Listen Now

Gabe Vecchi’s research spans a remarkably wide range of topics: he started as an oceanographer, and studied intraseasonal variability in the Pacific, before moving to the Indian Ocean, and then, when he moved to Princeton in the 2000s, to a range of atmospheric problems, including a critically important paper on the influence of global warming on the tropical Walker circulation. And then Gabe got into hurricanes, a topic on which he’s been a key player for a decade and a half now. He has made important contributions not just on those topics, but on a dizzying array of others that one can see on his truly remarkable publication list. Gabe’s work spans ocean and atmosphere, tropical and extratropical, weather and climate, basic and applied, and nearly every other dichotomy in this field one can think of. In fact, Gabe says that to keep things fresh, scientists should be forced to change the topics they work on every 10 years. He himself certainly loves to seek out new problems and projects, but he somehow manages to do that without having to drop the old problems he used to work on. Hallmarks of Gabe’s work, and as you’ll hear, Gabe himself, are freshness, openness to new ideas, and openness to what the data say for that matter, and overall the lack of pretense that he brings to science, and to life. Gabe’s story really starts in Venezuela. After being born in Boston, he spent most of his childhood there, moving back to the USA, and New Jersey in particular, when he was 16, fleeing the runaway inflation, deterioration of living standards, and other difficulties that came with the Chavez regime. You can’t hear Gabe’s Venezuelan background in his perfect American accent, which he describes learning from TV shows as a high school student. But it gives him a particular perspective on what’s happening in the US now, and at the end of the episode he and Adam get into what the US democracy’s accelerating failures do and don’t have in common with Venezuela’s. Gabe’s scientific career led him from his undergraduate studies at Rutgers to graduate school at the University of Washington, and then from NOAA’s Pacific Marine Environmental Laboratory in Seattle to its Geophysical Fluid Dynamics Laboratory in Princeton. He was a civil servant for a number of years before moving across the street a few years ago to become professor in the Geosciences department at Princeton University, where he’s also Director of The High Meadows Environmental Institute and Deputy Director of the Cooperative Institute for Modeling the Earth System. Apart from talking about science, Gabe and Adam also discuss the challenges of communicating their science to the media, what kinds of climate science do and don’t matter to real-world mitigation or adaptation efforts, and other issues that they’ve both struggled with. And Gabe gives advice on how to make important decisions: "So many of the things that affect the paths that we take are so totally out of our control, even totally invisible to us, that spending too much time planning beyond making sure that you're not making a really obviously bad decision is, I think, a waste of energy. And it keeps you from discovering things." He applied that decision-making philosophy for example when he had to decide where he wanted to go for graduate school: "I had winnowed down the choice to two places. One was Washington and one was another place on the West Coast. And so, the reason I chose Washington... And this I'll stand behind. This is the way to make decisions. I winnowed it down to two good options, and then I chose something almost arbitrary to make the distinction, and what I chose was where my dog would be happier. [...] Moving past the decision as fast as possible and in a way that was as amusing and stress-free as possible to me was the way to do it. So, thinking about what my dog would have wanted was that." Besides being an amazingly productive and influential scientist whose impacts are both broad and deep...

In-Sik Kang’s career in climate science started about half a century ago, and it has been remarkable in many ways—scientifically, but also in that In-Sik has spent most of his life in a country that started from very little, in climate science and every other way, having been devastated by war right at the start of his life. In-Sik is a long-time global leader in climate modeling, climate variability, seasonal climate prediction and atmosphere-ocean interaction. He built a large and amazingly successful group over several decades as a professor at Seoul National University. At SNU, he and his students built an original atmosphere-ocean general circulation model, or climate model, one of very few University groups to do that in-house in the modern era where it tends to happen only in national labs, and they also turned this into a state-of-the-art seasonal prediction system. The many generations of students that he trained now fill academic and research positions in Korea, the US and elsewhere. Like almost no other scientist in the field, In-Sik has been a tireless organizer and builder of scientific collaboration and scientific institutions internationally. He has done this through service on many international committees and panels; through his long-time affiliation with the International Centre for Theoretical Physics in Trieste, Italy; and through his work as an advisor, formally and informally, to climate scientists in many developing countries. Having grown up in a poor country himself, In-Sik can relate to their struggles, but he is also keen to underline the importance of self-responsibility: "And then I ask them immediately, "Can you change your country? Can you change your institution? And can you change your professor? Of course, no, right? So that [means] you should change yourself.” Most recently he helped the founders of the Center of Excellence for Climate Change Research at the King Abdulaziz University in Saudi Arabia to get that center started. For all this work, in 2021 In-Sik was awarded the IMO prize, the highest award given by the World Meteorological Association. In-Sik’s family came from North Korea, but fled to the South just before his birth to escape communism and war. So In-Sik grew up in Busan, at the southern tip of South Korea, during a time when the country was poor to a degree that’s hard to grasp if you only know it from recent decades. But he got an education at SNU, the nation’s top University, became a weather forecaster in the military, and then, by a serendipitous connection, got admitted as a graduate student at Oregon State University in the US. He did so well there that he finished in just a little over 3 years, and got a postdoctoral position to work with Isaac Held at GFDL, despite not having published any papers yet. From there In-Sik got a faculty position back at SNU, and the rest is history. But In-Sik’s own story, as he’s the first to point out, runs parallel to, and in some ways exemplifies that of his country, as both rose from poverty and hardship to amazing, globally recognized success, through talent, intense hard work, and a profound belief in the importance of education. The interview with In-Sik Kang was recorded in February 2022. Image credit: SIO

