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Welcome to the Latter-day Saint Perspectives Podcast. I’m your host Laura Harris Hales. I created this podcast over four and a half years ago. As I prepare to shutter the production, I am going to follow the example of fellow podcaster Nick Galieti and post an introductory episode explaining how this podcast got started, what I hoped to accomplish, and what you can expect as you listen. The story of this podcast began in June 2016. After co-authoring the book, Joseph Smith’s Polygamy: Toward a Better Understanding and the website josephsmithspolygamy.org, my husband and I were asked to speak at a conference held in Sweden. After our presentation, I was approached by a local member, who mentioned he was grateful my husband and I as well as other conference presenters traveled so far to visit with the Swedish members. “We don’t have many options when we want to learn about church history,” he said. “Many of the books published in the United States are difficult to get ahold of here,” he continued. “So we are left with only listening to podcasts from antagonistic sources or devotional ones. There is no middle ground.” Then, he looked into my eyes and asked, “Can you help us? Can you give us a podcast that gives us an alternative?” I was fresh off my experience with compiling and editing, A Reason for Faith: Navigating LDS History and Doctrine. It had been such a positive experience where all of the pieces seemed to fall naturally into place. So when I returned to the US, I approached this new project with the same fearless gusto. Latter-day Saint Perspectives would interview respected LDS scholars about church history, doctrine, and culture from a faithful perspective. With new audio equipment and a quivering voice, I taped my first interview with Thomas Wayment, which aired on September 19, 2016. Our topic was the Historical Jesus. It was rough and awkward, but to my great surprise and delight listeners tuned in. Million of worldwide downloads later, it is with a appreciative heart that I say goodbye to this project. I am thankful for the man who had the courage to approach me with his request, grateful to the guest podcasters who also shared my vision, indebted to the many outlets among them Meridian Magazine, the Mormon Interpreter, and LDS Living that reposted my material, and forever beholden to the scholars who volunteered to share their knowledge gained from years of study. When I started this podcast, I hoped to present the most recent academic scholarship to a general audience from a faithful but not necessarily devotional perspective. I also hoped to take a deeper dive into Latter-day Saint topics than listeners could typically find in Sunday School discussions. Through the years, Latter-day Saint Perspectives has done just that. We have interviewed noted scholars about recent works as well as older but influential publications. I invite those new to the podcast to check out our complete catalog on their favorite podcast application or at Latter-day Saint Perspectives.com. On the website, you can locate additional episodes on similar topics as well as check out a new feature. While we will not be regularly releasing new episodes (I hesitate to say never here), our newly designed website contains a new feature. Periodically, I will be posting bite-sized blogs about books, podcasts, and video features that promote the best in Latter-day Saint scholarship. If this is something that interests you, then subscribe at latter-daysaintperspectives.com. I have been the most unlikely of podcast hosts. Not only do I suffer from more social anxiety than average but also my vocal talents are limited. What I do have is a lot of questions. Fortunately, I was able to spend hours with scholars who have become my friends and have answered some of them. Thanks, listeners, for sharing this journey with me. In 2016, there were not a lot of options for those seeking academic enrichment from a faithful perspective, but the landscape has changed over the last several years. Like me, individuals and institutions are doing what they can with their unique talents, gifts, and means to promote understanding and deeper engagement with our religion and faith. As I leave this venue, I know I leave it in good hands. If you feel you have benefited from our show, please consider rating and reviewing this podcast in your podcast platform, so others may continue to find our content for years to come.

The Interview In this episode of Latter-day Saint Perspectives Podcast, Laura Harris Hales interviews R. Eric Smith and Matthew C. Godfrey about Know Brother Joseph: New Perspectives on Joseph Smith’s Life and Character, the new book that they coedited with Matthew J. Grow. The Joseph Smith Papers Project has published thousands of pages of transcripts, introductions, footnotes, and supplemental materials in recent years. The project’s print volumes have sold more than 200,000 copies, and last year alone, the project’s website, josephsmithpapers.org, had more than 650,000 unique visitors. Though the publications are aimed primarily at scholars, these numbers make it clear that Church members are the main consumers. Other recent Church publications, such as Saints: The Story of the Church of Jesus Christ in the Latter Days, have also made information from the Joseph Smith Papers available to many Latter-day Saints. Still, it is undoubtedly the case that the majority of Church members have not spent time in the Joseph Smith Papers. This is certainly understandable, given the scholarly format and the sheer number of pages. Enter Know Brother Joseph, a new collection of short essays on Joseph Smith designed to bridge that gap—to share information from the Joseph Smith Papers and other recent works of scholarship with a general Latter-day Saint audience. The three coeditors, all of whom are general editors of the Joseph Smith Papers, invited more than 40 historians and other scholars who have spent years thinking about the founding prophet to provide insights into his history, teachings, and character attributes. The writers were asked to share historical perspectives in a faith-promoting way, similar to how they might present information in a fireside. Some essayists also chose to discuss how something from Joseph’s experience had personal relevance to them. The result is a collection of brief, informative, inspiring essays that all Latter-day Saints can read and enjoy. Some essayists explore familiar topics but in new ways. For example, writing on the First Vision, Robin Jensen of the Joseph Smith Papers discusses why Joseph might have waited twelve years before first writing down what he had experienced. Kathleen Flake, a professor of Mormon Studies at the University of Virginia, examines how the coming forth of the Book of Mormon and the restoration of priesthood authority solved the “problem” identified in the First Vision, namely, “Where is the power of salvation to be found on earth?” Essays with personal details include those from Eric Smith and Elizabeth Kuehn. After relating episodes showing how Joseph Smith responded to adversity, Eric shares how Joseph’s example has given him strength to bear up against challenges in his own life. Elizabeth, a historian with the Joseph Smith Papers, discusses some of Joseph Smith’s character traits that she has been drawn to. She writes, “Spending the last several years immersed in Joseph’s history has brought him to life for me in ways I would never have imagined. It has made him become someone I feel I know.” That writers selected their own topics allows personal enthusiasm and expertise to shine through. For example, the essay from Scott Hales, lead writer for Saints: The Story of the Church of Jesus Christ in the Latter Days, looks at how Joseph Smith chose to tell his own history. This kind of “meta” analysis—with one writer of history examining another—is a unique way of approaching Joseph Smith. Essayists did not shy away from potentially challenging subjects. Chapters discuss, for example, Joseph’s evolving views on race, an altercation he had with his brother William, a disciplinary council considering a case of physical abuse, Joseph’s teaching about Heavenly Mother, and questions about how the doctrine of eternal sealing might apply within a blended family. The life of Joseph Smith teaches us different lessons as we return to it at different points in our growth, both as a Church collectively and as individuals. Each new generation has different questions and concerns as they read history. Meanwhile, each individual might respond to Joseph’s teachings or events from his life in different ways depending on unique and changing life circumstances. Therefore, even when much has been published about Joseph Smith already, a new collection drawing on recent scholarship provides a new opportunity to come to know him a bit better.   It is the fervent hope of the editors of this collection that the volume will strengthen faith in the restored gospel and increase understanding and admiration for the founding prophet of the dispensation of the fulness of times. Admitting that the essays touch on only a small fraction of all that could be explored, the editors also invite readers to a continuing study of Joseph the man and Joseph the prophet. About Our Guests Matthew C. Godfrey is a general editor and the managing historian of the Joseph Smith Papers. Matthew holds a PhD in American and public history from Washington State University. Before joining the Joseph Smith Papers, he was president of Historical Research Associates, a historical and archeological consulting firm headquartered in Missoula, Montana. He is the author of Religion, Politics, and Sugar: The Mormon Church, the Federal Government, and the Utah-Idaho Sugar Company, 1907–1921 (2007), which was a co-winner of the Mormon History Association’s Smith-Petit Award for Best First Book. R. Eric Smith is a general editor of the Joseph Smith Papers Project and the editorial manager of the Publications Division of the Church History Department, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. He was formerly an editor for the Curriculum Department, and before that he practiced law in Salt Lake City. With Matthew J. Grow, he coedited The Council of Fifty: What the Records Reveal about Mormon History (2017). He received a BA in English from Brigham Young University and a JD from the University of Utah. Extra Resources: Know Brother Joseph: New Perspectives on Joseph Smith’s Life & Character

