of recording, and I believe our editor did a really good job so that people didn’t notice that, but they realized something was going on. I realized at that point… I mean literally, I would be in the middle of talking and then I’d say, “Isn’t that amazing Keith?” and I felt like Keith was completely flabbergasted by what I said because he was in complete silence. Keith: And I didn’t hear it. I had no idea what you were talking about. Nehemia: We were completely disconnected. The call had hung up, and it didn’t even tell me that. It was very frustrating and we realized we’ve got to come together. Actually, this is such a blessing, because Keith, you had a tour over here with the Biblical Foundations Academy, and I came over here for my ministry, Makor Hebrew Foundation, to work on the Aviv Search. So what we decided to do was to come a few weeks early so that we could record these episodes face-to-face, sitting next to each other. We’re here in this apartment. Can I tell the people, can I describe…? Keith: Absolutely. They’ve got to know where we’re at. Nehemia: We’re sitting here at a plastic table and we’ve put two towels over the table - like bath towels - to absorb some of the shock, so when I go like this and I’m tapping you don’t hear it in the microphone. Then we hung… yesterday I was with the person who owns this apartment and she helped me hang a bed sheet across the wall. This is like a makeshift studio, so it absorbs some of the sound. Look, we’re really high tech. This is a professional operation. Keith: Exactly. This is a professional operation. Nehemia: But we do have this really fancy microphone that… Keith made fun of me. But this is actually a microphone professionals use. Keith: No, it really is. And actually… Nehemia: It works. Keith: It works. I just have to say, I will just start out by saying I’ve been sick the last week, and it wasn’t a hundred percent sure I was going to be able to convince the airline that I can get here. I flew with El Al. There’s a bunch of stuff right now, depending on where you’ve been, they ask you questions about if you’d been in certain parts of the country and if you’ve got a fever and all that sort of thing. I was able to say that I didn’t have a fever, but I did get here, you got me to a pharmacy, Nehemia, and I slept last night. Nehemia: You had China-itis. Or you have China-itis, don’t you? I had that when I first got back from China, and you’ve got that now. Keith: Yes. It’s just basically what happens is the pollution ends up getting into your system, your blood system, and it’s actually a bit serious. But after those first couple days, I then transitioned to where I’m just dealing with congestion and that sort of thing. Got a chance to get some of the famous Bubby Dina’s chicken soup today. Nehemia: That’s my mom. The best chicken soup in the world. Keith: I am excited to get it started. We’re going to get started in 1 Kings 18. I just have to say we’ve had Prophet Pearls Partners who have been very wonderful and patient. But we had to make a huge shift, which is that we had to do everything now in the next couple of weeks. And so I’m going to mention the people that are the partners, I’m going to suggest to them, everyone that’s listening, that you would take advantage of bringing your comments to nehemiaswall.com, bfainternational.com, and let your comments be right there. For those who didn’t send them in an advance, we really do appreciate everything that you write. And again, I think the last few weeks, Nehemia, we’ve been inviting people to make comments, and they have been doing that, so that’s awesome. Nehemia: Oh, yes. Keith: We’re actually going to be going here - the Sioux Falls group is actually responsible for this week, our Prophet Pearls Partners from Sioux Falls. We’re in the 1 Kings chapter 18, one of the most wonderful passages, you and I have had some experiences with this passage. Maybe you don’t remember, we’ve done so many things. But we’re going to talk about 1 Kings chapter 18, starting in verse…? Nehemia: Verse 1. Keith: Verse 1. We’re going to go back and forth as far as reading. I don’t have my English Bible with me, but I do have my computer. I’ve got my Hebrew Bible. You’ve got the computer, and of course whatever’s in your mind and memory, and of course, we have prepared ahead of time. So let’s get started, 1 Kings chapter 18 verse 1, it says, “Now it happened after many days that the word of Yehovah came to Elijah,” and then right away it starts, “in the third year.” What third year? What are we talking about here? What’s the third year? Third year, who? Third year of what? What does the third year mean, Nehemia? Nehemia: So there’s this drought, and it was a punishment to King Ahab and the Kingdom of Israel. This is the third year of the drought. Imagine that. Israel is not a country that has major rivers - our major river is smaller than some… Actually, I’ll tell you something. I was over in China, and I literally saw open sewers that were bigger than the Jordan River, and it really puts things in perspective. I drive around the U.S. lately, and I’ll come across a river that doesn’t even have a name and it’s bigger than the Jordan River. It’s like some tributary of a tributary of some minor river, and it’s bigger than the Jordan. So imagine, if there’s no rain for three years there’s not enough water to survive. Keith: No rain, you’ve got problems. Nehemia: This was a really big deal - three years of drought. Keith: The word comes and says, and I think this is nothing small, “Go, show yourself to your enemy,” basically. Go show yourself to the guy that’s trying to take your head off. It says, “Go, show yourself to Ahab, and I will send rain on the face of the earth.” When I see that phrase, Nehemia, I see two things. One, “Go, show yourself to Ahab,” that’s the bad news. The good news, I’m about to send rain on the face of the earth. I mean be Elijah there for a second. I’m going to be Elijah like, “But why don’t you just send the rain?” Nehemia: Here I have a little bit of an issue, which is that I wouldn’t translate it as, “Go, show yourself.” I would translate it as, “Go, appear.” Keith: Okay. Nehemia: It’s the same word that we actually see… for example, we had a Torah portion called “Vayeira,” “And He appeared,” “And God appeared to Abraham,” and it’s the same word. So it doesn’t translate, “And He showed himself.” It’s, “And He appeared.” That might sound like a really subtle difference. In Hebrew, it’s the difference between an active verb and a passive verb, or actually a causative verb, “to show yourself,” and a passive verb, “to appear.” I don’t know that it makes a difference in the sense of the sentence, but it’s slightly different, “Go appear to Ahab.” It’s almost like Elijah is… and we have that verse where God says to Moses, “You will be a god to Pharaoh, and Aaron will be your prophet.” “You will be Elohim to Pharaoh.” So in some instances, the prophet represents God, and he can appear to people just like God can appear to people, speaking His word. Keith: Well, then it says, what does it say in chapter 18 verse 2? It says, “So Elijah did just that. He went to appear,” “He went to show himself,” in the NIV here it says that “To show himself,” or to appear, “to Ahab.” And then it says, “just as a reminder that the famine was severe.” I mean it’s three years, how much more severe? In other words, it’s repeating the obvious, there’s no rain… Nehemia: Well, it’s not necessarily obvious. Maybe in Egypt they had seven years of food stored. But in this case, they didn’t. Keith: Yes. Nehemia: So they were in trouble, after two years of drought, they were in trouble. Keith: Then comes the verse, and again, I don’t know what word you want to deal with here, but I love it anytime you get a chance to… Nehemia: Oh, the Word of the Week, I’ve got that already. Keith: Do you seriously? Have you really? Nehemia: But that’s later on. Absolutely, I got that. I’m all over that. Keith: Okay. Awesome, awesome. Let me read this, 18:3, “And Ahab called Obadiah, who was over the household. Now Obadiah feared Yehovah,” it says, “greatly.” I mean it’s a response here. Here’s the man who’s over the household, he’s fearing Yehovah, and then it goes on. I want to read this and then we can slow down and go back, but I just want to read the next verse. It says, “For when Jezebel…” Now, immediately, when you see something like this you’re reading. If you just read right now and you don’t know before anything, you’re like, “Well, who is this?” “For when Jezebel destroyed the prophets of Yehovah, Obadiah took a hundred prophets and hid them by fifties in a cave and provided them with bread and with water.” So we’ve got Obadiah; we’ve got Ahab; we’ve got Elijah, and now we’ve got this person Jezebel. So when we read this, obviously those who haven't read forward wouldn't know, but Jezebel is the wife of Ahab. Nehemia: The queen. The evil queen. Keith: Yes. She’s the evil queen who’s not real happy about anybody that’s not going to do exactly what she wants them to do. So certainly, the servants of Yehovah, or the prophets of Yehovah, would be on her list of those you’d want to get rid of. Nehemia: Yes. So, I have some things to say about Obadiah, but I’m going to save that for a little bit later, verse 8, because that's really where we get this new perspective. But just now to say, Obadiah is Hebrew for “Ovadyahu,” which means the servant of yud, hey, vav, hey. The servant of Yehovah, “Ovadyahu.” It’s one of these very common structures which we call a compound name. A compound name is two words together form a name. The first word means servant, you can also translate it as “slave” and “Yahu,” which is the end form. Whenever yud, hey, vav, hey, the name of the Father appears at the end of a name, it’s always “yahu” or “ya,” as in my name Nehemia; “Yeho,” at the beginning. It’s an interesting name, “Ovadyahu,” he is a servant of Yehovah. So it’s ironic or even telling, I would say, we have Jezebel, who also is a compound name, “I’zevel,” which probably, it’s not entirely clear, but it probably means “man of Zevel,” and that might be a Canaanite word that means the mystical sanctuary where the god lives up in heaven; that’s called “Zevul” in Canaanite literature. So maybe her father named her after the man of Zevel. Or possibly it could even be the coast of Zevel, the coast of this holy sanctuary, because she comes from Sidon, which is on the coast of Lebanon. In Hebrew, it’s immediately obvious that we’re dealing here with a pun that means something else to the Hebrews, because “zevel” means garbage. It means one thing in the Canaanite language, and a slightly different thing in the Hebrew language, even though they’re related languages. So here you have Jezebel, who wants to wipe out the prophets of God, and you have the man whose name is “the servant of Yehovah.” If I were Jezebel, I would have been suspicious of Obadiah. Keith: Exactly. Nehemia: From the very outset, like, the guy’s name gives him away. She worships her Baal, and here’s a guy whose name means “servant of Yehovah.” Keith: Now, let me ask this question. When you see the phrase “destroyed the prophets of Yehovah,” don’t you want to ask yourself where else is that talked about? In other words, this phrase that’s there, it's just there, and it’s almost like it’s just a fact - she’s the one who did this. I’m thinking, but where’s that at? Where else is that discussed? Nehemia: Actually, it doesn’t say in Hebrew “destroyed.” It says, “Cut off.” Yes. So I don’t know. What’s the answer? What have you got? Keith: I don’t have an answer for it. I don’t know where else she actually talks about it. I mean, in other words... Nehemia: Oh, you mean where that incident took place. Keith: Yes. Nehemia: Okay. So this is an interesting literary device, you might call it, where it’s referring to something that happened in the past, but it’s the first time we’re hearing about it. Keith: Exactly. Nehemia: It reminds me of when Tzipora, the wife of Moshe, Moses, she takes the situation, she throws down in front of him, and she says, “A bridegroom because of blood, and therefore they said bride…” What? Wait, what? What’s this talking about? Keith: Exactly. Nehemia: We’re missing a part of the story. So we actually don’t know what those circumstances were. But it is really interesting here, and we’ll get to this more. I’m going to save it for later. It’s really interesting. Keith: Awesome. I just thought that that was something, and this happens a lot in Scripture, where you’ll hear something as a matter of fact. “You know, the one who did such and such?” And you’re like, “But where is that?” This is an example. Nehemia: Where did it come from? Keith: That’s the question. Nehemia: No, but I think the answer is it really happened, and it was something that was well known in the time that they were writing about this. So it didn’t need to say, “Hey! By the way…” Keith: Exactly. Nehemia: It’s interesting, you’ll read - and this is actually something as an author I struggle with - how much do you want to explain as the author? I have an editor, you know her, Schiffer, a brilliant woman and she says, “Don’t talk down to the audience when you’re writing. You don’t have to explain the obvious because people will be insulted by that.” But then the challenge is to know what’s obvious to me may not be obvious to them. Keith: Exactly. Nehemia: So if I’m writing and I say, “9/11, when 19 terrorists took down the World Trade Center,” like, “Okay, really? We know what that is. What are you talking about?” But then I’ve spoken with young people who actually don’t know what it is. Can you imagine that? Keith: You know what's interesting? You bring that up, and it’s funny because I’m presently in Shanghai right now, and so many wonderful things that are happening. I know there are people who have questions about what’s going on, but so many wonderful things and doors that are opening. But it’s really interesting about the people that are there, when you think about information that you think that the world knows. So you can say… like what happened at Tiananmen Square. Nehemia: Oh, they have no idea what that is. Keith: Well you know this because you’ve asked... Nehemia: Right. In China, they don’t know. Keith: Many people don’t have an idea. They have controlled that information, and depending on the generation... Nehemia: Right. That’s true, as well. Keith: And generations, what they know. You talk about the great leap forward and you talk about famines, all these different things, different people knowing it. But this statement clearly, when it says this is something that she did, people wouldn’t say, “Now, what was that?” I mean, people knew that’s what she did. Nehemia: I was going to save this till later, but we’ve got to talk about it. It’s just important. It has to do with… We see this whole series of kings of Israel who are sinners and they’re worshipping false gods and idols, but they don’t wipe out the prophets of Yehovah. They actually manipulate the prophets of Yehovah. They set up false prophets who speak in Yehovah’s name. I compare this passage to another one we have a few chapters later, which I don’t think is in the Prophet Pearls, but it’s one of my favorite passages. I think it was 1 Kings 21 or 22, where we have Micaiah, he’s the prophet and he’s speaking the word, and these 400 other prophets, who are also prophets of Yehovah in His name, but they’re false prophets. This is a different situation here. She’s attacking anybody who speaks in Yehovah’s name, and that’s because she’s a foreigner. She’s a Sidonian. So what the Israelites did, and we’ll get to this more, is they practiced something called syncretism. They would worship Yehovah as if He was the same thing as Baal. This is a different ballgame, this Sidonian situation. She’s coming in and she’s as zealous for Baal as we are, or as we should be, for Yehovah. She wants to wipe out the worship of Yehovah, not just hijack it and co-opt it, but to completely wipe it out and replace it with something not similar but different, but something completely different. And that’s really important. That’s a very subtle distinction between syncretism, where you have two things together and you make them look like the same, and this situation, where she wants to replace the faith of Israel. Keith: Absolutely. Absolutely. Well, here’s what happens, and I think this phrase is interesting, in 18:5 it says, “Then Ahab said to Obadiah, ‘Go through the land to all the springs of water and to all the valleys; perhaps we will find grass and keep the people alive.’” Nehemia: No. Keith: I know. I’m trying to help you, it says, “maybe we’ll keep the people alive.” No, it says... Nehemia: They don’t care about the people. Keith: “…and keep the horses and mules alive, and not have to kill some of the cattle.” Now, did that hit you in some way, too? Nehemia: Here’s what hit me, and I don’t know if you see this in the English, but in the Hebrew the word for “kill the cattle” is the same word that appeared about the prophets of Yehovah, where it says, “hichrit,” it’s the hif’il of “karat”, to cause to be cut off. So literally, in verse 4, “And it came to pass when Jezebel caused the prophets of Yehovah to be cut off.” Here in verse 5, he’s saying, “So that we don’t cause the animals to be cut off,” or, “we don’t cause to be cut off from the animals.” He was concerned about the animals, but he wasn’t concerned about the prophets of Yehovah. The very same word that he’s afraid will happen to the animals is what his wife did to the prophets of Yehovah. That’s not an accident. When you read it in Hebrew, it