Born to a space physicist father, Andy Dessler was steeped in science and academia from birth. Unlike other children of successful academics, he never perceived his father’s profession and the implicit expectations put on him as a burden, but soon decided that science was what he wanted to do as well. Andy describes how his career was strongly influenced, at many critical junctures (including where to go to grad school) by his dad. So this keeps with a little theme of parents and children that we seem to have this season. Andy and Adam are more or less contemporaries and have quite a few things in common. They both started out working in the stratosphere, on topics related to the ozone problem. In fact the first scientific seminar Adam went to as a new graduate student was given by Andy, right after his own thesis defense. So this was a conversation between two people who understand each other pretty well. The ozone problem was more or less solved by the time Andy was a postdoc, and so, wanting to be where the action was, he switched, and started working on tropospheric water vapor, and from there he got into climate change. This continues to be a theme in Andy’s research: he works on something for a while, but when he senses it’s tapped out, he changes direction, and he’s done this a few times. Perhaps all scientists do this, but Andy has done it more consciously and maybe more often than others. I tell graduate students that all the time, I say, "In 10 or 15 years, you're not gonna be working on this. So you need to learn how to do research." If you know how to do research, you can do anything, that's really the key: to come up with hypotheses, read the literature, do stuff like that... […] There's a huge amount of data out there, just mountains of data that you can download, and it's really exciting. I'm having a great time.” At least as much as for his scientific research, Andy stands out for his public engagement. For many years, he has been writing and speaking to broad audiences about climate. He has written blogs, op-eds, books, and he’s active on social media. He hasn’t shied away from the political, despite having told himself, early in his career, that he would. So he and Adam talk about how that happened, including the time he spent, early in his career, at the White House Office of Science and Technology Policy. In the last couple of years, Andy’s research has moved into climate impacts. He’s studying the Texas power grid, for example, and generally looking for ways to understand the risks due to extreme weather events and climate change, and to contribute to climate adaptation. Making this shift, at this point in time and in their careers, is another thing he and Adam have in common. The interview with Andy Dessler was recorded in February 2022.  @AndrewDessler on Twitter Andy's website at Texas A&M

Growing up on Long Island, Sandra Yuter loved to go on field trips—she learned about how glaciers had shaped the environment around her and was fascinated by how the resulting landscape still told the history of its geological past. The combination of scientific exploration and imagination that these field trips offered was something Sandra also drew to science fiction, another passion that she shares with Adam.Sandra has turned her interest in science into a career; she is a distinguished professor at the department of Marine, Earth and Atmospheric Sciences at North Carolina State University. Her research uses measurements made by remote sensors, including radar, satellite, and lidar, as well as in situ measurements, to understand processes in the atmosphere, especially those related to clouds and precipitation. And occasionally, she even gets to be a bit of a science fiction writer herself:And it turned out I was particularly good at writing proposals and my lab manager [...] explained that proposal writing is a lot like writing science fiction because you're basing it on what's here today, but you're sort of pushing the technology a bit. […] If you think about my interest and all my background reading in hard science fiction, which is what's gonna be going on 10 years from now, or 20 years from now, or 50 years from now, you could sort of translate that to, "Okay, given what we can do right now, what can we do two years from now or five years from now?"Sandra has made important advances on a wide range of meteorological problems, including the structure, dynamics, and cloud microphysics of deep convection in the tropics; shallow stratocumulus-topped boundary layers; and winter storms in the extratropics.Methodologically, Sandra’s work has contributed to the algorithms used to retrieve precipitation from satellite measurements, and to the diagnostic methods used to infer physical processes in precipitating clouds from radar observations. As one particularly prominent example, the contoured frequency by altitude diagram, or CFAD, that she conceived more than 25 years ago is now a standard and widely used diagnostic.As an "observationalist", Sandra has done a lot of field campaigns, and she talks here with Adam about some of the challenges of these campaigns, the decline of the routine observational network, and the way the prominence of climate "reanalysis" data sets (which are observation-based, but not literally observations) may have contributed to that.Later in the conversation, Adam and Sandra also get into the questions of how to do usable science and contribute to solutions to the climate crisis. Sandra’s view on this is informed by her early experiences doing science in the private sector, including at a defense contracting company before grad school. But more recently, like Adam, she’s been thinking more broadly about how to do science that may have a concrete impact. And that conversation leads them into solar geoengineering, the role of the private sector in climate and weather science, and other topics.I think atmospheric science has done a really good job of explaining and understanding the climate problem, but maybe we're not the solution, maybe the solution is more on the engineering side, and partly, that's just building buildings that are more resilient or moving infrastructure, or figuring out how to do carbon capture in a scalable way, or investing in fusion [...]. Maybe we should just say, "Hey, we've done a really good job explaining the problem, giving you the likely scenarios and the potential timing of those scenarios. But the actual more pragmatic solutions are not what we do."The interview with Sandra Yuter was recorded in February 2022. Image credit: Sandra YuterSandra's website at North Carolina State University