About the Interview: Celebrating the two hundredth anniversary of the Restoration has proven to be one of the few highlights of 2020 for the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. In commemoration, the First Presidency and Twelve Apostles issued a Bicentennial Proclamation that boldly affirmed beliefs in a restored church, restored priesthood authority (including priesthood keys), restored revelation through living prophets, and a restored fulness of the gospel of Jesus Christ. This declaration affirmed church leaders’ consistent message regarding the importance of past revelations and the Latter-day Saint Church’s future path. President Russell M. Nelson and other apostles have repeatedly reminded members of the church that God’s work of restoration began with Joseph Smith, but it didn’t end with him. We believe in an “ongoing Restoration”—an organic, dynamic process by which God continues to breathe life into both the church and the world not just yesterday but today and tomorrow and always. As Latter-day Saints, we hold it as an article of faith that God has much work yet to do, and many things yet to say, in the gradual unfolding of his kingdom in these modern times. There are indeed many things that needed restoration: the fulness of the gospel, the priesthood, the church, covenants, ordinances, spiritual gifts, and so forth. We call this whole package “the restoration of all things.”[1] But I would suggest that God isn’t concerned with restoring “things,” no matter how important, so much as he is with using those things to restore what matters most. And what is that? Nephi explained that the restoration of the various branches of Israel—the Jews, the scattered tribes, and the remnant of Lehi—would all be accomplished not just for their own sake but as part of something bigger. What could be more significant than the gathering of Israel? The work of salvation, reconciliation, and healing whereby God will “bring about the restoration of his people upon the earth.”[2] In other words, “the restoration of all things” is designed with one grand aim in mind: to restore God’s people—our Father and Mother’s children, their eternal family—to wholeness. Those of us in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints aren’t the only ones called to restore God’s family to wholeness—the work is too big, as 0.2% of the world’s population, to do by ourselves. But we are called to do some very special things. We are called to lives of holiness—that through the gift of the Atonement the title “saint” becomes less aspirational and more actual each day. We are called to extend that holiness beyond our personal lives into our communities, thereby working toward the establishment of God’s social ideal, which we call Zion. We are called to proclaim the name and gospel of Jesus to every corner of the world. We are called to seal together the whole human family, alive and dead, in one great web of mutuality. But if we are to fulfill our mission, we cannot be content with restoring things, no matter how powerfully those things work in our lives and our world. We are called to restore God’s people. We do so in imitation of Jesus, who loves all humanity but whose heart beats in sympathy with the oppressed and marginalized children of God. When he first proclaimed his messiahship, he did so by quoting Isaiah, the great prophet of Israel’s scattering and restoration: The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised.[3] The poor. The brokenhearted. The captives. The blind. The bruised. These are the people to whom the Messiah’s anointing is specially directed. Any restoration we claim to participate in as disciples of Jesus must therefore be primarily oriented toward those who have suffered on the margins of history and currently suffer on the margins of society. Those who are despised, and rejected, scattered, and deemed “filthy.”[4] Refugees and displaced persons. Immigrants. The poor. The homeless. Racial and sexual minorities. Those who suffer from disabilities or mental illness. Victims of physical, sexual, and emotional abuse. It is toward these precious souls that our particular work of restoration must be focused, as we do our small part in bringing about the “restoration of his people upon the earth.” This post has been adapted from Patrick Q. Mason, Restoration: God’s Call to the 21st-Century World (Meridian, ID: Faith Matters Publishing, 2020). About Our Guest: Patrick Mason holds the Leonard J. Arrington Chair of Mormon History and Culture at Utah State University, where he is an associate professor of religious studies and history.  Educated at Brigham Young University and the University of Notre Dame, Mason is a nationally recognized authority on Latter-day Saint history, theology, and culture.  He is the author or editor of several books for both academic and LDS audiences, including Restoration: God’s Call to the 21st-Century World (Faith Matters, 2020); What Is Mormonism? A Student’s Introduction (Routledge, 2017); and Planted: Belief and Belonging in an Age of Doubt (Maxwell Institute/Deseret Book, 2015). Restoration: God’s Call to the 21st Century World [1] Matthew 17:11; Doctrine and Covenants 27:6, 86:10. [2] 2 Nephi 30:8. See also Doctrine and Covenants 84:2. [3] Luke 4:18; see Isaiah 61:1. [4] See Jacob 3:6-9.

