Created with Sketch.
3-Minute Marketing with Chris Mechanic
6 minutes | Oct 13, 2021
3MM#24: How Marketers Can Use Intent Data To Drive More Pipeline with Auseh Britt of Terminus
Welcome back to 3-Minute Marketing, where we talk with & explore the minds of some of the world’s leading growth marketers & condense their knowledge into snackable micro-segments. Today, I catch up with Auseh Britt, who’s currently VP of Growth Marketing at Terminus. Prior to Terminus, Auseh’s had a successful career leading growth initiatives at brands like Bloomberg Industry Group, Business.com & Logi Analytics. My question for Auseh is, “What should marketers do tactically with intent data to successfully drive pipeline? What are the keys you’re seeing success with at Terminus?” This video is the exclusive, “extended cut” video. Show Notes: Intent data is useful to find right-fit accounts that are in an active buying cycle. You can also glean where those accounts are in the buying cycle so you can tailor your messaging to them. Terminus uses both first-party & third-party data signals to glean insights about account intent. First-party data = data that your company owns. Examples are website visits & campaign responses (e.g. attended your webinar on a specific topic) Third-party data = data found across the web, aggregated by other providers. Terminus uses Bombora to find what keywords & topics their accounts are searching. They also use G2 data to find what categories & competitors their key accounts are researching. Terminus segments its account-based marketing (ABM) into prioritized tiers. For their smaller “strategic segment” of their top-tier global & multinational accounts, they one-to-one bespoke campaigns. For the larger SMB segment, Terminus runs more of a “one-to-many” approach. If your ABM list is in the 1,000s, you’re probably doing it wrong. Focus your ABM on the best fit accounts in your target addressable market. Three full time people at Terminus are focused on account-based marketing. One supports the one-to-one “big bet” strategic accounts, the second does more the programmatic “one-to-many” SMB marketing. The third ABM marketer on Auseh’s team supports customer retention & expansion marketing. This is a huge gap that many companies miss when building their ABM / go-to-market strategy! The strategic account marketer works closely with the AEs to provide feedback & guidance on how they’re messaging to & marketing to their 20 key accounts. For the SMB segment, marketing will provide “air cover” & write an outreach sequence that Terminus’s sales teams can utilize, along with the basic building blocks of the positioning & content offer. Terminus uses HighSpot to house sales enablement assets like decks that BDRs can access. ABM metrics you should evaluate include account engagement (e.g. companies visited the website in the last 30 days), opportunities generated, Closed Won pipeline & deal velocity/win rate of open opps. For pipeline acceleration, Terminus hooks up to CRM to automatically switch up ad tactics based on the company’s opportunity stage. For net new logos, Terminus shoots for 60% engagement rates & a 10% opportunity creation rate. Another good target account list to add to the mix is a “win back” list of Closed Lost deals. Terminus uses multi-touch attribution to weigh the different touchpoints in the lead-to-sale journey. Transcript: – [Chris Mechanic] Hello, everybody. Welcome to another episode of Three Minute Marketing. I’m your man, Chris Mechanic. Three Minute Marketing is all about talking with and exploring the minds of some of the world’s leading growth marketers, and then condensing that into small, micro, snackable, little segments. We’re really excited today to have Miss Auseh Britt on the show with us. Auseh, I’ve known actually for a long time in real life, but she’s now VP marketing at Terminus, who we all are very familiar with, I’m sure. Prior to this, she has a long and celebrated career in B2B SaaS, as well as Bloomberg Industry Group and Business.com. So I’ll say welcome to the show. We’re super excited to have you. – [Auseh Britt] Thanks Chris. Happy to be here. – [Chris Mechanic] Yeah and I’m particularly excited about – today’s episode because you were just like, “Oh yeah, sure. I’ll just talk about how we’re, how we’re doing at Terminus.” Which I think is, you know, an excellent approach. I’m very curious to hear that. And I do have a question for you if you’re ready. – [Auseh Britt] Yeah, go ahead. Shoot. – [Chris Mechanic] So the question I’ve got for you today – is, you know, – intent data is all the rage, among B2B marketers of course. And so, I wanted to talk a little kind of tactically. So like, what should marketers do tactically, to best use intent data and to, to successfully drive pipeline, and you know, what are some of the keys to success that you’re seeing at Terminus? – [Auseh Britt] Yeah, so intent data, I think is critical to any kind of successful marketing program and campaign. And it’s used a lot in account-based marketing campaigns. Because you can find accounts that are great fits, but you also need to know, are they showing intent? Are they in the buying cycle right now? And if so, where are they in the buying cycle? Because then you can tailor your messaging and your offers and your content to kind of fit where they are. So at Terminus, we, for our own internal marketing programs, we use both first party data and third party intent data to kind of make sure that we know, you know, who we’re targeting and what we’re saying to them to drive those conversions. So in terms of first party data, we use information like website visits also, how are they interacting with our campaign? And in terms of campaign responses, if they go to a webinar or a virtual event or something like that on a specific topic. So, we can kind of take that information to know these are people who are actually engaging with our brand and our content. So that’s the first party signals. And then the third party signals are, is the data that’s, you know, across the web. And we use third party platforms and partners like Bombora, where you can pick specific keywords and topics that you want to track that are closely aligned to your product. So we use Bombora for that third-party intent signals. And then we also use a lot of G2 data and, you know, there’s other companies like TrustRadius who also have those in signals that we can find out what categories people are interested in, what competitors they may be looking at. And we marry all that information together to make sure that we’re hitting people up at the right time, like I said, with the right messaging and the right content. – [Chris Mechanic] That’s absolutely brilliant. I have a random question for you. We’ve got one minute left, but in terms of ABM campaigns, like, what’s a good number of target accounts in your position? Like are you targeting thousands of accounts? Hundreds or dozens? Do you have different segments set up for like different types of prospects? It sounds really complicated. – [Auseh Britt] We do. We have different types of segments and different types of numbers. And it also depends on the types of companies you’re going after. So for like our strategic segment, we run more bespoke one-to-one type of campaigns for those, because these are large global multinational companies that are going to have multiple business units. They’re going to have large buying committees. So it may only be a handful of accounts, but you need to go broad in them and deep. So they, you know, take a lot more resources. And then if you’re looking more on your SMB mid-market size, then we can carry even, you know, we’ll target even more accounts. But it’s definitely not getting up to the thousands, I think that kind of goes against a little bit about the ABM side. – [Chris Mechanic] I love it. I love it. I have a lot more questions. Guys, Auseh, and I are going to continue talking intent data and ABM. There should be a link to a separate video in the show notes or somewhere around here. But I love that. I love the idea, know who’s in market, get your first party data game in order and then hydrate. I’ve heard that hydrate those records with that third party data. – [Auseh Britt] Interesting, yeah. – [Chris Mechanic] So I’d like to get into more detail with you if you have the time, I’d appreciate it. If you guys like this, if you enjoyed it, please give us a thumbs up or a, like, I’ll say we appreciate your time. Look forward to talking with you more right now. Tell the audience how they can learn more about you or Terminus. – [Auseh Britt] Yeah, sure. You can find me on LinkedIn. Auseh Britt and, and check out Terminus, terminus.com. We are a multi-channel engagement platform for ABM. – [Chris Mechanic] Well, that was interesting. And it does sound complex on the topic of ABM, but so you have these basically strategic accounts or tier one accounts that you do pretty much manually with a human. And then how many other layers do you have? – [Auseh Britt] Yeah, – [Chris Mechanic] Is it just one other layer? – [Auseh Britt] So we have, so the way my team is kind of split up, I actually have three full-time people that do account-based marketing. We have the one person Tyler, who’s focused on strategic accounts and those account executives have like, five big bet accounts each that they’re focused on for like the second half of the year. So he works with them on really going after those like big bets and doing more one-to-one, one to few type of like marketing programs and campaigns. And then I have someone else who is focused on new logo acquisition, but more for our entity, like our SMB and like growth segments. And so that is a little bit more programmatic and, you know, like a one to many type of ABM campaigns. And then the third person just focuses on customer expansion. So I think that’s, – [Chris Mechanic] I see. – [Auseh Britt] That’s an area that some companies, I think don’t take full advantage of, that kind of, you need to have products to upsell and cross-sell. Of course, it depends on like what your offering is. But a lot of companies, I think, focus so much on new business, that there’s usually a really big opportunity for customer expansion. And so we brought somebody on just to do ABM to kind of figure out what’s that white space? What else could we be cross selling to them? And working closely with account managers to put together ABM campaigns focused on expansion. – [Chris Mechanic] I couldn’t agree with that more. I think, I think far too few people put enough effort into like, marketing toward their own customers. And I actually heard that, it was given to me as advice from, you know, a long time marketing exec. CMO type, and he’s like, “Look, I’ve worked with a lot of agencies before and they do a poor job of keeping you up to date in terms of what their latest and greatest stuff is.” You know, like most agencies change and innovate and do new stuff over time. But you know, if a tree falls in the forest and you’re not telling anybody about it, then, – [Auseh Britt] Yeah, and they may be going out and getting those services elsewhere without knowing that you’re offering it and what a shame that would be right? So it’s like, you already have the relationship. Yeah. You have to be, I think, constantly marketing to your customers. – [Chris Mechanic] And there’s other, like inherent values of just having those conversations. Like you could get referrals, you could get five star reviews, you could get ideas for, you know, other things that they would buy or that they are, that they are in market for. You can talk to them about other vendors that they’re using and maybe have some partnership element to it. But either way, I am curious, back to the ABM topic. So what I heard basically was you have, you know, some individuals that are just focused, spend their whole day on these five strategic accounts, and then you have other individuals with larger lists. Do you tend to, like, script and provide all the content and all the messaging for the individual reps that they just kind of pick and choose from their library of stuff? Or are they coming up with angles and coming up with copy themselves on the fly? – [Auseh Britt] Yeah. So for the strategic ABM, it’s actually, it’s more than five accounts cause that’s per AE. So Tyler’s probably working on more like 20 accounts at any given time. And he is just very close to kind of understanding like their progress, he meets with those AEs weekly. So he does give them, angles and stuff to do. But because our product is pretty robust that you can’t be as I think, as scripted because the AE should also be doing their job. And they’re going after someone like, like Sony, which is one of, someone we’re working with right now. Like they have to really understand what the needs are and what they’re looking for. And so the AEs that are working those larger accounts need to be able to kind of, position the product to their paying points. – [Chris Mechanic] Yup, so they’re mostly custom writing their own messages. – [Auseh Britt] For the most part, yeah. And he’ll help, he’ll definitely will help and he’ll review. And he also tells them, don’t make it, don’t send the same email to 10 people, you know? Like do take the time to make it more relevant to them. Then when you get down to like the smaller companies and more on the programmatic side, then those, it just gets harder. Like you can’t write, you know, individual emails for all those people. – [Chris Mechanic] Right. – [Auseh Britt] So we do more air cover, programmatic stuff for them. We write outreach sequences and things like that that they can modify. But at least we have, you know, the basic building blocks of the positioning and the value prop and then the content offer. And then they can, kind of massage it as they need it. – [Chris Mechanic] That’s smart. And this is a very micro and detailed question, but, where do they go to pull that stuff? Like, does that all live in a HubSpot playbook or in a market like, or do they use Google drive? Like if I’m that, that AE or that BDR, like, who am I, where am I going to get this content and assembled email? – [Auseh Britt] Yeah, we have a tool called HighSpot. Have you ever heard of Highspot? It’s kind of like an enablement. Our, we have a whole enablement team that does sales enablement. So they kind of manage our HubSpot tool, but, marketing will create a lot of, you know, our first call deck or our day in the life decks and all these kinds of things, our competitive analysis and stuff. And we, but everything is housed in Highspot. So that’s the tool that they, that we try to push everyone towards, like to go look for things that will have the latest information. And then we just also just use outreach for any kind of like, more, for followups. Like if it’s kind of a customer, I mean, a sales nurture stream that we create for them to use for very specific campaigns though, like they’re going after someone for a specific reason. – [Chris Mechanic] And Highspot is just H I G H S P O t.com? – [Auseh Britt] Yup. – [Chris Mechanic] Cool. Nice. Well, that’s really interesting and useful. I’m curious. So you’re kind of here, overseeing this like massive amount of activity. What do you, what metrics do you look at for the most part in ABM? – [Auseh Britt] For ABM? So we have different types of campaigns. So we have new logo acquisition, we have pipeline acceleration and we have customer expansion. So for new logo acquisition, I mean, at the end, we’re trying to drive revenue. So like for all of the, it’s about driving, you know, pipeline and close one revenue. But for like, we also look at other metrics, like, account engagement. So that’s really big, especially for new logo acquisition. These are new customers that we’ve identified that we’re going after and we need to engage them first. So we set metrics of, you know, have they visited the website in the last 30 days? Are we driving them there? Have they responded to any of our campaigns, like a webinar or an event or content asset download? We’re trying to drive account engagement, – [Chris Mechanic] So you look at that at the company level basically, – [Auseh Britt] At the company not the contact level. Right. – [Chris Mechanic] Okay. – [Auseh Britt] And then opportunities, opportunities generated, pipeline, closed one revenue. And then for pipeline acceleration, those are already open opportunities. So for those, we’re looking at deal velocity and like win rate. So we want to make sure we’re impacting that. – [Chris Mechanic] And those are prospects that are enrolled in a sequence or in a campaign during the sales process to help close the deal faster? – [Auseh Britt] Yeah. So those are open opportunities that we try to do different. We’re trying to engage, keep them engaged and give them more like case studies and testimonials and, and continue to prove our value because we already know there’s an opportunity there, that the AEs working, we just want, we need to convince them why we’re the best one and why they need to kind of have that urgency to buy us now. So. – [Chris Mechanic] So it sort of swings alongside the AE throughout the sales process? – [Auseh Britt] It does. It does. – [Chris Mechanic] Interesting. That’s new. I’ve never heard of that. I’ve heard of, certainly new logo and customer expansion, but the idea of acceleration campaigns is interesting. Is there any criteria for when they are enrolled into that or is it just like as soon as a deal is created, they’re automatically enrolled and then unenrolled when closed, when they close? – [Auseh Britt] Yeah, so for pipeline acceleration campaigns, the nice thing is with our Terminus platform, because it’s hooked into your CRM, which ours is Salesforce, that we move, we set up ad tactics, which are targeted display ads, that are based on the different opportunity stages that account is in. So, it gets started when it’s in our first stage, which is a suspect stage. And then, it goes to discovery and then evaluation. And then, I think proposal and planning and the negotiation. But because it’s hooked up to our CRM, as that account moves in Salesforce, it automatically moves from ad tactic to ad tactic in Terminus. So, – [Chris Mechanic] That’s brilliant. – [Auseh Britt] then we change the ads they’re seeing based on where they are in the sales cycle. – [Chris Mechanic] Brilliant. So ad tactics as a term is Terminus lingo. I love that. Now, out of curiosity, cause what I’m currently obsessed with with is algorithm training. Basically like helping LinkedIn or helping, you know, Google better identify prospects. And one way to do that is by firing back down funnel signals. So, you know, anytime a client has Salesforce, I’m excited because you can, it links in easily with Google or Facebook or LinkedIn. So when, when that deal gets added to pipe, you know, the ad gets attribution and it will also ping back to the platform to say, hey, find me more of those. Does Terminus, send those signals? Like is Terminus integrated with Google ads and LinkedIn ads, for instance? Which I bet you, it probably is. – [Auseh Britt] Yeah, well LinkedIn. We have a partnership with LinkedIn, so, I know, we have full access to all the LinkedIn ad types and you serve them based on your account set up in Terminus. So you all, you manage it like from one place, you add your account list of say a hundred accounts and you can run your target display stuff through Terminus, but then, you can also run everything that LinkedIn has to offer to those same accounts through it. But does it ping back and say, look for more accounts like this? No, cause we already have our set of accounts that we’re going after, versus it being per net new. – [Chris Mechanic] That makes sense. That makes sense. – [Auseh Britt] Yeah. That’s more on demand. More of, I would think of like an inbound demand gen. – [Chris Mechanic] Yup. I’m actually really interested to see what LinkedIn does, because Facebook and Google are like, well ahead of LinkedIn in terms of machine learning. And I totally hear you and you’re totally right in terms of like, it doesn’t really apply to any ABM cause you have this defined field of play. But LinkedIn is currently the, you know, the dumbest of all the algorithms, but you can see them like making moves toward that. So I’m interested to see how that starts working in terms of net new or in terms of acquisition and prospecting campaigns. Very cool. Well, this has been awesome and enlightening. I am curious, cause we have a couple more minutes here, so if you, let’s say that you have a thousand accounts that you’re targeting, what do you consider to be a good engagement rate? Like do you expect to have half of those being engaged at anytime? 75%? 25%? – [Auseh Britt] Yeah. At least 50%. If it’s net new, you know, logos, we tried to go more towards like that 60% engagement. – [Chris Mechanic] And then so of those thousand accounts, like, if you can close or if you can get into pipeline, you know or actually have some kind of deal created with like, like I guess what’s your target? Like do you aim to have 10% engaged in a deal or 20%? – [Auseh Britt] Yeah. I mean we, I mean 10% opportunity creation. – [Chris Mechanic] That’d be good? – [Auseh Britt] Yeah. – [Chris Mechanic] Sounds pretty good. – [Auseh Britt] We don’t always get fair. Yeah. And then it’s different too. I mean that’s net new, so we’ll also do close loss. So it all depends on who you’re targeting. Like who’s in your target list. So these are just, accounts that have never engaged with you that are high fit. You know, you set lower thresholds versus accounts that were say, close loss a year ago. So those close loss opportunities we already know there are some awareness, they took a look at you before, whatever reason they didn’t go with you. I would expect a higher, you know, engagement and a higher opportunity creation from it because, you’re not starting from scratch. You’re building on a relationship you’ve already had. – [Chris Mechanic] So you kind of can have goals and targets by the different campaign types. – [Auseh Britt] Yeah. And we do that every time we set a new campaign, but, but they’re generally in the same range. Like, we’re not going to all of a sudden go from 10% to 80% opportunity creation goal, you know, it’s usually like within a range, but some will be higher than others. – [Chris Mechanic] Now are there different attribution models for the different campaigns? Like for instance, with the, you know, the new logo, is it first touch only? Or last touch doesn’t count? – [Auseh Britt] No, I mean for us, we do multi touch, we’d look at everything across the board. Yeah. Because my experience with first, like first touch and last touch is, some channels just get heavily weighted, on it. So, if you do first touch, for me, rarely is like an email channel, you know, emails a lot of nurturing cause oftentimes they don’t get into your database, until they came from somewhere else. Right? You converted them through an event, you converted them through paid search, you converted something. But email still has an impact. – [Chris Mechanic] A hundred percent. – [Auseh Britt] Yeah, cause you’re, continuously having that communication. You’re inviting them to more stuff. You’re sharing your content, you know? So, it’s critical, but it’s often not the first touch. – [Chris Mechanic] Hundred percent. So you guys use like a fractional model where you, give fractional credit to each of the different touches? – [Auseh Britt] Yeah. – [Chris Mechanic] Interesting. Do you use a tool for that? Or is that all just within sales force campaigns?. – [Auseh Britt] Our tool! So within the Terminus platform. – [Chris Mechanic] Oh, there’s attribution? – [Auseh Britt] Yeah, well we bought BrightFunnel, Do you know BrightFunnel? – [Chris Mechanic] I do know BrightFunnel. Yeah. I didn’t even realize that. Man, you guys are making moves. – [Auseh Britt] That was a few years ago. So that was probably like, that was before Sixter. So we do have that. – [Chris Mechanic] Well, I’m going to have to check out Terminus again, because I, last time, last time I jumped in, I don’t think it was as cool as it sounds right now. – [Auseh Britt] It’s grown a lot. – [Chris Mechanic] You, obviously are very busy. You’ve got a lot of people and various campaigns live, probably right now. So I’m going to let you go, but I really really appreciate the time here today. I think it was an excellent episode.