Chris Bretherton gravitated towards math and science as soon as he could read, which was at the tender age of three. His interest was probably the result of both genetics and family upbringing: Chris’ father is Francis Bretherton, a brilliant scientist who made important theoretical advances in fluid dynamics. This gave Chris big advantages, but he also talks about the shadow his dad cast over his career and the need he had to prove himself. "There are actually several other examples within our own field of father-son pairs who were relatively well-known. [...] So it's not actually that uncommon. And I suspect for all of the junior members of those partnerships, there's always been the struggle of, on the one hand, wanting to be different, and on the other hand, being endowed both through genetics, and also through basically family acculturation and upbringing with all the skills to actually be good at the same field." Because of his father’s work, Chris’ family moved from the UK to the US when he was eight years old. Chris’ fascination with math deepened over the years, but he also became interested in how to apply mathematical thinking to physical problems. He discovered the kind of physical problems that he would work on throughout his career when the family relocated to Boulder, Colorado, due to Francis Bretherton's appointment as the director of the University Corporation for Atmospheric Research (UCAR). "It really took fire when I was a high school student in Colorado and I joined the Colorado Mountain Club. Because of being a rock climber and a mountaineer as a teenager, I was always very aware of the weather, very concerned about the weather, and experiencing it and its extreme settings, and so it then became rather natural to gravitate towards that later." Chris has worked for his whole career on problems involving moist convection and clouds in the atmosphere, and the roles they play in the larger-scale weather and the climate. He made his name in the field for solving a major and fundamental problem involving shallow convection. In the 90s, using field observations and high-resolution models, Chris and his students figured out how the solid decks of low stratocumulus cloud over the cool subtropical oceans break up into much more scattered and taller cumulus clouds as the trade winds take them over warmer water. Since these low clouds were, and still are, poorly simulated in climate models, and yet they influence the global climate a lot because of the sunlight they reflect, understanding them is really important, and this work was a big breakthrough. Chris has made major advances on a wide range of other problems, including many aspects of deep convection in the tropics, and statistical methods. Recently, Chris left his long-held faculty position at the University of Washington to lead a climate modeling effort at Vulcan, the philanthropic organization of the late Microsoft co-founder Paul Allen. His team is using machine learning to make climate models better. It’s a big new direction for Chris and for climate science as a whole, and Adam and Chris get into that in the end of their conversation. The interview with Chris Bretherton was recorded in December 2021. Image credit: University of Washington College of the Environment Chris' website at the University of Washington, and the website of the research team at the Allen Institute for AI, where Chris ist the Senior Director of Climate Modeling

Jane Baldwin has just completed her first year as an Assistant Professor at the University of California Irvine. Her combination of interests is non-traditional, at least for someone coming up through the places and programs that she has. For one thing, Jane does straight up climate dynamics. One of her recent projects, for example, is about how mountains affect various aspects of the tropical climate. But Jane also has a strong interest in how climate affects people, and that leads her in some diverse and interdisciplinary directions. One thread of her research involves extreme heat events, and in that work she’s collaborating with experts in public health to understand the human impacts of those events. In another thread, one that she started during a postdoc in Adam’s group at Columbia University, Jane is looking at tropical cyclone risk. In particular, she is trying to translate tropical cyclone hazard, which means the probabilities of storms with given intensities, into the actual damage those storms would cause. Quantifying climate impacts like this is messy work. It isn’t based on any fundamental physical equations such as those describing the atmosphere or oceans. Often the kind of data or knowledge that would be important to have does not exist. To produce good studies of climate impacts, one needs to collaborate widely, and one needs to know the user and understand what they’re going to do with the results. But this is what it takes to bring knowledge to action, and Jane is serious about doing that. "I had a great time during my PhD, but I think something that weighed on me a little bit is that I felt like there was a bit of a hierarchy in that program [...] The people who do theoretical atmosphere dynamics, that's the peak of the pyramid, [...] and if you're really smart, that's what you should be doing […]. I think I'm still kind of coming to terms with who I am as a scientist and being like, yeah, maybe that's not my jam, but the stuff I'm doing is really cool, and I think as intellectually engaging just in different, maybe slightly different ways." Precisely because this work is so collaborative, interdisciplinary, and focused on objectives that are not purely academic, it’s not entirely obvious that universities know how to reward it. Adam and Jane talk for a while at the end about the potential risks a young academic might be taking by going in this direction. Before Jane became an academic, she had already gathered work experience in a completely different industry, when she interrupted her college education to work for a year as a fashion model. She talks with Adam about what that was like, what she learned during that year, why she did it in the first place and why she later decided to go back to school and become a scientist. The interview with Jane Baldwin was recorded in December 2021. Image credit: Jane Baldwin Jane's website at the University of California Irvine on Twitter: @janebaldwin