jumps off the page, and you’re like, “Oh, man, there’s irony here.” Keith: So then it says, “So they divided the land between them to survey it,” to check it out. “Ahab went one way and Obadiah went another way.” Now, this is Ahab the king; doesn’t Ahab have someone else he could have do this? Nehemia: I know it’s surprising. Here’s Ahab wandering around the countryside… Keith: Looking for grass. Nehemia: …with some mules and horses - like what? Keith: Exactly. Nehemia: Yes. It’s interesting. Keith: So here it comes. Nehemia: That’s how lowly they had fallen. Keith: Yes. Okay. It says in verse 7, “Now as Obadiah was on the way, behold,” here he comes, “Elijah met him,” and it says, “and he recognized him and fell on his face and said, ‘Is this you, Elijah, my master?’” And verse 18:8 says, “And he said to him, ‘It is I. Go, say to your master, ‘Behold, Elijah is here.’’” Now, two things there. First, in 18:7 he says, “Is that you?” Now, let’s look at the Hebrew here. What does it say in the Hebrew? “Elijah my master.” Nehemia: Yes. So the word for “master” is “adoni.” Keith: Okay. And then what does Elijah use when he says, “Now go to your master,” what does it say? Nehemia: He says, “le’adonecha”, “to your master.” Keith: So basically, the words are the same. In other words, he’s saying… Nehemia: Actually, the word for Ahab is a stronger word. It’s what we call the majestic plural, which can be used to describe God or a king. So, literally, if you want to translate it, he says, “Go to your masters and say, ‘Behold Elijah.’” But there’s only one master, who’s Ahab, but it’s the majestic plural. By expressing it with the plural ending, it gives it more majesty, more greatness. So actually, in a way, he’s saying, “You’re calling me adoni, go to your adonim.” That’s interesting. Keith: So he says, “And he said to him, ‘It is I. Go, say to your master, ‘Behold, Elijah is here.’’” He said, “What sin have I committed that you are giving your servant into the hand of Ahab to put me to death? As Yehovah your God lives.” We’ve got to stop there. Every time I see this phrase, “As Yehovah lives,” I can’t help but just stop, and again be reminded of how important that phrase is. Nehemia: It’s huge. Keith: It’s huge! Nehemia: It’s prophetic. Keith: It’s prophetic. Oh, man. Nehemia: So, let me share a few... Keith: Yes, go ahead. Nehemia: Actually, can we read the verse and then go back and talk about it? Keith: Okay. Absolutely. Can you read it there? Nehemia: No, you go ahead. Keith: It says, “As Yehovah your God lives, there is no nation or kingdom where my master has not sent to search for you; and when they said, ‘He is not here,’ he made that kingdom or nation swear that they could not find you.” Nehemia: Right. Then he goes on and says, “And now you say, ‘Go, and tell your master, ‘Behold, Elijah,’”’ and it shall come to pass that I will go from you and the spirit of Yehovah will lift you up.” Et cetera, et cetera. He’s like saying… well, actually, we’ve got to finish that verse. I’m sorry. It’s important. “… shall lift you up, to where I do not know. And I will come to say to Ahab, and he will not find you, and he will kill me,” you know - because I am going to go tell him that I found you. “And your servant has feared Yehovah from my youth.” Very interesting. “Has it not been told to my master?” Et cetera. Let’s go back here. So this is interesting. The word that jumps off the page… well, there are two things that jump off the page in verse 10. One is this phrase “Chai Yehovah,” “As Yehovah lives,” which, as I started to say it appears 44 times in the Tanakh, that phrase. And in Jeremiah 12:16, there’s a prophetic instance of it. God is speaking to the four nations that surround Israel. And it says, “It shall come to pass that they surely learn the ways of My people to swear in My name: ‘As Yehovah lives,’” “Chai Yehovah.” Keith: When you said Jeremiah, are you talking about Jeremiah 16? Nehemia: Jeremiah 12:16. Keith: Oh, 12:16. Nehemia: Yes. “In My name, ‘As Yehovah lives,’ as they taught My people to swear by Baal; veyivnu betoch ami, and they will be built up in the midst of My people.” So this is a promise to the nations surrounding Israel if they will learn to swear it in the name of the Creator of the universe. Chai Yehovah. Keith: Chai Yehovah. Nehemia: Chai Yehovah, “As Yehovah lives.” “As they taught my people to swear Chai,” and then the name Baal, “As Baal lives, and they will be built in the midst of Israel.” So it’s really interesting here. This is a promise to the nations. It’s got nothing to do with me. It’s a promise for the nations of the world who aren’t descendants of Israel to actually be built in the midst of Israel. Isn’t that amazing? Keith: That’s amazing. Nehemia: It has to do with this phrase “Chai Yehovah.” It appears 44 times. It’s a common expression. There are other verses where God says, “As I live.” We could talk about that. But what’s interesting to me is what he says here in verse 10, he says, “Chai Yehovah Elohecha.” “As Yehovah your God lives.” Whoa! What do you have to say about that, Keith? That could be nothing, but I don’t think it’s nothing. Why didn’t he say, “Chai Yehovah Elohei Israel.” “As Yehovah lives, the God of Israel.” Or, “Chai Yehovah Elohai.” “As Yehovah my God lives.” Or “Chai Yehovah Eloheinu,” “our God.” Why did he say, “As Yehovah your God lives”? Keith: Well, I would just say this. One of the things that I think is interesting when I’m reading this is that there’s this thing back and forth between Elijah and Obadiah. Nehemia: Yes. Keith: So he says to him, “El Elijah, my master.” And then he says to him, “Behold, your Adoni.” Like you said, the plural. Then it comes back to him and he says, “What sin have I committed, that you are giving... As Yehovah your God lives.” He’s proclaiming… It’s like he’s saying, he knows the commitment that Elijah has to Yehovah. Maybe Elijah doesn’t know the… Nehemia: What do you mean? No, he says later on, “It was told to you what I did. I saved the prophets of Yehovah.” Keith: Yes. Nehemia: So he’s assuming Elijah does know, and if he doesn’t know it he’s telling him, one of those situations. But for example, I want to bring you a couple of examples here of what I’m talking about and this kind of like emphasizes it. This is really strange that he says, “your God.” So we have three places in the Tanakh, out of the 44, where it says, “As Yehovah Elohei Israel,” the God of Israel - 1 Samuel 25:34, 1 Kings 17 1, and 1 Kings 17:12. Three times, three witnesses, where people use this phrase, “As Yehovah lives,” and they say, “As Yehovah the God of Israel lives.” They give him that title. All of a sudden, he says, “As Yehovah your God lives.” So I have a hypothesis. It’s a theory. Keith: Uh-oh. Nehemia: I can’t prove it, but I have a suspicion. Here’s what we know: Jezebel was a Sidonian princess. She was a foreigner. She was zealous for the worship of Baal. She came with a whole entourage of people from Sidon when she married the king of Israel. She was actually the daughter of a ruler of Sidon, a man named Ithobaal, which means “with Baal.” Keith: With Baal. Nehemia: The alef, tav of Baal. She brings these people with her, and maybe one of those, this is my suggestion, could have been a man named Ovadbaal, and he comes to Israel as a young man and he starts to worship Yehovah and his name is changed to Ovadyahu, Obadiah. Keith: Are you really going to come up with that theory, Nehemia? Nehemia: It’s possible. Keith: You’re not going to give me a verse? You’re not going to say… Nehemia: Well, here’s where it comes to me. Verse 12. Keith: Now we’re talking. Nehemia: He says, “And your servant has feared Yehovah from my youth.” That’s interesting. Now, that could mean, “Look, I’ve done it all my life since I was a baby.” But “from my youth” also might mean, “look, ever since I came from Sidon with the princess, I’ve been zealous for your God.” That fits with him saying, “As Yehovah your God.” “Look, I’ve been built into the midst of your people.” He knows Jeremiah 12:16. Or he knows the concept of Jeremiah 12:16, that if he learns to swear “As Yehovah lives,” as the way they have learned to swear “as Baal lives”, meaning the way Israel learned from the gentiles, then he has the opportunity to be built in the midst of the people. Keith: Nehemia, you’ve come so far. I’ve known you for how long? How long have I known you? Nehemia: I don’t know. Thirteen years? Twelve years, something like that. Keith: Thirteen, fourteen years, or something like that. And the one thing you used to always say is – I used to get frustrated about this. I used to get upset about this. I used to want to strangle you, put my arms around your neck. Nehemia: You’ve never done it, though. Keith: No, I haven't done a thing. I’d say, “Nehemia, I’m thinking, one of the things…” and you’d say, “Yes, but where does it say it in Scripture? Where does it say it in Scripture?” Nehemia: Well, I’m not saying, “This is the doctrine we must accept. And those who don’t adhere to this doctrine shall be cast into the lake of fire and we will not walk together because we are not agreeing…” That’s not what I’m saying at all. What I’m saying here... Keith: You’re trying to put the pieces together. Nehemia: I’m trying to put the pieces together, and especially of this very unusual thing, “As Yehovah your God lives.” It’s unique in the Tanakh. Now, we do have other places where people say, “your God,” and especially you’ll find that as a phrase that appears commonly in Deuteronomy, where Moses is speaking to Israel and he says, “your God.” Well, he could have said, “our God.” All right. But here it’s really strange. Keith: I just wish we could find an example where his name was changed from... Nehemia: No, we don’t know that. Look, maybe he was called Obadiah and he was born in a little village in Galilee. I don’t know. But it’s possible, since he’s part of this whole world of Ahab and Jezebel; we do know Jezebel came from Sidon and she brought an entourage with her, and they were trying to stamp out the prophets of Yehovah. This actually fits another piece of evidence. How does it come about that Obadiah has the opportunity to save all these prophets of Yehovah, 50, in a cave? Maybe he was the one sent to kill them. And you know that makes a lot of sense, especially when he’s called “asher al habayit,” “that who is over the house.” So now we have to explain to people what that means. Keith: Yes. Nehemia: Historically, he who is over the house, He’s not the butler. He’s what we would call today the prime minister. So you had a king of Israel and a queen. And look, the king isn’t involved in every decision. He’s not interested in the small petty affairs of state. He’s going to make the policy and guide things. But he isn’t somebody who makes the day-to-day decisions, that’s the prime minister. In Biblical Hebrew, that’s “he who is over the house.” This is the number two guy in the kingdom. It’s very possible that… who is Jezebel going to trust as a number two guy in the kingdom? One of her cronies from back in Sidon. I’m suggesting this is a possibility, it’s not a doctrine. You can completely reject it if you want. It’s entirely fine. Keith: I’m going to reject it, but I want to tell you that you opened up the door... Nehemia: But the fact that he says, “As Yehovah your God lives.” So we say in Hebrew, “zeh omer darsheni,” it says investigate me. Keith: It’s calling for it. Nehemia: It’s begging me to investigate it. Keith: I want to say something. It’s interesting you brought up about that being the prime minister, because you’ve got us in a place, Nehemia, that’s really not far… I can look out the window and the Knesset is not far from here. This morning, early this morning, I woke up… Nehemia: In fact, literally, you look out the window, we see the Israel Museum, and the next hill over is the Knesset. Keith: Yes. So I walked over and I looked at the Knesset, and then I walked over to Netanyahu’s house. Nehemia: You didn’t. Keith: Yes. I did, I walked over to Netanyahu's house. He wasn’t there. Nehemia: That’s right. Keith: He wasn’t there because he’s on his way to the United States. Now, I’ve got to say something about this. You brought up about the prime minister, and I just think it’s really interesting the politics of Israel, you’ve got the king… and now you just brought a really interesting concept - that Obadiah is not like… he’s the servant, meaning he’s the guy that is way down the list. Nehemia: Well, in general, when it talks about the cup-bearer, it’s not just the guy who holds the cup. Keith: Yes. He’s got some authority. Nehemia: He’s actually a minister of state. I think we can maybe look to some modern countries. Let’s take the easiest example, which is a little out of date, but the United Kingdom, or England - they’ve got a queen of England. She doesn’t have any power anymore, but there was a time when the King of England had power, but he still didn’t run the day to day affairs of the state. He had a prime minister. Under the prime minister there was the Minister of Education and the minister of whatever there was, I don’t know, back then. So the point here is in ancient times you had a king, and under the king was “he who is over the house,” the head of all the ministers, and underneath him was the cupbearer and the head baker, but he wasn’t actually just a baker; he was maybe over the finances of the palace, and maybe even over the entire kingdom. So we have these terms that have lost their meaning in modern English. So this guy “who’s over the house,” he’s not sweeping the floors, even though he’s running around with the donkeys. Keith: You know, it’s interesting though, because the reason I said that, I think that there’s something to what you’re saying is that so I said, “What’s the king doing out walking around?” Nehemia: Right. Keith: It’s not like the king and the lowest guy on the totem pole. These two guys... Nehemia: No. These are the two top guys. That’s how desperate they are. Keith: That’s what I think is really significant. I mentioned the thing about Netanyahu, of course... Nehemia: Yes, what’s going on with Netanyahu? Keith: So he’s on his way to the United States. He’s defied Washington, he’s going to be speaking to Congress there. Nehemia: Oh, no. Keith: I went over to see if I could get a hold of him before he went. He left. He’s on his way. I was met with a guard with a gun. The Knesset is here. But also, Nehemia - and we’re going to talk about this just a little bit - about the significance of what Obadiah actually did in terms of saving the prophets. This week, there’s going to be Purim, that’s going to be celebrated. And for people that don’t know, I think it’s a really interesting thing for people to look into. We can talk about it a little bit more. But I just think it’s so interesting we’re here right now. Nehemia: Yes. Keith: We’re actually here at a time... as I was talking to your mother - Bubby Dina is my consultant, folks, when it comes to the politics of Israel and the United States - she talked about the significance of what’s happening in terms of what could happen with Israel. We’re going to talk about this with Jezebel and what happens with Elijah. But I don’t know why, I could read this story, and for some reason, it just feels more… like, I understand the significance of it. I mean, politics and what’s going on in the United States, and what’s going on here, and Iran, and all of this stuff, and Purim… Nehemia: I think this really ties in. I want to go back to Obadiah, who according to my hypothesis was born a gentile in Sidon as a servant of Baal and he was brought over, and from his youth he feared Yehovah. In my view, in my opinion, he is a picture in the story of the gentile who has joined himself to Yehovah. Keith: Amen. Nehemia: He stands in contrast to the Israelites who are part of the people of Yehovah, and they’re sitting on the fence worshipping both gods. And to me, there’s this contrast, and Obadiah - I think it’s interesting that he’s contrasted. There are two top figures that are looking for the water, and who does this messenger of Yehovah, who comes from Yehovah as Elohim “to appear,” it’s a word that applies to a god appearing. He’s there to appear. He does not appear to the Jew, to Ahab, he appears to the gentile who has joined to the people of Israel and embraced the God of Israel, to Ovadyahu, to Obadiah, and I think that’s really significant. I think it’s at the one time saying, “look, here’s a hope for the gentiles,” and at the same time, a criticism of Israel, “Get off the fence and embrace the God of Israel. Aren’t you ashamed that God sends his prophet and he’s got to go appear to the gentiles because you’re not ready to accept him?” Keith: Wow. I will tell you something. We talk about exploring biblical prophecy yesterday, today, and tomorrow. It will be hard for me, for these couple weeks that we’re here, Nehemia, as we’re going through these sections, to always ask the question, “So this is what happened then, but how does it relate to now?” I think right now we’re in a really, really, and I don’t use the word “interesting”, I say “crucial” time in the world as far as Israel and what’s happening around the world. I mean, it’s sobering to me to come here and to be in this land right now, to read these kinds of stories, and to say we’re not so far off. And we’re going to read many more like it, where there’s so much that’s going on right at right in our midst. Nehemia: Yes. So let’s go on. But the one thing I just want to emphasize this - that we’re dealing with... Well, let’s go on. We’ve got to get through this story. Nehemia: Yes, we do. Nehemia: We’re going to say we don’t have enough time at the end. We got to do this. Keith: Yes. What verse are we in now? Nehemia: Verse 14. Keith: Okay, verse 14, “And now you are saying, ‘Go, say to your master, Behold, Elijah is here, he then will kill me.’” “Elijah said, ‘As Yehovah of hosts lives,’” and then again, we get this phrase, this swearing, this calling as a witness and putting it all on the line. Chai Yehovah, in verse 15, “‘before whom I stand, I will surely show myself to him today.’ So Obadiah went to meet Ahab and told him; and Ahab went to meet Elijah.” Nehemia: What does Elijah mean by “stood before him”? That’s really interesting. Keith: Go ahead. Nehemia: So one possibility is something we’ve talked about before. Jeremiah speaks about this - he’s challenging the false prophets, and the false prophets are speaking in the name of Yehovah based on a vision they had or something, or some kind of spirit that’s come and spoken to them. Jeremiah says, “The true prophets have stood in the Council of Yehovah in the heavenly court.” Keith: Amen! Yes. Nehemia: I believe Elijah here is saying, “I have stood before Yehovah. I was standing there and there He was sitting on His throne and He was surrounded by the angels and speaking.” I mean this is an image we’ve seen before, a picture, and I think this is alluding to that. “I’ve stood before Him.” It’s a very specific phrase. Keith: Let me ask a question. In yours, do you see this… is this in the past or is it the present? Because it’s interesting, in the NAS what they say is, “Yehovah of hosts lives before whom I stand.” Nehemia: Oh, no. It’s in the past tense, “asher amadeti.” Keith: But then, when I’m looking in the Hebrew it says it’s in the past. Nehemia: Yes. The perfect or past tense. Keith: It’s something “who I stood.” Yes. Nehemia: Yes. Keith: “So Obadiah went to meet Ahab and told him; and Ahab went to meet Elijah.” And then comes this phrase - sometimes I want to call you this phrase, Nehemia. No, I’m telling you I want to. He says, and let’s slow down and break this open. It says, “When Ahab saw Elijah, he says unto him, ‘Is this you, you troubler of Israel?’” Do you like that phrase? What do you think that phrase is? Nehemia: I think it’s ironic that Ahab is calling that to Elijah, because where do we get that phrase? We get it from Joshua chapter 7:24 to 25, and again in 1 Chronicles 2:7, where it’s speaking about this man named Achan, and they make a pun on his name, Achan, because it sounds like “achar,” which is troubler. Then when Achan, you know, he’s the guy who stole the gold from Jericho and they lost the battle because of it and it’s discovered, and he’s called “ocher Israel,” “the troubler of Israel.” That exact phrase appears in 1 Chronicles 2:7. Keith: Absolutely. Nehemia: “Ocher Israel,” “the troubler of Israel”, referring to this person who is the bad guy. Here, the king, who is a bad guy, is calling Elijah, who is the good guy, ocher Israel. And that’s, you know, those who call white black and black white; those who call bitter sweet, and sweet bitter; those who say left is right and right is left. The people who are evil and do bad don’t say, “Hey, I’m a bad guy.” Some of them do, but then there’s a certain type of bad person who says, “No, I’m righteous. What I’m doing is good and you’re the bad person,” and in Ahab’s eyes, he’s great. He’s the best thing since sliced bread. Keith: It’s funny, what does 18:18 say? Basically Elijah comes back and says, “I have not troubled Israel, but you and your father’s house.” Nehemia: I’ll be honest with you, in my ministry, Makor Hebrew Foundation, I recently put out this teaching about the name of Yehovah and looking at some of the possible connections between the pronunciation of that name and the name of the Roman god Jupiter. I won’t go into that, it’s a whole discussion. But I’ve had people who have basically written back to me, “O troubler of Israel.” Keith: Exactly. Nehemia: “You’re causing trouble in our congregation because you’re teaching this to people.” I’ve literally had people who say, “We can see that we agree with what you’re saying, but this is just too much trouble. This is going to cause division. We cannot teach this.” I feel like I'm Elijah being called “ocher Israel,” “the troubler of Israel.” Keith: Yes. Well, I think that’s good... Nehemia: Look, I mean, it’s burning up deep inside me. I’ve got to speak the truth. Keith: Nehemia, that’s where the good troubler of Israel phrase comes from. When in fact, if you’re being called a troubler because of bringing forth truth, giving people access to the information… I want to stop for a second, because we are here, Nehemia, and I know there are so many people that appreciate the work that’s been done through ministry that you’ve been a part of. Nehemia: Makor Hebrew Foundation. Keith: And what I’m doing. But it really is not something that’s easy. It’s not something that just... Nehemia: Oh, no. It’s not. Keith: And again, I don’t want to overly dramatize it, but to actually even physically be here right now is not an easy process. Nehemia: Your flight here was free, right? Keith: Yeah, right. I went to El Al and said, “Listen, I’m about to teach the Word of God.” Nehemia: “Look, I’ve got some important ministry, give me a free ticket.” How did that work out for you? Keith: I want to tell you something. It’s really funny. One of the things that people always have this sort of shocking view of me. When I’m waiting in line, you’ve got to go through security. And this actually happened, this happened twice. I wanted to bring people up to date. So I’m waiting to get on the plane from Hong Kong to here... Nehemia: Where your suitcase currently is. Keith: Yes, my suitcase is presently in Hong Kong with all my underwear. By the way, do you still have…? Nehemia: No! I gave the underwear back. I do not have your underwear. Keith: One of the things that I do, to try to calm things down, is I’ll speak in Hebrew. I’ll say a phrase in Hebrew or something like that. And every time they’ll say to me, “Why are you learning Hebrew?” Here’s this brown-skinned bald-headed guy who’s speaking Hebrew, and they’re looking at me like, “Are you trying to learn it for some other reason?” And I would bring my Bible out, I’d bring my Hebrew Bible, and I say, “Ani rotzhe lehavin.” “I want to understand this book, the most important book.” And you know what, this has been… Nehemia: Wow. Do they understand that? Keith: No, they absolutely… Listen, I’ve got to just tell you this. I’ve got to stop. I get into conversations with them, and they’re like, “So you’re from the United States, but you want to learn Hebrew to understand this book that we know to be the Word of God?” And that happened both in Hong Kong and when I got here, because they asked me a question. They said, “Who are you here to see?” And I made a mistake and I said, “Nehemia Gordon.” “You mean that troubler of Israel?!” Nehemia: They wouldn’t say that today. I’m known in Ben Gurion airport. Keith: No, but I went to explain to them, they said, “Well, how do you know him? How long have you known him? When did you meet him?” And it’s all around this, Nehemia. It’s all around this. I just have to tell you, it was a witness - when I say this, I say it carefully - a witnessing tool, a chance to just talk about the significance of the Word of God. And so BFA International, inspiring people to build a biblical foundation for their faith. I’m not only wanting to do that for me, obviously, personally, and what we do corporately, but I think that there’s just a great opportunity with the Word of God, to continue to bring it forward. I’ve appreciated the fact that you - and this is why I was so hard on you - you’ve always said, “We’ve got to find it in here. We’ve got to find it in here.” And there are some things that we can’t find. There are some things that we are not able to come up with an answer, and we do try to come up with different theories. But what I appreciate you saying is, “This is my opinion.” Nehemia: Yes. Keith: You know, look, I disagree with you on the whole Obadiah thing. I mean I’m thinking this is a guy who’s been there, who knows, he’s been brought in to assist. I still don’t know how he could be in the kingdom, and she’s trying to get rid of the prophets and he’s there saving... Nehemia: He’s hiding them there. Keith: So maybe you’re right. There’s got to be something there. Nehemia: Of course I’m right. All right, let’s go on. Troubler of Israel. Keith: Yes, you troubler of Israel. Nehemia: Can I just say one last thing about that? Keith: Yes. Nehemia: As I was reading this, about the phrase “troubler of Israel,” I was reminded of a phrase that appears in the Talmud, which is “the sinner of Israel.” There is this really mysterious figure in the Talmud called “the Sinner of Israel.” And my father, who is a Rabbi of blessed memory, had a theory about the sinner of Israel, that he was a certain historical figure that lived 2,000 years ago. Isn’t that interesting that, at least according to some rabbis, that Sinner of Israel was that particular person? And here we have the Trouble of Israel. Do they even realize what they were saying? Let’s go on. Let’s move on. Keith: Let’s move on. Nehemia: Yes. Keith: So it says here… Now, then this is the challenge. I love this. This is getting ready to be where we get to the nitty-gritty. “For he says, ‘Now then send and gather to me all Israel at Mount Carmel, together with 450 prophets,’” he knows the number, “of Baal and 400 prophets of the Asherah, who eat at Jezebel’s table.” That’s 850 false prophets. I mean what kind of a…? Nehemia: And they’re not just false prophets. They’re prophets of foreign deities, not just one deity. Keith: Absolutely. Nehemia: So I just want to give people a quick rundown on Asherah. Keith: Yes. Nehemia: We hear about her a lot in the Bible, not that much. There are a lot of people who confuse Asherah with Ishtar, or Ashtoreth, which were two different Canaanite goddesses. Ashtoreth, or Ishtar, Easter, was one of the wives of Baal. Asherah, from the best evidence we have from Canaanite sources, was the mother of Baal. Asherah was actually one of the wives of the most-high god, creator of heaven and earth, this is what the Canaanites believed and his son, one of his sons, was Baal. So here we have this image of the mother and the son, which is an image that you have like Isis and Horus in Egypt. This is kind of a universal theme in many cultures. But we’ve got Asherah, and the classical structure that we see in the Tanakh that it’s speaking against is they would have the altar to Baal, and there would be a tree, or a pole, next to the altar, which was the tree of Asherah. They would be juxtaposed one next to another. There’s even a verse that says, “Do not plant an Asherah next to the altar of Yehovah.” And that’s exactly what Israel did. When it says, “under every leafy tree”, it wasn’t just there for shade, that leafy tree was the tree of Asherah, the sacred tree. Keith: We won’t go into great detail about this, but one of the things that caught my attention is just Jezebel being a Sidonian, and what the Sidonians were well known for. What was their number one thing that they were well known about, what could they be? Nehemia: Commerce was their main thing. Keith: Commerce. What else did they do, that the Sidonians did? Nehemia: They made purple dye? Keith: No. What else, Nehemia? Nehemia: I don’t know. Those are the two things that come to mind. Keith: They built the tree! They were great craftsmen of the tree. They would cut the tree. This is what Solomon came to when he went to get the Sidonians. Nehemia: Right, well, because Lebanon is known for its… or it was known for its giant trees. Keith: Exactly. Yes. What did they do with those trees? Nehemia: They used them for rafters in the building of the temple. Keith: Absolutely. Nehemia: Yes, but the main things they were actually known for was making purple dye. That’s why the Greeks called the Sidonians, “Phoenicians.” Phoenicia means “the land of purple”. But they didn’t call themselves Phoenicians; they called themselves, actually, Canaanites. Keith: Yes, they were the Canaanites. Nehemia: They were Canaanites. Keith: So it says here, he tells the people, Let’s have the deal; go get your 850 people. “So Ahab sent a message among all the sons of Israel and brought the prophets together at Mount Carmel.” The sons of Israel and the prophets. Nehemia: And the prophets need to choose… or the people of Israel need to choose. Keith: Yes. So we know the story. We're going to get into this. “Elijah came near to all the people and said, ‘How long will you hesitate?’” And again, we’ve got to go to the Hebrew here because in the English... Nehemia: Wait. I don’t even know what your English says. Keith: I’m in verse 20. Hold on, verse 20. “So Ahab sent a message among all the sons of Israel and brought the prophets together at Mount Carmel. Elijah came near to all the people and said, ‘How long will you hesitate between two opinions? If Yehovah is God, follow Him; but if Baal, follow him.’ But the people did not answer him a word.” Come on now. Nehemia: Wow. What translation was that? Keith: That was the NASB. Nehemia: Okay. Let’s just look at a few translations on my computer here. Keith: Okay. Nehemia: And the word “hesitate,” I mean, that’s the Word of the Week, but it doesn’t say, “hesitate.” I was thinking, “what’s he reading?” Keith: Yes. Exactly. Nehemia: Oh, that’s their translation of 1 Kings 18:21? Keith: Yes. Nehemia: So the NIV has, “How long will you waiver between two opinions?” The JPS, the Jewish Publication Society, says, “How long will you keep hopping between two opinions?” Keith: I’m so excited you’re going to use this as the Word of the Week. You’re going to do it, right? Nehemia: Yes, of course. Keith: I mean this has got to be the Word of the Week. Nehemia: Right. And it’s appropriate because we’re facing the Aviv Search, we are probably a few weeks away from Passover, about a month from Passover, which in Hebrew is called Pesach. Pesach comes from the word in Exodus chapter 12 where it says for the plague of the first born, that Yehovah would pass over the houses of the Israelites and not smite the first born there. And that’s the word “pesach.” He would pass over and that’s how we have Passover. The word here, literally, is, “How long will you pass over the two branches? If Yehovah is God, go after him; and if Baal is god, go after him.” Actually, it could also be translated, as it is in the JPS, to hop back and forth. Because when you think about it, when you hop, you’re passing from one position to another, you’re popping around back and forth. And Yehovah popped over, hopped over the houses of the Israelites. How do we know that? What’s the connection? So to the Hebrew word for “lame”, meaning somebody who has a bad leg, can walk but he’s got a bum leg, that’s called “pise’ach,” which is a hopper, somebody who hops around; doesn’t literally maybe hop around, but he hobbles. So that’s the connection there. And then later we’ll have this word; I guess we’ll bring it now. So later, when they’re performing their ritual… this is in verse 26. Can I jump to verse 26? Keith: Yes. Go ahead. It’s important Nehemia: It says, “And they took…” this is the false prophets of Baal and Asherah, or the false prophets of Baal. It says, “And they took the bull which he had given them, and they made it,” or they did it, “and they called in the name of Baal from the morning until the afternoon, saying, ‘Answer us, Baal.’ And there was no voice, and no answer.” And it says, “vayefaschu,” and they “pass-overed the altar which he made.” And that’s interesting in itself. So they hopped back and forth. And one explanation of verse 26 is that they were actually performing a dance. Keith: Yes. Nehemia: That they were dancing around, maybe doing something like, instead of a rain dance, a fire dance for fire to come down from heaven. That they were hopping back and forth around the altar hoping that it would cause the god to answer them. But it’s literally, “And they pass-overed upon the altar which he made.” Who the “he” is, we’ll get that later, if we have time. So this is not an accident that it has the word passover there. This is alluding back to, in verse 26, it’s alluding back to verse 21 where he’s accusing them. He’s saying, “Look, you guys are hopping back and forth between the two different temples, which branch are you going to be on? Are going to be the branch of the tree of Yehovah? Or this other branch from this other tree? Which one are you going to do?” This is, of course, one of the most famous verses of the Bible. Get off the fence, which one are you… There’s actually a friend of mine,Jessica Kaye, who’s this wonderful singer who actually sings Hebrew songs with the name of Yehovah. She has a song about this - about jumping back between the two branches, and if Yehovah, go after Him; and if Baal, go after him. People have written songs about this. You can listen to that on YouTube. So the Word of the Week is pesach. Every word in Hebrew, we’ve said before, has a three-letter root. Here the three-letter root is pei, samech, chet. And pei, samech, chet is the exact same root as Pesach, as Passover, as the holiday. But here it means to hop back and forth. The JPS got it right. Keith: I have to tell you, when I first got a chance to look at this verse a couple of years ago and saw that word, I thought a lot about the practical position where people do this thing where they change from position to position, from thing to thing. Nehemia: Yes. Keith: We used to talk about, from my heritage, they talked about church-hopping. “This is the theology of the week right now; this group right here has got it right. No, they’re wrong. Now, let’s go to the next one.” I used to watch a movie called The Wizard of Oz. I don’t know if you knew about the Wizard of Oz. Nehemia: I’ve seen it. Keith: They had the horses of many colors; the colors would change. Nehemia: Oh, I don’t remember that. Keith: So literally, the horse, his color is red. Now, it’s green. Now, it’s yellow. But on a more serious note, one of the things that I think he’s saying that’s so important is to ask this question, “Is Yehovah God?” If Yehovah is God, then follow Him. There’s no sense of having to change any position. There’s no going from place to place. But if not, do this other thing. How long will you say He is, He isn’t. He is, and all through history, all through Israel’s history, you keep seeing this cycle, “Okay, Yehovah, you are God.” “Okay, but now we’re going to go and do this.” Nehemia: But I do think there’s a difference, and I want to contrast what Elijah’s dealing with versus, for example, in Jeremiah 28 and 1 Kings 22. In Jeremiah 28, we have Jeremiah facing Hananiah, the false prophet. Hananiah claims to be speaking in the name of Yehovah. So there it’s not, “Well, if Yehovah is God, don’t listen to Hananiah.” Well, no, wait a minute, Hananiah claims to believe in Yehovah too, and be speaking for Him. There it gets more complicated. But in the time of Elijah, we no longer are dealing with syncretism - that’s where you put the two things together - we’re dealing with this Sidonian cultural imperialism, where they’re trying to impose their religion upon us, and the people are saying, “Wow, this is the religion, the faith of the queen.” The queen is the most respectable woman in the entire nation. She’s not only a queen, she’s the daughter of a queen of a great country, of Sidon, which is a great world country. So they see this and they’re challenged by it. He’s saying, “Look, stop being challenged by it; make a choice. If you believe Baal is god, then go worship him. If you believe Yehovah is God, then you don’t need Baal.” Keith: Amen. You know it’s really interesting. I just came back from a place where there’s a lot of… I was in Africa, in Namibia, and there’s a lot of what they call… what do you call it? Nehemia: I don’t know. What do they call it? Keith: What’s the word that they use, like voodoo and things like that, where people use different things. Nehemia: Folk religion? Keith: So you’re talking about the hopping, and it says, “they were cutting themselves,” and we’re going to get to this in just a second. But just this idea that there’s this emotional, physical action that’s taking place to kind of build it up, build it up, build it up; in the end, there is no God but Yehovah, but yet these people were willing to do all these things, and we’re going to talk about it in just a second. But it says here, he tells them, he says, “Give us two oxen,” and then he lets them choose. Nehemia: Yes. Keith: You guys go ahead and take the choice. In other words, it’s not going to be a matter of which oxen it is. Go ahead and pick whichever one you want. Nehemia: Well it’s like, “Pick a card, any card.” Keith: Pick a card, any card. Nehemia: I’m not going to pick the card because then you accuse me of palming it and putting my card in. Keith: Exactly. Nehemia: You choose the ox, and so you can’t say, “Oh, he had the better ox.” Well, no - you chose the ox. Keith: “So put no fire under it and I will prepare the other ox and lay it on the wood, and I will not put fire under it.” I think that has added the word “under it”. But then, this is a little peeve that I have, this one little small thing I want to bring up, and this is an English issue, but I want you to challenge me on this. So why is it that we say… Let me read the verse, first, 18:24, “‘Then you call on the name of your god, and I will call on the name of the LORD,’” is what it says in English, L-O-R-D, “‘and the God who answers by fire, He is God,’ and all the people said, ‘That is a good idea.’” Now, let’s back up for a second. You’re going to think I was going to address one thing; I’m going to address something different. 18:24 says, “You call on the name of your god, your Elohim, and I will call upon the name…” And we always use “the name of.” We always say, “the name of.” In other words, in English, “of the Lord” makes sense. But

In Hebrew Gospel Pearls #13, Nehemia and Keith discuss how Jewish scribes changed Hebrew Matthew to make it match the Greek, the secret origin of the Hebrew word for praise, and why some Christians interpret the Beatitudes as a replacement for the Ten Commandments. I look forward to reading your comments in the Comments Section below! Download Audio https://audio.nehemiaswall.com/HGP/Hebrew-Gospel-Pearls-13-NehemiasWall.com.mp3 SUPPORT NEHEMIA'S RESEARCH AND TEACHINGS! Makor Hebrew Foundation is a 501c3 tax-deductible not for profit organization. Subscribe to "Nehemia's Wall" on your favorite podcasts app! iTunes | Android | Spotify | Google Play | Stitcher | TuneIn Share this Teaching on Social Media Related Posts: Hebrew Gospel Pearls PLUS #13 My Search for Hebrew New Testament Manuscripts Hebrew Gospel Pearls Torah and Prophet Pearls Hebrew Voices Episodes Support Team Studies Nehemia's Yehovah Research The post Hebrew Gospel Pearls #13 – How Jewish scribes changed Hebrew Matthew to make it match the Greek appeared first on Nehemia's Wall.

In this episode of Prophet Pearls, Tetzaveh (Ezekiel 43:10-27), Nehemia Gordon and Keith Johnson discuss Ezekiel describing the sin offering and the building plan for the Temple. Nehemia and Keith consider whether a spiritual or literal interpretation fits best with the minute details of the plan. We learn the iniquity for which Ezekiel’s listeners were (and we are) to be ashamed of, as well as the literal meanings of “temple” and “synagogue” and that word choice indicates world view. Word studies include: “Son of man / ben adam,”  “temple / ha-bayeet,” and “back / gav,”—the last of which provides linguistic proof for the pronunciation of God’s name. Gordon expounds on “ariel” (aleph-reish-yod-aleph-lamed) – a concept central to Ezekiel’s prophecy that has been lost in English translations. We also learn the family history of Zadok—from the days of Samuel to the Apostle Paul. In closing, Gordon and Johnson savor the last words of the Portion and the best news of all—“I will accept you, declares the Lord Yehovah.” "So the altar shall be four cubits; and from the altar and upward shall be four horns." (Ezekiel 43:15) I look forward to reading your comments! https://audio.nehemiaswall.com/Prophet-Pearls/Prophet-Pearls-20-Tetzaveh.mp3 Download Prophet Pearls Tetzaveh Transcript Prophet Pearls #20 - Tetzaveh (Ezekiel 43:10-27) You are listening to Prophet Pearls with Nehemia Gordon and Keith Johnson. Thank you for supporting Nehemia Gordon's Makor Hebrew Foundation. Learn more at NehemiasWall.com. Nehemia: Previously on Prophet Pearls, an American Israeli Jew in Texas met an African-American Methodist in China on the common ground of the ancient Hebrew prophets. Their internet did not work. The end. Keith: Okay. You promise me now this is the last introduction you’re going to do until we’re face to face. Nehemia: You don’t know what I wanted to do, I controlled myself. This might be the last episode we do before we meet each other on the physical common ground of the prophets in Jerusalem, Israel. Is that right? Keith: Yes. We’re going to be in the land of Israel and I’ll tell you something, I’m so inspired about it. For those who don’t know, we have been in what we call hand-to-hand combat with technology, international struggles, internet issues, phone issues. We’re going to try and get through this one today, and I have to just say ahead of time, I’d like for everyone that’s listening, it’s the end of February. It’s about to be March. The plan is that we’re going to be flying from different parts of the world and meeting in the land of Israel to be face to face again. As we started the way we started, we were face to face for I think almost 10 episodes. Nehemia: 11. Keith: Are you there? Nehemia: Yes, it was 11 episodes. Keith: Oh, I thought you said hello. I’m so sensitive. Nehemia: You’re traumatized by the internet. Keith: So no, we’re really struggling with this. I want to say ahead of time to the folks that have partnered with us, we’re so appreciative of everything that you’ve done. Our original plan was week-by- week and of course, we’ve had to increase our recordings and we’ll be sending something out. Obviously, by the time you get this, you’ll already hear about the fact that we’re asking you for any comments that you have. But here’s something I want to say to those that are listening, both our partners and others, that both of us at BFAinternational.com and Nehemiaswall.com - you’ll have the ability to leave comments and those comments are not just so we can say we had comments, but they’re really for interaction. We want people to be able to read it with us, to respond, to give us their insights, their thoughts, their questions. Don’t be overwhelmed, hundreds and hundreds of people are reading it. It’s the chance to be able to interact with the community. So we really want people to do that. Nehemia? You’re listening to the recording. Nehemia: Wait, because I’m not sure it’s been recording. No, no, now I think it is recording. I just had to be sure, I’m so nervous. We got cut off so many times. Keith: Okay. So as I mentioned, comments are very, very precious to us. They’re pearls, they’re community comments. So we want you to make those comments. And look, work with us on this last little recording from different parts of the world. But we’re going to try to get through this. Ezekiel, Nehemia. Nehemia: So what you’re really saying is that people are actually diving down into the ocean of Torah with us and the ocean of Scripture by leaving comments on the pages, and those are pearls as well. Keith: Absolutely. We don’t have all the pearls. Nehemia: You mean we don’t have the exclusive monopoly on the pearls? Keith: No, absolutely not. In fact, we really need people, especially in these next few weeks, we’re going to have you... Nehemia: Hallelujah. Amen. Nehemiaswall.com - leave your comments. Keith: Yep. Absolutely. Leave your comments. So Nehemia, real quick before we get into this, before we get into this Scripture, tell me where you are right now. Nehemia: Where I am? Keith: I mean, I want you to project, no, no. I want you to project yourself into the end of February. Nehemia: Oh, where I am at the end of February? So I think… let’s see. Well, this is, let’s just look at what we’re doing today. What we’re doing is the section on… it’s the Torah portion of Tetzaveh which is Exodus 27:20 through 30 verse 10, and the parallel portion that we’re doing now is Ezekiel 43 verses 10 to 27. It’s going to be read in the synagogues on February 28, 2015. At this point, I’m already going to be in Israel waiting for you. You may actually be on an airplane at this point. I’m not sure. You’ll be boarding the airplane maybe in the evening of this day. So I’ll already be in Israel getting things ready, preparing your room where you’re going to be staying. Making sure the cats are comfortable, but... Keith: That’s not a joke folks. So you’re going to be in Israel, and so what is it like for you when you’re not in Israel? How was that for you? Like, I’m just asking you this – I know we’re about to get into the Scripture, but for you to go back to Israel. So I mean, you know, you’ve been away from Israel for how long? Nehemia: Oh, every time I land at Ben Gurion airport in Tel Aviv, I feel like I’m fulfilling the prophecy of the ingathering of the exiles. I really do. It really is an amazing feeling. As I’m out here in Texas and in other places, I really do feel… In a way, I feel a connection with my ancestors who wandered the globe for 2,000 years. I’m the wandering Jew. The other day somebody asked me, “Where do you live?” I don't know how to answer that question, because I don’t live anywhere right now. It’s a spiritual experience as well, to be wandering in that sense. All of us in a sense are wandering in life through this desert of this spiritual exile as we are waiting for the Messiah to come - or some of us are waiting for the Messiah to return - and make the world right and end war and bring peace to the world. So in a sense it’s a microcosm, my experience now of the history of Israel, of 2,000 years, that’s how I look at it. Keith: I will tell you, I’ve been to Israel enough times now, especially since you and I hooked up in 2002. From 2002 until now I can’t count how many times I’ve been there, and in some situations I’ve been there twice or three times, as many as three times in one calendar year. I have to say it’s becoming something that… It never gets old. It never gets stale. Nehemia: Amen. Keith: It’s never, “Oh boy, I’ve got to go to Israel.” I just feel like I’m one of the most favored people to be able to get on an airplane. I was planning to be there for the tour, which we’re now on our third tour with BFA International, we’ll be on our third tour to Israel. But to have the opportunity to be there two weeks early - I really am looking forward to it. I believe based on this date that within about 24 hours, I’ll be boarding a plane in Shanghai, traveling through Hong Kong and getting over to Israel, and then we’ll be getting right into the Scripture. But today’s Scripture is Ezekiel 43, one of my favorite passages. Nehemia: I got to stop you because made a really profound statement, and you don’t even realize it, or maybe you do. You said about Israel, “It never gets old.” Isn’t that an amazing picture? Israel is an old land. It’s an ancient land. There are people living in Jerusalem whose house was built in the 1200s and that’s not even considered an ancient building. I mean, think about that. I’ll meet Americans who have a house that’s 50 years old and they’re like, “Oh, this house is so old.” I’m like, “What are you talking about?” That’s kind of like a picture of Israel. When Herzl wanted to inspire the Jews to return to their land, he wrote a book called Altneuland, which was in German, and it translates as Old New Land. When they translated the book into Hebrew, they said, “How do we translate this concept of an old new land?” Meaning the land is old, but it’s also new. That’s the power of the land - that it’s both old and new. Israel has some of the most cutting-edge innovation in the world. There are more high-tech startups in Israel, a country of 7 million people, than there are in the United States, a country of over 300 million people. There’s a guy who wrote a book, Startup Nation, about it. It’s an amazing country, both for its antiquity, its ancientness, its oldness, and for its newness, and that really is a picture of Israel, this old-new land. When they translated this book of Herzl's into Hebrew, Altneuland, they translated it as Tel Aviv, because Tel is the mound of an ancient city and Aviv is the new ripening barley, it’s the new grain. It’s that contrast - that’s actually a place named in the Bible, in the book of Ezekiel, called Tel Aviv. So they translated Altneuland as Tel Aviv, and I think that’s appropriate, because as this is coming out in February, the reason I’m coming to Israel - in addition to doing this program with you - the main reason I’m going to Israel is actually for what we call the Aviv Search. That’s where we scour the land of Israel, searching for the new barley, for the new ripening grain, which marks the beginning of the year. My ancestors, for 2,000 years - less than 2,000 years - for 1,600 years, they talked about how when they returned to the land, when they would be brought back to the land of Israel, gathered back in the ingathering by the King Messiah, that they would restore the biblical calendar. In 359 A.D. Hillel II established the calendar that’s used by most Jews today. It’s the Rabbinical calendar. Some people just call it the Jewish calendar. But really, the rabbis themselves say it didn’t exist until 359 A.D. when the Romans abolished the Sanhedrin, and back then they said, “Well, as soon as the Messiah comes and defeats the Romans, gathers back in the exiles and brings world peace, we'll go back to following the biblical calendar.” Now we’re back in the land and we don’t have world peace yet and there are definitely challenges, and we see some of those challenges actually in the Aviv Search. One of the main areas we go and look for the barley is in the northwestern Negev, which is on the border of Gaza, and there’s some risk involved. I’ve been there when we had rockets fired on us during the Aviv Search and we had to run into air raid shelters during the Aviv Search. But now we’ve been doing this for over 20 years, going around the land of Israel, looking for the new part. We've got the old - that you see everywhere, and the new, you’ve got to look for it. When you find it that marks the beginning of the new Hebrew year, the first new moon after that. And so, this is what’s going on right now, it’s about to happen. So I do want to invite people to go over to the Nehemiaswall.com, and you could actually be part of this Aviv Search by supporting the efforts of what we’re doing. Make sure to sign up for my free newsletter so you can get live updates right from the field, as we’re driving through these places and looking at the barley, we’re going to update you on what’s going on. So go over to Nehemiaswall.com. Keith: So Nehemia, I’m going to do something. This is the last time before we’re together physically. I want people to be sure that they understand what you just said, because you spoke about the significance of Israel. You spoke about the significance of history, and you talked about what you’ve been doing now for how many years? How many years have you been looking for the Aviv? Nehemia: So people have been doing it since 1988. I got involved in 1992, so I don’t know how many years. That’s 23 years? 