The Interview: In this episode of the Latter-day Saint Perspectives Podcast, Laura Harris Hales interviews Mark Ashurst-McGee, co-author of a new in-depth study of the Kinderhook plates saga. It is well-known that Joseph Smith claimed to have translated the Book of Mormon by “the gift and power of God” from a set of golden plates that he found in a stone box buried in a hill near his home. Lesser known is his later translation from a collection of brass plates disinterred from an Indian burial mound near Kinderhook, Illinois, located about seventy miles downstream from Nauvoo. The History of the Church records that Joseph Smith “translated a portion” of these plates and declared that they contained “the history of the person with whom they were found,” who was “a descendant of Ham.” That official narrative dominated the legacy of this second set of plates for over a century. Nevertheless, controversy always swirled around the affair. This recital is a strange episode in early Mormon history, but the history of the interpretation of the story is even more peculiar. Years after the event, two of the men who were present when locals discovered the plates claimed that they made the plates with help from the village blacksmith, inscribed them with characters, planted them in the mound, and then led an unsuspecting group of curious locals to “discover” them as part of a hoax. Rejecting this contention, considering the revelation of a supposed hoax to be the real hoax, Latter-day Saints used the Kinderhook plates for decades as supporting evidence for the validity of the golden plates and their translation into the Book of Mormon. In the late nineteenth century, several publications promoted the testimony of one of the scammers as evidence of the Kinderhook forgery. Critics of Mormonism used this revelation to attack Joseph Smith’s legitimacy as a prophet and an inspired translator. Soon detractors distilled the anti-Mormon argument into a pithy slogan: “Only a bogus prophet translates bogus plates.” In light of the slur, Latter-day Saints doubled down, insisting that the forgery claims were lies, the plates were genuine, and they supported the Book of Mormon and Joseph Smith’s prophetic claims. Despite these confident declarations, Latter-day Saint contentions later proved erroneous. Rigorous scientific testing in 1980 demonstrated conclusively that the plates were modern forgeries rather than pre-Columbian creations. Many wondered how these new findings spoke to Joseph Smith’s purported rendering. Latter-day Saint historian Stanley Kimball problematized any simple resolution to the mystery when he examined the drama further by turning to the contested statement of Joseph Smith regarding the translation. At about the same time scientific evidence confirmed the fraudulent origin of the plates, Church historians discovered the actual source of Joseph Smith’s declaration on the translation as found in the History of the Church. As it turns out, Joseph Smith never wrote that he had translated from the Kinderhook plates. Instead, researchers learned that early Latter-day Saint chroniclers extracted this information from the diary of Joseph Smith’s private secretary, William Clayton. In an article in the Ensign, the official magazine of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, Stanley Kimball revealed the modern fabrication of the Kinderhook plates, but at the same time he revealed the true source of the words attributed to Joseph Smith and argued that William Clayton was wrong when he wrote about Joseph Smith translating from the plates. In this new study, Don Bradley and Mark Ashurst-McGee provide analysis of Clayton’s relationship with Joseph Smith, his diary-keeping practices, and the broader context of the entire journal entry that served as the basis for the statements inserted in the History of the Church. They argue that Clayton knew very well what he was writing about and that Smith did, in fact, translate “a portion” of the Kinderhook plates. In a close examination of the other vital sources related to Smith’s translation attempt, Bradley and Ashurst-McGee contend that Smith’s translation was not a prophetic translation like that of the Book of Mormon. Additionally, there is no evidence that Joseph Smith saw it that way or that he presented it to others in that way. To the contrary, all of the evidence, as they show, indicates that Smith viewed his brief translation effort as a secular translation, that he attempted it while referencing dictionaries, and that he did so in the presence of several members and non-members. Anti-Mormon critics have used the Kinderhook plates episode to attack Smith’s prophetic claims, insisting that “only a bogus prophet translates bogus plates.” On the other hand, Joseph Smith taught, “A prophet is not always a prophet,” and a prophet is a prophet, “only when he is acting as such.” Ashurst-McGee explains that when Joseph Smith attempted to translate the Kinderhook plates, he was not acting as a prophetic translator but rather as a secular translator. Therefore, the translation of the Kinderhook plates speaks to Joseph Smith’s personal study of languages and his confidence in his linguistic abilities rather than a divine calling.  In “President Joseph Has Translated a Portion”: Joseph Smith and the Mistranslation of the Kinderhook Plates,” Don Bradley and Mark Ashurst-McGee lay out the evidence for their conclusions, showing exactly how the mistaken translation took place and how Joseph Smith came up with his interpretation of the plates. About Our Guest: Mark Ashurst-McGee holds a PhD in history from Arizona State University and has trained at the Institute for the Editing of Historical Documents. He is a senior historian in the Church History Department and the Senior Review Editor for the Joseph Smith Papers Project, where he serves as a specialist in document analysis and documentary editing methodology. In addition to co-editing several volumes of the Joseph Smith Papers (Church Historians Press, 2008–), he co-edited Foundational Texts of Mormonism (Oxford University Press, 2018) and Producing Ancient Scripture (University of Utah Press, 2020). Referenced Work: Don Bradley and Mark Ashurst-McGee. “President Joseph Has Translated a Portion”: Joseph Smith and the Mistranslation of the Kinderhook Plates.” In Producing Ancient Scripture: Joseph Smith’s Translation Projects in the Development of Modern Christianity. Edited by Michael Hubbard MacKay, Mark Ashurst-McGee, and Brian M. Hauglid. Salt Lake City: University of Utah Press, 2020. Free Deseret Bookshelf Download or EBook Chapter: “Joseph Smith and the Kinderhook Plates”

About the Interview: Many relationships may be improved simply by practicing good communication skills. In this interview, Emil Harker discusses a program for improving our ability to communicate well in crucial conversations. Over the past 20 years, he has counseled thousands of couples on how to improve their marriages by applying 7 critical skills: Assuming Good Intent Defining and Accepting Reality Communicating with the Desired Outcome in Mind Clear, Direct, and Sensitive Communication Killing Criticisms Fencing Conflict Disarming Landmines Listen as Emil Harker discusses how we can improve our most important relationships. You can receive a free book by here on Emil’s website: emilharker.com. About Our Guest: Emil Harker graduated with a master’s degree in family and marriage therapy in 1999 from Utah State University. He is a popular speaker for public and professional organizations and companies as he teaches his innovative communication and conflict resolution strategies from his book “You Can Turn Conflict into Closeness”: 7 Communication Skills of Successful Marriages. (Free Book)  (Book/Audiobook) (Workbook) Complaining Quick Reference Card Fencing Conflict Quick Reference Card Workbook for 7 Communication Skills Complaining Quick Reference Guide Fencing Conflict Quick Reference Guide

About the Interview: The mayhem of 2020 has brought the Apocalypse to the forefront of many people’s minds, but for Latter-day Saints, this kind of thinking is nothing new. Christopher J. Blythe describes in his new book, Terrible Revolution: Latter-Day Saints and the American Apocalypse, how apocalypticism has presented itself throughout the church’s history. Blythe notes, “Latter-day Saints of the nineteenth century belonged to an apocalyptic tradition. Their very identity was entangled with the belief that society was headed toward cataclysmic events that would uproot the current social order in favor of a divine order that would be established in its place” (p. 8). Nearly 200 years later, that tradition is still alive within Latter-day Saint culture. In this episode, Christopher J. Blythe discusses how end-times narratives have evolved and been perpetuated not only through official Latter-day Saint leadership channels but also folk traditions and lived religion. About Our Guest: Christopher James Blythe is a faculty research associate at the Neal A. Maxwell Institute for Religious Scholarship at Brigham Young University, as well as the coeditor of the Journal of Mormon History. He completed a PhD in American religious history from Florida State University, an MA in history from Utah State University, and BA degrees in religious studies and anthropology from Utah State University and Texas A&M University, respectively. He was a documentary editor at the Joseph Smith Papers between 2015 and 2018. Blythe lives in Springville, Utah, with his wife and three boys. Terrible Revolution: Latter-Day Saints and the American Apocalypse