On her website, Kate Marvel describes her research like this: “I study climate forcings (things that affect the planet's energy balance) and feedbacks (processes that speed up or slow down warming). Our work here has shown that observational estimates of the Earth's sensitivity to greenhouse gases are probably biased low: assuming climate changes will be small is not a very good idea. We've also shown that human influences are already apparent in global drought patterns, cloud cover, and in the timing and amount of regional rainfall.” You can tell from that summary that Kate, besides being an excellent scientist, is also exceptionally good at communicating her work to the public. Kate has been on tv, on radio, in print, and in countless online fora, talking about the climate problem, as a whole, and many specific aspects of it. Kate translates the science, but more than that, she communicates the emotional reality of being a climate scientist who feels the urgency of global warming, in a way that’s honest and personal. She’s clear, compelling, and funny, and you’ll hear all that in this conversation. You might think that becoming famous for communicating effectively to large, broad audiences would help in one’s scientific career, but that isn’t necessarily the case. While many of her colleagues admire Kate’s public persona, she has the distinct impression that some disapprove, and that that has held her back professionally. Adam and Kate talk at length about that, and about how the bias in academia against popularizers is a special case of a more general problem: Namely, that scientific institutions prioritize research far above all else, and don’t know how to value many other kinds of work that make the institutions themselves better, and that increase the benefits that our research brings to the larger society. Kate came from theoretical physics, with an education in the US and the UK, and a stint in Zimbabwe along the way, before she made it into climate science and then to NASA GISS, down the block from Columbia in New York City. She thinks that the experience of working her way into climate science has sharpened her already existing ability to write and talk clearly, and to not be afraid of asking seemingly simple questions: “I think a lot of it came from very openly being an impostor. Being new to the field, coming into climate science from theoretical physics and not really knowing the jargon. Not really knowing the important questions in the field. […] And that, I think, forces you to be good at eliciting information, and it forces you to be good at communicating. […] And I do think that having no idea what was going on for a really long time and blundering my way around has forced me to get good at figuring out how we talk about what's going on.” The interview with Kate Marvel was recorded in November 2021. Kate's website at Columbia University, and her personal website  Kate giving a TED Talk in 2017, on "Can clouds save us from climate change?" (that's where her picture in this blog post is from) and here she is on Twitter: @DrKateMarvel

Kelly Hereid had never heard of reinsurance companies when she got recruited by one while attending a scientific conference. A quick Google search brought some clarification, and in the years since, Kelly has become an expert in the field of catastrophe modeling. This type of modeling was developed mostly in the private sector, driven by the need of reinsurance and insurance companies to quantify the financial risk from natural disasters such as tropical cyclones or earthquakes. In her current role as head of a research and development team at Liberty Mutual, Kelly needs to understand both the science of natural hazards as well as the business side, and she needs to be able to translate between the scientific community and the business community. Bridging this gap has become even more essential as the reinsurance industry is starting to think about how extreme weather events will impact their bottom lines with global climate change: "We have an office of sustainability that thinks about transition risk and climate strategy, and how we incorporate this massively changing world of climate risk into our business. And so that's actually an area that I spend a lot of time in now as well. […] And I talk a lot. Seriously, I do a lot of talks about climate change, catastrophes, and how we can incorporate them into the business. Because I want every single slice of our business to be educated and be able to speak coherently about how climate can affect their business." Before the conference that marked the beginning of her career in the private sector, Kelly had done a PhD in paleoclimate, dating dead corals and trying to learn something about the water conditions they had lived in. Coming from a family without any connections to the academic world, going to grad school was not an obvious choice for her at all, even though she had always been interested in science and wanted to become an entomologist as a child (but dropped that plan for fear of getting stung by bees). Luckily though it was obvious for one of her professors: "So one of my absolute favorite professors came up to me in my senior year [...]. And he was like, "Kelly, what are you doing next year?" And I'm like, "Well, I don't know. I haven't really thought about it." And he's like, "You are going to grad school." And he was the kinda person that you just... When they say a statement like that, you just don't argue with it. So I started going to grad school." When you hear Kelly talk, you won’t find it hard to imagine that she can be as convincing and effective in communicating as that professor has been – it’s a rare and much needed superpower for getting science and industry to collaborate. The interview with Kelly Hereid was recorded in October 2021. Kelly's personal website, and here she is on Twitter: @KellyHereid

