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Instructional Redesign Podcast
37 minutes | 2 months ago
EP030: Interview with Jonathan Couser
Leading Creative Teams Cara and Joe speak with Jonathan Couser, founder of Arch Impacts, a firm dedicated to helping leaders move along the path toward leading legacies worth repeating not deleting. Jonathan shares his experience and advice around the art and science of leading a team of creative professionals. Jonathan on LinkedIn Book: Creative People Must Be Stopped The Crazy One – Podcast from Stephen GatesEpisode 69: How to fight imposter syndrome Connect with Cara & Joe Support the show LnDTees.com Learning & Development themed swag IRD.LnDTees.com Instructional Redesign podcast swag Music created by Jahzzar.
18 minutes | 3 months ago
EP 029: Matthew Confer
Joe Suarez interviews Matthew Confer who is VP of Strategy and Business Development at Abilitie (pronounced ability), an experiential learning company based in Austin, Texas. They discuss various aspects of leadership, decision making, and Matthew’s role at Abilitie facilitating leadership simulations. Matthew is also the the host of the Learn to Lead podcast which recently featured Cara North as a guest. Matthew on LinkedIn Matthew of Twitter (@matthewconifer) Matthew’s TEDx Talk Abilitie Learn to Lead podcast Cara North interviewed on Learn to Lead Connect with Cara & Joe Support the show LnDTees.com Learning & Development themed swag IRD.LnDTees.com Instructional Redesign podcast swag
36 minutes | 4 months ago
EP 028: L&D Jobs Series Part 2 – Confessions of an ID Hiring Manager
As part 2 of our learning & development jobs series, Cara North shares her recent experience assuming the role of a hiring manager. While every organization is different and “your mileage may vary,” the advice she provides should help L&D job seekers understand what to do, what not to do, and what a hiring manager may be expecting of job candidates throughout the hiring process. Resources shared: TLDC episode recording: Confessions Of An ID Hiring Manager Job search and career advice from Andrew LaCivita on YouTube TLDC Job Seeker Series Connect with Cara & Joe Support the show LnDTees.com Learning & Development themed swag IRD.LnDTees.com Instructional Redesign podcast swag Music created by Jahzzar. Episode Transcript: Joseph Suarez 0:01Welcome, everybody to the instructional Redesign podcast. This is our second part on our job seeker series. Last episode, I talked about the job seekers perspective. And today Cara is going to walk through the point of view of a hiring manager. It’s a process that she just went through in her new role as a learning and development manager. So, Cara, why don’t you talk about your experience? Cara North 0:25Okay, so I will tell you that, at least for me, I was probably as equally nervous as the job candidates, because I know what it’s like kind of being on the other side of the interview process. So what I thought I would kind of demystify and talk about today, with the caveat of your mileage may vary, it’s going to look different at different organizations. And I did go further into depth on this, I did also have a TLDC episode about it: Confessions of a Hiring Manager. So we’ll share the link to that as well. I think that will Lisa’s working on putting that up on YouTube. But before I even talk about the interview, let’s talk a little bit about how you get to the interview. So as you all can imagine, and hopefully appreciate when we have positions open, at least at my org, and then I’m sure other orgs as well, we get a lot of interest, and we get a lot of resumes. So for this position, I was really excited about it, obviously, I’m still kind of new to the company, and I’m looking to start building my team. And so I was really excited. And I wanted to share it everywhere. So when the job posting went live, I shared it on my LinkedIn, my Twitter, and then my own personal Facebook. And let me just say, Joe, I was a little bit surprised by some of the stuff that happened when I did that. So Case in point, I got a lot of people sending me their resumes, asking me to apply to the job for them. I got some people who applied for the job and then said, Hey, now that I applied for the job, can I schedule my interview now, but probably hands down, the most surprising thing that happened is I actually tweeted something along the lines of you know, just because I’m connected with you on social media, it doesn’t really entitle you to my time because I got inundated with just messages from people about I want to talk to you about this job. Blah, blah, blah. And it’s not that I didn’t want to talk to people, but it was just kind of the forcefulness and some people actually demanded my time. And so that’s kind of where I drew a line. So I tweeted about that. And it got picked up by a recruiter group on Facebook, who basically roasted me and cut me down pretty hard. And so that was really, really eye opening. Joseph Suarez 3:01Yeah, you know, it’s, it’s tough right now for a lot of people and the job market is tight. And that means that people have to be doing some things to stand above the competition. But there’s still a fine line between doing something that makes you stand out and behavior that kind of portrays yourself in a negative light as a job seeker, you’re not really in a position to demand anything, and you come across too many as a very friendly person. But that doesn’t give that person that perhaps is connected with you any more have a leg up than than anyone else, at the end of the day, it comes down to being qualified for the role. Cara North 3:37Right? Well, I appreciate that. Like I try to be as helpful as I can. But even I was kind of surprised by some of the behaviors. So I guess I’ll start by saying, you know, be kind to the hiring manager. I mean, this should kind of go without saying, but I did get some kind of nasty grams about the whole thing. Like, why aren’t you responding to me, I’m applying for your job, blah, blah, blah. And the reason that I didn’t feel comfortable responding to all that is, you know, my organization has a process in place for a reason, right? So the main purpose of me sharing it on social media, so it’s just something I wanted people to be aware of, and one of them to look at it, see if it would be a fit for them and then then apply for it. So the process that my organization and just say, you know, your mileage may vary. It may be different in other organizations, just putting that out there is you know, you apply for a position, and then we actually have a recruiter on staff at our organization, who goes through the amazing pile of resumes. And Joe, let me tell you, it is a pile because before this started, I was even thinking about oh my gosh, I can’t wait to go through the resumes and look at them. But then as the numbers kept growing and growing and growing, and my day to day, duties at work kept growing And growing and growing, I had the best intentions of going through, I just didn’t have time. And I was even encouraged by my supervisor to basically rely on our recruiter to do to do that for us. So as you can imagine the organization I work for, they’re not all like L&D people. So before this process started, I did have a conversation with the recruiter, she wanted to know more about like, what I was looking for and who I was looking for. So we kind of had like this little mini calibration session so she could understand what I was looking for. And so she could be looking for people. So the first step was you had to pass the through the recruiter. Joseph Suarez 5:42I’m glad you walked through that, and talked about the internal processes that go on behind the scenes after someone has applied for a job. It’s something that I talked about in detail in the fourth and last part of my job seeker series on TLDCast, I think I listed like 15 steps. And then I highlighted the three or four that are what is visible to a job seeker. And just to demonstrate all the things that are happening behind the scenes, after you apply for a job after you go through the different interviews. There’s a lot of stuff that happens, and I’m really glad that you highlighted the importance of a recruiter and their role, and why they’re necessary to help screen candidates, just from an efficiency standpoint, would it be more effective if the hiring manager could see every resume to make sure they’re not filtering out any viable candidates? Absolutely. But from an efficiency standpoint, it’s just not possible. And it’s gotten to the point in today’s world, where the recruiters don’t have enough time to look over things. And they have to rely on automated systems, what’s known as applicant tracking systems, ATS, they have to rely on the systems to filter out candidates that are deemed as not qualified. And then the recruiter has to look over the ones that are floating to the top as determined by some filtering criteria and some algorithms, and then those are the ones that go on to be screened by the recruiter. And then the ones that pass the screening, go on to an in person, quote, unquote, because it could be virtual interview, and then you know that that’s considered the second round. And then there could be a third round or possibly another one. So knowing all those things are happening behind the scenes, and knowing where you’re at in the process can really help you as far as just getting your sense of timing, and when you can follow up and just for someone to apply and then be like, why aren’t you responding to me, just demonstrates a complete lack of awareness of how the process works. And you know, if you’re not in HR, an HR professional, and you haven’t been exposed to this, you might not know how it works. Cara North 7:43I will tell you one thing, I didn’t even look at their resumes that they attached, if they sent me that message, I just deleted it. So if you’re that person, sorry, I didn’t look at your resume. Joseph Suarez 7:53And I actually had a situation recently, because my new team is growing. I’m not the hiring manager. But I wanted to see if I could find somebody myself so I just put something out on Twitter saying, hey, my team is growing. And if, if you have a good portfolio, and this or that, messaged me a little worried about what I would get back, and my fears were confirmed, I kind of had similar things is you people just coming out and saying, Oh, I have 25 years of experience in this and I look, and it’s really not related to what the job description says. And my favorite of all time, I just got a reply that just said yes. And I don’t know what that person thought I was supposed to do with that. But needless to say, they did not get the job. Cara North 8:42Ah, poor Yes, person, they’re probably still out there looking for the job. So that’s funny. But I just want to circle back real quick about a point that you made. And then I want to kind of continue the narrative or the process, so to speak. So you’re absolutely right, the recruiting function is something that I definitely have a newfound respect for. And our recruiter is completely underwater, with all the different things that she has on our plate. So we actually did as an organization, we are contracting with other recruiting firms as well. So they’ve also helped with the job search process. So after you get through the recruiter is interested in your resume. What happened then is basically that resume would then come to me, and I would take a look at your resume and judge it, harshly. Not really, I just want to see like what people were working with. And then if I liked the resume, then she would go ahead and do a phone screen. And so that was kind of the process that we did there. So the resumes that I liked, then she would reach out and do the phone screen. And then she would let me know how that phone screen went. If there were any kind of red flags or anything that she was concerned with, and then she actually set up The interview for us. So the way my org does it is we typically have panel interviews. The panel consists of the hiring manager who was me, and then also various stakeholders of the L&D function. So we had our communications manager on the panel had two other managers of their particular business functions that we work very closely with as well, on the panel. So that’s kind of how it started, we did our interviews via Microsoft Teams, because that’s the platform that we currently use. And the interview was also very interesting as well, we’ll put it put it that way, a lot of a lot of interesting things going on. Joseph Suarez 10:42So speaking of the interview process, from a hiring managers perspective, assuming that, you know, the candidate has passed the phone screen interview with the recruiter, and now they’re having an interview with you, in addition to making sure that this person is qualified for the role, what are the kind of things that you’re looking for in candidates? Cara North 11:01Great question. So for me a couple things. One, I don’t want a clone of me. So I know my orientation, what I look for my strengths and weaknesses. So I really look for people that have skillsets, beyond mine, and I look for people with experience that is different than mine. So case in point for this particular position, this is going to be a lot of development work, depending on you know, the various projects that we have coming in, and I definitely stronger in the ID side of the house, the curriculum development piece versus the development, I can do it, but it’s definitely not my strong suit. I’m definitely not a Joseph Suarez, we’ll put it that way. So I wanted somebody that I felt could come in and kind of have that strength out of the gate. So I really wanted to see somebody who complimented the skill set of me because even though I am the manager of the team, I also don’t just want to be sitting on the sideline, I still want to contribute. And I still want to add to the training experience. That’s that’s just my personality, I don’t want to sit on the sidelines. Second, I look for somebody who also is involved in the profession broadly. So I want to know, are you involved with your local ATD chapter? Or are you helping people find jobs right now? Or do you volunteer? I want to work with good humans. So I really look to see, you know, besides your work life, how else do you kind of keep up with like, what’s going on? And how do you give back to the world. And that’s just something that’s really important to me. And third, this is going to sound really hypocritical. But I’m not interested in where you went to school. I don’t care if you have a bachelor’s degree, a PhD, a graduate certificate. For me the litmus test is what can you do with it? So I really rely heavily on that portfolio review to see what your skills actually are. Joseph Suarez 13:10And you say, perhaps hypocritical of you, because you are a PhD candidate, correct? Cara North 13:15Correct. Yeah. Joseph Suarez 13:17Yeah. But again, you you make a valid point, that is great to have a PhD, but you really do need to have that work experience to back it up. You can only stand on on that degree and letters after your name, right? Cara North 13:29Correct. I do think that some programs maybe