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This episode is with Lucy Wightman, the Director of public health at Essex and it is a fantastic exploration of the role of public health in today’s public services and how far from being a specialist niche service area it should be front of mind for every public servant. This is the second episode in succession with a public health focus (following the conversation with Kate Ardern). This is very deliberate. At this critical juncture for the government’s levelling up agenda, I want to highlight the key role public health must play in supporting individuals, communities and local economies. We talk about the complexity of Lucy’s role in Essex, where she sits at a County level but engages with three Integrated Care Systems and 12 district councils – how does this work in practice? How does she influence the key people she needs to? We talk about the current set of health and care reforms and what the key elements are for a county like Essex and more broadly. Lucy has a particular interest in health inequalities and why, despite some powerful works of research from Michael Marmot and others, this isn’t trending in the right direction. The question of devolved powers is key here. And finally, Government can’t and shouldn’t be responsible for all aspects of public health so we discuss the role of business and civil society in ensuring communities are as healthy, happy and productive as they can be.

This episode is with Prof. Kate Ardern, the former Director of Public Health at Wigan. We talk about the challenging journey Wigan has been on and how the “Wigan Deal” culture has shaped her approach to public health. By the time Kate left Wigan last year, it had become a national beacon of good public health practice. Kate was also the lead for Health Protection and Emergency Planning & Response across Greater Manchester – so we discuss what it was like being "Manchester’s answer to Chris Witty" over the pandemic. Kate is an honorary professor at the University of Salford and in true educational form she treats us to an amazing and entertaining history lesson on public health from the original “fab four” in Liverpool (no not The Beatles!) through to an anecdote about the late Baroness Thatcher getting to grips with the finer details of sexual health. Finally, we touch on end-of-life care, a difficult subject which is often neglected but one which Kate cares about a lot.

Reforming public services can feel like an impossible task, but there are pioneering free-thinking leaders out there who are radically transforming how local services are delivered. Mark Smith, Director of Public Service Reform at Gateshead Council, is one of these inspirational leaders and we were lucky enough to have him join Andrew Laird on the latest #RadicalReformers podcast episode. We talk about how you get started on an innovation journey – how do you choose the right service area to begin with? Mark has some great insight. To give you an idea of what we are talking about, Mark worked with the council tax collection team to change how they engaged with people who were in arears. The normal process would be to assess and eventually send in the bailiffs. Mark and the team turned this on its head and spent time engaging with people and families who owed the council money and finding out what the real issues were. A key learning from this is the importance of retaining context when delivering public services to vulnerable people. Often the aim seems to be to design the context out and try to achieve a one size fits all answer. This seldom works in practice. Finally, we touch on devolution and the exiting new developments in the North East – what does this mean for public service delivery.

This episode is with Kev Henman, the Chief Executive of the youth work charity Space. Based in Devon, Space supports young people to learn, create and realise their potential. It’s to this podcast’s detriment that we haven’t had a youth service leader as a guest before - and I am delighted to correct that omission with such an inspiring, authentic leader. Kev has real lived experience which he brings to bear in this role. We discuss the formation of Space six years ago when it moved from the council to independence and we talk about how the service has grown both in terms of what it does to support young people and where it operates. We talk about the pressure young people are under today and the important role youth centres can play in providing a safe welcoming place for those who might otherwise lose their way. Kev is a values driven person and he describes the importance of listening to what young people have to say, especially about things which affect them, and of not letting “risk aversion” stop you giving people who could do good a second chance.

This episode is with Emma Perry, the Managing Director of Bevan, a social enterprise supporting the health and wellbeing of people who are homeless or in unstable accommodation. This is a brilliant and inspiring conversation. What an amazing organisation Bevan is! Emma and I talk about the work Bevan does providing GP and wrap around health support to the most vulnerable. As you can imagine, there are a lot of specific challenges in this work requiring the practitioners to bring all of their compassion, resilience and determination to the job. The “Bevan Bus”, a fully equipped mobile medical unit, is a great example of how you sometimes have to bring the service to the person. The Covid pandemic has not made this task any easier and Emma shares some of the wonderful stories of how people have been helped and supported to lead healthier and more fulfilling lives. We also talked about some of the innovations developed during Covid which the team at Bevan have maintained such as a greater focus on digital access to health and care as well as peer advocacy network. Finally, we talk about what motivates and drives Emma. It’s the all-important question of “why?” – why am I doing this? I loved the answer and I think you will too.