24? Keith: Yeah. That’s amazing. So 23 years you’ve been doing this, and you have people from different parts of the world who actually physically join you, and I’ve got the chance to do it. Yes, I’ve been able to do that with you, and it really is amazing. In fact, I’m going to make an offer of something here, related to what you’re talking about with that. But let me just say this. For people that really maybe they don’t have the ability like the people that are coming on the tour, BFA tour, people that are going to be there with the Aviv Search. But what you’re really offering people is a chance for them to be a part of it, and one of the ways that they can be a part of it is to help support it, because what people have to realize is that it actually does cost - I mean, gas costs and renting cars and going from place to place. People around the world are waiting, “What time of the year is it? What time is it in the land of Israel?” This is one of the ways that they can be a part of it. So again, they go to Nehemiaswall.com, and there’s information there for how they can, they can support it. Nehemia: Yes, absolutely. I don’t know if people are aware of this, but we have this image in Judaism of Issachar and Zebulun, those two brothers. Issachar, his name means “there is reward”, and the traditional understanding is that Zevulun, or Zebulun, that he would actually go out and work and raise the resources for Issachar to then study Torah and live the Torah and make the Torah live so that other people could live it as well. In other words, Issachar was in ministry and Zebulun worked. He didn’t have the aptitude or the time or the capacity to do what Issachar did. Frankly, Issachar didn’t have the aptitude, time or capacity to do what Zebulun did, but together they had this symbiosis where one of them devoted himself to Torah and the other one devoted himself to earning a living so he could support the other one. So I want to invite people to enter into me with the relationship of Issachar and Zebulun, and you will be involved in the Aviv Search even if you’re thousands of miles away. Keith: Awesome. That’s awesome. Well, we’re going to get into the Scripture, but I just want to say today is the 28th. We’ll be together in March, it’s some time that we’re going to be together. One of the things I want to do to celebrate that time and to help people enjoy the experience is just to make available the Aviv Search, that you did invite me on, where I actually had the camera. Just going to make it available for free, no registration, it will just be on the page. We’ll talk about it in March. But it really is an awesome opportunity for people to physically see the process that you go through. And for me, even though I had been on it before, it was just phenomenal, each time it’s phenomenal, and the things that people learn and the things that you get a chance to see and the places that you get a chance to be. So, once we’re physically together, remind me, I’m going to try to remember to do this, because I’d love for people to see exactly what it is that you did, and that was really an honor to do that. Nehemia: So this is a program, like a video they can see, just to be clear, on BFAinternational.com, right? Keith: Yep. They’re going to make a video available on the ninth month, searching for the Aviv it’s called Biblical Time. Again, I won’t bore you guys with it right now, but I am going to just make that offer right while the internet is still working, so when I physically get there we’ll push some buttons and have some people make it available so people can see exactly what you’re doing. I think that’s going to be a way for people to want to enter in. I really want to strongly encourage people to support this process, because as people are looking for what time it is, this is a very practical way for us to actually know what time it is according to Scripture. So anyway, let’s get right into Ezekiel. Hopefully, we will be able to get in this without stopping six or seven times. I hate to complain folks, but it’s been a challenge. This is, like I said, our last one before physically being together. We’re starting in verse 10. I want to make sure that that’s the verse that you have in the Hebrew Bible. I’ve got my Hebrew Bible open, my NIV open. I’ve got a number of other things here, but I realize the last time, one of the reasons that we had a challenge is that I clicked one of my computer issues and when that program came up, it cut off, so I won’t be able to do that. So you’re going to have to really have that computer of yours working today. Nehemia: Because you’re talking on the computer. Keith: Yes, exactly. Exactly. So, we’re at Ezekiel 40… let me just get here. Ezekiel chapter 43 verses 10 through 27. Are those verses that you’re looking at in your Bible? Nehemia: Same verses. Keith: Awesome. In the English Bible… Nehemia: Well actually, come to think of it, I don’t know that they’re the same verses, I’m just looking at the Hebrew. I’ve got to compare it to the English. Oh yes. It looks like it’s the same verses in English. Keith: Yes, it is. I’ve already compared… Nehemia: The verses are the verses I’m looking at. Keith: Exactly. This is what we are on. Before we get started, I just want to say thanks to Duane, Ginny, and Kelly, who are helping us - Prophet Pearls Partners. Nehemia: Thanks guys. Keith: I sent a note to them, but I’d like to ask them to have their comments ready and to make them available on Nehemiaswall.com, BFAinternational.com, to join in with the other people that are helping us dive for these precious pearls in the Prophets. So, Nehemia, can we get started with… I have to start right away. I just have to ask a question right off the top. When you see verse 10, the first word I’m looking here in my Hebrew Bible, it says here “Ata ben adam”, and when you see in English, it says, “son of man.” What’s the first image that you get when you hear that? Nehemia: Son of man? The first image I get is that he’s a human being, because in Hebrew it’s “Ben Adam”, “the son of Adam”. Yehovah is this immortal divine being, and He’s speaking to this mortal being who He then refers to as “son of Adam”. I don’t know - what else would you get from it? Keith: No, no, no. I’m just asking you. So when you see that… Nehemia: That’s what it sounds like to me - that it’s God speaking to a mortal human being. For example, if you look in the JPS they’ll translate it as, “now you, o mortal, describe the Temple to the house of Israel.” So they translate it… I mean, that is really… the Jewish understanding is ben adam is simply mortal flesh and blood human being. Keith: Okay. Yes. Nehemia: Should we make that the Word of the Week? Ben adam? Well, that can’t be the Word of the Week. We’ll get to the Word of the Week. Keith: Well, no, it can’t be the Word of the Week. We have some more things here. But then it says to him… good you got the Word of the Week, you got the introduction, it’s your last introduction for a while. Let’s ask this question. So again, when you see Isaiah, or when you see Exodus chapter 27:20 to 30:10, and then Ezekiel 43:10 through 27, there’s an obvious connection. What is it for you? Nehemia: So it’s the Tabernacle in Exodus, and here it’s the building of what we refer to in Judaism as the Third Temple. We had the First Temple under Solomon, the Second Temple under Zerubavel, who then was… it was then renovated by Herod. But the Third Temple, the final temple, will be built by the King Messiah, and that’s the one described in the Book of Ezekiel, the one that we’re looking forward to in the future. That’s how I understand it. Keith: We did something, for those who don’t know, we’ve been talking about this, and we’ve been talking about it a little bit more this week, especially. In fact this week, as you’re listening to this particular recording, we’ve got a little something that we’re going to put a little spice out there to show the picture of what Nehemia and I actually did in the past. But what we’re doing now, coming together, we’ve taken a combination between trains, planes, automobiles, and even motorcycles we’ve been on to be able to get together. And so getting together, because it reminds us of the Original Torah Pearls that we did where we actually discuss this section in depth. So, you can, again, go to nehemiaswall.com… Nehemia: You mean the Exodus section we talked about? Yes. The Original Torah Pearls. Keith: Yes, the Exodus section. And BFAinternational.com, where we did the Original Torah Pearls, for those that don’t know, we haven’t said this for a long time. We originally did a show together in... I can never remember the year. Was it 2011 or 2012? Nehemia: I think it was 11 and 12… Keith: So we did that for 52 sessions… Nehemia: Well it had to be, because we did the last ones… Yes, it was definitely 2011-2012. Keith: Okay, so awesome. It was a full year of doing the Torah portions, and then we call that the Original Torah Pearls, and like I said, that’s available right now on both sites. What’s nice about that is you can listen to what we’re talking about now, you can stop this recording if you want to, go and listen to what we were talking about in Exodus, and then what’s great about this, what I love about this and why we tried to do this before and we were stopped in our tracks - it’s a beautiful picture. It’s like you have the Torah portion, you listen to it, you read it, you go through that section, and then you hop on over to Prophet Pearls, where you’re able to hear it and then you kind of got the whole role. It kind of reminds me of Ezekiel, you know…. Nehemia: Can I just say something really controversial, or should we just move on? Keith: Oh boy. Okay. I don’t know if we should edit it. Go ahead and say it, Nehemia. Nehemia: So we did the Original Torah Pearls, and it was in the spirit of common ground. Then as we were beginning to do Prophet Pearls, I had some issues in my life, and that was one issue. But then there were some other things as well where that common ground began to be shaky and that’s why we’ve kind of done something, continued a little bit differently than the Original Torah Pearls. Keith: You’re telling me that’s controversial? Nehemia: We say in Hebrew “Vehamaskil yavin,” the wise shall understand. Keith: Well it’s not controversial. Nehemia: Okay. Keith: What I’m going to say is that it really was a joy to do Torah Pearls, and I stand on what we did. Nehemia: Absolutely. Keith: My point is that the Torah Pearls program, which is now at this point, like I say, that stands in history as an opportunity where we came together in a spirit of really seeking to find out where we had common ground. And again, to do this program right now is in that same spirit. So I just have to say again, as I said, we’re at the end of February as the people are listening to this. The next couple of weeks are going to be really special, and it’s going to be a challenge. Nehemia: Just to be clear, we’re talking about the Original Torah Pearls, I was involved and you were involved. What other people are doing has nothing to do with us. Keith: So there are other people doing something, or…? Nehemia: There are other things that people are calling “Torah Pearls” that really aren’t in the spirit of what we did. It’s just really a different spirit. It’s just definitely not Torah Pearls in the authentic sense of what we did. Frankly, I don’t know why they’re calling it that. Keith: It’s a brand name mix-up. Nehemia: I think there’s maybe some… well I shouldn’t say anymore, but yes. Let’s focus on the common ground and leave those who want to burn bridges to a different deal. Keith: Very good. Okay. Now that was controversial. Nehemia: Let’s move on before it gets too late. Keith: Otherwise, I’ll give you another paragraph and it’s over. Nehemia: All right. Keith: So let’s jump into this because he’s speaking here… again, there’s the Mishkan, we’ve got the Temple, Ezekiel is going to come forward. We’ve talked about this before, even in last week’s discussion we talked about the size of the Temple and measurements and all those sorts of things. But what I think is interesting is it says here, “Let them consider the plan.” Let me back up. “Describe the Temple to the people of Israel that they may be ashamed of their sins.” Now I want to ask a question. In English, when we say “describe the Temple,” it just seems to me that… He says, “describe the temple”. It just kind of seems when you say “the Temple,” temple could kind of mean anything. Nehemia: How could it mean anything? Keith: At least, I don’t know how to say this. I’ll use the word temple, meaning The Temple. Nehemia: So in English, we say Temple with a capital T, it’s the Jerusalem Temple. In Hebrew, we’d say “Beit Hamikdash”, although this verse just says “Habayit,” the house. But everyone knows in this context what house we’re talking about. This is the… Keith: That’s what I wanted to get to. I wanted to get to that part. I love the way that it describes the Temple. Habayit, the house. What’s the house for? “He built the house,” is what it said last time, when you went to Chronicles, “He built the house for the name,” and it goes on… I mean, I just, I don’t know. House is so descriptive to me. What do you have at a house? The house is there for something. A temple of this and a temple of that, and the Masons have temples and all this, but the Temple or the House. There’s only one of those things. Nehemia: You might not be aware of in the Jewish world, there’s a huge controversy. One of the biggest controversies probably of the 20th century or the 19th century, but still raging today, is that Orthodox and conservative Jews refer to their synagogues in Hebrew as Beit Knesset. In English, they call it a synagogue, which is a Greek word that means “to gather together.” The Hebrew Beit Knesset is the “house of gathering.” But the reform Jews who started out in the 1800s called their synagogues “temple”. So you’ll have Temple this, Temple Emanuel or whatever. Why did they call it temple? Because in their theology, in their ideology, the temple of Ezekiel will never be built. They say that this is just some kind of a fantasy that the prophet had, and it’s not actually something that’s going to be built in the future, because that would indicate that what we’re doing today is deficient, is not ideal. It’s that it’s exilic. There’s this idea of negation of the diaspora, negation of the exile - meaning that we say the exile is not… not the perfect situation, and they can’t accept that, the reform Jews. They say, “No, that’s just some ancient fantasy. The way we’re living today, this is how it’s supposed to be, and the temple is wherever we build a temple.” So that’s actually a really big controversy, and it actually helps me understand what it says here. “Now you, o son of man, describe the Temple to House of Israel, and let them measure its design, but let them be ashamed of their iniquities.” So what’s the shame? The shame is that this Temple hasn't been built yet and it’s because of our iniquities that it hasn’t been built yet. Keith: Boy, you just really… I have to tell the folks - we’ve been in a number of places, we’ve actually spoken together in synagogues, we’ve spoken together in churches, we’ve spoken together in fellowships, we’ve spoken together on the field, under tents, on trains, planes… But one of the places that we went, that I never quite was able to deal with, is we went to a reform synagogue… Nehemia: They’ll say it’s a synagogue but the name of it will be called Temple whatever, and I don’t even remember the name of that temple. Keith: Whatever it was, it was Temple something and we’re going to have a Torah study. The problem was I couldn’t be in the inner circle. I had to sit on the outside of the circle, and you got a chance because you’re Jewish. Nehemia: Oh you’re talking about that one? Keith: No, I’m going to tell you what happened. Nehemia: That’s not the one we spoke at. Keith: So you sat in there, and we’re going to have a Torah study. So I’m sitting on the outside with someone and you’re sitting on the inside with the rabbi, who happened to be a lady, if you remember. Nehemia: Yeah, yeah. That’s a different story, okay. Keith: Then she opened up the Torah and started talking, and I think within the first five minutes, something came up about Moses. Do you remember this? Nehemia: So just to be clear, we spoke at a reform temple in the Atlanta area – that’s not what we’re talking about. We love those people. We’re still in touch with the cantor there. He’s a great guy. Hey, Mark. But you’re talking about a different situation in a different state where we… And so, yes, the reform rabbi at the other temple asked me… She was trying to explain to her congregants what the difference between reform and Karaites are. Because you might look at them and say, “Well, wait a minute. They both reject the authority of the rabbis, they’re not that different.” So she asked me… for the purpose of explaining to her congregants, she said, “How do you understand the Torah? What do you understand it to be?” I said, “I believe it’s the perfect word of God revealed through Moses.” The reform rabbi’s response