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2 Guys And A Chainsaw
60 minutes | 3 days ago
Happy Mother's Day! To celebrate, this year we're examining a classic of the "motherhood gone horribly wrong" genre: Roman Polanski's "Rosemary's Baby" If you have yet to see this film, we highly recommend you watch it BEFORE you listen to us talk about it. It's that good. The post Rosemary’s Baby appeared first on 2 Guys & A Chainsaw.
64 minutes | 13 days ago
An urban legend comes to life after a grad student gets a little too academic with his mythology. And now that Jordan Peele has completed filming and will be releasing a new version, we felt it was time to finally tackle this iconic horror franchise. We couldn't believe how well this 1992 film held up. The post Candyman appeared first on 2 Guys & A Chainsaw.
55 minutes | a month ago
Mom and Dad
Can't get enough of Nicholas Cage going over-the-top crazy? Then belly up to this jet-black comedy that makes fun of those moments when parents just want to murder their kids. 'Cause in this movie, they do. Listen to this week's episode to learn why we were not as thrilled with it as everyone else seemed to be. Maybe we'll understand when we're older? Expand to read episode transcript Automatic Transcript Mom and Dad (2018) Episode #254, 2 Guys and a Chainsaw Todd: Hello and welcome to another episode of Two Guys and a Chainsaw. I’m Todd. Craig: I’m Craig. Todd: All right. After a little bit of retro action that we’ve had those last a few weeks, we’re going a little more modern to 2018’s “Mom and Dad”. This was a straight out of the blue selection by Craig this week. It is directed by Brian Taylor and starring…. Craig: Uh, the ever so subtle…. Todd: Yeah. Nicholas Cage. Very good. Very good. You thought I was going to say Selma Blair or something? Yeah, definitely a Nicholas Cage. So yeah, it was kind of Nick, Nick Cage, man. This guy’s in everything now. Is there a project? This man doesn’t take. He’s all over the map and all over the place. And honestly often is playing these characters. This isn’t really the Nicholas Cage movie I wanted to do. I was really interested in that new one that seems like he’s in. Like a Chuck E. Cheese that’s gone crazy or something. And apparently doesn’t speak a word, but, uh, have you heard anything about that one? Well, what is that about? Uh, Craig: uh, I’m not really sure. I think I know about as much about it as you do. It’s like, uh, Possessed animatronics or something. I don’t know if they’re possessed or evil or malfunctioning or what, but yeah. Uh, I also recently, I, I also recently saw him in another movie, um, color out of space, which was based on, uh, uh, HP Lovecraft, um, story. Uh, and it was. Pretty good. I liked that one. Really. I picked this one at the last minute we had something else planned and, uh, I couldn’t find it. And because we’re on opposite sides of the world, it’s not easy to immediately communicate. So I didn’t have time to talk to you about what we should do. And so, uh, I just went to Hulu to see what was on my to watch list and this was on my to watch list and it was also the leaving soon list. So I thought, well, let’s give it a go Todd: the best, our best shot at it. And how do we feel about that choice? It’s I don’t know, man, people, people rag on Nicholas cage a lot. There are a lot of movies there, quite a few movies he’s been in that I’ve really liked. And I hadn’t really had a problem with his performances. I hadn’t really cared. Yeah, he goes crazy. And a lot of them, whatever it’s Nicholas cage, but also maybe it was just because back in the days of the rock and that kind of thing, like, uh, he hadn’t done, you know, 20 rolls in a row that were almost like the same character. So it didn’t bother me as much, then it doesn’t really bother me now. I don’t care. Um, Arnold Schwartzenegger is in a bunch of movies and he just plays a big muscular, tough guy, generally speaking. So, uh, I don’t really have this. These weird feelings about Nick cage, just like a little while ago, I was saying maybe it was on this podcast may was just a conversation over coffee that I don’t really have a problem with Keanu Reeves either. You were good at playing a certain kind of role. Those are the roles you’re going to get. And, uh, generally speaking, Nick cage is really good at going crazy. So he might get those roles and this movie is kind of crazy. I don’t know. I never heard of this before. What did it play in the theaters or was this like a straight to streaming? Craig: I, I don’t know. Uh, I think this movie got a theatrical release. I’m not really sure. It’s uh, yeah, it’s bizarre. I had heard of it. I, I don’t know if it was. Just, you know, perusing horror websites or what, but I had heard of it around the time that it came out and I’m not a huge NIC cage fan either. I don’t have, um, any problem with him. A, you know, he is what he is. And I feel like, uh, especially these days, he’s really kind of embraced his unique acting style and he puts it on display in the films that he’s in and he gets work. Obviously there must be an audience for him. Um, he must have his fans. Uh, he’s a little bit over the top, kind of a kin in my. Perspective to like Jim Carey, not really my cup of tea, but you know, I get it. They have their own particular acting style and that’s fine. I think that I was more interested in the movie because of Selma Blair. Um, I really liked Selma Blair. I’ve been a fan of hers for a long time. I think. The first time that I was introduced to her was, um, in cruel intentions, uh, which is such a schlocky movie in hindsight, but, and she played such a silly character in it. Um, but I really enjoyed her in that. And she’s done a lot since then. She was in a John Waters movie with. Tracy Ullman, uh, that was crazy and off the wall. And I liked her in that. Um, and, and she’s done TV and other movies. I would say that. If this movie has anything going for it and it may have more than one thing going for it. But I think that Selma Blair is the shining light of this movie. I just think that her, I don’t know, there’s something about her. She’s interesting. Um, she’s endearing, sadly, you know, um, in recent years she’s been diagnosed with Ms, which has really re yeah. And it’s really restricted. Did, um, what she’s been able to do as far as work is concerned, but as far as her life is concerned, she’s a fighter. And, uh, she’s a spokesperson for Ms. And, uh, she’s, she’s living her life with support, you know, from her fans and from her friends like Sarah, Michelle Gellar, like Elizabeth Berkley from saved by the bell. It was actually Elizabeth Berkley who recommended that. Uh, she go get checked out. Elizabeth Berkeley’s brother apparently is the doctor. And, uh, she referred Selma to her brother and it was, uh, he, that, um, diagnosed her with Ms. And, um, when she was finally diagnosed, she was relieved more than anything. Because she had been struggling with symptoms for so long. Um, she said that she estimates that she had probably been dealing with symptoms of Ms for 15 years before, uh, she was actually diagnosed. Um, so, you know, it’s a struggle that she faces as you many people around the world, Ms. Is, is a terrible debilitating disease, but she’s a tough broad, and, uh, I like her you’re right. Todd: She was definitely the shining star in this movie. Brian Taylor is the writer director of this. Uh, he tends to do more high concept films. I think he did crank, which was one of Jason’s datums earlier films, which is a, again, another high concept movie of this guy who has to keep adrenaline going in his blood or he’ll die. Cause he gets injected with this thing. And this movie is kind of like that, uh, in that it’s, it’s, it’s a high concept idea and it is so simple. It’s basically one day for, for reasons we never. Never understand or know all the parents in the world decide they need to kill their kids, Craig: their kids. It’s really, it’s a really interesting concept and you’re right. That we never know what is going on. It seems like somehow there’s some sort of signal through televisions or something like through static and television. That seems to be the trigger, but it happens to different people at different times. Um, and, and we never know the root cause of it, but I think that the concept of eventually, you know, like the news stations. Try to explain it. They, they say, you know, consider parental instinct and how your parental instinct is to protect your kids at all costs. But what if somehow that instinct could be reversed? And I feel like that’s a really interesting concept, but I just felt like ultimately it just didn’t play out like. Well, I have to say upfront as much as I was looking forward to watching this movie, I walked away from it more than disappointed, actually a little bit pissed off. Todd: Yeah. Similarly, and this movie gets really great critical acclaim. I mean the rotten tomatoes score is high and all that, and they were saying, wow, it just, I didn’t find it that deep. I felt like it’s just like, it’s like a joke, you know, it’s like a, it’s like a J one punchline movie that just extends for an hour and a half. And I found it kind of boring after a while, honestly, because it didn’t really have anything beyond that to say, you know, you watch a movie like the purge, for example, maybe that’s somewhat close to this in a, in a way, you know, where just suddenly society’s kind of gone wrong and society’s kind of, you know, but, but, but that, that film. The concept has a lot to unpack this notion that, you know, we, we, we have one night, a year to kind of, uh, deal with our violence so that we can’t be, you know, we’re not violent anymore. And, uh, all of that, I mean, there’s a lot behind that. There’s, there would have to be a history to that. There’s sort of political ramifications. There’s a lot to say. This is just sort of the idea that, you know, We love our kids. I’m speaking as a father now, unconditionally, we’re supposed to anyway, we generally do, unless there’s something majorly wrong with us, but we don’t always like them. You know, they, they, and I, you know, and even if you’re not a parent, you were a kid once. And you remember how you treated your parents and what a douchebag you could be at times, and, or it’s coincidental that I’m watching this movie this moment because my son just turned four and he up until about six months ago was the most compliant. Sweet. Just generally smart and kind of like insightful little, little kid. And, uh, we would go to play dates and, uh, he would be the one who, you know, some kid was hitting or punching or kicking him or whatever. He would just kind of look in amazement, like what’s going on? Why are you doing that? And I was really always proud of that. I heard about the terrible twos and we get through the terrible twos and almost the terrible three supposedly. And there’s nothing, but now here we are at four and he’s become that kid now. Uh, and if there’s one thing I’ve learned about being a parent, it’s that there’s never any like Stacey Russ, it’s always like, just when you get into this routine, just when you think everything’s sort of settled and, uh, you’ve, you’re starting to learn about your child’s personality and everything’s kind of congealing and, and into something routine, it changes. I think it’s just the nature of child development, you know, went through all of us and it’s something that we all put our parents through. And, you know, it’s tough to deal with as a parent, it just is tough to deal with, and it makes you feel guilty because you just want to wring their necks sometimes, you know, like big, you know, so this movie just takes that notion and make some, makes a movie out of it. But. But the problem is that’s it like, okay, like this is a normal part of Parenthood, normal part of the way we are. There’s nothing more to say about it. So once that was sort of established, here’s the idea, it just became a bunch of kids running away from their parents who were trying to kill him. Right. It didn’t have anything more to say, now don’t get me wrong. It leaves lots of room for black comedy and dark humor and kind of poking fun at this notion that ah, you know, Well, so we could have really kill our kids sometimes. And, but this movie does what horror does. You know, horror is generally not subtle as a genre. It really kind of rebels in taking something and, um, Making it extreme and playing that out in front of us. So that’s what it does. So this isn’t a subtle psychological study of the, uh, bond between parents and children and what that means as they develop and grow older and how the end of the toll that it takes on them. It’s a horror movie that just says, Oh, one day. Parents decide they’ve had enough for some reason. And, uh, all of their psychological frustrations on their kids get taken out in the most extreme ways. And that the very matter of faculty, they decide they need to kill them. And like you said, not anybody else’s kids just. Their own. Right. So I found it boring after a while. Honestly, I was kind of ready for the movie to be over after about an hour. Craig: Yeah. See, I think that the, my problem with it is more on me because I had expectations for where I thought it was surely going to go. And when it didn’t go there, I, it irritated me. Um, I, and, and I think that maybe it’s because I’m not. Used to these type of movies. I think that they are going for a modern Grindhouse kind of feel. Um, and I, and it’s, it’s very nihilistic. Like it opens up. The very first thing we see is a mother with. Uh, uh, baby little tiny kid in the backseat of the car, in a car seat. And she gets out of the car and walks away and we realized that she’s left the car on the train tracks and the train just smashes this car. And that’s the first thing we see after that. Then there’s this really interesting seventies style Grindhouse style opening credits, which had me excited Todd: me too retro. It was just. Charming and fun. And I thought, okay, this is what we’re going to get. And then. W we didn’t get that, like, like the movie has a very modern style to it. I thought Craig: a very modernist aesthetic. Yeah. Todd: That was so disappointing, Craig: which is strange because it does end up being pretty nihilistic. I mean, it it’s, it’s the story of this family. We’ve already mentioned the parents, Nick cage plays Brent. He’s the dad, some of Blair plays Kendall. She’s the mom. Um, there’s a teenage daughter. Carly played by Anne winters and a son who I guess was supposed to be probably like seven, I guess. I don’t know. Um, I felt like they had him playing a little bit younger than he looked, but whatever. Um, his name is, uh, Josh played by a kid named Zach Arthur. I don’t know anything about any of these people except, um, the two Todd: leads, but they’re all well accomplished. I mean their own lot of stuff. It’s acting movies. TV, they’re all over there somewhere. I know, just not instantly recognizable Craig: and, and it just establishes them as a family in the beginning. And, you know, at this point they’re very typical. You know, the son is still very young and sweet and cute and running around in his little pajamas. Meanwhile, the teenager. Is a teenager like, um, you were talking about, you know, your four year old and all of a sudden he’s somebody that, you know, you don’t recognize from six months ago or whatever, but that, I think that happens to virtually every parent, when their kids become teenagers, I was horrible as a T like, I wasn’t super rebellious as a teenager, but I was a smart ass. And I thought I knew everything and I thought I knew better than my parents. And I was constant. I was constantly in conflict and fighting with my parents and my parents were great parents. I was the one that was being a Dick, but at the time I didn’t realize it. And you feel like, you know, people go through that as teenagers and I’m sure that’s really hard on parents and it does seem to be particularly hard on Kendall. The mom. Driving the teenage daughter to school, she’s trying to connect with her. She’s trying to talk with, to her, you know, why don’t you talk to me anymore, part of a family, Carly. And that means that you love each other, even when you can’t stand each other and that you give a shit, even when you don’t really give a shit. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. It’s just for me, you and Josh are everything. So you don’t get to just shut me out. It’s not fair. It’s not my fault. You have no life. I would have said that to my dad. And then we would have. Had a horrible, shouting match. Nothing in my life was better for my relationship with my parents than when I moved out. Um, and I moved out fall semester college. I immediately moved out of the house. Never went back. I don’t think I’ve spent a night at my parents’ house. Um, since that time and I was ready to go, my parents were ready for me to go. And our relationship improved 10 fold. Like we get along great now. And even then, you know, immediately, as soon as I was out of the house we got on. Great. But I understand how this mother, you know, she’s sad and I, I can imagine. I don’t know. And we’ll never know because I don’t have kids, but I can only imagine how sad that is. Um, on the other hand, and this is something that I kind of had a problem with in the movie was Nick cage as a Brent, there’s an after this whole scene in the car with the mother and daughter, then there’s a scene where the kid is lying on the couch and it’s a very. Ominous shot of Brent approaching Josh. It looks like he’s going to attack him, which I mean, I guess kind of he does, but it’s a tickle fight, but then right after that, he, the dad’s getting ready to leave for work. And, uh, Josh throws like a Nerf ball or something. Adam and it hits him in the head and it looks like he’s almost ready to snap and, and rip this kid’s head off then. And this is well before the sickness has impacted him. So, and throughout the movie, I got the sense that the dad is bat shit crazy Loco Todd: from the beginning. Yeah. Well, The thing is, I felt like you’re right. And that was a problem because it just kind of clouds everything. You’re not quite sure it doesn’t seem consistent with what the movie is trying to be, where it’s supposed to be horrifying that these otherwise relatively normal loving families. Have these issues, but then again, dad is going through clearly some sort of midlife crisis. And I think that’s, what’s maybe in between that clouds things a little bit, because he gets these little flashbacks, like he goes to his car and he just looks inside the car as he’s about to step into it. And he has this, what is it? A Firebird it’s like a classic car. Trans-Am and there’s a whole story behind it that we hear later where he tr he crashed it with his father, made him pay to have it repaired. Now he owns it, blah, blah, blah. But, um, there’s this quick flashback to him as a young kid, you know, running around, doing donuts in this car with his half naked girlfriend sitting in his lap and kind of having the time of his life. A little over the top, you know, but, uh, I mean, I guess it gets the point across that he had Wilder days and they’re done, and he has this reminder of the Wilder days and he regrets the fact that he doesn’t have those wild days anymore. And now he’s just got two bratty kids. I mean, I felt like maybe there was a little bit of that that was supposed to be coming out here. It’s just dads going through midlife crisis. Not necessarily going crazy, but you’re right. Like the movie plays with it enough. You know, what makes a tickle fight seem sinister. And then that seems like a joke, right? It’s just a tickle fight. But then when he throws a Nerf ball at him, that’s not a joke. Right. And so I’m not sure if we’re supposed to read that as this is sort of a crazy guy, or this is a guy who, you know, I mean, just cause he had, uh, your, your playing around with your son doesn’t mean your son has permission to whack you over the back of the head or if it’s this. Guys going through this midlife crisis, he’s having these issues. And so he, his emotions are kind of conflicted or is that the early onset of whatever is affecting all these parents is sort of slowly creeping in. And you know, it’s not just a sudden switch, that’s flipped in their heads, but it’s something that kind of creeps in. And that, that was just a foreshadowing of that. I’m really not sure what to make of that scene, but yeah, I mean, the scene was. Obvious and intentional and very dramatic. So, uh, I mean, what, what it did more than anything else, it’s just really set up attention. Like something’s weird here. Like something’s going to be going on. Yeah. Craig: I wanted to believe that it was that, you know, whatever this was that was happening to these parents, that it was slowly setting in with Nick cage. But ultimately, I don’t think that that’s the case because it seems like everybody else Todd: he’s late to turn. Right. He’s late to turn he Craig: is, but everybody else who turns right. Um, it’s, it’s Todd: immediate, but, but do we see that though? I mean, we see, yes, we see the immediate turn in the others and we just see that they’ve turned, Craig: we see the immediate turn it’s in my favorite scene, which comes later. But like, I feel like everything that happens up until that part is kind of just boring. Todd: Like, yeah. It’s just setting up kids at school here. All the friends here are the relationships. She’s got a boyfriend, blah, blah, blah. Craig: Right. And, and like, the teacher gives this big lecture about planned obsolescence, about how like technology manufacturers intentionally keep putting out new things so that the old things will become obsolete. And I thought that that was going to be like significant, but if it was and went right over my head, they spent so much time on it. Yeah. It was weird. Todd: I wasn’t sure about that either, but I’m trying to think about it now. Like, does that mean, are they talking about like, like, like kids and adults, like grow older and so then you kind of become obsolete and. Uh, uh, I don’t know. I don’t either in the eyes of the younger generation or Craig: right. I don’t know either. We, I mean, we do start to see some ominous things. It’s like a zombie movie where you kind of start seeing things in the background that should suggest you because we know we’re watching a horror movie. We know what to watch for, but like kids are being called out of class at the daughter’s school. Cops are showing up. Their, um, parents are like ominously waiting right outside the door of the PSA T where Carly’s boyfriend is, is taking the PSA. But when he goes out, nobody bothered there’s him. You know, because it’s not his parents, they’re just waiting for their kids to come out. The daughter gets her phone confiscated, which again, I thought it was going to be significant, but really wasn’t like, I thought, Oh, ha, they’re setting this up. So she can’t doesn’t have her phone. But like it never even, yeah. Is an issue. And then they evacuate that an alarm goes off. The whole high school starts evacuating. These parents are waiting on the other side of offense. Um, and they’re beckoning their kids to the fence, but most of the kids aren’t going, but one kid finally does run to his mom and tries to jump the fence. And the cops and the teacher tried to pull him back, but the parents get them over and the moms stabs him to death with her car keys. And at that point, the parents breach the fence. And this is probably the most fun sequence. There’s tons of chaos. As all of these parents are chasing all of these kids, but, and they’re chasing them through the parking lot and across the football field and like these great big fat middle-aged dads are like, their kids. And, um, it, it was a fun scene. It doesn’t go on for very long. Carly and her female friend see parents like running towards them and they cower in fear, but the parents just run by. So I feel like it’s at that point that they realize, and we should have at this point have already realized that they’re, the parents are only going after. Their own kids. And I really liked that part. Like I, so I’m stretching for things to say because it’s like things keep happening, but. Nothing is particularly significant. Like Damon gets attacked, but th that’s the boyfriend gets attacked by his dad and his dad ends up falling on the bow. He breaks a bottle to attack his son with and he ends up falling on it on his neck. Can we talk Todd: about this for a second too? There’s some kind of problematic things in here. I thought the thing that day. Okay. The one child of color. In this movie is the one whose dad is clearly like an alcoholic and an abuser and abuser and, and it’s, and, you know, it’s kind of made to be like the way that he is now with this affliction. Isn’t too far off from the way he is pretty much every day, you know, just