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EEs Talk Tech - An Electrical Engineering Podcast
34 minutes | a year ago
Measurement Overkill and why “Accuracy” is the Wrong Word – #42
Metrology Electrical Engineering Podcast – EEs Talk Tech on YouTube Metrology Podcast May 20th is a special day – World Metrology Day! Get a bit of history and learn about all things metrology when you join Daniel Bogdanoff, Bob Stern, and Chris Cox in this special Metrology Day electrical engineering podcast! App note mentioned by Bob: https://bit.ly/DecisionRules More about Keysight metrology, calibration, and services: https://www.keysight.com/find/metrology Topics and time tags: 0:00 World metrology day, and a brief history of the meter and the ohm 2:00 Keysight University has FREE test gear courses! 2:45 Bob Stern, Keysight Metrologist Chris Cox, Keysight Regional Metrologist 4:30 Why does metrology matter? How does it impact us? The global economy relies on a consistency of measurement and test, which is why metrology is important. It allows measurements made in one country to be used and replicated in other countries. 7:25 Metrology and measurement traceability is important. An unbroken chain of traceability is one of the key components of metrology and calibration. It’s a bit like a game of telephone leading back to SI units. 10:00 Keysight DMMs get calibrated off the first commercially available Josephson Junction – a tool that uses quantum physics to provide a very stable voltage. 11:16 Accuracy vs. Measurement Uncertainty A production engineer might say “accuracy” but really it’s all about “measurement uncertainty” Vocabulary of international metrology (VIM): https://www.bipm.org/en/publications/guides/vim.html 12:15 A practical example of how different instruments have different levels of uncertainty 13:45 What’s the significance of measurement uncertainty for a user of test gear or a production engineer? 15:33 The internal adjustments that the factory makes to an instrument are some of the most closely guarded intellectual property / trade secrets. 18:15 The Army uses mobile Josephson junctions to test the DMMs used in Apache helicopter field testing. 18:45 Metrology overkills – times when people went overboard with their measurement uncertainty 21:10 How do you quantify measurement uncertainty? There’s “test uncertainty ratio” which uses your expanded measurement uncertainty. 23:00 You can also get to percent risk, which is easy to wrap your head around. Bob Stern and Chris Cox authored some papers on this topic. 24:00 Why do people make measurements in the first place? There are no perfect measurements 26:45 Metrology in the government/military vs. private sector 29:00 There are a lot of factors for metrology equipment calibration and the engineering metrology equipment. There are different “levels” of calibration and different depth of reporting
21 minutes | a year ago
Life Lessons from electroBOOM! – DON’T PLAY WITH HIGH VOLTAGE! (Mehdi Sadaghdar Interview) – #41
That time Mehdi almost died on camera, science & tech on YouTube, 50 takes of the same scene, and more life advice from Mehdi Sadaghdar, aka electroBOOM! Join Mehdi and Daniel Bogdanoff in an random park in downtown New York City in this electrical engineering podcast episode. Mehdi is awesome check him out at: https://www.youtube.com/electroboom Episode sponsored by the 5G track, everything you need to know about 5G everything: https://www.keysight.com/find/LEARN5G Video: Audio: Approximate time tags: 1:00He gives away tools to people that actually need it 1:30electroBOOM is bringing electronics and electrical engineering to the mainstream Science channels are really growing on YouTube 2:55How much does Mehdi prepare for his videos? 3:30Most of Mehdi’s mistakes and explosions are planned and scripted 4:30The comment section is always interesting 5:10Mehdi has a Master’s Degree in Electrical Engineering 6:00He doesn’t have a very good pain tolerance 6:40He has a hard time keeping a straight face when something’s coming in the video 7:00Jacob’s Ladder project – he almost died and learned that he should not be a mechanical engineer“I would be dead if it wasn’t for my flimsy wiring…” 8:40Before he became a full time YouTuber he worked doing electronics for a boating steering and control company 9:50Mehdi got his undergrad degree in Iran, Master’s in Canada 10:00How Mehdi got into electronics – one of his relatives got him an electronics kit as a kid and he loved it 10:40electroBOOM is not as good of a channel name as his daughter’s channel, electroCUTE 11:40Mehdi works really hard on his videos Most underrated joke: “I don’t have a very long term memory” 12:25Mehdi’s wife didn’t used to like his videos, she thought they were boring. But, she’s since come around 13:30He watches PewDiePie and lots of science channels 14:40Mehdi and “Mr. Tripod” do all his production work 16:20The content is what matters, it’s not about the production value 17:10Every paragraph that he reads, he tries it 10 – 50 times so that it comes out straight. Usually it’s just the last take that he keeps 17:40Is it “recording” or “taping”? Can you still say “taping?” 18:10Batteries can explode in beautiful ways 18:45what other good science channels do you recommend?Cody’s Lab, Smarter Every Day, Veratisium, The Sci Show 19:20Follow Mehditation on YouTube as well: https://www.youtube.com/mehditation 19:35If you really want to learn electronics, you must experiment. Just pickup some random project, start building, and you will learn.And if you don’t care about electronics, do something else. I don’t know… …but don’t play with high voltage!
29 minutes | a year ago
Little Big Power: Femtoamps and Regenerative Supplies – #40
When power systems get ridiculous… Power goes way beyond basic bench power supplies. Daniel Bogdanoff sits down with Chris Cain to explore femtoamp measurements, 100 kV multi-quadrant regenerative power systems, noise, and space-borne solar arrays in this EEs Talk Tech electrical engineering podcast! Audio: Learn more about the Keysight RP7900 regenerative power systems (RPS) and the Keysight CX3300 Dynamic Current Analyzers 0:17Recording from New Jersey with Chris Cain, who manages teams for electronic industrial products, like power, DMMs, function generators, DAQs, board test, etc. 1:15Current analyzer behind us measures FEMTOAMPERES of current. This is useful for RF and IoT systems. 4:20Chris’s most spectacular equipment failure – a new engineer put their electrolytics in backwards 6:30For extra large electrolytic capacitors people design vent holes in PCB 8:15 High power power supplies. 5kW and 10 kW power supplies 9:00Two quadrant power supplies vs. one quadrant power supplies 10:30A 100 kV power supply!? What’s that used for? Battery emulation for things like electric cars. The supply has to be able to both source and sink power, and switch between the two very quickly 12:15A regenerative power supply (RPS) rectifies input voltage and puts it back on the AC mains instead of dissipating it as heat like a normal electronic load. So, the overall cooling requirements are very different for an RPS than a normal electronic load. One of the big costs for industrial factories is air conditioning and heat management. So, a regenerative power supply is very useful because it reduces heat. 15:15Regenerative power supplies are also useful for testing photovoltaic inverters, for both terrestrial and space solar systems. 18:45Noise parameters for high power systems 20:30Power is very complex, and the systems are very dynamic 22:15Giant toroidal transformers are used for power supplies and are dynamically controlled. They also are leveraged from systems like source measure units (SMUs). 24:30Precision current measurement is very different than measurement, it often uses a triax 25:30Some systems have 5 or 6 wire measurements to help with guardbanding