was, “See, that’s where we differ. I’m not sure of… For me, the jury is still out about whether Moses existed or not.” Keith: That’s what I wanted to bring up. Nehemia: That was her… She brought this up. I wasn’t trying to be controversial. I was a guest in her house, I don’t want to argue, but you ask me a question, I’m going to tell you the answer. So yes, to me there’s no question that Moses existed, no question that he wrote the Torah, and it’s the basis of the entire history of Israel. We’re not in a good place now as a people, as a world… We’re in a fallen world. We live in a world of exile. Jews have their physical exile, but the whole world is in exile because we’re waiting for the Messiah to come and reign as a flesh and blood king over Israel, to bring peace to the world, to gather in the exiles, to end war, to end starvation. As long as this temple… it’s like this temple here that’s being described in Ezekiel 43 and the following chapters in a way is almost taunting us, saying, “This is what you could have if you would just repent.” That’s why I think it says, “But let them be ashamed of their iniquities.” Keith: Well that’s definitely the case. I mean, if you look at what’s happening right now, and then the people that are calling for that change of heart and change of action and change of venue and all of that. I think there are a lot of issues that we could talk about regarding this, and we have discussed them. Maybe we’ll be able to discuss them a little more. Nehemia: Just to be clear what I’m saying. If you look in the Torah, especially Deuteronomy 4 and in other places, Deuteronomy emphasizes this, but it’s really a central message in the Hebrew Scriptures, which is that… There are a lot of people out there who are calculating the times. They know the day and the hour of the exact year based on certain things that are going to happen. They’ll tell you it’s May 21st, 2012, and there’s a big billboard here in Texas that says it’s like some time in 2017 or something like that, or 2027. The Jewish perspective is completely different. Our understanding based on the Torah, based on the Hebrew Scriptures, is that God is just waiting for us to repent, and… this Temple will not be built. We can’t force it. What we have to do is repent and when we repent, then He’ll come and let it happen. But until then we should just be ashamed that it’s not built. Keith: Wow. Okay. Well, it says… and it gives the design, talks about the regulations, “Write these down before them so that they may be faithful to this design and follow all of its regulations.” And then verse 12… Nehemia: Can I just say, isn’t it interesting that when Zerubavel built his temple, he didn’t even attempt to follow these regulations? He knew his temple was not the temple promised in Ezekiel. He knew that. How did he know that? Because they didn’t have the high priest with the Urim and the Tumim, they didn’t have the fire come down from heaven and consume the sacrifice. He knew. He knew that wouldn’t be the final one. Keith: Well then it gets in verse 12, it says, “This is the law of the Temple,” or if I can say, “This is the Torat of the bayit, of the house.” Then it says here, “Upon,” and now I’m looking at two things, so bear with me here Nehemia. I’m looking at two things. It says, “All the surrounding area on top of the mountain,” and I just have to say this because I like this kind of thing. In the Hebrew Bible when it has like words together, it says, “Saviv saviv kadosh kodeshim.” It’s like you get this… I don’t know what it is about the Hebrew Bible, but you have these phrases, and when they come up, I don’t know what it is – it kind of jumps off the page, maybe because the words are the same or because you know… whatever it is, it’s happening. But the thing that hits me is it says that all of the surrounding area, “Saviv saviv,” on top of the mountain… Nehemia: So on top of the mountain is very misleading. In Hebrew, it says, “Al rosh hahar”, which means the top top, the peak of the mountain. We actually talked last week about... There’s the theory now that the Temple, the original Temple wasn’t at what today is called the Temple Mount. Keith: C’mon, c’mon, c’mon. Nehemia: That it was down the hill, above the Gichon Spring. That doesn’t fit here at all. It says “Al rosh hahar”, on the top of the mountain, on the peak of the mountain. That is what we call today the Temple Mount. It’s not something downhill. You know what? Keith: There it is. Nehemia: David had his palace downhill, but above his palace, that was the Temple. He would look up at that tent, he would look up from his palace at the tent and he could see there was the tent, and inside the tent was the Ark of the Covenant where later Solomon built the Temple on the place of the threshing floor of Aravna the Jebusite. Why would the Jebusite Aravna have a threshing floor in the middle of the city next to the royal palace? That makes no sense. You have the threshing floor outside the city, next to the fields where you can bring your grain and get all the chaff to blow away, and it just doesn’t fit. You also have it on top of the hill. That makes a lot of sense because then the wind comes and blows away the chaff and keeps the seed. Isn’t that a prophetic picture? Can I get an amen? Keith: Isn’t that a prophetic picture? And so you read this… This is just another example again, of the whole of Scripture, because if you just take one section and you look at one section and you say, “Okay, this is going to be my study, this one little section, and I’m not going to look at anything else and I’m going to understand all the depth and all the issues regarding this one little section,” but you don’t put it in context, then something like this doesn’t get a chance to come in and bring an aspect that, you know, you just answered something that we didn’t talk about last week. Last week you didn’t talk about this description… Nehemia: What do you mean? I was talking about it when you were cut off. No, I’m just kidding. Keith: Yeah, you probably were, because I didn’t listen and I’m not going to listen, I’m protesting last week’s Prophet Pearls. Anyway. But then it gets to this, “and these are the measurements.” Now, what I like about this is that… I mentioned last week - before I got cut off - that there is this - I think it was last week - there’s a discussion about what the measurements of the Mishkan were or what the measurements were Solomon’s Temple. But then we get to Ezekiel, and now we’re talking about the specific measurements. Now, it might be an obvious thing to you. [imitating Nehemia] “It’s obvious why this is the case.” But when you get these measurements, what is the reason for the measurements? I think it’s because this is what they have to build. Nehemia: As opposed to what? Keith: No, this is my point. Nehemia: Like, I don’t understand. Of course that’s the reason for the measurements. Keith: You say it’s an obvious issue. No. Because what people will do is they’ll say, “Okay, we’re going to get into the issue of what the measurements were, not for the purpose of the measurements, because there’s some hidden meaning. There’s some deep, hidden meaning to what the measurements are, versus what the purpose of the measurements are.” Nehemia: You know what this reminds me of? In archeology they excavated and they found remains of King David’s palace, and it’s in the city of David, and it’s called the Step Stone Structure. I studied it at Hebrew University of Jerusalem during my Bachelor’s degree, and the area where they found it, all the tour guides point out that this is called Area G. That’s what the archeologists dubbed this area, Area G. They’ll start to give you reasons why it’s called G. “This is where God was detected.” They'll come up with all kinds of explanations of G, and we used to laugh about this in archeology class, because why is it called Area G? What archeologists do is they break up the site, the archeological site, into A, B, C, D, E, F, G, H, I - into squares of 5 meters by 5 meters, and it happens to be in the 5x5 meter square where they found the Step Stone Structure, part of David's palace, that was in G. They found other things at F, and they found other things at H. So there’s no spiritual significance of it being called G, and maybe that’s the case here. We’ve got these measurements, and it’s 4 cubits, and it’s this number of cubits, and I guess you could come along and say, “Why is it 4 cubits? Because the Hebrew letter Dalet is the fourth letter of the alphabet representing the number 4, and that’s the Dalet, that door to understanding.” Maybe it’s 4 cubits because God didn’t want it to be 5 cubits or 3 cubits. Like, come on! Keith: But sometimes… let me just say this… Look, there’s enough depth for when there is depth. It’s just amazing. Just absolutely amazing. I mean, you could say in Noah’s Ark… what was the spiritual meaning of Noah’s Ark? He says, “Look, this is going to be the boat. These are going to be the measurements of the boat because I’m telling you how to build the boat,” right? Or there are other times you see something like, “Wow, that really is amazing. That’s right there.” When it’s not there, you ask yourself, “So what’s the purpose?” What I’m trying to do is kind of take a step back after talking about what the... Nehemia: Look, if the number was 7 or 70 or 77, then we’d have something to talk about, but it’s 4 cubits, 2 cubits, 40 cubits, like… I don’t know. Keith: Okay, so we have this section about, He’s talking about the half cubit, the cubit. You know, we all have this, and I have to just say again, and I hate to say this, but I’m very nervous because if this gets cut off two or three times, I don’t know if I’m going to be able to continue talking. We’re talking about the cubits. Nehemia: Why are you speaking this negativity? Speak the positive. Name it and proclaim it, Johnson! Keith: Let me say verse 18. Nehemia: 18? What are you talking about? What happened to verse 13? We’ve got to talk about verse 13, we’ll do it real quick. So, the last three words are “Ze gav hamisbe’ach.” This is... how is yours translated “Ze gav hamisbe’ach” in verse 13? Keith: It says here, “the height of the altar.” Nehemia: “The height.” What’s the Hebrew word, Keith? Tell me. Gav, what is gav? Keith: I have to go to the end of 13. Hold on here. Just a second. Act like you’re typing. Nehemia: Okay. So what do you have there? So gav, what’s the Hebrew word? The Hebrew word gav means “back”. Keith: So it was like gav, like elevation. Nehemia: Right. But that’s not what gav means. Gav literally means back, like the back of your body. And so what’s the back of the altar? The altar is kind of like this… almost looks like a lion lying down, crouching. It’s got this ramp going up to it. So the back is the top flat part, absolutely. But gav literally means back. Why is that significant? Well, how is gav spelled? Keith: Gimel-Bet. Nehemia: Right. How come it’s not gab, how come it’s gav? The answer is that the most basic thing you’ve learned in Hebrew - literally in kindergarten I learned this - when people learn Hebrew, they learn that the letter bet, if it has a dot in it it’s a “B”, if it doesn’t have a dot, it’s a “V”. Now that will be surprising to some people, because they’ve been told that there was no V in ancient Hebrew. Obviously, that’s not true because ancient Hebrew clearly has the V sound. Where they’re getting confused is they’re being told that the Vav was originally a Wa. In fact, I just watched a video the other day on YouTube that someone sent me, and he was very upset. He said, “I need to understand, why are you saying Yehovah? Clearly it’s Yehowah?” He shows me this video where the guy says, “For certain historical reasons, we know that the Vav was originally a Wa.” I say, “What are those historical reasons?” I challenge anyone to show me those historical reasons. I’ve looked at all the history of it, that is utterly… there’s no evidence for that. On the contrary, do you have access to 1 Kings chapter 14 verse 9? Are you able to open that up or will that crash the computer and the program? Keith: I don’t want to crash the computer. You can go ahead and turn… Nehemia: Okay, in 1 Kings 14:9, the last word in the verse is the word gav, meaning back. It even says in English, “has cast me behind thy back,” and the word for back there is spelled with a Vav. So in some places the word for back is spelled with a Vav, and other places that word for back is spelled with what we call the soft Bet. Now everybody agrees, in Jewish sources, all Jews agree that the soft Bet is pronounced to “V”. Why would it sometimes be spelled with the soft Bet, V, and other times with the Vav if the Vav was pronounced as a Wa? Keith: Because you don’t understand Nehemia, that when it spells it with the Vav, they’re actually talking about the back of that which you can’t see. This is a hidden meaning. Nehemia: We could look at instances of where gav is spelled with a Vav and where it’s spelled with a bet, and you’ll see actually in Ezekiel itself, he spells it both ways and it doesn’t change the meaning, in both cases it’s back, whether it’s the back of an altar or the back of a person, it’s a back. David uses it speaking about his back, spelling it with a Bet in the Psalms. The point is, what I’m trying to say here, for those who don’t know Hebrew, and this might sound a little complicated if you don’t know Hebrew, is that the people who told you that the ancient Hebrew didn’t have a V sound simply don’t know what they’re talking about, because Hebrew had a soft Bet, and that’s not disputed by Hebrew scholars, that ancient Hebrew had this V sound for the soft Bet. There are certain words that can be spelled either with a Vav or a soft Bet without changing the meaning, and that tells me, at least, some Israelites pronounced the Hebrew letter Vav as a V the same way they pronounce soft Bet. Keith: Well that’s golden. Nehemia: Yes, that might be too complicated if you don’t know Hebrew, but… They talk about certain historical reasons… this is a text in Scripture that shows me clearly that somebody is interchanging soft Bet and Vav and they’re both pronounced as V. I mean I don’t know how you can ignore that proof. So anyway… Can we jump ahead to verse 15 and talk about the Ariel? Keith: Okay, let’s do it. Nehemia: Okay. Can you read me verse 15? It’s verses 15 and 16 in your Methodist translation. Keith: Yes. It says, “The altar hearth is 4 cubits high and 4 horns project upward from the hearth. The altar hearth is square, 12 cubits long and 12 cubits wide. The upper ledge also is a square, 14 cubits long and 14 cubits wide with a rim of half a cubit.” Nehemia: Yes. So the word they’re translating here as “altar hearth”, and other translations just say altar, is the word in Hebrew Ariel. In one place it’s pronounced Harel, or written Harel, and in other places it’s Er’el. But the word for example here, it says, “And the Ariel above, there four horns and the Ariel,” et cetera in verse 16. So Ariel, and you completely lose that word in the English. That’s amazing to me that this word that is so significant, that’s the center of a prophecy, it’s the central concept in a prophecy in Isaiah 29. Just to remind you, Isaiah 29 starts out, “Hoy Ariel, Ariel kiryat chana David”, “Woe to Ariel, Ariel the city where David dwelt.” So that’s how the prophecy starts out in Isaiah 29, and this Ariel repeats itself. It appears again in the prophecy in verse 7. It’s somewhere there. Let’s see… in Isaiah, oh, it’s in 29:2, “Yet I will distress Ariel and there shall be heaviness and sorrow.” Then verse 7, “And the multitude of all the nations shall fight against Ariel.” So three, four times actually, we have a reference to Ariel, and what is Ariel in that context? It clearly is the city of David, it says that. But how does Ariel come to mean the city of David? Ariel literally means “the lion of God”. Specifically, we can see from Ezekiel 43, Ariel refers to the altar. That is the name of the altar. Or really, if we want to be technical, it’s the title of the altar, and the altar is called Lion of God, and that’s why it has a back, as I mentioned, which they translate as “height”, but the Hebrew literally means a back. So you know the Lion of God. Here it’s really interesting. Once you see that, then you start to see other connections with this Ariel. For example, 2 Samuel chapter 23 verse 20 says, “And Vinaya, the son of…” this is talking about the heroes of David, the warriors. “And Vinaya the son of Yehoyada, the son of a valiant man of Kavtzael, who had done many acts, he slew the two lion like men of Moav. He went down also and slew a lion in the midst of a pit in the time of snow.” That’s the King James version. What it actually says in Hebrew is “He slew the two Ariels of Moav.” What on earth are the Ariels of Moav? It’s not entirely clear. Moab, obviously, is the neighbor of Israel. There was some kind of war between Moav… we know about the war between Moav and Israel, Israel won. He slew the two Ariels of Moav. Many scholars say, “Well, Ariel means lion of God,” so in some contexts lion of God refers to the altar. In some contexts it refers to a hero, meaning the champion. They bring the example of Goliath, who was the champion of the Philistines, that the Israelites and the Moabites all had these champions, and that was referred to as an Ariel. And that’s possible. Isaiah 33:7 mentions Ariel as well. It says there, Ariel. “Behold their valiant ones shall cry without the ambassadors of Pesha, weep bitterly,” and it says in Hebrew, “behold their Ariel shall cry outside.” So that may refer to this warrior, who was called