6 minutes | Oct 6, 2021
3MM#23: How Marketers Can Help Sales Close More Deals with Patrick Edmonds of Proposify
Welcome back to 3-Minute Marketing, where we interview today’s marketing rockstars & help them share their best ideas for the benefit of the greater marketing community. Today, I got to chat with Patrick Edmonds, CMO at Proposify. Patrick is the kind of unicorn marketer I love — before his “rocket ship” ascent at Proposify, he came from an agency where he bought every type of media you can think of (Search, Social, Display, Programmatic… you name it.) The thing that’s unique about Patrick is he’s a CMO at a sales-driven company. And like many of the successful CMOs I’ve interviewed, he’s got some “Sales” in his DNA & is working hip-to-hip with his sales team to drive the business forward. My question for Patrick is, “How can marketers help sales close more deals?” This video is the exclusive, “extended cut” video. ?????????????????? Show Notes: Patrick is optimistic about the “divide” between marketing & sales going away, with the demand gen function as the glue that’s bringing them together. Tip #1: Provide cover fire. Make sure you’re advertising as close to the bottom of the funnel as possible, prioritizing deals that are in your sales team’s hands right now. Tip #2: Templatize branded sales documents for your sales team. Make them look awesome to their prospects by having stellar assets (pitch decks, proposals, etc.) at-hand & ready to send, ideally on their sales call. Tip #3: Jump on calls with your sales team or use a tool like Gong to listen in to your customers. Understand the language of your customers & use it in your marketing. Want to get the right language for your marketing message? Ask your sales team to write the first draft. Then your marketing team can be the editors / curators to your brand & strategic positioning. Sell your prospects on the problem & pain for 90% of your pitch, then use the remaining 10% to offer your solution as the cure. To make proposals easier/faster, create a “Master” template with everything in there & then delete what you don’t need. Use a tool like Proposify to add variables like “First Name.” Patrick describes his journey to earning his way into the C-Suite at Proposify. Chris & Patrick talk about “training the algorithms” and leveraging your first party data (e.g. building a retargeting audience off people that viewed a proposal but were Closed Lost) Metrics are just metrics, they’re not revenue. They’re tools to help you make a judgment call. Freeing thought exercise: “If you had to do if all over, what would you do differently in building your sales & marketing process?”
8 minutes | Sep 30, 2021
3MM#22: The Top 5 Mistakes B2B Marketers Are Making Today with Drew Neisser
Welcome back to the latest episode of “3-Minute Marketing”, where we talk to the greatest minds in the marketing game today & share their most actionable insights with you. Today, I’m speaking with my friend Drew Neisser, CEO at Renegade Marketing & CMO Huddles. For those who don’t know Drew, he’s a well-loved, 40+-year veteran of the B2B brand marketing world. He’s the guy who came up with the name for the Panasonic “Toughbook”, among other famous brand marketing wins. Drew’s dropping a new book titled Renegade Marketing: 12 Steps to Building Unbeatable B2B Brands on October 5th. In line with the theme of his new book, I ask him, “What are the top 5 mistakes B2B marketers are making today & what should they be doing instead?” This video is the exclusive, “extended cut” video. ????????????????? Show Notes: Mistake #1: The “peanut butter effect” — trying to do too many personas, channels, messages, etc. Instead, create a simple story (8 words or less) & tell it 18 different ways to customers, prospects & employees. Mistake #2: The targets are backwards — most marketers prioritize prospects, then customers, then employees. Reverse that, because if employees & customers don’t buy into your brand story, you’re dead in the water. If they do, they’ll be your best advocates. Mistake #3: Rebranding without changing the product or service — marketers who do this are putting a coat of paint on an old barn. Instead, first make sure the product or service lives up to the new brand promise first. Mistake #4: Spending too much on Martech — Martech is NOT marketing, it’s just tools. Automate attentively, get Martech spend under 10% of total budgets & figure out what piece of tech you can remove for each one you add. Mistake #5: Retreating during a crisis — too many CMOs focused on furloughing staff & cutting back during the pandemic. Now they’re scrambling. The winners realized that crisis is an opportunity to shine by reinvesting, leaning into their customer relationships & showing they were essential. To tell your story effectively, create a purpose-driven story statement — 8 words or less that encapsulate everything about your brand. Then make it real for your employees, customers & prospects. To measure the effectiveness of your brand, have some basic brand health measures in place. These could include a blend of customer satisfaction, employee satisfaction, acquisition & awareness. Just evaluating marketing on CAC is problematic because the brand drives metrics like speed-to-close, frequency of inclusion in RFPs, etc. 20% of your marketing budget should be in experimentation at all times. Consider using Pollfish, Propeller Insights,. SurveyMonkey panels or Wynter for B2B surveys & panels. Your purpose-driven story doesn’t really mean/do anything until you execute against it & fulfill its promise over time. And in doing so, you effectively become a new (better) company. Transcript: – [Chris Mechanic] Welcome, everybody to another episode of Three Minute Marketing, where we interview the world’s leading growth and marketing experts and condense it down into three minute value bombs for your listening and your snacking pleasure. I’m your main man, Chris Mechanic, it’s great to have you here. If you like this show, if you are loving it, please like, subscribe, leave a comment, we listen to each one. Super excited today to be talking to Drew Neisser. Drew Neisser is pretty much like the king of B2B marketing. I mean, he’s one of these guys that’s kind of hybrid, strategist, writer, promoter, he’s got a massive network of CMOs, he runs the number two, maybe even number one podcast for CMOs at this point, but very, very talented, very well networked, knows B2B cold. When Drew talks, I listen, and I’m excited to have you here today. – [Drew Neisser] Hey, Chris. Thanks for those very kind comments. I don’t know if any of them are true, but I’ll try not to let you down. – [Chris] Well, one thing, so Drew and I have known each other for some time, you know, in real life, not just podcasting life, but one thing that I just learned about you from your website, you actually were credited for the naming of the Toughbook, Panasonic’s Toughbook, which has probably done over a billion dollars in sales by now. – [Drew] Yeah, it has and I love that, and it’s just one of those rare opportunities where they bring you a heavy notebook computer and say, hey, help us come up with a name for it, and it turned out that this magnesium casing was what made it strong, and we actually named it and then they developed a product that was incredibly tough. So, it was just a wonderful moment in one’s career. – [Chris] That’s awesome, man. That’s awesome. All right, well, let’s get going, you know we only have three minutes. I want to talk B2B today. Probably a good 30 or 40% of our business is B2B so we know it well and it’s evolving quickly, just like the rest of the space, but I got a question for you, if you are ready. – [Drew] I am ready. – [Chris] Cool. So I want to know, from your perspective, what are some of the top mistakes that you’re currently seeing B2B marketers make? Say, like the top five or top three, or however many mistakes, and what they ought to be doing instead? I’m going to start the timer now. – [Drew] Okay, so the five biggest mistakes that we’re seeing that B2B marketers are making. Number one is what we call the peanut butter effect, they’re trying to do too much, too many targeted personas, too many channels, too many messages, and they think that this micro-messaging is actually going to work, but Gartner research shows it’s the opposite. You’ve got a buying committee, you send different messages to each one of those, you’re 2.2 times less likely to get the sale. And our research shows that only 40% of CMOs can describe their brand in eight words or less, so the trick to the peanut butter, fighting the peanut butter effect, simple story, tell it 18 different ways to customers, prospects, and employees. Okay, number two, the targets are backwards. Most marketers think prospects, then customers, then employees. We want to reverse that and say, employees are your number one target, customers are number two, and prospects are number three. Employees, if they don’t buy your new brand story, you’re dead in the water. But if they do, they’re the greatest ambassadors that ever existed. Same with customers, if they don’t buy the story, you’re done, why bother? But on the other hand, they become your best advocates. So, you know you got it right when your employees are really proud of the company they work for and your customers are part of a community and feel like they’re part of a community. Okay, number three, rebranding without changing the product or service. And this one really drives me crazy, a new CMO comes in, say, hey, we need a new logo and a new color and a new website and they don’t do anything, there’s no material change to the product or service. And so, all they’re really doing is putting a coat of paint on an old barn. So, if they can change the promise but if they don’t change the service behind it and educate employees on how to deliver on this new promise, then they’ve not only put old paint on an old barn but they didn’t tell the farmer and the cows who are getting covered in paint and it’s all bad stuff. Great marketing is not about fluff, it is about service and selling through service. Okay, number four, spending too much on MarTech and this one drives me crazy. And you will know this, too much tech, not enough staff, not enough marketing, there’s a confusion out there. MarTech is not marketing, it’s just tools. And Forester estimated that they’re overspending 18 billion on this stuff. In the book I talk about how to automate attentively, get that budget on MarTech under 10% of what you’re doing and most importantly, if you add a tool, think about what you can take off, just don’t keep adding tools. All right, and the fifth one, and this was a big one in March and April of 2020, which is retreating during a crisis. Many CMOs gave budget back, they furloughed staff and now they’re scrambling. Others recognized this was a crisis and a moment to shine, that takes courage. I know CMOs that contacted every one of their customers. A big thing that happened in this crisis, you could prove you were essential. If you proved that you were essential, you really stepped up. And one of the things that came out of the crisis for us was CMO Huddles, we founded it during the pandemic because it was a way of helping our customers. It’s now a business. That’s what we mean by not retreating during a crisis. All right, that’s what I got. Five tips. – [Chris] I love that. I mean, that’s so much knowledge and wisdom all into one. Just to summarize what I got, peanut butter effect, doing too much, too much segmentation, trying to personalize too much, backwards targeting. I’ve never heard that before, I like that though, employees first, then customers, then prospects. Don’t rebrand, don’t just slap a coat of paint on a rebrand without changing the engine parts out. MarTech. Everybody, you know, B2B and B2C alike are just kind of seduced by the latest and greatest in MarTech and it’s not a problem-solver by itself, it’s just a tool like anything else. And then keep spending, keep spending through a budget. We saw that the clients of ours that spent well and continued spending, gained market share, and the auctions were just cheap while everybody was pulling out. So, I love that. Let’s close, ’cause it’s three minute marketing, but stay on the line. I know that you have a book, I’m excited to read it, personally. I hope you’ll send me a copy. But if you’ll make a few copies available to our audience, I’m sure that they would love it as well, we can include that in the bonus material. And Drew and I will keep talking, so there should be a link somewhere to a longer video, but yeah, Drew, why don’t you go ahead and let people know where they can find you or how they can claim a copy of your book. – [Drew] Sure, you can find everything on renegade.com. We also have a microsite for the book, renegademarketing.com. And if you’re a B2B CMO and you can care, share, and dare with the best of them, feel free to check out CMOhuddles.com as well. – [Chris] Love it, love it. Okay, thank you very much, everybody. If you liked this, please like, subscribe, comment. We read every comment, we love your comments, let us know what you liked, what you don’t like, what you’d like to hear more of, what topics you’re interested in, and we’ll talk to you next time. I love it. I think that, I mean, just going through some of your topics, like I love the peanut butter effect. I think half of the time, personalization attempts just go wrong, you know? The targeting is not perfect, the data set’s not perfect, you’re trying to personalize. And so, most times when we engage with a new client, we look at their whole project and task queue and we’re just like, let’s just stop doing 80% of this stuff and just zoom into that 20% that works. But, I’m interested in your concept of like, tell the story briefly in 18 different ways. So like, how would you do that in real life? How would you operationalize that? Like, you send a different version of the story to the financial buyer versus the technical buyer, or the user buyer? – [Drew] So, the first part of this comes down to really understanding your brand and being able to create what we call this purpose-driven story statement. Eight words or less, it encapsulates everything about your brand and allows you to tell the story. And so, that step, you know, once you have your purpose-driven story statement then you can come up with six ways to make it real to employees, six ways to make it real to customers and six ways to make it real for prospects. So, one of our clients we’ve worked with for several years, their purpose-driven story statement is on the case. The company is called Case Paper, they have a punny personality so this is even a pun bit built into it, but they created all these programs for their employees, set on the case awards and recognition programs that were about that. For customers, they did the same thing, they created on the case awards and they made it about- They transferred that idea to their customers and said, you’re on the case for your customers. And then for prospects, they were able to also say why this was good. And there’s a component here that you don’t see, which is brand personality and, you know, one of the ways to tie things together is with arc types. It happens that on the case had a history of comedy and funny storytelling, so we chose the joker arc type for them and that became a unifier. So, everything they do has this sort of dad humor thing to it, and it works for their brand. And most brands don’t have the chutzpah to sort of be funny and take that chance, and so these guys have just found, in an incredibly difficult marketplace, have found a way, as a paper merchant, to cut through. – [Chris] That’s awesome. Yeah, and I think that’s one of the biggest weaknesses in B2B is that people are, for some reason everyone wants to be boring in B2B, like everyone wants to be real buttoned up and real, just prim and proper, and I think a little bit of humor, a little bit of personality can really go a long way. ‘Cause I mean, whether you’re a procurement person or a CFO or whatever, you’re still a person, you still like to have fun, probably. – [Drew] It’s so true. In the book I talk about sort of branding and logos, and Dave DC was working for this company called Trust Arc and they put in their new logo, plus he changed some other things ’cause the company was changing, they put a little dolphin fin in their mark, and then they started giving away dolphin plush dolls at trade shows, and they thought it was going to be a one- People loved them. And it was silly, it was like, if ever there was a case where it’s a trade show and we’re serious, it’s like, no, we’re people and we have kids and we do things and so, yeah, Boring to Business is not what B2B should stand for. It really, you know, it’s got to be interesting and there’s so many ways of making it interesting if you’re committed to it. – [Chris] 100%. So I’m interested, because I think you and I come from fairly different worlds in that I’m a performance marketer by training, you know? So, I’m all up in Google ads and LinkedIn ads, I’m buying clicks and trying to convert them, so everything’s all about measurement for us. I think you listened to Udi’s episode where he was like, you know, measure, yeah, but like, don’t be so obsessive about it, and he told the story about their super bowl commercial and how they couldn’t measure it, but it worked. Do you find your clients, like, ’cause a rebrand is something that, in my view, you can’t just test it, you can’t put it in the market quickly and see how it responds, like you got to go all in or go all out. And then measurements seems to be a hairy scenario, like, do you hear a lot of CMOs calling for more measurement around the effectiveness of rebranding efforts? Or is it kind of just like, hey, let’s go with it and anecdotally say, you know, it’s working or not. – [Drew] So, there’s a couple of things in there, they might sound contradictory. One