This episode is with Julain McCrae from Engage Britain, a leading public engagement charity. Public opinion and attitudes are important when it comes to public services. That doesn’t mean services should give the public everything they think they want but there is no doubt services are trying to become more “customer centric”. Julian and I discuss the public attitude to public services. The Chancellor has promised us Scandinavian quality and Singaporean efficiency in our public services - that seems a tough one to achieve so I ask Julian what people actually expect from the state? Public opinion on health care is a particular specialism of Julian’s and we get into some detail on attitudes towards health services and in particular how the health system interacts with individuals – is it working? Finally, we talk about how to engage and connect people with public service reform. How do you get people interested in areas which they don’t immediately see as relevant to them?

This episode is with Jessica Studdert, the Deputy Chief Executive of New Local, in my view the preeminent local government think tank. I’ve really been looking forward to this one. We cover a huge range of issues including: the relationship between central and local government and how that changed over Covid and what’s happening right now – was that a catalyst moment or is it back to business as usual? We discuss what local growth means and how important it is not just to devolve key areas such as skills to local areas but to also to ensure the right package of powers are devolved so things can be joined up. Health and care is a big issue at the moment and Jessica and I get into some detail on where responsibility for health in its broadest sense should sit – spoiler it’s not with hospitals. Jessica has very interesting and valid views on local government structures and how these must be secondary to culture and behaviours. Finally, we talk about the benefits of what Jessica calls a “zig zag” career – I’m a big believer in the value of getting experience in different arenas and Jessica has certainly done that.

This episode is with Jack Shaw, a local government researcher and academic associated with the IPPR think tank and the Bennet Institute for Public Policy. If you are on social media and interested in local government, the chances are you are a follower of Jack as he produces invaluable research and insight. We recorded a week after the Autumn budget - so we discuss the impact the Chancellor’s decisions will have on councils and local services. We particularly focus on the levelling up agenda and the various funds associate with that. We ask ourselves if “levelling up” is still a priority for this government and discuss potential future models for local growth funding Jack and I also talk about devolution, the patchwork of local government systems that exist across England and public service reform more generally. It’s a fascinating discussion for those of you interested in local public services.

This episode is with Edna Robinson. Edna is nothing short of a legend in public service circles. She is currently the Chair of the Big Life Group, The Greater Manchester Alternative Provider Federation and the People’s Powerhouse. She started her professional career as a midwife and worked her way up to be Chief Executive of a number of NHS organisations and a special advisor in central government. This is a very frank conversation in which Edna and Andrew discuss the current NHS reforms – is this just more of the same people in the same echo chamber? They talk about the important role charities and social enterprises play in the health and care system (which is where the Alternative Provider Federation comes in) and the importance of the third sector being able to operate professionally at scale. Edna and Andrew also discuss the critical role of the “lay voice” within care pathways and how important it is for leaders of large organisations to stay connected to people on the front line.

In this episode Andrew Laird speaks to Selina Douglas. Selina is an Exec Director at the Northeast London Foundation Trust (NELFT), a large community services provider operating in London, Essex and Kent. Selina has a rich mixture of professional experience having worked in the third sector, within councils and in the NHS. This gives her two very important perspectives, one is about challenging traditional progression routes within the public sector i.e. gathering a range of experiences rather than just sticking in one silo and the second is an appreciation of the role other players such as councils and the third sector have in successfully supporting people to live healthy fulfilling lives. Andrew and Selina also talk about the importance of representation in terms of ethnicity and gender but also in terms of organisational type.