one step away from murdering his son. And I thought, Oh, come on. Really? You know, and then the family has a housekeeper who’s Chinese who has a daughter and. I don’t know, man, I’m sorry. Maybe also, because I live in China and it wasn’t even right. The way she was speaking with her. Chinglish like, it was a complete caricature of a. Chinese made or whatever housekeeper in, you can barely speak English in the, his house. And it was supposed to be kind of funny, but I thought it was cringy the way that she talked and the stuff that she said. I don’t know, man. There was some that was weird too. It was supposed to be funny, I think, but I didn’t find it funny. A little racist. Craig: Yeah. I get what you’re saying. It’s not as though, um, non-American housekeepers don’t exist, right? Like Todd: what they do and they don’t believe it. Perfect English and all that, but, but there’s a difference between the way it kind of really is. And the way that like a cartoon character version of that would be, and I felt like she was closer to that. And when Craig: you’re. Presentation of minority characters play into those stereotypes. Yeah. Yeah. It’s I agree with you. It’s it’s a little, uh huh. But Oh God, the mom, uh, Kendall has a flashback where like she wanted to go back to her old job after the kids were a little bit older, but the boss treats her as though, you know, like she’s useless. Because she’s been out of the field for so long and she cries in her car, but then she gets a call from her sister and we knew that she was waiting for this call because her sister was going to be going into labor and she gets this call and it’s obvious that it is the call. And as soon as I realized that we were going to be seeing a delivery scene, I thought, Oh man, Oh, this is going to be bad right before she gets there. The teenage girls like smoke some weed and then see news footage of parents killing their kids and Dr. Oz cameos, um, explaining, explaining savaging, which is apparently a phenomenon in nature where animals killed their kids. I don’t know. Uh, Carly’s friend. Gets murdered by her mother, which Carly sees and screams and runaway runs away. And then, okay. So I previewed it. 10 minutes ago, but finally getting there. My favorite scene, Kendall is in the hospital with her little sister who is giving birth after she gives birth, she holds the baby and she’s like loving on the baby. And then all of a sudden on a TV screen in the delivery, every room, the static screen comes on and everybody notices it. And I have to say that one of my favorite things about this movie was, um, The soundtrack. I thought they made excellent use of music, and this was my favorite. Part, yes, this new mother, this new mother is holding her baby and they see the static screen. And all of a sudden you hear ding, ding, ding, and it is rock sets. It must have been love. Oh, I thought it was so funny. Cause the words of the song are, it must have been love. Oh, nah, Todd: it was Craig: brand new and the new mother starts trying to squeeze the daughter to death and Kendall freaks out. Starts trying to tear the baby away. And, um, the new mom is like trying to grab a scalpel off the medical tray next to her is trying to stab the baby. They eventually get the baby away from her and I think they have to knock her out or something. Um, but that scene was really tense. Todd: It really was. Craig: And I just thought the movie was. Or the music was gold. Like I was just laughing out loud and I’m like, this is so good. Uh, that was my favorite part of the movie. Todd: Yeah. It’s one of those eerie juxtapositions, right? Where you have this kind of music, that’s kind of supposed to evoke something different from what you’re seeing on the screen, but also kind of fits. And then that’s followed up by, you know, a shot of all of these expect and fathers and mothers, whatever, just. Standing outside the nursery staring in the window, like very patiently staring in the window, like waiting, like, like just get that baby into my hands, you know? And it was so creepy. So it had these really cool creepy moments. Right. And this really eerie stuff and a lot of mystery to like, what’s going on, what’s with the static. Why are these parents turning like, what is causing this to happen? But then. I don’t think the movie’s really interested in the reason. No. Like I said, at that point, I mean, all of the exploration is kind of done. Right? And so all we get is parents chasing after kids and kids trying to defend themselves and that culminates and Josh and Carly holding themselves up in the basement, trying to get away from mom and dad when mom and dad. Finally turn. And it seems to me like Kendall turns a little bit later than everybody else. And I wondered if that was significant Craig: in some way. We’ll see. I don’t know because you know, she, the interesting thing about it is they, the movie seems to suggest that that static on the TV is what triggers the change. However, they only then. Seem to be triggered at the sight of their children. So like, I assume that Kendall was, you know, she was exposed to that signal at some point during the day. But for some reason, it’s, you know, even after that, she’s concerned about her kids, she wants to get to her kids and she hears on the radio. Somebody saying, whatever you do, stay away from your kids because. It seems like until they see their kids, everybody’s normal. And then they see their kids and they freak out and they kill them. And then they’re basically still normal, except they’re remorseless about what they have done. They interview a guy on TV. Intellectually, I should feel devastated. This should be the most awful thing that can happen to anybody. I get that, please. Just, I’m trying to sum it up. Some crocodile tears for you, just so you don’t think I’m a monster. Do you think it’s good? What’s happening? Absolutely not. I think it’s horrible with time. But for you, it was exactly Todd: right. It had to be done. Yeah. Yeah. Craig: It’s, it’s really kind of bizarre. And we get like all of these. Um, and they do, you know, uh, Damon and Carly get back to the house and where they find the housekeeper who has killed her own daughter, who was there helping. And she’s just, you know, cleaning up as though nothing is weird, but then the dad does get home and he has a really super angry conversation with the boyfriend before he even sees his kids, which again, makes him seem like he’s unhinged. Already, but then when he sees the kids, he immediately tries to attack and he brutally knocks Damon out on the floor and chases the kids and the kids go down to the basement when we get a flashback and we keep having these flashbacks that I feel like are supposed to establish something, but I don’t really get what, like. It says three weeks ago. And we see that the dad is building a pool table and then Kendall comes down, the wife comes down and fights with him about it. Like we can’t afford this or whatever. And it, you know, it does seem like he’s having a midlife crisis. Like he’s building a man cave or whatever, but he’s not. That’s like she chastises him mildly for doing this without consulting her in for spending money when they can’t really afford it. So he picks up a sledgehammer and destroys. Like it’s a big scene of him destroying this pool table that he had just put together while singing some kid’s song. What does he sing? Like? The hokey pokey or smell super crazy. And then they, and then they sit down and the dad, Nick cage has this whole monologue where he’s just crazy feeling, sorry for himself about, you know, how he used to be Brant, you know? And he was super cool. And . And the wife sits down and very calmly is like, look, I get it. There’s this bigger thing all your life, you know, it’s coming. And there’s this mix of anxiety and excitement and terror because you know that one day inevitably you’ll create this. Hugeness of it, the importance of it, everything is building to that moment and then it happens. And no matter what you thought it would be. It’s not like, I know this is the way things are supposed to be. I know we’re doing it right. It’s just hard to get my head around, you know? I mean, I used to be branch and you used to be Kendall now. We’re just mom and dad. Yeah. And I felt like that was supposed to be a really significant part of the movie. And I. I get it. I understand the message. It’s true. You know, we all grow up. I was wild and fun to one. Now I’m in bed by 10 o’clock every night. Like I used to be wild, fun. Crazy party guy. And now I’m just Mr. Higgins, you know, like I get it, but get over Todd: it. Right. And so it’s not super sympathetic. I mean, you understand it, but at the same time, like parent or not, this is what happens, right. I mean, you know, it’s not really about being a parent that that happens to you. It’s just part of growing up. So it’s, it’s not quite. There, you know, she, I think what I think what she actually says is she, when she’s talking about the kids, she says, you, no matter how you think they will end up, it’s not like that. So she’s kind of saying, you know, you have this vision for your children. It’s probably very positive. You, you know how you’re going to have a relationship with them, how they’re going to grow power, they’re going to turn out and then. It’s just not ever that way for anybody, you know, and that’s depressing that that’s a different point, right? From the midlife crisis point of, I used to be wild and crazy and have my own identity. And now I feel like a completely different person blaming the kids for that. Uh, I don’t know, you know, Craig: like it’s yeah. I was going to say like, I feel like I understand it conceptually, but it’s naive. Like, no, your kids aren’t going to be exactly who you expect them to be. They are people, you know, they are individuals and they’re going to make their own choices and they’re going to be their own person and they’re going to screw up and they’re going to do things that you don’t agree with. Like. You should know that going in. Right. Well, and you all, like you said before, we were all kids once, you know, like, yeah, geez. Todd: Well, and you and your kids didn’t make you lame your job. Did your, uh, growing up being an adult did, it’s just natural part of life as you grow up and you don’t do those wild, crazy most of us anyway, do we don’t do those wild, crazy things anymore because we have responsibilities now because nobody’s taking care of us. So you have to take care of ourselves. And that sometimes involves, uh, you know, a lot of work and, and a lot of struggle. And then, you know, you don’t have time for running around and driving around in cars with half naked chicks on your lap. And so like, there’s it doesn’t connect. I don’t think it’s a complete Craig: point. And the mom’s response is a little bit more sympathetic, but the dads it’s, it’s like the more I talk about it, the more it irritates me, like when you grow up your priorities change and they should, and he is like that loser at the bar. Who’s just constantly thinking back on his high school glory days, like grow up like Todd: w and it’s. It’s not your kid’s fault, right? It’s not the, it’s not becoming a dad that made you this way. You know, maybe to a certain extent, the kids are just more responsibility. So they’re more things, quote, unquote, dragging you down, but also wait a few more years and your daughter’s going to be out of the house. And it’s like, I mean, and you’re in a, you got a nice job and you’ve got to like a clearly like established neighborhood and everything’s internal, everything’s personal for him. But it’s all inward. And so I’m really kind of failing to see the point that the movies making, I mean, on the surface, when you hear this conversation, it kind of seems to make sense, but when you really think about it, it doesn’t. Craig: Yeah. And you’re kind of shitty people and you’re kind of shitty parents, if that’s the way that you feel and that, you know, everybody, you know, I can only imagine that parents have rough. Days and, and difficult times, and everybody does. And I get that, but it just seems like he, especially, I do get the sense that Kendall is sad and disappointed that she doesn’t have the relationship that she would like to have with her daughter. And I get that, but the, and maybe it’s just Nick Cage’s performance, but his he’s just, he’s only focused on him. It’s like, he feels so sorry for himself. And. I don’t feel sorry for you. Like you’re just a douche bag. Todd: Here’s the other thing, too, when you get mad at your kids or when I do it to this level where you just like, want to, like, not literally, but you just feel like you want to strangle them or you want to shake some sense into them. It’s usually because of an immediate thing, like they are completely tearing into your day or you are super tired and now they’re being an asshole and it just is irritating. Right. These kids are, they’re just normal teenagers and they’re not causing major strife in the household. You could say the, probably most of these kids at this school are not coming home and acting like four or five year olds, or they’re fine. One second and crazy the next. And you’re irritated at them. You’re mad at them and you just want to strangle them. It’s just not that way. So. No, I get it. I realize the movie’s trying to be kind of a Twilight zone. What if type thing? And it’s trying to make this point. It’s just a hard thing for me to get behind and, and, and really care about it. It’s like sort of like too high concept maybe is what is what I’m saying. It it’s incomplete. It doesn’t really work for me the way it was presented in the movie. Craig: The more that we talk about it, the more that I realized that that’s kind of what my big problem with it was because I didn’t really care the way that I wanted it to turn out is I wanted. I wanted their parental instincts to somehow overcome whatever this was. And, and I just expected. That in the end, you know, I thought, well, maybe Nick cage will die because he’s an asshole, but you know, Kendall seems nice. You know, she can overcome this something, Todd: we’ll talk her out of it. Right. Somehow. Yeah. Something will snap her out Craig: of it. But what does happen? And as Kendall gets home and she immediately switches to. And so both the parents now are going after the kids and, you know, Kendall tries to trick them by pretending to be nice. They’re locked in the basement and she tries to coax them out. The, the kids won’t come out. And so then, uh, Nick cage releases a tie, right? Tirade of mother efforts. That’s it like, he’s good at it. Eight times in a row. So silly. And so then. The parents tried to get in and they try to solve their way in the, the son has a gun, uh, where there’s a flashback where we see him playing with a gun, which is terrifying to me that that just made my blood run cold, but they shoot and I think Kendall gets shot, but she’s. Fine. Um, when they can’t get them out, even though the hinges are on their side of the door, I could have easily just take Todd: it, figure that out myself Craig: when they can’t get them out, then they decide that they’re going to run a garden hose. Um, from the gas line in the kitchen, into a basement window and gas them up, that Todd: was, you know, all of this was so weirdly elaborate. Right? I mean, come on. Like he had his saws all just saw through the door. It just like you did, once you realized that, you know, you thought the kids were gassed enough, which is what they do, except the daughter is kind of smart and she finds this place that she can kind of, that they could maybe hide and crawl out of the basement through the wall or something. And so then she gets some matches and the match thing. And does this sort of MacGyver type thing where she tapes the matches on the door. So that. When the door opens, it’s going to create a spark. That’s going to ignite the gas or whatever, but they’ll be safe because they’re already gone and it does a Nick cage gets blown away. The Craig: mom is totally okay. The dad is. Uh, burned but alive the kids, I don’t know if they were trying to get away or whatever, but they’re in the house now. And the mom sees them and chases them and there’s, you know, like a flashback to nice times between mom and daughter. And then the mom gets in and is like fighting and biting at the daughter. And the boyfriend is somehow now magically awake and he’s helping out. And I don’t know. I think I usually watch these movies stone cold sober during the day, but because it was so last minute, um, I had to, uh, convince Alan to watch it with me. And one of the only ways that I was able to do that was like, well, we can have a couple drinks. Todd: So, Craig: so at this point, I think I might’ve been a little drunk, so I’m a little fuzzy. Todd: Well, it’s all it was is just a bunch of fighting. I mean, It was well done, I guess it was, seemed very brutal the way it was filmed, lots of close-ups and flashes and sped up things. And, and, uh, again, it kind of committed that sin, sometimes aware things are cuts are so rapid. You don’t really have a sense of what’s happening, but like you said, the sound design was really good and it made everything. Very visceral and raw and that bit I did like, I mean, I thought the cinematography and stuff was nice. The problem is like, like you said, they were going for this Grindhouse thing, which, which isn’t generally known for it. It just had still as stylized as it was. And as brutal as it was, it was still very modern aesthetic. And that was a little disappointing because I felt like they were. From the beginning credits and from the theme of the movie and where it ended up, I felt like they were trying for something more retro, but it didn’t play that way. So it wasn’t even interesting in that way. For me, I was just ready for it to be over, but just okay. Just who wins, who wins, fight, fight your parents. And I almost fast forward through all this. It wasn’t that great. Craig: Wait there, I mean, there is some good brutality, like the mom. Um, stabs Damon, the boyfriend through the cheek with the coat hanger. Yeah, that looks kind of cool. And then she pushes him over the stair railing where he falls flat on the, you know, like tile floor below. And I thought he was surely dead, but he’s not like how he should have been dead several times, but my, okay. So my second favorite part, they had casually mentioned in the very beginning that the grandparents were coming over later. And so just as the parents are about to like, get the kids, the doorbell rings and they’re like, Oh, it’s grandma and grandpa. And I saw this coming too. And I was so excited. Um, the dad went to the door to, and was like, mom and dad. It’s really not a good time or something. And his mom pepper sprays him and his. Dad played by Lance Hendrix. Yes. Stabs him and Josh, the little boy begs the grandpa not to hurt the dad and the grandpa’s like, he still loves the grandson. Like he’s like, Oh, Sunday, don’t worry or whatever. Um, but then it’s a hilarious cat and mouse thing where. Nicholas cage is chasing his son and then his dad is chasing him. Oh my God. Money. And they end up in the Trans-Am and like each father is trying to kill their son. Um, Kendall is fighting with her mother-in-law who, this was hilarious too, because it turns out that the mother-in-law just hates Kendall anymore. She’s it’s not because it’s her daughter. It’s just because she hates her and she’s a bitch. And so they’re fighting the Trans-Am somehow gets started and. Bursts out of the garage and ends up hitting the mother-in-law. And I liked when the grandpa’s is, is fighting with the dad and he’s like, I fought in Wars, whatever. Yeah. The grandma gets taken out by the Trans-Am Damon knocks out. I don’t remember what happens to the grandma or grandpa. Um, Damon knocks out Kendall. With a shovel. And then the next thing we see are they have mom and dad, um, Kendall and Brent, both tied up in the basement and they’re trying to like pretend to be nice and talking about how much they love them. And then Nick cage says, we love you, but sometimes we just want to, and then it cuts to black and that’s the end. And I was so pissed off. Like there’s no resolution. It all. Todd: Yeah, no worries. No explanation. I could have done with the no explanation, but no resolution was kind of, I guess God, I thought this movie would have been a good black mirror episode. Could have been interesting. Shorter form. Well, those aren’t that short, I guess, but they’re about an hour. Yeah. This, this movie just got boring real fast for me. And I didn’t feel like it really went anywhere. It made its little point. It wasn’t even that coherent of a point and a, that fully formed, I should say of a point. And then, uh, it was just watching them all fight for a while and, and run away from each other. And then again, that it was well done in that respect. You know, I mean, it was, well, it was exciting fight scenes and stuff, but even sort of like watching transformers, you know, you watch enough of this. If the fighting goes on for too long with basically no break, it does get boring. And I did get to that point. And then it just seemed like a, you know, a kind of a vehicle for a bunch of these little silly jokes. And, uh, and that was fine. At least there were jokes, but. Oh, I don’t know. It’s disappointing was Craig: disappointing. Especially I had been looking forward to watching it for a long time. It had been on my list for a long time. Alan’s in here. He just gave it two big thumbs down in case you were Todd: well he’s among the minority. Apparently. My goodness. I know because Craig: yeah, it’s got a, it’s got a decent, um, rotten tomatoes score. I just, I don’t get it. Like it, it didn’t work for me at all. I ultimately, I was kind of disappointed that I felt bad for making out and watch it. I kind of felt bad for making you watch it. I think I texted you and I was like, dude, it’s, it’s pretty lame. Sorry. Todd: I’ll never forgive you. Craig: Whatever it is what it is. And there are people out there who like it and it’s, so if you’re, if you’re one of those people, shoot us a message or comment on our Facebook posts and let us know what we’re missing, because I feel like I’m missing something aside from Selma Blair, who I really did think did it. I thought she did a really good job. I liked she, Todd: dear performance was very nuanced. Craig: Yeah, I really liked her beyond that. I just, there was that, that’s it? I mean, there was nothing else for me to really like, except Todd: for the music, honestly, it was the nuance of her performance that made me really hold out hope that she was going to turn back. Like you said earlier, like she was going to come to some realization or something was going to snap back. And it was really curious to see what that would be. I Craig: thought maybe she would have to turn on the huddle. Spend to protect the kids, which could have been interesting. I don’t know. Maybe it’s my desire for things to be tied up in it. Nice way that is impacting my overall view of it. And you know, that’s not really fair. Filmmakers are under no, you know, they’re, they’re not required to meet my expectations every time in term of, in, in terms of storytelling, but, uh, it just didn’t work for me, but Todd: the, the, the lack of resolution kind of. Makes the point incomplete, right? Like what’s the movie trying to say, like, I feel like only some kind of resolution here would have clarified that instead what the movie is saying is, Hey, you know, sometimes parents hate their kids. That’s it that’s it. So, anyway, well, it was interesting to chat about it. Nonetheless. Thank you, Craig: Greg. Yeah, there’s something that I can grab onto to say, well, if you like this, if you like this, I don’t know. I, I mean, I guess if you really, really like some of layer or you really, really like Nick cage, I mean, if you’re a Nick cage fan, like you’re going to get Nick cage and all his glory. So I guess there’s that, but I’m not a huge, I mean, I think he’s, Todd: I know that he said this was at the time anyway. His favorite role in 10 years? Craig: Yes. Well then like Clinton Tarantino loves. This movie there’s a lot of people do again. Seriously fill us in, what are we saying? But yeah, that’s, that’s it. I I’m I’m I’m spinning me too. Todd: Well, thank you for listening to another episode. If you enjoyed it, please share it with a friend. You can just search us online, two guys and a chainsaw, and you can find our Facebook page or Twitter feed and our website. You can leave us a message at any one of those places and they give us some feedback. Till then, let us know what we’re missing about this movie, and also, uh, suggest some other movies for us to do in the future until then. I’m Todd and I’m Craig with Two Guys and a Chainsaw. The post Mom and Dad appeared first on 2 Guys & A Chainsaw.
