40 minutes | May 22, 2023
Avery Quinn - Can You Quantify the Impact?
Robby has a chat with Senior Software Engineer, Avery Quinn. Avery was previously a Senior Software Engineer at Remotion. Avery starts by sharing that she finds well-maintained software to have cohesive modules, be singularly responsible in its functions, and have just a general level of refinement over time. They will dive into the benefits of having a skeleton project that you can experiment with when weighing up different dependencies, tips for onboarding engineers to your teams, things to consider when building desktop applications, what it is like to work as a consultant, and later at a product company, the software product that Remotion is building for remote software engineers, why measuring velocity on a team can be a useful metric to track, and how her recent employer tracks and prioritizes technical debt work. Avery will also share advice for those who are struggling to get buy-in to prioritize technical debt work. Stay tuned for more!Book Recommendations: Just Enough Software Architecture By George Fairbanks Helpful Links: https://remotion.com/blog/refactoring-legacy-systems Subscribe to Maintainable on: Apple Podcasts Overcast Spotify Or search "Maintainable" wherever you stream your podcasts. Keep up to date with the Maintainable Podcast by joining the newsletter.
50 minutes | Apr 24, 2023
Carlos Blé - Código Sostenible
Robby has a chat with Carlos Blé, the CEO of Lean Mind, an organization focused on boosting the growth of developers and teams. Carlos is a software crafter, entrepreneur, mentor, speaker, podcaster, blogger, and author of several tech books in Spanish (Diseño Ágil con TDD and Código Sostenible). He is also the Founder of Savvily, a publisher specializing in tech books. Carlos will start off by sharing the four important traits of well-maintained software and examples of what maintainable tests are. He will dive into the benefits of mutation testing and exploratory testing, why engineers should advocate for a TECHNICAL_DEBT.md file in their git repository, why software engineers should aim to reduce the technical burden for their product team, services that Lean Mind offers, his latest book, Código Sostenible, and how to be a good guest in another team's codebase. Stay tuned for that and so much more!Book Recommendations: Nonviolent Communication by Marshall Rosenberg Helpful Links: Carlos on LinkedIn Carlos on Github Carlos on Twitter His Website https://leanmind.es/ Subscribe to Maintainable on: Apple Podcasts Overcast Spotify Or search "Maintainable" wherever you stream your podcasts. Keep up to date with the Maintainable Podcast by joining the newsletter.
56 minutes | Apr 17, 2023
Lena Reinhard - How Will People Get Stuff Done?
Robby has a chat with Executive and Leadership Coach, Lena Reinhard (she/her/hers). Lena is a speaker, writer, and Founder of Lena Reinhard Leadership Coaching and Consulting. Previously, Lena served as the VP of Engineering with CircleCI and TravisCI, as well as the startup Founder and CEO of The Neighbourhoodie Software GmbH. From Lena’s perspective, well-maintained software is supposed to serve a business’s goals and continuously improve not just reactively. She highlights the importance of organizations investing in their engineering team's skills. Lena will also talk about software as a team sport, strategies for managing technical debt, how technical debt is a loaded term, challenges teams have faced with micro-services, and what engineers might be encountering after teammates have been laid off. Tune in for that and so much more.Book Recommendations: Into The Planet by Jill Heinerth Helpful Links: The lettuce pact 🥬 https://twitter.com/lrnrd https://www.linkedin.com/in/lenareinhard/ Subscribe to Maintainable on: Apple Podcasts Overcast Spotify Or search "Maintainable" wherever you stream your podcasts. Keep up to date with the Maintainable Podcast by joining the newsletter.
47 minutes | Mar 13, 2023
Eric Normand - Grokking Simplicity
Robby has a chat with software engineer, trainer, and author of the book Grokking Simplicity, Eric Normand (he/him/his). As Eric reflects on his experience, the first thought he has of well-maintained software is that it’s like a unicorn (Something you can’t find in real life), but on a more serious note, he emphasizes that smaller code bases are easier to maintain and that the maintainability of a code base is also highly dependent on the team of engineers that are working on it. Robby and Eric will dive into the pros and cons of microservices in small organizations, why teams need to ensure they know where they're going with the future of their codebase, Eric's book - Grokking Simplicity, the differences within a functional programming language, higher-order functions, Eric’s journey toward authoring a technical book, and the value of engineers being able to get comfortable moving code around in a project without needing to ask for permission first. Tune in and enjoy!Book Recommendations: Book Recommendation: The Timeless Way of Building by Christopher W. Alexander> Helpful Links: Grokking Simplicity By Eric Normand, Manning Eric's Website Eric on LinkedIn Eric on Twitter Subscribe to Maintainable on: Apple Podcasts Overcast Spotify Or search "Maintainable" wherever you stream your podcasts. Keep up to date with the Maintainable Podcast by joining the newsletter.