is that the CMOs are famous in the C-suite as reporting on too many metrics. And so this is all about, you know, in the book I talk about clearing away the clutter and radically simplifying it, and for metrics, that matters as well. And let’s face it, you know and I know, that a click is useless. Measuring a click is ridiculous. And even measuring, for example, how many downloads did somebody do? Because if it was that one person who read that one document that closed the million dollar sale, you know, so attribution and all that is really, really difficult and there’s arts, and you know it better than I do. But what we encourage is, let’s make sure that you do have brand health metrics in place. And in the book, I talk a lot about how you don’t necessarily have to spend, expense a lot of money on a brand tracking study, although that’s a smart idea, but you have to have surrogate measures for brand health, you absolutely have to do it, and it’s not that hard to do it. But if you think about it, a blended metric, where you’re looking at customer satisfaction, you’re looking at employee satisfaction, and then you look at some kind of acquisition number and some awareness number, you can create this blended brand health number. And one of the things that we encourage all CMOs to do when they do their first round of research, whatever it is, is ask an aided and unaided awareness question. You get that, benchmark it. Because then you’re going to know, and you can at least see six months from now that you did move the needle on some of these more intangible things like awareness, which we also know really matters. When was the last time you brought a product or service that you hadn’t heard of? – [Chris] 100%. Yeah, and in my world, we might use brand search volume. So we might look at how many people are searching for Panasonic Toughbook today versus six months from now versus a year from now. – [Drew] And that’s a great metric, and that’s one of the ones that I think you could use in a brand health metric, because you can look at that number as a percentage of say, pick two other competitors, right, and look at that number. What’s your share of that? And is it changing? And so, if you see an incremental move from you’re getting 20% of the searches to 30% of the searches, that’s good stuff and you can include that in your brand health. And so part of this is just being, rather than looking at that metric alone and five other metrics alone, create a blended brand health metrics that includes something like that, and that’s the one that you feature on your dashboard with your executive suite. – [Chris] 100%. And one thing that I’m noticing more and more is that, you know, especially some larger brands, they have their performance marketers, which are judged based on cost per acquisition, and then they’ve got their brand marketers which are more so in charge of like showing up in the right places, like they’ll find those communities of practice and buy media just to be there, or they’ll like, they’ll run the event and the sponsorship stuff, and they’re not so much held accountable on cost per acquisition but just being in the right place where your brands are. But I’m seeing some of the most savvy brands, and those two kind of live in their own worlds, usually, like they’re both in the LinkedIn account buying ads, but like, you have your campaigns and they have their campaigns. And sometimes there’s very siloed and limited communication, but we’re seeing an emergence, have you ever heard of performance branding? – [Drew] Yeah, I mean, there’s lots of, so we’ll call it euphemism because nobody wants to use the word brand with PE and VC firms, so they have to come up with other terms. Right? But I think the point that you were making is really spot on, and this is where the problem begins when I talked about the peanut butter effect is, you’ve got the demand marketers who are measured on one thing, and you’ve got the brand marketers who are measured on another. That’s ridiculous. There’s one goal, which is keep customers, increase lifetime value, right? And attract customers. That’s sort of, if we look at that and I’m skipping employees, but those have to be together and you can’t have separate metrics for separate departments, because otherwise they’re working across purposes. – [Chris] Yeah, that’s true. But I kind of like this concept of performance branding because even if you added some degree of measurability, like if you blended the overall cost per acquisition and you judge both of them or you measure both of them accordingly, that’d be great. But even adding some additional layers of measurement, some additional layers of accountability and just like, efficiency and effectiveness metrics to the brand side of the house, I think could be really valuable in that executives could basically see some tangible figures coming out of it. – [Drew] No, I agree. I think you have to have this combination of a brand metric and you obviously- Look, every CMO needs to be able to say, we’re contributing to pipeline and they need to know what that number is. And you could talk to Jamie Gilpin at a sprout social and she’ll tell you, 90% is marketing attributed, which is killer, right? And then you’ll get to other brands where that number might be 15%, but whatever it is, that is really important. They’ve got to be making a contribution to pipeline. My point though is, if you’re making a contribution to pipeline, brand is playing a role in that. And you see, here’s where brand is going to play a role, it’s going to be in the speed of close, right? It’s going to be in the number of times you’re included in an RFP, and so this is why just looking at CAC is problematic. – [Chris] 100%. And I mean, brand plays a huge role. Like, I’ll tell you a B2C story real quick is we had one of the nation’s largest window installation companies and they were just going market to market, expanding. Their home markets where east coast based and we were buying Google ads for them, and basically for every dollar that we spent, the general consensus is like, buy your brand ’cause it’s the cheapest clicks. That’s the last thing, you don’t want your competitors to get a hold of those clicks right? So, defend your brand is rule number one. And those clicks are usually cheap because there’s a lot of relevancy, Google can see that you are this company, you’re not just some imposter. So in our home markets, up to 50% of our spend would be this brand and the cost per conversion was like $15 or something, but even the non-branded cost per conversions where like say, 100. But when we went into a brand new market, like say even a west coast market where nobody had heard of them, the portion that you were able to spend on brand was minuscule, and the cost per was way higher, like to the tune of double or triple, because they didn’t have the benefit. This company had been running radio, and print, and like all these things, just banging it hard for 10 years, here, and it was a very stark difference over there. And we kind of knew that, but we saw it so clearly then. And then, so what they did was they turned on some of that brand spend and pretty quickly we saw branded search volume coming up, as well as CP, overall cost per acquisition coming down. So there is absolutely an equation and absolutely an argument to be made, and making that argument I think is important but sometimes difficult, especially for performance marketers like us to just say like, hey, let’s buy some radio ads and hope it helps. – [Drew] Well, but this is part of the thing that I would say to anybody listening to the show is, 20% of your budget should be an experimentation. And what you just described was a wonderful experiment that is easily done, right? You can take two markets and you can say, we’re going to run localized radio in one and we’re not going to run radio in the other, and we’re going to look at our performance marketing aspects of it. And you know, the story you told, it reminds me of a story that- Years ago, Travelocity was spending 70% of their dollars on search, and they got to the point where they couldn’t spend another dollar effectively, right? So then they flipped their budget and they spent 70% of their budget on television, and suddenly their search improved so much that they could spend more on search, right? And they could spend so much more efficiently. So the correlation between, and this is the thing that everybody forgets is, without awareness, there is no brand search. – [Chris] Yeah. – [Drew] Period. And without awareness, you’re going to be paying more for search, and that matters in B2B or B2C. It’s true for both. It’s so funny because awareness doesn’t hit home to a B2B CEO till he goes to his country club and he says where he works and they go, oh, I’ve never heard of that. Uh-oh. We need awareness, right? So anyway, there are a lot of ways to come to this realization, but really testing, and testing to triumph as I say in the book, is key, and people forget. – [Chris] Yeah. So I wish we had more time, but I know Google surveys, like in the B2C space you can do Google surveys that basically is a very inexpensive way you can get a thousand responses in any market, and it basically says, have you heard of this brand? Or like, which of these brands have you heard of? And your client will be listed among them, right? Do you know of a B2B platform that does something like that? – [Drew] Yeah, Pollfish you can do that. We’ve done it for a couple of brands on Pollfish, we worked with another company called Propeller Insights, it’s not as cheap as Google Survey. And I believe actually SurveyMonkey also has a panel, a B2B panel that you can tap into, and that’s the great thing is that there are these panels now that you can do this research. So there’s almost no reason not to, , do an employee survey, a customer survey and an awareness survey. There just isn’t. No excuses, guys. – [Chris] There’s an interesting platform that I’ve found recently. Well, actually, it’s my buddy Pep from Conversion XL started, but it’s called Wyntr, W-Y-N-T-R. And I don’t think it’s like an awareness surveying platform, but it’s more so just really high quality panelists where you can run your messaging past them, basically. And it’s not cheap, like on a per response basis, but the quality of responses and the titles and the individuals in there is like really high quality. But that’s one way to potentially just kind of litmus test your eight word story for different audiences. – [Drew] And I really struggle with that. It’s funny ’cause I talk about that in the book and my personal struggle. Here’s the reality of any kind of purpose-driven story statement. It doesn’t start to have meaning till you do all the things that I talked about, you know, the six things against employees, the six things against the customer. So a line, in and of itself, just sort of sits there. And there’s an example for my career I wrote, and it’s probably the best line I ever wrote for Family Circle, it’s where family comes first, and it was on the spine of their magazine for 19 years. I mean, it was crazy that that was there, but it never became real in the sense that they didn’t do the things that we said. You know, you ought to have a family first conference, you ought to own that on an annual basis with research, you ought to have a family first policy, right? All these things that you could do, and so my point is it was great language and we might’ve gotten good feedback on it, but it never quite got to the place it could’ve because there wasn’t execution. So, the risk of exposing an idea like that is that they’re just reacting to the words, not the actions. So if you have to, if somebody insists that you do it, you do it. But you know, in my mind, what you really are looking for is if I have this on the case idea where family comes first, can I come up with 18 ways to execute against it and then commit to doing that over a year to two year period? – [Chris] Yeah. I mean, that sounds a lot like, basically, don’t just slap a coat of paint on it, change out some of the parts. Is that what you meant by that? Like, operationalize these six things, start a conference, is that what you meant by that? Or did you mean literally like a new product or service or change the offer? – [Drew] It depends on the thing, so I’ll give you an example. So, Aetna came out with a line which is, we don’t serve you, you serve us, or something like that. No, we serve you, right? – [Chris] I was like, what? That doesn’t make sense. – [Drew] Yeah, yeah, yeah, I got their line wrong, but they spent six months retraining their employees on how to handle customer complaints and issues. So, for example, you call up and say, hey, I’m going to have knee surgery. And so, normally what the person would say is, okay, you’re approved to have that surgery. But what they were trained to say is, oh, you know, people who usually have knee surgery need physical therapy. Would you like a list of therapists that our insurance covers? Big difference, right? That operationalize that. Another thing they tried to do was say, they made it a policy that they would know the customers, so they had to re-change their whole database configuration so that everybody on customer service could access everything that was needed, so that when Drew called they could say, oh, hey, Drew, how’d the surgery go? – [Chris] Right. – [Drew] So that’s the ideal scenario. You have a new positioning, but it’s so big that it forces you to change something in your operations or something in your product that makes it real. – [Chris] I love that. You just actually changed my perception of rebranding because, you know, as a performance guy, I’m always like, why are you guys going to spend half a million dollars to rebrand? ‘Cause I just consider it to be a coat of paint, but when you add in and operationalize things like you just described, then you actually kind of become a new company in a way. That’s meaningful to me, even as a performance guy, you know? – [Drew] Yeah, and it gives you more to talk about as a performance guy, it gives you more focus, and this is the thing is that rebranding is a huge opportunity not to be wasted, and it happens so regularly as lipstick on a pig and barn paint, when it could be something meaningful. And if you really have a purpose-driven story statement, there are going to be operational changes that are needed to be made, because you’re suddenly purpose-driven when you weren’t before. So, that’s the idea. – [Chris] Well, there you have it, ladies and gentlemen. Oh, sorry. Go ahead. – [Drew] No, the last thing is, I really believe marketers can make the world better. I really believe that. And they can do that by bringing purpose to their organizations, but they got to make it real. – [Chris] I love it. We’re going to have another one about purpose, but there you have it, ladies and gentlemen. Drew Neisser dropping knowledge and just literally changed my whole perception of branding, from like those fru-fru, useless, aesthetic activity to like actually something meaningful and useful, so let’s rebrand. – [Drew] Let’s rebrand. Yeah, there you go. – [Chris] But hey, I really appreciate you, Drew. I appreciate your time today, your partnership in general. Let’s stay in touch. Let me know if there’s anything I can do for you. – [Drew] Same for you. I love what you’re doing with the show and you know, it’s been easy to work with you. We keep a vendor of program going on CMO Huddles, and several CMOs are already working with you and they highly recommend you, so keep up the good work. – [Chris] Absolutely. Thank you very much. We really appreciate you and we’ll be in touch. – [Drew] You got it. – [Chris] All right. – [Drew] All right, thanks. Bye.
7 minutes | Sep 22, 2021
3MM#21: The 3 Secrets to Driving Hypergrowth Online with Adam Goyette of Help Scout
Welcome back to “3-Minute Marketing”, the podcast where the world’s top growth marketing leaders reveal their most valuable & useful insights for driving acquisition, growing brands & building demand. On today’s show, I get the chance to interview Adam Goyette, VP Marketing at Help Scout. Adam has an impressive track record of being the “secret weapon” behind winning acquisition & demand programs at brands like G2, Thryv, FieldLens, Booker Software & Cision. He’s a brilliant tactical marketer & a passionate teacher of the craft of digital growth marketing. My question for Adam is, “What are your secrets to driving hypergrowth online?” This video is the exclusive, “extended cut” video. ?????????????????? Show Notes: Secret #1: Be willing to be scrappy. Don’t test one tactic or tool. Test quickly to see what works & then double down on winners Secret #2: Stand out in a sea of sameness. Don’t be boring. Take the time to create content & messaging that’s both different & high-quality. Secret #3: Hire amazing people to your team who care more about their end outcomes vs. the individual tactics they’re trying to do. In interviews, ask your hire for different data points to justify their previous work. Then ask them to tie it all together. To recruit amazing talent, figure out what makes your culture/company uniquely attractive. That’s where you’re going to win. Make your career awesome & move up by understanding ALL the numbers — not just the marketing side but on the sales side as well. CEOs & CMOs care about insight, not the nitty gritty of campaigns. “Sell the sizzle” of your campaigns to your sales team to show what you’re doing for them & win them to your side. Get alignment with your C-suite on where you want to be on customer acquisition cost payback while setting the expectation that that campaigns won’t hit that mark in the first few months. Adam’s latest winning tactic: competitor conquesting campaigns. For example, use a technographic research tool (like BuiltWith or Datanyze) to identify companies that onboarded a competitor recently, but their contract renewal period is coming up.