57 minutes | a month ago
Ahhhh...just what we were looking for as spring hits: A movie about Fall Break. Whatever that is, it's the sunny original title of the forgettable-but-memorable 80's slasher "The Mutilator" that everyone has already forgotten about. You love those "so bad it's good" movies? Look no further. We got exactly what we were looking for with this one, with a catchy theme song thrown in. Some films just go the extra mile. The post The Mutilator appeared first on 2 Guys & A Chainsaw.
60 minutes | a month ago
This week we tackle a difficult-to-watch request from another loyal listener. Right in line with Lucky McKee's incredibly female-centric filmography, The Woman is an uncomfortable watch that gave us a lot to discuss and consider. Expand to read episode transcript Automatic Transcript The Woman (2011) Episode 252, 2 Guys and a Chainsaw Todd: Hello and welcome to another episode of Two Guys and a Chainsaw. I’m Todd. Craig: I’m Craig. Todd: Well, today we start off with another request. This is by Andrew. We haven’t done requests for awhile, so we thought we would get back to some of these after our 250th episode, blow out and do a film called the woman. This is a movie by lucky McKee. We’ve done. Uh, we’ve done a couple movies, but, well, we’ve done may by lucky McKee on our podcast before. And then there was a really intriguing segment on an anthology film called XX that we did called the box, uh, which lucky Mickey also directed. He’s had a really interesting filmography as far as horror is concerned and, and mostly horror is what he’s done back in the day. There was an author named HP Lovecraft, perhaps you’ve heard of him and he mentored a guy named Robert block. Perhaps you’ve heard of him as well. Uh, among other things he wrote psycho and Robert block mentored an up and coming writer back in the early eighties named Jack Ketchum. And Jack Ketchum wrote a bunch of horror novels as well. One of them was called off season. He wrote off season in 1981. It was his first novel. And it was based on the same kind of incident that West Craven used, uh, as subject matter for his well, the Hills have eyes, which is about a crazy cannibal family that goes in, you know, gets, uh, starts terrorizing basically a suburban families traveling. And, uh, then he writes a sequel to that novel. Offspring. This is a sequel to the novel offspring, the woman co-written with lucky McKee and lucky McKee is our director of this film. So this is how all of this ties together. This is a sequel of a sequel, this film centers around the last of a clan of cannibalistic, feral humans running around. Um, and it’s about this woman who is captured by a guy. Well, he decides to more or less forced his family to try to civilized. I mean, right. This is a really interesting movie. I mean, uh, as soon as I started watching it, I was like, Oh, okay. This is a movie with a social message. I think much like may was before I really. Really liked that movie. It was shocking. It had a shocking ending, almost a kind of ambiguous ending as well as I remember. Yeah. But it was very much centered around this woman and basically how she was tormented by people and specially guys and mistreated. And so it’s a very feminist type movie. Am I wrong about that? Craig: Well, menaced by guys, I don’t know, like she was just such an awkward person and like, that’s the thing that I like about MEI it’s much darker than the stuff that I’m usually drawn to. Um, but I felt so much empathy for may. The main character. I felt so bad for her. And of course she was doing terrible things, but. Even. So I just felt that the movie was very sad. Obviously this girl was damaged and had problems, but it ultimately, I was left feeling that the world had let her down. And, and I, I felt bad for the predicament that she found herself. And even though she was doing terrible things, it’s dark and this movie is dark too. There’s also a follow-up movie to the woman called darlin. When I saw the woman the first time, which has been a while ago, I didn’t know that it was a cul in any way to a book, to a movie, nothing. I just thought it was a standalone movie. And I think that it works as a standalone movie and I’ve not seen offspring. It’s kind of hard to find. You can find it, you can rent it on Amazon and on some other platforms, but I haven’t seen it. I’ve watched the trailer and I’ve read some reviews of it. And it looks very much like. A sister movie of the Hills have eyes this movie though. I can see how it is a follow-up to something like that is not like that. It’s, it’s very different. In fact, it’s almost a reversal, you know, whereas in something like apparently offspring, which I haven’t seen, but the Hills have eyes where these wild feral people are preying on, you know, like a suburban family, this flips it. And it’s the suburban family who are preying on this. Woman. Um, and it’s weird. This is a movie that’s been on my personal list for us to do for quite a long time. I think that I’ve mentioned it several times, but it’s never been like, Oh, come on, we have to do it. It’s just like, ah, let’s get around to it eventually. And Andrew requested it last week and it was just a good excuse to finally do it. And more than I was looking forward to rewatching the movie, I was really interested to see what you thought of it because it’s, it’s very dark and nihilistic and that’s not typically your cup Todd: of tea, right. Uh, it’s not really typically by my cup of tea. And I would say that especially lately, you know, I’ve been looking for escapism in my films and when things get so dark and so nihilistic it’s like, you know, the world has already gotten so dark lately that. I don’t really need to revisit that, but that being said, I do enjoy these kinds of movies. If I feel like they have something to say in particular. And the thing about this film now, I hadn’t seen it before this I, this is my first time watching it as well. One thing that I have to say about this movie, I was a little disappointed. Especially considering this in his Uber guar. Right. I really liked Mae. I thought may had some depth. It was weird. The movie was a little strange. The girl was a little strange. Yeah. It was a slow film that really took its time. And it was like a character study. You know, we got to know this girl and we got to see the depth of her oddness. It just felt complete and round and whole, and then it took some really interesting turns and you could see how people interacted with her and how they almost used her in their own ways, which is life, you know, we all kind of use each other. Right. Uh, and, and so it, I, it just really, really enjoyed that movie and I felt that it had a depth and then it had a kind of a. Funky little twist at the end, that was kind of cool and a bit of a shock and, and all of that really worked well for me, the problem that I had with this movie. Now it’s a fine film. Don’t get me wrong. I’m not going to rag on it. But the problem that I have with this movie, especially compared to that is I felt like it was a little hollow, too preachy. I knew what was going on almost from the very beginning, almost from the minute we get introduced to the father character in this named Chris is super sinister and you just kind of know something’s not right here. So there’s no real surprise. And the women in this family, again, from the very beginning spend most of their time and all of their scenes staring off into space, just shy of tears. So you know that they’re troubled and repressed and something’s going on there. And it just, your, your assumption as well, this Chris, guy’s a douche bag and he’s controlling them and it turns out to be right now, the depth of that, you know, gets really messed up to put it mildly. But, but honestly, like my mother, I was already racing to those conclusions. Yeah. Practically from the first few scenes. And so when he captures this woman and he takes her in, I’m like, Oh, I mean this, basically, this is what this is. This guy is treating her just like he treats his family, blah, blah, blah. We’re going to get to see how this plays out. Maybe we’re going to get to learn more, but at the end of the day, there were really no surprises. And what was nice about may I, it’s not fair to compare it to another movie. I mean, these are standalone works of art, but I’m just going to say it anyway, because it’s an easy way to talk about for me, what, what I didn’t like about this movie, what comparing it to may, may like I was kind of on the edge of my seat because this girl was mysterious and I just kind of watched the onion get on peeled, you know, layer by layer. And it was fascinating. And I just had no idea where it was going to go, you know, was she going to come around and, and which was there going to be some epiphany here? Was she going to have, what was her arc going to be like? And then it took me places I didn’t expect. And that was really cathartic. And this movie felt. Not like that. Uh, it, it started out. It was, I understood what, what it was about pretty early on. Um, it took me about all the places I expected it to go more or less. And then, uh, you know, then there was an ending and so it never felt so real to me. I don’t know how to express it. Like, uh, not that they were caricatures, but it was just. Well may was a very slow and dramatic movie. This was a very slow and dramatic movie, but to me it felt really drawn out as a short, this might’ve worked a lot better for me than a movie that was an hour and 45 minutes long. Um, but yeah, that’s it, that’s it in a nutshell. Craig: Okay. I agree with you too. An extent in that I could tell from the very beginning that though this family was presenting this veneer of, you know, perfect suburban nuclear family, you could immediately tell, as you already mentioned that there was something wrong. It’s small town, almost rural, really? And the dad is a big shot lawyer, like in a state lawyer in town and seems to be very well-respected and very well liked. And it opens up at this barbecue where, you know, it seems like a pretty tight knit community, wealthier members of this community, but suburban, nonetheless kind of in the way that they look, but you’re right. Like just something as he presents that. Very charming Southern lawyer persona, but everybody else in the family just seems a little bit off his wife. Who’s played by Angela Bettis who played Mae, who I think must either be a dear friend of lucky McKee or amuse of his and understandably so, because I think that she’s fantastic. She just seems a little bit removed. Like there’s nothing behind her eyes. There’s nothing behind her face. Todd: Craig removed is a very kind way of putting it. She just looks completely spaced out the whole time. Yeah. She’s on the verge of tears at every moment. And I mean, that was just projected a mile away and that’s fine. I mean, maybe this woman is like that, but it didn’t make for a much of a mystery. You know what I’m saying? Craig: Yeah. You can tell immediately that the dynamics are messed up. The older daughter, Peggy played by Lauren Ashley Carter. Very. Lovely young woman. I don’t really know her from anything else. She’s sitting poolside and sh let you know, all of the other teenagers are swimming and having a good time. And she’s, um, you know, not in a bathing suit, she’s kind of quiet and by herself. And then there’s the son, Brian, this was his first film. I believe. I, I didn’t recognize him at all, but even just, I don’t know if it was the way that it was filmed or if the way he was directed. But you could just tell that there was something off about him too. Like he never smiles. He’s constantly kind of just leering everybody. And he sees some boys, children, but these boys are picking on a girl, a young girl who’s smaller than them. And like in the very first. The first second that I saw that I thought, Oh, Brian’s going to intercede to protect this girl. But no, he doesn’t at all. Todd: No, he just looks at her coldly almost from afar, sitting on his basketball. Um, and then just stands up and starts shooting free throws. Like, yeah, it’s very clear yeah. That he has no interest in helping her almost, uh, just a fascination with the fact that she’s being tormented by these guys. Well, Craig: and that’s the thing like when you get right down to the nitty gritty of this movie, I think though, I’m not sure really how successful it is nor am I sure how hard they were going at serious social messaging. But the underlying motifs of this movie are misogyny, patriarchy to the extreme. Um, and, and Brian ends up being a very clear product of. That toxic masculinity and toxic misogyny. Not that there’s an toxic massage anyway. And so there’s one other, there’s a little girl named darlin and, you know, for the most part, she seems like a normal little girl, except for that she’s bratty. And this isn’t out of the ordinary. It’s nothing that you would question in a real life. I don’t think, but it seems pretty clear that she’s not in any way. Motivated by any fear of authority from her mother. Like she talks back to her mom. She, she acts out, you know, little kids do that, but as the movie goes on, you realize that there’s a reason for that because the mother really has no authority. And so it’s just weird from the beginning, they live in a nice house in the country though, you know, something’s off on the surface, pretty normal family. The dad maybes kind of seems like a Dick, but that happens, whatever things get interesting when the dad goes out on an early morning hunt and he S I guess, Oh my gosh, we skipped the beginning and I don’t want to skip the beginning because it’s weird. The first person that we see is the woman. And she’s this wild, dirty feral woman, apparently living in the woods. The thing that’s bizarre to me, And I have no idea if it’s connection to the previous film, she’s like walking in a river and she like kills or injures a wild dog, like in a dinner or something, but then she’s running through the woods and looking just above the camera and the camera work is all very stylized, like almost dreamlike. And then. There’s a baby in like a wolves. Dan, Todd: I got the, I got it. The impression she was having a dream here. You’re right. It’s super stylized. It’s very dreamlike. It’s actually unlike any of the rest of the film, which is almost the complete opposite close cuts and these fades and these cross fades and these, uh, super impositions of different, you know, footage of her running through the woods and sleeping and her running through the woods and sleeping some more and like killing the something and sleeping. And then you’re right. Like a baby that’s laying down in a nest of sorts. That’s being kind of trolled by wolves. And I imagined what this was, was like her origin story. I kind of thought it would, this was, Oh, this is like a baby for one reason or another was raised by wolves because at one point the baby, like the Wolf kind of. It kind of looks like it’s feeding something to the baby and then the baby kind of, kind of peels away. And the baby’s mouth is bloody and this hand is bloody and it’s kind of smiling and all that, that, that was my impression of what this meant anyway. Craig: See, and I think that there’s also an underlying motif of, I don’t know if this is the right word, but maternity or motherhood, you think maybe she Todd: was pregnant Craig: or had been because she’s also injured in her abdomen? Um, I don’t know what I do know. Okay. So the, the dad sees this woman while he’s hunting. He goes back home and he forces his family. In his absence, he doesn’t help at all. He forces them to clean out the seller and he doesn’t tell them why. It’s basically just like, you’ll see. And then the next day he goes back out into the woods. And as she’s emerging from her little din, this woman, he throws a net on her, encaptures, her, knocks her out with the butt of his rifle, drags her back home and puts her in the cellar and strings her up on this like pulley and lever system in the cellar. Todd: Craig, real quick. Let’s talk about when he’s out hunting and he sees her, he’s not almost in these, like almost not the least bit shocked that there is a woman running wild back there. And also he’s like scoping her out, literally through the scope of his rifle. Like you might Lear at somebody through binoculars like that, except for in his, in his case, it’s through the scope of the Craig: rifle. It’s the male gaze. Yeah. Yeah. It’s the male gaze through the, the site of a rifle, the litter she’s bathing. Todd: Yeah. The editing is kind of interesting here too, because he sees her bathing and it really Lears on her breasts and her shirt is flapped open or whatever. And then she kind of tucks her breasts in and starts to walk away. But then there’s like a cut. Her breasts are exposed again, but then they’re not, and then they’re exposed again. They’re not, and you get the sense that, Oh, like, you know, this is what he’s leering at. This is his imagination. It’s kind of mixing the Craig: two. Right. I, I agree the sound design adds to that too, because there’s a lot of music in this movie. Um, and the second that he spots her, like this loud music comes in, it makes it very evident that he’s immediately aroused by this. Um, I mean, you can tell what his thoughts and intentions are. Immediately. And Todd: for me, it’s a little too on the nose, man. You know, like he’s highlighting this woman scoping around through the scope of his rival. That music just kind of was the cherry on the top, you know, it’s just like, okay, I get it. Craig: And I understand what you’re saying, but I almost feel like that was purposeful. I feel like this movie, there’s something about it that, that removes it just enough from reality, right? It almost seems like a fantasy or a really, really dark fairy tale or terrible, uh, Todd: of sorts. That’s a really good point, Craig, what you just said, like the music and the sound design is off-kilter enough and even the acting, and I don’t know if it was just because the acting in some points wasn’t so great. Or if it was just intentionally that way. You know what I mean? Like there were parts in which I felt it, it came across so false that I thought in a sense, he’s just trying to create an unreal quality to this movie. Like we’re going to deal with unreal subject matter. So let’s just kind of fantasize the whole thing and make the whole thing, the sort of, kind of male fantasy gone awry or whatever. Maybe it’s smarter than I’m giving it credit for, but it still came across in the viewing of it as like a little too on the nose. Let Craig: me just put it that way. Yeah. And I, I agree with you and I get that. I E the dad brings this woman back, ties her up, and then he just introduces the family to her. Well, before he introduces the family to her, he’s kind of leering at her and touching her. She’s still unconscious, but as he’s like, Fingering her face, she wakes up and she bites his ring finger off, like at least, you know, up to the second knuckle. And it’s very satisfying, frankly, because he’s so smarmy and gross. And the woman who plays the woman, Pollyanna McIntosh, she’s very good. She’s very good at playing this very feral and very animalistic. She has these very unnatural, inhuman grunts, uh, that she, that she communicates with. It seems like she’s verbal, but she doesn’t speak English. Um, and I read. That the movie evolved as things do in creation. I guess in the first film, these feral people communicated with one another with language and it was subtitled, but in this, we don’t get any subtitles, but I did read that after she bites his finger off and he’s all pissed off and he comes back into punish her. He fires a rifle right next to her ear. Basically deafening her in one ear and, and threatening her to behave because he wants to introduce the family. He brings the family in the sun seems to fascinated because here’s this, you know, wild half naked woman. It it’s gross. Like, uh, that, that, that little boy who played this role, I give him. Props because he plays it so well, but I’m like, Ooh, like he’s just so creepy. And the little girl darlin, she’s more fascinated than anything that he’s presenting this woman as though she’s a pet, like as though she’s some wild animal that they have captured and, and plan to domesticate. Um, and it’s a parent that the mother bell and the oldest daughter, Peggy, they are appalled, but have no idea what to do because they have no power. And there are several scenes where the woman locks eyes with either of these women, either bell or Peggy and the direction, and the cinematography does a good job. I think of making it evident that she is trying to communicate with them through eye contact alone. She is, you know, they are communicating, she’s pleading with them. They have feelings of compassion. Seemingly I read that, uh, In one of the earlier incarnations of the script, she was supposed to speak to them in Gaelic, which I guess her tribe spoken, I don’t know. And she was supposed to say something like, will you help me mothers? Because obviously the, the mom is a mom, but something that becomes increasingly evident as the movie goes on is that Peggy is pregnant too. Uh, it’s so gross. And there are moments when it really seems like they are connecting with her and that they might want to help her. But. They’re so beaten down or, or in fear of consequences from the dad that there’s, they’re, they’re powerless. They’re helpless. Todd: Yeah. Well, I mean, there is that bit where they go into clean her off. So the dad has got them. I mean, first of all, I’ve got to hit this. Like she bites his finger off. He turns around to her and anger. And I, I mean, obviously it’s also symbolic, right? Like a bites off his ring finger, his wedding ring falls around all this stuff. And then he turns around and says to her that is not civilized behavior, that he, you know, he has strapped up downstairs and it’s like, you have clearly a very ironic line, but also I kind of rolled my eyes at how ironic the line was. Craig: And that’s the thing right here. There’s good dialogue. Um, in this part where he entered when he introduces the family to her too, because he. Presents it in such a nonchalant way. Like that’s part of the reason why, you know, that this family is, I’m sorry, you’re going to have to either believe me or pardon my language, because I can’t just help from saying that this family fucked up and this guy is up. Yeah. Just the way that he talks to his family. Like he, he presents her and then the wife’s like, what is this? And. He says, we’re going to have to share in the responsibility for caring for her. Um, we’re going to train her and civilize her. This is our project and it’s a secret one. And he also says, which becomes significant later in the most twisted of ways. It’s the same as taking care of the dogs. Um, and this entire movie is scored by a background of dogs constantly. And there’s constantly, yeah. He referenced to him reminding either of the older children to go care for the dogs. Like every five minutes. There’s some reference to the dogs, Todd: go feed the dogs or something like that. Yeah. Craig: There’s a payoff in the end, but. Just the way that he approaches it with the family is so messed up. Todd: I mean, if you see it as like a fairy tale and so you take a kind of aloof, uh, look at it and don’t try to see this as real, but all as sort of allegory and whatever, that’s fine. You know, then, like I said, these sort of ironic lines it’s okay. But I mean, at that point where they’re staring at this woman, it is so obvious that the women are completely terrified and speechless. He stands there just talking very matter of factly about this, cause this is our project. And then as the women walk away, Brian, the boy with kind of a leering look on his face, turns to his dad and says, do we get to keep her. Like she’s some pet, I’m sorry, Craig. But for me, I was just like, Oh God, this is so it’s too much really, you know, it’s too obvious. It’s, it’s unreal. It’s over, it’s over the top and unreal, which is fine. Okay. Now that I’ve watched a movie, it’s fine that we’ve got, you know, that this is what it’s going to be. All right. So anyway, so, you know, peg peg is scared of her dad and can’t concentrate. Dad goes in and has a weird conversation with peg where she’s staring off into the distance. And I mean, she’s like she never makes eye contact with him whatsoever. And then the mom comes in in the background and shadow to overhear it. And then the mom confronts the dad and says, look, uh, I think this may, maybe we shouldn’t be doing this. And he just slaps her and walks away, which. Okay. Yeah, that’s kinda what I expected. It’s it’s shocking, but yeah, that’s what Craig: it just goes to bed. It is shocking because Chris isn’t, he, you know, like a superhero type guy, but he’s tall and a lean and Angela bedus is a small woman meek in her appearance, or she can make herself appear that way in her roles. And she just very softly says, are you sure we should be doing this or something like that? And just immediate it’s so fast. He just slaps the shit out of her. Um, and she just stands there and takes it. And he does it in the same way that one might. Give their partner, a kiss on the cheek and walk away. Like it’s just so casual gets ready for bed and goes to bed and says, come on, babe, time for bed. And she just goes and sits on the corner of the bed. It just establishes the dynamic of this relationship so easily. You know, she, I don’t know the word for it. I mean, she’s completely submissive to him, not out of character necessarily, but out of, she’s been beaten into submission, like a dog she’s been beaten into submission. It’s messed up and it’s sad, but I, I feel you, when you say that, it’s just so over the top that it’s almost hard to believe. It is hard to believe. It doesn’t feel like reality. It feels like dark fantasy. It makes no sense. That anybody would just go along with this stuff. They are so on their own little Island in their house that the outside world barely even affects them. The only kind of thing that we see from that from the outside world is that one of Peggy’s teachers clearly can tell that something is going on with her. Uh, there’s this young, pretty lesbian teacher named miss Raton, um, who is concerned about Peggy because. She’s acting differently than she had previously. She’s dressing modestly and in baggy clothes, she’s sick in the morning. It’s perfectly apparent what’s going on, she’s pregnant and it doesn’t take much, you know, you don’t have to even put two and two together to realize that she’s pregnant by her fathers, by her father. Todd: Cause there’s nobody else. There’s nobody Craig: else eventually that comes to them to a head at, at the end of the movie. So it’s not directly stated at any point early in