emphasize different areas. I think that a lot of graduates that I’ve talked to have a great theoretical lens. However, the technical application piece has been an area of opportunity for a lot of people I’ve talked to. Joseph Suarez 13:46So conversely, what are some things that candidates might do in the interview process or things they might say that rule them out? Cara North 13:53It was very evident to me that a lot of the candidates had no clue what our company did or even took the time to look up. me or anyone associated with the company. So you know, I find that to be a weakness because why are you interviewing for an organization you know nothing about you know, one person said something along the lines that they thought that we manufactured chocolate. That would be that actually be really cool. But no, sadly, we don’t manufacture chocolate. I don’t know where that came from. But it gave me Give me a cool giggle because I’m like, I want to be Willy Wonka. That sounds cool. Joseph Suarez 14:24I find that incredibly shocking, because my recommendation to people would be to have a sense of what the company does, how the role you’re applying for might fit into that before you’re even walking in to a call with a recruiter. And to get to the point where you’re talking to the hiring manager, and not know about the company that you’re about to potentially work at that just kind of boggles my mind. Cara North 15:00Well, mine too. But then, you know, let me let me flip it here. I do think that there is a lot of desperation right now for a lot of folks. And I know Joe, you always talk about keeping good records of what you applied for. And you know what the company does or whatever, it was very evident to me that this candidate was very kind of desperate just to get a job. And I think it was just an error and lapse in judgment that they just didn’t take the time because it was just like, oh, finally, I got an interview. Oh, what did I apply for again, and we’d already taken that job posting down, right? Because we were currently interviewing for to keep to stop from keep getting, you know, more applicants. So if they wouldn’t have saved that job posting, maybe not even remember our company, then it would be very hard for them to know what we did. But yeah, chocolate was. Chocolate was not it. Joseph Suarez 15:57To try and be helpful to people, if you do find yourself in the position where you applied to something months ago, and you go check back in the job description isn’t there, that’s probably something that you can ask the recruiter for. You can always email that recruiter questions later on, and ask them for the job description. And they should be happy to supply that. Cara North 16:15Yeah, definitely. One other thing that disqualifies people or gives me a red flag is if I hear the good old learning myths coming up in the interview. So had a candidate that in the first five minutes, told me about learning styles and explaining it to me, like I had no idea what it was, and also gave me their Myers Briggs. And so I was counting down the minutes to the end of that interview, because I knew that was somebody I didn’t want work with. Joseph Suarez 16:43And we’ve talked about learning this in a previous episode. And you are definitely not fond of things like Myers Briggs, nor are they well debunked learning styles. Cara North 16:51And then I guess I’ll go with one more. Know, like when your stock is kind of the highest if you’re asking for various things. And this is something that I there’s a guy on YouTube that I follow. And I know like when I decided I was leaving my previous institution, I was starting my job search. I mean, I’ve been there for seven years. So I was really kind of rusty, I guess in my whole job search, his name’s Andrew LaCivita, you can find him on YouTube, we’ll link in the show notes too. But one thing that he teaches is do not negotiate or ask for things until your stock is the highest. And I was really surprised by just what people would ask for before they even knew what we were thinking about things. So you know, some person wanted a astronomical salary right out of the gate. I’m like, it just, it’s just awkward. So you know, no, your know your worth, it’s great to ask for things, it’s great to make this your opportunity, but just know that it is definitely a mutual fit, right. So if it’s something that you’re asking for all these various accommodations, and, you know, you don’t know, if you see yourself there, then you know, maybe that’s not the best org for you. But you know, just rather gate asking for all these things, it was just like, Ah, you know, you, you might be somebody that might be difficult to work with. Joseph Suarez 18:26Yeah. And again, going back to putting yourself in the shoes of the hiring organization and the different people you’re talking to, in my experience, the time to make sure that you’re within the salary ranges during the recruiter call. Because if you’re not, they want to screen you out early on, they don’t want to get further in the interview process. And then you drop a huge figure, you know, that shouldn’t be a surprise. And then the other time to talk about salaries after you get an offer. And to do so in between, I think just kind of demonstrates a lack of awareness. Cara North 18:55Yeah, it’s it’s tough. And I want to get back to the to the interview real quick, because this is something that I think I learned more being on the hiring manager side. And again, this is your mileage may vary. So that may be the tagline of this particular podcast episode, but my organization does what’s called structured interviews, meaning that we’re going to give each candidate the exact same question. So candidate a gets the questions, candidate B gets the questions candidate C. And then what we’ll do is after we go through the interviewing process, we’ll be taking notes throughout the interview, of course, then we convene, the panel reconvenes, and then our recruiter actually is kind of leading this discussion. And then we rate you individually on your overall responses to those and then we get into discussions about how we rated you in various, you know, components. So, one pro tip and this is something that I learned when I was an Amazon. And something I still think has a lot of validity is when you answer a question, especially structured interviews, a lot of them are behavioral based. Two tips. One, usually, if it’s behavioral based, it will go back to the core values of the company. So in Amazon, all the behavioral questions, a lot of times were aligned to the Amazon leadership principles. So you can look those up ahead of time. And then look at those and think about maybe some questions that are stories or things that you can talk about for those. Same with my org. So it is aligned back to our core values, as a company. So really think about that on the front end. And then to when you’re answering a question from an interviewer, use the STAR method. And so STAR is situation, task, action and result. So if you can give your response in, you know, here was what the situation is, or here’s what the task I was given, here’s my action. Here’s what I did. And here was the result. It’s easier for the interviewer to write that down, simply. And it’s easier for them to follow what you’re saying instead of somebody meandering in a story that they did 25 years ago, that I’m not kidding you that our interviews, 45 minutes, one question took up almost 25 minutes of them telling us every minute detail of that story. And it was very painful. Joseph Suarez 21:17Yeah, I personally, I understand the benefits of asking behavioral based interview questions like that, I find them extremely difficult to answer. And in my experience, they’re very specific in what they ask. And I often find it difficult to find a situation in my past that matches that adequately, it almost puts me in a position where I need to either exaggerate or just come up and be like, Oh, yeah, and I Oh, it totally worked out well, and this and that. And I just hate being in that position, to where I either have to be like, I don’t really have a good example. But I would do this, which I think is the good way to pivot. If you can’t think of a good example, is to say, I know I can’t really but here’s a similar, something kind of similar, or here’s what I would do. I think that’s a good way to pivot better than lying, but I just hate being in that position where they want something very specific. And I don’t have an example. Cara North 22:17No, I think that’s absolutely a fair statement. And so that’s another thing that I will say is, just know that I’m nervous to on the other end, because I want you to have a good representation of the organization. Right? So I am way more forgiving the first couple of times, in the interview, the first couple of questions, and because I realize you’re nervous, and you know, even if you start kind of going down a rabbit hole, I have stopped people and said, Can you rephrase that for me? Or can you talk a little bit more about that kind of throwing you a bone. So that way, you are getting a little bit more comfortable? Because absolutely, Joe, you’re right, these questions are not easy to answer. But as far as again, comparing across, and that is the way that a lot of organizations have to do it. Joseph Suarez 23:09Yeah, I totally get why they do. And just one final piece of advice for people would be Google common behavioral based interview questions, and just come up with some pre prepared stories essentially, from your past that you can pull up and you’re ready to kind of go over in the STAR format, I went into one company that’s notorious for having a long and brutal interview process that is almost entirely behavioral based. And I had probably 20 different stories written out aligned to different areas of what that company saw as their governing principles. And I still really struggled with probably at least 50% of the questions they asked me it was a really brutal process. And it’s almost like you’re filtering candidates, in a way biasing yourself to hire a bunch of BS’ers. Cara North 23:59interesting your your went there, didn’t you? Yeah, no, I I can see that I can I can definitely see that. Because I do think that if you’re a good interviewer, so to speak, you you can get jobs, maybe over people that may have better technical acumen than you so I, I can see that I’m speaking of technical acumen. Let’s talk a little bit about portfolios, Joe. So I know you talked about portfolios in your episode on here talking about job seekers. So from a hiring perspective, what I’m looking for on a portfolio is I want to see a little bit of an alignment on your resume, the job description in your portfolio, meaning for example, if the job description says experience in Articulate Storyline, and you say on your resume, I’m experienced in Articulate Storyline, then, I think on your portfolio, I should see what, examples of Articulate Storyline. So great, great example here I had a portfolio that I got from a candidate. And they had on their resume that they had extensive Storyline experience, I did not see one piece of Storyline anywhere on their portfolio at all. And what they did have on there was templates of different things that I’ve seen. So that that was a no go, they didn’t make it any further because I had no evidence of their Storyline experience. And, Joe, I know that you’ve went through several interviews where you’ve had to do a work product myself, I try not to do that to people in the interview. And here’s why I am very sensitive to the fact that these products that we use in our profession are expensive. also realize if somebody is out seeking for a job, you’re not always employed, sometimes you are looking for a better opportunity. But a lot of people aren’t. And so I didn’t want to take having by take on the burden of spending money on a tool or, you know, signing up kind of violating terms and condition on their fourth or fifth trial of a product. Right. So I wanted to keep it more even playing field, and for me, the easiest way to do that was with a portfolio because I did want to be sensitive to what people may or may not have access to in this time. Joseph Suarez 26:25Yes, and I could go off on an entire tangent about making interview candidates do assignments that are could be used as actual work products, I think that’s on the company’s part, morally wrong, full stop, and it shouldn’t be done. I think it should basically be illegal to ask somebody to do work for free in that regard. And it puts job seekers in a tough position. And my only advice there would be, you have to decide at that point, if you’re willing to continue with the job process, or if you want to walk away. Cara North 27:00Um, I do also want to talk a little bit about just kind of requirements of a job. So on the job description that we had posted, it said very plainly, a portfolio is required to apply for this job. We had a candidate that had a great resume, had a great screen, and then before the live interview with me, they were to send their portfolio over at that time, they said, Oh, I don’t have a portfolio. Well, then why did you apply is my answer to that it says very bluntly, I need you need to have access to your portfolio. So I think it’s very risky. If you see something on there, that states you need a portfolio to apply Anyway, you do sometimes have lead time, of course, when you’re you’re applying for jobs, but for that candidate to very bluntly say no, I don’t have one that was a easy disqualification. Joseph Suarez 27:54And again, not to continually criticize these poor job candidates. But applying for a job and hiring people is it’s a lot like buying a house or making any kind of huge investment. But buying a house is a good analogy, in particular, because when you’re buying a house, you have like these small opportunities where you get to look at the house and inspect the house and you only get a few times do that before you have to decide if you’re going to just throw down a bunch of money and buy this house or not. And it’s the same thing with applying for a job and hiring people as a job seeker, you only get a few glimpses to see okay, is this an organization I want to work for? Is this a manager I want to work for? Is this a role that I want to do. And from the organization standpoint, they only get a few glimpses of what you would be like as an employee. So not being able to follow the basic directions in the job description is a huge indication of what kind of employee that’s going to be. Cara North 28:52Right. And to the point that you made about you know, them looking also at the organization. Another tip that I’ll give job seekers is, again, your mileage may vary is at the end of the day, it was my decision on who I selected. So Elan is the panel that I had assembled, really liked one candidate, they realized that at our organization, I am the learning and development expert. And so they defer to my choice on who I wanted to hire. So even though it’s really important to be polite and respectful to the panel, you really need to focus on dazzling that hiring manager. And to me, there’s no reason why you should go into the