Suicide is not a simple thing to understand, nor is it uncommon. It affects us all on varying levels and has become even more relevant in these times of necessary social distance due to the Covid-19 pandemic. We could tell you there is hope for yourself or loved ones that may be considering some form of escape from the pains of life, but we want to do more than that. In this episode of the Journey Podcast, we dive into the different forms that thoughts of not wanting to exist and feel take on. Skimming the top off the symptoms that lead individuals to suicide will not always work in preventing it, but digging to the root of emotions and understanding where the symptoms originated may be what someone needs to regain their perspective of self worth. Jon, Terry and Don talk about suicide from three different perspectives to seek understanding of loneliness, pain and worth. If you or someone you know is contemplating suicide on any level, please call the National Suicide Prevention Helpline at 1-800-273-8255. Transcription Jon: Hello, and welcome to Journey Coaching podcast. My name is John Y make sure to visit Journey Coaching website at JourneyCoaching.org that’s journey, coaching.org. Well today’s topic is, is always timely and always serious. As we talked today about suicide or that. The taking of one’s own life today with me here at journey studios or Terry Carlson, Terry is a registered nurse in a licensed mental health counselor is also one of the founders of journey coaching. So how are you, Terry? How are you? Terry: I’m good. Thank you. Jon: Well, we thank you for taking the time out of your day to, to be with us and also with us as Don Evans and Don you’ve heard on the podcast before, Donna’s a journey coach and he brings a wealth of life experience to our discussion. Today. You might say that Don has a PhD in life. Welcome Don. Good to see you. Don: Thanks, John. How are you today? Jon: I am. I am. Well, thank you. And this is a, a bit of a serious topic from, maybe what you would hear on our podcasts in general. It’s a little bit heavy and you might wonder, how that fits into our podcast, with regard to, guided personal coaching. but in many respects, there are many circumstances that could be linked to suicide and the lack of having so on and. You’re a coroner, throughout your life journey. And we’ll mention that again throughout today, but I want to make sure that we mentioned it right off the top. the national suicide prevention lifeline number. Is +1 800-273-8255. That’s +1 800-273-8255. If you’re contemplating taking your own life, as you listen to this podcast, we want you to stop listening right now. Call that number +1 800-273-8255. Okay, let’s start our discussion about how this topic percolated to the top and, and why we’re talking about it today. Don, I’m gonna start with you this, this day and ask you, what kind of led to, your request really, to, to do a podcast, about suicide? Don: Well, John is present just about roughly two weeks ago. Now a friend of mine from my life group that I’m involved with on Sundays at church, Meda. I guess a bad choice and took her own life. this is something I struggled with years ago, myself. And as you had mentioned earlier, other people have heard me on these podcasts. we did do a podcast. I think Terry, you and I did the one on loneliness. so it was something that I’d always contemplated maybe doing here at journey, but. We’re, you know, we’re trying to be life coaches and help people and, you know, lift them up and I’m like, wow, we really wouldn’t want to be doing my sad story because I dealt with that for a lot of years, not real long ago. So for what sparked me to do it was because of that loss, was very close to her and her husband and it just motivated me to cry. Reach out to journey coaching, speak with Terry and say, I think we should do this. Jon: So Don set the stage just a little bit for us here. your friend, obviously had a family committed, suicide, taking her own life. And yet that has a personal, experience in your own life as well, correct? Don: Yes. Jon: tell us a little bit about, about your story, real quick as, as regards to what your thoughts were, maybe what led you to, think about that kind of, ultimate decision and, and maybe a little bit about swayed you away from that? Don: Well, Okay. So with her, I think there’s an assumption out there that people sometimes think they can see, notice some things. And it’s true. I mean, Terry, you know, you could speak to this a lot more intelligently than me, but. In her case, John, nobody would have suspected this in a million years. She was very deep into the word, you know, notes, multiple Bibles. She was just a wealth of knowledge. We all committed her in my, at her every Sunday for the homework, that amount of time that she spent doing this. But yet I have to be honest. And I shared with the group that I’ve always. Glanced at her and didn’t see any