Steven and Timothy discuss Google’s accessibility announcements at I/O, then dive into smart home tech with Steven’s multi-platform setup and his Apple TV 4K.
Show Notes: Boy Genius Report’s summary of Android Q’s new accessibility featuresGoogle Lens to SpeechGoogle’s Project Euphonia VideoThe Verge’s story on Project Euphonia Google’s Live Transcribe Video Google’s Live Caption and Live Relay Video Steven AquinoTwitter: @steven_aquinoWebsite: stevensblog.coTimothy BuckTwitter: @timothybucksfWebsite: timothybuck.mePodcast: unco.fm Episode TranscriptSteven Aquino: Hi everyone. Welcome to episode 2 of season 2 of Accessible. I'm your host Steve Aquino and with me as always is my friend and cohost, Timothy Buck. How are you, Tim? Timothy Buck: I'm doing really well. Sorry if you can hear the sirens in the background, but I actually was looking at our stream the other day and I noticed that we have this set of season 3 in iTunes and I was like, why did we do that?And I remember it's because you did a season one a few years back with another co-host. So technically this is season 3. Steven Aquino: This is season 3 technically in season 3. Okay. Well then this is season 3 episode 2. So it's been about two weeks since we recorded. If you didn't hear us on the last episode we didn't do much.We just talk about what we want to do for the show and why we went on hiatus. And if you want to go back and listen to that it's on iTunes and we can probably throw it in the notes. But today we want to kind of get back into a quote-unquote real episode and talk about a few things the top being Google I/O which happened last week.They had their annual developer conference down in Mountain View and there was a big push from Google about accessibility. And they have quite a bit of new stuff in Android Q, I think it is. And we kind of want to talk about about that and kind of talk about what that means for users.There's an article by Chris Smith at BJR. He does kind of go over the accessibility stuff in Android Q. So going from our notes from the articles and our show notes to document the first thing that they announced is something called Google Lens text-to-speech.And what it does is it allows somebody who. Who is illiterate to hold up their phone camera to text and have the AI read it aloud in their native tongue. So if you click on the link to the story by Smith, Google has a video of someone in India a woman named Urmila.She doesn't know how to read and she's holding her phone to a book and the book. The phone is taking the text and essentially turning it into an audio version.Timothy Buck: Yeah, essentially what they've done is take what they've had for a while was in Google Translate which allowed you to put your camera up to anything in another language and it would translate it in the image.If it was in, I don't know, German, and you held it up and you don't speak German. It put English text over the German text so that you could actually read it. And what they've added is they've made it a lot easier to get to in the newest version of Android not like within an app or anything and they've also allowed you to have it play but like stephen was saying, play sound back to you. So like in this case this this woman wasn't taught to read and she in the video. I would just recommend watching the video but she talks about like her children are in school and she wants to be able to help them with things or like read their report card and things like that.And now with this she's able to do that because she can point this device at a report card or whatever may be and it'll read out to her what it says. And so she can she can know how our kids are doing in school through this really incredible technology that it in in reality. They added like just speaking features to a Google translate saying that they've had for a long time, but I think it's it's.For actual users. It's a massive change and I think it'll mean that a lot more people out. There can have accessibility to reading things either in languages. They don't understand or in if they're illiterate entirely. Steven Aquino: Yeah. I think it's cool. Like I don't use Google Translate at all. Just because I don't have to, but you know, it's really cool of Google to be kind of taking that tech and to make literacy, you know a more accessible thing. You know in the video that they show shows someone who is in an another country, but but even here in the United States, there are people who are illiterate. And you know literacy is something that everyone has to have so, you know, I can see this technology if they're able to use a phone like, you know being helpful. Timothy Buck: Yeah, I think what's particularly cool is you don't even really have to be able to read to get around the phone.It's just a really clear button you press it once and it camera you just hold it up to it. There's not like a lot of clicking around driving to understand how to do anything. It's really really easy to use. I think the thing that stood out to me about this Google IO. As opposed to previous ones.Is that Google did announced many things that they specifically called out for their accessibility features, and Google has had accessibility features in the past that they've added two things. But when we talk about accessibility we tend to focus on Apple because Apple makes the videos explaining why their features are accessible or they take the time on stage at WWDC to explain that they have these four new accessibility features.And other companies until recently didn't really do that. They didn't really spend that precious time at