Ousmane Ndiaye’s path to becoming the director of Senegal’s national meteorological service was an unlikely one: Born in Senegal as the youngest of 10 children, he lost his parents at a young age and was raised mostly by one of his sisters. That sister was deeply committed to her little brother’s education, and Ousmane ended up being the first in his family to start high school. But that was just the beginning of an academic career that led him from Senegal to Algeria, and then to the US, where he started a PhD at Columbia University. At Columbia’s International Research Institute for Climate and Society (IRI), he worked on developing better ways of predicting the west African monsoon a few months ahead of time. These forecasts are important for farmers, who can use them to inform their decisions on the types of crops they want to plant on their fields. Equipped with a doctorate, Ousmane decided to go back to Senegal rather than to pursue an academic career in the US – not an easy decision, especially since Ousmane already had a family with four children at the time of his graduation. But he had a strong desire to bring his knowledge back home, and to share it with the communities that could directly benefit from it. Ousmane understood that the value of the forecasts would be limited not just by how accurate they were, but by whether their potential users understood them and valued them, or not. And he also knew that in order for that to happen you have to understand the users and their needs. So when he got back to Senegal he started holding meetings with farmers, to learn how they think and how they work, and to develop practices of forecasting and forecast communication that would work for them. The meetings served a social purpose – they were a way of gaining the farmers’ trust and respect – as well as an educational one, with Ousmane explaining for example the probabilistic nature of forecasts: In the training, I was trying to explain to them that maybe sometimes our forecast can be wrong, and we have only probabilistic ways to estimate. We are not 100% sure […], it's just a likelihood, it's our best guess. I was […] trying to emphasize [that] again and again. There was an older farmer sitting back, and he just raised his hand while we were explaining, and […] he says: "Don't worry about it. We know that only God knows 100% what will happen. We know your forecast sometimes will go wrong." Ousmane’s work was successful, and in 2019 he became the director of Senegal’s national meteorological service, where he is responsible for everything related to weather and climate, and where he continues to use all his resources – his time, research, knowledge and connections – for the important work he’s doing. The interview with Ousmane Ndiaye was recorded in September 2021. Image credit: Vanessa Meadu (CCAFS)   Website of Senegal's national meteorological service, which is part of the country’s National Civil Aviation and Meteorology Agency (ANACIM)

To climate scientists, Isaac Held probably needs no introduction. He is one of the deepest and clearest thinkers in the field, and his insightful research on the dynamics of the Earth’s climate has earned him immense amounts of respect and appreciation.Isaac spent most of his long and distinguished career until his retirement in 2020 at the Geophysical Fluid Dynamics Laboratory in Princeton, one of the pioneering centers for climate modeling. He was born in 1948 in a refugee camp in Germany, from where his family emigrated to the United States just a few years after. Isaac’s father soon died, and so he and his brother were raised mostly by their mother, who always encouraged the two of them to do well in school – a "job" that Isaac took seriously, and that led him to discover and develop his natural talent for mathematics.At the University of Minnesota, he became fascinated with theoretical physics as a "wonderful application of mathematics to the real world", and he went on to go to graduate school in statistical mechanics at Stony Brook in New York. With the Vietnam war raging, however, Isaac started to question the importance of the research he was doing, and he eventually decided to switch to atmospheric and climate science. The rest, as they say, is history: Isaac produced field-changing contributions to topics such as the Hadley circulation, deep convection and tropical meteorology, water vapor and climate feedbacks, and tropical cyclones.In this episode, Isaac also talks about the importance of good writing in science, and how he has always aimed to explain his scientific research and ideas clearly and concisely. This aspiration becomes evident when reading one of his papers or his blog on climate dynamics (see here for a complete archive of blog posts), which is widely acclaimed both for its thought-provoking content and its lucid style of writing.His own life story has made Isaac keenly aware of the importance of random events and tipping points, which limit one’s control in ways both liberating and frustrating:"Something happens and your life goes one way or the other and that happens to all of us in one sense. [...] Some of life's unpredictability can be these huge events affecting large parts of the world, but it could also be these little things in your individual life that make a big difference as well, which are uncontrollable."Finally, Adam and Isaac talk about the interaction of science and politics, and about the possible impacts of climate change on human societies, on which Isaac has a slightly more optimistic view than Adam:"I think I'm a little bit of technological optimist, I don't know if that's quite the right word, but I can't believe that I can visualize what we'll be capable of in a hundred years, technologically, if I go back a hundred years."The interview with Isaac Held was recorded in September 2021. Image credit: NOAAIsaac's website at the Geophysical Fluid Dynamics LaboratoryHis blog on climate dynamics – note that the blog website will disappear soon, but you can find a complete archive here.

It's been a while since we released the last episode of Deep Convection, but Season 3 is finally here! We are starting the season with a "prologue episode" featuring Adam and Melanie. Adam asks Melanie how her life has changed since their Deep Convection conversation that was recorded 2.5 years ago (and, spoiler alert, some aspects of it have changed in quite unexpected ways), and Melanie asks Adam  how his views about life and the world have changed, and what role the podcast has played for him. Mostly though, this really is a warm-up for 10 more episodes of Deep Convection, the first one of which (with Isaac Held, one of the deepest and most original thinkers in climate science) will drop in just a bit more than a week!