interview without knowing that name of that hiring manager beforehand. I even told our recruiter give people my name. Let them know who the hiring manager is because I think it’s really important, again for you to do your own due diligence, as Joe said, to see if I’m somebody that you would want to work with. You can look me up online and get a pretty good indication of who I am and make the determination if you want to continue. And I think I even put in, in jest maybe maybe not in jest on the post when I shared the job that this job does report to me and I realized that could be a deal breaker for some people. So do your own homework as well. Joseph Suarez 30:17Definitely agree with that. I don’t think there’s any reason why people shouldn’t at least be searching for folks on LinkedIn just to see who they’re dealing with. if for no other reason, I like to do it just to see the person’s face if I could before I went into the interview. But also, I want to see what their background is, especially the hiring manager, I want to see where they’re coming from and how long they’ve been at the company is as a great piece of information you get from from looking up their profile. On the flip side, the the job that I ultimately accepted, they did a lot of looking into what I was doing to a huge degree as going as far as to listening to the podcast that we have here and reading my tweets, I was asked in the interview process about some tweets, I had given months back about speaking openly about what I thought about kind of the state of eLearning, and things like that, and then learning experience design. So have to have those words, my own words kind of thrown at me and to be asked about them shows one that they really wanted to be invested in the person that they were hiring and know who they were hiring, which is awesome. And two that you should be kind of be careful and monitoring your own activity and making sure that you’re staying professional on all these social networks that you engage in. Cara North 31:32Yeah, I agree. And I’m definitely the hiring manager that is looking you up online. Joseph Suarez 31:36Well, excellent. Cara, thank you so much for just giving your perspective that you now have as a hiring manager, it’s definitely good to get that that perspective that you had. And hopefully, we’ve given some good tips to people today for interviewing and what things look like on the other side of the table. And hopefully, we weren’t too negative and too critical of applicants. But I really think it behooves people to kind of learn from others mistakes, and to make sure that that they don’t repeat those. Cara North 32:02Yeah, absolutely. And remember that you wouldn’t have made it to the interview if you weren’t qualified. So be kind to yourself in this whole journey. I know that there’s a lot of people that are still struggling and looking. So give yourself a pat on the back for even making it this far. And even if it doesn’t work out for this particular organization, it should be a feather in your hat, it should give you motivation to continue forward knowing that, you know, you did have the right skill set and background to make it to the job interview. So celebrate the small victories. Joseph Suarez 32:40If you get far in the interview process and ultimately doesn’t work out. I know how demoralizing that can be. But just kind of pick yourself up and keep going. No matter how many times it happens. You might listen to the advice we’re giving today and in the past episode, and think well, that’s that’s fine and well for Joe and Cara. But you’d be you might be surprised by how many times I got to like the final round. And ultimately, they went with somebody else. So just hang in there. I know. It’s tough, but eventually something will come along this right for you. Cara North 33:12Yeah, same. I actually thought before COVID hit, I was going to move to the state of Utah for a job. Like I was that close to getting another role. And then when it didn’t work out, I was devastated. And I let that eat me away for a couple of days. So go get you some ice cream. And, you know, feel free to be in your feelings for a while. But again, just know that somebody out there wants you once your talents and you can really contribute something great to this profession. So just hang in there. Joseph Suarez 33:42Yeah, I like to say, you know, give yourself an hour an afternoon, not more than one day to just kind of sulk around if you need that. But right after that. You got to pick things back up and hit things hard again. Cara North 33:53Joe, I need more than a day to finish the ice cream. I mean, come on. Joseph Suarez 33:57Well know how much ice cream you’re buying. But geez. Cara North 33:59oh, no, no, I’m not going there. Joseph Suarez 34:02All right. Well, thanks, everybody for listening to this episode. We’re so happy to be recording again and releasing episodes and we hope you found it useful. So signing off, this is Joseph Suarez. Cara North 34:15And I’m Cara North, thank you so much for listening. Joseph Suarez 34:22Here at the instructional redesign podcast, we have a team of the world’s best data scientists constantly analyzing our listenership data. And after months of painstaking analysis and computations, they have determined that our listeners could use some help in the fashion department. Now I know what you’re thinking. But Joe, I think I have a fine fashion sense to which I say denial is a perfectly natural human response. You see, I was there myself once lacking a certain learning and development vibe to my wardrobe, but my fortune changed when I discovered all the swag available at lndtees.com. There I found a fine selection of fun and snarky lmd themed items like t shirts that took my look from adult a daring and coffee mugs that start my mornings off with a smile. Now I’m the envy of every zoom call I attend. That’s what’s in store for anyone bold enough to venture to lndtees.com. That’s the letters L-N-D-T-E-E-S dot com, no ampersand because the internet is allergic to special characters. And if you go to IRD.LnDTees.com you’ll find Instructional Redesign podcast swag, take a look and consider helping to support and promote the show with a purchase. Both links will be available in the show notes for this episode, or you can take matters into your own hands and type LnDTees.com into your web browser of choice.
29 minutes | 5 months ago
EP 027: L&D Jobs Series Part 1 – Advice for Job Seekers
After his recent experience finding a new job in 2019 and being let go in 2020, Joe Suarez decided to turn his misfortune into opportunity and share his lessons learned with others in the learning & development field. That kicked off a 4 part TLDC Job Seeker series. This episode of the podcast is a summary of his presentations along with helpful interjections and resources shared by co-host Cara North. Resources mentioned: TLDC Job Seeker Series Articulate’s eLearning Heroes Challenges Kristin Anthony’s GoDesignSomething.co Learning Guild’s 2018 Global Salary & Compensation report Devlin Peck’s 2020 Instructional Designer Salary Report Simplyhired.com – job search site with estimated salary ranges Connect with Cara & Joe Support the show LnDTees.com Learning & Development themed swag IRD.LnDTees.com Instructional Redesign podcast swag Music created by Jahzzar. Episode Transcript: Cara North 0:01Today on instructional redesign podcast, we’re gonna be talking jobs, jobs, and more jobs with Joe Suarez. So if you missed Joe’s series on it TLDCast, he had a wonderful four part series about seeking jobs during this time. And he has a lot of great sage advice, pandemic or no pandemic of great things that you should be doing in your job seeking journey. And today, what we’re going to do is we’re just going to do a quick recap of some of the things that Joe talked about, see if he still recommends a lot of the same things he talked about a few months ago, and maybe also talk about the future and what that potential looks like. That sounds like a plan to you, Joe. Joseph Suarez 0:48That definitely sounds like a plan. Let’s do it. Cara North 0:51Alright, let’s go. Joseph Suarez 0:53Alright. So as Cara mentioned, I did a four part series on TLDC, around job seeking. And, you know, part of the reason I did this is because I went through a month long process in both 2019 and 2020, to find a job. And I was hoping the the 2019, one would have would have stuck a little longer. But unfortunately, I was only enrolled for five months. And they had to lay some of us off because of the financial impacts of the pandemic. So I found myself looking for a job again. And I realized that in that moment, that I was in a better position than most I had just gone through this, I felt very confident that I was going to be able to either find something, another full time job or be able to just start freelancing become full time self employed. But I knew others weren’t in such a strong position. And I wanted to do something about that. And I figured I could share some some of what I know, with people. And ultimately, I landed on doing the TLDC series. So to start things off, I just want to look at things very big picture and just open with a very simple, I don’t mean it to be condescending, but just ask the question, what is the job. And I think it’s important to open with that, and understand that a job is basically a contract between two parties, an employer and an employee. So the employee agrees to perform some specified tasks or duties for the employer. And in return, the employee is given some compensation. And this is a contract that can be ended by either party at any time, obviously, the employer can can quit and leave the role, the employer can let the person go. And as long as they’re following the laws and regulations in whatever locality they’re in, that’s perfectly fine. Obviously, what happened to me was, I was let go during the pandemic, and part one of my series was just talking about my experience, but also what others can do, if they suspect they might be about to go through the same thing, and what are the warning signs to see if perhaps they’re about to be laid off. Also, I gave some advice for people for what they can do during the layoff, which controlling their emotions and listening for key details that the HR representative or the manager that’s letting the person go would would give out, and then also what to do afterwards how to move on and kind of pivot into something new and in turn, what could be a negative thing into a possible positive opportunity. So that was part one. And then in further on in the series, what I wanted to go a little bit further into is actually searching for jobs and my process for doing that. So when we’re searching for jobs, so much of the process is focused on us, right? We’re asking questions of ourselves, like, Okay, how should I write my resume? Do I have enough things in my portfolio? Or do I need a portfolio? Am I what the hiring manager is looking for? What relevant work experience do I have? So we’re very inwardly thinking, and then the the artifact that we create, the main artifact is our resume, which is this document that’s all about us. So it’s, it’s really easy to fall in the trap of thinking, Okay, this is all about me and presenting myself in a good light, which it is on the one hand, but on the other hand, it’s really about putting yourselves in the shoes of the prospective employer and what their needs are, and what their internal hiring processes are, and you know, what their needs are to fill the role that they have open. So I put together a cheesy little thing that I called the hierarchy of needs. And that’s hire spelled h-i-r-e, pun fully intended. And I meant it to be similar to Maslow’s hierarchy of needs. So if you’re not familiar, that’s kind of the diagram of that is like a pyramid. And at the bottom are your core survival skills like you need air to breathe water, food, shelter and things like that just to live but then moving up the pyramid you have your your higher level needs, like sense of belonging, and ultimately becoming a self actualized human being. So in the same manner, we can kind of create a pyramid for both us as job seekers and that hiring organization. So as the job seeker, the applicant, our pyramid at the bottom will most likely have compensation as our base need for a job. And it might be different for different people. But generally, it’s probably going to be something where in the middle, it’s like you want your career growth and development. And then at the top of the pyramid, you want your sense of fulfillment, or to satisfy your passion. And then on the hiring organization side, their pyramid at the base is a little different, because they want somebody that’s qualified for the job, first and foremost, that’s their pyramid base. And then from there, they want to make sure that this person is professional, that they’re going to show up on time and be can be somebody that is relied upon, and then at the top of the pyramid, probably, they want to make sure that this person is a good fit for the company, that they’re going to be somebody that’s going to become an asset to the organization over time. Alright, so the reason I brought up those two pyramids is just to kind of keep in mind that your needs don’t necessarily reflect the needs of the organization. But as best as you can, you want to align those as much as possible. So for example, if your pyramid has career growth on there, and you want to, let’s say, grow into a leadership position at some point, and the hiring organization’s goals are to find somebody that they can grow and advance up in the organization over time, then your needs align. And you can come across as very authentic in the interview process by asking questions that demonstrate that your needs align in that regard. So that’s just one example of why it’s important to kind of make your your wants and desires in the interview process known. But also make sure that the fact that you’re meeting the expectations of the role shine through above all else. Cara North 6:46So Joe, hopefully, we can add both of those hierarchies in our show notes where people can also see them. But if I could interject real quickly, I wanted to circle back to what you were saying in that first series and thinking about, you know, what is a job and kind of where someone fits in that, by far, the best career advice I’ve ever received. And something I wish I would have gotten earlier in my career is knowing that you work for you and not an organization. So flipping your mentality from thinking about I work at ABC Company, to I am an instructional designer and ABC company as my client, I cannot tell you just flipping your mindset, how much different that I look at things now. And how much more kind of hope and control that I personally feel over my own career. And I’m always looking for other opportunities. And I’m really seen it in a way of selling myself. And I wish that was something that I have thought of before earlier in my career. But now that I’m kind of in the middle of it, it’s really a mentality that I love sharing with people. And it’s I think it’s opened a ton of opportunities for me as well. Joseph Suarez 