43 minutes | Mar 6, 2023
Henrik Warne - There is No Software Maintenance
Robby has a chat with Henrik Warne (he/him/his), the Senior Software Engineer at Talos. In Henrik’s view of well-maintained software, he talks about the importance of code having structure early on because, without structure, code tends to inevitably drift over time toward complexity. He highlights the importance of engineers being able to not only read code when they join a project but also be able to run the code and test it. Henrik will share the details of his blog titled, "There is No Software Maintenance," where he argues that software maintenance is simply software development, and how software is better seen as a product versus a project. He will talk about why all software engineers should spend a portion of their time working on bugs, tactics engineers can use to reflect on and capture their thoughts after fixing a bug, and strategies for teams to improve software and avoid rot. Stay tuned for more and enjoy.Book Recommendations: How to Win Friends & Influence People by Dale Carnegie Helpful Links: There is No Software Maintenance By Henrik Warne Henrik's Blog Henrik on Twitter Henrik on LinkedIn Subscribe to Maintainable on: Apple Podcasts Overcast Spotify Or search "Maintainable" wherever you stream your podcasts. Keep up to date with the Maintainable Podcast by joining the newsletter.
50 minutes | Feb 6, 2023
Andy Croll - Keep the Weird Stuff Weird
Robby has a chat with Andy Croll (he/him/his), the CTO at CoverageBook, a Rubyist, the Organizer of the Brighton Ruby Conference, an author, speaker, and bootstrapper. The most important thing when it comes to the maintainability of software is “That code is read much more than it’s written”, Andy says. He insists that the core focus should always be on readability. Andy will dive into the rationale for why weird things in our code should stay weird until we find a better way to express it and even shared some specific examples within a Ruby on Rails environment. He will share his career journey from the front end into the backend, what prompted him to start the First Ruby Friend project to connect newcomers to a community with people who want to be mentors, examples of how to manage technical debt in a small team and why it's okay to let some stuff "sit in the air", and so much more. Stay tuned. It’s going to be an epic one.Book Recommendations: The Overstory by Richard Powers Helpful Links: Andy's website One Ruby Thing Brighton Ruby First Ruby Friend Subscribe to Maintainable on: Apple Podcasts Overcast Spotify Or search "Maintainable" wherever you stream your podcasts. Join the discussion in the Maintainable Discord Community
62 minutes | Jan 16, 2023
Marianne Bellotti - Building Empathy by Asking, "How Would You Write This in 2007?"
Robby has a chat with Marianne Bellotti (she/her/hers), the Engineering Manager at Rebellion Defense. Marianne is the author of the books, “Hiring Engineers” and “Kill it with Fire”. She talks about the maintainability of software being about whether software can be changed and how easily changes can be made to it. She dives into her experience with legacy modernization and talks about how to effectively judge software. Marianne also shares her insights on the challenges teams face when people don't understand how older code works, the value of developing a plan around tests to naturally build confidence within an organization, why it's important to have a safe space to break things (e.g., staging/QA environments), how onboarding metrics can be difficult to compare when dealing with regulatory systems, and building empathy toward previous engineers on a project. Tune in for that and a whole lot more in this value-packed 61-minute episode.Book Recommendations: Drift into Failure: From Hunting Broken Components to Understanding Complex Systems by Sidney Dekker Helpful Links: Kill it with Fire: Manage Aging Computer Systems (and Future Proof Modern Ones) by Marianne Bellotti Website - bellotti.tech https://github.com/mbellotti Twitter - twitter.com/bellmar Subscribe to Maintainable on: Apple Podcasts Overcast Spotify Or search "Maintainable" wherever you stream your podcasts. Join the discussion in the Maintainable Discord Community
52 minutes | Dec 26, 2022
Arpit Mohan - Aspiring To Be Boring As Possible