the movie, but it’s just so obvious and that interaction where he’s talking to Peggy on her bed that could have been. Perfectly innocent, but you can just tell by how uncomfortable she is in his presence. Like you said, she won’t even make eye contact with them. The mother is watching covertly from the shadows, you know exactly what’s going on. You know, everybody knows what’s going on. The mother knows what’s going on. It’s sick and twisted, but sad too. I’m like, it’s like may in that way that I feel bad for these women, but you know, it’s a movie. So what are you going to do? Todd: Well, it’s funny, you said lesbian teacher now, where did you get that idea from? Well, Craig: one thing, um, the first time that she kind of checks in on Peggy Peggy’s daydreaming and when the teacher checks in on her, Peggy just can I be excused? And she goes to the bathroom, but she had crumpled up a piece of paper and the teacher opens it and it’s an illustration of her. And it says, miss Dyke, then later. There’s a scene where the teacher is considering calling the family to express her concern. And she’s talking to what appears to be a coworker, but I’m pretty sure she calls her, babe. And then I also read that in early drafts of the film, there was. And implied or maybe explicit sexual relationship between the teacher and Peggy that does not play into the movie at all. It’s it’s not, it’s absent from the movie, but in an early draft, it was there. Todd: Yeah. The, the movie really sexualizes the teacher early on too. I mean, you know, our introduction to her is kind of a long. Draw up her legs and skirt and stuff. She turned around and talks to the class, which, you know, so the gaze is definitely on the women. He’s definitely focusing us on the women. I, yeah, the Mrs. Dyke thing is there. I didn’t really think about it and it’s not important. It’s not important, you know, as long as she’s not having a sexual relationship with these kids with this kid is as apparently wasn’t an earlier script, which was, would have been even more bizarre and right. I mean, my God, thank goodness that was on the cutting room floor because the movie didn’t need that complication. It Craig: did it didn’t. But at the same time, I think that it also would have made the whole situation even more bizarre because if Peggy were queer, it would’ve made even less sense that she was pregnant and it would have made, you know, there would have been no doubt, you know, like. There’s really no doubt here. Anyway, there’s no other boys and they, they make a point of that. You know, she’s not seeing anybody, in fact, at the pool party in the beginning, a cute boy who apparently she had at one point, been interested in, shows interest in her and she just rejects him basically outright. Um, so there isn’t anybody else. Uh, it’s gotta be the dad and it’s gross. I, I feel like, I don’t know. I know how to proceed with this because I feel like it’s just beats, like, you know, like there are these weird plot beats that you, you mentioned that they bathed her. Yeah, well they, first of all, they try to bathe her with. Like boiling water off the stove, which the mom bell kind of tries to object to, but the dad shuts her down as he always does when that doesn’t work, because she’s so dirty, he fucking power washes her. Like this movie is so twisted. Todd: That is torture, torture. He just does it. So nonchalantly like is washing the car and Peggy screaming in the background. Eventually she’s like, stop dead, stop, whatever. And the woman just kind of looks up during that bathing scene. That’s when the woman and the mother first lock eyes. And it’s, it’s clear as day that they’re communicating because this is a long drawn out deal wall. Dad is there washing, trying to wash the woman. Mother has picked up a board from the floor and is slowly approaching and it’s their eyes and it’s the board and it’s the rise and it’s the dad distracted. And you kind of think that maybe. Mom is going to whack him over the head with the board end to this. But instead she points out, up in the corner, Hey, I’m one of the islets or whatever that he had screwed into one of the overhanging boards. It looks like it’s going to break free, which would be a big problem. And he’s like, Oh, thank you very much for pointing that out. And she’s holding the board out and he says, this will be a good start at fixing that. And so then he turns away and then there’s another look between the two and they go away. Craig: But that other look that, that second look like, yes, it seemed like they were communicating. It seemed like maybe a bell was going to do the right thing and help her. But then when she doesn’t, they lock eyes again. And I just happened my notes that the woman’s look is like, thanks for nothing, Todd: bro. And it’s an, it’s an interesting scene, right? I’m not sure what quite to make of it. I guess what we’re trying to learn here is that the wife is far gone. She’s gonna, she’s gonna be the dad, you know, the husband’s, um, lapdog through the whole thing, and she’s not going to do anything to save this woman. This woman’s only chance at redemption comes from Peggy, because Brian is get is, is right alongside dad and getting sick and twisted, you know, feelings along with it. The Craig: dad gets up in the middle of the night, like he’s being sneaky, like the bell totally as awake and knows that he’s leaving and knows what he’s doing. Todd: Yeah. And like he’s done it before many, a times probably with her, her daughter. Yeah. Yeah. Craig: Yes. And Brian is awake too. Brian follows his dad out there and watches, his dad raped this woman. Like it’s so twisted. It’s disgusting. Uh, I mean, and it is the thing is though. The content is so gross, but it’s really not super graphic. No, Todd: surprisingly it’s Craig: suggested Everett. I mean, it’s more than suggested, you know exactly what’s happening, but it’s not graphic. Um, and it’s depiction, but it doesn’t have to be it’s disturbing enough. Todd: But again, my God, Craig, this is just, it’s like an ABC afterschool special, but like none I ever watched, but you know what I’m saying? The dad does the thing. And then the it’s an example to the son and the son literally watches it. And then what happens the next day? The sun goes down to reenact what dad? Craig: Well, but th the next day, first of all, we see them in the morning and we see Chris going off to work and he says to Brian, so you got have day to day. Yeah. And. Brian’s like, yeah. And he’s like, well, what are you gonna do with all your spare time? And Brian’s like, I don’t know. And Chris says to him, don’t do anything. I wouldn’t do so grouse. Todd: So it’s like, okay dad. And he goes down and he basically tries to rape her just like his dad did Craig: even worse because unbeknownst to him, Peggy is home. But Brian is even more twisted than his dad because he doesn’t just molest this woman, which he does, but he tortures her Todd: pliers, Craig: dabs her with needle-nose pliers and tears. One of her nipples off again, we don’t see it happen. We just hear the woman’s screams. And because Peggy has stayed home sick. She runs out and stops him. The aftermath of this. I was talking to my partner last night about the movie, and I said, you would have hated this movie. I’m so glad I didn’t make you watch it. And I said the movie again, pardon my language. You know, I think about those people who contact us and are like, thank you for not swearing all the time. But I swear sometimes, sorry. I said to him, this movie is set up from the beginning. And then in the last 25 minutes, it’s like, so messed up, like from, from the point that you see the mom and Peggy have Brian sat down at the table, waiting for the dad to come home so that they can tell the dad what he’s done from that moment on it is just. A nightmare. It was insane. Todd: It’s too much. I mean, dad comes home and what does he literally say when they tell him what happened? Oh, he’s a boy. Adolescents have urges. Boys will be boys. I mean, it’s a, nobody got hurt. Nobody got hurt. It’s a, it’s a litany of every single thing that, you know, the me too movement has said, you know, this is bullshit that guys tell their, their sons. Uh, and this is why we have such rampant misogyny in American culture. You know, again, I’m sorry. Ma’am, it’s just way too much on the nose for me that I was just disconnected from it. It was screwed up. It was after, but I couldn’t feel it was real enough that I felt that emotional. Connection that it wasn’t just a play happening, a morality play happening in front of you. So maybe that’s a good thing. Cause I mean, you know, if it had felt real, I would have needed to take a cold shower after this and felt damaged myself. Craig: Well, that’s the thing, like I feel like as an English teacher, I should be able to come up with a better word, but it’s almost like satire, like it’s exaggerated to an extreme to make a point. And I get, I get the point that they’re trying to make. I get the point about patriarchy and misogyny. And it’s specifically in this part, how that is passed down through generations. Um, and, and, you know, Brian has learned this by watching his father. And it’s been allowed to continue to some extent, and I’m not women blaming here at all, but to some extent, because the women have allowed it to continue at this point now because of that, that gets into, but that gets into a whole issue of power dynamic, too. It’s not so much they’re allowing it. It’s that, you know, what choice do they have? They have been brow beaten into accepting it, which is why I love this next part, because once he says all those things, bell finally for the first time in the whole movie shows some humanity, she’s an actual person and she blows up and please, you know, Angela Bettis, I really, really think is a very talented actress and. The shift here. It’s almost like the veneer breaks. Like she just can’t do it anymore. And that’s what she says. I can’t do this anymore. You can’t do this. And little bombshells are dropped here too. She’s like, how, how long do you think you can get away with this? She says, even what’s going on out there with the dogs would be enough to put you in prison. And when I first heard that, I’m like, well, yeah, it doesn’t seem like they’ve been taking very good care of them. You know, maybe that you can get, you know, some animal abuse, serious a thing. Um, yeah. When she says that and, and really she loses it. She, she is really, you know, going in on him. He looks at her and I did not. The first time I watched this, I did not put this together at all. I don’t even think that I knew what he was saying, that he shouts in her face and uptown Mia. That is your shame. You remember that? Did you catch that? And did you know what he was talking about? Well, first of Todd: all, I didn’t know what that was until I looked it up later. So no, and no, I didn’t catch that. I actually had that all went right by Craig: me. I mean, it’s, it’s, uh, I guess we can save it for the big reveal. Something is going on out there with the dogs that we don’t know about. And when he throws that in her face, she says, I never condoned what you did. And he says, yeah, well, what are you going to do about it? And that. Is maybe one of the more troubling lines for me, because I feel like that is so the position that abused women find themselves in, right? They feel so powerless. Um, and these men, and it’s not just men, any abusive person, they convince people that, what are you going to do? You have no power. I have all the power. What are you going to do? And she says, I’m gonna, I’m gonna leave you. And she says, I’m taking the girls with me. You can keep your little rapist son for yourself. You seem to be teaching him, you know, just right. Um, but you’re not going to hurt me or my girls anymore. And when she says that he. Beats the shit out of her. Yeah. Not like Todd: horrible. Almost comically. Really. The teacher rings the doorbell and the girl goes to the tour while dad and the son are picking up mommy, he’s like, Oh, mom’s going to be fine. Go get her a wet rag, you know, whatever. And help me here at the same time, the, the girl answers the door, you know, like, like they’ve had to do this a thousand times before. And the son of the dad are very casually, you know, not at all concerned that someone’s coming to the door, setting mom up at the table and, uh, And the teacher comes over and she, you know, she’s here to visit, to talk to the parents about what she thinks, you know, what she’s discovered about their daughter possibly being pregnant. And the dad walks right over and says, Hey, how are you doing? Oh yeah, you’re the, you’re the geometry teacher. Great. Come on in, have a seat, sits her down right there in the room. And then, you know, she has a clear view of mom’s sitting at the table unconscious and he’s just kind of looks over and says, Oh, you know, she’s not feeling well, taken a power nap. And then he says a line that I think was, was clever and significant as the teacher’s like, well, I would like to speak with you and your wife alone. And he says, we have no secrets in this family. Yep. And I’m like, yeah, well, truer words were never, were never spoken yeah. By him. But he’s like, yeah, you’d bring my, you can talk. Why don’t, if it’s about my daughter, why don’t we bring peg in here? And she sits down and he’s like, and then. The Brian, come on in. You, you need to hear this too. You know, she lays out her idea that peg is pregnant and he goes ballistic on her quickly. He confronts her and says, what are you suggesting? She doesn’t have a boyfriend if she had a boyfriend, I would know. So are you suggesting it was Brian, like that’s out of left field, right? For the tension? No, of course. What the hell are you talking about? It’s like, and are you, you must be suggesting it’s me. And she’s looking at him like, he’s crazy. And he’s like, well, you certainly are. And I’ll have nothing of it. And then he whacks her out and that. This was the first surprise of the movie for me. So he knocks her out against the door and tells Brian, go get a rope. And this is what the camera, where it gets kind of interesting. Like they go for that whole Bob Clark, like wide angle camera and these closeup shots where everything’s a little chaotic and a little more dreamlike, just because it’s a little more distorted. But, uh, he drags her out with Brian’s help outside ties her by the rope to the fence. And the same time peg is running after him screaming. You can’t do this, you can’t. And he she’s Craig: my teacher, she’s my Todd: friend. Yeah. And he, for the first time, just once again, then just grabs her by the neck and the camera’s spinning around him. And he just lays into her. And one, one thing that he says, you’re all the same women are all the same. You and your sisters. Sisters and I did not escape me Craig: only. Good. You’re only good for one thing and half the time, you’re not even any good at that. so nasty. I mean, because he’s, he’s clearly speaking to her specifically, not just about women in general, but to her specifically, uh, it’s so nasty. Well, they, he and Brian drag, this poor woman who was just trying to help and do the right thing, um, drag her in and throw her in the dog. Pin. And these are German shepherds, unhappy German shepherds. And so that’s very scary that she backs away towards one corner of the kennel. And the dad’s like, that’s a bad idea. And there’s like a little dog Hutch in the back and out of this dog Hutch bursts, this wild feral girl disfigured with a face deformity. That, that thing that he had said that, uh, anophthalmia what that is, is a congenital disorder where a child is born congenitally without one eye, or there’s another name for it. They can be born without. Both eyes. Um, but what’s obviously happened here is that there had been another daughter who had born been born with a birth defect. And so they had just made her one of the dogs and that was just part of their everyday life. So every time he was telling them to go feed the dogs, they were also really feeding this. Sister, feral sister that they had. And it’s so twisted because you realize that from the beginning, his family was shocked that you would bring in this feral woman, but he’s done it before. They’ve been living their life like this for ever. Yeah. Oh, it’s so dark and twisted and disgusting. And the feral sister kills the teacher while that is happening. Peggy runs. And I don’t know what inspires her to do this, but I think that it was the smart thing to do. She runs and she releases. The woman. Todd: Yeah. This is what you’re waiting for. And you’re hoping that this moment is going to come and it comes and it’s entirely satisfying. Yeah. Yep. She picks up a big piece of metal. It’s like a knife or like, Craig: um, it’s like a mower blade. Todd: Yeah, it is. And the first thing she does is go after Brian, Brian, and the data been watching the teacher get eaten with a sick fascination. Like this has happened before. Almost really. Here’s the thing, like, there’s been a kind of motif through this movie where the mother keeps baking these cookies. They’re like gingerbread men with the little girl. And, uh, there’s a T you know, when Brian gets the gingerbread man, he chops it in half with his hand before he eats it. It’s just supposed to show that he’s. Such a brutal guy or something. And this, he does this like three or four times in the movie and I’m thinking, okay, this is going to come to fruition at some point. And it does because the woman, uh, slices twice across this Brian’s midsection. It cuts them in half. Like one of those gingerbread cookies, just Craig: satisfying because he’s so disgusting, but eat. But even before that, as soon as the woman emerges, bell has run out, I guess, to see what’s happening. I mean, she’s terribly injured. Like it seems like maybe her ribs are broken or maybe even her back is broken. I mean, she’s, she’s severely injured, but she makes her way out there to the cellar. And she opens the door and she sees the woman coming up the stairs and she looks at Peggy and says, what have you done? And the woman picks her up, throws her on the ground and kills her by basically eating her face off. And then she picks her up above her head and throws her life. 10 feet away. I mean, this woman it’s ridiculous. She has superhuman strength. This is all very over the top violence. I have to say that I kind of felt bad that bill got killed. Sure. I’m a victim too. She was a victim too. Now I was, again, I was talking to my partner about it and I said, you know, when it comes right down to it, she allowed this to happen for a very long time. But again, I don’t want to get into victim blaming. She too was a victim, but anyway, she gets it. Then Brian gets it. Then finally the dad, Todd: no, in a way, the movie is kind of victim blaming. I mean, it’s saying that even though this woman was a victim, because she didn’t anyway, get the wherewithal to stop it. Especially at that moment where she had the opportunity, she is just as culpable, which. Uh, I don’t know. I have a little bit of a problem with that. I mean, you can kind of just, you can kind of say, well, yeah, sure. That’s true. But on the other hand, I think we understand the psychological aspects of this. It’s a little more complicated than that. And so I know that we’re supposed to feel happy that she got it too, because she was an enabler here. But yeah, once again, I think it really oversimplifies things and does a bit of a disservice to the point the movie is trying Craig: to make well. And then, you know, like I said, the dad gets it too. He, he tries to grab a weapon or something, but the woman comes up to him and just. Punches into his abdomen. Like it’s, it’s, that’s the thing like it’s, it’s not realistic. And I think again, I’ve said it already, but I feel like that’s intentional. It’s supposed to be a little bit fantastical, I think for just to drill home the message and she, you know, rips his guts out and then, you know, shoves her arm clear up into his cavity and pulls his heart out and takes a bite out of it while he’s still alive. And then the end is very bizarre. Uh, but I like it. She comes out, um, Peggy runs and grabs darlin, and it seems like she’s gonna try to. Get them away. Meanwhile, the woman is outside and the dog girl, I feel bad even saying that about her, but you know, she is a human being, but that’s well, she does. Her name is socket. Isn’t that nice? Todd: Oh, that’s horrible. Craig: Right. The dog girl comes out and the woman is like, seems confused a little bit by her, but she just treats her like a dog and kind of just when the girl growls at her, she smacks her and kind of into submission. So then this girl just kind of follows the woman around like a dog, like a dog. The woman walks up to the house and, um, darlin runs out and hands her a bottle of water, which she drinks. And then she. Has bloody hands from the dad. She, she has the little girl lick her fingers that it’s almost like the little girl’s like, Hmm. Yeah, that was good. And, and so the woman takes darlin by the hand and just starts walking away. So it’s her walking hand in hand with darlin followed by their family dog girl. And I had forgotten this, but in the very last seconds, it appears that Peggy starts to follow them too, as though they are all going to go off and be this new family, which is interesting and weird. But you know, now they’re like this tribe of. Women, um, which is kind of interesting that, like I said, there is a follow-up to this movie called darlin. Peggy appears in it, but I don’t remember her being in it very much. I don’t recall dog girl being in it at all. You watched it. I did watch it. Um, it, it takes place, I would guess maybe 10 years later when darlin is a teenager and somehow Darlan gets discovered and taken away to a Catholic boarding school where they attempt to civilize her. But the secondary story is that the woman is on a mission to retrieve her. Quote, unquote daughter, frankly, though I enjoyed the movie. It got into some really silly territory. It’s interesting. If you liked this movie, I would say, go ahead and watch it, but it gets even kind of more over the top. I mean, the woman ends up with a gun in the end. She’s like, I don’t know. It’s kind of silly. Okay. This movie overall, to me, it’s just, I can’t say that I enjoyed it cause it’s so dark and twisted. Like it leaves you unsettled and almost feeling sick to your stomach, but. I think that it’s interesting. And I think that lucky McKee is an interesting director. He makes interesting thought provoking movies, you know, maybe not a date movie, you know, if you’re into horror and if you’re willing to, if you’re prepared for some disturbing material, that’s at least going to get you kind of thinking, I think it’s worth the shot and it’s well-made Oh, that’s true. The acting is a little over the top. Everything’s a little over the top. The cinematography is stylized, but I think it’s very competently made. Um, it’s very bizarre, you know, it’s very difficult to put into, you know, a category, but, uh, I don’t know, overall, I would recommend it to horror fans, but you, you kind of need to know you’re getting into something very different here. Todd: Yeah. And I would take maybe a couple steps back from, from your position on this. I get it. I think it plays maybe better as a fairy tale. And maybe if you look at it through that lens, I would maybe look a little nicer on the movie. I just feel like this type of subject matter, which. Maybe now, I mean, the movies, why did he came out in 2011? And so some time has passed since then. And now this me too thing is it’s not a thing it’s always been there, but you know, that this kind of realization that we have nowadays, uh, we need to very well, much recognized that this thing happens. I mean, this stuff we all should know has been happening, misogyny abuse, that kind of thing, obviously, but it’s more front and center now probably than it was in 2011. And so I think nowadays we’re having more sophisticated conversations about it. And so, so maybe when you watch it moving nowadays, it seems a little too simplistic. It seems a little too over the top. And, uh, it’s maybe a little outdated in that way, perhaps. That’s why I kind of groaned through the whole film. I felt like a, this subject matter deserves something a little more nuanced. Than what we got and that’s fine. I mean, look, this is horror. We do a horror podcast to horror is usually not very nuanced, but the reason I was comparing this to may is because may was a very nuanced film by the same director. And I, I liked that. And again, subject matter, you know, the kind of plight of women in today’s society, they both share that as well. I just felt like, whereas I thought that may was a very nuanced and interesting and intriguing look at it, even though it also was fantastical. This movie was a little too fantastical to me. It may be if it had dipped a little bit more into the realm of obvious fantasy, maybe if there were a little more magical realism in there, kind of like there wasn’t may, you know, Craig: I I’m glad that you said that because I almost forgot. Did you watch the post credit scene? Todd: There was a post credit scene. How many about it? No, I didn’t know. Craig: And it’s, it’s crazy. It’s it’s darlin like on a paper boat, on a paper. See traveling to this paper Island. Yes. And it’s, it’s all, it’s very stylized, almost like puppet theater. The only realistic thing is the young girl. Who’s the actress. And she ends up on like this tribal Island and like communicates with this. There’s no dialogue, but like communicates with this weird papier-mache tribal God or something. Yeah. And then that’s it. And it’s just over, but just like that fantastical moment at the end of may, where it kind of seems like maybe the corpse is coming to life. This is kind of a little fantastical cap on this movie too. I had never seen it either. I just happened to read somewhere that it was there. And so I went back and looked at it and I, it doesn’t even seem connected to the plot. Um, but it’s weird. Oh boy. Anyway, so yeah, there you go. Todd: There’s the woman for, you know, woman. Well, thank you again for listening to another episode. If you enjoyed it, please share it with a friend. You can find us online, just Google, two guys, and a chainsaw podcast. Find our Facebook page, find our homepage, leave us a comment there. Let us know what you thought of this film and our review of it. As well as leave suggestions for films we should do in the future. Like Andrew, thank you again, Andrew, for this recommendation, we had a blast chatting about it and watching it. Until next time. I’m Todd. Craig: And I’m Craig. Todd: With Two Guys and a Chainsaw. The post The Woman appeared first on 2 Guys & A Chainsaw.