35 minutes | a year ago
5G, Beamforming, & MIMO – #39
5G means business. With wired speeds coming in over the air, designers are turning to new wireless techniques like beamforming, MIMO, and advanced tower synchonization designed to pump you full of bits. Find out more as Daniel Bogdanoff sits down with Brig Asay and Joe Haver to discuss the changing wireless ecosystem of tomorrow. Audio: Video: 1:004G was sub 6 GHz, but 5G is much higher frequencies (24 GHz, 28 GHz, 39 GHz, and above 50 GHz) 2:154G test strategies: simple source and a middle-of-the-line signal analyzer. There were also some combo boxes that were both signal sources and signal analyzers. 4:005G testing requires more powerful setups. There are still generators, but they have to be more powerful. FR2, 100 MHz, 200 MHz, 400 MHz wide bands make things more complicated. Chambers and OTA (over the air) testing and MIMO systems make things much more complicated. And, a 5G system has to cover all of these ranges. 5:30MIMO for 5G – MIMO means “Multiple Input Multiple Output” Beamforming is also being implemented. Designers need to be able to test and see all the 5G signals at once. 7:00 Beamforming explanation and discussion – essentially beams can be directed with constructive and destructive interference to send signals to UEs (user equipment). 5G beamforming significantly increases the power delivered to a UE. Want to try it? Try “Build a beam” here: https://www.keysight.com/main/editorial.jspx?cc=US&lc=eng&ckey=2800374 10:005G brings wired-level speeds to wireless systems, which will open up brand new markets that haven’t even been defined yet. 11:155G security 12:00Are 5G bandwidths a challenge? A wider carrier channel means more interference and a lower effective number of bits / SNR (signal to noise ratio). So, the wide 5G bands require a more robust design. This is especially true for distance. Even windows are potentially a challenge with 5G frequencies, so beamforming becomes critical. 15:30Testing 5G with a signal analyzer / spectrum analyzer – is it doable? Sorta… How do you look at four distinct bands at one time? 18:00The UXR oscilloscope can actually look at multiple bands at once at 0.5 EVM (error vector magnitude). 20:00Why does 5G have so many different frequencies and bands? Isn’t that excessive? 21:00Will 5G make it where I can get rid of my home internet provider? 22:00Beamforming from a cell tower is pretty easy, but it’s much harder for a handset. So, there are systems that propose 5G downlinks, but 4G or 3G back up to the tower. 23:00Multiple towers can talk to the same handset AT THE SAME TIME! Multiple towers can provide the same packet at the same time to the same UE to increase the power. This means they are all working on the same clock as well. 25:00There are a number of ways to synchronize multiple cell towers at the same time. GPS is common, but there are a number of other feasible technologies. 27:00Brig has to get in his “vicious Keysight plug” for the mmWave extension on the UXR that lets an oscilloscope behave like a signal analyzer. It also uses a 1mm connector on the front end. 31:45Stupid question: if you had to describe 5G using five words that start with “G” what would they be?
42 minutes | a year ago
USB4 – No more Mr. Nice Guy, your USB-C connector has to do it all! – #38
New tunneling modes, the scoop on plugfests, and 40 Gbps! Get the FREE! Tech Tip eBook about testing 6 emerging technolgy standards: http://bit.ly/PodcastTechTrends Subscribe on YouTube ► http://bit.ly/KeysPodcastSub ◄ It feels like USB 3.2 just came out, but USB4 is HERE! With USB4, gone are the days of wondering what’s behind that USB Type-C connector – all the functionality is mandatory. And, you get double the speed! 40 Gbps over two 20 Gpbs lines keeps Moore’s law happy (which makes us happy). Find out more in today’s podcast with Jit Lim, Mike Hoffman, and Daniel Bogdanoff. Video version: Twitter: @DanielBogdanoff: https://twitter.com/DanielBogdanoff Subscribe with your podcast tool: iTunes:https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/ees-talk-tech-an-electrical-engineering-podcast/id1238385165 Spotify:https://open.spotify.com/show/4j9CG7Z1iy9zkjnOSVHB6f Google:https://podcasts.google.com/?feed=aHR0cHM6Ly9lZXN0YWxrdGVjaC5jb20vZmVlZC9wb2RjYXN0&hl=en Stitcher:https://www.stitcher.com/podcast/keysight-technologies/ees-talk-tech RSS:https://eestalktech.com/feed/podcast/ees-talk-tech Notes & Topics: 1:45 The USB-IF released the USB4 Spec in September USB4 requires that you use the USB Type C connector USB4 is fully backwards compatible USB4 uses a 20 Gbps x2 link (pronounced “by two”) so Moore’s law still holds (yay!) USB 3.2 took 10 Gbps and doubled it to 20 Gbps It’s USB4 not USB 4.0 and not USB 4 (confirmed) 10:00With USB4 you must implement USB-PD (USB Power Delivery), but in the past it was optional.USB4 brings a doubling bitrates, you must use Type C connector, and must be backwards compatible all the way to USB2 13:30USB 3 and USB 3.2 had a lot of alternate modes, but USB4 implements a tunneling mode. With tunneling allows you to send packets of USB, DisplayPort, or PCIe inside of the USB protocol. This means you don’t have to run it as an alternate mode, which requires extra silicon. 17:00The silicon is often prototyped before a spec is actually released, so that the spec can match reality and be possible to build. 18:30USB4 is already being prototyped and tested. At the USB workshop-plugfestUSB plugfests are very secret, and company names aren’t used. They use a “test ID number” instead of company name, and the attendance is very limited. In many cases, only Keysight and the company testing their device are allowed to be in the room while the testing is done. 21:00A “Compliance Test Spec” describes how you test a device against a specification. Because, you can’t test for every single thing in the spec, but you can test a subset of things to verify performance. 22:00 Will USB take over everything? It depends on the other organizations and specifications groups. There are other ecosystems and organizations like VESA (DisplayPort) and HDMI that are autonomous. But, both HDMI and VESA have a USB Type-C mode that allows the protocols to work over a USB Type C connector 26:00USB4 implementation is very complex! The different speeds that could be used are pretty complex. USB4 is advertised 40 Gbps, but it’s actually 20 Gbps x2. 30:15It can be 5 Gbps, 10 Gbps, 20 Gbps, and run at x1 or x2, and it can also do alt modes. 31:55Are there any main competitors to USB4? What about the lightning connector from Apple? 35:30There’s evidence that there will be a USB4 native display, and some high end USB4 monitors already exist. 36:30USB4 is coming, and if you want to be on the leading edge you better get started now (and why)! 38:20 – stupid questions:When will see USB5? What’s the lamest way someone could use USB4? If USB4 is truly universal, shouldn’t it go into space? Helpful Links: Keysight Bench Facebook page:https://www.facebook.com/keysightbench Keysight RF Facebook page:https://www.facebook.com/keysightrf EEs Talk Tech Electrical Engineering podcast:https://www.eestalktech.comhttps://www.youtube.com/KeysightPodcasts Check out our blog: http://bit.ly/KeysTechBlogs
2 minutes | 2 years ago
Teaser: EEs Talk Tech Season 2!