5 minutes | Sep 8, 2021
3MM#19: Master Your “Block & Tackle” To Win the Marketing Game with Hunter Montgomery
Welcome back to our latest episode of “3-Minute Marketing”, where we share actionable ideas & perspectives from the finest minds in growth marketing today. On today’s episode, I chat with Hunter Montgomery, CMO at ChurnZero. Hunter’s been in the B2B SaaS game for awhile now, driving marketing growth for brands like Verizon Business, Vocus & Higher Logic. We decided to change up the format a bit for this episode & just riff on various topics. But at the core of our conversation, we talk about the “unsexy” activities that can actually help you make the biggest impact as a marketing leader. This video is the exclusive, “extended cut” video. ????????????????? Show Notes: In a world of shiny objects, focusing on the “block & tackle” work is key to success in marketing. Don’t reinvent the wheel every time, take the plays that are already working & run with them. Keep your team doing new things & looking for their next “play” so they don’t get stuck. So what “shiny object” IS Hunter looking at? Currently, he’s implementing an ABM program with intent data. In order for ABM to work, sales & marketing both need to be bought in & aligned. As a marketing leader, getting your systems working the right way is priority #1. Priority #2 is measuring to figure out what’s actually working now so you can do more of that. Neither are sexy, but both are foundational to success. Marketing is much easier when you have a) a great product & b) visible experts in your company that can educate your market & help your prospects be more successful in their roles. ChurnZero helps you understand the “health” of your customers so you can reduce churn risk & drive upsells / cross-sells.
5 minutes | Sep 1, 2021
3MM#18: The Future of PR with Scott Baradell
Welcome back to another exciting episode of “3 Minute Marketing”, where we tap into the minds of some of today’s most brilliant growth marketing thinkers & share their best learnings with you. Today, I have Scott Baradell with me (CEO at Idea Grove). Scott leads a PR firm that’s doing some innovative work re-imagining the role & impact of PR for B2B tech brands. He’s excited because he’s soon going to be launching a new book called “Trust Signals” (trustsignals.com), which talks all about using PR to build a brand in the modern era. My question for Scott is, “What does the future of PR look like as you see it?” This video is the exclusive, “extended cut” video. ???????????????? Show Notes: The future of PR is all about securing trust at scale — without trust, lead gen & growth marketing efforts will hit the barren ground. It’s not just about “media relations” — PR will use all the tools of modern marketing to build trust across all touchpoints in the customer journey. There are 3 categories of trust signals to measure & optimize… Category #1 = website signals (like Better BB seals, team photos/bios, etc.) Category #2 = online (offsite) signals (like social media profiles, review sites, etc.) Category #3 = SEO signals (like quantity/quality of your backlink profile) PR will serve as the upfront “relationship building” that fuels the success of the “last mile” (AKA lead gen/demand capture programs) Transcript: – [Chris] What’s up everybody. And welcome to another episode of three minute marketing. I’m your main man Chris Mechanic here with my good buddy Scott Baradell, Scott runs an amazing B2B PR company out in the Dallas area with some awesome clients that do some fantastic work, we work with them personally. But we’re super excited to have you here, Scott, welcome to the show. – [Scott] Thank you for having me. It’s great to see you again, and yeah, we’ve enjoyed working with you guys. You guys have done great work for some of our clients. – [Chris] Yep. I know that you’ve been really busy lately as usual redefining the game basically we were talking earlier about basically PR and, and what it’s going to look like in the future. I know a lot of our audience here are kind of growth marketers, but I think that your take on what the future of PR looks like will be very interesting because at the end of the day, I think a lot of these things are all merging together. So let’s talk about the future of PR as you see it for three minutes and your time starts, now. – [Scott] Okay. Well talking about the future of the profession, I mean, it is about growth. I mean, we our motto is to help. We help our clients grow through trust. And by that we mean, lead generation is great. Growth hacking is great, but without trust, nothing else matters, everything kind of hit barren ground. And so that’s our job to kind of lay the groundwork to make that ground fertile or for the efforts of legion agencies, growth marketers, and so forth. So those things are all coming together. I believe the future of PR is not going to be about media relations, where the firm, agencies are focused on media coverage. It’s got to be something broader, but it also can’t be, you know, a media relations firm that also does a bunch of marketing stuff and calls itself integrated. That’s a marketing cafeteria. That’s not a strategic focus. So what does the PR firm of the future look like? I believe PR should be thought of, something that anyone can access in terms of concept the art of securing trust at scale. So I believe the modern PR firm must be able to use all the tools of modern marketing to help clients generate market and awareness, and trust, and that’s across every marketing touchpoint. So some of the tools that I’m writing about in a new book, I’m working on called Trust Signals are trust signals. I discussed 77 of these trust signals to help build trust with your customers and other audiences, website, visitors, audiences that are important to you. I discussed them in my book, on my blog to give you a high-level overview, they fall into three basic categories. There are website trust signals, and those are elements on your website that help that are evidence points to help build trust with your customers. That’s everything from a better business bureau seal to having detailed bios and photos of the members of your team. These are all elements that build trust. Off your website, there are what I call. Inbound trust signals. This is kind of your presence online, kind of in the wild off your website. That’s your social media profiles, your activity on social media, review sites and SEO trust signals. Those are things that only Google sees, but are very important, like your back link quantity and diversity. So I think this is the framework for the modern PR firm. And I think you can see how that relates very directly to the work of growth marketers. I think the brand to building those directly into that lead generation and revenue growth. – [Chris] A hundred percent. And that’s just about time. I do have a hundred other thoughts for you. I want you to stay on the line. I like this angle and I like the concept. And there’s so when we talk about signals, this may or may not resonate with you. We talk about, we think about the algorithmic signals that you send back to the Facebook or Google ads pixels, essentially. So basically, you know, all of our clients that are running Facebook have a Facebook pixel installed, and it’s the advertiser’s job to program that pixel to determine when to send success signals back. And there’s a whole bunch of different types of success signals that you can send back from like, view to key page, to became a lead, to purchase something, to repurchase something, to downloaded an app, whatever your KPI is, right? So, but the way that we win is that, you know, most clients, most or most advertisers will just send a trust signal back only on the, when they get a lead, like in the B2B space, they all send a trust signal back when they get a lead, we call it a like a data signal or just a success signal. They send it back on lead. But the way that we win in a lot of cases, is that we don’t send a trust signal back on lead, or we send a low value trust signal back on lead, but we’ll send a follow-up trust signal back when that lead becomes an opportunity or when that lead becomes a closed one deal. So in other words, we link CRM data and ping it back to Google ads and Facebook ads to say like, Hey, yeah, lead is okay, but really a closed one deal is what we want. So go find more people like that. – [Scott] That’s cool. – [Chris] So that at its, I don’t know that that’s actually a trust signal. It’s more of like, you know, data signal that you would, that you would send to algorithms. – [Scott] To help, to help enhance your, the quality of your leads and your sales efforts. You know, what I, why we partner with a great company like you guys is what I describe, having worked with clients in transportation and logistics and having been in telecom for years before I started an agency, you’re probably familiar with the term last mile, you know, last mile delivery. We’re not a last mile delivery firm. You know, we try to build that ground and establish the relationships that can then lead to more successful lead generation. And that last mile is so obviously critically important. And that’s something you guys are incredibly good at. And so I see that what you described as being part of that to kind of maximize a revenue generation based on optimizing the quality of the audience you’re going after. – [Chris] Yeah, yeah. We’re good at the invisible stuff, but you guys are like better at writing headlines than we are. I think. – [Scott] Yeah. We got some formal former journalists on staff. And so we’re kind of used to that world. – [Chris] Just let the users know or let the listeners know rather, where they can find you, how they can learn more about your book or maybe you might give away free copy to some listeners. – [Scott] Absolutely. Well, now the book isn’t out yet, but it doesn’t come out till later this year, however, trustsignals.com is a thought leadership site I’ve been working on for over a year now. There’s a lot of practical information on how to just practical ways to build trust with your customers, prospects, other audiences, reputation management stuff, how not to get canceled, all the things that are kind of going on right now in terms of building and protecting your reputation we talk about on the site. – [Chris] Brilliant. That’s a great URL. Trustsignals.com. All right, well, I’m going to check it out. I’m sure a lot of the listeners will too. And thank you for joining us today.
5 minutes | Aug 25, 2021
3MM#17: Why Growth Isn’t Always About Speed with Niki Hall
Welcome back to a fresh episode of “3-Minute Marketing”, the podcast where we dive deep into the minds of some of today’s most successful marketers to surface their best tactics and strategies. Today, I have the pleasure of talking with Niki Hall, CMO at Contentsquare. An experienced marketing leader in tech, Niki recently joined the company to help take this fast-growing company to the next level. This made me curious what marketing leaders can do to maintain or even accelerate the momentum of a brand that’s already on the rise. So my question for Niki is, “Dive into this concept of the speed of growth. What are the important factors of growth that marketing leaders should consider along the way?” This video is the exclusive, “extended cut” video. ???????????????? Show Notes: While speed is critical for growth, it’s not sustainable without a well-defined vision & strategy. A better approach is to have a sense of urgency, aligned to your purpose as a marketing organization. This keeps you from becoming reactive & focuses your team on what matters. Coach your team for success. Niki uses tools like StrengthsFinder to assess her team & guide them to areas where they can make a big impact. To take Contentsquare global, Niki tasked regional teams with having deep, “inside-out” knowledge of their region. She then created “centers of excellence” for performance & growth, brand, comms & social media with the functional expertise to help enable the regional teams to hit their pipeline targets. To measure the effectiveness of the Contentsquare brand, Niki leverages the “voice of the customer” by sourcing qualitative & qualitative customer wins. CEOs are by-and-large numbers-driven. To prove the value of the brand, you need to find data that tells the story of the impact of the brand on the business. Google trends or branded search impression volume can be good metrics to consider for this. Niki leans heavily on Contentsquare to drive wins across her marketing org. (which makes her an excellent evangelist for the product!) Transcript: Chris: Welcome everybody to another episode of Three Minute Marketing. I’m your main man, Chris Mechanic here, co-founder at WebMechanix, veteran performance marketer, and generally nerdy person. Super excited today to have Niki Hall on the show with us. Niki is a very impressive individual. She is currently CMO at Contentsquare, which is a digital experience analytics platform that empowers growth teams with the data that they need to increase revenue, engagement and growth. Prior to that, Niki has been with the who’s who’s of B2B tech brands; Cisco, Polycom, Five9, Selligent and just steadily doing awesome things and posting big wins. She’s also a member of the CMO Council of North America Advisory Board, and an official member of the Forbes Communication Council. Welcome to the show, Niki. Niki: Thank you, nice to be here. Chris: Absolutely. Super excited to have you. Well, I know that you’re very, very busy and I know that everybody is really eager to get to the topic of today’s show. So without further ado, I’ve got your question for you. Are you ready? Niki: I’m ready. Chris: All right. Talk to me just a bit about Contentsquare’s growth journey and dive into this concept of speed of growth and also just comment on what are the important factors of growth that marketing leaders should consider along the way? Niki: Okay, so Contentsquare was founded in 2012 and as a digital experience analytics platform, as you mentioned. We have steadily been growing year over year, experiencing massive growth. Of note over the past year, when the pandemic hit us, businesses were struggling to figure out their customers and how to stay afloat. And if you don’t have a solution like the Contentsquare platform, which literally just deciphers experiences one has with the brand, every touch point, click, mouse hover, blah, blah, blah, you don’t understand your customer. So 2020 was a massive year of growth for Contentsquare as driven by the pandemic. Chris: And then talk to us a little bit about your concept of the speed of growth. What should determine that speed of growth? Is it always just hair raising, hair on fire, as fast as possible? Niki: Yeah, in my experience, speed of growth, it’s super critical, but what you really need to have is a vision. You need to have a vision with a strategy and a purpose. If you know what success looks like, then it’s pretty easy to get there. And as a CMO, it’s my job to work with my team, to figure out what are the business objectives, ensure our vision maps to those and we have a strategy to achieve that. So speed is important, but I would say more of a sense of urgency. A sense of urgency with preciseness. That’s what I’m always mentoring and coaching my team on, “We need to have a sense of urgency. We need to have a purpose and it needs to align to the vision.” Chris: Yep, I love that. Walk with a purpose. That’s great. And what are some other critical factors in growing? You guys have grown leaps and bounds. Let’s say somebody’s at the precipice of that growth phase, what are some other important factors that they should consider? Niki: Yeah, the number one I’m always… Vision. Aligning to a vision, ensuring you have the right strategy aligned to that, to achieve those goals and how you will measure over time, big rolling four quarter plan. So, as companies are growing it’s important to not just knee jerk reaction on things, but be super true to that vision and strategy to achieve it, and check in. Check in with the teams, check in with your peers to make sure you’re all aligned, so it’s actually one company moving forward in a direction through a lot of growth. Chris: Yep, and now how do you handle different personalities? So, say that somebody, change is difficult for them, but they’ve got great talent. How do you handle fast change among your team? Niki: Yeah, coaching for success. I’m a big believer in coaching for success and doing the StrengthsFinder exercise, we’re going through it right now. I have a large global marketing team and we’re looking at what are the skills people have, because you need a 360 degree view. You need some strategics, some tactical, et cetera, so it’s really coaching everyone for success and using tools like the StrengthsFinder to do it. Chris: I love it. Well Niki, if you can stick around for a few minutes, I would love to continue our conversation. If we do that, there should be some links in the show notes, but otherwise, how can people learn more about you and Contentsquare? Niki: Go to contentsquare.com and literally every company that has been digitally transformed is using a solution like ours, so definitely check it out. We have awesome customers who love us. It’s all on the website, from Verizon to Microsoft to BMW, L’Oreal, Chanel, you name it. Chris: The site’s really nice too. Really well done. So, I know that you’re there. You’ve been there six months in the role. What’s big on your mind these days? What are your top priorities or your top sources of heartburn or wherever? What are you thinking about? Niki: No, my top priority really has been building out a marketing strategy to achieve this massive growth because we’ve grown so quick. It was just… It was explosive if you will, right, the growth. And so they brought me in to help put a strategy around