happiness. I don’t feel guilty. There’s as the pastor that did the service at church said that. You know, just know that you’re all going to have a lot of what ifs. Well, what if I would have noticed it? And what if I could have, you know, should I have talked to her? Lisa don’t play that blame game with yourself. Cause you didn’t know. but I honestly have to say, I kind of thought there was something, a little odd there because of the, she was just kind of shut down. She was easily sharing the wealth of knowledge. Then was very quiet. but we’re all different now. Thank God. Everybody’s extroverted as I am. We joke about that all the time here. in my story, mine, part of it was in the loneliness podcasts that we did. Was this going through a lot of real hard struggles in life? another wife had left kid thing with the one with a kid of mine, her and I had, taking her away from me. tough economy, times money was tight. I w had been drinking regularly at the time when it was more than what you’d call a social drinker. So I spent a lot of time alone in my garage thinking about that and just basically just having a pity party for myself. And it started to get really way out of control. this went on for months and months and months. And then I, I won’t go into those details. If anybody wants to know, you know, reach out to us, we’ll be glad to share on a one-on-one basis. but I spent a lot of time planning how I was going to do it. and then I chose not to, and then I chose an alternative way. then I decided to try to drink myself to death. And fortunately that didn’t work either. So that’s, that’s just a real brief story of it. So that’s kinda why I wanted to do this as we were doing it today. I just really feel inclined to come and talk about this because I don’t, if there’s anything I can do. To not ever lose a friend or any of our listeners, if you’d, like you said, in the opening, if you’re thinking about it, get off of here now and call that number. But if, if one person, just one in the whole world stops today, Then us three spending time here, it’s more than worth it. Jon: You know, that’s very true, Don, and I appreciate you sharing that personal information. It’s not easy to share that. Terry, the story probably sounds familiar if you’ve, And have worked with, people who are contemplating suicide or having struggles in their lives where that might be, something they would think about. is this common? Is this something that is a common in thoughts of, humans, today? Terry: Absolutely. I think, if, if people are truly honest, most people. We’ll say that at some point in their life, they have thought about what it would be like to die. Right. that doesn’t mean they’re going to commit suicide, just thinking about it. Isn’t, you know, looking at it from a counselor’s perspective. I’ll have people sometimes come in and they’re afraid that if they tell me that they’re, they’re think they’ve thought about dying, that I’ll do something I’ll have them committed or whatever. And I try to explain that no, that’s, that is more common than anybody probably thinks about that. You know, I. It would be really unusual. I think, to find somebody who, who had never thought about what would it feel like to die and, and, you know, there most people, I think even who commit suicide or try to, it’s not so much that they want to die. I think it’s just that they, they want to stop hurting. They want to stop. Life is so painful that they want to stop living because living means hurting. And if they found a way out of the hurting, I don’t think that that. Taking their own life would be the option they would choose. Don: You just nailed it. I gotta jump in here because yeah, I would, I couldn’t take the mental pain anymore. I couldn’t, and I couldn’t take the physical pain anymore. It would just gotten so, so horrible. And I would listen to some certain country songs. I could probably tell you the four or five that I listened to, and it’s not about country music. I’ve heard Christians come at me years ago on this depressing stuff. Wasn’t too well. That’s your take on it. But unfortunately, those songs, most of them are true about a heartfelt pain that this person went through. You know, trace Atkins. I keep on trying he’s climbing and crawling cause he keeps trying, but he keeps on trying. He doesn’t give up. But the pain and we’ve joked about the sun podcast. I’m kind of a tough rowdy sort of fellow you’d think, well, God, nothing’s going to bother him. You know, it’s like cast iron, not, no, you can’t judge a book by its cover and you can’t judge a humans being feelings by the way they present themselves. You know, I’ll use my own word. I was a pretend to Holick for years. I contemplated suicide. As recently as 2018, that you don’t even know Terry. So in that little shed, all that drinking, I was just not running at it hard, but I honestly didn’t care if I don’t wake up. It’s okay. If I wasn’t setting