these events to explain this stuff. They may like have a press release or whatever later that had a small feature or handful. But this seems like a shift to me and it's not that I've like I don't know.Hey, I could be wrong, but this seems like a shift in Google, at least for this year. They have made accessibility more of a priority, and they've taken the things that they're really good at and we're going to talk about a bunch of bunch more of the features that they've added but they've taken what they're really good at in services and they've made it more accessible and usable for the masses and for people who have different needs and that is really really exciting to me and I just want to say even before we go through the rest of them that I'm really happy that Google's doing this and I hope they continue to do it moving forward.Steven Aquino: Just before we head on to this is the other features. You know, I've said this on the show, I've said it on Twitter, you know, I have spent six years.Covering Apple at close range, you know, I. You know, I get review units of stuff and I'm I've become a regular at at their press events. And you know, I've gotten some criticism from. People out there who say that like, I'm I'm in the bag for Apple because I always say complimentary things about them or what not, but I I think it's really important too.You know what I've said about Microsoft of wait how they're really doing well with the accessible Xbox controllers and all that that they're doing. You know, Google is still generally not from people I talk to in the Disabled Community. Google is still not as far-reaching and as polished as Apple in terms of accessibility. But as you were saying Tim like what they showed off at I/O, it feels like there's been a shift and they are using a lot of their core competencies with the ML stuff and all that to really deliver some really cool, you know accessibility features to people who use Android and you know, I'm not on team Google or team Apple or team whomever. You know accessible is an industry wide thing. I mean not just Apple not not just Google. I mean it's you know, it's everybody and you know, I'm not a above saying that Google is doing a. good job here like. You know, you know the said they're taking their core competencies you know in ml and all that and they're doing good with it.Timothy Buck: And that's what I'm excited about like that it seems and I don't know how to say this other than to say. What you're saying is completely correct. It's more than just an Apple or a Google or a hardware-makers thing. Accessibility is larger than that. And I think that's why we want to make the show, even though we will talk about Apple a lot because we like Apple a lot and we use Apple devices a lot.We also want to get into talking about the Twitter app and its accessibility. That Matters too. And you know Gmail and Gmail's accessibility. That Matters too. Or whatever it may be. A lot of the software out there that we use needs to be accessible. And this is just an instance where in the most recent Google announcements they have four five six different things that are making previously inaccessible tools accessible. And the first one we talked about being lens to speech is making Google translate accessible to the people who are illiterate and I'm going to mess up our order here Stephen, but I think the next one that really stick out to me was Project Euphonia and we watch the video before we started recording and that one in particular is just incredible in what they are working on making.Google Assistant understand people who have different diseases or are deaf or whatever it may be and when they speak it's hard for assistants to understand them today. And if they can get to the point where literally anybody speaking to an assistant can be understood that is massive. It's a thing that the other assistants just clearly do not have today and that would be that would be a huge win. Steven Aquino: Yeah, I did not hear about this when IO was happening. I was kind of going through on Twitter and kind of looking to see what people had said who were there. So I just got wind of the. live capture and live listen thing which we'll talk about about soon here.But yeah about project, Euphonia, you know, I've been saying for a long time now at least three years, maybe four. I don't know that you know these smart assistants like Alexa and fiery and what's Microsoft's one?Timothy Buck: Cortana Steven Aquino: Cortana, you know.Timothy Buck: BixbySteven Aquino: Yeah, you know, they they're fine. I mean they. You know, you can talk to it and all but they're designed sort of assumes that you speak fluently which is to say you speak in a normal tone, you you don't stutter, as I do, you have 100% fluency, so and as Google is showing here, like that's not the case ,with me or with people who have a stroke or ALS or what have you.Timothy Buck: Even children or people who have a strong accent because whatever language they're speaking to this device is not their first language. There are a bunch of examples where this type of ability to understand not mainstream pronunciations of words or tones or speeds of speaking is. This just opens up so much. So so so much. It's huge.Steven Aquino: You know again, like what I was talking about earlier about Google sort of core competencies. This is a prime example of that because like something as critical as getting a Google Assistant to understand you if you stutter or if you have an accent. Like they're taking their skillset. They're taking their their skillset in Ai and ML and and their