it to help us go to our next phase. We’ve passed the hundred million ARR mark, which is awesome. And now our growth is just going to continue, light speed ahead. So my big role is building out the team, building out the marketing strategy, the operational efficiency measurements, ROI per channel, how do you increase lifetime value of a customer or reduce customer acquisition costs, all of that fun stuff. Chris: Yeah, that sounds like a big job. What do you credit to your growth to date? Is it mostly marketing inbound driven or is it mostly the sales team that’s driving a lot of the growth? Niki: It’s a mix. It’s a mix between marketing sources, roughly 50 to 60% of the pipe, depending upon what region and doc it’s about 70%. So it’s inbound, it’s outbound. And increasingly they brought me in to help build the brand, so people can know about us. And we were founded in France. So in France, everyone knows Contentsquare. And Jonathan Cherki, the CEO, he’s a celebrity over there. So I need to take all those fabulous ingredients we have and permeate it globally. And APAC has just opened… A couple of offices in APAC and Singapore and Australia. And then also in North America. Chris: Now, when you think about your marketing organization, do you have a brand communications team separate from a performance or demand gen team or do you blend them all together? Niki: Yeah, it is separate. What I came into, because we’ve had massive growth in what we call Western Europe, which is France, Italy, Spain, et cetera, great super talented team. And then Contentsquare decided it was going to expand to Northern Europe, London, Benelux et cetera. So they duplicated the team. Same thing with Doc, APAC, North America. What we didn’t have, was what you just said. We didn’t have corporate marketing, which was brand, comms, social media. We didn’t have performance and growth. Niki: Each team had their own demand gen strategies. So, when you’re trying to ask people to be everything to everyone, it doesn’t typically work. So my expectations of this model as we’ve evolved to global centers of excellence, is the regional folks know their region inside and out. You need to know France inside and out, what works in France, what influencers, if influencers work there. Same thing with the Nordics, et cetera. And then the centers of excellence, performance and growth, brand, comms, social media, they’re the ones who know all the functional expertise to enable the regions to hit their pipeline targets. Chris: Interesting view of the world. Niki: Yeah, it’s good, because what it does is it enables everyone to play their position and to be experts in their area, their domain expertise, if you will. Chris: Yeah, and I’m traditionally from a performance background. So the idea of brand and comms is a little bit foreign to my thinking, but how do you determine whether brand and comms is doing a good job? How do you measure that? Niki: Yeah, so we have a formula. We had to create a methodology for this company. Every company’s different. We have a total of five uber priorities that we measure for marketing, for where Contentsquare is in its journey and with brand and comms, it’s largely around raising the awareness in North America because we believe that’s going to be the largest growth opportunity for us. We have to continue the cadence in some of the areas where we already have high brand awareness, but it’s measuring the number of customer wins. So we have tons of customers who love us. Niki: So we started a weekly cadence of customer wins. So to be their voice, not our voice, but the customer’s voice saying why they chose Contentsquare, why they continue to do business with Contentsquare and the quantifiable metrics they received because of it. So things such as that. And it’s really helped a lot. Imagine a weekly cadence of a win coming across the wire. And if you don’t know Contentsquare, pretty soon you will. You’ll hear about it and it’s through other people’s voice. Chris: Yeah, a hundred percent. And there was the CMO of Gong, Udi Ledergor was on recently. And surprisingly, he said, one of his top five marketing techniques was to go with your gut and not be so data obsessed. And he gave an example that they actually did a super bowl commercial, which is almost impossible to measure granularly, but multiple sales reps reported, “Hey, I got more calls from prospects than I ever have before.” And they got write-ups here, right-ups there, so they anecdotally were, “That was one of the best decisions ever.” And everybody agrees, but nobody can point to one thing and say, “Hey, that’s what it was.” Niki: Yeah, it is hard. But early on in my career, one of my CEOs was Peter Leav. He’s now CEO of McAfee. And he was very [inaudible 00:11:09], and this is when I was at Polycom, I was VP of Corporate Marketing. So I had to learn in order to relate with Peter, I had to talk in numbers. And I was responsible for the brand at that point. So how do you quantify the brand and have a conversation with the CEO to get him leaning in and caring? And so I had to learn early on how to be super data obsessed about everything. And actually, luckily Jonathan Cherki, my CEO now, he’s super data obsessed and that’s why he created Contentsquare. And it works. You can actually measure pretty much everything in marketing, if you have the right tools, the right process, attribution, et cetera. Chris: Yeah, a hundred percent and I think, even at a simple level, you could use Google Trends or any type of Google keyword tool to just say, “Hey, what’s our branded search volume in this region or that?” At the simplest level. Speaking of tools though, tell us a little bit about your tech stack. What tools in tech can you not live without? Niki: Definitely Contentsquare, Contentsquare and Contentsquare. And it’s funny when I interviewed for this role… I understand why they need to raise the brand in North America because I’ve been a marketing leader in North America for many years and I’ve never heard of Contentsquare. And my very first interview was with Jonathan Cherki, the CEO. And I said, “Well, show me the solution.” Because when I choose a company, the company has to have a great culture, awesome products, high growth, et cetera, et cetera. I have the top five. Niki: And when he showed me the product, I was, “Oh my goodness, how come I’ve never known about this?” I’ve used other analytics tools and it will give me heat map, but this one literally quantifies. It quantifies the opportunity you’re leaving on the table if you don’t address it. So, definitely Contentsquare and Contentsquare. And then all your other traditional… Salesforce, everything else that most companies have. Chris: I’m curious, what do you use, your dashboard? You come into work on a Monday or before you leave on a Friday, what components do you have on your exec level dashboard? Niki: Yeah, we’ve just built this out, because that was… My first hire was a head of marketing, operations, planning, and strategy a Mops person. And she’s amazing because if you don’t know your baseline, how do you know what success looks like and how to achieve it. Because she built out a dashboard for me and we just hired a BI person. So today it’s just Salesforce, which is fine, it’s good. It gives me something to show where we, from a sales perspective, ACB perspective. Niki: But over time, they’re building out all the aspects that I need around brand, comms, demand gen targeted to the customer journey, all of those elements. Right now, because we’ve grown pretty quickly, we’ve used Excel up to this point, which is not the most sexy thing to use, but at least it gives me some visibility to what are the metrics per area? How are we achieving against it quarter over quarter, year, over year. And Diana, my head of Mops, she’s building that out into true dashboards for me. Chris: So in your six months there, I know that six months isn’t a lot of time, but have you put anything in place or has something maybe already been in place that you discovered that was… That you viewed to be pretty advanced or next level or interesting or cool? Niki: I would say, I don’t mean to keep giving it a plug, but the reason why I joined this company is to miss all the tech. So the Contentsquare and Contentsquare, that solution is super awesome. Since you grew up in, you said digital marketing, you need to check it out. It’s really cool. Chris: Yeah, a hundred percent. Niki: Even more than just… Anyone, it’s not just digital marketers, it’s anyone who cares about data. We collect trillions of data points every single day, not on the actual individual, but the movement, everything else. So I would say that’s probably the thing that I’ve been most passionate about. There’s other things, we’re doing a market intelligence project so we can figure out the TAM and the CAGR and the penetration, so that’s cool, that my team’s leading, but there you go. Chris: Let’s talk about the product because it is sick. I’ve never used it actually, but I’d love to- Niki: We need to get you a demo. See that button that says get a demo, you need to click it. Chris: Yeah, a hundred percent. And I do love… Look at this demo request page, how clean is this? I love that you have the subtle directional cue here pointing to the optional field. Niki: Yeah, and we’re implementing something new this week to reduce form fill friction. I can’t recall the name of the solution, my performance and growth team, they’re doing it, but that shouldn’t even reduce that form fill friction to have greater conversions as well. Chris: Yeah, maybe using a Clearbit or a data pen, because if you’re getting work email, then you can easily pull first name, last name, company, job title. So you could basically just have work email. Niki: Yes, and we weren’t using… We didn’t have… You see right there on the left, leader in G2 and all that, we weren’t using that. Which is so interesting because we have so many customers who love us. I was in a CAB last week for Europe and then the CAB kickoff the week before to North America. And there’s so many customers who love us and said they can’t run their business without us, yet we weren’t marketing it. And so now we have a direct focus on incenting the customers to say, “Please write a review.” And a review in general, but also the Gartner Peer Insights, because what’s new this year with Gartner MQ, the Magic Quadrant, they no longer ask companies to submit names of customers that they will then call. They actually use the Gartner Peer Insights to figure it out. Chris: Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. While you’re at it, implementing Clearbit, there’s some other interesting things you can do with dynamic content, in the realm of personalizing for a firm by the firm name or personalizing even by other firmographics such as industry and such, there’s this thing… I think it’s this tool, Conversion Data AI. No, that’s not it. Niki: I know Nambase, they do reverse IP lookup and all that, right? Is that what you mean? Chris: Yeah and Clearbit can do that too. So you can use Clearbit to customize the content on your site by say vertical. And it doesn’t match every single visitor, it might match 50% of the visitors or something and you can display their company name or you can display vertical or you can add them to retargeting lists by vertical and show retargeting ads focused around healthcare versus business services, something else. Niki: Interesting. So you should definitely request that demo on Contentsquare. Chris: I should, and I’ll tell you one other thing that you may want to test, that we did before on a demo request page, because we have a segment of clients in the B2B SaaS space. We added an option to have the in-person demo or to view a pre-recorded demo. Overnight, the overall conversion rate just skyrocketed with many people choosing the pre-recorded demo. And in this particular case, the sell-through rate, the conversion of that lead to a deal, remained steady enough that it made sense, but it was a lower ticket product. So, if you did that, you would almost certainly get more conversions on this page, but you would then just need to make sure to measure the personal demo to purchase rate versus the recorded demo. You know what I mean? Niki: Interesting, we’ll try that, thank you. Chris: Well, I’ve done a lot of talking here and I know that we’re almost up on time. Do you have any questions or do you have any topics on your mind you want to bring up or any closing thoughts? Niki: No, I would just say any company that’s been digitally transformed and literally it’s been every company, should definitely check out a solution such as this. Definitely check out Contentsquare to figure out how you understand your customers. And I would say, do business with people who are actually doing good. We acquired a company that does web accessibility. So digital accessibility for all that you can just put a plugin in and your site will then be accessible for people who might be dyslexic, who might be… Who can’t see very… Different things. And so today, a product is a product is a product, but I think people want to do business with people who are doing socially good in the world. So it’s another reason to check out Contentsquare. Chris: Absolutely. Well, thank you very much, Niki. I really appreciate your time. I know you’ve got a lot of stuff to do, so I really enjoyed the convo and I hope you’ll come back sometime. Niki: Thank you very much.
6 minutes | Aug 18, 2021
3MM#16: Five Secrets For Marketing Success with Udi Ledergor
Welcome to the latest episode of “3-Minute Marketing”, the show where we ask the greatest marketers of our time to reach into their treasure chests and reveal their best marketing gold. Today, I’m thrilled and honored to be speaking with legendary growth marketing genius Udi Ledergor, CMO at Gong. For those that don’t know yet, Udi is the marketing mastermind that helped Gong become the de facto leader in the revenue intelligence category and grow to a $1B+ valuation. My question for Udi is, “What are your top 5 secrets for marketing success?” This video is the exclusive, “extended cut” video. ???????????????? Show Notes: Secret #1: Strategy before tactics. Ignore the “shiny objects” Secret #2: Don’t produce anything you wouldn’t want to consume. Secret #3: Start outbound on day 1. Secret #4: Never compromise on the people you hire. Secret #5: Don’t obsess about measurement. Instead, do what feels right for the brand. Bonus Tip #1: Learn how your CRO “takes their coffee.” Bonus Tip #2: Use a conversation intelligence tool to get insight from your sales team, customers & competitors. Bonus Tip #3: To build your strategy, first define your goals. Then reverse engineer your success. Bonus Tip #4: Humanize your marketing to connect with your customers. Bonus Tip #5: Set aside 10-20% of your budget to place “bets” on intuitive plays that are harder to measure. Transcript: – [Chris] Hey, welcome back, everybody to another episode of Three Minute Marketing, the world’s shortest and highest value per minute marketing podcast. We love to interview growth, marketing leaders and unicorns. We love cross-channel, cross-disciplinary, just kind of growth-minded individuals. So I’m super excited today to have Udi Ledergor on the show today. Udi is a very, very impressive individual. I’ll let you say a couple of things about yourself, but currently he’s heading up marketing at Gong, which is a very hot brand, very sexy brand. I know you guys are in the billions in terms of valuation at this point, and you’ve been there since very early on. So I have so much to talk to you about. It’s unfortunate that this is Three Minute Marketing, but welcome to the show, Udi. – [Udi] Hey, thanks for having me. Super excited to be here. Yes, I’ve been with Gong for, coming up to five years now. Gong is the fifth company where I was the first marketer and built in marketing team. And this one is definitely the greatest, and growing the company to new heights. So super, super excited to see where we go next. – [Chris] A hundred percent. So you are so knowledgeable on a variety of topics, I wanted to give you something a little open-ended, so that you could talk about whatever it is that you think is relevant. But my question for you today, is what are your top three or your top five secrets for marketing success? – [Udi] All right, let’s get going. Top five secrets for marketing success. Number one is strategy before tactics. On the day that you get your email as the new head of marketing, you will start getting emails from every agency, tech vendor and partner who wants to work with you. Ignore them all, figure out your strategy before you send out your first email or do your first social posts, because the easiest thing to do in marketing is get busy with activities and campaigns. And they’re usually going to be a huge waste of your time and money, unless you have a clear strategy behind them. So strategy before tactics, that’s number one. Number two, don’t produce anything that you wouldn’t want to consume. If you were to receive this email, if you were to show up to this webinar, would you leave a raving fan? If not, mix it and start over, create something that you would be excited to consume. Just like the Netflix series that you’re binging on, that’s the level of excitement you want to create. Number three, don’t wait for inbound to come in. You need to start outbound on your first day on the job. Hire that SDR, give them a script, sit over their shoulder, or install something on Gong to listen to their calls, and start outbound. That’s the only way you’re going to make it to your next round without running out of money first. Inbound, you should start building, but don’t expect it to bring in fruits before, I don’t know, 12 months or 18 months. Number four, never on the people you hire. Never compromise on the people you hire. Every person you add can