out, there was no plan in place. It’s just that I drank every day. if I don’t make it, I don’t make it. But by the grace of God I did. And that’s why I’m still here. And that’s why I’m doing this today. Jon: Well, Don mentioned some excellent, maybe underlying criteria as to what people are looking at. Are there any commonalities, Terry? is it, is it depression? Is it, life circumstances, money. relationships, or could we just do that a multiple choice in, in check all of the boxes Terry: above? Jon: What do you see and what maybe what is, what are some of the research saying? Terry: Well, I’ve got to start with what I see. And then I think the research pretty much backs it up. I think depression is one of the biggest factors when people are so depressed that they get that feeling of hopelessness and depression. Often I tell my clients, depression is lying to you. It’s saying you will never get better. And that adds to that hopelessness that you feel. And so I think depression is, is one of the big factors, although. Well, I think that more people who commit suicide are depressed, the statistics actually only show about 5% of people who are depressed, actually commit suicide or try. I think, you know, even though depression is, is a big factor, it doesn’t mean just because somebody is depressed that they’re going to do that. but I think it has a lot to do with that helplessness that people get too. And it feels, I don’t know if you’ve ever been through depression before, but anybody who’s been through depression, it, it just begins to it’s. Yeah. I try to explain it this way. I’ve had people say, well, I’m not, I can’t be depressed because I’m not sad. And it’s not really about being sad. It’s about not having that joy, not having that, you know, not enjoying things in life that they normally do, whether it’s cooking or golfing or something like that. People will often come to me and they’ll say, why just don’t enjoy these things that I used to enjoy all the time. And that’s usually a first sign that maybe there’s some depression going on. Don: Well, a lot of time. And for me back in that time, now this would have been when this really got out of control. The first time would have been about 98, 99. But whereas you speak about, they’re not really sad, but they don’t have, they’re not happy. One of my pains and sadness was that I didn’t have my little girl anymore. I was very disappointed that I had lost another wife to another man again. And it just. You get to this point and then you don’t have family around you. there’s insights on that, that Terry knows that we won’t get off track here, but no contact with my children, my, even my adult children. And. I’m not blaming them. I’m just clarifying for people that are having thoughts that there’s a thought that will take you down. A deep dark hole real fast is when you don’t have any family. Terry: Isolation is one of the top warning Don: signs thing. Don’t. I think we closed out that day with me saying something effected don’t set alone, being alone is bad, and that’s why those numbers have spiked up because of what’s going on in our country. Right now, look at the isolation and the you’ve got the numbers. We discussed them before this podcast. It’s alarming when I found those last week. The, the, the rate is that much higher because of this isolation stuff. This is so hard on us. Terry: COVID has not held to a pan Jon: isolation. Yes. COVID. Hasn’t helped the head at all. No. what are some of the other, Terry? Terry: Well, I, I wanna, I want to focus a little bit on the isolation because I think that’s a key thing. Isolation does a couple of things. First of all, we get isolated because of something like COVID or family breakups, or, you know, different things like that. But then we start to feel bad or the person starts to feel really bad. And then they, they feel like they don’t want to be out around other people. And so they further isolate themselves. So it may start off as isolation that’s caused by something else. But then they start to get really kind of in that, in that zone of, I need I’m, I’m not worth anything and nobody needs to see me and Don: know. Terry: It becomes, it becomes a, yeah, it’s almost like a snowball kind of effect. but there are a lot of other factors, substance use and substance abuse alcoholism. if, if it’s not a problem to begin with, it can become a problem. A lot of times in this there’s more drinking now, more alcoholism that. Rate is going up now because of COVID, you know, people aren’t going out to the bars as much, but they’re, you know, getting a great deal of alcohol and bringing it home. And that’s how they’re trying to cope with stuff like this. We know that alcoholism and substance abuse can make it worse. There are a lot of people who commit suicide or make a suicide attempt under the influence. You know, maybe in, in a sober state state of mind, they would never do it. But then