The Interview: In this episode of the LDS Perspectives Podcast, Laura Harris Hales interviews Mark Ashurst-McGee, a co-editor of a new book, Producing Ancient Scripture: Joseph Smith’s Translation Projects in the Development of Mormon Christianity. The Book of Mormon is well known, but there were several subsequent texts that Joseph Smith translated after the Book of Mormon. This collaborative volume is the first to provide in-depth analysis of each and every one of Joseph Smith’s translation projects. The compiled chapters explore Smith’s translation projects in focused detail and in broad contexts, as well as in comparison with one another. The various contributors approach Smith’s sacred texts historically, textually, linguistically, and literarily to offer a multidisciplinary view. While most of the contributors are Latter-day Saints, not all are. From its inception, the book was meant to be a scholarly work that anyone could read and engage in—whether a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints or from any other branch of the Restoration or any denomination of Christianity or any other faith or no faith. Due to this intentional editorial decision, there is nothing in the book asserting or excluding supernatural involvement. The various translation projects are studied not in terms of the ancient origins they claim for themselves but rather in terms of their translation into English by Joseph Smith in the modern age. Here is a brief overview of the comprehensive coverage provided in the book: A chapter by religious studies scholar Christopher James Blythe examines Joseph Smith’s translation projects broadly within the Christian tradition of spiritual gifts, especially the gifts of speaking in tongues and the interpretation of tongues. A chapter by literary scholar Jared Hickman compares Smith’s teachings about the “translation” of scripture and the “translation” (bodily transfiguration and ascension) of prophets such as Enoch and Elijah, showing how these two types of translation are related. A chapter by historian Michael Hubbard MacKay investigates Joseph Smith’s earliest efforts toward translation, when he transcribed characters from the golden plates and sent a transcript thereof with Martin Harris to have it translated by prominent scholars like Samuel Mitchill and Charles Anthon. A chapter by scholars Amy Easton-Flake and Rachel Cope shows how Emma Hale Smith, Mary Musselman Whitmer, and other women made Joseph Smith’s translation work possible and how they took on the roles of witnesses to the golden plates and their translation. A chapter by scholarly writer Samuel Morris Brown investigates what the Book of Mormon has to say about the method of translation and related forms of scriptural generation. A chapter by religious studies scholar Ann Taves compares Joseph Smith and the “translating” of the Book of Mormon with Helen Schucman and the “scribing” of A Course in Miracles—another long and complex religious text produced within a relatively short period of time. A chapter by historian Richard Lyman Bushman explores how the Book of Mormon has a heightened and unusual awareness of its own construction as a book. It also considers how the early American history and culture of books and bookmaking may have influenced the way people understood this and other translation projects. A chapter by historian and comparative religion scholar Grant Hardy explores the similarities and differences between the Book of Mormon and Joseph Smith’s “thus saith the Lord” genre of commandments and other revelations (like those found in the Doctrine and Covenants), along with giving special attention to the rhetorical effect of the narrative history found in the Book of Mormon. A chapter by scholars David W. Grua and William V. Smith thoroughly investigates the text of the new account of John now found in Doctrine and Covenants 7. A chapter by New Testament scholars Thomas A. Wayment and Haley Wilson-Lemmon presents parallels between Joseph Smith’s “New Translation” of the King James Bible (JST) and an influential Bible Commentary by Methodist scriptorian Adam Clarke. A chapter by historian Gerrit Dirkmaat plumbs the inner logic of Smith’s revelation that he should not carry on his “New Translation” of the Bible to include the Apocrypha. A chapter by New Testament scholar Nicholas J. Frederick examines the extract from the “Record of John” that is embedded in what is now Doctrine and Covenants 93. A chapter by historian David Golding investigates the concept of a pure and primordial language in Smith’s scriptural productions and closely inspects Smith’s circa 1832 document, titled “A Sample of Pure Language,” which consisted of a few words from this pure language as well as their English translations. A chapter by Brian M. Hauglid, a scholar of the ancient near east, examines the early period of Joseph Smith’s translation of the Book of Abraham and compares the resulting text with content in the Egyptian language study documents that Smith and others were producing during the same period. A chapter by Matthew J. Grey, a scholar of Judaism and other ancient Mediterranean religions, examines the influence of the Hebrew language, and Smith’s study of the language, as it is found in the Book of Abraham. Finally, a chapter by historians Don Bradley and Mark Ashurst-McGee investigates Smith’s attempt in 1843 to translate a set of inscribed brass plates that were disinterred from an Indian mound near Kinderhook, Illinois, but were later shown to be modern forgeries planted in the mound as a prank on local Latter-day Saints. About our Guest: Mark Ashurst-McGee is a senior historian in the Church History Department and the senior review editor for the Joseph Smith Papers Project, where he serves as a specialist in document analysis and documentary editing methodology. He is a co-editor of several volumes of the Joseph Smith Papers (Church Historians Press, 2008–), of Foundational Texts of Mormonism (Oxford University Press, 2018), and of this podcast’s featured book, Producing Ancient Scripture (University of Utah Press, 2020). Producing Ancient Scripture: Joseph Smith’s Translation Projects in the Development of Mormon Christianity

This is Laura Harris Hales, and I am pleased to introduce a special series for the Latter-day Saint Perspectives Podcast’s fourth season. We will be highlighting chapters from the much-anticipated volume, Producing Ancient Scripture: Joseph Smith’s Translation Projects in the Development of Mormon Christianity edited by Michael Hubbard MacKay, Mark Ashurst-McGee, and Brian M. Hauglid. In anticipation for our fourth-year launch on September 16, 2020, this is the second interview with a chapter author we will be highlighting. This week’s feature first aired as Episode 51. In this episode, Dr. Matthew J. Grey discusses his research for his chapter, “Approaching Egyptian Papyri through Biblical Language: Joseph Smith’s Use of Hebrew in His Translation of the Book of Abraham.” Be sure to listen through the end credits to hear information about our new show feature “Comments and Questions from Readers,” which provides opportunities for listeners to submit content for future episodes as well as receive gift cards and free books. Upcoming Featured Books: (Deadline for Submission of Questions and Comments): Ancient Scripture: Joseph Smith’s Translation Projects in the Development of Mormon Christianity Michael Hubbard MacKay, Mark Ashurst-McGee, and Brian M. Hauglid, eds. Prophetic Authority: Democratic Hierarchy and Mormon Priesthood by Michael Hubbard MacKay along with “Performing the Translation: Character Transcripts and Joseph Smith’s Earliest Translating Practices” in Ancient Scripture: Joseph Smith’s Translation Projects. Joseph Smith’s Translation: The Words and Worlds of Early Mormonism by Samuel Morris Brown along with “Seeing the Voice of God: The Book of Mormon on Its Own Translation” in Ancient Scripture: Joseph Smith’s Translation Projects. Joseph Smith: History, Methods, and Memory by Ronald O. Barney Suggestions? Email us those as well. Download Transcript Episode 51 Transcript "‘The Word of the Original': Joseph Smith's Study of Hebrew in Kirtland" in Approaching Antiquity “Approaching Egyptian Papyri Through Biblical Language: Joseph Smith’s Use of Hebrew in His Translation of the Book of Abraham”