When Shang-Ping Xie entered middle school in his home town about 300 miles southwest of Shanghai, China had just come out of the Cultural Revolution, the tumultuous political movement launched by Mao Zedong that had dominated Chinese life for a decade in the 1960s and 70s. That was lucky timing and a big turning point for Shang-Ping: If he had been a few years older, he might have been sent to the countryside after graduating from high school, to work on farms and learn about the rural life. But after the end of the Cultural Revolution, the universities reopened and a merit-based admission system was introduced, which allowed Shang-Ping to go to college to study oceanography (without ever having seen the ocean before!). From there he went to grad school in Japan, then to the US, then back to Japan for his first faculty position, then back to the US, eventually taking on his current position as a professor at the Scripps Institution of Oceanography in La Jolla, California. Shang-Ping's research covers a broad range of topics centered around atmosphere-ocean interactions and their role in climate formation, variability, and change. Some highlights of his incredibly prolific scientific career include the work that led to the formulation of the wind-evaporation-sea surface temperature feedback mechanism in the 1990s, and later his contributions to the discovery of the Indian Ocean capacitor effect, and to the development of the "warmer-get-wetter" idea for how rainfall will change with global warming. The driving force behind Shang-Ping's impressive scientific output is his deep curiosity and (to quote Richard Feynman) the "pleasure of finding things out", which have remained unaffected by the "daily grind" of academic life. How he has managed to do that is part of this conversation as well, along with his thoughts on climate change, and how his perception of it has evolved over the years. "For a period of time I was asking myself what’s beyond what I have done so far. Because at some point, I felt, I know a few things, I just couldn’t see what’s ahead. But I think somehow I was able to overcome this feeling now. Because [...] there are still a lot of puzzles. I feel like I know what I want to do for the next few years." The interview with Shang-Ping Xie was recorded in March 2021. Image credit: Nelvin C. Cepeda Shang-Ping's website at the Scripps Institution of Oceanography

Growing up in South Africa under apartheid, George Philander had to follow a lot of laws that didn't make sense to him, e.g., that he was not allowed to stand in the line for white people at the post office. When he discovered mathematics and science, he was happy to have found a world that was governed by rational and coherent laws."South Africa [...] was a strange place because of the apartheid policies. I basically lived in two worlds that didn’t really intersect. The one was the social world, which was subject to these strange laws. And at the same time, I was becoming a scientist, and the world of science seemed an escape from the irrationalities of the apartheid laws."George left South Africa in the 1960s to go to graduate school at Harvard, where he decided to move into oceanography. Apart from taking classes and doing research, he also continued to be interested in social concerns, and on weekends he would join people in protesting the war in Vietnam, or even the apartheid in South Africa.Despite all the differences between the U.S. and South Africa, George also sees some fundamental parallels between these two stages of his life:"So now I could again do the science and separate the social life [from it]. But the science was much more interesting, and the social life was much more interesting. So it was a somehow idealized version of what I had experienced in South Africa."After completing his PhD, George went on to do a postdoc with Jule Charney at MIT, before moving to Princeton where he spent the rest of his career, first at NOAA’s Geophysical Fluid Dynamics lab and then as a professor at Princeton University, from where he retired a few years ago. George is a giant in climate science and has made many important contributions to the field, but he is best known for his key advances in our understanding of the El Niño-southern oscillation phenomenon, or ENSO.Throughout the years, George has been thinking a lot about how science interacts with the larger world, and he has become convinced that we should not divorce our social concerns from our professional activities. That recognition even led George back to South Africa for a few years in the 2000s, where his goal was to instill an appreciation for nature in young people:"We’re so focused on the gloom and doom of global warming that we count on fear to persuade people to take care of planet Earth. And I would argue that instead of fear, they should do it out of love for the planet. But you can only love what you know, so they should really know something about the planet before we can expect them to take care of it."In this conversation, George also talks about the role of luck in people's lives and careers, about shortcomings of the educational system, and about living far from home.The interview with George Philander was recorded in February 2021. Image credit: Denise Applewhite, Office of Communications, Princeton UniversityGeorge's website at Princeton University

Suzana Camargo is one of the world’s leading experts on tropical cyclones — a type of storm that includes hurricanes — and their relationship to the climate. When she first started to do research on hurricanes, she thought it was only going to be a one-year project. But life is unpredictable, and so "[...] and then 20 years later, here I am, still doing hurricanes." Suzana's path to the hurricanes had not been a straight one: She began her academic career in plasma physics, and only moved into atmospheric science after giving up her job as a tenured professor in Brazil and moving to the US, where she took a position as staff associate at the then newly-founded International Research Institute for Climate and Society at Columbia University. This was a big change, and in many ways also a big step down, and it required a lot of work and persistence to firmly establish herself as a leader in the field, and to rise through the ranks to her current position as the first holder of the Marie Tharp Lamont Research Professorship at Columbia University. "[It] was a big change, [...] it was a lot, everything. It was moving countries, two small kids, changing fields. Everything was so overwhelming that I basically was, I felt like I was just going through the motions and trying to survive each day." The move from Brazil, where Suzana was born and raised, to the US had not been her first international move: Suzana had done her Ph.D. and postdoc in Germany, where she learned, among other things, that the hardest part in science is often to come up with a good research question, and that the Bavarian dialect sounds very different from the standard German. Over the last 20 years, Suzana has made important contributions to our understanding of how tropical cyclones are affected by natural climate variations, like El Niño; the influence of human-induced climate change on tropical cyclones, including the evaluation of simulations of tropical cyclones in climate models, and to the practice of seasonal climate forecasting of tropical cyclone activity. At Lamont, she and Adam have offices next door to each other, and the two of them have collaborated on many of these topics. The interview with Suzana Camargo was recorded in October 2020. Image credit: Suzana Camargo Suzana's website at Columbia University