they get under the influence and alcoholism specifically is, well, both of them, think of addiction as an emotional disease. your emotions are heightened when you’re under the influence. And so when somebody is having some feelings like that to begin with, and then they drink too much or they take some pills or something like that, there are a lot of. Issues with that. Jon: And one of the things that, that comes to mind too, as we’re sitting here talking my mind is, is thinking of adults, who I would consider, you know, people over 18 years old, probably out of the house, maybe living on their own. Do we see this in children as well? Do we see a trend? even during these times, with, with the youth taking their own lives, Terry: very young children is it’s almost incredibly rare, you know, the, that. Zero to five, six, seven, eight, somewhere in there, the trend they’re starting to count at around 10 age 10. And of course the, the rate is very small and age tend to, I’m not sure I’ve got it. I looked at some statistics yesterday. it, it starts to climb kind of average after puberty and then it gets, it just continues to climb. I think the highest rate. And again, I’d have to look at my statistics again, but I think one of the highest rates is actually in middle-aged men. although there are, there are other statistics. I found that for instance, the, basically what they’re seeing is women will actually attempt suicide more than men, men succeed more than women. And so, and, and when women try it, they use a little bit less lethal mess that’s than men do. A lot of times men will use. Firearms or something like that. Don: that was at my peak. You nailed it. I was middle-aged in my forties and I, I, it just jogged my memory. I am still blown away by the question you asked me that morning when I called you on the phone. Do you remember what you asked me when I told you a brief snapshot of what I was doing shot? No pun intended. I had a gun stuck in my mouth night after night and never pulled the trigger. Do you remember what you asked me? Would you ask me that again? Just say it, like you said, why, why did I not pull? Terry: Right. What kept you from pulling the trigger? Don: I didn’t want to make a mess of the beautiful garage that I had built. And you said. Terry: You you valued your garage more than your own life? Don: Pathetic? No, no, but seriously, I want people to hear that I valued my garage more than I valued my own life and the damage that it would have done to friends and family. Even the ones that weren’t talking to me, just look what that would have done. But the number one thing that kept me from my toe, squeezing the trigger on the 12 gauge. Was, I didn’t want to mess up my nice pretty garage that I, yeah, that’s pretty cool. Jon: Speaks to speaks to putting our faith in things. sometimes rather than in Don: an interesting way. Well, we always talk about God. Doesn’t like people that hard and hang on to stuff, you know, Terry: but in this case it kept you alive. Jon: Yeah. Don: Yeah. Yeah. I valued my stuff. But he didn’t value my life and side note on that. I wasn’t connected to God or Jesus at that time in my life. I knew believed in God and Jesus, but I had no connection, no church background, no nothing. so, Jon: well, that’s a nice segue into the question, Terry of, you know, what are. What are some of those circumstances that maybe allow, an individual to make a different decision like Don did, and did not take his life, even though he was very close to that. I mean, it was his garage, possession. you know, you’ve probably talked to people who are like Don, who have not taken their lives, but thought about it and planned it. Terry: and I’m always looking for, what kept them from doing it. That’s the question. because then I can capitalize on that. If I find out that, well, you know, what’s kept you from doing this so far and they’ll say, well, because my daughter or my son or my, you know, my friends or my family, you know, then I will capitalize on that. And I will really kind of go into that and talk about that relationship because that’s a protective factor in their life. That’s keeping them from hurting themselves. And, you know, we, we talk about how important that that person is and how isn’t that great that this person’s in your life. And we really try to get to, to go with that. But there’s, there’s usually something that in that case that, that we can pull on, that’s a protective factor. Don: I will tell you one thing that most. And maybe you two won’t even believe, but I have to share it because it’s gospel truth. There were several times during that six month period, this became a night weekly game for me. but every once in a while I would hear this voice. And my grandma’s said these words when I was about seven years old, she goes, Dani, come here. I want to tell you something. You don’t know. Jesus. And I understand that. And you’re not going