8:06Excellent point. I think our goal is job seekers, obviously, is to constantly demonstrate that we are the best candidate for the role. But like you’re saying, we also need to keep in mind that at the end of the day, we’re still our core selves. It’s like that saying, do we live to work? Or do we work to live right? And what you’re saying fits into the latter category? Cara North 8:28Yeah, I definitely agree with that. But I think that oftentimes, especially if you’re working in a job, where you might not have as much autonomy, or you feel like you’re more of an order taker, right, I think we’ve all kind of been been there, it can be really hard to kind of see on the other side of things. A lot of times, especially right now, a lot people may feel well, I’m just grateful to have a job, even if they’re miserable in the middle of it. So don’t let that discourage you know, your worth, know what you bring to the table, and always be looking for that next opportunity if you’re not being fulfilled with the organization that you’re at. Joseph Suarez 9:05Absolutely. And and these might be questions and considerations that people might not be asking right now, or might either be in a situation where they feel like they can’t move or don’t want to, but I think most people are going to be at a point in their career down the road where they’re going to need to find a different job or have a strong desire to. And these types of things that I’m highlighting here in this episode are going to be relevant down the road as well. So moving on, I also want to talk about resumes and portfolios. It’s a big part of the job seeking process. They’re the main artifacts that you have. Another way to look at all this is that as a job seeker, whether you like this or not, you’re basically a salesperson whose goal is to make just one sale and that’s of yourself. And your resume, your LinkedIn profile, your portfolio, whatever personal branding, you may have all of that is like your marketing material with the intention of using that to get your foot in the door for an interview where you make your sales pitch, I like to think of it from that perspective, because all these little rules that people say, and people get hung up on about, like, how long does my resume need to be? Is it okay? If it goes over one page? Or do I need to keep it all on page? And how should I format it and what should I put on it and this and that. That’s important to kind of follow those guidelines. But the end of the day, I feel it’s safe to break those if you have a good reason to if you think breaking those rules makes you a stronger candidate or makes you shine through in some way. I say go for it, you don’t have to follow these archaic rules. And I got to the position where I told myself, if I’m weeded out, because I don’t have a one page resume or use a different formatting. Or if somebody weeds me out for those archaic things, there’s a good chance that I don’t even want to work for an organization like that anyway, so I’m okay with that. So then moving on to portfolios, if we consider the resume is like your opportunity to talk the talk, the portfolio is your opportunity to demonstrate that you can walk the walk that you can do the things that you’re claiming to do and have done on your resume is an opportunity to show that you have the proper design skills that you can do, perhaps some problem solving creativity, project management, collaboration with others, perhaps demonstrate a customer centric mindset. And for sure, show off just your overall design process. So as many of those that are relevant as you can highlight, and perhaps more, I definitely think the portfolio is a great opportunity to do that. And it just speaks in a way that your resume and even your interview can’t and it can go much farther than that I think people give it credit for, so I strongly urge people to have a portfolio. Cara North 11:53Hey, Joe, what are some of your Joseph Suarez portfolio tips? Can you give them a couple of tips to see if maybe they want to refurbish their portfolio? Or what if they’re starting from scratch? What are a couple tips you’d be willing to give? Joseph Suarez 12:06Absolutely. So my first tip is resist the urge to just have a series of thumbnail images. We’re talking about L&D jobs, you’re not a photographer. So you may find a nice template. If you’re using a hosting service, like Squarespace or something, that there’s a portfolio template where it’s a bunch of thumbnails of images, and you click on it and it pops something up. That might be great if you’re trying to be a National Geographic photographer. But that’s not the kind of jobs that we’re applying for. We’re applying for jobs and using our portfolio to demonstrate that we are competent designers. So in addition to a nice visual that demonstrates something, you also want to back that up with some descriptions. So basic descriptions, like what was this project? What was your role in the project. And if we’re looking at things that you didn’t do 100% of like, if you had some help with the content, and you were just the eLearning developer, you want to specify that somehow you don’t want to intentionally or unintentionally try and pass off the work of others as your own. And that goes as far as if you downloaded a free template from somewhere in a tool like Articulate Storyline, you don’t want to be unintentionally showing that you have amazing design chops when that you don’t. And you may even want to go as far as creating basically a case study of your best work. It can just be one, maybe two or three in depth summaries of your best projects, something you’re really proud of. And you can really go into detail about how the project came about how you used perhaps like your unique design process or some creativity, whatever you brought to the table is what you want to highlight in that case study and how the final project was reached, maybe even mention some roadblocks or setbacks that occurred in the projects and limitations and how you worked around those. All that gives an employer a glimpse into how you work, which in my opinion is worth so much more than just a few bullet points on your resume or even one sentence or two sentence description on a thumbnail. One more thing and I know Cara is very opinionated about this as well is a lot of people have the feedback but everything I’ve done in the past is proprietary and I can’t share it. And I’ll be burned at the stake for even trying. So how on earth do I make a portfolio? I know Cara’s really passionate about that. So what would you say to those people care? Cara North 14:27First of all, I would say think about this as an expression of you as a person. I think that in your portfolio, you can really build out maybe a dream project that you’ve had. And I know Joe on your portfolio. One thing that I love and I’ve actually referred other people to and I don’t know if you still have it on there or not was Carl’s Clunkers. You remember that one? I like it because it’s got humor, and it’s got the dry humor. That is definitely Joe Suarez and so I think that’s why I like it. That example so much because I know us a person and your personality comes through it. Right? So I don’t know why people get so hung up with? Well, it’s proprietary. It’s all that I have. I know, again, as a hiring manager, that is something that I look for. So if you have something proprietary on there, I don’t see anything stating that you have permission to share it, I’m probably not going to pass you on because our nondisclosure agreement and my organization is very complex, very rigid. And I don’t want to have my head on a platter if you work for us, and you leak our industry secrets, right? So to me, it’s an ethical thing. But if you’re looking and you don’t have any of those creative Mojo, that’s fine website that I highly recommend people to check out two of them. One is the Articulate e-learning heroes challenges. Even if you don’t use articulate software, you can still get a design prompt to think about the other is Kristin Anthony’s godesignsomething.co. So go there, and she’s got some great examples of an audience a prompt for you, and even list out some inspiration for you to think about to build out something Joseph Suarez 16:15Totally agree. And those are definitely some great resources. So just just to be clear, like we’re not saying that it’s not a limitation, it definitely is. But it’s not insurmountable by any means. There are tons of ways to get around it. The first is if you have access to the original source files, and you maybe you can extract something that has absolutely no proprietary information in it whatsoever. And if you can get permission to share that then great. If not, is it something that can be repurposed into something that has absolutely no connection at all with the employer. So one of the things that is in my portfolio is a comic book type eLearning course where I had some company specific things described in there, I just changed that out to Star Wars references, like whatever works, it’s like I said, it’s a challenge, but it’s not insurmountable. And the thing I like to say is that looking for a job can be your full time job in itself. And the people that really hunker down and find creative ways to make sure that they rise to the top are the people that get hired. So you kind of got to just put in the extra effort and make it happen somehow. Okay, so moving on to the actual job search itself and looking for jobs, I think there are two different strategies that I want to go over. The analogy I’m using here is casting a net like you were fishing, you can cast a wide net or a narrow net. And I think a lot of people whether they know it or not default to casting a wide net. And what that looks like is they’re basically applying to everything that they see that they think they could be qualified for, and hoping that they get a bite. And if they get multiple bites multiple responses, then they can choose the one that they like best. That’s fine, that works. And if you’re just starting out, and you’re not sure, necessarily what you want to do, that might be a good strategy. But what I recommend is figuring out the ideal job that you want to work and cast a narrow net towards that. And then if you’re not finding any open roles, or you’re not getting any responses, when you apply to those roles, that you slowly expand out your net, so that the end result is hopefully as close as possible to the ideal job that you want to have. Now what that requires is having a good sense of what your ideal job is. And I think by answering some questions, you can kind of get a sense of what you really want. So examples of these questions are, what would you like your ideal job title to be? Do you want to be a learning experience designer versus an instructional designer? Do you want to be just a straight elearning developer or you want something more specific, like virtual reality, or maybe learning game developer or something like that? So these are more niche, but then again, we’re casting a narrow net, right? Are you looking to be on the cutting edge? Or are you kind of okay, for something more steady and predictable? And then just kind of logistics of the job? What kind of organization? Are you looking for large, small, what business or segment or sectors? You know, is it higher ed, corporate, healthcare, automotive, financial sector, you know, those types of things? And just the the type of work? Is it full time part time contract freelance, what are you looking for? And obviously, you want to think about your salary as well. What’s your ideal range that you want being realistic, and basing things on the market value of where you’re at and your experience? And I also like to have what I call walk away figure, which is taking assessment of your personal finances and what’s the bare minimum that you can get by on and having a little bit of breathing room added on top of that, what does that look like from an annual salary perspective? That’s what I call your walkaway figure that you’re unwilling to work for any less than that, Cara North 20:04Joe, I know that money is a sensitive topic to a lot of people. But I also think that it’s an important topic. So I just want to circle back. So let’s say for example, you are wanting to work as a higher education ID, if you’re looking to do higher ed, this is something that you may or may not know, is all salaries at public institutions are searchable. So you should be able to go in, if there’s not a figure listed on that job description, you should be able to go to the institution, type in instructional designer, and get a good sense of the range of what people are currently being paid in higher ed, to make the determination if that’s a good figure for you. And as far as like a corporate salary goes, not the best. But sometimes you can get some information on Glassdoor. I know the Learning Guild has a salary calculator, as well as a salary report that they put out, I believe, every year and you don’t have to pay anything for it, I think you do have to log in and get a free Learning Guild account. But you should have access to that. And that is just basically a benchmark survey that they send out to try to see what the market is. And I know also this year, Devlin Peck actually rolled out a salary survey. So I don’t know if he’s getting ready to post the results of that or not. But I know that that’s something that he was also advertising as well. So do your homework. As far as trying to figure out what they’re currently being paid. I know, depending on where you’re located at and the org, pay is just weird, right, Joe? I mean, it kind of fluctuates all over the place. Joseph Suarez 21:43It really does, it’s really tough to kind of figure those things out. Those are great resources that you mentioned, another one, depending on the job board that you’re using, you might be able to see that information as well. For example, simplyhired.com is one that unless it looks like unless the employer specifically says not to it will list the estimated salary range that it thinks is for the role. And I think most often that’s actually determined by what the employer is entering behind the scenes for what the salary range is. But all these questions that I just went through to kind of find your ideal job, the answers to many of those including salary and the type of work you want to do, the timing the type of job as far as full time, part time, things like that, those become your filtering criteria when you’re searching for jobs on job boards, whether that be Simply Hired, indeed, as another one, or if you’re just doing it through LinkedIn, those become your filtering criteria. And then you can also use keywords in your search. So for example, we mentioned virtual reality and learning experience design, these become your your keywords in your search to find those ideal roles. And together, this is kind of how you start to cast your now that you’re applying for those jobs that are right in your wheelhouse that that you want to work for, in addition to just straight applying for jobs, the phrase, it’s more about who you know, than what you know, definitely comes into play. So it’s behooves