harnessing all that and they're developing this technology that helps someone like me who stutters or whomever. The smart speaker sort of smart assistant will be more accessible. Because you know as I've said with like iOS 11, I think or was it 12? Apple introduced something called Type to Siri where you go and accessibility you flipped on type to Siri and you can type to her type to it just as if you're you know, it's kind of like iMessage for Siri.You know, I'm not saying that that that feature is bad. It's not, but at the same time like it doesn't solve the problem of actually speaking to your assistant which you know people have these assistants in their home all the time and you you just want to kind of shout into the ether to talk to them and if you can't talk to them because it doesn't understand you because you have a thick accent or you stutter or something then why are you having it? You know, whereas type to Siri is good. It doesn't had on solve the problem of actual speech. Timothy Buck: Yeah, I do want to point out that. I don't want to misrepresent what project Euphonia is. I t is not that they have solved this and are releasing it to the public.It is a project that they are undergoing and they're requesting. I just did a little bit more reading up about it earlier today and it's not now I'll actually link I'll make sure I linked to The Verge article that I was reading in show notes, but what basically what the Verge article explains is Project Ephonia is a project where they are working really hard to solve this problem and they have gotten a bunch of people to submit voice samples and they are requesting that people submit their own voice samples so that they can train the voice recognition AI to understand different types of speech and basically the way that it was explained I think in the video is that we also link in the show notes is that these voice recognition. AIs out there, Siri or Google assistant or whatever it may be they are trained off of these massive data sets of people's words who are asking for things or saying things saying turn off the lights and all the different ways.You can say turn off the lights in every different situation and that's how they can understand it, but. The reason why they don't understand people who have stutters or who have ALS or who have you know, really really strong accents is because the data set they have doesn't include those people.And so what they're requesting is that people who fall into those groups submit their voices and submit. BAsically just it's an initiative where they're asking people to help them solve this problem and they've done a lot of work on an already especially definitely recommend watching the video that explains what they've done so far. But yeah, so I'll actually also they have a form that I'll link as well.That shows like if you are personally interested in submitting. That you can. It shows you how to do it and I haven't clicked. I haven't like gone through to actually submit anything but it's a Google form thing that you can fill out and submit your own voice if you're interested in submitting to this project.So to make Google Assistant better understand you.Steven Aquino: This is something that. You know, I don't have any inside knowledge which have been anything. So, I don't know exactly what Apple has done here or is doing. But you know people in the tech sphere they talk about, you know, talking to your Siri and Google Assistant and Alexa and you can just talk to it and it'll can do things for you. And I mean, it's all fine. But like. Oh. I just turned on my Echo Dot in the kitchen. It's talking to me. Timothy Buck: Of course. Steven Aquino: I have an Echo Dot which we will get into the smart home stuff. I have an echo dot in the kitchen, which is adjacent to my office space and it just turned on.So what I'm saying here is like, you know, this is not something that Google is is actively gonna ship but I'm saying like they deserve credit for tackling the like head-on problem of actual speech.And you know they're not taking a they're not... How do I say this... They're not sort of taking aways some of the appeal of a smart assistant in the way that maybe a typ to Siri would because you're not you're not actually talking to it. I don't know if that makes any sense, but you know, this is cool. And I'm going to keep tabs on it, even though I don't use a lot of Google stuff I might think about contributing to this. I don't know but yeah.So the other things that Google announced if I want to go in order again, there are two features that are similar there's something Live Transcribe and there's also something called Live Caption and Live Relay. I'm going to kind of group them to group them together because they're very similar. So live transcribe,according to the article by BJR says that the app will transcribe everything it hear's so anyone hard of hearing can follow the conversation. So what it's saying is and you can watch the video as someone is talking. You can effectively use closed caption for someone who's deaf or hard of hearing to to hear what they're saying to hear what they're saying and.It's similar to. Kind of what Apple did increase lips with future they have called wive titles where if you use the Clips app if you know start talking and you want to share it to your aunt who's deaf like. As you're talking your speech will be shown up as text on this on the phone. So right there in the app, so she'll know what you're saying.Timothy Buck: What's cool though is I think this expands a little bit beyond like audio that's or video that is