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In the finale of our fourth season, John discusses therapeutic stance with Dr. Anton Hart who views openness as a key component of healing in the treatment room, especially in regard to societal trauma. Dr. Hart makes the case that foreknowledge is in opposition to curiosity and that curiosity is necessary to introduce new prospects to the therapeutic relationship. As a psychoanalyst, teacher and co-producer of the documentary Black Psychoanalysts Speak, Anton has a unique perspective on the usefulness of our language and how important it is to embrace complexity in a process that, when conducted with a posture of openness and curiosity, leads down endless paths of possibility. Support: www.patreon.com/betweenus Contact: betweenuspodcast@gmail.com Facebook: www.facebook.com/betweenuspodcast/ Twitter: twitter.com/BetweenUsPod Instagram: www.instagram.com/betweenuspod/ YouTube: www.youtube.com/channel/UC4pPUTf_wRjNxHcCsFJoSSQ Produced by John Totten and Mason Neely Music by Mason Neely Research Assistant: Rose Bergdoll

Carlos Padrón personifies the concept of psychoanalysis as applied philosophy. As a Venezuelan living in New York, he has witnessed both the horrors of the pandemic and the projections of the immigrant experience. Both phenomena challenge our American fantasies of purity and pit us face to face with that which unsettles us as the uncanny takes form. In a broad-ranging interview recorded last summer, Carlos discusses the political potentiality of psychoanalysis, its invitation to new possibilities, and how it shatters the illusion of ahistorical origins. Support: www.patreon.com/betweenus Contact: betweenuspodcast@gmail.com Facebook: www.facebook.com/betweenuspodcast/ Twitter: twitter.com/BetweenUsPod Instagram: www.instagram.com/betweenuspod/ YouTube: www.youtube.com/channel/UC4pPUTf_wRjNxHcCsFJoSSQ Produced by John Totten and Mason Neely Music by Mason Neely Research Assistant: Rose Bergdoll

Dr. Jonathan Shedler is dissatisfied. As both a researcher and a practitioner, he is frustrated with the misinformation that permeates the counseling field, much of it promulgated by an academia with little clinical experience. His contrarian voice is best known for his deconstruction of so-called “evidence-based therapy,” its research methods, and his staunch defense of psychodynamic psychotherapy. Since a seminal paper, a decade ago, he has separated himself from the psychological establishment, to educate everyday clinicians and the lay public on the tenets of psychoanalysis, the importance of the working alliance, and how the therapeutic relationship doesn’t require an instruction manual in order to transform lives. Support: www.patreon.com/betweenus Contact: betweenuspodcast@gmail.com Facebook: www.facebook.com/betweenuspodcast/ Twitter: twitter.com/BetweenUsPod Instagram: www.instagram.com/betweenuspod/ YouTube: www.youtube.com/channel/UC4pPUTf_wRjNxHcCsFJoSSQ Produced by John Totten and Mason Neely Music by Mason Neely Research Assistant: Rose Bergdoll

As we investigate the role of the therapist-as-citizen, John pauses to interview his own therapist, Lane Gerber, about their relationship and what it means to be useful- useful to our patients, useful to academia, and useful to our interpersonal worlds. Lane describes his experience growing up in a community of Jewish immigrants, what it was like to rebel against his family’s plan for his life, and how he made use of his time learning from renowned theorists Carl Rogers and Heinz Kohut as a young psychology student. In our first instance of a patient interviewing their own therapist, we explore the dynamics of therapist’s disclosure and what it means to each member of this particular dyad. Support: www.patreon.com/betweenus Contact: betweenuspodcast@gmail.com Facebook: www.facebook.com/betweenuspodcast/ Twitter: twitter.com/BetweenUsPod Instagram: www.instagram.com/betweenuspod/ YouTube: www.youtube.com/channel/UC4pPUTf_wRjNxHcCsFJoSSQ Produced by John Totten and Mason Neely Music by Mason Neely Research Assistant: Rose Bergdoll

This week we continue our conversation with Dr. Medria Connolly and Dr. Bryan Nichols on the psychological case for reparations. From white privilege and its deconstruction to the fantasy of American democracy, Dr. Connolly and Dr. Nichols shed light on some of our more provocative cultural issues, making it clear that we are not living in one America, that we have unfinished business as a society, and that even in their own academic origin stories, the systems in this country are replete with playing fields that require expansion. Support: www.patreon.com/betweenus Contact: betweenuspodcast@gmail.com Facebook: www.facebook.com/betweenuspodcast/ Twitter: twitter.com/BetweenUsPod Instagram: www.instagram.com/betweenuspod/ YouTube: www.youtube.com/channel/UC4pPUTf_wRjNxHcCsFJoSSQ Produced by John Totten and Mason Neely Music by Mason Neely Research Assistant: Rose Bergdoll