Robby has a chat with Arpit Mohan, the Co-Founder and CTO of Appsmith, an open-source low-code tool that helps developers build dashboards and admin panels very quickly. Appsmith helps businesses build any custom internal application within hours. In regard to well-maintained software, Arpit points to the importance of engineers writing code for humans and not machines while also focusing a lot on readability. He believes useful code comments are also very crucial in facilitating well-maintained software. Arpit will share his wisdom on the importance of conveying the why over the how behind any code being developed, how open source and closed source projects have different code commenting/documentation needs, why engineers should always keep an eye out for code smells and friction in their ability to deliver software functionality, the problems that AppSmit helps organizations solve, the differences between B2C vs B2B when it comes to the benefits of automated testing, performance concerns, etc, and much much more. Stay tuned, enjoy, and if you like the episode, don’t forget to share.Book Recommendations: The Score Takes Care of Itself: My Philosophy of Leadership by Bill Walsh - https://www.amazon.com/Score-Takes-Care-Itself-Philosophy/dp/1591843472 Helpful Links: https://twitter.com/mohanarpit https://twitter.com/theappsmith https://www.appsmith.com/ Subscribe to Maintainable on: Apple Podcasts Overcast Spotify Or search "Maintainable" wherever you stream your podcasts. Join the discussion in the Maintainable Discord Community
59 minutes | Dec 19, 2022
Noah Clark - Maintainable Software is a Team Sport
Robby has a chat with Noah Clark, a consulting applications developer at Merchants Bonding Company, one the top 15 largest surety writers in the United States. On the top of Noah’s list of things that facilitate the maintainability of software is team dynamics. Well-maintained software can never be achieved by a single individual refactoring code or having grand ideas/visions. It’s made possible by a team coming together and committing to a practice of well-maintained software. He highlights trust and communication between a team and the company they’re developing software for as key. He also advises engineers to avoid writing code just to solve problems. Tune in as Robby and Noah discuss why engineers should ensure that their software code leans on the business domain especially when it comes to naming things, how teams can determine when it’s necessary to refactor and/or improve existing software, the complexities that come with basing software development projects on best practices, why and how to avoid blog post driven development, why referring to "organizational debt" might be more effective than "technical debt", and so much more. Enjoy!Book Recommendations: The 5 Love Languages by Gary Chapman - https://5lovelanguages.com/ I Will Teach You to Be Rich by Ramit Sethi - https://www.iwillteachyoutoberich.com/ Helpful Links: https://www.linkedin.com/in/noahmclark/ https://twitter.com/nolarknoah Subscribe to Maintainable on: Apple Podcasts Overcast Spotify Or search "Maintainable" wherever you stream your podcasts. Join the discussion in the Maintainable Discord Community
61 minutes | Nov 7, 2022
Ben Parisot - Documentation Just Needs To Be Used Once
Robby has a chat with the Engineering Manager at Planet Argon, Ben Parisot. Ben has worked in the tech industry since 2010 and has worn many, many hats: blogger, web designer, web developer, technical producer, scrum master, technical project manager, copywriter, and more. He loves all parts of the software development lifecycle and always has a creative personal web or mobile app humming along outside of work. The first thing Ben says he looks for that represents well-maintained software is thorough and up-to-date documentation. He feels that every developer or project manager must ensure that they leave a good paper trail of the work they do. He encourages engineering teams to do regular documentation audits of internal and external documentation they use in order to find outdated and obsolete documentation. Drawing from his experience working on multiple client projects, his advice is to build processes around auditing and improving documentation to make sure it's effective. This convo will prove incredibly valuable as he shares some tips on how engineering teams can go about that based on the projects they work on and so much more. Don’t miss out!Book Recommendations: Sapiens: A Brief History of Humankind by Yuval Noah Harari Helpful Links https://www.linkedin.com/in/benparisot/ https://www.planetargon.com/about/ben-parisot Subscribe to Maintainable on: Apple Podcasts Overcast Spotify Or search "Maintainable" wherever you stream your podcasts. Join the discussion in the Maintainable Discord Community
41 minutes | Oct 17, 2022
Stefanni Brasil - When Is Tackling Tech Debt Possible?