sent through Clips. It's anything in your photos. Correct? I'm pretty sure that's how it works. It's like any video that you have in your Google photos can have this turned on which is. Pretty sweet.Steven Aquino: Yeah, so that that's a good segue into wife caption and live relay. Pretty much. You know again like the Google is live captioning videos and live relay. So what that is... is like you can, let's say you're deaf and you have to call the Hair Salon to make an appointment. You know you can call them and while you're on the call the person on the other line, when they speak, their text,heir speech is being converted into real-time text on your phone. So you don't have to call a third party phone number to facilitate that conversation.Tim do you have any thoughts on that or questions or? Timothy Buck: Yeah, when you were tweeting about it, I was following some of the links. I didn't even know that that was the thing in the past where you had somebody else on the call. It's pretty cool that that's been around for a long time. And it's also really exciting to be that Google is making this more available to more people so.It's great. So I think the last thing at least in that initial article that we've been kind of using as our outline was sound amplifier, which is a not like an AI based thing based on what I've read in a few places it seems. It's pretty much an accessibility setting that will amplify sounds to be louder for people who who need that to be able to hear.Is that something that Apple currently has an accessibility settings. Do you know? Steven Aquino: I don't think so. I don't know. If you have hearing aids. They they have a whole bunch of Sound audio settings that you can check if you have a hearing aid. But since I don't have a hearing aid, I can't check but I do know that if you have a made for iPhone hearing aid if it's paired to your iPhone, you get a whole host of like different audio switches and you know, you can flip them and but as far as sound goes.Timothy Buck: I don't see it. I'm looking at him now. There's a bunch of hearing settings, but they don't seem to be one that does this specific thing. So that's kind of let us know. Let us know if we're wrong. Steven Aquino: Let me just just double check real quick from my own. Yeah, so there's no like special audio Modes, you know, they said if you have a hearing aid made for iPhone you can turn that on and once it's paired, you know, you'll get stuff but everything else is just sort of. Not for audio like, you know, it sounds as if what Google's doing since I have it here since I have my phone here. I kind of want to take a quick moment to say... I can't remember if it was Mark Gurman or someone else but there was a report somewhere last week that said that in iOS 13 accessibilty is going to have a top level menu option in settings. So now if you want to get to accessibility, you have to go to you have to tap settings, general and then accessibility to get at those options, but in iOS 13 they're going to move accessibility to the top page. So. It'll be right there, which I think is good. So I just wanted to throw that out there. Timothy Buck: Yeah, that seems like a really small but significant change. Steven Aquino: That's something I've been talking about for a long time harping on that like it should be top level and since I was staring at the phone, I just wanted to throw that out there.Timothy Buck: Yeah, for sure. I think we're done with the Google I/O stuff. Yes, so. You have a smart home set up now? that's new.Steven Aquino: Yeah, relatively new with everything that's been happening here at home. We, well I, because I'm the tech person. I've gotten to kind of turn our house into a smart house and I haven't settled on... You know, you would think as being an Apple person that I would settle on HomeKit as my smart home, but I haven't I have actually cobbled together a smart home that incorporates HomeKit, Nest, some Amazon and a little google mmm sorry folks.I you know. I've got to talk to a couple people about this and they're like, why don't you just settle on one kind of platform but like I have felt that having more than one smart home kind of is good for us because there are certain things about each system that I want and I don't want to throw all my eggs into one cart.Timothy Buck: I have found that a lot of the generic. Not necessarily generic but a lot of the like non hubs tend to work with everything which is really really nice. So like Hue Lights work with Google. They work with Amazon. They work with Apple. I'm sure that they are adding ability for it to work with all the others as well.And I think, the more that that happens the better we all are, because that forces those voice providers to get better and better at actually understanding us and providing is value and not just having us locked in because we've spent you know, $300 on stuff around our houses that only work with them.So I have a similar combination of some HomePods, some Alexas, and that kind of thing, and they all can do all the same stuff. Steven Aquino: Yeah. I don't want to like get into great detail about like how this all happened or anything. But last year we redid our house and we decided to.. I decided to upgrade our Thermistat and at first I got a I got an Ecobee because I wanted to work with HomeKit, but then there were some huge headaches with, because my house is over a hundred years old, and turns out that the wiring is incompatable with with our house. Even though the people I talked to said it was. So I ended up getting an nests thermostat e which is the current