This a very timely conversation between host Andrew Laird and poverty and cost-of-living expert Helen Barnard. Helen is a Associate Director at the Joseph Rowntree Foundation and Research and Policy Director at Pro Bono Economics. Chances are you have heard Helen talking about the current crisis on the news. For context, as the podcast was recorded, the Chancellor Kwasi Kwarteng had just stepped aside and the “mini budget” was being unwound... Helen has just released a new book called “Want” which is part of a series styled as a new Beverage report. Andrew and Helen discuss the drivers of poverty and how Government should respond in the aftermath of the pandemic, which has surfaced and exacerbated a huge level of inequality in our society. They also discuss what the priorities should be at the various levels of government. Helen and Andrew are both Commissioners on Philippa Stroud’s Poverty Strategy Commission which aims to develop concrete policy proposals in this area. They also talk about good policy making and how in order to make sustainable progress, people of differing views need to come together and try and reach consensus. It seems to there is a dangerous norm emerging that unless you agree with someone else on everything you can agree on nothing – this is the road to nowhere. Coalition building around specific topics is key to lasting progress.

This episode is with Jules Hillier, the Chief Executive of Pause, a national charity which supports women who have had multiple babies removed into care. If Pause sounds familiar it’s because the very first episode of the podcast back in 2020 was with Sophie Humphreys who was the founder of Pause. I’m interested in the how organisations successfully transition from entrepreneur/founder to long-term Chief Exec and this is a great case study. It’s a very different set of skills and a very different role as the new Chief Exec sets out to grow the organisation and make it sustainable. On top of this, Jules and I talk about a wide range of things including the fact that if you keep the focus on quality and continuous improvement then the Return on Investment (so critical for the Finance Directors out there!) will take care of itself. Pause largely operates via a franchise model and we discuss the right level of freedom and flexibility versus national standards and model fidelity. Finally, Jules has some great views on how to approach a Chief Exec role – you don’t have to be the best at everything (or even good at everything). This seems obvious but there are far too many “hero leaders” out there who think they have to do it all! and that’s never good for organisations.

This episode is with Sophie Clarke a Director of Capacity, an organisation based in the north-west of England. Capacity bridges the gap between consultancy and delivery – they describe themselves as a “do tank” not just a “think tank”. Capacity’s core purpose is about making public services “people services”. Sophie explains exactly what that means (and in particular the importance of relationships) better than anyone I’ve ever spoken to. She clearly “gets” what it takes to make a meaningful positive change to people’s lives. We spend time talking about the Juno Project, a Liverpool based initiative which is challenging the children’s residential care market. This market is plagued with private providers charging huge sums, placing children and young people far from their communities and generally not delivering good outcomes. There is genuinely radical innovation here and from a practical perspective we talk about the challenge of getting this project up and running and properly funded. You will be able to tell I really enjoyed speaking with Sophie and I hope you do too.

This conversation is with Mila Lukic, the Chief Executive and co-founder of Bridge Outcomes Partnerships, a social enterprise operating in the social investment space. Now before you conclude that this will all be about financing mechanisms – there is a little on that – but what the conversation is really about is how to encourage and support innovation in public services. We talk about social impact bonds and outcomes-based commissioning and how these mechanisms help focus services on the ultimate outcome you are trying to achieve rather than the process. Many contractual arrangements are rigid and limiting in terms of being able to make in-flight adjustments to services and to try new things. This should be of great interest to anyone working on designing, commissioning or delivering public services – I hope you learn as much from it as I did!

This episode is with Chris Wright, the outgoing Chief Executive of Catch 22. Chris is a maverick thinker (and doer) who is determined to make public services work better and achieve better outcomes for vulnerable people. Catch 22 is a national charity which delivers support to young people and families in the realms of justice, education, apprenticeships and elements of social care – so as you can imagine, it’s a very wide-ranging discussion. The system is not always designed to encourage (or even tolerate) radical new ideas and Chris shares his thoughts on how that can be changed, including a need to challenge the “bureaucratic mindset” and create space for radical thinking and a tolerance for failure. We also talk about how organisations should not be “seduced by revenue”. There are healthier things to focus on! I also continue my quest to find answers on how radical innovation in public services can be funded – and as you can imagine Chris has his own ideas on that. I loved this episode and I hope you do too.