either give you 10x more value or suck up 10x of your energy. Never compromise on the people you hire. And last and not least, number five, don’t obsess about measurement. Do what seems right for the brand. Even if you’ve got a great gut feeling, go for it. If it works, you will know, even if it doesn’t show up on the dashboard. – [Chris] Love that. Well, that was very good and very succinct, resonates heavily. So I particularly loved the content piece. Your first piece was kind of like about noise. I am interested ’cause I’ve heard other executives talk about focus. You know, how do you evaluate different ideas, different options. There’s so many of them. How do you separate the signal from the noise and determine what to do on a daily, weekly, monthly basis? – [Udi] Well, you need a clear objective of, “What am I trying to achieve this quarter?” I have four very specific goals for this quarter, and almost every single thing I do ties up into one of those four goals. If I see something in my inbox or someone shoots me an idea… I mean, just today, I had to reject someone on LinkedIn who had an amazing idea that I told him I would love to do that, it’s just not in the four goals for me this year. Let’s talk next to year. It might be the right time. So once you have those priorities, keep them in front of you. It gives you the focus that you need. – [Chris] 100%, and it’s interesting, oh, well, we’re out of time now, but, hey, let’s end right here. We can continue. So if you’re listening to this right now and you want to hear the rest of Udi’s and I’s conversation, you’ll find a link somewhere within the show notes for more. UDI, where can folks learn more about you or Gong? – [Udi] Go Gong, you would find it Gong.io. That’s the best place to go. Subscribe to our blog, even if you’re not ready to buy revenue intelligence yet. You don’t want to miss Devin Reed and the content team’s blog. We come out every week with amazing content that really helps salespeople and sales leaders everywhere. The best place to follow me and connect with me as on LinkedIn. So there’s only one Udi Ledergor. So I should be pretty easy to find, and I don’t post every day, but hopefully when I do post, it’s helpful. – [Chris] Perfect. Yes. And I can attest to that. Gong is an awesome product, kind of a category creator in my view, and you very much practice what you preach in terms of only content that you would want to consume yourself, even the free content is next level. So thank you very much, Udi, and stay on the line. – [Udi] My pleasure. – [Chris] All right, we’ll see you. Gong strikes me as an organization that is particularly close knit when it comes to the sales and the marketing orgs respectively. – [Udi] Absolutely, I’ve mentioned that I’ve headed marketing for five companies, and none of them were sales and marketing as closely knit as we are here at Gong. And it’s a big, big part of our secret. I’ve written about it, and I’ve presented extensively about it. If you’re a marketer somewhere out there that is not closely connected with your CRO, or as I like to say, if you don’t know how they take their coffee, you’re doing it wrong. And my advice would be, number one, try and create that relationship, that you know how they take their coffee, and wham, and be there at least once a week when they take their coffee, to work together on challenges and needs and what’s working, what’s not working. If you cannot create that relationship, if your sales leader is not open to that relationship, you should move on and go somewhere else. Because I don’t know of a way to be a successful marketer at a B2B company when you’re not like the two-headed machine that is sales and marketing. – [Chris] So how does that look? How does that play out in real life? – [Udi] In real life, it looks like this. My team is deeply embedded within the sales organization. When I say deeply embedded, while we were still at the office, my head of demand gen used to sit more often within the SDR open space than he did within the marketing team. I used to go find him there if I needed something from him. Today, my marketing team members are in all of the sales Slack channels, all of the internal channels. My ABM manager’s in the upmarket sales channel, the other marketers are in the internal sales Slack channels, where people ask questions that we can jump and help them with, right? Just today, someone was asking about some esoteric competitor that we hardly heard about. So my competitive intelligence product marketer jumps in with an answer, because he’s there, we are present. We solve their problems, so they come to us for more of that. And we know exactly what they’re dealing with right now, so we can stay ahead of the curve and solve that for them. If you’re not there, if you build on what your sales team is struggling with this week, you can’t be there to help, they won’t rely on you to help them in the future, and that’s how you start drifting apart. And from there, it’s really, really hard to repair. – [Chris] How does the marketing org use Gong, the product, ’cause I know it it’ll tell you a lot of interesting things, like this is the most important objective, or like the top performers focus on this topic more so than others. Are your marketers in there using Gong? – [Udi] Of course, we could talk about this a lot, but one of the reasons we love working for Gong is that we get to use our own tools, so we drink our own champagne, as we like to say. And one of the many ways we use Gong is, A, to see how our own marketing materials and messaging and pricing are landing, how are the sales team delivering them, who is delivering them, ’cause it’s not going to be equal across the board. So we can tap on the shoulder, folks that we see are struggling with delivering the latest messaging and decks. If someone’s using an old version, is it because they missed the training? Is it because they didn’t like what they saw? So that’s one thing we do. And the other thing is we listen to the voice of the customer. So we hear how customers are responding to our messaging. What aha moments are they having. When they go like, “Whoa, dude, that’s sick,” we know, okay, we’ve nailed something. Let’s this replicate this. And we have those sound snippets. Sometimes with customer’s consent, we even publish them. And it’s really cool to listen to. So you can really get those aha moments in a very unfiltered way. Other things that we hear about are which competitors are coming up, what are we getting compared to? What is happening in the market? Last year when COVID hit, we heard from a lot of customers their sales team were having to go through their buyer’s CFO to get approvals for deals that were way below the threshold that they previously had to. So we quickly created content for our customers, how to get through the CFO, and created a template for that. That became our number two or three most downloaded piece of content within a few weeks of launching. Because we had ears in the market, we heard what the market was struggling with, we could put out content to address that immediately. And I honestly don’t know how other teams do it these days. – [Chris] Yeah, so we talk here internally a lot about strategy, and we oftentimes almost joke, because the word strategy is so broad. It means a lot of things to a lot of people. It’s difficult to define or pin down. Your number one thing was, “Hey, figure out the strategy.” Like what in your mind are the essential, the core elements of strategy. Like if you have a blank page with 10 slots where you need to fill the strategy, and what are those slots? – [Udi] We’re talking about marketing strategy, right? – [Chris] Marketing strategy, yeah. – [Udi] So we start with the end goal, what does success look like? Okay, depending on the time span of your strategy, hopefully it’s a long-term thing, so maybe short-term strategy would be for one year, or longer term for three to five years. What does success look like? Just imagine, like, what is the next Wall Street Journal headline mentioning your company? What are they talking about? About a certain success in the market, about certain revenue, about an acquisition, about an IPO, what do you want to be known for? Start from that and then work back, okay, where am I right now? What do I need to do to get to get there? And you re-engineer that saying, okay, let’s say I want to be… I remember one of the first strategy meetings we have, I think five years ago, was, within a year, we want to have double the social media mentions of all of our competitors combined. In other words, if you take 100% of the social media mentions of what we then called conversation intelligence, we want two out of three of those to be about Gong. That seems like a really tall order, but we said, okay, that’s what success looks like, so we know that we’re dominating the market. And so what do we have to do in order to do that? And we build a whole content marketing strategy out of that. Then we set out measurement tools to measure what our competitors were doing, both on their company profiles, and then on their executive profiles. And once a month, we have people tally up all those numbers and we measure that. And within a few months, we clearly saw that we were dominating not just 67% of the social media mentions in our field, but more like 85% or 80% in some months of all the social media of conversation intelligence. So that’s what it looks like when you understand what the goal is, how are we going to reach it? How are we going to measure it? And you can do that for any big audacious business goals, as long as you know where you want to see yourself at any given point in time in the future. – [Chris] Yeah, so what do you figure is Gong’s biggest secret, without giving too much away to any competitor, but like your five tips were like really good, but like a lot of people talk about strategy, first tactics, a lot of people talk about good content. I did really enjoy the outbound piece, but what’s really the secret sauce behind Gong’s marketing-driven growth? – [Udi] I’d say the two things, one of them I cannot take credit for, the other I’ll take some. The first one is we started marketing, when my CEO called me, we had 12 beta customers, and they already saw amazing product market fit. It’s way easier to build an award-winning marketing strategy and team around a product that has amazing product market fit. It’s really, really hard, to the point of impossible to do that if your customers don’t really use the product or use it, but don’t like it. – [Chris] Yeah. – [Udi] So that is something, and that’s a career tip maybe for marketers. Look for that product market fit if you’re joining a company that already has a product, because you won’t be able to fix that, you won’t be able to fix that. And even if you’re the most brilliant marketer in the world that can do the most creative things in marketing and measure them obsessively, it won’t matter if customers hate your product and are turning left and right. And we can all think of companies where we know that happens. So one is at the company level, it’s not even a marketing thing, we have lots of raving fans of our customers. In other words, product market fit. That makes everything infinitely easier for marketing, for sales, for CS, for finance. I mean, just name it, it’s easier once you have that great product market fit. The other thing that we chose to do really, really early, that I think a lot of companies get wrong, is we decide that our marketing is going to be completely human. I know in the last couple of years, more and more companies are talking about it, and some are even implementing it, but it was pretty novel five years ago when we started doing this. You could count on one hand the number of B2B companies that were doing marketing that reads like a human being, because most companies want to be the number one authority and have all the respect and trust of everyone in their field, but they confuse that with being stuffy and boring. I’m not going to name any brands, because I don’t want to get into trouble with anyone, but think of brands that you know that you do recognize as being authoritative, but there’s nothing cool about them. You wouldn’t invite them to your next dinner party. – [Chris] Like IBM. – [Udi] Because they’re stuffy… And you said it, I’m not going to mention any brand names, but we all know these stuffy brands that are authoritative, but really, really boring as hell. So we decided to create this seemingly impossible thing of being recognized as the number one authority in our fields, but being the friendly guy or gal that you want to have drinks with at your next party. And that I think is what we’ve created, and everything we do, the experience we create in our events, the tone of voice and the imagery that we use on our website and our social media and in our content and in our webinars, it all derives from there. How can we be this friendly person that you come to for help and be approachable and be fun. I mean, go to our website and talk to the Bruno bot, that’s the bulldog chat. He’s scheduling hundreds of meetings a month at the leading revenue intelligence platform, right? So we’ve proven that it’s possible to be the number one authority in your field without being boring. I think that is the one thing that my team and I can take credit for, beyond the product market fit which I mentioned. – [Chris] That’s brilliant. And my rule number one in marketing is probably anything but boring. It’s like the last thing you want to be as boring. And I think you guys are playful, even down to the name, Gong, I was just like, bong, on the sales floor, just like it was ringing. – [Udi] There you go. – [Chris] I absolutely love that, man. I like a lot about what you’re saying. Talk to me about the last thing on measurement. So I’m curious about what your measurement, your kind of dashboard looks like, but more so, how do you… I kind of think of it almost as similar to the difference between brand and performance. Like a lot of larger organizations, they’ll have a brand and comms team, and then they’ll have the performance marketers. I don’t think that’s the case in your guys’ world, but how do you think of the difference between brand and performance, measurable versus non-measurable, and what is your measurement system look like? – [Udi] Yeah, so I mentioned this in my top five things. I don’t obsess about measurement. And I don’t measure your marketing, right? You won’t have a seat for long in the management room or for five minutes in the boardroom if you can’t show up with some meaningful dashboards and metrics showing how you’re contributing to business, that’s not what I’m saying. What I’m saying is… A few months ago, I had an idea of let’s do a Super Bowl commercial, and very few B2B companies have ever in the history of Super Bowl done Super Bowl commercials, but knowing my brand and my audience, I thought it would be perfect for our brand. And I thought that at the very least with the long-term impact of this, it would be impossible to measure. And at best we’ve got some short term impact that we’d see by leading indicators like website traffic, website conversion, and maybe even some opportunities created. But I wasn’t setting any high expectations for that. And I got my CEO excited, and then I got the CFO’s approval, and we even checked with a few board members, and they said, “You know, normally we would’ve said no to other companies, but at Gong we know Udi sort of knows how to do these things creatively. We trust you to do this. And I’ve got those emails from the board member. So my CEO forwards them to me with a headline that says, “Basically your neck is on the line. Good luck.” And then I went and did a Super Bowl commercial, and it felt right, because I was getting texts and messages on Superbowl Sunday from AEs saying that they’ve gotten hundreds of messages from their prospects that day. Think about it, an AE getting hundreds of messages from the prospects. “I just saw on the Super Bowl. Oh my God, that’s amazing. That’s so exciting. I want to move forward.” We had interviews with candidates that week, that wrote in an email, “The reason why I took the recruiters call is because I saw your Super Bowl commercial on Sunday.” So we’re getting all this anecdotal ROI, but, wait, I saved the best for last. At the end of the week, it turns out we broke all of our records for new business opportunities created in a single week at Gong. So we had the best week ever for new business opportunities. So even the grumpy CFO got the short term ROI that we were looking for. Tim, we love you. You’re not really grumpy, but it makes a better story. So my point is I was very comfortable charging forward with this knowing that I would likely not be able to measure a lot of the impact. I got fortunate and lucky that a lot of the impact was measurable at the end of the day. But I keep doing these things. We’ve since sponsored a bunch of other TV programs, some of them probably were complete flop. Others probably will have a longterm impact that we can’t yet measure. And I’ve done out-of-home for the same reasons. And I’m experimenting with radio and podcasts and a bunch of other things that are really hard to measure. But if you have a strong gut feeling that this could work for your brand, you should have a reserve part of your budget, 10%, 15%, maybe 20% of your budget to do these things with. And they usually pay off. – [Chris] I love that. I love that sentiment. And in a world of data, data, data, measure everything, test everything, I just love the message of use your intuition, go with your gut sometimes. – [Udi] Absolutely. – [Chris] I love that. – [Udi] Hey man, I want to be sensitive to your time. I know time is up, but I really enjoyed it. Will you come back sometime? – [Chris] Of course, thanks for having me, and let’s stay in touch.