wirecutter pick and the HVAC guy that we went with he get gave us a discount on the E after I told him about all the headaches. And it's awesome. Like I think it's really simple to use. I like how it looks in our house. We also have the The Nest smoke alarm that we have in the hallway too and they talk to each other and it's good stuff, you know.I'm happy with it. And then after I got the thermostat and the smoke alarm done, I kind of went out and got other stuff. So we have a doorbell by Ring.And I chose the Ring doorbell over, you know something else because. Number one the Wirecutter said it was good. And also they have these little things called Chimes which act as a doorbell if you can't hear your doorbells, so well, so I have two in the house and the front and the back of the house and it's great.I'm trying to look at my smart home apps here. I've got Hue lights. I've got Weibo smart outlets. We just put a HomeKit sensor in our garage. So now I can tell Siri to open and close it which is super cool. Timothy Buck: How did that work? Is that... Did you have to get a new garage door opener or is it just like an add-on to your current one?Steven Aquino: So it was kind of a hassle. We were able to keep the opener itself, but you have to buy these two like. What do you call them? They're like hubs. So there's the actual Hub that turns it into a smart opener that hooks up to you your internet and then there's a separate little thing that is for HomeKit.Timothy Buck: Hmm. Can you as you've been talking it just had made me interested. Can you? Put all of this stuff in the show notes, like just links to whatever you have. Steven Aquino: Yeah, I can do that.Timothy Buck: People might be interested. Steven Aquino: Um, we have a Echo Dot in the kitchen because last year like towards the end of the year I got an Echo clock which is super handy for setting timers when I cook and I just like the idea of having an old-school clock and you know up there and it's easy to tell time just look up and I've got a home pod and I actually I ordered the home security system from Nest and they gave me a free Google home, but I haven't opened it yet. I'm sorry for taking over the conversation. But I've got a whole lot of smart home stuff in the house from different services and you know again, like people say well why don't you just just stick to one system but. There are in other said there are certain things. I want from each thing and they're all good in their own way. So I just use one for this and one for that and it's fine. I mean, it's not hard. Timothy Buck: Yeah, I think honestly, that's what we're moving towards. More and more people I know have a set up similar to that. I don't know if that's going to change anytime soon because they do kind of each have their own benefits and because it works right? Like even if you never buy a HomePod, it makes sense to have things in your home that you can turn on and off from your iPad or your iPhone or whatever it may be. So and it makes sense to keep your options open. I've made that a priority when buying plugs or lights or whatever that I have around our house. So that I don't get locked in and so that I can do it from my phone really easily and I can also speak to Alexa or I could also use the Google app on my phone and speak to that if I wanted. There's a million ways I can do it and that type of choice is good for the market. So yeah.Steven Aquino: And to speak to the accessibility of it like I haven't touched on that but but in cobbling all this to rather I. I find that it's really really accessible to be able to tap the Home app on my Apple watch or my iPhone and turn on the lights in the in the office or turn on the light in the living room.You know or tell Alexa to set a timer for you know, well I cook like, you know, it's really opened my eyes to like this smart home stuff is cool. And you know, I'm just you know, I don't have a whole lot but like. But I do have I'm I'm real we're enjoying. Timothy Buck: Yeah, I agree man think we're on the same page there.Steven Aquino: So on that note, we kind of wanted to finish off the the show. Whoops... By talking about another sort of smart home thing which is. I got an Apple TV 4K, at the end of last year. And I got a 4K TV. Maybe I'll try to put the model number in the show notes.We got a Black Friday. No, not Black Friday. What was it? I don't know what it was, but we got a deal on some holiday thing on a 4K TV. It's 55 inches. It's Samsung. It's not like the super high-end top of the line. It's not low end either. It's sort of like middle of the road, you know, but as someone who can't see very well and as somebody who didn't have an HD TV until now like this, this TV is awesome. Like, you know, I can see I can see I can see everything on the TV. I don't have to like turn up the text too much and. You know, everything is super Sharp. You know, I kind of put together my home theater with stuff and it's super cool man, like I you know again like my TV is not the highest end thing but you know from where I came from it's super cool.Timothy Buck: Yeah, I'm kind of jealous man. I have a cheap not 4K old TV, but not going to upgrade it anytime soon. Steven Aquino: So I got it an Apple TV 4K and it was my first time with an Apple TV. Timothy Buck: What have you thought about the input mechanism and the way it works and I don't know I've been using Apple TVs for years now and I feel like a lot of people have talked about it, but I'd love to hear your thoughts.Steven Aquino: So I you know, I'm not gonna get too. Deep into it but but I enjoy it. Like I know people