everyone to work on their network and grow their network and leverage their network. And like we’ve said previously, growing your network is just as much about giving as it is about taking, if not more, so. So I strongly encourage everyone when they are being active on things like LinkedIn, or maybe some slack groups or other places that they’re networking online. Keep that in mind that it’s not about just asking for things, it’s about giving in return as well. And that has a paradoxical way of coming back and giving more in return than you give. Cara North 23:53I love that. I think that’s a great, great tip, especially because I know that that is the number one piece of advice that I wish I would have known earlier in my career is to network and really get your name out there. And you will find hopefully, what Joe and I have found that most folks in this profession are just real kind and open, and really want to see everyone succeed. So don’t be afraid to reach out to people. You might be pleasantly surprised on the response that that you get. So these have been amazing tips. Joe, what is the last tip you want to give for folks out there seeking jobs right now? Joseph Suarez 24:31Well, I have one more tip related to networking. And then I have a final piece I just want to walk through my process for how I keep track of everything that I’m applying for. And then we’ll kind of wrap this episode up. So my last piece of advice on LinkedIn and other networking social networks is to recognize them for what they are LinkedIn being the biggest obviously, for whatever reason, they’ve decided that it’s more beneficial for them to act as a social network and many people find it to be discouraging and off putting and kind of toxic in some regards. So if you’re engaging in it just my advice would be to find a way to contribute meaningfully rather than just adding noise, and generating activity and engagement just to satisfy some logarithm, don’t bother playing that game. There’s other better ways to get noticed. Then, like Cara mentioned in a previous episode, being that guy that basically had nothing but a helmet and his underwear on like, like, come on, you can be better than that no matter what you’re doing, and promoting for yourself. So like I mentioned, I want to talk about how I keep track of everything when I’m applying for jobs, because it can get to the point where you you’ve applied to a lot of jobs at a lot of different points during your search. So you want to keep track of all of that, whether it’s in just a spreadsheet or a simple word document, I personally use OneNote. And what I do is, every time that I apply for a job, I just write a little note. And it’s basically bullet point that just says the name of the place that I applied to the date, I applied a link to the job description, and any salary information I can glean. And I just hang on to that information. And then if I’m engaged by a recruiter, I quickly pull that information up, and I start a new note where I can start to keep track of everything, I have a list of generic questions that I like to ask in different phases of the interview process, especially in the room, when a recruiter calls you to screen you. Those are very helpful because you really don’t need you. You’re basically always asking the same kind of things like why is this roll open? And can you tell me the salary range? Which is a good question to ask? And I’m kind of always surprised when I’m just flat out told the salary range, I always think it should be some kind of secret. But if you if you’re the first one to bring up the topic, yeah, you’ll probably get an answer in return. So that’s a good question to ask. And so we basically, as of now gone through three parts of my four part job seeking series that I put out on TLDCast. The last one was around interviewing, but I think this is a good place to stop. We have another episode that’s going to follow this where Cara is going to talk mainly about her perspective as being on the other end of things as the hiring manager, because she recently went through a process where she had to hire someone and was in that position. So stay tuned for her perspective on that. Cara North 27:24Yeah, good stuff. And that all this is good stuff. And I really hope that it’s it’s able to help people. But of course, we want to hear from you too. So what are some of your best tips when it comes to finding jobs? Do you have a process? Do you have a hierarchy of needs yourself? We’d love to hear you talk a little bit more about that. So connect with us. We’d love to hear from you. So tune in next time for a different perspective on this from a hiring manager point of view. And thanks so much for listening. I’m Cara North. Joseph Suarez 27:56and I’m just Suarez. Thanks for listening. Here at the instructional redesign podcast, we have a team of the world’s best data scientists constantly analyzing our listenership data. And after months of painstaking analysis and computations, they have determined that our listeners could use some help in the fashion department. Now I know what you’re thinking. But Joe, I think I have a fine fashion sense to which I say denial is a perfectly natural human response. You see, I was there myself once lacking a certain learning and development vibe to my wardrobe, but my fortune changed when I discovered all the swag available at lndtees.com. There I found a fine selection of fun and snarky L&D themed items like t-shirts that took my look from adult a daring and coffee mugs that start my mornings off with a smile. Now I’m the envy of every zoom call I attend. That’s what’s in store for anyone bold enough to venture to lndtees.com. That’s the letters L-N-D-T-E-E-S dot com, no ampersand because the internet is allergic to special characters. And if you go to IRD.LnDTees.com you’ll find Instructional Redesign podcast swag, take a look and consider helping to support and promote the show with a purchase. Both links will be available in the show notes for this episode, or you can take matters into your own hands and type LnDTees.com into your web browser of choice.
24 minutes | 6 months ago
EP 026: 2020 Catch Up with Cara and Joe
After a several month long hiatus, Cara North and Joe Suarez are back to bring listeners up to speed on what they have been up to, how their job statuses have changed, and announce new episodes and LnDtees.com. It’s a swag shop for fun and snarky learning and development themed items and apparel. TLDC Job Seeker Series hosted by Joe Part 1: Moving On After Being Let Go Part 2: Searching & Applying for L&D Jobs Part 3: Resumes & Portfolios (sorry for poor audio) Part 4: Interviews DevLearn 2020 LnDTees.com Learning & Development themed swag IRD.LnDTees.com Instructional Redesign podcast swag Connect with Cara & Joe Support the show Music created by Jahzzar. Show Transcript: Coming soon
40 minutes | 10 months ago
EP 025: Interview Ankit Shah
In this episode Cara sits down to converse with Ankit Shah, M.Ed who, as you will soon find out, is extremely passionate about diversity and inclusion (D&I). You can connect with Ankit on LinkedIn. Note: This conversation was recorded months before the major inflection point on race that has occurred across the United States. For another, more recent conversation between Cara and Ankit, check out the 7/1/20 TLDC Episode: How to Have Conversations About Race at Your Workplace. Connect with Cara & Joe Support the show Music created by Jahzzar. Show Transcript: Cara North 0:00Today, I am super excited to introduce to you all my friend Ankit Shah, who works here at The Ohio State University with me. And through our friendship, I have learned so much from him about diversity and inclusion. And I really felt that it was necessary for him to share some of his insights with you all. I really think you’ll get a lot out of the today’s episode. Ankit, thank you so much for being here. Ankit Shah 0:26Well, thank you for having me, Cara, Cara North 0:27of course. So can you share a little bit about your background? Ankit Shah 0:31Absolutely, absolutely. So I’ve been fortunate that in my entire career, I have been in education sector, starting with so I did my undergraduate and early child education. And after that I worked in all across k 12. So whether it’s a public private charter, and I’ve also worked in Nevada, North Carolina, and Ohio. And so within those sectors, I worked with lots of underserved underrepresented populations in K 12. So I feel like that D&I has been part of my blood pretty much my entire career. And then around 2011, I went and got my first master’s degree in higher education, administration, Student Affairs. And because the university that I went to had a really good program to help me learn about different institutional types, and so I do a lot of assistantships and internships across lots of different universities. And in that time, I’ve covered so many different diverse areas where there was student success and retention, academic advising, career coaching, research and assessment, those sorts of things. And after graduation, I did my first few years in career coaching, but even in my time and career coaching, I worked at two liberal arts. I worked at a community college and now I’m going to big 10 at The Ohio State. So in these populations that I got to serve, I serve veterans to residential to students with lots of different types of disabilities. You Name it. And in that time and indecent issues types, I literally look at the lens of P 20. And I’ve been fortunate that my career has allowed me to be all these different spaces. And currently I happen to be working at Ohio State as a career consultant in the alumni Career Management Office, where I served multi generational alumni across the age across the industry. And it’s been amazing to see how now I’ve covered the entire lifespan. And the diversity equity inclusion has been part of my role the entire time and absolutely loving it. So knowing me, I’m a learner at strengths, I’m not done learning. And so I’m in my second graduate degree at Ohio State studying workforce development and education, but specializing in Adult Education and Human Resource Development. My current position has really taught me what it is to work with so many different types of people. And at the end, we’re building relationships right? But all the different identities and especially having five generations in the workplace, how do we be your authentic self? And how do we bring who we are to work is driving me to be even more D&I space as I continue to do this work. Cara North 3:12I love it. And I have to say, I can totally vouch for again, everything that he said he is one of the most energetic people I think I’ve ever met. And I like to think I have a lot of energy. But he definitely is beating me in that department. And one thing that I’d like to just talk about real quickly, is the way that we met. Actually, I have the Master’s in workforce development. And he reached out to me on LinkedIn and said, Hey, I see you have this degree. We work at the same institution. Can we have lunch? And exactly like he said about the relationships. That’s how we formed our relationship. And we’ve been friends ever since. And one thing that he said to me that has stuck with me, and I really want him to unpack this, especially for our listeners. He asked me one day I think we were at Danatos. Yeah, we were Danatos.. And he said, Cara, he said, Why is diversity and inclusion separate from learning and development? And I looked at him and I said, I don’t know. Like, I’ve never thought of that. But I’m so glad, again, through our friendship has really opened my eyes to a lot of these issues. So I’m curious, how do you set those parameters? How do you operationalize what diversity and inclusion is like, what does that mean to you? Ankit Shah 4:30Absolutely. I really appreciate this question for so many reasons, right? Having been in education sector, my entire professional career, where we do diversity, equity inclusion work in pockets, right, and we do this one program. So we have this one event and, and we kind of check it off our checkboxes. But they the way I think, diversity, equity inclusion is because it’s in everything we do. It needs to be holistically integrated in all of our operations and and how we connect with people. Right? So then it’s not this one off thing that we do. It’s continuous, right? It’s in our forefront. And how do we think about, especially now that we have these five generations in the workplace, right? So many different upbringing, so many backgrounds, so many diversity, diversity related information, continuous movement? How do we make the best of this and the current workforce, right? It’s we need to realize our constituents and who we are working with is changing. The demographics are changing, the workforce is changing. And if you really want to keep D&I at the forefront, it’s got to be in your strategic plans, which I know some of the education institutions have done, but then how do you implement it in everything you do? And that takes a lot of effort, right? And it’s very conscious. And what do you do to make that happen? is okay, how are we talking to leaders? How are leaders impacting those decision making that really see who they’re serving, but as well as who are their employees within the organization that are also being served in the D&I lens. So, in a long story short, we really need to build that in in our daily lives. And not just one program or one event, if that makes sense. Cara North 6:22It totally does. And I feel like this is something that a lot of companies and organizations probably give lip service to, right, they probably have a statement somewhere on a website, along with that mission value that nobody knows what their company is, a lot of times, it’s hidden in kind of a lot of the stuff that people don’t read. So if this is something that somebody wants to learn more about, especially in this learning development space, let’s say I’m a brand new instructional designer, I’ve been asked to build an E learning module about I don’t know sexual harassment. Okay, let’s roll with that because that’s right, everyone’s favorite topic, right? Ankit Shah 7:03Absolutely! Cara North 7:05So what are some things? What are some pitfalls they might fall into if they don’t consider diversity and inclusion? Like what are some things that people need to be aware of as they’re starting to build out these learning experiences? Ankit Shah 7:18No, absolutely. It’s I think when we think from it, once again, let’s, to me, everything comes back to people, right? Because we have become, our technology has skyrocketed, right. And we progressed so much. But I think overall, we’re losing all the time is consistent, human touch, right? And when we’re talking about people, we’re talking about emotions, right? We’re talking about even though I know in many workplaces, we want to like, hide those emotions. That’s not talked about it right. But are we being our authentic self, when we’re talking about that? I don’t think so. So the pitfalls are few, right? So one to me is okay, if we’re not going to consider If D&I is not at the forefront, and if it’s one of the strategic plan tactic, so then are we just looking into check it off and be done? Or are we actually looking into implement it and what we do every day? Number two is think about who are your stakeholders or constituents? Right? For example, in my organization currently, you know, we serve these technically 560,000 alumni, you know, that Ohio State serves? Well, our programmatic efforts have been pretty much very similar for a long time. So if we want to engage further with these diverse demographics, right, and I’m not just talking about race and gender, right, I’m really talking about inclusivity, right? race, gender, sex, sexual orientation, ability, all of these spaces. Well, you have to go where they are. You have to understand their needs, right? So if we’re going to think, oh, if diversity and inclusion, are these three things, and we’re not consistently measuring, or assessing, what are the actual needs by doing different type of research, right? Because I think what we’re good about doing is sending out many, many surveys. And we know the razor. It’s a fatigue right now, many people are filling them out, there’s too many. So meeting people where they are. So sometimes you have to go outside of your c