It ain’t over. We’re back with a hot new season, premiering November 21, 2019! Audio: https://eestalktech.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/10/EE-Talk-Tech-Electrical-Engineering-Podcast-Season-2-Trailer.mp3 Video: iTunes:https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/ees-talk-tech-an-electrical-engineering-podcast/id1238385165 Spotify:https://open.spotify.com/show/4j9CG7Z1iy9zkjnOSVHB6f Stitcher:https://www.stitcher.com/podcast/keysight-technologies/ees-talk-tech Google Play and Google Podcasts:https://podcasts.google.com/?feed=aHR0cHM6Ly9lZXN0YWxrdGVjaC5jb20vZmVlZC9wb2RjYXN0&hl=en
33 minutes | 2 years ago
IC Packaging – #37
The unsung heroes of the IC world – packaging engineers! https://eestalktech.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/03/IC-Packaging-Electrical-Engineering-Podcast.mp3 The pictures I promised: The UXR Amplifier Fanout Package: Bert Signal Conditioning Hybrid Packaging: UXR Data Processor Flip Chip Packaging:
33 minutes | 2 years ago
Space Technology – #36
Space requires new technologies. Much like the space race of the 1950s, engineers are feverishly working to gain a competitive advantage. Mark Lombardi sits down to explore rad hardening, thermal vacuum chambers, space mining, CubeSats, and battery technology. https://eestalktech.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/12/Space-Technology-36-EEs-Talk-Tech-Electrical-Engineering-Podcast.mp3 Mark Lombardi – 25 years at HP/Agilent/Keysight. He worked for RT logic for a few years, where he got into space. 2:00 – Your odds of survival getting to space are better than getting to the top of Everest. 2:30 – Space mining from the Asteroid belt has the potential to create the worlds first trillionaire. 3:20 – We need to establish manufacturing in space. For example, what if you manufactured satellites on the moon instead of on earth? 4:00 – The main driver is price-per-pound 6:10 – The Space Force – it sounds a little silly at first but is very reasonable when you take a closer look. 7:45 – How do you test objects bound for space? 8:30 – Space is transitioning from government-only to commercial. Businesses are starting to explore how to add value to society and make a profit from space. 9:15 – Phased arrays, reusable rockets, LEO satellites are all changing space technology. 10:00 – Low earth orbit satellites have much lower delay. Geosynchronous satellites have a 250 ms propagation delay. This has interesting implications for 5G – that 250 ms latency is too long for 5G requirements. So, LEO satellites are what will be used. 12:00 – Using LEO satellites will be deployed in force instead of as singles, as mentioned in the Weather Cubesat podcast. 13:45 – Ghana launched their own satellite, which is a huge step. They eventually won’t be dependent on others for their space access. And, they can do specialized things for reasonable prices. 15:00 – Announcements – we haven’t podcasted in a long time, sorry! We are switching to 1x per month 16:45 – Radiation hardening for electronics, sometimes called electronics hardening. Historically, you had to plan for a long life in a satellite. Now, you don’t have to. 17:30 – It’s also hard to get a rad hardened cutting-edge technology. 18:00 – LEO satellites get less radiation, so it’s less of a problem. And, since they are cheaper, you can build in an expected mortality rate. 19:00 – You can also rev hardware faster, allowing you to use newer technology. Think about imagers, the technology has moved a long way in seven years. 19:55 – Space is cold. Space is a vacuum. So, to test our gear you have to reproduce that on earth. To do that, we use special chambers. 20:50 – Thermal vacuum chambers (T vac) are used to test space objects. Automotive parts are actually very resilient to temperature changes and can be leveraged into space designs. 21:30 – What happens to electronics in space? The vacuum is a bigger challenge than the temperature changes. 23:30 – To get more bandwidth, we have to increase frequency. This leads to attenuation in the air and in cables. Some designers are switching to waveguides. 25:00 – With modular test equipment, you could potentially have test gear that can survive in space. 27:00 – What is the current and projected size of the space industry? 28:10 – What batteries are used in space? What factors into battery decisions? – Lithium ion batteries work well in space, and are used when we can charge them with solar energy. 28:40 – Deep space exploration uses all sorts of obscure battery technology. 29:10 – Electronic propulsion 30:05 – Over 150V, things get interesting. The breakdown voltage is different in space than it is on earth. So, designers have to be very careful.
44 minutes | 3 years ago
New 110 GHz Oscilloscope – UXR Q&A #35
Brig Asay, Melissa, and Daniel Bogdanoff sit down to answer the internet’s questions about the new 110 GHz UXR oscilloscope. How long did it take? What did it cost? Find out! https://eestalktech.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/09/Creating-the-UXR.mp3 Some of the questions & comments S K on YouTube: How long does it take to engineer something like this? With custom ASICs all over the place and what not… Glitch on YouTube: Can you make a budget version of it for $99? Steve Sousa on YouTube: But how do you test the test instrument?? It’s already so massively difficult to make this, how can you measure and qualify it’s gain, linearity etc? TechNiqueBeatz on YouTube: About halfway through the video now.. what would the practical application(s) of an oscilloscope like this be? Alberto Vaudagna on YouTube: Do you know what happen to the data after the dsp? It go to the CPU motherboard and processed by the CPU or the data is overlayed on the screen and the gui is runner’s by the CPU? How does a piece of equipment like that get delivered? I just don’t think UPS or Fedex is going to cut it for million+ dollar prototype. It would be nice to see some higher magnification views of the front end. Ulrich Frank:mNice sturdy-looking handles at the side of the instrument – to hold on to and keep you steady when you hear the price… SAI Peregrinus: That price! It costs less than half the price of a condo in Brooklyn, NY! (Search on Zillow, sort by price high to low. Pg 20 has a few for $2.7M, several of which are 1 bedroom…) RoGeorgeRoGeorge: Wow, speechless! R Bhalakiya: THIS IS ALL VOODOO MAGIC Maic Salazar Diagnostics: This is majestic!! Sean Bosse: Holy poop. Bet it was hard keeping this quiet until the release. jonka1: Looking at the front end it looks as if the clock signal paths are of different lengths. How is phase dealt with? Is it in this module or later in software? cims: The Bugatti Veyron of scopes with a price to match, lol One scope to rule them all…wow! Keyesight drops the proverbial mic with this one Mike Oliver: That is a truly beautiful piece of equipment. It is more of a piece of art work than any other equipment I have ever seen. Gyro on EEVBlog: It’s certainly a step change in just how bad a bad day at the office could really get! TiN: I have another question, regarding the input. Are there any scopes that have waveguide input port, instead of very pricey precision 1.0mm/etc connectors? Or in this target scope field, that’s not important as much, since owner would connect the input cable and never disconnect? Don’t see those to last many cable swaps in field, even 2.4mm is quite fragile. User on EEVBlog: According to the specs, It looks like the 2 channel version he looked at “only” requires 1370 VA and can run off 120V. The 4 channel version only works off 200-240V The really interesting question: how do they calibrate that calibration probe. They have to characterize the imperfections in it’s output to a significantly better accuracy than this scope can measure. Unless there’s something new under the sun in calibration methodology? Mikes Electric Stuff @mikelectricstuf: Can I get it in beige? Yaghiyah @yaghiyah: Does it support Zone Triggering? User on Twitter: It’ll be a couple paychecks before I’m in the market, but I’d really be interested in some detail on the probes and signal acquisition techniques. Are folks just dropping a coax connector on the PCB as a test point? The test setup alone has to be a science in itself. I’d also be interested in knowing if the visiting aliens that you guys mugged to get this scope design are alive and being well cared for. Hi Daniel, just out of curiosity and within any limits of NDAs, can you go into how the design process goes for one of these bleeding-edge instruments? Mostly curious how much of the physical design, like the channels in the hybrid, are designed by a human versus designed parametrically and synthesized
21 minutes | 3 years ago
One Protocol to Rule Them All!? – #34