This episode is with Nick Temple, the Chief Executive of the Social investment Business. I haven’t had anyone from the social investment space on the podcast – so I thought it was high time I did! Social Investment can play an important enabling role in public services and there are some important new ideas in the Levelling Up White Paper e.g. around enabling the use of government pension funds for impact investing - so it’s important for us all to have an understanding. As well as a general discussion about the work of the Social Investment Business and the state of the social investment sector, we talk about how social investment can be structured (social investment can unlock other funding) and I ask what exactly a Social Impact Bond is and how can it support the delivery of public services. I am particularly interested in how we can encourage radical ideas in public services, so Nick and I get into some detail on how social investors can support new ideas and the role of government in encouraging (and funding) the early stages of the innovation journey. I hope you enjoy it. NB - In the pod, Nick mentions that one of their investors is a social enterprise - its Fusion21 (www.fusion21.co.uk) and they do a lot of interesting stuff.

This episode is with Charlotte Pickles, the Director of the think tank Reform – and it is an absolute cracker. I want to spend more time talking to leaders of think tanks as they play such a huge role in our policy development process. The ideas that end up in political party manifestos don’t just materialise out of thin air. It’s important that public servants understand how think tanks influence - and also how they can be influenced. Charlie and I discuss radical devolution of funding and accountability in health and care and the fact that it should be ok for different areas to do different things based on what they need. We also talk about the machinery of central government and how to encourage a higher tolerance of risk and more long-term thinking (although short term thinking is usually driven by politicians!). There is a very interesting bit of the conversation where we talk about local government and Combined Authorities being the ideal place to test new ideas. I also ask Charlie to help public servants understand what this government is trying to achieve and how they should interpret it. I loved this conversation and I hope you do too.

This conversation is with Alison Hopkins, Chief Executive of Accelerate CIC, an organisation which provides lymphoedema and wound care services in the north-east of London. There is a lot of talk in the healthcare sector about shifting resources from treatment to prevention and this is a fantastic case study. Alison describes in detail how the team at Accelerate have taken the initiative to provide early support to prevent the need for long-term expensive care wherever possible. Alison is very honest about what it has been like to lead a small health organisation over the past two years of the pandemic whilst also trying to find their place in the new Integrated Care System. We talk a lot about balance e.g. finding the right balance between projecting confidence but also being secure enough to be vulnerable - and also finding the right balance between running a sustainable organisation and pursuing a “mission”. Enjoy it!

This episode is with Emily Miles, Chief Executive of the Food Standards Agency (FSA). Before that Emily held a number of very senior central government positions in DEFRA, Home Office and Cabinet Office. As you can imagine it is a very wide-ranging discussion. We talk about the role of the FSA (and yes we do mention Brexit and the impact that has had as well as the opportunity to create policy from first principles). Emily offers fantastic insight on what makes a successful “bridge” between central government policy making and local delivery. The FSA sits very firmly on that bridge in terms of supporting the implementation of national policy and also supporting local councils in their day-to-day work. My favourite part of the interview is when Emily talks about leadership and the importance of honest, authentic leadership and being yourself! She also highlights the importance of being open to making mistakes and how this is an essential part of the journey towards personal and organisational progress. Enjoy it!

This episode is with Jo Pritchard OBE. Jo is Director of health and social care at Social Enterprise UK. Before that she founded Central Surrey Health, one of the very first public service mutuals to “spin out” of the public sector back in 2006. This is a very wide ranging and hugely informative conversation starting with the journey towards setting up Central Surrey Health - why employee ownership was a good thing and why Jo thinks it’s still a fantastic model for public services. We also discuss the current health and social care reforms - what do they mean for the system and are the reforms going to be positive for service users and staff? We also discuss social value, particularly when the public sector is procuring services, and also what it is to be a public service entrepreneur! I hope you enjoy it.