to understand what I tell you, but I know, I know that someday Jesus comes to use you in a real miraculous way. She goes, now you go along now. I mean, this was long time ago. I’m 62, one years old. I heard that voice a couple of nights. And put the gun down. I don’t know if there’s any validation, but I that’s the truth. I heard her speak to me. We’ll always talk about, well, I didn’t hear Jesus directly speak to me, but I just felt it was almost like I heard it. And it’s like, and that Terry: was an important voice in your life. Yeah, she was, she was an important person. Don: Lots of respect her grandpa. Good Christian people read out of her Bible every day. Right. You know, that was the only thing. Thing. I knew about being a Christian if I got to spend a weekend with them, but she always, she told all of her kids, my aunts and uncles, she goes, you know, if y’all can be a little more like Donnie, there you’d be better off. Well, look how I turned out. And it was a mess and a drunk and an alcoholic for years. But somehow those words rang loud at me Terry: when I love what she said, because she showed you love and she showed you value, even when you weren’t doing what she. Maybe would have thought, you know, she wasn’t holding that against you. Don: Right. And now you knowing me for almost two years now and knowing what I do not to give myself any accolades. I think she was right. Terry: I think you’re right. Jon: So, so let me, let me kind of turn this back just a little bit. So we, you know, Don talked about his faith, talked about his, a grandmother who, it poured even for a brief moment into your life like that and, and changed your life. although you, you couldn’t see that until you got to that point, right? Right. Yeah. What about our friend here that, that took her own life who, goes to church, studied the Bible was a believer. what do we say to those that might be listening out there, today? that might be saying kind of like I am in my brain right now. W why didn’t our friend hear that voice? how come she followed through knowing what she knows, About, the end of our lives and, and where we as Christians, purport to be, what happened there is, do we know, is there any way to know in, is there anything we could have done, to help now? This is a tough question and maybe there’s not a good answer to that. Terry: I don’t, I don’t think there is, there’s a lot of speculation, you know, some churches, some people would say, you know, if you take your life, you’re not going to heaven. and they’re picking a certain part of the Bible. I pick a different part of the Bible that says that there’s nothing that can keep us from God’s love even ourselves. And so, I look at, you know, maybe she was depressed. and depression can be, you know, it’s, it’s a mental illness. It’s, it’s something that, you know, I, I believe that we have a very loving God and, maybe it was her time. Maybe it was, you know, he let her come home because that was that it was her time to come home and, and stop being in pain. Don: Yeah. Pastor spoke about that at the Memorial service last Friday. That validates what you just said, your belief that, yeah, she went him and she knew Jesus real well. She, she really knew Jesus. So would lead one to go, well, she had that much faith and that much trust in God. Why would she do that? Unbeknownst to me in her situation, I have found out that they didn’t do a lot of interacting with a lot of other people. They were. Quite secluded all the time. So this is just the wild guests, as we were talking about the isolation stuff. You just wonder if she wasn’t extremely lonely, even though she was married and things of that nature. I can’t say too much. I don’t want to get in trouble here. her husband knows that I’m recording. This. So I did ask permission to record and talk about my story and just mentioned as a friend. but yeah, I think there was a lot of loneliness there that we didn’t even quite understand. Jon: Terry, you made a comment a little while ago when Don asked you what you said to him when he was telling you about having a gun in his mouth every night. And you S you said, why didn’t you do it? And, and for those of us who, you know, may be shy, Terry: actually, I think the question, the question I asked was what kept you? What kept you? Jon: Yes. Thank you. That’s a little better way. Terry: I didn’t want to make it sound like, well, why didn’t you do it? Don: I like why Jon: this is why the moderator should take better notes by the way. Don: A tow in for night. Jon: Do you know? That’s, that’s a pretty straight forward question. most of us, probably, outside of counseling would tiptoe around, a question like that. you said it in, he had to answer it and he did. And that led to, you know, better, better counsel that, or, you know, understanding, between both of you in a counseling situation. is there anything harmful. That we would say if we, if we love