USB Type-C brings a lot of protocols into one physical connector, but is there room for one protocol to handle all our IO needs? Mike Hoffman and Daniel Bogdanoff sit down with high speed digital communications expert Jit Lim to find out. 0:00 This is Jit’s 3rd podcast of the series 1:00 We already have one connector to rule them all with USB Type-C, but it’s just a connector. Will we ever have one specification to rule them all? 2:00 Prior to USB Type-C, each protocol required it’s own connector. With USB TYpe-C, you can run multiple protocols over the same physical connector 3:00 This would make everything more simple for engineers, they would only need to test and characterize one technology. 3:30 Jit proposes a “Type-C I/O” 4:00 Thunderbolt already allows displayport to tunnel through it 4:30 Thunderbolt already has a combination of capabilities. It has a display mode – you can buy a Thunderbolt display. This means you can run data and display using the same technology 6:30 There’s a notion of a muxed signals 7:00 The PHY speed is the most important. Thunderbolt is running 20 Gb/s 7:15 What would the physical connection look like? Will the existing USB Type-C interface work? Currently we already see 80 Gb/s ports (4 lanes) in existing consumer PCs 9:20 Daniel hates charging his phone without fast charging 9:40 The USB protocol is for data transfer, but is there going to be a future USB dispaly protocol? There are already some audio and video modes in current USB, like a PC headset 11:30 Why are we changing? The vision is to plug it in and have it “just work” 12:00 Today, standards groups are quite separate. They each have their own ecosystems that they are comfortable in. So, this is a big challenge for getting to a single spec 13:15 Performance capabilities, like cable loss, is also a concern and challenge 14:00 For a tech like this were to exist, will the groups have to merge? Or, will someone just come out with a spec that obsoletes all of the others? 15:30 Everyone has a cable hoard. Daniel’s is a drawer, Mike’s is a shoebox 16:30 You still have to be aware of the USB Type-C cables that you buy. There’s room for improvement 17:30 Mike wants a world of only USB Type-C connectors and 3.5mm headphone jacks 18:30 From a test and measurement perspective, it’s very attractive to have a single protocol. You’d only have to test at one rate, one time 19:30 Stupid questions
23 minutes | 3 years ago
The Huge Challenge of Testing USB 3.2 – #33
USB 3.2 testing is darn hard! We talk compliance test specs, USB 3.2 testing BKMs, and pre-spec silicon. Guest Jit Lim sits down with Mike Hoffman and Daniel Bogdanoff to talk about the new difficulties engineers are facing as they develop USB 3.2 silicon. https://eestalktech.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/The-Huge-Challenge-of-Testing-USB-3.2-Electrical-Engineering-Podcast-33.mp3 Agenda: In the last electrical engineering podcast, we talked about how USB 3.2 runs in x2 mode (“by two”) This means there’s a lot of crosstalk. The USB Type C connector is great, but its small size and fast edges means crosstalk is a serious concern. When we test USB, we want to emulate real-world communications. This means you have to check, connect, and capture signals from four lanes. For testing Thunderbolt you always have to do this, too. Early silicon creators and early adopters are already creating IP and chips for a spec that isn’t released yet. 2:00 They’re testing based on the BKM (Best Known Method) 3:30 Jit was just at Keysight World Japan, where many people presented BKMs for current technologies. Waiting for a test spec to be released is not an excuse for starting to work on a technology. 4:50 How many companies are actually developing USB 3.2 products? The answer isn’t straightforward – the ecosystem is very complex and there are multiple vendors for a single system (like a cable). 6:30 Many USB silicon vendors will develop an end-product and get it certified to prove that their silicon will work. They then sell the silicon and IP to other companies for use in their products. 7:50 Daniel listened to an interesting podcast about how Monoprice reverse engineers complex products and sells them for cheaper: https://www.npr.org/sections/money/2014/11/28/366793693/episode-586-how-stuff-gets-cheaper 9:40 There are some BNC cables at the Keysight Colorado Springs site that were literally wire pulled and built in the building. 10:00 Has anything changed as USB technology advances? There are a lot of new challenges – multiple challenges, retimers, multiple test modes Testing retimers is nontrivial, they are full receivers and full transmitter. 11:30 When a new spec is developed, what does that look like? How far does the test group go when setting a new spec? The spec doesn’t look at how to test, it just looks it what it should do. Then, there’s a compliance test specification (CTS). This is developed by a test group, that looks at how things should be tested. So, there are two groups. the first asks “what should the spec be?” and the second asks “how do we test that group?” 13:30 How many people are testing USB 3.2? Even though the compliance test specification is not developed yet? There are non being shipped, but there is a lot of activity! 14:30 What are the main challenges? Basics. When you have 10 Gbps over copper on a PCB, people are failing spec! There are issues with some devices passing only intermittently. Especially over long cables and traces. 15:45 Cheap PCBs make things even more tricky. So, there’s very sophisticated transmitter equalization and even moire sophisticated receiver equalization. It’s crucial to keep the low cost PCB material and processes to keep the overall end-product cost low. Using higher end materials would dramatically increase the cost of consumer products. 17:30 The first TV Mike bought was after his internship at Intel. He bought a $30-ish 1080i TV for $1600. Now, you couldn’t give away that TV. 18:30 Stupid questions for Jit: What is your favorite national park and why? What is your favorite PCB material and why?
24 minutes | 3 years ago
USB 3.2 + Why You Only Have USB Ports On One Side of Your Laptop – #32
USB 3.2 DOUBLES the data transfer capabilities of previous USB specifications, and could mean the end of having USB ports on just one side of your computer. Find out more in today’s electrical engineering podcast with Jit Lim, Daniel Bogdanoff, and Mike Hoffman. https://eestalktech.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/USB-3.2-EEs-Talk-Tech-Electrical-Engineering-Podcast.mp3 1:00 Jit is the USB and Thunderbolt lead for Keysight. 1:30 USB 3.2 specifications were released Fall 2017 and released two main capabilities. USB 3.2 doubles the performance of USB 3.1. You can now run 10Gb/s x2. It uses both sides of the CC connector. In the x2 mode, both sides of the connectors are used instead of just one. 4:00 The other new part of USB 3.2 is that it adds the ability to have the USB silicon farther away from the port. It achieves this using retimers, which makes up for the lossy transmission channel. 5:00 Why laptops only have USB ports on one side! The USB silicon has to be close to the connector. 6:30 If the silicon is 5 or 6 inches away from the connector, it will fail the compliance tests. That’s why we need retimers. 7:15 USB is very good at maintaining backwards compatibility The USB 3.0 spec and the USB 3.1 spec no longer exist. It’s only USB 3.2. The USB 3.2 specification includes the 3.0 and the 3.1 specs as part of them, and acts as a special mode. 9:00 From a protocol layer and a PHY layer, nothing much has changed. It simply adds communication abilities. 9:55 Who is driving the USB spec? There’s a lot of demand! USB Type C is very popular for VR and AR. 12:00 There’s no benefit to using legacy devices with modern USB 3.2 ports. 13:45 There’s a newly released variant of USB Type C that does not have USB 2.0 support. It repurposes the USB 2 pins. It won’t be called USB, but it’ll essentially be the same thing. It’s used for a new headset. 15:20 USB Type C is hugely popular for VR and AR applications. You can send data, video feeds, and power. 17:00 Richie’s Vive has an audio cable, a power cable, and an HDMI cable. The new version, though, has a USB Type-C that handles some of this. 18:00 USB 3.2 will be able to put a retimer on a cable as well. You can put one at each end. What is a retimer? A retimer is used when a signal traverses a lossy board or transmission line. A retimer acquires the signal, recovers it, and retransmits it. It’s a type of repeater. Repeaters can be either redrivers or repeaters. A redriver just re-amplifies a signal, including any noise. A retimer does a full data recovery and re-transmission. 21:20 Stupid Questions: What is your favorite alt mode, and why? If you could rename Type-C to anything, what would you call it?