62 minutes | 2 months ago
This one takes us waaaay back to our childhood. But does anyone ELSE remember it? It's hard to believe this swashbuckling tale of intrigue, political thriller, horror and sci-fi seems to have been lost to time, especially considering it stars a young Dennis Quaid, Kate Capshaw, Max Von Sydow, and Christopher Plummer - to whom we are paying tribute this week. Listen in to see if this rings any bells. Expand to read episode transcript Automatic Transcript Dreamscape (1984) Episode #251, 2 Guys and a Chainsaw Todd: Hello and welcome to another episode of Two Guys and a Chainsaw. I’m Todd and I’m Craig. Well, this week, we’re back after a bit of an absence. Thank you all so much for your patience. I had some things to do, and I was out of town for a couple of weeks. And so here we are. Back again, doing a tribute episode for another actor who has died recently, the late and great Christopher Plummer. My goodness, this man very recognizable has had a long and illustrious career in Hollywood, Canadian actor born in. I believe born in Toronto, grew up in Quebec and just started off right out at the gate. I read that he got interested in acting in high school and went on from there. Studied, never went to university, which was something that he regretted the rest of his life, apparently. But, uh, I don’t know if you can have too many regrets about this life. He’s well-known for the sound of music playing, um, captain Von Trapp in that one. Which ironically is a role that he didn’t care for too much. Uh, he just felt it was very one note and, uh, he didn’t really like it. He didn’t feel he had much to contribute to it. I think he never even referred to that movie by its full name. Whenever he talked about it, he just thought it was sappy and, and, uh, sentimental stuff. Although he enjoyed working with Julie Andrews and I think it later on in life, he kinda came around and recognized it for what it was and said that he was honored to be involved in that, in that movie, which when it was released, I think it gone with the wind out as the most successful film of all time at that time. Yeah. And I think it held that position for quite a while. So yeah. I mean, undoubtedly. Made him even more famous than he already was, but he had already had a long career, uh, in, in television start out television and like move straight into movies. And, uh, was one of those actors who could kind of go between stage and film and television quite successfully, 217 credits to his name on INDB as an actor. And I think the last film that he did was knives out if I’m not mistaken, which was great, Craig: at least. Yeah, I really enjoyed it. And I liked him minute. I, uh, I read that he started on stage and the, um, move to screen was actually kind of a struggle for him. There is I haven’t, I I’ve done next to no on camera work, anything I’ve done has been on stage, but I know that there is a distinct difference between performing on stage and performing for it. Camera. I mean, they’re two totally different things. And I guess apparently a little early in his career, he kind of struggled with that, but obviously eventually it’s something that he overcame and he was, well-recognized all kinds of awards. Tony’s Emmy’s just right. yeah. Uh, very well, well established and respected actor. I mean, in my view, very much a man’s man, you know, tall, good looking stern, you know, commanding presence that carried throughout all of the roles that I’ve. Seen him in, uh, which is quite a few because he works a lot. Todd: Yeah. Like every year he’s has two or three projects coming out. It seems like it’s crazy up to the, yeah. A Craig: very illustrious career. So, you know, it’s, it’s sad that he’s gone, but, uh, he had a very full life, so, and we can just kind of celebrate. His work. Well, Todd: I have to recommend before we dive into this week’s movie, which is dreamscape, which came out in 1984, I have to recommend that if you have not seen murder by decree, Oh God, this is a fantastic movie. And we’ve done a couple of Bob Clark’s movies on here. And I think I’ve even referenced a murder by decree once or twice, just because I love that film so much directed by Bob Clark and starring Christopher Plummer as Sherlock Holmes. If you’re into Sherlock Holmes and who isn’t, you’ve got to give that movie a look. It is fantastic. It’s just one of the best Sherlock Holmes movies out there. And fun fact, he is, I think the second cousin to British actor, Nigel Bruce, which if you’re into Sherlock Holmes, like I am, you know, Nigel Bruce played a Watson in the long running radio series, which sounds so nerdy when I say this, but I have like. Hundreds of these episodes on MP3. And I listened to them. I used to fall asleep to them, listening to them, uh, going to bed. I just, nothing like those old Sherlock Holmes radio shows and Nigel Bruce was a great Watson in those. But yeah. Anyway, coming back to Christopher Plummer and this week’s episode dreamscape from 1984, also starring a very young and fresh Dennis Quaid, which was a joy to see on the screen being such a. Cocky jerky sort of, but also lovable guy. Okay. In the title role for me, the movie does bring back memories because this was a film that I remember very distinctly from childhood. We must have either taped it off a TV or taped it off of a rental tape or something because my sisters and I watched this quite a bit and I was really anxious to see if it lived up to my memories because I hadn’t seen it since my childhood. It’s surprisingly not a well remembered movie. I think people don’t talk much about it and going into this, I was a little concerned like how data would be, or maybe my memories didn’t really hold up as well. It’s an interesting film. I would say it spans a number of genres, horror being one of them. It’s like a Saifai movie. It’s a horror movie. It’s like a political thriller. There’s some romance in there. I mean, it’s. Got a little bit of everything. It’s almost like I’m trying to be a little bit more of like a scifi, Indiana Jones thing. You know, where the adventures happen in the dreams. I don’t know that I thought about that because his character struck me as a young Harrison Ford ish type thing. And this movie came out in 1984. Uh, the same year, I believe Indiana Jones and the temple of doom came out and both films also CoStar the absolutely Kate Capshaw. I know. Right. Craig: I think all of us were in love with her when we were kids. I mean, from, I don’t think that this had the widespread appeal of temple of doom, but hardcore Indiana Jones fans kind of viewed temple of doom as one of the redheaded stepchildren of the franchise. Like I think that it was the bastard child before that stupid alien one came out. Oh Todd: God . Craig: But temple of doom was always my favorite. I just thought that it was so fun. Fun and exciting and funny. And she was just absolutely great in that movie. I loved her in that movie. She was also in space camp, which is another great movie. She was married to Steven Spielberg there for Todd: awhile. It is. She’s not anymore. Maybe she Craig: is. I don’t know. I don’t remember. But, um, she was very beautiful of course, but she also just had a really. Bunkie and I’m sure she still does a very spunky personality that made her really fun to watch on screen. And she has a relatively small part in this movie, but I still enjoyed seeing her. And, and you’re right. You know, this is young Dennis Quaid and somehow Dennis Quaid was. Involved in this movie kind of from its inception. And they wrote this role with him in mind and he was really the only choice to play it because he was so enthusiastic about it and bringing it to fruition. And I liked Dennis Quaid. I still liked Dennis Quaid. He’s handsome. He’s funny. He seems very down to earth, but in this movie, he is very young, very handsome. You’re right. He’s got kind of that cocky attitude about him. It’s, it’s charming. It’s endearing. Um, and, and this really, I mean, he’s a baby in this. The other thing that I remember him from, especially from when I was a kid was Innerspace with him and Brian. Oh my God. And I loved that movie. And this is even before that, He’s a little, he’s a little baby, but a very handsome and charming and, and good in this role. I would love the Todd: excuse to do interspace on this show. We can’t really call it a horror movie, but man, that’s another movie you’ve got to go out and see that, you know, it still holds up. I was actually guested on another podcast that was done by some friends of mine years ago. And the, we did interspace there and I remember us just loving that movie. It was so good even today. So I’m at this movie. I think this movie is kind of ripe for a remake. I feel like it’s dated. And it’s not terrible. It’s just dated. Maybe that’s just the best way to put it. And I feel like you could take this whole concept, um, changed almost nothing about it and just update it for modern times. And, uh, it would be great. I think someone needs to do this. It’s really interesting. If you look at the poster for this movie, it is like a rip off of the Indiana Jones posters. They’re really trying to make this look like this Indiana Jones, this type globe trotting thing with the poster art, it looks just like the temple of doom and the Raiders. Exactly. Poster art. I mean, obviously that’s intentional and then I have some really cool Italian poster art that I’m going to put up on when I, when we post this on the website, that’s hilarious. Well, I Craig: know that Italian stuff is crazy. Some of it doesn’t even make it easy. Like, did they even see this? Todd: But in somehow that’s kind of in the spirit of this movie, because again, the movie is a little bit all over the place in what it tries to be in the genre that it is it’s, it has a surreal elements to it. It has very down to earth elements to it has some corny elements to it. Some touching parts, somehow it still kind of works. I mean, don’t get me wrong. I mean, the movie is dated and it, I, you know, it had its issues, but the only real issue I had with the movie was the film score. I felt like the music, it didn’t deserve this music. I don’t know. Maybe you feel differently. Uh, well kind Craig: of just because I know having looked into it, that it was very intentional now. I don’t remember who the composer Todd: was. W no, first you got the composers, Maurice JaRay who is a very Craig: famous, Oh Todd: yeah. Lawrence of Arabia, doctorate of Wago, you know? Right. Craig: Like these huge classic films, Todd: ghost dead poet’s society, gorillas in the mist. I mean, all of the, I mean, massive, massive films and really beautiful scores that this guy can write, just not in this movie. Craig: Well, they wanted him to do an orchestral score like he normally did, and he specifically did not want to, he wanted to do a scent score because he felt like a synth score would. Highlight the dream-like nature of everything that’s going on, both in the dreams and in the real world, because even in the real world, it’s all very mad cap like this, this movie is action packed. It’s not terribly long, but as I always say, you know, I take notes and I have like two pages of plot notes. Like it’s always moving things happening all the time. It’s very plot driven, the scifi fantasy stuff with the dream stuff, which we’ll get into, which is. Important, but even outside of that, it really is very much a political thriller. And so, yeah, there’s lots of chases and investigation and tension and, and it’s good. It all works, works together though. The score of does of course seem very dated. It’s very eighties. I feel like I get what he was going for, especially in some scenes, like the first time that we. Enter into dreams with our main character, Alex, Dennis Quaid, the synthetic score makes it feel very surreal and dreamlike. And of course they do stuff with the cinematography that also today looks very dated. It takes you out of reality. It doesn’t look real. There’s something off about it. There’s something off about the way it looks and there’s something off about the way it sounds. And I thought it was effective. And I get what you’re saying. I understand the criticism, especially from a modern perspective. I think if you take a young audience and put them in front of this, they’re going to roll their eyes and Oh my God, that’s so eighties and yeah, it is, but I don’t know. It was on point for that time, you know, it was. It was innovative at the time. Yeah. I Todd: mean, I understand the reason he made that choice and I can imagine that, you know, maybe make that same choice if I were him, but I kind of disagree on this. I feel like it, look, I love since scores and I don’t mind that dated quality. Heck you know, we talk about this all the time about how sometimes that’s, you know, that takes us back and we liked that, but I feel like it was a miscalculation in this movie because I felt like the synth score seemed thin and I felt like it cheap under the movie a bit, the film that’s trying to be this sort of a, not globetrotting, but like you said, this like political thriller, that’s always moving and there’s tons of action and there’s intrigue in this stuff. It deserved. Something a little more orchestral and suspenseful. And somehow I just don’t feel like the synthesized score that he came up with rises to that occasion. It just bothered me. It bothered me while watching it. And I mean, I get it and it’s fine. And, and it works in the dream sequences, I think. But then in the rest of the movie with the chase scenes and that stuff, I don’t know. It just, wasn’t what I normally expect in a film like this. And, and not that it always has to follow these rules, but in this case it just took me out of it a little bit. And I was disappointed enough. Anyway. Craig: I mean, I feel like we, we can’t go through every plot point. The, the, the podcast would be two hours long. So we’re going to have to kind of do the CliffsNotes version, but I feel like we should at least get into it. The first thing we see turns out to be a dream sequence. It’s this woman running away from what looks like devastation, and it’s all very like color saturated and reds. It. Looks dreamlike, but of course, this is the very first thing we’re seeing. So we’re not sure exactly what’s going on and this woman’s running down the road. And then behind her seemingly a nuclear explosion happens. Um, and she ends up getting an isolated or whatever, and this guy wakes up, this was his dream. And it turns out that this guy is the president of the United States played by Eddie. Todd: Albert. Craig: Yeah. For three Todd: natures. Yeah. Right. I mean, I know he’s been in a lot of other stuff, but I just think of them. Oh, that’s the green acres guy. Craig: I didn’t even realize that’s what he was from. But as soon as you said it, I’m like, Oh yeah, that guy. And so he’s being troubled by these dreams. Then we find out that there are these people who are doing dream studies and it’s, uh, Kate Capshaw who plays a lady named Jane . And Dr. Paul Novotny played by max Von CEDAW and max Von seed out of course is huge, you know, around the world and in Hollywood. Right? And he and Christopher Plummer, their paths crossed many times. Uh, they, they worked together several times. They were up for the same roles and it makes sense. They have a similar demeanor. So it makes sense. Anyway, they’re working on this dream project. Novotny talks about how he wants to get this kid that he worked with before that it goes to them named Alex, who was like played by Dennis Quaid, who was the most successful or, or talented, um, psychic that he had ever worked with. But right in the middle of their work together, Alex had had just split, like he had just disappeared. And then we meet Alex and he’s a scamp. Like he’s a lovable scamp. I love it. He uses his psychic abilities to place winning bets at the race track with, yeah. Why the hell? Not Todd: exactly what I would do if I were psychic, finally, we see something true to life in one of these movies was psychics. Right. But. It’s a little unclear, right? Like the extent of his abilities, because although he’s able to like predict the winning of the racetrack, it’s not like he reads minds so much in this movie, but he also apparently can move things with his mind. Or at least when he was being researched was, was able to do some of that. We see in some footage later on or earlier on when they’re kind of talking about this guy right Craig: later, we see that classic like psychic test where there’s two people sitting on opposite sides of the table and one person is drawing up cards and then, you know, he can get, it’s a red triangle, it’s a green circle. And he gets it right every single time. Who knows if that’s really a thing, but, and he really Todd: was in Ghostbusters Ghostbusters. That must be well, that was that’s right. When he, they bring him back because he’s being chased. Uh, and at first he’s being chased, uh, at the, at this racetrack, by some guys who, who basically want to use him. Right. They want their onto them and then they want to cut and all that. And he he’s pretty good at escaping and getting the slip on them. But then he gets taken at his home. A couple Craig: of heavies show up at his door. Yeah. Todd: Heavies from the university. From the university. Yeah. It’s hilarious that this university professor. They’re sending out Craig: these right. He’s very compliant with them at first because the other guys, the racetrack guys are after him. So basically these heavies are getting him away from the other heavies. And so he goes with them. But when he’s kind of in the clear, away from the guys who are chasing him, he’s like, Oh, okay Todd: guys, Hey, Craig: uh, Todd: listen, guys, I’ve thought this over and Craig: I’m not really interested once you just let me Todd: out for the last Sienna. You okay? I know this is going to sound a bit Craig: sinister Mr. Gardner, but, uh, we have instructions to bring you back with us. I mean, I’m being kidnapped. Well, there are some people up at Thornhill Todd: that Craig: are anxious to meet with you. Yeah. Well, what would you do if I just opened the door and jumped? Todd: Huh? In both Craig: of these guys who play these crony type guys, both familiar. I’ve seen them both in. Things as this type of character several times, but anyway, they ended up taking him to the university. You know, it’s a little suspenseful because he’s not really going, if it’s freewill, you don’t really know what’s going on, but when he gets there, you know, it’s Novotny and they know each other, they have a relationship, you know, he’s not, doesn’t appear that he’s in terrible danger or anything, but he doesn’t want to, he doesn’t want to have anything to do with it. He just wants to go back to his life and do his own thing. And Novotny basically blackmails him and says, listen, I know what you’re doing. You know, with all these racetrack winnings and stuff, it would really suck if the IRS or to get wind of that. So Alex gets pulled into this and what they’re doing, and I love this premise. I think it’s a great premise. They are doing therapy by psychically linking people and allowing the psychics to enter the unconscious dream state of. Patients and in doing that, they’re supposed to be able to help them overcome their fears, deal with whatever issues that they are working with or whatever. It’s interesting because this movie came out, I think the same year or just one year before a nightmare on Elm street. And they’re very similar that idea of going into other people’s dreams. In fact, somebody involved in this movie, was it the writer? I think Chuck Todd: Russell, one of the writers of the screenplays. Yeah. Yeah. Craig: He wrote