somebody, if I, if I knew a family member, if I knew a good friend who I knew was contemplating suicide, is there anything I should not say to them? Absolutely. Or something better than nothing? Well, Terry: I, I think what happens a lot of times is it surprises us so much as, you know, just as humans, human beings, that somebody else would be this desperate that somebody else would be in this much pain. And we don’t, I think there’s, there’s, there’s some panic. That goes on in the average person, when you hear about this, who hasn’t gone through, like who doesn’t have a master’s degree in counseling. and even for those of us, there’s still that tendency to panic. If we don’t, if we’re, you know, and I think in our panic, we want to help. And so, but, but we say some really stupid things. and I say stupid lightly. one of the things I would say is don’t minimize their pain. We tend to want to make them feel better. And so we say, Oh, it’s not that bad reality. Is it, is that bad for them? It is for them. It is. we also may want to say, we offer some platitudes sometimes, you know, every cloud has a silver lining or cheer up. we could also give them, we want to give them a pep talk. So we might say, Oh, I thought you were stronger than that. All of those things would do exactly the opposite. If somebody had said those things to you, Don, would you have felt warm fuzzies or would you have. Don: Oh, back then I’d have punched him no serious heart attack. If I would have just punched him, I was Henri. and w like, where you’re going with that too, even just through normal death, I’ve got, gotta be honest and say this. I I’ve heard people say this. So it’s been like a year since that person’s passed on. I’ve been blessed and humbled to get, to do several eulogies in the last. Seven or eight years. And it just blows my mind when people go, well, you know, role-play with me, John, John, you know, it’s been over a year since your wife passed away from cancer. You know, you, you really need to get over it. I tell those people, you need to shut up and help them get through it. Not over it. It’s okay. I Jon: don’t think you ever get over something. Don: And then the things that I read. Since this happened with this lady, I’ve watched some really neat people that have a lot of knowledge about this and you can’t do stuff like that to them. And, and then you have kids. I did a eulogy for a farmer, lost his wife to cancer. Eight months later, he remarried. A lady and the daughter walked away and handed him for the rest of his life. Well, mom’s lineman gone, you know, short time, what are you doing marrying this other room? Just condemned him. And he talked, he was honest with her. He said, honey, you don’t understand. He’s a construction worker and a farmer. I worked for this guy for years, OCD or than I am. And he said, honey, you don’t realize I haven’t never cooked a meal. I take a lunch box out with me to work every day and your mother packed them every, I don’t even know how to make a sandwich. He could build any worked for the air force and can build jets, but see, people don’t understand. They, they want to jump on something right away and make their own assessment of, well, that’s not right. That you go and marry somebody else right away. And then in his comment, back to her was, and they didn’t even go to church. Terry. He goes, well, shacking up. Ain’t the way to go. She going to be in the house, I’m going to marry her. You know, Jon: so I think I, what I hear you saying and what, what I think Terry has, pointed out as well as that we, you know, one of the things I think you could do is seek understanding, right? engage the conversation and, and, and try to find some understanding as to why they feel this way. In their Don: lives. And I used to mind, yeah, we need to show grace. Terry: Well, and if you say something like everything will be okay. I promise you’re shutting off that come first nation you’re you’re you shut off any opportunity to gain, understanding, Jon: right? Tell me more offer the open-ended question about, you know, you could be in shock and I think it’s okay to let people know that, but it’s like, okay, well tell me why you feel that way. And, It’s also a good point to remind us of the national suicide prevention lifeline. Number one more time. It’s (800) 273-8255. as we wrap up this podcast, success stories, certainly there’s been people that you’ve counseled Terry over the years that, have talked to you about this, that, that did what Don did and decided not to take their own lives. Is there hope for folks after, after depression, after, tragedies in your family, after all the things we’ve talked about in this last 25 minutes, about what could cause someone to, to consider taking their own lives? Terry: I think the hope in a success story is really that I have seen have come from when somebody comes alongside somebody and says, Hey, you look like you’re not feeling