the Lion of God. That same word then is applied to the city of Jerusalem and to the altar itself, which is at the heart of the city of Jerusalem. So you lose all of that when you just translate it as “the hearth of the altar” or “altar”. One more passage which is not in the Tanakh. It’s actually in the Meshah Stele. There was a king of Moab, of the Moabites, called Mesha, Mem-Yud-Shin-Ayin, and Mesha set up a large monument in which he wrote in Moabite, which is almost identical to biblical Hebrew, he described his victorious war against Israel. It’s actually the opening verses of 2 Kings, describing the same war, pretty cool. He says, “The men of Gad,” G-A-D, not G-O-D, the tribe of Gad, “The men of Gad dwelt in the land of Atarot forever, and the King of Israel built up for himself Atarot.” That’s a city in Transjordan. “I fought against the city.” This is Mesha speaking, the King of Moav. “I fought against the city and captured it. I killed all the people and offered the city as a sacrifice to Kamosh.” That’s the god of the Moabites. Imagine that; he’s wiping out the city of the Israelites and he’s killing the people, offering them as a sacrifice to Kamosh. That sounds like some things that are going on today in northern Iraq and in Syria, and what the Boko Haram are doing in northern Nigeria - they’re offering up people as sacrifices to their gods. They’re modern day Moabites. He says, “I took captive from there the Ariel of David and dragged it before Kamosh in Kriyot.” Kriyot is one of the cities of the Moabites. What on earth is the Ariel of David, the Ariel of David, that is being dragged before the idol of Kamosh in this Moabite city? Is that the warrior, meaning the champion, who went out and maybe taunted the Moabites and was captured? Or is it actually the altar that was dragged? Some kind of movable altar that shouldn’t have been there in the first place, of a high place? Why is it called the Ariel of David? I mean, this is kind of mysterious. We don’t know. We don’t know the answer to this, but it’s interesting that the two places where we have Ariel in the Tanakh, two of the places are both in Moabite contexts. One is in this Moabite inscription and the other is defeating them, the Ariels of the Moabites. Some people have even suggested that Ariel in the sense of a warrior actually may be a Moabite word, whereas in Hebrew, Ariel referred to the altar, both of them literally meaning “lion of God”. Interesting stuff. Yes. Keith: That is very interesting. Wow. Okay. Anything on the cubit, is that the Word of the Week? Nehemia: No, so the Word of the Week is Ariel. Could that be the Word of the Week? Keith: And that’s what I was going to… Nehemia: Beseder, okay, Ariel is the Word of the Week, and my sister, by the way, her name is Ariela, which is the feminine of Ariel. Ariel is understood to refer to both Jerusalem and the altar, yours translates it as “hearth”, that’s actually based on Arabic. There is no evidence of that. Ariel refers to the altar itself, and the city in which the altar stood. Ariel is Aleph-Resh-Yud-Aleph-Lamed. That’s simply two words: Ari, Aleph-Resh-Yud, which is lion, and El which is God or mighty one, Aleph-Lamed. So the mighty one of the Lion of God, the lion of the mighty one is Ariel. Keith: Impressive - five letters, two words, and we’ve got Ariel. I like it. Nehemia: There, we got it. Of course, isn’t that the character in that mermaid movie? Isn't her name Ariel? Keith: Nehemia, you watch those kinds of things. You know I don’t watch those kinds of things. Nehemia: No, it’s Disney! You can’t watch Disney? I know you watch Disney. I always thought that was funny when I heard that, this character named Ariel, and she’s… The Little Mermaid, it’s called. It’s a she because Ariel is a masculine word in Hebrew. Ariela is the feminine. Of course, we have Ariel Sharon, the former prime minister. Are you with us? What’s going on? Keith: Yes, I’m here. I’m here. Nehemia: Okay. So let’s skip ahead to verse 19. Can you read this verse 19? Wait, actually, let’s stop there. I have to talk about verse 18. Can you please read verse 18? Keith: Yes. So when I say I’m here and I’m doing something, that means that you have to keep reading because I’m trying to keep us recorded. I’m back to 18, “Then he said to me, ‘Son of man, this is what the sovereign Lord says. There will be the regulations for sacrificing burnt offerings and sprinkling blood upon the altar when it is built.’” Nehemia: Okay. So we have to stop for a moment and just raise some questions here, and I hope you’re with us because you’re going to need to field this. One of the things I’ve heard from Christians is that Jesus came, and he was the final sacrifice, and after that the sacrificial system has been abolished. All you have to do is read in the book of Acts and you’ll find out that Paul was actually involved in a sacrifice in Jerusalem and the Temple after the crucifixion. So that doesn’t even really fit with the New Testament. But how, in your Methodist church, did they explain this passage? That there are going to be sacrifices, burnt offerings, and there’s going to be blood, and remember blood is for the atonement. So they’re sprinkling blood on the altar in the time of Ezekiel’s temple. So how did you guys deal with this in the Methodist Church, or did you just ignore it? Keith: No, we didn’t deal with this sort of thing, Nehemia. Nehemia: So it’s really interesting. I’ve read about this in classical Christian commentaries, meaning Augustine and people like that, what Christians call Saint Augustine. Their explanation is that, well, this is not to be taken literally. There will never be an altar. In fact, when Ezekiel saw this vision, he saw an altar, but what the altar represents is… and then it comes up with some explanation, the Catholic Church or the cathedral, and then the sprinkling of the blood, that represents the Eucharist, and the church, the drinking of the wine and eating of the wafer. So they say, “This whole section in Ezekiel, really chapters 40 through 48 of Ezekiel, according to Catholic and Greek Orthodox traditional Christian commentators in the Christian world, these are all symbols, symbols of things that will take place, as they say, in the life of the church. It actually isn’t meant to be taken literally. In this respect, Jews take the Bible literally. We absolutely do. There are obviously metaphors and symbols, but in this case, when Ezekiel describes a temple being built and he says it’s so many cubits this way and so many cubits that way, we literally understand that there will be a temple like this that will be built under the reign of the King Messiah, or in that period some… somehow, and that will be the final temple during the reign of the King Messiah on Earth. So in that respect, you could say Jews are literalists. Even though obviously the symbols and metaphors that, when he’s talking about cubits and things like this, yes, this is actually a temple that will be built. Keith: In order words, sort of to back up, there’s no need to over-spiritualize the matter that what Ezekiel is seeing is the temple that will be built, that will physically be there. And that temple won’t be a temple that doesn’t have, but rather that does have the very things that were in the original temple, meaning the idea that having an altar, having a place to sacrifice, and those sort of… Nehemia: Well verse 19 speaks of Chatat, the sin offering. You know what I mean? There will be sin offerings even in this future temple. And look, you said it. We don’t need to spiritualize it or over-spiritualize it. I’m not telling Catholics they shouldn’t spiritualize it. I think Catholics do need to spiritualize it because they say sacrifices have been done away with. So they’d come to a verse like verse 19, where it speaks about sin offerings, and they have no choice but to spiritualize it because it contradicts their theology. As a literalist in the respect of, I take the Bible at face value, I say a sin offering really is a sin offering. I don’t need to spiritualize it, they do. That’s my point. Keith: I will weigh in here. The reason that there really doesn’t need to be too much of an argument regarding this is that maybe what you don’t realize Nehemia, as you say, the Jews take the Bible literally and the temple that’s going to be built, and Ezekiel... I think you’re confused. I really have to challenge you on something. I think you’re confused. You think that the Catholic Church, and even the Methodist Church, and many of the churches that are presently promoting what they’re promoting are actually looking at Ezekiel and saying that the verse in Ezekiel… Nehemia: So I’ve looked at the Catholic …. commentaries ... Keith: Let me finish. Let me finish. What I’m saying is that it’s almost easy, it’s almost an easy target, because what you find in the Catholic Church, what you find continuously more and more and more in the Protestant denominations, is they’re not opening the Bible. They’re more like the rabbi at that reform synagogue, if anything, who says, “Moses, what are you talking about? Altar? What do you mean? This is just a picture. These are nice things that you use every once in a while.” What we’re doing right now that I think is so powerful is we're opening up the Scripture, we’re saying we find common ground in the Scriptures, the Holy Bible, the word of God, and we think it’s good for yesterday, today, tomorrow. I wish that that was the conversation in the Methodist church. I wish it was. Now how do we deal with verse 19? Verse 19 - we're not even reading verse 19! It’s not even in the conversation. So my point is that what we're trying to do is so different, and especially for you, it’s so different because… I know this is where hopefully this thing will cut off, what I’m continuously frustrated about is that we’re not using the Scripture as Scripture. We’re not opening it and asking what does it mean yesterday, today and tomorrow? It’s not even in the conversation. There are books of discipline, there are the rules and regulations of the Pope, there are the saint statements, there’s all this other stuff that’s going on. What I’m trying to do, to be honest with you, is let’s have the conversation about Scripture. When a rabbi says, “We don’t know if Moses exists,” or when a preacher says, or a bishop says, or a pope says, or a president says, “But you really want to open the Bible? You want to apply the Bible? The Bible’s an old dusty book! It’s not good for us.” I disagree. It is good. And for those that believe it we have to answer the question that you brought up - do we look at Ezekiel and say this is practical? It’s legitimate? It’s real? Or do we over-spiritualize and say, “Well, that’s not something we’re going to deal with. What you did do, and again you’re the one that’s done this throughout Prophet Pearls, I don’t know why you do it, you continually bring up something from the New Testament and it will be a question and you’re doing that, and I appreciate why you’re doing it, because you’re asking the question, “Was this something that was meant?” In other words, sacrifices continuing, Paul going to the temple. He didn’t go to the Temple and say, “Well, it’s good there are no sacrifices.” He did vows. He went to the Temple during Shavuot, and he went to the Temple and it said he had to be in Jerusalem for that time because it was continuing. So I get excited about it. Nehemia: And it will continue in the time of Ezekiel. The reason I do that is you’re not being a good Methodist, and I want to respectfully consider this from the different perspectives. That’s why I say, I’m not saying the Catholic is wrong from his perspective; the Catholic needs to say this and he has an internally consistent system of theology. It’s just not my system. My system is... Keith: And what I’m saying is the Catholic is wrong. Here’s the problem that I’m having - and we’re going to get into this when we’re face-to-face, we’ll be able to fight about it more. But here’s where I do say the Catholic has a problem. Because either this is the word of God… just yesterday… Nehemia: Well, he’s got a problem. The question is, how does he solve it? He solves it by spiritualizing it. I solve it by saying it hasn’t happened yet. Keith: Exactly. Yeah. And I solve it by saying, “Let’s look and find out what it meant. Let’s ask what it meant, what it means and what it will mean.” I think we just did that. We just did Prophet Pearls, the very tagline, what was it, what is it and what will it be? Guess what? There’s going to be a Temple. And that’s why we and my friends, I don’t mind saying the name of my friend, Yehuda Glick, and many other people desperately - they don’t only believe it’s going to happen, they think they can be a part of that temple coming forward. Now, how that happens politically and those issues, I’m not going to get into that. But the people that believe that when we talk about Meshiach, when the Messiah’s coming, and reigning in the earth and people drawing unto the Holy Hill of God and coming to Jerusalem and offering themselves... I mean, that to me is a powerful, powerful picture. And you know what? May it be in our time, maybe in our generation... Nehemia: Amen. But you just brought up the elephant in the room, and the elephant in the room is that your friend Yehuda Glick was shot for saying that Jews should have the right to pray on the Temple Mount. He knows what every Jew knows - that one day that temple will be rebuilt and until it’s rebuilt, we don’t want to forget about it. We want to continue to visit there and pray there. The very reason why the Catholic Church and the Presbyterian Church, which is involved in the BDS, the anti-Semitic program they have of demonizing Israel - how can an entire denomination do that? Because in their view, Ezekiel 43 verse 19 is just a picture for the life of the church. It has nothing to do with Israel, nothing to do with the Jews, nothing to do with Jerusalem. These are just pictures in the life of the church, and when you read about Ariel, we’re just going to translate it as… I mean think about that. Why do they translate Ariel as an altar? Because they don’t want people to know that here Ezekiel in the future is speaking about how this is going to be in Jerusalem. Because you go back to Isaiah 29 and Ariel is Jerusalem. So this isn’t just some altar at the front of the church that’s going to be a certain size. This is the altar that’s going to be in Jerusalem. And that’s why this is so significant. This is why I think we need to understand what the Catholics and the Presbyterians and all those other denominations are thinking. Because I hear about this, and my Jewish brothers and sisters are saying, “Well don’t you guys say you believe in the Bible?” It’s really easy to say, “Oh well they don’t take the Bible seriously.” But it’s worse than not taking the Bible seriously. What they’ve done is they’ve spiritualized it to the point where it no longer means what it literally and originally meant. Keith: Let me say this, there are many, many, many, many people, not only that are listening, but that aren’t listening who come from the same kind of tradition that I’ve come from that really earnestly desire to understand. Now, let me give you an example, and again, we might be regressing a little bit. I hope not. I’m really glad that you brought this up with the Ariel, because there are so many people, Nehemia, that just want to know, “Teach it to me, show it to me, let me see it for myself.” They’re really prohibited from being able to have that interaction because they’re not getting a chance to interact with the original language. I mean, look - you can go to 15 different commentaries and they can tell you this is what the hearth was and the altar. But to look at t