nightmare on Elm street three. Yeah. So there major, major connections, which is kind of interesting that nightmare on Elm street went on to become such a huge franchise. And this one is seemingly forgotten because I think this movie compared to the original nightmare on Elm street in terms of quality, very similar, and they’re both very Todd: competent brain scan, I think came out the year before this. So there was a little slew here of, of jumping into people’s dreams, movies. Now I’m curious when I was a kid, my impression of this whole thing was that it’s this machinery, this technology that they’re using that allows people to enter dreams. And the fact that he’s psychic just makes it easier for him. Like it, like somehow he’s more easily able to like adapt to the process or, you know, cause it does require some mental capacity as well. That has to be sort of trained. And some people are better at it than others. And they figure that these psychics or whatever are better at it. Right. Or is it really are the machines that they’re hooked up to kind of just monitoring their vital signs of what’s. Do you know, is there a difference I’m Craig: with you in that growing up? I thought that the machine, because it looks like their heads are connected by wires. They’re both, both subjects are sitting in these like. Recline chairs, something comfortable that they could sleep in, obviously. And then there’s a big machine between them and they’re both, they both got like some kind of like skull cap on, and then also things that are monitoring them. I thought the machinery had something to do with it as well. Like you, I haven’t seen this. And at least a couple of decades, but watching it again this time, I wasn’t really sure, sure. What the machinery was other than monitor bring them because you find out later in the movie that the psychics, and we only see psychics do this. If anybody can do it, we don’t see anybody else do it. Right. We only see psychics do it. We find out later in the movie that they can do it without the machinery. I don’t know if the machinery just, you know, AIDS in monitoring them or sedating them or what I mean, they, they are keeping, they’re monitoring them closely. They’ve got cameras on their eyes so that they can see when they go into REM sleep, they’re monitoring their heart rates and all that kind of stuff, which is important because in the dreams, if something is going on, that’s threatening, you know, which they. Can tell by advanced heart rate and stuff, then they wake them up. But I don’t know. I think really the machines are there to, Todd: well, he makes a funny comment earlier when he first sees it, she got here, who’s your decorator, Darth Vader. So Craig: funny. It is. It’s funny. So he gets, he gets blackmailed into doing it. Then we see them, you know, they do a little bit of training or whatever, but they basically just throw them right in. We also see before this, before he even knows what’s going in, he walks in on them doing this with somebody else, a little boy and another male psychic who we don’t. No, we’re never introduced to, um, but something goes wrong and we see that the male psychic is catatonic in the wake of it. Like they take him away, strapped into a chair and a van and we never see him again, something went terribly wrong. So we know that the stakes are potentially high, but Alex wants to get right in there is like, let’s do it. So they throw him in with this guy. Who’s a construction worker. In his dream there at the top of this construction site, it’s all shot. You know, I don’t, you would be better able to describe the cinematography style than I, but it is very dreamlike. And, you know, as it turns out, there’s like an accident on the site. It’s just the two men in the dream, but the guy who’s dreaming, like falls over the edge and is hanging off a beam. And Alex has to like jump onto the beam to try to save him. And the score is very intense and eventually Alex falls and he, he wakes up right before he hits the ground, which is significant because later we find out that, that old theory that if you die in your dream, you die in real life. Again, another connection to like nightmare on Elm street. But we get, I just thought that this was a really good scene to establish for us what’s going on. Yeah. Like you’re in the dream, you’re an active participant in the dream. Um, and things can happen. You can help each other out, but you also can Todd: be harmed exactly. And the way, you know, the way these were shot, I think it kind of goes in this movie’s favor unintentionally, or maybe intentionally is that what we get as a lot of special effects work that much of it looks dated. Now it’s like rear projection screen or blue screen kind of stuff, but also intentionally fantastic backgrounds and things as well. And I’m willing to give it all a bit of a pass because these are supposed to be dreams. So I feel like even the filmmakers themselves, we’re not that concerned with this looking hyper realistic because they were looking for a surreal quality to the dreams. So absolutely Craig: this one. Is the least surreal of them. All the colors are kind of oddly changed and stuff. And like, you can tell that somehow, you know, the sky above them, the clouds moving faster. Right, right. Unnaturally fast. So it is very dreamlike, but of all of them, this is the most realistic later they become. Abstract and surreal Todd: nightmares basically. I mean, they’re all nightmares. And it’s funny. I actually saw an interview with Dennis Quaid, where he was talking about shooting this and they were up on the top of the tallest building in LA at the time I was like 50 stories and he says he distinctly remember shooting it because they were, they were up there pretty high. And he said, they basically just had nets underneath of that just to keep them from falling too far. And he said, I’m not sure that would fly today. God, Craig: can you imagine? I can’t. And it’s funny because the way that it looks on screen, that seems totally unnecessary. Yeah. I Todd: take really full advantage of that. Did they? Yeah. Craig: Alex is excited because it worked and he can do it and he gets how it goes now. Todd: Oh. And that other guy, uh, then he meets another guy, right. Who comes into his Craig: Rami. Tommy. And Tommy is the villain. Tommy establishes himself as the villain, right from the beginning. And he’s laid by a guy named David, Patrick Kelly, who was in some other things. He was in the warriors and he was in any always from what I read, because I recognize them. But mostly from this movie, he just has a very, weasely look about him and to his credit, he plays that. Weasley guy very well. Um, you know, he seems like somebody, you would know and you’d be like, Oh, that guy Todd: with the BDS eyes and the sharp pointed nose and all that like poor guy. But this is the really interesting thing about this movie. And this is where I think if I were to update this, you know, I would change it is that there’s never really any question who the bad people are and the sinister things that are going on. You know, the movie doesn’t really hold its cards close to its chest. It really just kind of lays all this out for you openly and in the beginning. And just, uh, you know, your job is just to kind of follow the ride and see where it leads because after he meets him in his room and picks up a saxophone and annoyingly honks on it, does all, you know, kind of like basically he’s jealous of Alex’s first time, quick success in this, Craig: because. You know, Alex is the new bright shining star, whereas before Tommy had been the superstar. And so he’s all about telling Alex, you know, it’s cute that you’re good at this or whatever, but I’m the top dog and don’t forget it, stay in your lane. Exactly. You know, he’s marking his territory. Like this is my deal. And he does it in a very smarmy way. I mean, if you want to get all analytical about it, I guess if I were in Tommy’s position, I’d be kind of pissed too. You know, I’ve been working on this for a while. I’ve been the superstar, and now here comes in this new hot shot who everybody’s all excited about. I’d be irritated too. But like he, he, he obviously is on kind of a power trip. Um, and it just establishes his character, frankly. He plays a very small role too. But they introduce him here early so that we know that he’s there and that he’s a threat. Todd: Yeah. How his character comes in early and so sinister in the very beginning and then seems to just disappear for a while until about three quarters of the way through or two thirds of the way through when the previous stuff is, is getting resolved. And now we have this other danger that’s gotta happen. You know, it’s a very much, I mean, this movie is very much three-act structured. I think it’s very clear. I think it’s shortly after this meeting that then we meet Bob Blair who we’d seen a little bit earlier, but, and then he just goes right up to Alex and he’s like, Hey, congratulations. By the way, this is a government project. Mike, congratulations Craig: to you. They told me about your successful dream league. Well done. This is only the beginning. You know, we all feel that the possibilities for our program are tremendously exciting, but we’ve got to see that you don’t jeopardize the wonderful work you’ve already done. I don’t follow you, Bob. You have been playing it’s a little fast and loose since you got here. That was unauthorized visits to the dream chamber. For instance, that’s Todd: a bit Craig: sneaky. I loved this scene only because even though Alex has already. Done this dream jump. Once they’re still doing testing on him and they’re doing like a cat scan or an MRI or something. Um, so he’s just coming out of the machine and he strapped down and Bob Blair played by Christopher Plummer. He’s high-level government. And that’s kind of like, we all, you really know. Yeah. You don’t need the specifics. He’s just really, really important in the government. Right? A lot of Paul has a lot of sway and he comes in and he’s talking to Alex and Alex is strapped down to the table and, and Alex says, you know, can, can you unstrap me? Can you let me up? And Bob’s like, no, I’m just going to have this conversation with you, with you strapped down to the slab. Exactly. I just felt like it really, it’s such an easy way of establishing the dynamic. Like I’m in charge Todd: and he’s super sinister about it too, you know, just the same kind of deal, like okay. Government project. Craig: Got it. Stretches this out, but I feel like we don’t need to. Um, Bob is, is, uh, a confidant of the president. They seem to be on very friendly terms and the president has. Told Bob Blair that he’s having these dream problems. And Blair is like, well, you know, I know about this project. Maybe I can help you. But in that same conversation, the president tells him what his dreams are about, about all this, because the president has several dreams throughout the movie and they’re all the same. They’re all the aftermath of this terrible nuclear fallout. He feels that that’s something that could happen. And if it does, he’s responsible for it. So he confides in Blair that he’s going to meet with the leaders of, I don’t remember if it was the Soviet union or Russia at the time, but whichever he was going to meet with them and try to come to some sort of peace accord where they would do a complete disarmament, but Blair doesn’t like that. And so it’s obvious from the beginning, basically what. Blair is setting up, you know, he’s going to somehow get the president into this dream study. It’s not necessarily evident exactly what he’s going to do, but he’s going to use this dream. Thing to try to prevent the president from doing this a Todd: nuclear Craig: disarmament treaty. Yeah. There’s no sense in drawing it out. As it turns out he is planning on assassinating the president and asleep because he thinks that he can get away with it. You know, nobody would believe it. They can cover it up. They can just make it look like he died naturally and asleep. He’s just very sinister from the beginning. Like you said, they, they, the movie lays its cards out, you know, it’s, it’s not trying to keep anything from you really, even though it is suspenseful because it moves at such a quick pace. Right, Todd: right. And ultimately, this, this is another aspect of it. Like I said, I would change because. Oh, it goes all the way to the top, you know, it’s like, yeah, Craig: the president doesn’t even have a name. It’s just Mr. President. That’s right. Todd: Hilariously high, you know, for this little study, that’s kind of being conduct. I mean, groundbreaking don’t get me wrong. You know, study book that has all these potential implications and could be weaponized in so many different ways and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. But first we’re going to use it to assassinate the president. Right. Craig: And of course, you know, very unrealistically, but as it always happens in these types of movies, the people who are working on the project, it’s like they never considered that it could be used for these nefarious purposes. Like when they find out that. It might be used for these nefarious purposes. They’re shocked and appalled like, Oh my God, what have we done? Todd: Come on. Craig: this leads up to again, another the dream sequences are for me, the most exciting, the action stuff is exciting too. Don’t get me wrong. There are great like car slash horse slash motorcycle flash, like airplane chases, like all that’s great. I very much enjoyed it, but the, the stuff that was my cup of tea was the dream stuff. And I had mentioned earlier that psychic, who had gone into a dream and something had gone terribly wrong and he had ended up catatonic and gotten. Sent away. Well, the person’s whose dream he had gone into had been this little boy named buddy. Of course, this little boy is suffering from these terrible, terrible, debilitating nightmares that are caused, you know, his physical health is deteriorating because of them. Alex takes a liking to him in part because Jane Kate Capshaw is working with a little boy. And he’s also trying to get closer to Jane. There’s a romance side plot too. There’s one part of that that I want to talk about when we get to it, but really it’s just the eighties romance subplot, which is fine. They’re both sexy people. Watch them flirt with each other, right? Whatever Alex gets kind of attached to this little boy and he wants to help him. So he tells Novotny. I want to go in to this kid’s dream. And the Valley’s like, absolutely not. I already lost one guy to this. You’re too valuable. I can’t risk it. And Alex says, well, we do it. Or I’m out, you know, Novotny is hesitant, but Alex is, Todd: it’s hilarious that Nevani conveniently forgets that he’s still blackmailing him, that he can just go back. Well, you can’t get out cause the IRS, so no, you’re not going to do it. Then that’s the end Craig: of that. I didn’t even really thought about that. I imagine the truth of the matter is Nevani probably is very curious and interested to see what Alex can do. I do think that he’s trying to protect his investment. But ultimately he wants to see if it can work out. And so they do, I mean, this all happened so fast. Like it’s, it’s Alex in Nevada Annie’s office saying, look, I’m doing it or I’m out and about he’s like, no, you can’t. Okay, fine then boom. We’re in the lab. Todd: And this was actually my favorite dream sequence. I’d forgotten. Really good. It’s it’s special effects heavy and it’s great. There’s stop motion animation. And they’re, they’re these elaborate sets. Um, everything is kind of off kilter the boys just in real. Yeah. It’s just kind of like in a haunted house and it, and they basically ended up getting chased by this what the snake man he’s been drawing pictures of it and all kinds of stuff, but there’s this, you know, villain in his dreams basically that is this giant snake. Man. Yeah, it’s just like a giant snake creature chases them through the house and they go down this crazy staircase and they end up in the basement and then Alex fights with it in the dream. And there’s a nice mix of great makeup effects and stop motion and the sets and everything. It’s just, it’s just a lot of fun. Craig: And on the blue Ray release of this, there are behind the scenes interviews and they talk to, um, some of the special effects, people who worked on this. And, and like you said, it is a mix. There is a guy in a suit, but a lot of it is also done with stop motion, like Claymation. And it does look. Dated, but anybody who’s ever listened to this show before knows that I am a huge fan of stuff of practical effects. It just it’s artistry. It’s craftmanship. And that’s not to say that CGI isn’t. I know that there are. Artists behind those keyboards, putting that CGI together. I get it, but it’s just different to me. And I just so much appreciate this. That’s why, when you said it’s rife for a remake, I agree with you because I think there’s so much potential that I feel like Todd: you’re going to fuck it up with, uh, with CGI. Craig: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it’s just going to all be CGI. It’s all going to be effects driven. I feel like that they will neglect a lot of the story in favor of spectacle, which is okay. That’s fine. There’s certainly an audience for that. In fact, it’ll probably draw, you give, bringing more money in if that’s what you focus on. I just, uh, I, I do worry and I would be totally down if they made a remake, I would watch it hands down, but I just feel like something would be lost. But the, the, the whole snake man thing is very scary, but the cool part about it is. To me is that Alex can’t defeat the snake man on his own. In fact, he gets wounded, um, in the dream and, and he’s tussling one-on-one with this giant, I don’t know, it’s gotta be nine, 10 feet tall. At least snake guy, buddy has to be the one. To defeat it. Any is any chops, its head off and its head goes falling down into some like enormous fantastical spiral staircase or something looks great. And they both wake up and buddy is ecstatic. You know, we did it, we beat it. You know, now that he’s beaten it in his dreams, I guess it’s not going to be a threatening more. I don’t think we ever see buddy again, but I felt like it was an important part of the movie to show what is possible there, but also that snake man freaked, Alex, the crack out. And there’s a scene where he’s, I don’t know, in the cafeteria, the library, something on this campus and he’s, he’s sketching it. And Tommy comes up behind him and sees it and he’s like, Oh, I guess that really freaks you out. Huh? And he’s like, yeah, even in the moment you’re thinking, okay, there’s is going to be significant later. Tommy knows. What Alex is afraid of. Yep. Todd: It’s great. It’s is it C it’s also very Indiana Jones, right? Snakes. Why did have to be snakes? So many parallels? There’s more coming too funny. I’m just trying to get Jane to go out a budge and there’s a bunch of that crap. And then he goes to a bar. There’s a bar that they’ve been in a couple of times. There’s a guy there named Charlie played by George went, you know, from cheers. Yeah. And this bit I thought was just totally unnecessary because we know sinister stuff is going on. We don’t need this character here to just hammer that point home. Yeah. But here he is. And so he’s a horror writer. He’s clearly modeled after Stephen King or something, you know, and he says, Hey, I know you’re involved in this project and I’ve got to tell you like their ulterior motives here, I’m investigating this as material for my next book or something like that. Right. And then there’s shady guys there who kind of chase