28 minutes | 3 years ago
Power Supply EMI + BW Woes – #31
Kenny shares his experience debugging 800 MHz EMC issues at an unnamed engineering site. The culprit? A power supply! Sometimes, that 1:1 probe just isn’t enough… Daniel Bogdanoff and guest host Erin chat with Kenny Johnson about the impact of power supplies on conducted and radiated emissions. https://eestalktech.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/Power-Supply-EMI-and-Bandwidth-Woes-31-1.mp3 Video: Links to discussed topics: Decoupling Capacitor Optimization for Power Integrity Webcast: https://www.keysight.com/main/eventDetail.jspx?cc=US&lc=eng&ckey=2908999&nid=-35724.0.08 Slides: Click to access 29March2018WebcastSlides.pdf How to Design for Power Integrity Video Series: Slides: Click to access 5_Power_Integrity_Ecosystem.pdf Kenny’s Favorite Probe https://www.keysight.com/en/pd-1938466/high-voltage-probe-10001-30-kv-50-mhz?cc=US&lc=eng Agenda: 00:00 Kenny likes textbooks 1:30 Kenny is a power integrity expert 2:00 Mobile device design is hard, Kenny feels bad for designers 2:15 Power integrity is coupled in with their radio, and makes it hard to pass EMI and EMC 3:20 EMI/EMC is failing, but: Hardware guy has good data Software guy has good software Power guy looks to have no issues 4:45 FCC, ETSI 5:00 Types of EMI and EMC are: Conducted emissions Radiated emissions 6:00 Example: The IoT processor is only clocking at 5 MHz, but the EMC engineer is picking up noise up to 750-800 MHz. And, the system is dropping bits. 7:15 The 1:1 passive probe was hiding the higher frequency noise. Then, they were able to trigger on the power supply and see the noise in the data line – power supply induced jitter. A common rule of thumb is to have 20 MHz of bandwidth, but that’s not always enough! 10:50 Optimizing decoupling capacitors. How to choose the right capacitors? Where to place decoupling capacitors? 11:50 Many complex components come with design guidelines (voltage regulators, capacitors, etc.). But, it shouldn’t be treated as law. 13:00 Helpful resources 13:40 If you’re working on more prosaic devices (they aren’t crazy fast), even if you aren’t having an EMI issue, the same part of the board that’s having the EMI issues can also pollute the antennas. 14:30 How much bandwidth should you get? 15:25 Kenny connects to his device at full bandwidth, then pulls up an FFT. Then, he bandwidth limits to where the FFT rolls off. 16:15 A new power rail probe goes out to 6 GHz. Why do we need this much bandwidth? Higher BW noise! 18:00 Kenny saw a startup hub in Boston. It had a lot of different startups that pooled their collective resources to get access to higher end test equipment. 19:00 Kenny feels like the free tools are good for qualitative measurements, but not for quantitative measurements. 20:46 – Adam Savage – “Buy the cheapest tool first. If you break it, go buy a nice one.” 21:30 Kenny is part of the inspiration for this podcast. 24:45 Stupid Questions: What’s the worst possible power integrity advice you could possibly give to someone? What’s your favorite probe and why?
3 minutes | 3 years ago
BONUS: EEs as Astronauts – Audio Exclusive
Astronaut Kay Hire answers the question: “What advice would you give to an engineer hoping to become an astronaut?” https://eestalktech.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/Electrical-Engineers-as-Astronauts-Audio-Exclusive.mp3
20 minutes | 3 years ago
Weather CubeSats – #30
We have surprisingly little knowledge of weather. When specifically does a cloud rain? How do these clouds form? We don’t have good answers to these questions. Getting those answers is an electrical engineering problem – one that a handful of professors and NASA are solving with CubeSats. Historically, we’ve used large satellites and ground-based systems to track weather patterns, but CubeSat arrays are becoming a viable option. In this episode, Daniel Bogdanoff sits down with the leading researchers in this area to hear about the challenges and advancements being made in this area. Interviewees: Charles Norton – JPL Engineering and Science Directorate POC Joel T Johnson – ECE Department Chair and Professor at The Ohio State University Christopher Ball – Research Scientist at The Ohio State University Dr. V. Chandrasekar (Chandra) – ECE Professor at Colorado State University Eva Peral – Radar Digital Systems Group Supervisor at JPL https://eestalktech.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/Weather-CubeSats-EEs-Talk-Tech-Electrical-Engineering-Podcast-30.mp3 Agenda Intro Space is changing. Big, expensive satellites used to be our only option. But, as you’ve probably heard on this podcast, when it comes to technology the world is always shrinking – and satellites are no exception. And that’s what we’re exploring today, specifically, the way cubesats (miniature satellites) are revolutionizing the way we look at earth’s weather. Hi, my name is Daniel Bogdanoff, and welcome to EEs Talk Tech. In our last episode, I brought you all along with me to Wallops flight facility in Virginia for a rocket launch. It was an eye-opening experience for me, and I wanted to cover more than was reasonable for a single episode. So today, we’re blending the style of last episode and our standard interview-style podcast. I sat down with some EE professors from Ohio State University and Colorado State University to talk about their cube sat projects – all of which monitor weather using radiometers or radar and are pretty high tech. I also apologize in advance for the background noise during the interviews, I’ve done the best I can to minimize the noise and voiceover parts I feel are hard to hear. I’ve also used clips from their NASA TV presentations wherever possible. Let’s get started, and hear a little bit about the advantages of CubeSats from Charles Norton. Advantages of CubeSats [1:05] Cubesats are nice not just because they’re cheaper and smaller. Thanks to the miniaturization of new technologies in both their physical size and their power consumption, we can deploy more systems, more rapidly, and at a lower cost. They also require smaller teams to develop and operate, and can even have higher measurement accuracy than existing assets. CubeRRT [3:51] At its core, CubeRRT is all about making radiometry measurements better by processing out man made emissions – leaving only the earth’s natural emissions. From NASA: “Microwave radiometers provide important data for Earth science investigations, such as soil moisture, atmospheric water vapor, sea surface temperature and sea surface winds. Man-made radiofrequency interference (RFI) reduces the accuracy of microwave radiometer data, thus the CubeSat Radiometer Radio Frequency Interference Technology Validation (CubeRRT) mission demonstrates technologies to detect and remove these unwanted RFI signals. Successful completion of the CubeRRT mission demonstrates that RFI processing is feasible in space, high volumes of data may be processed aboard a satellite, and that future satellite-based radiometers may utilize RFI mitigation.” TEMPEST-D [8:00] Instead of having a big satellite sitting in geosynchronous orbit, an array of CubeSats can be put in orbit such that they each pass over the same spot at set intervals. With some careful calibration, differences in the measurement equipment gets normalized out and they get good weather data. From JPL: “TEMPEST-D is a technology demonstration mission to enable millimeter wave radiometer technologies on a low-cost, short development schedule. The mission … reduces the risk, cost, and development duration for a future TEMPEST mission, which would provide the first ever temporal observations of cloud and precipitation processes on a global scale. For TEMPEST-D, JPL developed a mm-wave radiometer payload that operates at five channels from 89 to 182 GHz and fits in a 4U volume within the 6U CubeSat.” RainCube [11:47] & the Origami Antenna From JPL: “RainCube (Radar in a CubeSat) is a technology demonstration mission to enable Ka-band precipitation radar technologies on a low-cost, quick-turnaround platform. RainCube developed a 35.75 GHz radar payload to operate within the 6U CubeSat form factor. This mission will validate a new architecture for Ka-band radars and an ultra-compact lightweight deployable Ka-band antenna in a space environment to raise the technology readiness level (TRL) of the radar and antenna from 4 to 7 within the three year life of the program. RainCube will also demonstrate the feasibility of a radar payload on a CubeSat platform.” Foldable Antenna [12:20] 1.5U volume, Ka-band 35.75 GHz RADAR antenna. Why Measure Weather from Space? [15:00] These are just a few of the cubesat projects that went up on the OA9 rocket launch. To hear more about that, check out EEs Talk Tech electrical engineering podcast episode #29 – The Long Road to Space.