For the Latter-day Saint Perspectives Podcast’s fourth season, we will be highlighting chapters from the much-anticipated volume, Producing Ancient Scripture: Joseph Smith’s Translation Projects in the Development of Mormon Christianity edited by Michael Hubbard MacKay, Mark Ashurst-McGee, and Brian M. Hauglid. In anticipation for our fourth-year launch on September 16, 2020, we will be rereleasing interviews with chapter authors. This week’s feature first aired as Episode 55. In our discussion, Dr. Thomas A. Wayment covers his research for his chapter “A Recovered Resource: The Use of Adam Clarke’s Bible Commentary in Joseph Smith’s Bible Translation.” Be sure to listen through the end credits to hear information about our new show feature “Comments and Questions from Readers,” which provides opportunities for listeners to submit content for future episodes as well as to receive gift cards and free books. From episode 55: In this episode, Laura Harris Hales visits with Thomas Wayment, Latter-day Saint Perspectives Podcast’s guest on episode one, in part two of our special first anniversary double episode on the Joseph Smith Translation to discuss some impressive findings regarding Joseph Smith’s Bible translation process. Dr. Wayment is currently a professor of Greek at BYU. He earned his BA in Classics from the University of California at Riverside then completed a PhD in New Testament studies at Claremont Graduate University. Known primarily as a New Testament scholar, Dr. Wayment has also written extensively on the Joseph Smith Translation. He became fascinated with the document early in his biblical studies and that interest has never really fizzled. In his recent studies, Wayment found an interesting connection between the JST and a biblical commentary well-known in the 19th-century, especially in Methodist circles. Adam Clarke, a British theologian, took almost 40 years to complete his comprehensive tome, published as The New Testament of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. The text carefully printed from the most correct copies of the present Authorized Version. Including the marginal readings and parallel texts. With a Commentary and Critical Notes.  Clarke’s commentary became a primary theological resource for nearly two centuries. New research by Michael Hubbard Mackay has uncovered a statement indicating that Joseph Smith had access to a copy of Clarke’s Bible commentary. When Wayment compared Joseph’s translation of the KJV Bible to Clarke’s commentary, he realized that Smith used it in the translation process because of the marked similarities he found between entries in the commentary and changes in Joseph’s KJV Bible. Listen in as Dr. Wayment shares what he believes this indicates about how the Prophet viewed the translation process and what it could mean for how we approach the KJV Bible and the JST. Download Transcript Extra Resources: Producing Ancient Scripture

About the Interview: Daniel O. McClellan won the Best Student Paper Award at the 2nd Annual Book of Mormon Studies Association conference for his paper on the linguistic and rhetorical contexts of 2 Nephi 25:23. In his work as a translation coordinator for the Church, he noticed that there were inconsistencies in the translation of this verse that led to misunderstandings. This finding led him to get to the roots of the phrase by studying the historical context of the reading. His research provides persuasive arguments to an interpretation of grace that clears up common misunderstandings of Restoration theology.   In this interview, Laura Harris Hales also discusses “As Far As It Is Translated Correctly” published in the Religious Educator and “The Use of the Old Testament in the New Testament” from Lincoln Blumell’s anthology on the New Testament, which provides valuable contexts and insights into the translation process. About Our Guest: Daniel O. McClellan received his bachelor’s degree from Brigham Young University in ancient Near Eastern studies, where he focused on Biblical Hebrew and minored in Classical Greek. He completed a master of studies in Jewish studies at the University of Oxford in July of 2010 and a master of arts in biblical studies at Trinity Western University just outside of Vancouver, BC. He is currently a PhD candidate at the University of Exeter. His areas of specialization are Second Temple Judaism, early Israelite religion, textual criticism of the Hebrew Bible, and cognitive interpretation of scripture. Disclaimer:    Latter-day Saint Perspectives Podcast is not affiliated with The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. The opinions expressed on this episode represent the views of the guests and the podcaster alone, and Latter-day Saint Perspectives Podcast and its parent organization may or may not agree with them. While the ideas presented may vary from traditional understandings or teachings, they in no way reflect criticism of Latter-day Saint Church leaders, policies, or practices. Extra Resources:  “The Old Testament in the Old Testament” in the New Testament: History, Culture, and Society “As Far as It Is Translated Correctly”: Bible Translation and the Church

About The Interview: In this episode of Latter-day Saint Perspectives, Laura Harris Hales interviews licensed psychologist, Debra Theobald McClendon, PhD. Anxiety is a normal emotion with adaptive functions that provides us with important data. For example, anxiety anticipates future danger and notifies us of risk, prepares us for action, and heightens our senses. These responses help us to focus on what we need to do in particular situations. Anxiety prior to completing a task may be an indication that you need to work to build proficiency to match the demand of the moment, so it has positive benefits on performance at a moderate level.  But as anxiety continues to increase to higher levels, performance proficiency decreases significantly until you shut down and are unable to cope.  Difficulty managing anxiety in a healthy way can severely impair our quality of life.  Neal A.  Maxwell clarified: “There is a difference, therefore, between being ‘anxiously engaged’ and being ‘over-anxious.’” Dr. McClendon indicates that although anxiety is normal, more serious problems develop when anxiety feels chronic, unmanageable, overwhelming, and/or interferes with your daily activities.  There may be times when outside support or even psychological treatment is recommended to regulate anxiety. Formal psychotherapy treatment for anxiety is effective and is relatively short-term. Dr. McClendon also introduces the concept of scrupulosity, a disorder otherwise known as religious OCD.  Obsessive-compulsive disorder (OCD) is characterized by particular obsessions that create a significant amount of anxiety followed by compulsions, mental or physical actions done in an effort to neutralize the anxiety.  This generates high-intensity anxiety and an inability to extricate oneself from the compulsive cycle.  The content of OCD varies, such as concerns over contamination, symmetry, or order.  For some, the content takes on religious themes, with such concerns about sinning or confessing “properly.”  This can make it difficult for those with scrupulosity to discern the nature of the problem; they may believe their problem is spiritual, but in reality, they are trapped by poorly-regulated, very high anxiety.  Martin Luther, a catalyst of the 16th-century Protestant Reformation, is believed to have suffered from scrupulosity.  He wearied his ecclesiastical leaders with repeated confessions. Martin Luther “confessed frequently, often daily, and for as long as six hours on a single occasion.” (Bainton, Here I stand, 35).  Additional resources can be found in Dr. McClendon’s Ensign articles: “Understanding Scrupulosity (Religious OCD)” “Discerning Your Feelings: Anxiety or the Spirit?” About Our Guest: Dr. Debra Theobald McClendon is a licensed psychologist in the state of Utah. She is a Clinical Psychologist with training in Marriage and Family Therapy. She focuses her practice on helping those with Religious OCD (Scrupulosity). Dr. McClendon has published articles on anxiety and Obsessive Compulsive Disorder’s Scrupulosity in the Ensign.  She has also co-authored book chapters and articles on outcome assessment and group therapy in the academic community.  She and her husband, Richard J. McClendon, have published a book chapter on LDS marriage and divorce.  More recently they have published the book: “Commitment to the Covenant: Strengthening the Me, We, and Thee of Marriage.” Dr. McClendon has previously taught as an adjunct faculty member at both Brigham Young University and Utah Valley University.  On a personal note, Dr. McClendon enjoys working out, reading, mountain views, doing puzzles, reading to her kiddos, sitting on the deck in the evening with her hubby, and eating spicy garden salsa and dark chocolate with mint (but not together).   Commitment to the Covenant: Strengthening the Me, We, and Thee of Marriage "Understanding Scrupulosity"