6 minutes | Aug 11, 2021
3MM#15: How To Get Ahead In Your Digital Marketing Career with Shelley Morrison
Welcome back to 3-Minute Marketing, the show where we interview the leading players in growth marketing & get them to share the best plays in their playbooks. Today, I’m thrilled to be speaking with a unicorn named Shelley Morrison, VP of the Global Demand Center at Domo. Shelley’s had an impressive career trajectory, having overseen digital strategies for nearly a dozen B2B technology brands in the last 5 years alone. I asked Shelley, “What are some things up-and-coming marketers could do career-wise to get ahead — to get that job they want or be considered for a promotion?” This video is the exclusive, “extended cut” video. ???????????????? Show Notes: When looking for your next move, seek opportunities for challenge & growth. Ask yourself, “Is it scary?” If yes, that’s a GOOD sign to pursue. Learn and understand your entire organization to discover how marketing can make the biggest impact. Make your boss look good by challenging them with newer/better ideas. Then let them run it up the chain. Advocate for yourself: Tell your manager, “This is where I want to go in my career.” Then work with them to define the milestones to get there and OWN it. Don’t just personalize in your marketing — humanize. Create an experience (content, etc.) that is designed to solve your prospects’ unique problems. Transcript: – [Chris] Welcome everybody to another episode of Three Minute Marketing; the world’s shortest and highest value growth marketing podcast. Where we like to really dive deep into the brains of the world’s leading growth marketers. I’m your main man, Chris Mechanic, co-founder here at WebMechanix and veteran performance marketer, myself. I’m super duper excited about today’s guest, who is Shelly Morrison. Shelley, it seems like you’re basically the CMO of DOMO. I know your title is not that. – [Shelley] I am definitely not that, but thank you. – [Chris] You can introduce yourself, but I was just, I’m super impressed with Shelley. She’s like the ultimate unicorn. We love unicorns here. You know, we love the idea of like, I do believe that the marketer of the future is this kind of like, cross-sectional kind of unicorn, but I think you’re the definition of that. And you’ve had a story and an awesome career where you were just rising through the ranks at an agency. And then, you were with Accenture. So, I’m really impressed. And I’m really- it’s days like this, that I’m sad that it’s called three-minute marketing, but welcome to the show. – [Shelley] Thank you so much for having me. – [Chris] Yeah. So, I do have a topic for you today, and it’s not exactly a growth marketing focus, but you’ve been so successful in your career. And just so, you know, seemingly- what, what’s the word? Seemingly very, you know, you intentionally kind of grow. Like if you look at your LinkedIn, it’s just promotion, promotion, promotion. I want to talk about some of the other things. Like you’re clearly a, a badass when it comes to marketing. Right? And that’s kind of- that’s par for the course, but what are some other things that more up and coming marketers could do career-wise to get ahead, you know, to get that job that they want or be considered for that promotion? – [Shelley] Oh yeah. That’s a great one. So, thank you. I am so glad that you, you think I’m a badass. I think I’m a badass, too. So, you know, when I really think about like, how did I get where I got, what it really comes down to is, is a couple of things, adaptability. Right? And being able to really pivot and make and- you know, look at data and insights and make invaluable decisions that really, honestly make your boss look good. I think that’s- I mean, it’s true, right? You do the things that make your boss look good and you become indispensable. But all at the same time, you’re really learning and challenging yourself. So, every career decision I’ve made, shift I’ve made, I’ve done with this idea of, is it going to challenge me? Am I going to learn something that I just have never learned before or will change the way I do a thing within digital marketing? And you know, is it scary? Honestly, sometimes the best things I’ve done is, it’s very scary. You know, my past agency, I shifted from building this, you know, digital media and analytics arm to actually running all of customer success sales and marketing. And like, those are completely different roles in a agency world. But what it did is; it challenged me to think about something in a different way. So, that as a marketer, I had that bigger view and that, that kind of 30,000- like this is what goes on at an entire organization And how, what I can do, and this marketing focus affects all of these things, so. – [Chris] A hundred percent, a hundred percent agree. And I’m curious, like, so do you just have some intuitive sense of what will make your boss look good? Or are there like some rules of thumb, like in order to make your boss look good? Because I do agree that goes a long way, for sure. Right? How do you know? – [Shelley] That’s a- How do you know? You build relationships, relationships are really important, right? Building a relationship and being reliable and not being scared to challenge and come up with new ideas, I think is really important. That’s one of the ways that I think I have become invaluable to folks like my, you know, my bosses, previous bosses and managers is if I disagreed with something and thought there was a better way or a more interesting way or a more innovative way to do it, I would bring it to the table. And to them, that’s like, especially in digital marketing, like you want that, you want to be challenged and you want to innovate. And so, that’s the kind of stuff that makes your boss look good. Cause you bring an idea and then, they sell it up the ladder and everyone’s like, yeah, this is awesome. You get a lot of folks excited. – [Chris] I love it. So, we have like 15 seconds. I’m curious. Have you, do you generally apply for these promotions or they just come and knock on your door and promote you? – [Shelley] I am an advocate for myself. If I want something, I will tell my manager, this is my goal, this is where I want to go and talk about it. How I’m hitting these milestones to get to where I think I need to go. So, I take that ownership on myself. I don’t leave it to my manager to do it for me. – [Chris] I think that’s huge, too. Cool. Well, that’s it for today’s episode. I would love to continue wrapping with you, Shelley, if you have a few minutes. – [Shelley] Yeah. Let’s do it. – [Chris] There will be some show notes or a link in the show notes rather, to the bonus content. Before we go, if folks are curious about DOMO or want to learn more about you, how can they do it? – [Shelley] Oh, well, I mean, obviously you can go to domo.com. I mean, at the end of the day, I’ll just give you the quick elevator pitch on DOMO, but basically DOMO delivers modern BI platform that helps organizations better integrate, interpret, and use data to drive informed decision-making and action across entire businesses. So, really it’s bringing that real-time data together that it can be to build insights and actually be actionable to an entire business. – [Chris] Yeah, and I know there’s a lot of modeling and some predictive stuff in there. So, you want to talk about leveraging AI? Everybody’s like, AI this. – [Shelley] This is leveraging AI. Yes, absolutely. – [Chris] Cool. Well thank you so much, Shelley, stay on the line. So DOMO, so you guys are B2B, so I’m big on like, I like, I love tools. I love finding a new tool. I love like finding a new technique that works predictably. I have several kind of like growth formulas, you know, that work well with B2B, SaaS and tech. What are some, what’s the new hotness for you guys? Like what are you doing? You know, what are your top initiatives right now? In terms of- – [Shelley] Oh gosh. – [Chris] Or point me in a direction of your interests. Are you interested in search or social or copyright? – [Shelley] I mean, so we do it all. Cause I run a demand center. So, the demand center is all digital marketing and events, all digital media and events. So think of all the demand, gen activities, search, paid, social, content syndication, but also events. So digital events, webinars, like all of that stuff falls into my kind of purview. So if I think about like, what is the most important, they’re all important. But I think the biggest challenge of all of them is actually events right now, right? Because everything is still virtual, zoom fatigue is a real thing. – [Chris] Yeah. – [Shelley] And so, you know, getting that right, making sure that the way we’re building and executing these events really resonates. It’s the humanization and personalization aspect, like how do we really make this relevant to someone to spend 30 minutes or an hour sitting with us to talk to us about our product. – [Chris] Right. – [Shelley] No matter how cool I think it is. Cause I get super nerdy on the data stuff and I, you know, it was a big, a big fan of DOMO before I joined. But you know, people are still very busy and they’re tired. And so, you know, events is, is one of those things that I think is a big, big area of innovation for me right now. – [Chris] Yeah. Interesting. I’ve been, I’ve actually never played with it, but I’ve been seriously considering toying around with this tool, Webinar Jam. Have you seen that? – [Shelley] Not Webinar Jam. No. – [Chris] A lot of these B to C direct response marketers like, like a lot of coaches or consultants have this funnel where they essentially drive you to a webinar. But then on that webinar page, there’s a perception that the webinar’s about to start in like five minutes. Where really it’s a prerecorded webinar and you never really, technically have to say that it’s live. I mean, it could be prerecorded just starting in five minutes. – [Shelley] It’s an on demand. – [Chris] But the idea is basically that you get higher opt-in rates obviously, but, I can show you a quick example of what I’m talking about, but I know for a lot of our B2B clients, webinars are just like a great, you know, mid funnel source and asset type to be. – [Shelley] They, they. They are. But I think the challenge that we all face is kind of what I was saying is everyone has so many webinars now, how do you stand out? How do you make it really valuable? I mean, I get, I’m sure you do too, but I get invited to webinars constantly. And there’s some that I’ve sat through that I’m like, yeah, this was absolutely worth this hour. And there’s other where I’m 10 minutes in and you don’t have my attention yet. And I’m a busy lady. – [Chris] Yeah, yeah. – [Shelley] So, so it’s really, really important that the content is as good as, you know, even if it’s, even if it’s not live, but the content really has to draw people in. – [Chris] A hundred percent. So I am, so yeah, you got to lead with the fire. You got to have that fire content. I spoke with somebody and he’s like, our marketing strategy is really simple. We just basically create really, really, really good content. And then we use that content to fuel everything, organic search, paid search, outreach, you know, our BDRs or SDRs, you know, our webinars, like there might be a, a long form webinar and you extrapolate from that like a white paper, you know, and that’s basically this whole strategy and they’re killing it. Like absolutely just killing. Do you guys have- – [Shelley] Content is crucial. I mean, it really is because I can have the most efficient demand gen tactics out there. But if the content is horrible, we’re leaving money on the table. Like we’re just wasting our money. Like it’s just imperative that you have a really robust content strategy. Now, would that be my only strategy? Nope. But I also think that every B2B company has to take what works some places and what doesn’t work and make and apply it to them. – [Chris] Yup. Yup. So there are a hundred things that I want to say right now, but I want to give you a chance to talk about humanization. Cause I tried to use this anonymously with personalization and you like, you’re like, nah, this is different. Tell me about what that means to you and why it’s important. The idea of humanization. – [Shelley] Yeah. I mean, I think personalization has been like a hot topic now for, I don’t know, 5, 6, 10 years at this point. And everyone talks about personalization as- kind of that- I think it’s one step higher than humanization, humanization takes into account that the person is not just part of a buying committee that is B2B. They are a consumer, they are a human being who has other things going on in their life. So, humanization really is focusing on engaging with an audience, truly speaking to them where they are in their journey. And in a way that matters to their experience. So, someone who is, you know, a BI analyst is in a completely different situation than maybe someone who is an IT director. Right? And so you don’t want to just go, I’m personalizing to BI related roles. You actually want to personal-, you want to take it that step down and humanize it into this person in this role, what are kind of the- how do we solve problems for them and how do we provide the right content that really helps them solve those problems and, and speak to them in a way that’s relevant to them specifically, which is a lot more work, right? It’s just a lot more work for marketers, but it’s a better experience for the person you’re trying to reach. And that’s what should matter. It should be actually be about the experience and not your brand. – [Chris] Yeah. A hundred percent. So, I’m curious in terms of the tactical, like how are you guys segmenting and activating that data to like deliver those, those customized messages like do you use CDP or like, how do you know that it’s a BI analyst and they’re there for to show them this instead of that. – [Shelley] So, we have tools that we use, right? We have our own, you know, we have partners in our Mar Tech stack that we use to help. The reality is the great thing about DOMO is that we can use partners and then we can pull things into the DOMO platform and cut and slice things however we need to see them. So, we can look at personas and segments and go, okay, this is the type of things that based on you know, testing and learning, these are the things that we’re engaging with more for this audience versus this audience for this job title versus this job title. And it’s really leveraging that connection of the data. You could have a million tools. – [Chris] Yeah. – [Shelley] And they’re all valuable, you know, but having a place that you know, that you’re going to go to, and that is where you’re going to dig into everything, that’s what, that’s what helps us make our decisions on whether something is, this is the right thing for that audience versus this audience. – [Chris] Yep. And you’re right. It absolutely is a ton more work, but probably it pays off. Do you, have you seen like in your own humanization efforts, big gains or any lift from it? – [Shelley] Yeah. I mean, not going to talk about numbers, but yes, we, we definitely have seen, you know, incredible improvement and incredible growth in our efforts, in our tactics and what refining and optimizing what really works. And even down to areas, you know, you think of like Google search where you can’t really segment, but you can get, you can, you still can get deeper into it by actually looking at when we pull the data into our own systems, actually looking at the segments and how keywords resonate with them and, and adjusting like, you know, from that perspective. So, you know, data can be amazing if you have the right tool to actually see it all come together. – [Chris] Yeah. So is it, is the, is the essence of humanization as you view it; the customization of the content or is it more so making the content like empathetic? – [Shelley] It’s, it’s a little bit of both, but it’s cause I mean, you want to customize the content to that user and their experience and you want the content to solve their problem. So, it’s a little bit of both, right? It’s understanding that every human is different and therefore, every person in every role is different and where they’ve been, you know, looking at the data, if they’ve been on the site and they’re looking at, you know, X, Y, and Z, great. Like we should be- the next piece of content that we should offer them as this piece. So, we’re doing it for them. We’re not going “Okay, Well, everyone who’s in this role is exactly like this person.” So there’s a mix of that. Right? It’s the content. And then how we’re helping solve something for them, that empathy. – [Chris] Thank you very much, Sally. We’ll be in touch. – [Shelley] Yeah. Have a good one. Bye. – [Chris] Bye.
5 minutes | Jul 28, 2021
3MM#13: How to Use Marketing Tactics to Recruit Effectively with Brendan Hurley
Hello everybody, welcome to another episode of Three-Minute Marketing, where we speak with some of the world’s leading growth marketers and condense their wisdom into three-minute golden nuggets. Today we’re talking to Brendan Hurley, Chief of Collaboration, Communication & Marketing at Goodwill of Greater Washington. We discuss a topic that is particularly challenging for marketers and businesses these days: recruiting. Brendan has been having success lately in this critical area for his organization. My question for Brendan is, “What are you doing for recruiting that’s working right now? And what breakthroughs have you had?” ???????????????? Show Notes: When looking for great hires, start with your owned audiences & email list, especially the people who already buy from and/or have affinity to your brand. Start by featuring career opportunities in your regular email newsletter. Roll it out as its own email communication segment once you see success. Tap into the emotional appeals of your position and make the challenge of each role relatable to the audience. Consider offering cash incentives for referrals, both internal and external to your organization. Transcript: – [Chris] Welcome to another episode of Three Minute Marketing. I’m your main man, Chris Mechanic co-founder here at WebMechanix and veteran performance marketer. Three minute marketing is all about talking with some of the leading growth marketing experts and then chunking it down for you into bite-sized easily digestible and crunchy pieces, as our producers like to say. Super excited for the show today, we’ve got Brendan Hurley which is the chief marketing and communications officer at the Goodwill of Greater Washington, D.C. A very impressive individual background at iHeartMedia. I know you’re a iHeartMedia alumn. And you were running some of the largest stations over there winning awards left and right. You’ve been published I know in the Washington Post, the New York Times and some other really reputable things. For innovation specifically I know you’ve been awarded. And then of course you’ve moved over to the non-profit sector, but super excited to have you here today. Welcome. – [Brendan] Thank you, glad to be here. I appreciate the invitation. – [Chris] Absolutely. So we were talking pre-show and we came up with a really good topic that I know a lot of brands are struggling with. It’s not exactly what you would think of in terms of growth-marketing, where you would think, you know e-commerce sales or lead generation or customer acquisition. But it does have a lot of similarities and I know a lot of brands are struggling to recruit right now. There’s a lot of, you know, economic dynamics that contribute to that and we could talk about that. But I know, Brendan, you guys are doing some really impressive things in terms of recruiting for Goodwill of Greater Washington, D.C. Tell us a little bit about what you’re doing, what you’re learning, any breakthroughs that you’ve had thus far, and your time starts now. – [Brendan] Sure, well, while we share a lot of those other challenges that you identified as well, lead generation, demand generation, focusing on retail, e-commerce, our job training programs. We’re busy recruiting for our adult public charter high school. Getting students in for our job training programs. Getting people to train them to re-enter the workforce. The biggest challenge that we have had, and we have really had to make up a pretty heavy shift from a marketing standpoint, is into the recruitment marketing side, specifically for our retail operations. Like many other retailers and businesses that are struggling right now to rebuild their workforce as they come out of the pandemic, when we closed down our stores in March of last year and just started to reopen in June of last year. We struggled to get people to return to work, for a variety of reasons. One, the stimulus packages are to some degree hurting us because people are comfortable staying at home and living off of the money the government is providing them. And there were other people who simply aren’t prepared to come back to work yet, because of health and safety and which is fully justified. So it’s caused some real challenges for us. But we are taking a very aggressive, and I hope an innovative approach to trying to reach potential new team members with a real focus on digital marketing. We’re doing a lot of mobile display. We’re doing a lot of paid search. But where we have found, oddly enough, the strongest return on investment right now isn’t really costing us as much money at all and that is our own retail loyalty club. We have been recruiting from people who are already Goodwill Store shoppers and they have an affinity for Goodwill. They understand Goodwill, they know our mission and so the opportunity to come and work at a Goodwill Store becomes very appealing to them. Imagine if your favorite retail store, suddenly knocking your door if you were looking for and said, “Hey why don’t you come and work for us?” – [Chris] That’s brilliant. I love that. That’s so scrappy recruiting from your own audiences. So how did, how did you operationalize that? – [Brendan] You know, we sent out a series of emails every month to our loyalty club. And as a new feature, typically those newsletters were focused around shopper benefits and information about what’s going on at the, at our Goodwill. But we started to add a new feature that highlights open jobs at Goodwill. And they could be retail jobs, or they can be administrative jobs, wherever our human resource department or our people and culture department wants to focus their efforts and where there’s the greatest need. And what we’ve seen is that a lot of people who have this affinity for Goodwill are applying for those jobs. And so it makes it easier for us, from a hiring perspective. It doesn’t