Robby has a chat with Stefanni Brasil, the Co-founder and Educator at hexdevs, Co-creator of the Get to Senior online course and community, and most recently joined thoughtbot as a developer. Reflecting on her experience in the industry, Stefanni says that well-maintained software can only be a result of teams agreeing on conventions before coding starts. She feels that the term technical debt facilitates better communication and her perspective around it has shifted over time due to the fact that most projects that have employed it are the ones that have been generating revenue. Stefanni notes that software engineering teams can work seamlessly when they document their decisions (on Trello, Google Docs, etc) for future reference. Creating an environment where every team member feels safe and comfortable to speak up about any issues also contributes to project success. Steffani will also share her knowledgeable insights on how to be a good guest in another team's codebase as a consultant and the steps to take when onboarding with a new client project. She will dive into her Get to Senior course and highlight all the value that it offers. Tune in for more of her software engineering wisdom.Book Recommendations: The Assertiveness Workbook: How to Express Your Ideas and Stand Up for Yourself at Work and in Relationships by Randy J. Paterson Helpful Links Fearless Change: Patterns for Introducing New Ideas https://twitter.com/stefannibrasil https://www.stefannibrasil.me/ https://academy.hexdevs.com/ Subscribe to Maintainable on: Apple Podcasts Overcast Spotify Or search "Maintainable" wherever you stream your podcasts. Join the discussion in the Maintainable Discord Community
55 minutes | Oct 10, 2022
Andrea Goulet - Empathy-Driven Software Development
Robby has a chat with Andrea Goulet, the CEO of Corgibytes, a software development shop dedicated to maintaining and modernizing software applications. Named by LinkedIn as one of the top ten professionals in software under 35, Andrea is the host of the podcast Legacy Code Rocks, is the author of the forthcoming book, “Empathy-Driven Software Development”, has co-founded several successful technology companies, and has taught over 50,000 students how to turn soft skills like empathy and communication into software skills. Through her newest venture, Heartware.dev, she is on a mission to operationalize empathy for tech teams and keynotes frequently about building a business based on balance, empathy, and trust; the perils of the technical/non-technical divide; and the technical philosophies around working with legacy code. Andrea says that the maintainability of software comes down to trust and while she doesn't find the term technical debt useful, she uses it in instances where it’s being widely used especially in software remodeling projects. From her experience, the term is not useful at all when dealing with business-minded people who view debt differently. She points out that the success of a project is always highly dependent on the project owner and the team working on their project having shared goals as they approach the writing of software. Robby and Andrea will also dive into why we should avoid deferring to other people and defaulting to being ticket takers, how empathy has different definitions, avoiding us vs them thinking, and so much more. Stay tuned and enjoy!Book Recommendations: Set Boundaries, Find Peace: A Guide to Reclaiming Yourself by Nedra Glover Tawwab Helpful Links https://twitter.com/andreagoulet https://heartware.dev https://corgibytes.com Coming in 2023! Empathy-Driven Software Development by Andrea Goulet Subscribe to Maintainable on: Apple Podcasts Overcast Spotify Or search "Maintainable" wherever you stream your podcasts. Join the discussion in the Maintainable Discord Community
49 minutes | Sep 19, 2022
John Ousterhout - It's Not You, It's the Codebase
Robby has a chat with Professor of Computer Science at Stanford University, John Ousterhout. John founded Electric Cloud with John Graham-Cumming. Ousterhout was a professor of computer science at the University of California, Berkeley where he created the Tcl scripting language and the Tk platform-independent widget toolkit and proposed the idea of co-scheduling. Ousterhout led the research group that designed the experimental Sprite operating system and the first log-structured file system. Ousterhout also led the team that developed the Magic VLSI computer-aided design (CAD) program. When it comes to the maintainability of software, John is more interested in the design aspects of software and feels that indeed the core goal of good software design is to make it easier to maintain software and continually improve it. He explains what problem decomposition is all about and why his course on the art of software design is probably the only one of its kind in the world. Join the convo as he also talks about how to write good code comments and why they are so important, the main differences between tactical and strategic programming, how engineers can discuss long-term improvements with their boss, how his curriculum has students approach a project with two different designs before deciding which to proceed with, and so much more. Enjoy!Book Recommendations: Talent is Overrated By Geoff Colvin Helpful Links A Philosophy of Software Design By Professor John Ousterhout Tcl/Tk John on Twitter John’s Webpage Subscribe to Maintainable on: Apple Podcasts Overcast Spotify Or search "Maintainable" wherever you stream your podcasts. Join the discussion in the Maintainable Discord Community