About the Interview: The First Vision is a podcast produced by the Joseph Smith Papers and published by the Latter-day Saint church, which is now available on the Joseph Smith Papers website and podcast syndicators. Our guest, Spencer W. McBride, wrote and hosted the show, which has proven to be wildly popular. During its debut week, it ranked in the top 25 of all podcasts on iTunes. The format of the show is engaging and innovative, interspersing narration with interviews. Moving beyond the standard narrative, McBride elevates the discussion regarding one of the most familiar incidents in Latter-day Saint history as he urges listeners to view Joseph’s experience “through the eyes of a historian.”   Building on the familiar, guests provide additional context to the “unusual excitement” that encourages a young man to seek forgiveness for his sins in a nearby grove of trees. About Our Guest: Spencer W. McBride is a volume editor of the Documents series of the Joseph Smith Papers. He earned a PhD in history from Louisiana State University. His research interests include the intersections of religion and politics in early America, and his book, Pulpit and Nation: Clergymen and the Politics of Revolutionary America, examines the political activism of Protestant clergymen during the American Revolution and in the early American republic. Extra Resources: The First Vision: a Joseph Smith Papers Podcast

Horrified by the Holocaust and fearful that the New Testament, as it has been traditionally understood, may have contributed to this tragedy, Christian scholars and ministers of all stripes have, in recent decades, proposed several, “extra-textual” ways of altering that understanding. Eugene Fisher, for instance, the former director of ecumenical affairs for the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops, warns against reading the passion accounts, which seem to portray all Jews as guilty of Jesus’s death, from the pulpit without “adequate catechesis and preparation.” He also recommends that passages that reinforce this charge, such as the Parable of the Marriage Feast in Matthew (22:1–15), should be avoided entirely. Marilyn Salmon, an episcopal priest and writer, similarly counsels caution when presenting certain incidents in the New Testament, especially in the Gospel of John. She encourages ministers to read from Bibles that substitute “our people,” “the crowd,” or “the public” for John’s spiritually blind “Jews” and suggests that when they relate stories that appear to accentuate that blindness, such as Nicodemus’ nocturnal visit to see Jesus, that they do so imaginatively, from another, pro-Jewish, viewpoint. In addition, both Salmon and Fisher recommend that readers of the New Testament avail themselves of “interpretive tools,” such as study Bibles and scholarly commentaries, which place the hostility towards Jews present in John and in the other Gospels in a more historically limited, less “everlasting” context. John Shelby Spong, a retired episcopal bishop, offers a more radical and, for many, a less acceptable approach. He views many of the events in the Gospels as simply “untenable,” primarily because they represent for him literary, not historical, efforts to portray Christianity as superior to Judaism. As Spong sees it, there were no literal shepherds, no angels, no guiding star, no magi, no flight into Egypt,” no temptation in the Wilderness—not even a Sermon on the Mount. He therefore urges his readers to look “beyond the literal and culturally dependent interpretation of the Gospels” and read into them what he feels is “their true, more modern meaning”—a meaning that not only refutes anti-Semitism but conforms to current political agendas. In this episode of Latter-day Saint Perspectives Podcast, Laura Harris Hales interviews Bradley J. Kramer about his new book, Gathered in One: How the Book of Mormon Counters Anti-Semitism in the New Testament. In this book, Kramer reviews how Fisher, Salmon, Spong, as well as other Christian scholars and ministers have attempted to deal with such anti-Semitic elements as the “blood curse” in Matthew (27:25) and John’s claim that the devil is the father of the Jews (8:44), and he contrasts their efforts with the approach employed by the Book of Mormon.   According to Kramer, the Book of Mormon counters anti-Semitic elements in the New Testament not by avoiding, altering, reimagining, or rejecting its most problematic passages but by joining with the New Testament and by adding to an expanded canon a multitude of pro-Jewish elements. Coming as they do from a scripture of equal stature and status, the many pro-Jewish statements, portrayals, settings, and structuring elements present in the Book of Mormon mix in with their anti-Semitic counterparts in the New Testament and overwhelm them with their greater power, broader context, wider sweep, and closer connections to Judaism as it is practiced today. In this way, the Book of Mormon discourages anti-Semitic attitudes and behaviors in the same way the New Testament encourages them—literarily, and it does so respectfully, without challenging the New Testament’s text or undermining its religious authority or reliability. As Kramer writes, just as “the Gospels work together, despite their differences, to provide Christians with a more complete and more religiously accurate picture of Jesus and his teachings,