Dr. Bryan Nichols and Dr. Medria Connolly had collaborated for several decades when their discovery of Ta-Nehisi Coates shifted the course of their work to making the psychological case for reparations to the descendants of African-American slaves. As psychologists of color, they were intimately aware of the ghosts that haunt our society, even within their own field. What they discovered was a rich potential for healing that extends to Americans of all races, but not without the difficult confrontation of a vile history and the stubborn defenses of white America. Part one of a two-part discussion. Support: www.patreon.com/betweenus Contact: betweenuspodcast@gmail.com Facebook: www.facebook.com/betweenuspodcast/ Twitter: twitter.com/BetweenUsPod Instagram: www.instagram.com/betweenuspod/ YouTube: www.youtube.com/channel/UC4pPUTf_wRjNxHcCsFJoSSQ Produced by John Totten and Mason Neely Music by Mason Neely Research Assistant: Rose Bergdoll

It’s impossible to watch the news without witnessing the horrors sustained by people of color in America. The psychological traumas take a physical toll as well. Never has that been more clear than the covid-19 pandemic which has lowered African-American lifespan more than any other group of people. Ashley McGirt is a therapist and educator who works at the intersection of Black bodies and Black minds as a hospice counselor. Her experiences in a nursing facility and her dedication to her community led her to start the Washington Therapy Fund, a nonprofit that pays for the mental health treatment of Black folks in Washington state. She sat down with John last autumn to discuss that work and how she has taken the tragedies and traumas that have effected her family and community and turned those into action and advocacy. Support: www.patreon.com/betweenus Contact: betweenuspodcast@gmail.com Facebook: www.facebook.com/betweenuspodcast/ Twitter: twitter.com/BetweenUsPod Instagram: www.instagram.com/betweenuspod/ YouTube: www.youtube.com/channel/UC4pPUTf_wRjNxHcCsFJoSSQ Produced by John Totten and Mason Neely Music by Mason Neely Research Assistant: Rose Bergdoll

Between Us returns with Dr. Usha Tummala-Narra, an author and professor of counseling at Boston College. Dr. Tummala-Narra is our first guest in a series of interviews that ask the question, “Does psychotherapy address what is happening in the news?” Psychoanalysis has not always welcomed issues of culture and diversity. She believes there are theories that need updating and makes the case for a deeper investigation into how cultural narrative is experienced both consciously and unconsciously by the patient. Support: www.patreon.com/betweenus Contact: betweenuspodcast@gmail.com Facebook: www.facebook.com/betweenuspodcast/ Twitter: twitter.com/BetweenUsPod Instagram: www.instagram.com/betweenuspod/ YouTube: www.youtube.com/channel/UC4pPUTf_wRjNxHcCsFJoSSQ Produced by John Totten and Mason Neely Music by Mason Neely Research Assistant: Rose Bergdoll

This is a repost of our fifth episode featuring filmmaker Lynn Shelton who passed away May 16th, 2020. Originally posted in January of 2017. --------- There is no better week to discuss the brokenness of humanity. Lynn Shelton is a filmmaker whose films such as Touchy Feely and Your Sister's Sister capture her unique vision of regular people and the ubiquity of psychological pain. She also directs television shows such as Fresh Off the Boat, Casual, and Master of None. She sat down with John following a shoot and discussed her experience of mind and how it shows up in her work.

We are back from a long break for a one-off episode in which our hosts, John and Mason, discuss therapy in the time of coronavirus- how it changes the practice, how it changes the collective conscious, and how it brings into focus not the modality or technique, but the relationship.

Dr. Karen Maroda is an integral voice in contemporary relational psychoanalysis who has literally written the book on psychodynamic techniques. In the finale of our third season, she spoke with John Totten on a wide variety of topics ranging from current misconceptions of enactment, to when the therapist should withhold his expressions of love, and how we, as a community, are often ashamed of the anger we feel toward our patients. In this candid discussion, Dr. Maroda lays forth several challenges for psychotherapists in regard to both the importance with which we hold ourselves and the work ethic we bring (or don’t bring) to the job. Support: www.patreon.com/betweenus Contact: betweenuspodcast@gmail.com Facebook: www.facebook.com/betweenuspodcast/ Twitter: twitter.com/BetweenUsPod Instagram: www.instagram.com/betweenuspod/

Mason takes the wheel this week as he explores with his wife, Dr. Katie Neely, what it was like for her to experience his emergence into a career in psychotherapy. In a vulnerable and intimate moment between husband and wife, the Neelys process the ups, downs, and crazy-making moments of this emotional journey and how their disciplines of psychotherapy and medicine compare and contrast. Support: www.patreon.com/betweenus Contact: betweenuspodcast@gmail.com Facebook: www.facebook.com/betweenuspodcast/ Twitter: twitter.com/BetweenUsPod Instagram: www.instagram.com/betweenuspod/