26 minutes | a year ago
EP 024: Interview Betty Dannewitz
In this episode, Cara has a great conversation with self-proclaimed immersive experience designer, Betty Dannewitz. Betty’s passion is to help people become better humans and believes innovative technology has an HUGE role in making that happen. Since this episode was recorded, she’s started her own excellent podcast, If You Ask Betty. Check it out. Connect with Betty (ifyouaskbetty on social media) Connect with Cara & Joe Support the show Music created by Jahzzar. Show Transcript: North, Cara A. 0:00 Have you had a dream and you’ve just wondered how to execute it? Or do you feel like you are put on this planet to do a little bit more? Today we’re talking to someone who I met via social media, and I’m sure you will fall in love with her as quickly as we have. Her name is Betty Dannewitz, and she is the owner of If you ask Betty. On today’s episode of Instructional Redesign Podcast, we’re going to talk with Betty about a lot of different topics. We’re gonna talk about how she got to that point, maybe a little bit about her background, some of the work that she’s done an augmented reality. But a real reason that I brought Betty on today’s podcast is she really is innovative, and is a big inspiration to folks that are really scared of trying something new. So Betty, welcome so much to the Instructional Redesign podcast. Betty Dannewitz 0:52 Thanks so much for having me. I’m excited. North, Cara A. 0:54 Yeah, well, thank you again for being here. I guess I should introduce myself again, my name is Cara North. I am one of the hosts of Instructional Redesign podcast, stories and conversations about the modern learning experience. And like I said, I met Betty on I believe it was either LinkedIn, or Twitter and we just hit it off. I think she actually said, I think we should be friends. Is that how it happened? Betty Dannewitz 1:18 That’s exactly how it happened yes I’m glad you recall that. North, Cara A. 1:22 Well, it’s it’s funny because you know, you put out so much stuff on social media and you don’t know if any of it is really connecting with people. You don’t know if it’s an echo chamber, but it was great to meet Betty and actually got to meet her face to face at Devlearn in 2019. And it was it was pretty epic. So I want you all to get to know Betty a little bit better. So Betty, can you tell us a little bit about yourself? How did you get into the learning development space? Betty Dannewitz 1:48 Sure. I am an immersive experience designer, which is a title I’ve given myself, and I’m fine with that. I have been in corporate learning and development for like 17 years. So I started out working for a financial institution as a bank teller and worked my way up in the brick and mortar, and then transitioned over into training. And there’s a longer story behind that. But anyways, I’ve been in training for 17 years learning and development, all those fancy words we want to use. I’m also a speaker, I’m a high performance coach, and content and curriculum consultant. So that’s where you’re talking about that innovation. I appreciate that wonderful comment. Wonderful compliment is a better word. I am I try to be innovative, you know, my passion, really, my mission is to help people become better humans. And I think I’m very strongly believe that innovative technology has a huge role in making that happen. North, Cara A. 2:47 I love that. And if you again, don’t know about it, you don’t follow her on social media, one thing that I was really taken very quickly with her is just her authenticity of what she shares. So I totally get a couple of different vibes when I read what Betty puts out there. The first vibe I get is definitely like a la Rosie The Riveter, because you just get this really kind of strong female perspective from everything that she puts out. Another influence I totally get from her is kind of that nurturing coach that really has your best interest at heart. So again, if you haven’t followed her on social media, I highly recommend it. And one thing that I’m really excited about asking you, I’m sure the audience would love to know this, too, is a little bit about once you’ve been in this space for as long as that you’ve been Betty, it’s really hard to keep your skills sharp, especially if you work at an organization where your learning and development product has looked the same for multiple years. So what advice do you have to people on how to be innovative when it comes to upskilling themselves? Betty Dannewitz 3:53 So I, you may not like my answer, although you set it up quite nicely, but I’m obsessed with LinkedIn, I just obsessed with it, and I own that, right?! I will own that till the day I die. You know, I have a day job that I love. And it keeps me sort of in that corporate L&D space where I get to facilitate on a fairly regular basis, I design learning, I get to play with technology, you know, my role there includes sort of seeing out new technologies and seeing if they fit for the business that we support. But I’m also researching and reading all the time. So I’m out there on LinkedIn looking for articles, especially for people like you Cara or people out there like that are trying to blaze the trail and spread out great information because I don’t know if you’ve figured this out yet, but our industry has a lot of noise. And, I don’t mean that in a negative way, because everybody’s talking about something. And so it’s sometimes it’s hard to kind of parse through all that and find the good nuggets of great information. So I love collecting information and then sort of finding another way to apply it. So I read a lot, right? Or at least I Audible a lot for sure. I love Audible. So reading, researching, talking to people, I mean, networking is my superpower. And so I love connecting with people and asking them, I love to ask people about their story. Because I think there’s, there’s so much we can learn just by understanding how somebody got to where they are. And, I love to ask them about what they’re working on when I like if I’m on the phone with you and I asked you about your what projects you’re working on. You don’t have to give me the high level this person doesn’t really care because I really do like I want to know what you’re doing because I’m probably going to ask you five or six more questions to get more details, not because I’m trying to steal industry secrets, but just because I’m trying to understand what kind of cool stuff is happening out there in the industry. So I guess the short answer is I read, I research, I talk to a lot of people I stay connected. North, Cara A. 5:58 I can 100% confirm what she just said is true. When it comes to her asking you those questions on the phone, never forget the first time that Betty and I had a phone conversation. She did ask me, Hey, what’s your background? And hey, what are you working on? And it was so again, authentic and genuine. I didn’t feel like she was trying to do anything nefarious, I really did feel like she cared about me as an individual. So I love that you shared that with the audience, because it is very true. She does do that. Now. Side question. You mentioned LinkedIn. I have to admit, I’m on LinkedIn a lot now. But my main bread and butter for a long time was Twitter. And I still obviously use Twitter. But I have switched a lot to LinkedIn because I am getting kind of better engagement on that. What would you say to somebody who’s scared to kind of share their stuff on LinkedIn? How would you recommend them get started so they don’t contribute to that noise that you spoke of. Betty Dannewitz 6:58 We’ll start by following people that are giving content that’s valuable and pay attention to that. And then go out there and make sure you are commenting, liking, sharing stuff. If you feel like you have something to add, add in your comments because you’ll start to get a feel for what is it that’s really valuable to people. If you’re paying attention to what’s happening, get involved in the conversations, and it just sort of add your two cents, and people will respond to your two cents in fact, I find that people respond more to comments than posts. North, Cara A. 7:33 Again, I appreciate you giving those suggestions. I think they’re rock solid suggestions and very actionable. If people do want to go ahead and get started on LinkedIn. What I’d like to do now is pivot and talk a little bit about If You Ask Betty, before I asked a little bit about kind of your goals about it, I just again like to take a moment to compliment if you haven’t seen her If You Ask Betty, different posts and questions. You need to take a look at it. Your branding is amazing. It looks just like you, which is like so amazing. How did you come up with kind of the concept of the branding around If You Ask Betty? Betty Dannewitz 8:11 Well, that’s great question. So if the name if you ask Betty, I’ve actually had I bought that domain six or seven years ago, it was a lonely little blog site that got very little traffic. But really, I needed a place as I was starting to write. And so I needed a place to park my blogs and you can find all my archive blogs out there. They are not related to L&D just FYI, they are quite, quite literally about the most random smattering of information you could ever find. So just that’s just a warning. But so I had the name and was thinking about starting this this coaching business. I’ve had people tell me for years that I should do this, and I wa
27 minutes | a year ago
EP 023: L&D Myths
Myths in Learning and Development There are many pervasive myths in the field of learning and development. Despite most being disproved, some continue to be promoted as fact. Some are even dangerously counter-productive to learning. In this episode, Cara and Joe discuss some of these common myths and share their perspectives. Connect with Cara & Joe Support the show Music created by Jahzzar. Show Transcript: North, Cara A. 0:01 They tickle our imagination. They invite others to make their own. They even create community around those who appreciate them. So why is it that myths in learning and development space aren’t as beloved as tall tales, folklore and pop culture? Well, the answer is quite simply that they are dangerous to the profession that many of us love. Welcome to the Instructional ReDesign Podcast, stories and conversations about the modern learning experience. Suarez, Joseph 0:30 Is that the right one, about designing? North, Cara A. 0:42 I’m Cara North and today Joe and I are going to dive headfirst into some of these pervasive myths and explore their origins and what can be done to slay them. Now want to start with one that I kind of fell across in 2014 when I took a graduate class called adult learning. Now you have to remember, this was my first graduate class in the master’s program, and I was eager to learn all about it. Now, about halfway through the course, I learned about a gentleman named Malcolm Knowles, who explained this term called andragogy. And andragogy is essentially kind of like the opposite of pedagogy. Andragogy is about how adults learn. And for him, this breakthrough was kind of again about that the adults do learn differently from children. Now, he used this approach of self directed learning. And he said that that was kind of the way that you should implement andragogy. He helped groups of students kind of take responsibility for their learning, they were able to be a part of the subject matter for the course. And he kind of had these four principles of andragogy that I just want to touch on really quick. So the first is basically that the adult learner needs to be involved. So they need to be involved somehow and kind of the planning and evaluation of their instructio. Two would be that adult learners experience also comes into play in the way that they learn. So experience and that can include, you know, good or bad provides kind of the basis for learning activities. Three would be relevance and impact into their lives. This would be classified as the what’s in it for me effect. So why should adult learners care about this? And four is problem-centered. And so how is it that they’re going to learn through a problem centered curriculum versus a content oriented. So this is more about applying what they already kind of have in their brain. Now, again, kind of going through this, there’s kind of two ways to kind of understand this. So there was kind of these different resources and studies that were done that basically said the andragogy is more like the science and art of helping adults learn whereas pedagogy is like the art and science of teaching children so it’s more on kind of your spoon fed you’re telling of you know, this is the way this is. Two plus two equals four versus in an adult classroom it’s more, okay, two plus two equals four. Why is that? Like, why do you think that is? How do you know that’s true? So more kind of critical thinking cap is kind of the way that it was initially kind of put out there. So I’m in this class, Joe, and I’m like, okay, sure. I think that makes sense. I mean, it’s coming from, you know, scholarship. It’s coming from all of this Suarez, Joseph 3:25 Sounds logical. North, Cara A. 3:26 Yeah, seems logical, right? But let’s think about this a little bit further. So for me, a couple things that I want to talk on about why this maybe shouldn’t be as embraced as much as it is the number one what defines an adult learner? What in the heck does that mean? Does that is that their age? Is that how many hairs they have on their chin? Is that if they’re living on their own? I mean it it doesn’t really operationalize and say what an adult learner is. So Joe, what do you think an adult learner is? Suarez, Joseph 3:56 I guess legally you become an adult learner at the age of 18. So that would make a bunch of high school seniors adult learners, right? North, Cara A. 4:01 I think so. And then also, I think that would put our college population, our college students, the folks that are considered