38 minutes | 3 years ago
The Long Road to Space – #29
I went for a rocket launch, and stayed for the science. Have you ever wondered what it actually takes to get a rocket into space? And why we go there at all? I hadn’t. Come with me on a behind the scenes tour of Wallops Flight Facility. Space balloons, sounding rockets, and a bonafide rocket launch! https://eestalktech.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/06/The-Long-Road-to-Space-EEs-Talk-Tech-Electrical-Engineering-Podcast-29.mp3 Links: Thank you again to Laurie Bonneau, John Mitchell, and John Huntington, NASA, and Orbital ATK/Northrup Grumman for letting me use your amazing photos! Check out Laurie B’s Flickr page here John M’s Flickr page here and John Huntington’s coverage of the launch. Keysight oscilloscope probe promotion here. Agenda: 0:00 – Getting to Wallops Flight Facility 4:40 – “What’s on Board” Science Briefings 8:03 – CubeSats 9:32 – Concrete in Space? 11:10 – Cold Atom Laboratory and Bose Einstein Condensates 15:09 – Launch Pad 0A Visit 15:50 – Horizontal Integration Facility (HIF) 19:29 – Range Control Center 21:23 – Space Balloons 24:25 – Sounding Rocket Machine Shop and Test Lab 28:53 – Astronaut Kay Hire 31:04 – OA9 rocket launch day! Transcript: On the Virginia coast, hours away from any major airport, you’ll find what appears to be a sleepy little town. It’s not a tourist town or a beach town, that’s further down the road. Driving through, you’ll see an abandoned roller rink and billboards for opioid abuse programs, a retro country radio station, and the seafood restaurant in the next town over. There’s a single diner is nestled in a gas station, right across the street from a house with a half dozen American flags and a huge “support our troops” sign in the front yard. But when you drive a little further, you might start to wonder if there’s more to this town than meets the eye. Down the road from the diner is the smallest Lockheed Martin building I’ve ever seen. Drive a minute longer, and the forest clears. Immediately, you know there’s more to this town. Your eyes are first drawn to giant satellite communication antennas, and then to radar installations and what look to be airplane hangers emblazoned with the NASA logo. Of course, all of this is surrounded by fences with stern warnings for trespassers and loiterers – keeping gawkers at bay, leaving them to wonder what’s going on in there. Thanks to you, who follow us on YouTube and the EEs Talk Tech podcast, I wasn’t left to wonder. And now, neither are you. NASA granted me and select others special access to tour the facilities. So, what is this place? Turns out, it’s a lot of things. The most exciting role of this place, for me anyways, is that it’s the site of Antares rocket launches. Twice per year, this sleepy, backwoods town wakes up with a start. The world’s top engineers, scientists, and researchers flock to the town. Wide-eyed high school students working the counter at the lone diner try desperately to feed a line of people that stretches out the door. The hotels in the area are completely booked. Because this weekend, we’re going to space. Have you ever wondered what makes a place like this tick? There’s an entire economy and ecosystem dedicated to keeping it afloat. I always thought the rocketry aspect was the main attraction, but never gave much thought to the actual point of it all. Space is pretty cool, but what does humanity actually gain by getting there? That’s what we’re going to look at today. We’re going to explore the science. Go past those warning-ridden fences. Take a look at some of the projects that get a lot of press, and some that are less glamorous. Then we’re going to look at how those projects get deployed. And yes, that includes a rocket launch. Here we go. Day 1. It’s Friday, May 18th. For me, it means travel day. One of the reasons Wallops Flight Facility is a great location is that there’s, quote “virtually unimpeded airspace.” For visitors, this means you have to drive from your major airport of choice for at least a couple hours. So, it’s gonna be a long day. I figure I’ll leave home around 7 AM and arrive at my hotel roughly 16 hours later. It’s a long day for domestic travel, but what’s a guy to do? As the plane doors close at the gate in Denver, I find out the launch has been delayed 24 hours for additional spacecraft inspections. It’s too late to get off the plane, so I shrug, text my wife that I’m going to be another day on the road, and mentally score one point for fate. Fate 1, Daniel 0. From what I hear, though, delayed launches are just part of the process. No one wants a failed launch. When I land in DC it’s raining pretty hard, and I decide I don’t really want to cram in a few hours of driving. So I scramble to re-arrange lodging, and catch a movie before bed. Take that, fate. Day 2. Saturday. I drive from DC to the coast, and start to wonder if I’m really in the right place. I check my phone map, and it says I’m on track. Once the woods clear and I see the com arrays and the hangers with the NASA logo, I know I’m in the right place. After showing a couple forms of ID to an armed federal agent, I get my pass and am ushered into the day’s event – the “what’s on board” mission briefing. This is when I start to think about more than just the rocketry. Scientists from around the country show off their experiments, which have been loaded into the Cygnus spacecraft, attached to the Antares rocket, and are about to be delivered to the ISS. They’re being delivered on the OA-9 cargo mission, which is why I’m in town. OA9 is completely run by Orbital ATK. Orbital ATK is one of the two commercial companies with NASA launch contracts. The other is SpaceX. But, don’t compare them to Space X, it’s a bit of a touchy subject around here. Back to the experiments – which NASA likes to call “investigations.” Technically, an experiment’s goal is to prove or disprove a hypothesis, and an investigation is more about gathering data. Potayto potahto. There are over a thousand kilograms of investigations headed to the ISS this weekend. Access to space gives scientists and engineers the ability to test things that simply aren’t possible on earth. There’s the height advantage – we can look at more of the earth at once without the curvature getting in the way. There’s the obstruction advantage – we can see things without the earth’s atmosphere getting in the way. And there’s the gravity advantage – namely, we can sustain a microgravity environment for more than a dozen seconds. The investigations being presented also showed me the breadth and diversity of investigations taking place in space. To give you a taste, here are my personal favorites that are a part of this mission. Full disclosure, I’ll likely be too casual with some of these terms, so feel free to correct me in the YouTube comments or at EEs Talk Tech.com: There’s a DNA/RNA sequencing kit designed to find unknown microbes on the international space station. It’s called “Biomolecule Extraction and Sequencing Technology” investigation, or “BEST” for short. In my opinion, this is the best acronym. They can find most of the bugs on the ISS with their current, culture-based processes, but this kit will allow them to find other microbes. It will also let them track mutations of known microbes – apparently spaceflight causes genetic, epigenetic, and transcriptomic changes. There’s also a sextant for navigation practice, and some medical tools to monitor astronaut’s eyesight. Apparently long term spaceflight messes with people’s eyes. You know, they’ve seen things… There’s a liquid separation tool that uses capillary forces to separate flowing liquids. Normally, you’d have to let liquids settle (think oil – vinegar salad dressing), but this does it while liquids flow. Speaking of salad dressing, there’s an enhanced vegetable grower on board, too. Astronauts will record the flavor and texture of the plants, and their results will be compared to a control sample in Houston. Apparently, even salad is an investigation in space. Another interesting part of the payload is an array of CubeSats – dubbed “CubeRRT”- aimed at measuring the earth’s RF emissions to mitigate environmental noise. Microwave Radiometers, a tool used to gather environmental data like seawater salinity, temperature, and humidity are extremely sensitive to the emissions. Because of earth noise and increased spectrum use, the radiometer measurements