cost us anything. These are people that already understand the organization and its mission and they understand our retail or administrative operations. So it’s paying off and we’re going to continue to focus on that population as a referral source. – [Chris] I love that. Time is up, but I do have some other questions. If you can stay, we’ll include some show notes and, you know, a link to some, some additional footage if Brandon’s able to say, but you may have to jump. Either way that’s awesome, I loved it. Scrappy owned-audience strategy. Everybody’s got an email list, right? I think that’s brilliant, just recruit from your email list. That’s well done, Brendan. Thank you. – [Brendan] Thank you, happy to be here. – [Chris] Hey, real quick, do you want to say anything? Can folks, if they want more information about you or Goodwill greater D.C.? – [Brendan] If anyone wants to know more about Goodwill of greater Washington or our job training programs, or our business operations, or our adult charter high school, they can visit D.C. Goodwill dot org, and everything they need to know is right there. – [Chris] Awesome, thank you. Check it out, guys. Brendan, sign up for his email list and see how they’re doing their recruitment. Sounds like it it’s going well. But I do actually think that that’s brilliant to use that owned-audience, email lists like that. And I’m wondering like, so it sounds like you’ve started doing this, seen some early successes. Are you planning any iterations? Or are you going to like be changing the approach right now? It’s like a feature within a newsletter. – [Brendan] Yeah, so we’re going to be taking a more aggressive approach now. It started out as a feature within the newsletter and now we’re going to be sending out dedicated emails that are completely focused on recruitment efforts. – [Chris] Yeah. – [Brendan] You know, we’ve got a loyalty club of 125,000 shoppers. So, you know, within our region that’s a fairly large number of, you know, a fairly large pool of applicants. And we were surprised, I have to admit. You know when we first went into this, my philosophy was with the newsletters that were going out to our loyalty club. It really needed to be completely focused on the customer benefit. That’s why they joined the newsletter, right? They subscribed to it. It’s why they joined the loyalty club. They wanted something out of it. It had to be a transactional relationship. But the pandemic, of course you know, changed us, changed our way of thinking. And so we had to look at the assets that were available to us and, and rethink how we were going to tap into the populations that we already had a relationship with. And so it forced us to use that population as a referral source. And I have to admit, I was pleasantly surprised by the strong response that we got. Even from the very first communication that we distributed around recruitment efforts. And it’s not only for our business operations, but also for our job training programs. Which if you think about it, makes a lot of sense. Many people who are shopping at Goodwill are people that are shopping because they like to, they want to. They are thrift shoppers. They’re vintage shoppers. They’re, you know, they love the thrill of the hunt. But there were many people who were shopping in our stores, who have to, they’re looking to save every dollar. And so recruiting from that population for our job training programs and for jobs, makes logical sense when you think about it, because many of these people lost their jobs during the pandemic. And they need access to jobs or job training so that they can re-enter the workforce, and support themselves and their family. So, when you think about it logically, it shouldn’t be very surprising. But it wasn’t a natural thought up front because of how we typically think about, you know, communicating with the loyalty club. – [Chris] So I was telling you about this large home service brand that approached us for help with recruiting. One thought that came to mind for them. We’re not actually doing it yet, because we’re just kind of like creating a playbook. But they’re going to do a similar thing amongst their current employees. So they have, you know, thousands probably of employees multiple thousands. And they did a similar thing. Included it within a feature of a newsletter and got, you know, some number of referrals. I think it was in the dozen, you know, couple dozen referrals, which they were really encouraged by. But one of the things that we’re recommending to them is, hey, you know, make it more specific, like give it its own little forum, you know? So it’s not a feature of a newsletter, but rather something else. And then to, charge it emotionally kind of know, like, I don’t want to say the name, but it’s like X-Y-Z company, like we need your help right now, team, you know, like get a little emotional about it. And I think that would really apply in your guys’ world being a mission and a cause-driven organization, you know? So, that’s a couple of thoughts for you. You might do that amongst existing, and they’re of course asking for referrals, not for direct applications. – [Brendan] Yeah, essentially, but you’re absolutely right. Tapping into those heartstrings, I think can really make a difference. When we first closed down our stores, again looking at the loyalty club through a different lens. One of the things we did was go back to them and ask them if they would make financial donations. Because our income stream had dried up, right? And we wanted to try to find a way to supplement the health insurance of the 600 furloughed associates that we had. And so we asked our loyalty club if they’d be willing to make a cash donation. And I was pleasantly surprised that the volume of members who willingly gave to us. And some in very large sums. It was very humbling, to say the least, and that goes back to your point. Which is tapping into that emotion and making the challenge relatable can really have an impact. – [Chris] Yeah. And then are you doing any any incentivizing? Or either applicants or referrals? – [Brendan] Not yet, We haven’t yet. Although that could definitely be on the horizon. We’re doing internal incentives, right? Cash incentives for referrals for our associates. But doing one externally is something that I hadn’t really thought about. That’s an excellent idea. Maybe we should look into that. – [Chris] Do you guys have your own currency? Do you have like Goodwill bucks that you give away, that’s like kind of equivalent to cash? – [Brendan] No, we have a voucher program, but most of those go to other nonprofits who are in need of clothing and shoes for the populations that they serve. We’re actually in the process of making some changes to our loyalty program. Which I think will make it far more valuable to our loyal customers. I’m glad that we’re making these changes, because I think we need to. We do have a point system. Where shoppers, the more frequently they shop, the more points they earn. And then they can get a discount at the end of the month and that resets and. But the new reward, which I can’t really talk about yet, cause we haven’t relaunched it. But it’s going to be, going to provide a substantial discount, a substantial discount on select merchandise for people who are members of the club. I think it will be a real incentive for more people to join. So I’m excited about that. – [Chris] Yeah, yeah that’s interesting. There’s this consultant that I followed named Jay Abraham. He’s all about like non-unconventional growth techniques and ways to use good leverage basically to grow, not toxic leverage. Well, one of the things talks about is, hey create your own currency, right? Cause suppose that I needed $5,000 worth of computer equipment, right? And say that I don’t want to spend 5,000 bucks. I could go up to computer equipment suppliers and say, “hey we’re really good at marketing, right? We’ll provide, you know, marketing services for you guys in exchange for, or we’ll give you this currency, you know, we’ll give you 5,000 bucks of marketing currency that you can use at anytime over the next year. You give us 5,000 bucks worth of computers right now, right? – [Brendan] A barter, yeah. – [Chris] And so sometimes what happens is either A, they won’t come and reclaim it, right? Which is, I mean, unfortunate, but it’s ethical and it happens. Or B, they will come and claim it, and that $5,000 little project might spin into something more, you know. They may become an ongoing client for us, which is great, right? Worse comes to worse, they use it and we, you know, perform some services in exchange for computers, and that’s fine too. So I couldn’t help but to think about something like that for you guys. Like you may be able to incentivize without it actually costing you that much. – [Brendan] Yeah, that’s a really interesting idea. I have to figure out what the benefit would be to the other party, not everybody’s in the market for donated clothing, and shoes and housewares. But, in your mind, where would you see the value being to the other party? – [Chris] Like, free merchandise, you know. Like say that every 10 points is worth a dollar. – [Brendan] Oh, you’re talking to me individually. Okay, I’m sorry, I thought. I was thinking corporate, some kind of corporate partners, yeah. – [Chris] Or, in like a heavy heartstring place where like the mission and the cause is really important, it might even just be public recognition, like in some sort of gamification type of a way. You know, like the way that you treat your largest donors for instance. Like you might put their name on a plaque in some of those stores, or what have you. I’m just kind of free-styling here, you know. I know that this is a lot easier said than done, but. – [Brendan] No, but I liked the idea. I mean, you know, again you’re dealing with retail shoppers, right? The more transactional you can make it, you know, with a mutual benefit, the more likely they’re going to participate. So your mind is in the right place, right? And I’m always open and looking for those types of ways that we can do it, you know. One of the challenges that we face in our Goodwill is that our retail leadership team, while a very bright group of people, their approach to things differs from mine a little bit, in that they start from this space of everything is already discounted, cause it’s donated and it’s already cheap. So why should we discount it further, right? These people are going to shop in the store whether we discount it or not, so I discount it. That’s kind of what their mindset tends to be sometimes. Whereas mine is thinking more in terms of the customer experience, right? So if you continue to reward them, then you’re going to more frequent shoppers, right? And that’s what we want. – [Chris] Okay. – [Brendan] So the average transaction might be a little lower if you give them some sort of a discount, but the frequency of transactions will be higher. So your net is going to be higher, right? That’s the approach that I tend to take. And so we’re in the process right now of trying to find the right balance there and make sure that everybody’s happy. – [Chris] Yeah. – [Brendan] But what I’m starting to see is with the new retail leadership we just hired a new VP of retail operations, and I think that we we tend to be a little bit more on the same page there, so I’m encouraged by that. – [Chris] Yeah, there was another fascinating thing from Jay Abraham that I heard the first time actually the same dude, which was, he at one time worked with a firm that split-tested. Like did multi-variant split-testing in retail environments. So for instance like, they would test 10 different things to say to the customer right when they walked in the door. And so they tested a bunch of stuff and they said that you know. Hey, how can I help you? Hey, are you looking for anything today? Or whatever, but the one that performed best was, which ad brought you into the store today? This was apparently like, you know deals-based kind of retailer. And then in that one moment, they understood exactly what the customer was interested in. And it’s kind of like a non-threatening question. It’s not like, hey, you want to buy something? It’s kind of just curious. – [Chris] Mm-hmm. It’s good news that the new V-P sounds like he’s more on that. – [Brendan] Yeah, yeah, I like that approach.. I’m a big believer in research, market research too. I wish that we had more money for it, because I find it tremendously valuable in helping in the decision making process. – [Chris] Say, thank you so much Brandon. It’s been a pleasure meeting you. – [Brendan] My pleasure, a pleasure meeting you. Take care now.
9 minutes | Jul 21, 2021
3MM#12: How to Build a Marketing Team Effectively with Sheridan Orr
Welcome to the latest episode of Three-Minute Marketing, a podcast where we micro-interview the world’s foremost thought leaders in growth marketing across different disciplines. I’m your host Arsham Mirshah and co-founder of WebMechanix, a performance advertising agency. I’m honored to have a bad-ass growth expert, Sheridan Orr, as our guest today. Sheridan is the CMO […]
5 minutes | Jul 14, 2021
3MM#11: How To Be More Resourceful and Generate More Qualified Pipeline with Rob Gonzalez
Hello everybody, and welcome to another episode of Three Minute Marketing, where we interview some of the world’s leading growth marketing minds and condense it into three-minute value bombs. I’m excited today because we’ve got Rob Gonzalez, co-founder and CMO at Salsify. Salsify is a commerce experience management platform that empowers brand manufacturers to win […]
5 minutes | Jul 7, 2021
3MM#10: How To Pivot Your Marketing Because of an Unexpected Event (or Pandemic) with Graham Cannon
Welcome to another episode of Three Minute Marketing where we interview some of the world’s leading growth marketers across different channels. We really like to talk to unicorn type growth marketers. I’m your man, Chris Mechanic, co-founder at WebMechanix and a veteran, a performance marketer. I am super excited today to have Graham Cannon, the […]
5 minutes | Jun 30, 2021
3MM#9: How to Think About the Relationship Between Brand and Demand Generation with Lisa Sharapata
Welcome to another episode of Three Minute Marketing, where we interview some of the world’s best and brightest growth marketers across different channels. I’m super excited to be joined by Lisa Sharapata, an impressive marketer. She’s currently VP of Marketing at MindTickle, a platform that helps revenue leaders accelerate ramp time and improve performance using data-driven readiness to develop winning sales teams. Before that, she was running best of breed teams at Teradata, Aprimo, and most recently 6sense. My question for her is, “How do you think about the difference between brand and performance in your mind? How did you make the transition from brand to user acquisition? Tell us a little bit about your story and how you came to be the ninja that you are.” ???????????????? Show Notes: Brand is much more than the colors, logo, or font. You have to think about the whole customer experience, including what they say about you when you’re not around and the follow-up process after they purchase to make sure they’re satisfied, continue to buy, and tell others about you. Often, changing the font or the picture isn’t going to fix the business problem. She likes to think about the business more holistically. You need to know various factors, like who your target audience is and the problem you’re trying to solve. It doesn’t work well if you’re not thinking about the entire experience you’re building and how it affects growth. Transcript: – Hello, everybody. Welcome to another episode of Three Minute Marketing where we interview the world’s leading growth marketing minds in micro, three-minute, value-bomb sessions. We go across the board, folks. We talk search, we talk social, we talk data, we talk copy. We’re growth marketers here and I’m super excited to be joined by Lisa Sharapata today. Lisa Sharapata’s a very impressive individual. She’s currently VP of Marketing at MindTickle, a platform that helps revenue leaders accelerate ramp time and improve performance using data-driven readiness to develop winning sales teams. Before that, she was running best of breed teams at Teradata, Aprimo, and most recently 6sense. I’m super excited to have you here, Lisa, you are the type of unicorn that we love here. Welcome to the show.- Thanks for having me, Chris. I’m excited to be here. – Well you have a really interesting background and now you start on the agency side, really on the graphic design side, and then you kind of reinvented yourself to this acquisition and demand gen leader but you’ve got this really interesting brand influence too. So you’re sort of the yin and the yang in the world, where, a lot of larger orgs anyway, are separated still between brand and performance. But you have a really interesting way to think of it. So how do you think about the difference between brand and performance in your mind? Or how did they, or maybe you don’t, maybe you think about it in a more holistic way. How do you, how did you make that transit…? Just tell us a little bit about your story and how you came to be the ninja that you are. – I started in the agency world, like you mentioned, and on the creative side of things and really quickly got frustrated because, just looked at this like arts and crafts department, go change this font, I don’t like this color, make this bigger, make this smaller. Can you try this new picture here? And like, well, why? Who’s the target audience? What’s the goal of the piece? What’s the business purpose that you’re trying to achieve? Changing this font is not going to fix that or this picture, whatever. So I really started to get to the kind of the essence of the strategy behind things. And I see it all working together. And in large organizations, you mentioned, that have like a brand team over here and a performance team over here. I mean, I just, I can’t see them thriving. I’d love to see some examples of where they really are because, to me, brand drives demand. And it is the entire experience that you are creating that is your brand. It is not your color palette. It’s not your logo. It’s not your cool pictures. It’s what people say about your company when you’re not there. That’s what you’re going to tell somebody else about who my company is, and what they’re all about, and what your experience was with them. That is really your reputation and your brand. I started really starting to work in house in companies and looking across the entire life cycle of the customer and saying, “What is the problem we’re trying to solve? Where are they in their journey? Are they just starting to do research? Are they further along comparing companies? And how do we bring them along, right? How do we onboard them?” It’s the entire journey. I want to be able to understand what buying stage they’re in in the upfront and offer value each step of the way. Once they’re a customer, I want them to have a great experience onboarding. I want them to feel like the love, right? I want to send a welcome kit. I want to make sure that their first couple quarters they’re hitting their objectives. And then I want to be able to talk to them, and do a success story with them, and feature them and highlight them, and have them become champions for my brand. I have not seen it work well if you’re not thinking holistically, and you’re not thinking about the entire experience you’re creating and how that’s all going to come together to drive growth. – Lisa, thank you very much. This was super insightful. I love what you guys are doing at MindTickle. Let the audience know where they can find you if they want to learn more about you or MindTickle. – Yeah, you can find me on LinkedIn. So Lisa Sharapata. You can backslash Lisa Sharapata on LinkedIn and then our company’s mindtickle.com, all one word. So pretty easy to find me.
6 minutes | Jun 23, 2021
3MM#8: The Biggest Opportunity for Spreadsheet Marketers with Rico Andrade
Welcome to another episode of Three Minute Marketing, where we interview some of the world’s best and brightest growth marketers across different channels. Today, I’m super excited to have Rico Andrade from Celigo, a really cool integration platform as a service (iPaaS). Rico is optimistic that this platform will one day become a household name. […]
5 minutes | Jun 16, 2021
3MM#7: Secrets of Growing Globally From the Best Brands with Jaime Punishill
Welcome to another episode of Three Minute Marketing, where we interview some of the world’s best and brightest growth marketers across different channels where revenue and growth is the true North. Today, I’m excited to welcome Jaime Punishill, the CMO of Lionbridge, a leading translation and localization platform. I’d love to talk to him for […]
6 minutes | Jun 9, 2021
3MM#6: Top 7 Rules for Sales and Marketing Growth with Tim Schmidt
Welcome to another episode of Three Minute Marketing, where we talk to some of the leading growth marketing experts from around the world and condense our discussions into three-minute micro-interviews. We’re super excited about marketing in today’s world—now’s a great time to be a marketer. And we’ve got a really exciting guest for you today: […]
5 minutes | Jun 2, 2021
3MM#5: How B2B Companies Can Use Intent Data More Effectively with Casey Carey
Welcome to another episode of Three Minute Marketing, where we interview some of the world’s best and brightest growth marketers, usually across different channels. I’m super excited today to have Casey Carey here with us. Casey is the CMO of Kazoo HR, a disruptive HR and recruiting platform. Before, in his previous lifetime, he had […]
6 minutes | May 26, 2021
3MM#4: How To Steal Ideas From Other Industries to Reinvent Your Marketing with Casey Armstrong
Welcome to another episode of Three Minute Marketing, where we interview some of the world’s leading experts in growth marketing. We talk about search, social media, and analytics and bring it all together in crystallized, three-minute, value-bomb, interview-style pieces. I’m Chris Mechanic, your co-host. Here with me today is Casey Armstrong, whom I’m super excited […]
5 minutes | May 19, 2021
3MM#3: How Marketers Can Use Curiosity to Gain an Advantage with Stephanie Moritz
Hello everybody, and welcome to another episode of Three Minute Marketing, where we interview some of the world’s leading growth marketing minds and condense it into three-minute value bombs. Today, I’m super excited because we have Stephanie Moritz, currently the Chief Marketing Officer at the American Dental Association. She has had a long career in […]
Terms of Service
Do Not Sell My Personal Information
© Stitcher 2021