48 minutes | Sep 12, 2022
Courtney Wilburn - Maintainable Software Has Good Community Around It
Robby has a chat with Courtney Wilburn (She/Her/Hers), the Sr. Engineering Manager at Elastic Cloud, the leading platform for search-powered solutions. She is an experienced DevOps Engineer, speaker, and writer. With solutions in enterprise search, observability, and security, Elastic helps enhance customer and employee search experiences, keep mission-critical applications running smoothly, and protect against cyber threats. For Courtney, well-maintained software is all about software having a good community around it that is enthusiastic about its long-term success. She shares her expertise on the traits of excellent documentation and talks about how engineers should go about joining a software team. Courtney uses the metaphor technical debt and she will graciously break down how her team discusses, prioritizes, and documents what and when they focus on it. She also talks about the challenges that come with process debt, how to go about hiring junior-level engineers, and what we can do to foster mentorship in our teams. It’s going to be a very interesting conversation so don’t miss out.Book Recommendations: Emergent Strategy: Shaping Change, Changing Worlds By Adrienne Maree Brown Helpful Links Courtney on Twitter Courney’s Website Courtney on LinkedIn Subscribe to Maintainable on: Apple Podcasts Overcast Spotify Or search "Maintainable" wherever you stream your podcasts. Join the discussion in the Maintainable Discord Community
38 minutes | Sep 5, 2022
Nelida Velazquez - We Have to Express Our Opinions
Robby has a chat with Nelida Velazquez, a Senior Software Engineer at Cobalt Labs, a company that modernizes traditional pentesting through their Pentest as a Service (PtaaS) platform. By combining a SaaS platform with an exclusive community of testers, they deliver the real-time insights teams need to remediate risk quickly and innovate securely. Nelida highlights documentation, testing, and consistency as the three things that are critical to ensuring that software is maintainable. She feels that when it comes to best practices versus every individual engineers idea of software maintainability, it boils down to how a team agrees to go about things. She dives further into the basics of team agreements and talks about things an engineer should consider when they're the new person on a team, why engineers should view documentation as part of the deliverables, how to properly address technical debt, meaningful tests, and when to potentially remove tests, and so much more. Tune in on your favorite podcast player and don’t hesitate to send us any of your comments and suggestions.Book Recommendations: Mexican Gothic by Silvia Moreno-Garcia Helpful Links A Philosophy of Software Design By John Ousterhout's Nelida's Blog Nelida on Twitter Nelida on LinkedIn Cobalt Labs Website Subscribe to Maintainable on: Apple Podcasts Overcast Spotify Or search "Maintainable" wherever you stream your podcasts. Join the discussion in the Maintainable Discord Community
45 minutes | Aug 8, 2022
Casey Watts! - Culturesmithing
Robby has a chat with Casey Watts!, the Founder at Happy and Effective and the author of Debugging Your Brain. Their conversation begins with Casey calling out engineers who go about the maintainability of their software by just cleaning stuff up instinctually instead of having a deliberately prioritized engineering backlog. He talks about the importance of team leaders giving engineers leeway to choose when to explore and try things, and even take some free time. That enables the engineers to feel more autonomous and have more ownership. Casey also shares strategies for managing technical debt and how teams can invest in moving faster. And on the topic of team culture, he will dig into the concept of culturesmithing and talk about the five levers that can be used to make changes happen, for example, in engineering and prioritization of backlogs. You will get to learn about the service engagements that Happy and Effective offers and gain so much more value in this candid 44-minute conversation that Robby and Casey had. Stay tuned for more.Book Recommendations: Storytelling with Data by Cole Nussbaumer Knaflic Helpful Links Culturesmithing @ RailsConf 2022 Coursera: Human-Centered Design: an Introduction Casey on Twitter Happy and Effective Empathy in Tech Debugging Your Brain Subscribe to Maintainable on: Apple Podcasts Overcast Spotify Or search "Maintainable" wherever you stream your podcasts. Join the discussion in the Maintainable Discord Community
30 minutes | Aug 1, 2022
Marc Cornellà - Maintaining Open Source Projects