so good. How are you doing? And what can I do to help? And, you know, I know this counselor. I know this, this place that can help, you know, and they just open up, like you said, open up the conversation and try to understand what’s going on. it may be what you think it may not be, but, but you won’t know, unless you open up that conversation in a nonjudgmental sort of way and ask the question, you know, how are they feeling, validate their feelings. I get it. It must be so hard. What you’re going through. I’ve never been through this. Help me understand what that feels like for you. Don: This young man in California, that I’m coaching right now. He had asked me here a couple of weeks ago, this relates to connects right here. I just thought of this, when you’re feeling bad and you’ve got that loneliness going on and just all these things coming at you. You’re you’re sitting there defining yourself. He brought to my attention in this manner when he contacted us and got connected with me. I said, you’re going to college for this. You’ve already coaching people. I’m not qualified to coach you. He came right back at me. Guys and said, Don, can I suggest that you write this town? And I said, yes, sir. He said, start letting God define me. So my suggestion to our listeners is okay. I don’t care how bad you think you are, how worthless you think your life is that you’re convinced beyond a shadow of a doubt. It can’t possibly get any worse. I’m just going to take my life and I can’t do this anymore. Why don’t you give that to Jesus and let him define you. He defined me. You want a success story, John? That was your question. Well, I speak into this microphone. I’d say that’s a, as my prayer pastor says my head senior pastor at the church I go to says, and I stole his line. I love it. One more for Jesus today. That’s his goal on his personal level. I want one more for Jesus today. Every day when he gets up, he wants to try to get one more to Jesus. Well, there’s somebody in a store walking down the street. So there’s a success story because this old Cowboys still here, Jon: and we’re glad you are, any final words or thoughts? Terry. Terry: Yeah. If you’re a person who has someone that you love in. Kind of the darkness in there they’re struggling and stuff, you know, try not to panic, try to just understand them and, realize that people will usually not talk about suicide. There are a few people who will leave a note or something, but usually they don’t, you might hear some statement like, They might talk about how things are never going to get better or those kinds of statements, take those seriously and ask them what they mean by that. Don: you know, this better than me, Terri, if you even sense, somebody’s thinking about it, just sit down and get some people around and don’t leave them alone. I’m sure if you call that number, they’ll tell you that Don can’t be alone. Now, John, you know, called the number for me and said, this guy needs help and you can’t leave him alone. 60 seconds from now, they might pull the trigger. Right? Terry: Well that, and I think also just realizing that, you may have to do some other things. If somebody is truly talking about hurting themselves, you know, remove harmful items I had, I’ve been, I have learned to not be afraid to ask the specific question when somebody comes in and they’re very depressed. Have you. Then thinking, have you thought about hurting yourself and then when they say yes on the times that they say, yes, I’ll say, have you thought about how you’re going to do it? And if they say a certain method, then I make sure that that method is taken out of their house. you know, it it’s, it’s, don’t be afraid to ask the questions. You’re not going to talk them into doing it Jon: right. Right. They’ve already thought that through a fairly well, so, well, once again, a, a, a serious topic today. but a very important topic and I, I want to thank you both, Terry and Don for, spending the time, your thoughts, your expertise, just your background. and we hope that that’s helped someone out there today as you listen to this podcast. And again, if you are contemplating suicide right now, the national suicide prevention lifeline number is +1 800-273-8255 one 802 seven three. Eight two, five, five. You can also make sure you tell someone about our website journey, coaching.org, and you can click on the green, get in touch button. The bottom of the screen, you’ll find this and more podcasts on our site and the ability to start your journey and experience real connection. So relationship strengths and purpose. That is journey coaching. I’m John Y and we’ll talk again soon. Don: Thank you for listening tune in next time Jon: and make sure you like and subscribe. Visit firstname.lastname@example.org Don: and check us out on Facebook and Instagram. Jon: Start your own email@example.com The post Understanding Suicide appeared first on Journey Coaching.