In this episode of The Original Torah Pearls, Tetzaveh (Exodus 27:20-30:10), we begin with a discussion of how modern day synagogues and churches attempt to emulate the commandments for the decoration of the Biblical priests and the Temple.  This leads to an enlightening discussion on the interpretation of Scripture, and who has the right to decide what the scriptures say. Other topics include Josephus's statement that the name of God has four vowels and whether David sinned when he ate the Bread of the Presence. https://audio.nehemiaswall.com/Torah_Pearls/Torah-Pearls-20-Exodus-08-Tetzaveh.mp3 Download Torah Pearls Tetzaveh Transcript Torah Pearls #20 – Tetzaveh (Exodus 27:20-30:10) You are listening to The Original Torah Pearls with Nehemia Gordon, Keith Johnson, and Jono Vandor. Thank you for supporting Nehemia Gordon's Makor Hebrew Foundation. Learn more at NehemiasWall.com. Jono: It's time for Pearls from the Torah Portion with presidential candidate Keith Johnson and his Secretary of State Nehemia Gordon. G'day, gentlemen. Keith: He won't play the game. Nehemia: Now once again he acts like this is Saudi Arabia, I don't understand. Keith: Are you kidding me? Jono, he won't play the game with me so I'm going to have to find some other people but that's okay. It's good to be on the show. I've got a little time to break away from the campaign to do this. Jono: Okay, so Nehemia's not playing, you're going to have to come up with your own staff. Keith: Yeah. Well, no, I've got plenty of staff. I just can't get him. I’m not sure what's going on. Jono: Alright. Keith: I think he's raising the bar. Jono: It'll be on the front-page news tomorrow. But g'day to Wendy and Mary who have been sharing the Torah Pearls on Facebook. Also good day to Ralph in Pittsburgh, and Nick in Tennessee. Nehemia: I don't have anybody to shout-out. You’ve got to give me a second to go look over who’s sharing it. Keith: Let's say this, Jono, there are a lot of people out there we want to say… Nehemia: Oh, no, the timeline. Keith: Shout-out to all those people that are sharing it on Facebook, and it's really getting exciting. I know you mentioned to us that we're having more and more people that are listening, and so it really is fun to run into people everywhere that are sharing it and talking about it and getting emails and notes. So, a good day to everybody that is listening out there. Jono: To everybody who's listening, wherever you may be around the world, thank you for your company, because today we are in Tetzaveh. Nehemia: Tetzaveh. Jono: OK. Nehemia: And here's a shout-out to Ed W. over on Facebook. Jono: G'day, Ed. Nehemia: Keep listening to the Torah Pearls. Jono: Nice. Keith: Alright. Jono: Keep sharing. Exodus 27, verse 20 to Exodus 30, verse 10. And it begins like this, "You shall command the children of Israel that they bring you pure oil of pressed olives for the light,” we’re talking about the menorah, right? “To cause the lamp to burn continually. In the Tabernacle of Meeting, outside the veil, which is before the Testimony, Aaron and his sons shall tend it from evening until morning before Yehovah. It shall be a statute forever to their generations on behalf of the children of Israel.” Then we get into chapter 28. Is there anything you would say about that, fellows? Nehemia: Woah. Woah, you want to run past that? Jono: No. I'm saying here we are and this has got the menorah. Nehemia: I'm going to pitch Keith a softball. Keith, what is this, “to burn continually?” Is it burning 24 hours a day, seven days a week, or what's the deal with this “continually”? Keith: Well, all I know is that when we were doing our study in the “Prayer to Our Father,” we were dealing with this word, and I believe it's the word “tamid,” am I correct, Nehemia? Nehemia: “Tamid,” right. Keith: Yeah, “tamid.” So now, of course, that doesn't show up in my Methodist Bible here, but it just kind of brings it to memory. Actually, I have two things I think about when I read this short passage. One, I think about the time that we went through at the end of last calendar year, at the time of Hanukkah, and this whole discussion of the oil that was burning in the lamp, and the need for oil to be able to keep his command of keeping the light burning. The other issue has to do with this issue that Nehemia just brought up. So really, we've talked about the one but we haven't talked about the second. So even though he's handing me the softball, I mean I've got to pitch it back to him and say, Nehemia, what jumped out at you when you read this? Nehemia: Well, you know I think the word in English,continually, implies that it's all the time, whereas, in Hebrew, it really implies that it's daily, it's done continually, not as in an unbroken period of time, but day after day after day, and then it says, "forever". And you know, the first thing that jumps out at me when I see that phrase, the Hebrew “ner tamid,” which is the perpetual lamp or the continual lamp, but really, it's the daily lamp, is that growing up in an Orthodox Jewish home, we'd go to the synagogue and at the front of every synagogue, I think in the world, they have what's called a “ner tamid,” which is the perpetual lamp, the continual lamp. It's exactly patterned after this verse, and what they've done is said, well, we don't have the temple anymore, so we're going to light a lamp at the front of the synagogue in commemoration of that lamp. Actually, they specifically put it in front of the place, the cupboard in which the Torah scroll is kept, and they call the Torah scroll, the Ark of the Covenant. Excuse me, they call it the Holy Ark, “Aron HaKodesh,” and in front ofAron HaKodesh, the Holy Ark, in which the Torah scroll is kept, is the “parochet,” the veil. Same word used in the tabernacle, and later in the Temple, and in front of that is the “ner tamid,” the continual lamp. So what they've done, essentially, is patterned the synagogue after the tabernacle and later, the Temple, which I kind of have mixed feelings about. On the one hand, I think, well, that's beautiful. They're preserving in people's lives these symbols. On the other hand, the thing it reminds me of is the high places that they built in ancient Israel, that on top of every hill and under every leafy tree, it says they built these, what were called, high places. The Hebrew word for high place is “bama,” and they would bring sacrifices at these places outside of the legitimate tabernacle and later Temple. This was one of the great sins of ancient Israel that repeatedly is mentioned in the book of Kings. For example, it'll say, you know, so-and-so was king and he did right in the eyes of the Lord, or he didn't do right in the eyes of the Lord, and then it’ll say, only he continued to offer sacrifices at the high places. You know, that's, like, the exception… Jono: Sure. Nehemia: …that all of the kings, except for two, continued to follow that sin. This includes David and it includes Solomon. They sinned with the sin of the high place. The only two kings to attempt to stamp them out were King Hezekiah and King Josiah. And so this is one of the reservations that I have with the synagogue that, you know, synagogue is great, I mean the word means gather, in Hebrew it's called “beit knesset,” house of gathering. But when you turn it into a “Mikdash me’at,” that's the term that's used sometimes, a little Temple, then you've got a problem because you've turned it into a high place. So I have a little bit of hesitation about these symbols in the synagogue, which then turn it, essentially, or potentially could, into a temple. And here's a really interesting little tidbit, and I'll end with this, is that the platform on which they read the Torah scroll is called the “Bima,” which is from the same root, essentially another form of the word “Bama,” a high place. Jono: True. Keith: You know, Jono, the other thing about this that Nehemia is bringing up, and I think we'll be able to talk about this as we go through this portion, it's sort of the idea - and I actually had a conversation yesterday with my wife - we were talking about that yesterday, was the new moon, and this sounds like I'm diverting from the portion, but yesterday was the new moon in Israel. Am I right, Nehemia? Nehemia: And remember guys, this is a pre-recorded program. Keith: It’s a pre-recorded program Nehemia: When it’s actually broadcast, what Keith is saying makes no sense. So yes, yesterday there was a new moon in Israel. Keith: Okay. Jono: So, everyone is now confused. It happened to be that we’re pre-recording. Keith: So, the point was that the day before, let me just put it this way, there was a new moon, the day before that new moon, it wasn't sighted in Israel, but it was sighted here in the United States. It was as beautiful as you could see, beautiful and clear. And we're talking about the issue about what happens in Israel and what happens in other people's parts of their life. Now, for me, the reason there's a connection with what Nehemia just said and that, is that what sometimes happens inmy tradition is, we take what portions we want from the Tanakh, or what portions we want from ancient Israel, or what portions we want from the temple, and then attempt to recreate them in the church. So, for example, if you go into the church, there'll be the altar, and the altar actually is the place that you come in…and there's also a place where the preacher will preach, and they will sometimes use some of the same terms. Jono: Sure. Keith: I guess what's interesting about this is, what part of that is good and what part of that causes there to be a problem. So, what you're talking about the high place, Nehemia, is the part where I get a little nervous. I think, well, wait, so when there's no temple and there's no ability for them to be there, and they're dispersed around the world, they're attempting to take the part of the command, or a part of the Tanakh and the idea of approaching God, and putting it in a place where they can do that. So it seems like it's a tension. I mean you know what I mean? It's like I realize… Nehemia: Well, I have nothing inherently against the place of gathering, where people want to come together and pray together and study Scripture. Those are wonderful things. My concern is when it, and I'm not saying it always does, but sometimes it crosses the line, I think. Jono: From being an object into something that's… Nehemia: Where, actually, it's essentially a replacement for the Temple… Jono: Sure. Nehemia: …for some people, and in some contexts. Another thing that jumps out at me when I read the phrase “ner tamid,” eternal lamp or perpetual lamp, continual lamp, is the verse in Proverbs, chapter 6, verse 23. It says, “For the commandment is aner,” a lamp, “the teaching is a light, and what the teaching,” I mean that's my JPS translation, “the teaching of the light and the way to life is the rebuke of this discipline.” Let's see what we have in the King James Version. “For the commandment is a lamp,” isner, “and the law of the Torah is light; and reproofs of instruction are the way of life.” What it's essentially saying is that the commandment is a light, it's something that sheds light on you, and it teaches you how to live. And the Torah, which are the instructions, a more correct translation is light. So, we have this, and that's also a play on words; I think Keith can tell you about that, as well. Torah, “Or,” light. Keith can tell a whole sermon about it. Jono: Yeah, no, that's right. So, it's… Nehemia: So, the word “light,” and “Torah,” sound very similar in Hebrew. Jono: So, while we’re talking about it, it did actually remind me of Psalm 119, verse 140, if I remember correctly. “Your word is very pure, therefore, your servant loves it,” is what I've got there. And also, when I went over just to have a look at that, you also have in Psalm 119, verse 105, “Your word is a lamp to my feet and a light to my path.” So yeah… Nehemia: Amen. Jono: …verse 20 just reminded me of those. Nehemia: Wait, can you sing that for us with the Amy Grant tune? Jono: Oh, please. Nehemia: “Thy,” that might be…I don’t know. “Thy word is a lamp unto my feet.” Keith: It's a beautiful song. Jono: Alright. Chapter 28, this is where Aaron gets decked out, right? This is everything that he and his sons… Nehemia: No, this is all about the bling, it's all about the bling. Jono: It's the bling; it's the bling. Keith: Yes. Jono: “Now take Aaron your brother, and his sons with him, from among the children of Israel, that he may minister to Me as priest, Aaron and Aaron’s sons, Nadab, Abihu, Eleazar, and Ithamar.” Is that correct? Nehemia: It’s actually Ele-azar. Keith: Yes. Nehemia: Those are two separate names in Hebrew, Eliezer, and Eleazar. Jono: Ah. Nehemia: This is Eleazar. Jono: Eleazar. “And you shall make holy garments for Aaron your brother, for glory and for beauty.” Is that what you've got? Nehemia: I have “kavod” and “tifaret,” And those are, really, I suppose, two different words for glory. Jono: Okay. Nehemia: Glory and splendor, you could translate it. Jono: Glory and splendor. “So you shall speak to all who are gifted artisans, whom,” now, Keith, “whom I have filled with the spirit of wisdom.” Nehemia: Whoo! Keith: What's interesting here is it says, "make sacred garments for your brothers Aaron to give him…” and in my version, it says, “…to give him dignity and honor.” Jono: Oh, wow. Keith: What I think is interesting about this is there's this, and this is always what I've experienced is, the preachers will read this and say, okay, so I'm the priest and so that's why I've got to have this certain level of, you know, and I'm obviously not going to wear exactly what Aaron and his sons wore, but I'm going to try to wear something that also gives, in my version it says, “to give me dignity and honor.” So, there's this kind of pulling away from the text and saying, okay, so where do I apply this? Where do I apply this? Where to apply this? And this comes to a technical term since the idea that we're going to kind of replace the works of the Temple, replace the people of God, replace all of those ideas and pick out and choose out different aspects and attempt to imitate those things. And this just happens to be one of them. Jono: It’s just curious, Keith, is the Methodist tradition a tradition that has some sort of priestly array? Keith: Look, this year they'll have the General Conference. It happens once every four years, and I think it's going to be in Orlando, Florida. Every year they have the regular conference, but at the General Conference, they have all the bishops of all the world come together. And I'm telling you, when they have the processional and the bishops get up there with their robes, and everybody puts on their robes and they put on all these things, I'm telling you, there's definitely a little competition. I think even with the Catholic Church sometimes, when you look at the kind of… Jono: Really? Keith: …yeah, the kind of vestments and things they put on. I mean, certainly, it came from some idea that if you're going to be operating in that role, you've got to have the bling, as you guys said. You've got to be dressed up and all. So anyway, I'm not too much into it. If you know me, I won't even wear a tie. Nehemia: I tried to get him to wear a tie. Keith: Nehemia argues about the dress code. He wears this tie every time we go out to speak, it doesn't matter. I'm like, Nehemia, take your tie off, he's like no. We go to Hanukkah and he wears a Hawaiian shirt, I couldn't believe it. But that's another discussion. Jono: Alright. Nehemia: Hey, can I read a verse in Isaiah? Jono: Please. Nehemia: Isaiah 52 verse 2. Jono: Yeah. Nehemia: I'm reading it because it has the same word here, the word “tifaret,” the word I translated as “glory”. Here in the King James Version, this is a Christian translation by the way. Even though I'm Jewish, I'm reading a Christian translation. It says, “Awake, awake; put on thy strength, O Zion; put on thy beautiful garments, O Jerusalem,” the word “beautiful” there is the same word here that they’re translating as “honor”, “glory”, "beauty", whatever. “Put on thy beautiful garments, O Jerusalem, the holy city, for henceforth there shall no more come into thee the uncircumcised and the unclean. Shake thyself from the dust; arise, and sit down, O Jerusalem…” Jono: Beautiful. Nehemia: “…loose thyself from the bands of thy neck, O captive daughter of Zion. For thus sayeth the LORD,” in Hebrew, Yehovah. “You have sold yourselves for nought; and ye shall be redeemed without money.” Jono: That’s awesome. Nehemia: Can I get an Amen? Jono: Amen. Keith: Wow. Jono: That's great. We're going to be referring to the prophets a number of times in this portion, I think. “And these are the garments which they shall make: a breastplate, anephod, a robe, a skillfully woven tunic, a turban, and a sash. So, they shall make holy garments for Aaron your brother and his sons, that he may minister to Me as priest.” And then it goes on to describe theephod. Nehemia, what exactly is anephod? Nehemia: Anephod is usually translated as an apron, but it basically was some kind of an outer garment that they wore… Jono: Okay. Nehemia: …that is frankly mysterious. There's this interesting scene in, let's see, it's in Samuel. I think it's got to be 2 Samuel, I would think, and it talks there about how David is taking thisephod and he's…it's a weird thing. Jono: He’s dancing. Nehemia: He is doing stuff with it. The whole thing is, we're kind of missing something. Here it's, “David danced before Yehovah with all his might,” Jono: “With all his might,” yeah. Nehemia: “And David was girded with a linenephod.” What’s a linenephod, and what's he, you know, what? Jono: Is that all he was doing? Nehemia: It’s strange. 1 Samuel 30, verse 7. It says, “And David said to Abiathar the priest, Ahimelech's son, ‘I pray thee, bring me hither theephod’. And Abiathar brought thither theephod to David.” So, what is he doing here with thisephod? And then it goes on and says, “And David inquired of the LORD, saying, Shall I pursue after this troop? Shall I overtake them? And he answered him, Pursue; for thou shalt surely overtake them, and without fail recover all.” It sounds like David is using thisephod as some kind of device to help him in his prayer to communicate with God, which is kind of mysterious but there you have it. Jono: It's kind of mysterious, isn't it? Nehemia:Yeah. Keith: Wow. Jono: Interesting. And the other thing that I found interesting about theephod is in verse 9, “Then you shall take two onyx stones and engrave on them the names of the sons of Israel: six of their names on one and six names on the other, in order of their birth. With the work of an engraver in stone, like the engravings of a signet, you shall engrave the two stones with the names of the sons of Israel.” And he wears them on the shoulders. And there it says in verse 12, is they're “memorial stones for the sons of Israel.” Keith, how do you understand that? Keith: Well, the only thing I keep thinking about when I read this, and I'm so glad that, in the last portion, there was a discussion about the pattern, and the pattern and Moses actually getting a chance to see what it is that was going to be built within the tabernacle. And I've seen different renditions of this and actually, I'm kind of looking forward to getting a chance to try to look at this a little more. Some people do a lot of study in the very specifics of what happened in the Temple, and what happe