are becoming noisier and noisier – and will possibly become unusable in the not-to-distant future. The goal of these cubesats is to monitor these environmental factors and create a system to remove noise in real-time. When I sat down with the professors responsible for the program, they mentioned that the emissivity of water was a deciding factor in earth noise. Sensitivity to water vapor peaks around 24 GHz, which is right in the middle of the allocated spectrum for these tools. Vegetation and soil moisture also play a role. So, CubeRRT will be able to measure earth-noise from 6 GHz to 40 GHz. If you want to hear more about this topic, I sat down for an interview with this team that will be a future podcast – assuming my recording worked out. There was also a concrete project – concrete formation is a pretty well defined terrestrial science, but it’s not well defined in a microgravity environment. Astronauts will mix concrete, let it set, and send it earthward for analysis. The findings of this project are the first stages of exploring construction options for the moon and mars. Can you use Martian soil to make concrete? We’ll see. Finally, the coldest known spot in the universe will soon be the ISS. Led by Jet Propulsion Laboratories, five different research teams will sh
16 minutes | 3 years ago
DDR5 Rx Testing is a Whole New Ballgame – #28
Receiver testing (Rx) was never a concern for DDR design. Until now. The margin for error ran out, and now Rx testing is getting standardized. We sit down with Stephanie Rubalcava to explore the challenges of this new ground. Video: Audio: https://eestalktech.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/ddr5-rx-testing-with-the-experts-28-ees-talk-tech-electrical-engineering-podcast.mp3 Agenda: 1:00 This is the first time in the industry that high-accuracy, standardized receiver measurements need to be done 2:20 DDR is very different from traditional memory in terms of testing 3:10 Process of getting specs defined 3:50 What a DDR receiver test (DDR Rx Test) looks like 4:50 Even being just 100 mV off when testing can make a part appear to fail 5:20 The BERT sends out a signal to test the channel, but what’s really being tested is the DIMM and device’s ability to receive data under certain conditions 6:30 Receiver types across different devices? There’s a DQS data clock signal, and a data signal. There are also command and address lines in DDR. 6:50 For Rx testing, we’re calibrating the signal going into the receiver 7:30 JEDEC develops a lot of the testing standards 8:10 Two components of test standards: compliance and characterization. Compliance asks “do I meet the spec?” Characterization asks “how well does my system perform, and where is my fail point?” 9:35 Receiver test as whole is a challenge for engineers They need new kinds of calibration, DDR fixtures, and tests. 12:20 DDR Transmitters (DDR Tx) are progressing with DDR5 as well as receivers. We do have the DDR Tx history testing all the way back to DDR1. There are similar specifications for characteristics of DDR transmitters and DDR receivers. 13:20 DDR Transmitter testing is at “the ball of the part” and checks for signal characteristics.
34 minutes | 3 years ago
Battlebots 2018 & the Hardcore Robotics Team – #27
“I tend to not turn Tombstone on outside of the arena. It scares the crap out of me…” – Ray Billings, Hardcore Robotics team captain. We sit down with BattleBots’ resident bad boy to talk about the engineering behind the world’s meanest fighting robots. We also talk robot carnage. Because we know you’re really here for robot carnage. https://eestalktech.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/battlebots-2018-and-the-hardcore-robotics-team-ees-talk-tech-electrical-engineering-podcast-27.mp3 Agenda: 00:03 Ray Billings leads the Hardcore Robotics Battlebots team, and is the “resident villain” on Battlebots. 00:40 Mike went to high school with Ray’s son 01:15 Ray’s robot, “Tombstone” is ranked #1 on the Battlebots circuit. Highlights here. 1:34 The winner trophy for Battlebots is a giant nut. 2:00 Ray doesn’t turn on the robot very often outside of the arena 2:35 Ray’s carnage story: he bent a 1” thick titanium plate 3:20 You have to see combat robots live to get the full experience 4:10 The first match of Battlebots 2018 should be one of the most epic Battlebots fights of all time 4:30 Ray has done over 1,000 combat robot matches in 17 years 5:00 How Ray got into Battlebots 6:25 The main robot is called an offset horizontal spinner. It spins a 70-75 lb bar at 2500 rpm. 7:40 The body is 4130 choromoly tubing. The drive motors were intended for an electric wheelchair, and the weapons motor is from an electric golf cart. 8:20 Normal electrical motors are not designed to work for combat robots. Ray significantly stresses the motors. 8:50 The weapon motor was designed to be used at 48V 300A, but Ray uses it at 60V and 1100A (at spinup). This would overheat and destroy the motor, so it shouldn’t be done long-term. 9:40 – 70-80kW at spinup, and no start capacitor. He just uses a big marine relay. 10:00 Ray’s robot has 1 second to be lethal 10:30 If there’s a motor-stall potential mid match, Ray will turn off the motor to save batteries/electronics 11:00 What’s the weak point of Ray’s robot? One match, the weapon bar snapped in half. 11:40 Ray uses tool-grade steel, so it won’t bend, it’ll just snap. 12:40 The shock loads can break the case. The weapon motor looks like it’s rigidly mounted, but because it’s on a titanium plate it has some shock absorber. There’s also a clutch system in the sprocket to help offset shock. 13:40 Ray’s robot has to take all of the force that the opponent’s robots do (equal and opposite), but if it’s coming in a direction you want vs. one you don’t want you can design-in protection. 14:40 What test challenges were faced during assembly and design? It’s been highly iterated. There are no shortcuts for designing combat robots. You have to see where something breaks, then adjust. 15:45 When Ray started in 2004, his robot was just a “middle of the pack” robot. With years of iteration, it’s now a class-dominant robot. 16:45 Ray spins up the robot at least once before a competition. It’ll pick up debris from the ground and throw it around. 17:50 Battery technology and batteries for combat robots: Originally they used lead acid batteries for their current ability. Now, almost everyone uses Lithium chemistry. The sport is about power-to-weight ratio, so the lighter batteries have given people much more flexibility. 19:00 Why aren’t there gas powered combat robots? There are some that have flamethrowers, and there are a couple gas powered ones. However, they aren’t as dependable. 20:15 Ray has wrecked arenas. The arena rails are 1/2” steel, and Ray can cut a soda-can sized hole in them. He’s wrecked panels and ceiling lights. 21:20 Combat robot communication systems: today everything runs on 2.4 GHz digitally encoded systems. They often use RC plane controls because they are highly customizable and there are a lot of available channels. 22:00 Drive systems: the wheels & motors come together. They use a hard foam in the tires so you can’t get a flat. 22:45 Centrifugal force – not a huge problem because the blade spins in-plane. But, when he gets bumped up the blade fights gravity before it can self-right. 24:40 The rest of the Hardcore Robotics team is three people.. The team is Ray, his son (Justin), and his friend Rick. Rick used to run his own team, but has more fun fabricating and building robots than he does driving them. 25:30 There will be 6 fights/hour, and the show will be on the Discovery channel and the science channel premiering May 11th. 26:15 The first fight got leaked in some promo footage, Tombstone vs. Minotaur. 26:35 Would Ray rather fight a good robot or a bad one? Ray says “anyone.” Battlebots 2018 (season 3) will have “fight card” fights, then a playoff of the top 16 robots. 27:50 A given frame only lasts an event or two before needing to be replaced. This many fights is really hard on the robot. 29:20 Combat robot kits are a great way to get into the sport, especially ant-weight and beetle weight kits. 30:00 Stupid questions 31:15 Ray wants to try a new hammer robot, a full-shell spinner, and a vertical spinner. 32:40 Support Ray by getting Hardcore Robotics gear from battlebots.com and the toys from Target, Amazon, hexbugs, etc. 33:15 Ray is also an engineer at Intel.