Nadir Jeevanjee is one of those rare people who have both depth and breadth in their skills. He is probably the only person who ever wrote a textbook about tensors and group theory while taking a few years off from grad school to tour with a rock band, and that fact alone should make you want to listen to this interview. Nadir was born and raised in Los Angeles, and when he was 12 or 13, he got obsessed with music, especially with drumming. Towards the end of high school, he joined The Calling, a rock band that had a huge hit on the radio in the early 2000s. He went to college with the goal of becoming a professional musician, but found himself enjoying physics classes more than music theory, so much so that he embarked on a PhD in physics at UC Berkeley. About three years into it and struggling with a bit of a "mid-PhD crisis", Nadir left academia for what turned out to be four years, to tour the country with another band — that's when he wrote that textbook about tensors. Eventually, though, he finished his PhD and moved into atmospheric science. He is now a Research Physical Scientist at NOAA's Geophysical Fluid Dynamics Laboratory in Princeton, where he studies the physics of clouds, radiation, and climate, using a hierarchy of approaches ranging from pencil-and-paper theory to comprehensive computer simulations. His specialty is to condense the complexity of the atmosphere into simple, elegant frameworks that are tractable for human brains. Nadir is also deeply engaged in the communication of climate science to the wider world and confounded a group called Climate Up Close, which tries to make the essentials of climate science accessible to a broad audience and give people the opportunity to talk directly with climate scientists. "So I started to give public talks called "Climate Science: How Do We Know What We Know?", trying to focus on evidence and trying to de-emphasize the consensus on climate change. It's a very useful fact for people who don't know it, but for people who do know there's a consensus but aren't convinced by that, I think that beating them over the head with it if they've already heard it, I think can backfire. And so I wanted to try an approach where I just focused on the evidence. [...] And not only try to share a little bit of what we know about climate science, but also get face time." The interview with Nadir Jeevanjee was recorded in November 2020.  Nadir's website  His book, An Introduction to Tensors and Group Theory for Physicists Climate Up Close Three blackboard lectures on simple models in climate science, which Nadir gave in February 2018 in Princeton

Fran Moore, an assistant professor in Environmental Science and Policy at UC Davis, works at the intersection of environmental economics and climate science. She studies the impacts of climate change from an economic and societal perspective — how to quantify these impacts, and also how people and communities adapt. Fran grew up in London, but moved to the US for college, in part because she wanted to do "something a little bit broader" than what continuing her science-focused academic track in the UK would have allowed her to do. This desire to look at things holistically and from an interdisciplinary angle has become a hallmark of her work, in which she uses a variety of statistical methods, economic and climate models. Recently, she has even used Twitter data to understand what type of weather people think of as normal, and how that might be changing. In this interview, Fran also talks about what is valuable in human society, and how economists try to measure human well-being. And, she and Adam get into a broader conversation about the relation between science and politics, the roles of climate scientists and academics generally in the public sphere, and whether by doing research climate scientists are really helping anyone or not. "That was part of my motivation to move more into the social sciences. Because my view was, I think, recognizing that the big questions we need to motivate action on climate change, on the science side, have largely been answered. At least on the mitigation side. But there are still big questions, right?" The interview with Fran Moore was recorded in September 2020. Photo credit: UC Davis Fran's website at UC Davis Follow Fran on Twitter: @ClimateFran

Before Marshall Shepherd was bitten by the weather bug, he wanted to be an entomologist. But as luck would have it (at least for the fields of weather and climate science), Marshall changed his sixth-grade science project from honey bees to weather prediction after he had found out that he was highly allergic to bee stings. That science project marked the beginning of Marshall's passion for weather, which has led him to become professor of geography and atmospheric sciences at the University of Georgia. Marshall is particularly well known for his work on urban weather and climate, where he has shown that large urban areas can have a more substantial impact on the atmosphere than had been previously though — that is, cities can make their own weather to some extent. In addition to doing research and teaching, Marshall hosts his own podcast, Weather Geeks, which grew out of the award-winning Sunday talk show he did for some years on the Weather Channel. He writes a regular column for Forbes, and does a lot of service to the scientific community at the highest levels — e.g., he served as President of the American Meteorological Society in 2013.  In between all of these activities, Marshall regularly finds the time to testify before Congress and provide expertise to federal agencies. To Marshall, public outreach and service is an integral part of being a scientist: "I've actually been working or pushing really hard to try to advocate that engagement and service becomes more of a part of that sort of calculus for things like promotions and tenure because I don't view it as something extra when I do these things. I view it [...] as a synthesis of a broader mission that we have." The interview with Marshall Shepherd was recorded in August 2020. Photo credit: Nancy Evelyn Marshall's website at the University of Georgia, and his personal website His recently published book, The Race Awakening of 2020: A 6-Step Guide for Moving Forward The Weather Geeks podcast Marshall's TEDx talk on biases that shape our worldview Marshall's articles in Forbes