say, oh, it's not this it's not that like it should have this it should have that but like for me and what I do with it and what I want with it, like it's great. I do not use the Siri remote. As I was putting together my home theater I decided that I wanted to consolidate everything. So I got the Wirecutter pick for best universal remote which is the Logitech Harmony Companion.Timothy Buck: Talk about this. Does it work well it?Steven Aquino: The app is bad and it takes it's sort of fiddly to to do you've got to tell the Hub like what turns on this and how did your sound work and what what input is it on it? I mean it's a it's a pain in the butt. But once you have it all set up, it's cool. Like I just hit one button on the on the remote and I start up my Apple TV and the the Harmony remote controls it fine. The only thing it doesn't do is Siri and search so if I search like the App Store for an app or I want to talk to Siri. You can't do that unless you use the iPhone app. Timothy Buck: That's kind of a bummer. I use those two things a lot. Steven Aquino: But you know, it's cool like. You know, I the Apple TV I think is is cool. Like I'm I'm excited for 12.3 for the new TV app and I love the the thing where the how you I don't know how you how you say it like the when you scroll through the app or through the tvOS if you're on the home screen or you're in settings like the Highlight will kind of shit will kind of move and kind of like jump out at you I don't know what that's called, but I think that's really accessible because I can see where I am and I love it. To hear the doo doo doo doo, you know as I'm going through it because those sounds like help me know that that I'm actually doing something, you know, so I I'm a fan of the Apple TV.I know people hate it there sort of and you know.Timothy Buck: What's interesting is you have replaced the one thing that people don't like. Right, like nobody dislikes the Apple TV because of, like the only complaint that I've heard have been around how it their remote works. Right? I mean like it's clearly and or gaming right like those two things and you're not really using either of those things.I think like, The way the rest of it works is it's been around for a while, but it's generally really good and it works really well in that is why people even though they complain about the remote still use it because it is pretty nice. I've liked mine a lot. I don't have the 4K one because I don't have a 4K TV, but I've found it really useful.Steven Aquino: Yeah, I should say I was stupid I got this 64 gig one. That's because I figured for $20 more. You know get to double the storage. But yeah, I'm not sure what else to say about the Apple TV. Timothy Buck: Did you turn on any accessibility features for the Apple TV? I don't even know the Sara Lee what features it has.Steven Aquino: So it has a lot like you can use voice over you can you can use bold text you can use switches. There are a few other things that I can't think of at the moment. I haven't turned anything on because I think be between the interface itself and then also the size of my TV like I don't need like I'm not in dire need of anything. The only thing I wish it had was dynamic type. Because I find like when I'm scrolling the App Store or an app or something where the type is sort of smaller and I kind of wish it were bigger, but you can't change it.Timothy Buck: That's one of those features from iOS. That really should just be everywhere that there is type.Steven Aquino: And like I mean tvOS is an offshoot of iOS. So like. It's technically there. They just haven't turned it on, you know. Timothy Buck: Yeah. Steven Aquino: But yeah, I'm enjoying the Apple TV. I really enjoyed the TV Services event in March because like I had the Apple TV at long last and like I can enjoy like all these shows that Apple's having and everything else and I'll probably at some point I want to write about it, you know between the smart home and Apple TV, but like. I feel like not having an HD tv in the house like really put me at a disadvantage when it came to TV OS because I couldn't talk about it.Now that I have one like, you know, it's exciting and I can actually you know. I can actually contribute here. So I feel like I feel like that's it for this episode. Timothy Buck: This was an interesting one spent most of the time talking about Google and smart home stuff and a little bit less about Apple. Definitely let us know what you all think about that. I think. I personally am excited to have this show be focused specifically on accessibility and whatever whatever in that realm is happening whether it's Apple or Google or Microsoft or or Twitter or any company out there. So let us know if there's anything you want to talk about and.I will add though, for the Apple TV. Fiber on the Apple TV is awesome. I have mine hooked up through Ethernet and it is insanely fast.. Just want to put that in there. So, okay. Alright. Well that does it for this week's show. As Timothy said you can talk to us online if you have any thoughts about what we talked about here or thoughts about the show.You can find me on Twitter at stephen_aquino. I also have a site stevensblog.co that I haven't written atin six months, but it's there. You can find Timothy on Twitter at timothybucksf and you can find him at timothybuck.me. He also has a show called UNCO which is in its second seasons, a sister podcast of ours. And I've been enjoying that one as well. And. Tim that was a good show. Steven Aquino: Yeah. Thanks, man. Timothy Buck: Thanks a lot, and we will talk to you soon. Bye bye.