the traditional, if you will, college students are definitely adults as well as the non traditional college students, which I absolutely hate that term and can’t believe I said it. But that’s a horse of another color. And two, I want to talk a little bit more about the self directed learning piece. So let’s talk begin about like, what does that mean? So first of all, if adults are naturally self directed, does that mean that they’re always coming in with a great attitude ready to learn? No, I mean, there’s a lot of different bags, that we all kind of carry in our own environments of what that looks like. Second is the way that it is kind of put into the literature about the self direction. It’s kind of all or nothing. Either you got it and you are self directed, or you’re not. It’s kind of on this continuum of extremes. We all know you may be in a learning environment, you might be briefly distracted, but then you can get your mind back in the game to make it happen of whatever it is that you’re trying to learn. So there’s that. And then kind of like the last one is that self directed learning means learning in isolation. That is not true. And I know that a lot of us know the benefits of social learning. Being able to bounce ideas off people is super important. So again, there’s kind of this dimension of the self directed learning, and that it’s adults only. But fundamentally, I mean, can we really say biologically, that adults and children learn differently? Suarez, Joseph 5:41 Yeah, that’s a tough one. I mean, a lot of what you mentioned about what defines an adult learner comes down to previous experience and not just being a blank slate that you can kind of cram information to. It’s like, well, I’ve already learned something. So how does this new piece information fit within what I already know and also how is that going to apply to me in my life? Those are the things, the assumptions that I see from the principles you mentioned. But I also think that those are traits that people start to develop probably in like junior high, or even sooner, where they’re already starting to look a little more critically at the information that teachers are presenting to them in school and say, Well, what does that have to do with me and, and my desire to go out and skateboard and be a rebellious teenager? Well, maybe that was just me. North, Cara A. 6:31 No, I know, I agree with you. And going back to the principles if you remove adult out of there and add in, let’s say, dog, so, you know, dogs want to be involved in the planning and evaluation of their own instruction. Yeah, dogs want to do what they want to do, right? You know, dogs, learning experience provides the basis for learning activities. Yeah, if you crack their hind end if they’re not doing something right, and then a dog is probably going to remember that right? So that’s kind of my problem with it. I don’t think it is just about adults. Do I believe that experiences matter in learning? Do I believe that motivation matters in learning? Absolutely. But just to say that adults are the only ones that are impacted by that, I think is just a little bit limiting to kind of, again, our audience in learning and development, we want to make sure that we’re inclusive of everybody and not just say that adults do this. And adults do that. That’s just kind of one of my little soap boxes. Suarez, Joseph 7:34 Yeah, it’s one of your soap boxes. I think you have many soap boxes. So what’s your next soapbox there? North, Cara A. 7:40 My next soapbox is learning styles. Now I’m sure if you’ve taken any kind of education class ever, you’ve likely heard of learning styles. And if you haven’t, basically, it’s a theory that kind of gained popularity I believe in the 1970s here in the United States. Basically the crux of it is that all students can be classified according to their style of learning. So in other words, individuals learn differently. Now again, on the surface, if you think about it maybe doesn’t sound too outrageous as you may like to listen to podcast, or maybe you want to read a text to learn new information. Now, the primary flaw here for me is that it assumes that the fundamental process of learning where the brain codes and recalls information is different from person to person. Now, if they would have changed it from learning styles to learning preferences, I think that might have avoid some of this criticism. Now, each person has an individual preference, perhaps on what they do or don’t like when it comes to learning. But that doesn’t mean that the fundamental neuroscience of how we learn changes. Now there are many educators in the field that actually still do not realize that there is still no research evidence to back up the claims that students learn through a preferred cognitive style, which includes visual, audio, kinesthetic, and reading and writing. So there’s a gentleman that I met in my higher ed studies, his name is
30 minutes | a year ago
EP 022: Interview John Hinchliffe
Cara interviews John Hinchliffe, Instructional Design Expert at UAEU. Connect with John Connect with Cara & Joe Support the show Music created by Jahzzar. Show Transcript: North, Cara A. 0:03 Hi listeners! It’s one of your hosts, Cara North. And today I have a very special treat for you on the Instructional Redesign podcast. If you know me, you know that I love conferences. I love going to conferences for the knowledge, but equally as important are the people. Last year I had the opportunity to go to Devlearn, and I met a wonderful learning development professional, who I’m sure we can learn so much from his name is John Hinchliffe! John, welcome to Instructional Redesign podcast. Hinchliffe, John 0:36 Thank you very much. North, Cara A. 0:38 Again, a pleasure to have you. John is actually in the UAE is currently where he lives at and if you will, John, can you give our listeners just a little bit background about you and what you’re currently up to? Hinchliffe, John 0:53 Yeah, sure thing. Thanks a lot for having me on here. Really big fan of it. Now when it comes to me I’ve been in learning and development for over 10 years now. And I started out as a face to face trainer for a bank and started to really develop into digital learning about seven years ago. So I started in instructional design, understanding kind of what words instructional design pedagogies started looking at authoring tools. Then I joined a fantastic e learning company with virtual college in the UK. And just really making wonderful pieces of E learning and just being given the freedom to really understand what works, what kind of really helps our customers. And I became instructional design manager there and I won Learning Professional of the Year Bronze when I was there, which was a wonderful thing. And I also joined as a volunteer position on the board of directors for the E Learning Network, which is one of the biggest nonprofits in the E learning industry had a really great time that just really helping people understand what they can do in the industry. How they can progress. And from there, I have now moved out here to the UAE I personally worked for the United Arab Emirates University as their instructional design expert. And I take care of around 700 members of faculty helping them evolve from just face to face learning to blended learning. So telling them you know, about how do we learn, but also how do we forget as human beings? And also what technology can we utilize? And also what learning experiences can we incorporate to really help the 16,000 students that we have here? And in addition to that, I also help with our PhD students that we have here. So PhD students who are looking to become faculty, I give them insights into what is modern learning and how can they really incorporate that? Because that’s real knock on effect for the future generations. So kind of in a nutshell, that’s me. North, Cara A. 2:54 I love it. And I didn’t know that about the PhD piece of what you do, and it’s something that I’ve kind of learned the hard way in my own PhD journeys, is, you know, a lot of times in my role, and I also work at a university, it’s very easy to get frustrated with faculty and also the system. But then I take a step back. And I think, you know, these folks that are teaching, typically in a PhD program, there are not any courses on how to teach. It’s just hyper concentrated in whatever it is that they’re trying to study. So I love that you have the opportunity to kind of work with with them on that piece. And I also didn’t know you started as a stand up trainer. I did too. So I think there’s Yeah, there’s a lot of us out there that started in that ILT space and then kind of pivoted into the digital space. So I love that. So it sounds like you have a pretty diverse background with corporate and higher education. And obviously, you’ve been in this space for for a while, kind of like kind of like me. So I’m curious, how do you keep those skills sharp because there’s a lot of noise out there right now about everything in the space. Hinchliffe, John 4:04 Yeah, I mean, that’s always been the thing is that there is so much noise and so many opinions and and obviously, we’re January now it’s time for buzzwords. So it’s really about how can you look at what are the valuable sources, sort of the credible sources, but also conscious talking to people, so having the conversations and also having conversations with people that you really respect. So for me, a really big inspiration is Learning Development podcast with David James, and on there, he’s had some incredible guests, you know, like Lori Niles Hoffman, so much respect for her work in data driven learning. Adam Harwood when it comes to resources, not courses. Danny Seals when we talk about learning experience design, and that’s a real big focus on experience. How do we learn from experiences? And finally, I think, you know, one of the really big ones on there is Nick Shackleton Jones, who has such a unique insight. But I think when you really start taking these pieces of information on board, it just really starts making you think about learning and the process of learning. I think also for me, you know, being in this region, it is quite a surprise when I turned up here. So today’s actually my one year anniversary of living out here. And for me, it has been really quite curious how there was no best practice sharing really out here. So I started a meetup group called the UAE Learning and Development Meetup. And in the beginning, it had six people. And the reason for that was that out here, there are quite a lot of people who are looking to make money off things. So if you have a Meetup group, it’s usually you turn up and you pay the host 10 pounds, which kind of feels a bit wrong to me. So a lot of people thought that it was a money making scheme, because everything else was so it happened the first one I gave a ton of value to people and then the words are getting out there I wasn’t in it for the money, I was in it for the karma. And so it’s a growing and growing. And now it’s really about how many people can we help and how many people can have the conversations and not feel alone out here. Because I think that’s one of the things that if you’re not talking to anybody, and if you are just being a bit of an onlooker on LinkedIn, you can feel very alone, you can feel as though your skills are not really up to par. So very much for me is about talking to everybody just whether it is face to face, or whether it’s on LinkedIn. For me, LinkedIn has been an incredible ride. And it just keeps on going and going. So randomly, I’m in the top 5%, in our industry on LinkedIn, and I just love providing people value but also by providing value, it also gives me insight from other people. What’s working for them, what’s not working for them, what are their pain points, and where can I get inspiration from that, but then also being able to practice those in my work. So with the faculty that I help, I’m able to experiment. So I have quite a number of faculty who are, you know, willing to take, you know, a little bit of a pump, been able to really see how can we implement resources? How can we implement things that will help that learner when they need them? So yeah, it’s, it’s really quite a big broad range for me. North, Cara A. 7:20 You know, you’re the second person that I’ve interviewed for this season that’s talked about the importance of LinkedIn. So that tells me that we need to get some LinkedIn experts in on this podcast to help our listeners kind of get started with that. And I smiled, because I know we’re probably gonna talk about this here when we talk about Devlearn, but the Meetup thing you kind of like those meetups don’t, you? Hinchliffe, John 7:43 Yeah, I think, you know, we can click from place to place but nothing really replaces face to face. And I think it just yeah, I think, you know, it’s actually, you know, meet people and, you know, just really thrash ideas out and also, you know, just kind of give some empathy as well. Well, you know, this is a tough game that we’re in is learning and development, whether you are face to face, whether you’re online, and being able to know that people have gone through those same pains, and, you know, being able to, you know, just have a coffee and just talk through something, and really help people is, um, yeah, it’s a really great thing for me. North, Cara A. 8:19 I love that. And I think that that’s definitely a noble cause that that you’re doing. And you kind of talked a little bit about kind of the culture of, if somebody is helping you that it was kind of expected there was a payment, where you’re currently at, can you give us kind of another quick little snapshot of like, what instructional design looks like, in your part of the world where you’re at? I just think it’s fascinating to kind of hear like the day in the life of someone else somewhere else in the world, and how they approach things. Hinchliffe, John 8:50 Yeah, I mean, really, quite a surprising thing is instructional design really feels in its infancy here. And it was quite a big shock for me. I mean, tin can out here, you would only really find in the supermarket. It’s, um, it’s not really a word that is used. And, you know, really, it feels as though being able to bring kind of my experiences and kind of my thoughts that I’ve had from actually doing the work. But also, you know, from this, keeping my skills up to date is really, really helping people kind of think differently, and really think
32 minutes | a year ago
EP 021: Instructional Design Skills
What skills does an instructional designer need in 2020? As we move into 2020, Cara and Joe discuss some of the skills they consider to be essential for instructional designers. Soft Skills: Curiosity Project management Ability to define “what good looks like” Networking Skepticism Technical Skills: User experience (UX) design Learning analytics Know how to code Visual Design Video production Connect with Cara & Joe: Twitter: @RedesignPodcast, @CaraNorth11, @Joseph_Suarez Websites: InstructionalRedesign.com CaraNorth.com JosephSuarez.com Support us on Patreon and get podcast updates via Twitter (@RedesignPodcast).Intro music created by Jahzzar.