him out and it’s like, okay, this, this part Craig: was dumb. It’s funny because in the movie it didn’t bother me. Like there’s even some exciting parts where they start getting followed by these thugs. And they end up in this big crowd of students that like a pep rally or something. And George wind’s character ends up getting killed. Right. You know, in this big crowd, but there’s so much commotion going on that nobody even notices. Like it didn’t bother me in the moment. But as we’re sitting here talking about the movie, I’m looking at Jordan picture. On IMD and the cast list. And I’m like, Oh God, how do we work that in? Like, it’s so unnecessary. Like he’s just there to alert Alex to the fact that there is something shady going on. That’s it, that’s his only purpose. And it’s unnecessary. Cause he could have figured it out on his own or it could have been revealed in some other ways, some other way, Todd: but it’s gotta be like this super famous writer who gets murdered. Like, I mean, again, like it’s like, I guess this movie it’s like go big or go home. Right. It’s not just anybody investigating this. It’s like the Stephen King of the movie world who then is going to get shot, which would surely cause big Craig: issues. Yeah. Everything happens so quickly after that, that I don’t even know that there would be time for it to be a big issue. He tells him he’s after the president or something and Alex like what? And then the thugs show up and they shoot the author guy and immediately. They catch Alex, throw him in a car with Blair who says, yeah, we’re doing this. You can either get on board or we’re going to kill you. That’s it just lays it out. Alex. It’s very simple. Todd: Either you work for me or die, Craig: but he gets away. And that’s when there’s a great, big, fun chasing, like back at the racetrack where he had been before and he’s on a motorcycle and they’re on the horse track and they’re chasing him in cars and it’s fun. It is fun. I liked it stupid, but it’s fun. So at that point he knows what’s going on and yeah. And then it’s time to, you know, foil Blair’s plan. We skipped one thing that I, yeah, I know pursuit of Jane, which is totally fine and cute. She basically says to him, look, I’m into YouTube, but I also know that you’re a huge womanizer, which he is, we’ve seen it and she’s like, you know, we’re working together. I’m not just going to be another one of your conquests or whatever. And, and she basically shuts them down. Despite the fact that she says I get it, I’m into YouTube. So they, they separate. And then. He comes to her office and she’s asleep on her couch and he sits down in the chair next to her and closes his eyes. It’s obvious what he’s doing. He’s trying to get into her dream. And he does. And this scene, at least parts of it were censored from some releases because there’s a sex scene. Uh, a very mild with absolutely no nudity. Sex scene. Yeah, but after the theatrical release, I think on the initial video release, it was censored. And then even on some subsequence, subsequent releases, it’s been censored. We saw it. It’s very tame. It’s totally within the realm of PG 13 coming at it from a 20, 21 perspective. I was like, okay, you know, like this is fun. It’s a fun, it’s cool that he can get into the dreams without needing the machinery. This is the first time that we, I learned that and in the wake of what happens, he reminds her of that. And they’re both in awe of it as well. In my notes, I wrote and he enters her dream without her knowledge or her consent. Todd: Right. Like, it’s not Craig: okay. He is consciously aware of what’s going on and she’s not, she just thinks she’s dreaming and they bone, and then she wakes up and she’s like, how dare you? But, and then whatever, like Todd: a little rapey it is. And it’s funny how they do address it a little bit. Like she is pretty pissed off about it, but then like, you’re like, yeah. Okay. Well, you know, whatever it definitely nowadays, this is a, actually again, you remake this movie, that would be a really interesting aspect of this whole concept. I mean, you could explore it, right. I mean, it’s. Craig: Yeah, that would be a much bigger issue than apparently it was in 1984. Todd: Oh yeah. It would be treated totally differently. It was a different time. We were Craig: rapier. No, and it didn’t. I know isn’t that so bizarre. Like it didn’t, it never even crossed my mind in 1980. No, never, Todd: well, not as a kid either. Craig: Well, uh, true. And, but even then I think had I been an adult, I thought, well, it was just a dream, you know, it’s not like, it’s not like there were any fluids exchanged or anything, no harm, no foul, but today I’m like, Ooh, Todd: that’s pushing it a little bit. Another thing, there was apparently another sex scene between them at some point in the movie. Oh really? I didn’t know that it was taken out and it’s sort of the last sex scene because supposedly it contained nudity. Supposedly was it was not taken out in Europe, but it was taken out in the U S and it was in one release. Wasn’t in another release. No, the sex scene supposedly was shot, but nobody’s ever found it. Like, it’s, it hasn’t really shown up anywhere nowadays where it’s concrete and he photos of it or anything like that. So it’s, it’s a little bit of a mystery around the movie of Cape Cod capshaw’s, you know, boobies were in this at some point or another. Anyway. I mean, Craig: I wouldn’t have been sad to see it. They’re both. Very attractive people. I’m sure they looked great. Todd: Oh, and you know, just like in like half of his movies, his ass is in this movie several times, right? Craig: I mean, he’s in little, he’s in little tiny briefs, a lot, which is fine. I mean, if he just wanted to wear that all the time, that’d be all right. Dennis Quaid is in his seventies. Now, and he’s still super vulnerable. Oh my God. And he only, he recently within the last couple of years got remarried. He’s been married several times. He was married to Meg Ryan for quite a long time. And, um, their marriage ended, I think because, um, she had an affair with Russell Crowe, which was unfortunate because they were such a cute couple. I just loved them. But he’s, I think been married a couple of times since then. I think I could be wrong. I didn’t look this up, but I do know that within the past couple of years, he remarried a much younger, very beautiful woman. And from everything I’ve seen, they’re very happy, so good for him. And good for him for still being hot in the Todd: seventies. This is, this is becoming our Dennis Quaid tribute episode, a parent listen, uh, Craig: Christopher Plummer was hot too. I, you know, I don’t, I don’t think of him in that way. He’s more of a, like a fatherly kind of figure in my mind, but that’s a different how other people could get down with it. Todd: It’s a different kind of fantasy maybe. Oh Craig: man. Okay. So this, it comes down to the final showdown where. Alex and Jane are aware of what’s going on. They make Novacki aware of it. And, uh, maximum on CEDAW and Christopher Plummer have a scene together where the body’s like, I’ll never let you get away with this. And Blair is like, okay, bye. My men are waiting in the hall to shoot you. They do. And he’s dead and gets thrown in the trunk of a car. The plan is they’ve got the president there for this sleep treatment or whatever it is. And Blair, Christopher Plummer goes out of his way to make sure that the president is in this particular room. And as it turns out, it’s because he’s going to have Tommy in the adjoining room and he’s going to have Tommy go into his dream and assassinate him. But Alex and Jane are on onto them. And Jane’s office conveniently is immediately below. The room that the president is sleeping in. So Alex goes into, and Alex actually gets there first and he gets there. And it’s the dream that we’ve seen. It’s on a train now, but it’s still, you know, just this train going through this post-apocalyptic hellscape Alex tells the president, this is who I am. This is why I’m here. They’re sending somebody in here to kill you and they can do it. And it’s Blair and he’s against you. And the president’s like what, okay, Todd: not the sharpest knife in the drawer of this president, you know, Craig: whatever. But then Tommy shows up and I have to give David Patrick Kelly who plays Tommy credit. He’s great. In this scene, he is very. Intimidating and frightening. And what’s most frightening about him is that because he’s been doing this for longer than Alex, he’s a pro at it. We failed to mention that we had seen that he had killed somebody in a dream previously. We didn’t actually witness it happen. We saw it happen from the outside, but Alex put two and two together that he had killed this woman in her sleep. Todd: Also, Alex had broke it into the doctor’s office and pulled out the file on Tommy. And it turned out that there’s a classic newspaper clipping that’s self-proclaimed psychic murders father with a Craig: photograph of the dead father with bullet holes all throughout his body. I’m glad you remembered. Cause that is very significant, um, in this last scene, but this last scene, you know, it’s all a dream and Tommy has realized from his experience that he can do anything in. A dream, you know, it’s all subconscious, so he can do whatever he wants. He can be whatever he wants. He can, if he wants to be a Ninja and uses nunchucks in the subway, he can. And, and it’s great. It’s a great scene. I actually read that, that nunchucks scene, which I think is really fun. And actually David, Patrick Kelly studied martial arts. So he was showing off some of his own skills. It had to be cut in the UK because they had like a ban on nunchucks. Like why it’s unfortunate. Cause he was really good with the nunchucks. Todd: Wrong in this word has none shuts also sort of like kind of star Wars, the light Sabrie as well. Craig: They’re kind of dream glowing. I don’t know it was fun, but like it’s a whole big chase. Like he’s chasing them through different places, different scenes. And because it’s a dream, they can go through a door in a train car and then ended up in the subway and then open up another door and ended up in some underground layer, like, which is cool. And it is all very surreal and it feels very much like the end of a nightmare on Elm street movie, where they typically end up in some sort of Freddy hellscape, you know what I mean? That’s what it felt very much. Todd: And also this contains the one. Seem that I remember more than anything else about this movie that I just completely connected to. And that’s when he there’s like a policeman who comes in and in the dreams like, Hey, what’s going on here? And, uh, Tommy grabs him and displays his fingers, which are now has have blades on the top of each of his fingers, plunges it into this guy’s chest and pulls out a stillbirth. Now we’ve already been talking about nightmare on Elm street, came out this year for the first time. That’s like an obvious type Freddy type thing. What a coincidence, right? Yeah. And then the second thing that also this year, Indiana Jones and the temple of doom and what happens right in front of Kate Capshaw in that movie too, is a dude gets his heart taken out. You know, I mean, it’s, it’s crazy. These, these connections right in this movie Craig: really genuinely seemed to be coincidence, right? It’s, it’s wild, it’s a big showdown and it’s fun, you know, and there are like held dogs and all kinds of crazy things going on there in this big underground place, fire, you know, Mostly reds, you know, in the color scheme. And Alex is trying to get the president away, but eventually they come to a dead end. Tommy catches up with them, Tommy and Alex fight a little bit. But then Tommy says, I know what you’re really afraid of. And he turns into the snake man, and they fight a little more and he throws Alex a way. He throws him off to the side and Alex is kind of injured. And then Tommy starts to go for the president behind Tommy’s back. Alex stands up and it’s like, not that he realizes that he can be whatever he wants, but he’s just never done it before. So it takes him a second to kind of figure it out. But he transforms himself into the image of Tommy’s dead father, complete with bullet holes and everything. And he starts talking to Tommy and Tommy is obviously affected and moved. You know, he’s like, mm. Daddy. If he weren’t such a psychopath, bad guy, you’d feel a little bad for him, but he is. So you don’t and the president stabs him from behind. Everybody wakes up. Well, not everybody, uh, Tommy doesn’t it he’s dead. Uh, Blair watches him, convulsing die in his bed, but everybody else wakes up and the president comes out to be greeted by Blair. And the president is basically like, I know what you did. And Blair’s like, okay, well, good luck proving to anybody else. Right. They’re just going to say you’re crazy. So whatever. Um, and it seems like. You know, what are they going to do? And Alex is trying to run away because people are still after him. And he runs into the president and the president, thanks him and offers him protection or whatnot. But Alex is talking to Jane and he’s like, you know, I have to take care of this. So the next thing we see is Blair walking in what appears to be a government building. I don’t know, some fancy building. He’s walking down this big, Holly comes to an elevator. He pushes the button and the elevator opens and it’s Alex just standing there. And, you know, I guess it depends on where your mind is at the time, but really at this point, I wasn’t sure what was going on. As it turns out Alex’s entered Blair stream and he kills him Todd: at a party fake monster or whatever in there and leaps out at them. And then I think the next thing is like, everything’s fine. Um, the girl and the boy are in the train and they’re starting to leave. And at this point, the ticket guy comes into there. Carriage room. And it’s the same ticket guy that was in that sexy dream that he entered and they kind of look at each other and then go off into the sunset. So is this supposed to be like an implication that maybe that was a little bit of a dream too? I Craig: don’t know. That always kind of blew my mind as a kid. Like, because they, they look at each other like, Whoa, Todd: what is Craig: it that the same guy from the dream? And then there’s like, ah, whatever, and they start making out and then the camera pans out and it pans out on the train as it’s going away. And then. Score is very pretty and it’s romantic and exciting. And it’s ambiguous. I liked, I liked the ambiguity of it. Maybe it is a dream. I mean, especially now the Alex knows that he can control the dreams. Why not just go on sexy train rides every day, Todd: sexual dream tourism. Yeah, that would be, well, this just means down tap. If I had a coupon or Craig: something, Todd: you prefer Dennis Quaid, uh, to be the one taking care of these. Yeah, definitely. Well, it reminded me a little bit of the end of, uh, the final scene and total recall, you know, it also plays with your mind a little bit like that, you know, it’s very similarly, although this one in a less profound, but just kind of cute way. I think. Yeah, like we said, I thought the movie was fun and you know, it was dated for sure. In many ways, it’s a little silly and over the top and some of these other ways. Ultimately would be a great movie to be remade. And I’m still kind of surprised that most people don’t really remember this film. I mean, in the internet age, everybody eventually remembers all this obscure stuff. But up until recently, nobody was talking about this again. You know, we grew up with it, watching it a ton on VHS, but, uh, I never really met anybody Craig: else who had, and on cable it played on cable a lot, I think. Yeah, we didn’t have it on VHS, but I remember watching it a bunch of times. And so I think that it played like on USA or some of those other cable channels. So it had a bit of a life. It did, but you’re you’re right. It’s a, I just don’t see people talking about it very often anywhere. I like it. It’s a fun movie. It’s entertaining. It’s fast paced. It’s it’s action. Heavy it’s well acted for what it is. I mean, it’s not, you know, a serious movie, but. Everybody in the movie is very competent. You’ve got some very, very prestigious actors in here. It is surprising that it’s not better known. I don’t know if movies that came after it were directly inspired by it. Like, like you said, there were other movies that were tackling similar things like going into dreams and stuff, but I read. You know, like a list of several movies that came after it, that seem to have been inspired by one of the ones that stood out to me. The only one that I can remember is the cell, which is another movie that I think that people don’t talk about very much. It was, uh, Jennifer Lopez was in that movie. We need to do that movie because it’s kind of over, it’s kind of overlooked. And I really liked it. Like I thought it was really good. And it was about the same premise. Is this movie going into people’s dreams, you know, for therapeutic. Purposes. But anyway, all I’m saying is it does seem to have had some lasting influence. I can’t say for certain that, you know, there’s a direct tie, but people who made those movies that came out later, I can only imagine like us, we’re probably around our age, we’re at least familiar with this movie and maybe there was some influence there overall. I would recommend it. You know, it it’s PG 13. It was only the second PG 13 movie ever. Um, once that was, uh, established as a rating and it’s got a lot to offer. Yes, there are the horror elements. And I think the horror elements are scary, but it’s also got, you know, like we said, political thriller going stuff, going on, action stuff going on, comedy. Romance. There’s, there’s really a little bit of everything. And I think that a lot of people could get on board with this, even if they’re not typically mainstream horror Todd: fans. Yeah. I totally agree with you. It was critically well reviewed. It was a box office success, you know, it made 12 million against a $6 million budget. It still has a 77% fresh rating on rotten tomatoes. And Roger, he really liked it. So, um, you know, I think this is probably why is because it just spans some genres and does it so well anyway. All right. So coming back to Christopher Plummer, of course, we reviewed this movie because we wanted to pay tribute to him. This was one of the few horror movies that he was in and he’s good. He’s great. Craig: He’s got a small role, but he’s good in it. He has such a commanding presence. I believe him a hundred percent as this villainous powerful character. I mean, he’s, he’s great. And you know, I’m not going to pretend to be like a, like a big, you know, Christopher Plummer, Stan, or anything, you know, I like the sound of music. It’s fine. I like him in that. I loved him and knives out. I thought he was a lot of fun in that. I’ve seen him in other things. He’s a solid actor, a solid performer. I’ve never seen him in anything where I thought, Oh man, that sucked. No, no. I mean, he’s, he’s good. He’s a craftsman. And uh, I’m glad that we are able to pay tribute to him. Todd: All right. Well, thank you so much for listening to another episode. If you enjoyed it, please share it with a friend. You can search for us online. Just look up two guys and a chainsaw podcast and find our website or Facebook page or YouTube channel a subscribe to us there and send us a message. Let us know what you thought of this episode and this movie and let us know what you would like us to review in the future until then I’m Todd with Two Guys and a Chainsaw. The post Dreamscape appeared first on 2 Guys & A Chainsaw.