The Book of Mormon contains a multitude of short, impressive statements, which Latter-day Saints often memorize and even “master,” so they can repeat them as the occasion requires. These statements include divine promises such as “Inasmuch as ye shall keep my commandments ye shall prosper in the land” (2 Ne. 1:20); inspiring resolutions such as Nephi’s commitment to “go and do the things which the Lord hath commanded” (1 Ne. 3:7); theological insights such as “Adam fell that men might be; and men are, that they might have joy” (2 Ne. 2:25); as well as ringing assertions such as “wickedness never was happiness” (Alma 41:10) and “charity is the pure love of Christ” (Moro. 7:47). Nevertheless, despite the obvious utility of these statements, Bradley J. Kramer asserts that “the Book of Mormon is simply too much of a book to be approached simply as a source of quotations. It is a sophisticated literary work where ideas do not exist in isolation, but where wording, characterization, setting, description, plot, as well as their placement in the canon relative to other scriptures, must be considered in order to be fully understood and appreciated. The Book of Mormon consequently demands a comprehensive, in-depth literary approach.” In this episode of the Latter-day Saint Perspectives Podcast, Laura Harris Hales interviews Bradley J. Kramer about his book Beholding the Tree of Life: A Rabbinic Approach to the Book of Mormon. In this book, Kramer outlines what he means by a “comprehensive, in-depth literary approach” and employs many of the techniques developed by Talmudic and post-Talmudic rabbis in order to show how this approach applies to the Book of Mormon.   Kramer makes no claim that Nephi, Jacob, and the other authors of the Book of Mormon were personally acquainted with these techniques or consciously employed them as they wrote. Nonetheless, since this rabbinic approach represents what he calls “universal principles” of effective reading that have been specifically adapted for scriptural narratives, he feels they are well suited to the Book of Mormon. As Kramer asks, “Given that these rabbis took seriously the words of the Hebrew scriptures; assumed that these scriptures formed a coherent, meaningful, and inspired whole; and devoted themselves to scrutinizing every aspect of that whole in order to uncover subtly, sometimes hidden messages from God, why would their approach not work well with other scriptures? And why would it not work especially well with the Book of Mormon, a scripture that, like the Hebrew scriptures, tells a story of how a group of Jews left their homes, journeyed to a far off Promised Land, attempted to create a ‘holy nation,’ sinned under judges as well as kings, received prophetic warnings of destruction if they did not repent, failed to repent, and were ultimately dispersed or destroyed along with their capital city?” Kramer, clearly, thinks it does and includes in his book several examples to defend his position. For instance, the Talmudic and post-Talmudic rabbis taught that the Torah (the Five Books of Moses) has at least seventy “faces” or meanings (Numbers Rabbah 13:15). They, therefore, encouraged their students to read the Torah on multiple levels—something Kramer feels the writers of the Book of Mormon do as well. As he points out, not only does the Book of Mormon contain at least one highly developed allegory (Zenos’s allegory of the olive tree), but Lehi’s dream demonstrates how simple elements in the Book of Mormon (mocking people in Jerusalem, a river and fruit in the wilderness, darkness in which Nephi creeps to find Laban’s house) can be interpreted allegorically—much as Nephi’s vision and his lecturing of his brothers afterward shows how the meaning of these elements can be expanded sermonically as well as mystically, through direct experience with the divine. These rabbis also advocated that their students study everything

The editors of the Joseph Smith Papers Project spend years poring over the documents that are featured in each volume. After marinating themselves in the record, they become pretty familiar with Joseph's daily activity for the period. I asked Christian Heimburger, an editor of the recently released volume 9 of the Document Series, to identify several items that shed light on Joseph's life in Nauvoo from December 1841 to April 1842. Below are the documents we discuss: Joseph Smith as editor of the Times & Seasons Revelation, 28 January 1842Agreement with Ebenezer Robinson, 4 February 1842Editorial, ca. 1 March 1842Book of Abraham Excerpt and Facsimile No. 2, 15 March 1842Church History, 1 March 1842 (Wentworth Letter)Selections from Times and Seasons, 1 and 15 March 1842 An Interesting, Cryptic Letter Letter from B. F. Withers, 28 December 1841 Missionary Work and Eastern Branches Letter from Eli Maginn, 22 March 1842Letter from Erastus Snow, 11 April 1842Petition from Philadelphia Branch, 22 April 1842 Missouri and Joseph Smith’s views on Abolitionism Letter to John C. Bennett, 7 March 1842Letter from John C. Bennett, 8 March 1842 About Our Guest: Christian Heimburger received a B.A. in American Studies from Brigham Young University and Ph.D. in modern American history from the University of Colorado, Boulder. He wrote his doctoral dissertation on Japanese Americans who left World War II incarceration camps to work in communities around the Mountain West, and is working on a book manuscript based on that dissertation. Christian has taught nineteenth and twentieth-century American history courses at Utah Valley University and Brigham Young University. He is currently employed as a historian and documentary editor at the Joseph Smith Papers, and is a co-editor on Documents: Volume 5, Documents: Volume 9, and Documents: Volume 13. Extra Resources:  Joseph Smith Papers, Documents

In 1979, the first Latter-day Saint edition of the Bible was published. Notably, it included a "Topical Guide with Selected Concordance and Index." Approximately 100 Church Education System teachers and about the same number of returned missionaries at Brigham Young University assisted in the process of gathering scriptural references for a long list of categories. Subsequently, several committees continued the process of compiling, organizing, and categorizing this large collection of topical verses.1 This tool was designed as a significant resource to aid church members in a more purposeful, robust study of the scriptures. Though not exhaustive, the Topical Guide provides just under 3,500 categories with reference to over 50,000 verses of scripture across the Bible, Book of Mormon, Doctrine and Covenants, and Pearl of Great Price.  Beginning in 2017, President Russell M. Nelson extended challenges to the members of the Church to study Jesus Christ across the Standard Works. He invited them to begin their study by carefully reading everything under “Jesus Christ” in the Topical Guide.2 By far its largest category, a study of “Jesus Christ,” includes 57 subcategories with more than 2,200 scripture references. President Nelson stated that completing this course of study changed his life, and to all those who would take the same challenge, he promised an increased love for the Savior and God’s laws, a desire to keep the commandments, and power to overcome temptation and danger.3 Stephanie Dibb Sorensen teaches as adjunct faculty in the Department of Church History and Doctrine at Brigham Young University. She primarily teaches the Living Prophets class, and while inviting students to heed prophetic counsel, she initiated a personal course of study based on President Nelson’s Topical Guide challenge. By enhancing her study with teachings of living prophets and religious educators, Stephanie created a study guide to help others undertake a similar study experience. The result was Learn of Me, an annotated study workbook of Jesus Christ in the Topical Guide, published by Covenant Communications in October 2019.  President Ezra Taft Benson once testified, “To learn of Christ necessitates the study of the scriptures and the testimonies of those who know him.”4 The Learn of Me workbook includes the full-verse citation of the listed scripture references across all 57 subtitles, supplemented with quotes from prophets and apostles, general authorities, and gospel scholars. It also includes reflection questions, definitions, suggestions for further study, prompts for family discussion, recommended hymns and videos for each topic, and plenty of space to take notes. Beautiful artwork from James Tissot depicts scenes from the life of Jesus Christ in each chapter. An appendix outlines a chronological course of study through the key events of Christ’s life across the four gospels. These combined resources provide a convenient tool to complete the prophet’s challenge and come unto Christ through the study of all scriptures listed in the Topical Guide and related modern revelation. After the completion of the updated LDS-version of the Standard Works, including the new Topical Guide, Elder Boyd K. Packer made the following prophecy:  The older generation has been raised without them, but there is another generation growing up. The revelations will be opened to them as to no other in the history of the world. Into their hands now are placed the sticks of Joseph and of Judah. They will develop a gospel scholarship beyond that which their forebears could achieve. They will have the testimony that Jesus is the Christ and be competent to proclaim Him and to defend Him.5 This personal testimony is the goal of the Learn of Me study workbook. In this episode of the Latter-day Saint Perspectives Podcast, Laura Harris Hales and Stephanie Dibb Sorensen discuss the research and writing process that went into Le...