On August 29, 2005, Deanna Hence was aboard a research airplane flying through Hurricane Katrina, a Category 5 hurricane heading for New Orleans. Thinking back to that day, Deanna remembers feeling both elated and deeply worried at the same time — the scientist in her was excited about the extraordinary data the instruments on the plane were collecting, but she was also aware that the storm's impact on New Orleans would be devastating. This experience made her realize at a visceral level that science alone is not always enough: "And so it was that campaign which also made me realize something extremely important, that the best science is not of much use unless it gets to where it needs to go and comes in a form that it can actually be used. And so that's when I started really thinking  about the interface of science communication, policy, emergency management, all these different factors. [...] We as atmospheric scientists form one key component to that, but there's this whole larger framework that the information that we produce has to fit into in a way that's going to be usable by all those different stakeholders, so that they can work to, in this case, save lives." An Assistant Professor at the University of Illinois, Urbana-Champaign, Deanna studies tropical cyclones, particularly the structure of their rainbands. Her interests also include orographic rain in midlatitudes, and other aspects of cloud and precipitation physics. Growing up in the tornado-prone Dallas area, she became fascinated with extreme weather events at an early age, and got drawn into atmospheric science for real when she realized how much she enjoys participating in field campaigns like the one that gave her a close-up view of Hurricane Katrina. Deanna has also made questions of diversity, equity and inclusion in the Earth sciences a primary focus of her work — an unusual commitment for a young faculty member working under the pressures of "publish or perish", and in this interview she talks about that decision and its implications. The interview with Deanna Hence was recorded in August 2020.  Deanna's website with information on his research, papers, biography, etc.

Brian Mapes fell in love with cumulus clouds when he was looking out an airplane window during his first flight, on the way to Iowa to toil in the fields with his uncle. He was struck by their beauty, but also wanted to understand them scientifically.  In particular, Brian got interested in how clouds, which are relatively small, are related to weather systems that are much larger, and which is controlling which, how and to what degree. He took issue with the (then-)predominant idea in the field that turbulent convection and clouds are merely a passive response to the large-scale forcing. "They're just chiseled from marble, these Midwestern summer clouds. It's like landscapes, you could imagine romping and playing on them. Except they change every three minutes... It's like a time evolving landscape. I was just in love with it. And I felt that it had a great amount of life force or something. [...] Vigor, agency, life force. I felt like it was a thing that had some heart to it. And then you come, and so you go into that field of science and you come along and you discover the people running the show have decided that it's a too-complicated-to-care-about response to some forcing. And it drove me batty." Before becoming an atmospheric scientist, Brian studied chemistry at Caltech and spent his free time experimenting with explosives of all kind in the Mojave Desert. But he eventually decided to look for a less hazardous field and discovered his fascination with the atmosphere after moving back to his home state of Colorado. Over the course of his career, which has led him to become professor at the University of Miami, Brian has worked on a lot of different topics, but to him they are all manifestations of the one problem that interests him most, which is the problem of scale. "[...] it was just echoes and echoes of a philosophical question which is, what's the relationship between the individual and the collective? That's the one thing that interests me, and I play it out over here in meteorology, and I'm also fascinated with the social sciences and ecology and stuff, where... It's everywhere!" In this interview, you will also hear Brian talk about language and poetry in science, improv, and the role of the appendix in "body politics." The interview with Brian Mapes was recorded in January 2020.  Brian's website with information on his research, papers, biography etc. "Pattern and Meaning in Mesoscales", a seminar talk Brian gave at the University of Miami in February 2021

Vishal Vasan, an applied mathematician at the International Centre for Theoretical Sciences in Bangalore, India, thinks of himself as a “mathematical salesman”, who uses his mathematical tools and expertise to help potential collaborators in other fields. Vishal's particular interest are problems involving partial differential equations,their properties and behavior, and methods for solving them, whether on paper or on the computer. "This is at least my personal view of applied math. It's a service. I help other people. I helped people with their homework problems when I was a kid. And I help my colleagues with their math problems now. And if that’s what this leads to, helping other people with their problems, then sure. If I can help I’ll help." His eagerness to apply mathematics to real-world problems has led Vishal to work on a wide range of topics: condensed matter physics, optics, water waves  –especially, tsunamis – and recently also the Indian monsoon. Apart from solving mathematical and scientific problems, Vishal also likes to think and talk about political and societal issues, particularly those that concern his home country: "I think a lot of India’s problems are not sexy. Which is we don’t require grand solutions. We require things that most of the world has figured out. Toilets. Sewage treatment plants. Garbage disposal plants. I don’t think our problems for now are sexy." Having moved back and forth between India, the UK, and the US, Vishal is a perfect example of the internationality of science. Given his own global life trajectory, he is deeply interested in the question of how to form an identity and a sense of belonging in the midst of a tsunami of cultural influences, and in this interview he talks about that as well. The interview with Vishal Vasan was recorded in December 2019. Image credit: ICTS Vishal's website with information on his research, papers, biography etc.