What is it like to grow up the child of a therapist? Megan Griffiths is a filmmaker whose dark characters and tragic situations are undoubtedly influenced by her mother’s work as a social worker. Her latest film, Sadie, is a modern critique of the American culture of violence as it effects a young girl whose father is away at war. It is streaming now on Amazon Prime and available for rent or purchase on iTunes. She sat down with John to talk about the psychology of her films, her mom’s impact on her art, and working as a female filmmaker in the #MeToo era. Support: www.patreon.com/betweenus Contact: betweenuspodcast@gmail.com Facebook: www.facebook.com/betweenuspodcast/ Twitter: twitter.com/BetweenUsPod Instagram: www.instagram.com/betweenuspod/

In the last few years our culture has shined a light on men behaving badly. But what do we do with perpetrators of sexual and intimate partner violence? Bethany Hendrickson is a therapist who provides treatment to both survivors and perpetrators of this epidemic. In this conversation, she discusses with John the cycle of violence, the similarities in working with both offenders and victims, and what it means to find humanity in even the most inhumane people among us. Support: www.patreon.com/betweenus Contact: betweenuspodcast@gmail.com Facebook: www.facebook.com/betweenuspodcast/ Twitter: twitter.com/BetweenUsPod Instagram: www.instagram.com/betweenuspod/

What are the different ways that psychotherapists hide from their patients? It has long been our assertion that many of us enter this work to stay behind the analytical lens and to guard ourselves from exposure. But what about those who don’t have the option? Rachel Newcombe is a psychoanalyst and writer who works on rural Orcas Island in the furthest corner of the Pacific Northwest. She sat down with John to discuss how she holds an intimate framework in a place where patients are certain to run into their analysts in the dairy aisle. Support: www.patreon.com/betweenus Contact: betweenuspodcast@gmail.com Facebook: www.facebook.com/betweenuspodcast/ Twitter: twitter.com/BetweenUsPod Instagram: www.instagram.com/betweenuspod/

On today's episode, John sits down with his friend and colleague Katie Wilson to discuss her relationships with other therapists, how she uses her anger in session, and her discovery of her own limits as a woman in the field. Support: www.patreon.com/betweenus Contact: betweenuspodcast@gmail.com Facebook: www.facebook.com/betweenuspodcast/ Twitter: twitter.com/BetweenUsPod Instagram: www.instagram.com/betweenuspod/

Whitney Erickson is a young therapist who is constantly emerging into further layers of herself: from coming out as queer, to leaving the Mormon Church, to a recent epiphany about her own eating disorder- while working with clients who suffer from eating disorders. She takes the discoveries in stride with a sense of wonder about herself, her clients and the world around her. Principles of authenticity and integrity allow Whitney to trust the Universe and herself as she heals and sheds “maladaptive coping mechanisms”- especially the conflation of self-care and self-punishment that pesters her and so many others who have experienced spiritual harm. This week she shares her story. Support: www.patreon.com/betweenus Contact: betweenuspodcast@gmail.com Facebook: www.facebook.com/betweenuspodcast/ Twitter: twitter.com/BetweenUsPod Instagram: www.instagram.com/betweenuspod/

Dr. Adrienne Harris is a foundational figure in the world of contemporary psychoanalysis, both as a faculty member at the NYU Postdoctoral Program in Psychotherapy and Psychoanalysis and as a prolific writer on the topics of gender, trauma and subjectivity. Several years ago she formed a consultation group with her colleagues Dr. Susan Klebanoff and Dr. Margery Kalb. The journey this group took together was unexpected and resulted in two books- Ghosts in the Consulting Room, and Demons in the Consulting Room. On this episode of Between Us, these women discuss this exploration of transgenerational and cultural trauma, the errands we strive to complete, and the answer to the question- How does a ghost become an ancestor? Support: patreon.com/betweenus Contact: betweenuspodcast@gmail.com Facebook: www.facebook.com/betweenuspodcast/ Twitter: twitter.com/BetweenUsPod Instagram: www.instagram.com/betweenuspod/

What are the everyday tragedies you experience? From the universal affliction of aging to the specific harm of racism and sexism, our culture is talented at ignoring the daily trauma of human existence, and normalizing the grievous. In our episode today, John sits down with Dr. Karen Weisbard to discuss her process of waking up to these realities and what it means to occupy different spaces as a therapist- between the consulting room, the mountains, and even the tennis court. Find "Between Us: A Psychotherapy Podcast: Original Soundtrack" on iTunes today. Support: patreon.com/betweenus Contact: betweenuspodcast@gmail.com Facebook: www.facebook.com/betweenuspodcast/ Twitter: twitter.com/BetweenUsPod Instagram: www.instagram.com/betweenuspod/

Between Us finally returns. In our Season Three debut, host John Totten discusses his long absence, his ambivalence about his colleagues, and the social graces of the therapist community. Do you like hanging out with therapists? We listen to your responses. Find "Between Us: A Psychotherapy Podcast: Original Soundtrack" on iTunes today. Support: https://www.patreon.com/betweenus Contact: betweenuspodcast@gmail.com Facebook: www.facebook.com/betweenuspodcast/ Twitter: twitter.com/BetweenUsPod Instagram: www.instagram.com/betweenuspod/