32 minutes | 3 years ago
Secret Specs, LPDDR5, and Interposers – #26
Keeping specs secret is just part of the job. Getting a usable, working spec is another. We sat down with Jennie Grosslight to learn why JEDEC guards a spec, the basic DDR architecture, and geek out about the challenges of probing DDR. Hosted by Daniel Bogdanoff and Mike Hoffman, EEs Talk Tech is a twice-monthly engineering podcast discussing tech trends and industry news from an electrical engineer’s perspective. https://eestalktech.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/secret-specs-lpddr-and-interposers-26-ees-talk-tech-electrical-engineering-podcast.mp3 Agenda: 1:00 How are electrical engineering and protocol specifications defined? 2:00 Bigger companies tend to drive specifications because they can afford to put money into new products Sometimes small or midsize companies with an idea can make something new happen, but they have to push it 2:50 Most memory technologies have a couple players: 1. The chipset and the memory controller industry 2. The actual devices that store data (DRAM) 3:30 There’s a tremendous amount of work between all the players to make all the parts work together. 5:00 Why JEDEC keeps information about new products private as they’re being developed: If you spread your information too wide then you can get a lot of misinformation. Fake news! Early discussions also might not resemble the end product 6:20 DDR5, LPDDR, and 3D silicon die stacking are new and exciting in memory 7:00 We keep pushing physics to new edges 7:20 Heat management in 3D silicon is a big challenge 8:20 LPDDR5 is the new low power memory for devices like cell phones and embedded devices 9:10 5G devices will likely depend on low power memory 10:20 Once the RF challenges of 5G are figured out there will be even more challenges on the digital side. Systems have to deal with large bandwidths and low latencies 11:10 Higher performance and lower power is driving development of LPDDR5 It will be interesting to see if improvements are made in jumps or very slowly 12:00 Dropping voltage swing and increasing speed both make the eye smaller Making the eye smaller makes you more vulnerable to crosstalk 12:20 – Completely closed eyes for DDR5 13:00 How to probe DDR? We use a lot of simulation because the circuits are so sensitive 14:20 Crosstalk is often a problem when making DDR and LPDDR measurements 14:50 Economics drives everything so new technology is often based on existing systems 15:40 What comes next is up to who comes up with the best idea 16:40 What will drive change is when the existing materials can no longer meet performance 17:50 Power is important for big data farms as well as cell phones 19:50 GDDR and DDR 21:00 Chipset rank on a DIMM The pieces share a common data bus so you need to know the order to properly test 24:20 DIMM interposer used for logic measurements for servers 25:50 With a scope a ball grid array is used under a device or the pins are probed Oscilloscope interposers are available that work similarly to the logic analyzer interposers The logic analyzer looks at all the signals at once, typically the oscilloscope only looks at a few 28:10 When testing you want to validate that the device followed the protocal in the right sequence 29:10 Data rates of DDR DDR5 is supposed to get to 6400 MT/s
25 minutes | 3 years ago
DDR5 and 3D Silicon – #25
“You reach critical certain thresholds that are driven by the laws of physics and material science” – Perry Keller DDR5 marks a huge shift in thinking for traditional high-tech memory and IO engineering teams. The implications of this are just now being digested by the industry, and opening up doors for new technologies. In today’s electrical engineering podcast, Daniel Bogdanoff and Mike Hoffman sit down with Perry Keller to discuss how engineers should “get their game on” for DDR5. Audio: https://eestalktech.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/ddr5-and-3d-silicon-ees-talk-tech-25.mp3 Sign up for the DDR5 Webcast with Perry on April 24, 2018! Agenda: 00:20 Getting your game on with DDR5 LPDDR5 6.4 gigatransfers per second (GT/s) “You reach critical certain thresholds that are driven by the laws of physics and material science” – Perry Keller 1:00 We’re running into the limits of what physics allows 2:00 DDR3 at 1600 – the timing budget was starting to close. 2:30 With DDR5, a whole new set of concepts need to be embraced. 3:00 DesignCon is the trade show – Mike is famous for his picture with ChipHead 4:00 Rick Eads talked about DesignCon in the PCIe electrical engineering podcast 4:40 The DDR5 paradigm shift is being slowly digested 4:50 DDR (double data rate) introduced source synchronous clocking All the previous memories had a system clock that governed when data was transferred. Source synchronous clocking is when the system controlling the data also controls the clock. Source synchronous clocking is also known as forward clocking. This was the start of high speed digital design. At 1600 Megatransfers per second (MT/s), this all started falling apart. For DDR5, you have to go from high speed digital design concepts to concepts in high speed serial systems, like USB. The reason is that you cant control the timing as tightly. So, you have to count on where the data eye is. As long as the receiver can follow where that data eye is, you can capture the information reliably. DRAM doesn’t use an embedded clock due to latency. There’s a lot of overhead, which reduces channel efficiency 9:00 DDR is single ended for data, but over time more signals become differential. You can’t just drop High Speed Serial techniques into DDR and have it work. The problem is, the eye is closed. The old techniques won’t work anymore. 10:45 DDR is the last remaining wide parallel communication system. There’s a controller on one end, which is the CPU. The other end is a memory device. 11:15 With DDR5, the eye is closed. So, the receiver will play a bigger part. It’s important to understand the concepts of equalizing receivers. You have to think about how the controller and the receiver work together. 12:20 Historically, the memory folks and IO folks have been different teams. The concepts were different. Now, those teams are merging 13:00 DDR5 is one of the last steps before people have to start grappling with communication theory. Modulation, etc. 14:10 Most PCs now will have two channels of communication that’s dozens or hundreds of bits wide. 14:45 What is 3D silicon? If 3D silicon doesn’t come through, we’ll have to push more bits through copper. 3D silicon is nice because you can pack more into a smaller space. 3D silicon is multiple chips bonded together. Vias connect through the chips instead of traces. The biggest delay for 3D silicon is that it turns on its head the entire value delivery system. 7 years ago, JEDEC started working on wide IO 17:15 What’s the difference between 3D silicon and having it all built right into the processor? It’s the difference between working in two dimensions and three dimensions. If you go 3D, you can minimize footprint and connections 18:45 Flash memory, the big deal has been building multiple active layers. 19:45 The ability to stack would be useful for mobile. 21:45 Where is technology today with DDR? DDR4 is now mainstream, and JEDEC started on DDR5 a year ago (2017)
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