Robby has a chat with Marc Cornellà, the official maintainer and major contributor for the Oh My Zsh project. Marc will start off by sharing his wisdom on the characteristics of well-maintained proprietary software. He will also tell us whether the same characteristics apply when it comes to open-source software. Marc started contributing to open-source projects back in 2011 when he worked on a university project that generated schedules for new students. In 2015, he transitioned to Oh My Zsh, which has been the biggest project he’s ever worked on. Oh My Zsh is a framework for Z Shell that allows engineers to install and use different themes that one can personalize according to the look and feel of their terminal. It has 200+ plugins and about 100 themes. It not only allows one to use plugins and themes from other projects, but also offers thousands of helpful functions, helpers, and so much more. The great thing about Oh My Zsh is that an engineer doesn't have to be an advanced hacker to use it. Marc will among many other things share strategies that can be used to help organize and prioritize a popular project that has a consistent 400 to 500 open pull requests from people across the planet, and some future ideas for Oh My Zsh. You won’t wanna miss this one. Enjoy!Book Recommendations: Parable of the Sower by Octavia E. Butler Helpful Links Marc on Twitter Marc on GitHub Oh My Zsh Oh My Zsh on GitHub Subscribe to Maintainable on: Apple Podcasts Overcast Spotify Or search "Maintainable" wherever you stream your podcasts. Join the discussion in the Maintainable Discord Community
43 minutes | Jul 4, 2022
Shanea Leven - How To Bring Visibility To Your Codebase
Robby has a chat with the CEO and Co-Founder of CodeSee, Shanea Leven. The conversation starts with Shanea’s insights on the relatively unknown shift left movement which, from her own hands-on experience, has been a very great way for engineers to write maintainable and resilient code. The shift left movement emphasizes on moving, understanding, and visualizing code while moving everything closer to development when one is writing their code instead of waiting until things are in production. That has proven to be very helpful as codebases increase in size and complexity because it enables engineers to catch things before they write their code. Shanea talks about the importance of code visibility (Being able to visually summarize how your code is working at every step of the development process before production) and how to go about it. She shares how the code visibility movement is helping engineers overcome the challenges they face when they go into legacy codebases to try and refactor them and get them back to their clients in a way that the clients can be able to maintain them. Tune in as Robby and Shanea dive into a lot more juicy topics around managing documentation, how CodeSee offers great value to engineers, tech debt, spatial reasoning, and much more.Book Recommendations: Crucial Conversations Helpful Links Codesee Codesee Learn Open Source Hub Blog post discussing spatial reasoning Talk including discussion on spatial reasoning Subscribe to Maintainable on: Apple Podcasts Overcast Spotify Or search "Maintainable" wherever you stream your podcasts. Join the discussion in the Maintainable Discord Community
45 minutes | Jun 27, 2022
Greg Foster - A Pattern for Smaller, Faster, and Frequent Code Reviews
Robby has a chat with Greg Foster, the Co-founder and CTO of Graphite, an open-source CLI and code review dashboard built for engineers who want to write and review smaller pull requests, stay unblocked, and ship faster. Based on his tons of infrastructure engineering, he highlights getting modules and interfaces right as one of the ways to create clean maintainable software. They cover a variety of topics including a technical introduction to Graphite’s tooling, the challenges that come with SOAs versus monolithics especially for small teams, why monorepos might be a better approach for your software team's workflow, types of metrics a team should track, and how can we, as software developers, help the product team understand the value of investing time in maintenance tasks to keep output optimal. Stay tuned for more!Book Recommendations: A Philosophy of Software Design By John Ousterhout The Mom Test by Rob Fitzpatrick Helpful Links Greg on LinkedIn Greg on Twitter Graphite Website Subscribe to Maintainable on: Apple Podcasts Overcast Spotify Or search "Maintainable" wherever you stream your podcasts. Join the discussion in the Maintainable Discord Community
39 minutes | Jun 13, 2022
Urban Hafner - Management Isn't For Everyone
Robby has a chat with Urban Hafner, a Senior Software Developer at Risk Methods. The episode starts off on a high note with Urban explaining that maintainable software is all about time being spent on looking after one’s code base. While it doesn’t guarantee that a code base will be perfect all the time, Urban insists that it makes things better than when an engineer just develops new features and leaves everything else the same. That ends up causing huge messes that are an uphill task to clean up. From his years of experience, he also shares how team attrition negatively affects the maintainability of a code base, the challenges that startups face when the original agency and/or developers depart from their software projects, the importance of measuring your progress on maintenance work to keep the momentum up, and a lot more of his wealth of engineering wisdom. The experience he had going from a software engineer to an engineering manager, only to realize that he wasn't a good manager, and then navigating back into an individual contributor role will make for a very interesting story. So don’t miss out. See you on the inside!Book Recommendations: Teixcalaan Series by Arkady Martine Helpful Links Urban on Twitter Expanding Beyond Podcast Subscribe to Maintainable on: Apple Podcasts Overcast Spotify Or search "Maintainable" wherever you stream your podcasts. Join the discussion in the Maintainable Discord Community