21 minutes | a year ago
EP 020: Video Considerations
What to consider when planning to create a video learning solution… Cara and Joe have a super helpful discussion around many of the considerations that go into the production (yes, it’s a production) of video both big and small. Connect with Cara & Joe: Twitter: @RedesignPodcast, @CaraNorth11, @Joseph_Suarez Websites: InstructionalRedesign.com CaraNorth.com JosephSuarez.com Support us on Patreon and get podcast updates via Twitter (@RedesignPodcast).Intro music created by Jahzzar.
26 minutes | 2 years ago
EP 019: The eLearning Guys
Interview with the eLearning Guys Dave Charney and Nejc Žorga Dulmin host the eLearning Guys podcast where they talk in depth about their favorite authoring tool, Articulate Storyline. So it’s only fitting that we have them on the show to talk shop about eLearning development and their latest venture, a video course library called Master Storyline. The guys were gracious enough to provide Instructional Redesign podcast listeners with a 10% off discount on their first purchase at MasterStoryline.com. The offer is good through 2019. Connect with Dave and Nejc: The eLearning Guys Podcast Master Storyline DavidCharney.com Dave on Twitter (@dave_charney) Nejc on Twitter (@nejcd) Connect with Cara & Joe: Twitter: @RedesignPodcast @CaraNorth11 @Joseph_Suarez Websites: InstructionalRedesign.com CaraNorth.com JosephSuarez.com Support us on Patreon and get podcast updates via Twitter (@RedesignPodcast).Intro music created by Jahzzar.
31 minutes | 2 years ago
EP 018 Catch Up with Cara & Joe
In this episode, we break away from our normal format (if we have one) to catch up on all the great things we’ve accomplished over the past year. So please allow us about 30 minutes to bring you up to speed on what we’ve been up to and pat ourselves on the back a bit. We open by talking about our experiences at the 2018 Central Ohio ATD Learning Technologies and Design Day conference. And I want to quickly mention that the event returns again on Sept 19th 2019. So if you are listening in time, as of now there are some spaces left. Visit centralohioatd.org for more info. We hope to see you there. Connect with Cara & Joe: Twitter: @RedesignPodcast @CaraNorth11 @Joseph_Suarez Websites: InstructionalRedesign.com CaraNorth.com JosephSuarez.com Intro music created by Jahzzar.
33 minutes | 2 years ago
EP 017: Mark L. Sheppard
Interview with Mark L. Sheppard Cara and Joe chat with Mark L. Sheppard, a Senior Learning Consultant from Ontario and self-identified “Unrepentant Geek” with a wealth of L&D experience. The three engage in quite an interesting discussion comparing the work of learning and development to Star Wars. Connect with Mark: Mark on TwitterMark on LinkedIn Connect with Cara & Joe: Twitter: @RedesignPodcast@CaraNorth11@Joseph_Suarez Websites: InstructionalRedesign.comCaraNorth.comJosephSuarez.com Intro music created by Jahzzar.
33 minutes | 2 years ago
EP 016: Jac Hutchinson
Interview with Jac Hutchinson Cara and Joe chat with experienced L&D practitioner, business owner, and fellow podcaster Jac Hutchinson. She shares her origin story and some deeply personal experiences around her decision to first go out on her own and eventually form an incorporated business, eLearning Pros. Jac lays out some great advice for starting business owners or anyone who may consider someday making the transition. Connect with Jac: The Lounge PodcastJac on LinkedIn Jac on Twitter Connect with Cara & Joe: Twitter: @RedesignPodcast,@CaraNorth11,@Joseph_Suarez Websites: InstructionalRedesign.comCaraNorth.comJosephSuarez.com Intro music created by Jahzzar.
21 minutes | 2 years ago
EP 015: TLDC (Interview)
What is TLDC and who is it for? Today’s episode consists of the responses to interview questions Cara and Joe posed to Training Learning & Development Community (TLDC) co-founders Brent Schlenker and Luis Malbas. They walked us through the humble, grass-roots origins of TLDC and how it’s evolved over time into a community of L&D professionals. If you like what you hear, find out more at TLDC.us, and look into future online and in-person events they host like the upcoming TLDC19 in Phoenix, AZ. Connect with Cara & Joe: Twitter: @RedesignPodcast@CaraNorth11@Joseph_Suarez Websites: InstructionalRedesign.comCaraNorth.comJosephSuarez.com Support us on Patreon and get podcast updates via Twitter (@RedesignPodcast).Intro music created by Jahzzar.
18 minutes | 3 years ago
EP 014: Games – Part 3: Gamified Learning
Games - Part 3: Gamified Learning For months listeners have been anxiously waiting for the epic conclusion to the gaming series trilogy. Will a Jedi return? Will Cara and Joe get back to 1985? Can they escape the island of dinosaurs yet again? And hey, why didn't the eagles just fly them to the end of this episode from the start??? None of that will be revealed. Instead they talk some more about games and learning and whatnot... It's a trap! Links/Resources [SPONSOR] Instructional Design Genius Designing Digitally (Andrew Hughes's company that builds serious games) M-level Axonify eLearning Brothers Training Arcade Pungi Connect with Cara & Joe: Twitter: @RedesignPodcast @CaraNorth11 @Joseph_Suarez Websites: InstructionalRedesign.com CaraNorth.com JosephSuarez.com Get podcast updates via Twitter (@RedesignPodcast). Intro music created by Jahzzar.
18 minutes | 3 years ago
EP 013: Learning DevCamp 2018
Learning DevCamp 2018 Conference Recap Pack your bags because Joe and Cara are going back to Salt Lake City, Utah to recap the 2018 Learning DevCamp conference. They'll summarize their experience at the three day event including the eLearning Brother's first ever eLBX event. Links/Resources mentioned in this episode: [SPONSOR] Instructional Design Genius Learning DevCamp Kristin Anthony’s Recaps of Learning DevCamp 18: eLBX Day One Day Two Dear Instructional Designer Podcast eLearning Brother’s own eLBX recap Connect with Cara & Joe: Twitter: @RedesignPodcast @CaraNorth11 @Joseph_Suarez Websites: InstructionalRedesign.com CaraNorth.com JosephSuarez.com Get podcast updates via Twitter (@RedesignPodcast). Intro music created by Jahzzar.
16 minutes | 3 years ago
EP 012: Chris Straley
What is Instructional Design Genius? In this episode, Joe interviews Chris Straley about his learning and development focused project management platform called Instructional Design Genius (IDG). IDG assists in estimating time & costs associated with development, tracks budget, builds storyboards & communications campaigns, organizes training deployments, and isolates business impact so users can correlate ROI specifically with training. Visit InstructionalDesignGenius.com to learn more and request a demo. Connect with Chris on LinkedIn and Twitter. Disclosure: While IDG is now a sponsor of our show, this interview was recorded prior to any discussion of sponsorship. Also, rest assured no library patrons were disturbed during the making of this podcast episode. Connect with Cara & Joe: Twitter: @RedesignPodcast, @CaraNorth11, @Joseph_Suarez Websites: InstructionalRedesign.com CaraNorth.com JosephSuarez.com Enjoy our show? Please consider supporting us in one of several ways. Intro music created by Jahzzar.
15 minutes | 3 years ago
EP 011: TLDC UK Meetup Recap
How was the 2018 TLDC UK Meetup? On June 21st 2018 TLDC hosted the first (of many?) meetup in the United Kingdom. Cara, despite having her luggage in limbo for a wee bit (#WheresCarasBag), made it to London to attend along with Jo Cook of Lighbulb Moments and former guest of the show Bethany Taylor. The evening event was sponsored by GoodPractice who we want to congratulate on 100 episodes of their great podcast. Lastly, happy birthday to Cara today and a belated to Jo as well! Sponsor: This episode is brought to you by TLDC. Check our their website at TLDC.us for info about daily live stream discussions and interviews with L&D professionals, upcoming "playlists", the TLDC 2019 conference in Pheonix, AZ and more. Connect with Cara & Joe: Twitter: @RedesignPodcast, @CaraNorth11 @Joseph_Suarez Websites: InstructionalRedesign.com CaraNorth.com JosephSuarez.com Support us on Patreon and get podcast updates via Twitter (@RedesignPodcast). Intro music created by Jahzzar.
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