Nick Frederick has a gift for sharing thought-provoking insights about familiar topics. In Episode 92, we discussed intertextuality in the Book of Mormon. This time around we discuss the Book of Revelation, perhaps one of the most neglected books in our contemporary Latter-day Saint lexicon. Lesson manuals usually refer to verses that encapsulate concepts or convey warm feelings about the gospel; the Book of Revelation defies this picking and choosing and demands a treatment that looks at the whole picture. But let’s admit it, wading through its ancient imagery is difficult. Lucky for us, Dr. Frederick has done the heavy lifting and shares his insights on both the beautiful metaphors contained within the book and how Joseph Smith used this New Testament book to frame Restoration concepts. Please join me as we dive for hidden treasures in the Book of Revelation. About Our Guest: Nicholas J. Frederick served a mission in Brussels, Belgium, then attended BYU where he received his BA in classics and his MA in comparative studies. He then attended Claremont Graduate University, where he completed a PhD in the history of Christianity with an emphasis in Mormon studies, after which he returned to work at BYU. His research focuses primarily on the intertextual relationship between the text of the Bible and Mormon scripture.  He enjoys teaching courses on the Book of Mormon and the New Testament, particularly the writings of Paul and the Book of Revelation. *Dr. Frederick is indebted to the scholarship of Craig R. Koester, author of the Anchor Bible Commentary on the book of Revelation, as well as the shorter (and cheaper—so everyone should buy it) book Revelation and the End of All Things.  Extra Resources:  Episode 114 Transcript "The New Testament in the Doctrine and Covenants" in the New Testament: History, Culture, and Society "The Paradoxical Lamb and the Christology of John's Apocalypse" in Thou Art the Christ, the Son of the Living God (Sperry Symposium 2018) LDS Perspectives Podcast Episode 114: The Book of Revelation with Nicholas J. Frederick* This is not a verbatim transcript. Some grammar elements and wording have been modified for clarity. Introduction:              Nick Frederick has a gift for sharing thought-provoking insights about familiar topics. In Episode 92, we discussed intertextuality in the Book of Mormon. This time around, we discuss the book of Revelation, perhaps one of the most neglected books in our contemporary Latter-day Saint lexicon.                                     Lesson manuals usually refer to verses that encapsulate concepts or convey warm feelings about the gospel; the book of Revelation defies this picking and choosing and demands a treatment that looks at the whole picture. But let’s admit it, wading through its ancient imagery is difficult.                                     Lucky for us, Dr. Frederick has done the heavy lifting and shares his insights on both the beautiful metaphors contained within the book and how Joseph Smith used this New Testament book to frame Restoration concepts.                                     Please join me as we dive for hidden treasures in the book of Revelation. Laura Hales:               This is Laura Harris Hales, and I am pleased to be here today again with Nick Frederick, one of my favorite people to interview and talk to about biblical studies. We’re going to talk today about the book of Revelation (no “s”) in the New Testament and Latter-day Saint scripture. Nick, what have you been doing since the last time I interviewed you? Nick Frederick:           I have been teaching here at BYU, working on my regular stuff, looking at the connections between the Book of Mormon and the Bible and the Doctrine and Covenants and the Bible. I have also been working on a paper on the Daughter of Jared from Ether 8, writing a couple of papers on D&C 93 (that’ll be coming

Laura Harris Hales interviews George B. Handley about If Truth Were a Child: Essays. They dive into such diverse topics as religion, politics, and community involvement. About Our Guest: George B. Handley teaches interdisciplinary humanities at Brigham Young University. He also serves as the associate director of the Faculty Center. He received his PhD in comparative literature from UC Berkeley. If Truth Were a Child

Dr. Lincoln Blumell discusses the landmark Council of Nicaea, the Nicaean Creed, and a new book he edited about New Testament times.

About the Interview: With the release of Saints last year, the study of church history officially moved beyond the dusty cobwebs of the Church History Library and the podiums of sparsely attended academic conferences to the nightstands of lay members. Suddenly, members were talking about a more complex narrative than they had rehearsed in their Sunday meetings. But was this change really sudden? J. B. Haws, associate dean of BYU’s College of Religious Education, believes this interest has been growing for many years. In 2017, guest podcaster Taunalyn Rutherford interviewed Dr. Haws about his research on what he sees as a seminal moment in the study of Latter-day Saint history. He traces the origins of this new trend and speculates why this moment has been so much more successful than a similar increase in interest during the 1970s. Their discussion identifies key players in architecting a movement that will shape how a new generation of Saints approach Latter-day Saint history. Please note that this interview was conducted before members were asked to use terms other than Mormon and Mormonism when referring to the church. About Our Guest:  Professor J.B. Haws is an accomplished associate professor of Church History and Doctrine at Brigham Young University. Since attending Weber State University and BYU and receiving his PhD in American History from the University of Utah, Professor Haws has authored and edited for several works on the history of the Latter-day Saints in America. These include the book The Mormon Image in the American Mind: Fifty Years of Public Perception and the articles “Reconciling Joseph Smith—History 1:10 and 1:18–19” for Religious Educator, “When Mormonism Mattered Less in Presidential Politics: George Romney’s 1968 Window of Possibilities” for Mormon Historical Studies, and “President Joseph F. Smith’s Encouragement of His Brother, Patriarch John Smith” for the book Joseph F. Smith: Reflections on the Man and His Times, which he also worked on as an editor. His focus on the Church’s history and American perception of it through the twentieth and twenty-first centuries has helped change and inform public opinion of the Church. Professor Haws was born and raised in Utah. He served a mission in the North Carolina Raleigh Mission before returning to his home state for his education and career. After graduating, Professor Haws spent several years teaching seminary in northern Utah before joining the religious education staff of BYU as an associate professor and a coordinator of BYU’s Office or Religious Outreach. After returning home from North Carolina, he married Laura Favero. The two have four children that Professor Haws talks about in his devotional “…” From his children, he has learned many different lessons about love, pride, cooperation, and comparison that he shared in that speech for his BYU audience. “I can still hear his little voice yelling, “Good catch, Par!” or “That was great, Par!” And then he would miss the next throw that came to him.  But somehow that didn’t dampen his enthusiasm for Parley’s success.  Somehow, he knew that his contest was not with Parley.  He could have joy in Parley’s success.  How do we recapture that sense of childlike celebration for the good fortune of others?”* *Biography courtesy of BYU Speeches. Extra Resources: The Mormon Image in the American Mind: Fifty Years of Public Perception Wrestling with Comparisons