59 minutes | 2 months ago
It's our 250th episode extravaganza! You know what that means: As we always do for milestones, we dig out another Wes Craven-directed flick from the vault to either gush over or lament. In this case, it's really neither, as we identified as many charms as flaws in 2005's Cursed - a movie with a production history that lives up to its title. Hear more inside. And thank you, dear listeners, for 250 solid episodes of support! Let's raise a bloody glass to 250 more. Expand to read episode transcript Automatic Transcript Cursed (2005) Episode 250, 2 Guys and a Chainsaw Todd: Hello and welcome to another episode of Two Guys and a Chainsaw. Craig: Hello, and welcome to the 250th episode of Two Guys and a Chainsaw. I know insert fake applause. Woo. Todd: “Looks like we made it after all.” Craig: 250. Can you believe it? Like that is just, it blows my mind. Todd: Yeah, it’s kind of hard to believe that you and I have sat down and had 250 conversations about for an hour each that’s 250 hours, even a little more than that of a us and namely chattering. Just about dumb movies. You believe it, who else can Craig: say that? I know there’s a running joke in my house, and I know that you are in a similar situation. My partner doesn’t listen to these episodes at all, ever. And so I told him we have to get to three 65 so that if I die first, he’ll have an episode to listen to every day for a year. Todd: Nice gift. You will leave him with I’m sure he was thrilled about that by the way. Craig: Yeah, he totally is. But, uh, here we are at two 50 and, um, with one exception on every mile, The stone episode, we have returned to our roots and done a West Craven film. Of course, we’re both huge West Craven fans. We were both pretty devastated when we lost him years ago and, uh, we’ve done a lot of our favorites. Um, so what we’re left with are some of his maybe less popular films. Uh, there are some still, uh, that we haven’t touched for various reasons. Last house on the left comes to mind. Mm Hills have eyes. Yeah. Oh God, that’s a good one too. But, uh, I actually have been trying to get Todd to do this movie. For a while. Really the primary reason is because this film has such a storied production history. What we’re doing today is a 2005 cursed, which is West Craven’s only werewolf film that he did with his, uh, Collaborator on scream, Kevin Williamson, even though it has a very interesting production history, which I’m sure we’ll talk about at length. Another reason that I wanted to do this is despite the fact that Craven and really most of the people involved with this movie were ultimately. Unsatisfied with it when it was released, I actually find it to be a fun and a really entertaining film. Yeah. It’s not bad. It’s really not. And despite what you will read about it and despite all of the. Production trouble that they had. I think ultimately, you know, it’s still fun and it I’m surprised that it wasn’t more successful than it was because it really wasn’t. It was kind of a flop really, but it’s very much in line with. And in the same style as those movies that were coming out in the early odds like scream, and I know what you did last summer, it’s just full to the brim of young, famous, good looking people. It’s very hip and. Cool and young and we are not exactly, but we were a member. We were a member a day, you know, when we thought we were Todd: cool. Yeah. That’s the big distinction when we thought we were, Craig: we never, maybe thought we were as cool as some of these kids in these. Teen movies from the early odds. But I, I was excited about this movie when it came out, I was always excited about new West Craven films. Um, of course, you know, both of us were big nightmare fans and then, you know, scream and West Craven really. Was kind of at, I don’t know if I would necessarily say it as best, but it is most popular, uh, during this time very mainstream and I was really, uh, excited about this movie. I don’t think I saw it in the theater, but I did see it. Uh, you know, I think as soon as it came out on video and I remembered liking it then, and I’ve watched it. I don’t know, maybe once or twice since then, it’s been a very long time since I’d revisited it. And I really thought that maybe my fondness for it would have waned over the years, but watching it again yesterday, I’m still a fan. I mean, there’s, it’s not great. It’s not one of his. Best movies, but I still found it to be entertaining and not super scary, but you know, good, scary elements going on overall. I enjoyed it and we can talk about its flaws and all that stuff. And that’s perfectly fine because it’s not a perfect movie. Um, and I’m. Really interested or would be, I suppose, really interested to know what the original vision would have turned out to be. But this is what we’re left with. There are actually a couple of versions. There’s an unrated version that I was unable to track down. So I watched the PG 13 version, which is available to rent on Amazon. Is that the version you watch too? Todd: Yes, sir. Unfortunately, Craig: I couldn’t find the unrated version and I, I’m not sure what the major differences are. Whoever owns the rights. I read a name. I don’t know who it was, whether it was a studio guy or what, but whoever owns the rights claims that they have. Three different complete versions of this. Yeah, the editor actually the editor, right? So there’s basically the original cut with all the original practical effects and the original actors. What’s so interesting about this is they shot it and then the Weinstein’s were unsatisfied with it. So they had to go back and reshoot it. And then the Weinstein’s were still unsatisfied with it. So they ended up shooting it at least one more time. I think that by the time they had finished it, they had done four shoots of this movie so much. So that entire plot points changed. And the cast changed like they had filmed? No, I can’t imagine they had filmed. You know, the original shot and there were all these other people in it who, for whatever reason, either their characters were cut or then, or they just weren’t available for the reshoots. So they couldn’t come back and they had to recast them. Heather Lang in camp was originally in it. Scott Foley, Omar Epps, skeet Aldrich, James Brolin, Corey Feldman, Eliana Douglas, like Mandy Moore. Todd: Popular famous people. Craig: Yeah. Skeet Ulrich and Heather Lang in camp and Scott Foley had all worked with a Craven in the past. You know, these were like, Cravens folks. Um, and, and they’re gone. They’re out there totally excised from the movie. And man, if those versions exist, the fans want to see these cuts, you know, release these cuts. We will, Oh my Todd: God. Somebody needs to start a Kickstarter to buy the rights to this film or something and get that original. Because also one of the maddening things about this movie, which by the way, this was the first time I’d seen it is that you read and even see credited Rick Baker as doing the special effects. And Rick Baker is a special effects. Genius. He’s you know, he’s the one who did American werewolf in London, which has I think to date. To date still the best werewolf transformation scene I’ve ever seen in any film. And one of the first things they did when that second reshoot is, they brought in a whole other team KNG or Knb to come in and redo the effects. And then the third time around, they decided they were going to just paint over. All of the Knb effects? Well, not all of them, but most of them with fricking 2005 CGI. Oh, what a shame you can go online and you can find some photos, you know, Fangoria had photo. Thank goodness for. Outlets like Fangoria entertainment tonight actually ran a story, a brief story on this film while they were shooting the first version and they interview skied all rich and whatever. It’s, it’s only like a little five minute thing, but there’s a lot of little behind the scenes footage of them shooting this movie with skeet Ulrich in it. And so, uh, it’s kind of cool to go and look at some of that stuff too. And again, You know, they decided at some point that, uh, it needed to be PG 13 instead of R so he’s Gore effects were cut entirely from the movie that they had before. And it was trimmed down and re edited to make it a little less provocative. When, you know, when they first announced the movie, Bob Weinstein said, this is going to reinvent the werewolf genre. I mean, if the original script was going to do it, I don’t think the script did it, but, uh, I mean that, might’ve been a little bit of hyperbole all the way around, but it’s certainly, I think my take. Well, overall on it is just like you said, perfectly fine movie, kind of fun. I mean, fun, entertaining hip for its time and you know, fun to watch. And it does some interesting things with werewolves and puts them in situations that we haven’t necessarily seen them in before. But that being said, it’s. It’s not reinventing the genre and it’s not, it’s a little pedestrian and predictable in some ways and the little flat in some other ways. And honestly, probably because they were their third go around. Some of the production feels a little cheap for what is supposed to be a star-studded big box office, movie, and all those things combined damage it. But you’re right. Yeah. I would love to go back and see it’s not the first time was Craven was messed with, right? Oh no, but he was. Super resentful of the process of this movie. He said, I wasted two and a half years of my life ended up with something I didn’t like. Wasn’t happy with. They cut it off to shreds. And, uh, during that time period, I could have made, he said this, he said, this will be the last time he did anything for money because they agree to pay him double his salary, uh, for this movie to convince him to do it. But he said in the two and a half years, it took for him to shoot this movie. He could have done. Two or three other movies and made more money. Anyway, the reason why his phone stopped ringing, he said is because that was quite well known. So it damaged his prospects a little bit. He got taken off of, um, a movie that he had co-written called pulse, which was a remake of a Japanese movie. That was one of another one of those things where it seems like he said he has absolutely no connection with how that turned out. It didn’t look at all like his original script and he obviously didn’t get to direct it. So bit of a toll. You know, you never know how a project’s going to end up. And this is an industry, you know, the people, the money you’re ultimately pulling the strings, you know, it’s, it’s, it’s a business first and art second, and sometimes that’s what happens, these compromises. And then we get, we get a film like this, but it’s still a lot of fun to talk about and a lot of fun to watch. So I’m really glad that we’re gonna be doing this. I’m glad you brought it up and I’m glad we. When we came around to it for 250th episode, Craig: I am too. And, you know, despite all of those things, like we’ve already said it it’s really not a bad movie. I enjoy it. There are good things going on here. It’s it’s clever, there are some funny parts. There are some silly and ridiculous parts, but it’s kind of funny too. And still, despite all of the recasting. We say this all the time. It’s so cliched, but we usually say it about the eighties, but this is really a time capsule of the early aughts, like so many famous people, like it opens up on like a. Peer or a boardwalk or something. It reminded me of the lost boys. You know, it’s the same thing. It’s just a lot of people, you know, doing their own thing, having fun. It’s crowded, it’s fun. And, um, there’s a band and the band is. Playing a modern rock version of, Hey there, little red riding hood, which I thought was, Todd: I like that song anyway. I need to bowling for soup actually is the band that’s that’s doing. Oh really? I didn’t know Craig: that them right there in the movie too. And the first thing we see. Is Portia de Rossi is a fortune teller on this boardwalk and these two girls, Jenny and Becky Jenny has played by Maya who was very famous at the time famous singer performer. And Becky is Shannon Elizabeth, who was also right at the height of her career. Gorgeous as always. And they go and see her Porsche looks at both of their hands. I see so much blood. Okay. That’s nice. But you too, you should fear. Okay. We’re done here. Come on back. Let’s go be aware of the moon. You can’t tell people this shit. It’s funny to read about the history because a lot of the scenes were in the original script, but they were at drastically different places in the script and featuring different people. Initially the Maya character was supposed to be scuttle or rich and apparently. If you look closely, there’s a point where Becky and Jenny gets separated and Becky calls out Jenny’s name. Really? She’s calling out. Vinny or whatever his name was supposed to be or Vince or whatever his name was supposed to be. And they just dubbed it over with Jenny, lots of trickery going on there. I took so many notes over the first 15 minutes, because this is one of those movies that makes a point of introducing you to all of the main characters in the first 10 mins. Yeah. So yeah, it’s kind of a lot to do take in right at the beginning, but we meet Jimmy who is played by a baby. Jesse Eisenberg. He’s so young. I don’t know if this was his first film, but it’s certainly the first thing I remember him from. He’s so young. He, I mean, he plays, yeah, he’s a teenager in high school and he looks like a teenager. He does. He meets. His love interest Brook played by Christina on a pout, which I thought her character was entirely unnecessary. Yeah, Todd: I, Craig: yeah, I did. I didn’t need her at all. Todd: I was waiting for it, some payoff with this character. She just kind of pops in and pops out and then it’s so silly at the end when she comes in. Oh, God, it’s so dumb. Craig: That was the worst part of the movie. Todd: You have to imagine that the, you know, the original script gave her more to do or had her head with her a little more significant in it. Perhaps. I Craig: think I really, her only purpose is to introduce, uh, Jimmy’s rival bow again, played by a baby Milo Ventimiglia and I like my Levin’s Famiglia and I really liked him and heroes. He’s. Still very successful. He’s on, I don’t know, some sappy, nighttime soap type. This is us, which I watched some of, uh, so I’m not making fun of it, but it is sappy. Oh, come on. You know, you watch them. I don’t, I don’t still watch it, but I did watch the whole first season and cried. Todd: I can only fit so many soaps into your day though. I understand that Craig: he’s a baby too. And Oh my God, he’s so cute. But he’s also just like the cliched bully and he’s constantly picking on Jimmy and all of his. Jabs at Jimmy or about how he’s gay. Um, and like he calls him a geek on his way to fag town and like calls up like an ass wimp, wad, like just the lamest insults. Um, but it sets up, you know, this rivalry between them, which is kind of cute and actually in the end ends up being super cute. Todd: Yeah. It leads to one of the funnier. Scenes in the movie, I think, and the movie does have quite a bit of comedy in it. That’s Craig: true. We, we ultimately meet, um, our main character Ellie, uh, played by Christina Ricci and she’s Jimmy’s older sister who they all live in Hollywood. She works on the late, late show with. Craig Kilborne pink. Yep. Okay. So I have an interesting, it’s not a connection really, but I don’t know how to else to say it. All of my life, people have said to me and to my sister, how much my sister looks like Christina Ricci or Christina Ricci looks like her. And that’s true. Todd: She could be her stunt Craig: double. I don’t know. It’s so weird. You know, I, I grew up with her, so it it’s weird for me, but watching this movie, I’m like, Oh man, they do. Okay. She’s so cute. And I love Christina Ricci and she’s still working. I wish she worked more. I, I think she’s a good actor and sh and she’s so pretty. And. Uh, anyway, but she’s the main character in this movie and she’s dating a guy named Jake played by Josh Jackson, who at the time was hugely famous for Dawson’s Creek and was kind of a heartthrob. And he plays the big heartthrob in this movie. Like he’s just beating women off with this movie. And I don’t know. I mean, he’s. He’s good looking, I guess, Todd: I guess, but I have to say it felt like that was all he was relying on because his performance was so flat. It was, you know, when we’re first introduced to him, she is, uh, swinging by his nightclub. He’s opening up a nightclub that called what talents, I guess. And it’s supposed to be, Craig: but I want to go there so bad. Oh, God, Todd: it looks amazing. It looks like it’s in an old theater and I guess it is like an old movie theater, but they’ve got it. And they’ve outfitted it with, uh, I mean like a cross between a wax museum and an Gothic castle also with conveniently with a mirror maze. And as soon as I saw them set that up, I was like, okay, no, we’re going to get a mirror, may scene in this movie. All right. I haven’t seen that five times before. And we’re not disappointed. It certainly happens. It’s Craig: mostly horror memorabilia. And I also love it. Like there, it, it looks a lot like the wax museum from Waxworks Waxworks, except way more hip and cool. And. There are displays for everything. There’s a nightmare on Elm street display with Freddy Krueger. There’s a hell raiser Friday the 13th. There’s no, Saratu like, there are just every pretty much everything you can imagine is there. And it looks. So cool. Like I want to go hang out and drink Todd: there. Yeah. They should have taken all the PR, you know, once they dress that up, they should have just left it and made it a nightclub. It, he could have made so much money. It was so cool Craig: in the original script, it was supposed to be a wax museum. And when they changed it, they just turned it into a nightclub, but they just kept the same set, which totally works for me. Um, Jake also, by the way, was originally. His character was different, but the character was a written. That was the scuttle rich character. And when they revised the script, skeet Ulrich, didn’t like the rewrites. So he dropped out of his own accord and that’s when they got Josh. Oh, Todd: he dropped out of his own accord. I didn’t realize that. Yep. Craig: Cause he didn’t like the, with the ending. I don’t want to spoil the ending yet that he didn’t like the ending. Maybe I’ll spoil it a little bit. Cause it was too similar to something that he had just recently done and yeah. Todd: Well the movie was originally about three character, like three friends or three people. Craig: Strangers, no Todd: strangers. Strangers. Yeah. Who come together over a lot of basically like a car crash and a werewolf attack. And this movie ends up mainly revolving around this woman and her brother. Yeah. And so it’s, you know, it’s, it’s very different. And I think Jesse Eisenberg, you know, came out later a few years ago and said, when he was asked about this movie, he said, yeah, he says, I don’t know what was wrong. W who had a problem with original script and why they messed it up with it so much. But now that we know what was going on in the Weinstein company at that time, it, it makes sense. There was some kind of turmoil, but he was like, uh, they just made it dumb. Like they turned me in her brother and he said the original was a lot more. Edgy, I guess is what he said. Right. And Craig: Judy Greer, who is also in this movie, she plays, uh, I don’t know if she is, she’s a sales Todd: agent. Yeah. Hey, somebody Scott bales, publicist, which is so funny because Scott bale plays himself. Craig: Yes. I only read that. This this morning, but Scott bale was supposed to be one of the main werewolves in this movie. Yeah. Cut that part out. Todd: Can you imagine, I mean that in itself actually Craig: kind of funny and in 2005, I would’ve been totally fine with it. Scott Bay on now is. Fucking douche bag, but Todd: he is, Craig: but in truth in 2005, I didn’t know that yet. Todd: What’s funny is there’s a scene in this movie that actually shows its age where she, I mean, I’m jumping ahead a little bit, but what we can come back yeah. Where she goes to a party and she meets up with Scottsdale’s agent, her agent. Like you said is, is she’s totally a ditch she’s completely pushy and out there and full of herself and really pushing, doing her job, really getting Scott bale, the kind of recognition he needs. And so she’s supposed to quote unquote, interview him before he goes on the late late show. And which just means meet up with him and kind of sort out the details. And she does this at this party and when she sits. Stone and starts talking with him. There’s a point at which he kind of starts coming on to her a little bit, Craig: but you’re a beautiful girl when you’ve got this Warrah thing happening. I just keep my finger on that when you can use your Todd: own hands. And he actually puts his hand on her. Ni which it’s so funny because he’s playing himself right today. Can you imagine an actor being willing to go on screen, playing himself, basically sexually harassing someone else in the industry? Of course they wouldn’t do that. And definitely not in the Weinstein movie. It’s such an interesting element of this film, right? Craig: Uh, yeah, I know the, I don’t know. There’s a little bit of drama. I mean, there’s not a whole lot of drama in this movie, but Jake tells Ellie that like, he just wants to take it slow or he needs time and space or something. I don’t know that whole, all the relationship stuff is just it’s. So it’s just thrown away. Like it happens in a matter of seconds. It’s it’s stupid and there are no stakes, but then we see. The LA city scape at night. And I don’t know if I noticed this the first time, but. This time. I did, even before I read about it, the lights in the cityscape of LA make a pentagram, which I thought was kind of cool. And then Ellie and Jimmy are in the car. They’re going home and they hit a deer. All good. That’s what it looks like, which causes a great big accident with. Becky Shannon Elizabeth, who they don’t know. I mean, they’re in different cars, they’re on Mulholland drive, which is notoriously dangerous and, and her car goes rolling down the Hollywood Hills. Luckily she has her seatbelt on, so she’s okay. But she’s stuck upside down in the car and Ellie runs down there. Jimmy calls the cops, but then he runs down there too. They’re trying to get her out and she’s hysterical. And Jimmy finally. Frees her from her seatbelt and from the dashboard, which is kind of pinning her in. Um, but right after she’s freed, as she’s kind of laying there in the driver’s side, what is clearly werewolf bashes in through the woods window and grabs her by the shoulder and it’s jaws and, and rips her out. But Jimmy holds onto her legs, Ellie. Grabs onto his legs and it drags them all yards away from the car before they eventually. Let go or get pulled away or whatever, but they, they basically see her get mauled and, and killed. Jimmy has a closer look because he was closer to her. Ellie doesn’t see it clearly, but when it’s all over, both Ellie and Jimmy are scratched or injured in some way. And the cops arrive. And I was so tickled to see that the cop, that interviews them was Nick Offerman. Did you notice? Todd: Yeah, Craig: I was like, Oh my God. Todd: Watson. Yeah. Yeah. Craig: It was cool. Even if, if we didn’t know that this was a werewolf movie already, which we do obviously, but Jimmy’s dog, this cue like golden. Retriever is now very wary of him. And in fact bites him and, you know, from there, I mean, what I, one thing that I do like about this movie is that they don’t waste a lot of time. Jimmy immediately starts doing research because they’re not supposed to be any wolves in the Los Angeles area. So he starts doing some research and he finds, you know, unexplained. Animal attacks. And he basically right from the beginning comes to the conclusion that it was werewolves. Todd: Yeah, he, it’s funny. I love his, you know, he’s on an, uh, one of the early IMAX he’s clicking around websites. You remember when you just used to go to websites for information, there’s a website that’s like werewolf attacks in LA and then there’s another whole website about, you know, werewolf. Yeah. But yeah, that’s cool. And then she, there’s kind of a sequence where she’s at home and. One thing that, you know, Craven does really well, I think is set up these scare sequences, right? You’re alone in the house and the wind blows in and the windows open mysteriously. And then you sneak through and the cuckoo clock scares you. And I had to roll my eyes that they happen to have this cuckoo clock on the wall. That’s like little red riding wallet. Hood thing that has a little wool jumping down, as opposed to a cuckoo over a spinning, terrified a little red riding hood, which I thought, my God, which German workshop did this old, a cuckoo clock come from, I want one so badly. And then, uh, Jake surprised us her there. And you know, this is kind of the beginning and really throughout the movie, he’s just creepy, I think, through the whole movie, because he’s so. Flat his effect is so flat. It feels like he’s hiding something or he lacks emotion somehow. And he just shows up Missy, just mysterious leader at our house. And the reason is dumb. It’s just like, Hey, I just wanted to follow up on our conversation from before and tell you that I still love you. And she. And embraces with him and then almost vampire style. You suddenly see her grow these fangs and bites into his neck and a big spurt of blood comes out of it. And then we’re barraged with these images, just random, crazy freaky images and boom. She wakes up. And she’s in bed and I’m thinking, did that really happen? Did it not happen? And when we see Jake later as though nothing ever happened, I thought, Oh, okay. I guess that was a dream sequence. And I’m still to this moment kind of puzzled as to when that dream sequence started. I don’t know if that was just, Craig: I think it was a dream and in the dream, she turns. Into a werewolf, of course. But I also read that a lot of those, you know, it’s just like flashes of various images. And I read that a lot of those images were taken from the various shoots that they did. Like those had been actual parts of scenes and some of the shoots and they just reuse them for the dream sequence or whatever. Um, but right after that, Jimmy wakes up naked outside, which is classic werewolf. Yeah. Todd: I love that actually, bunny, the neighbor’s watering his lawn and looks over and he gets them. He does an amazing job of like, he’s done it a thousand times of scaling. His house from the outside instead of just running in the front and getting up to a second story window leaps into the window without, without once showing his junk. And that was a feat that, that probably required multiple retakes to get that one. Craig: It was cute. It was, it was like he was naked and it was, it was too cute to even be hot, like, Aw, Yeah Todd: like this, I think it’s the next scene where he, uh, he, you know, she wakes up she’s downstairs. They’re kind of, he comes back in and he kind of starts talking to her and telling her, uh, you know, I think this is about werewolf ism or something like that. She’s like, Oh, you’re crazy. And all this stuff, and they’re, they’re chatting back and forth in the whole time they’re talking, he has casually pulled a Tupperware container out of the. Fridge, which clearly has raw meat in it, but he’s eating it as though it was just cold cuts and even sits down at the table at one point, dumped some salt on it. It’s just eating it. And I’m waiting for this moment where she’s going to look appalled or like, do you realize what you’re doing? Or, you know, this is going to be called attention to in the moral of the movie. And not only does that not happen, but a couple of times she leans over and takes a couple of pieces and eats it before she ends up leaving. Like neither of them even notice that this is weird. And I thought that was such a, in a dumber movie that would, you know, again, that would have happened. What I predicted would have happened. And instead of this movie, it’s just a funny bit, that’s allowed to continue. Craig: I thought it was lunch meat, but whatever, either it was pretty funny that was Rami. All right. Then she’s at work, you know, at Craig Kilborn or whatever. And we meet Joanie, Judy Greer, who we’ve talked about before. We’ve recently talked about her. Cause she was in Halloween 2018. I said it then, and I’ll say it now. Judy Greer is an underrated actress. She is in so much. She works all the time. I love her. I think she’s great to be fair. She often plays very similar characters. And in this movie, she’s very, very similar to her character in 13, going on 30, which is a very cute movie. I don’t only watch horror movies. I also like cute girl. Yeah. 13 going on 30 is adorable. And she’s really funny in it. But she’s a bitch and it’s, it’s like, that’s they just establish like, okay, hi, I’m Joanie, I’m a bitch. Um, and she basically tells Ellie that her boyfriend is a ho. I heard that you’re dating Jake Taylor. Is that true? I hope it’s nothing serious. Why not? I guess it was only a matter of time before he got to you. He always did prefer the former role. Okay. Well, I’ll see you tonight, Johnny. I’m only saying this because I care. Is there anything else, Johnny? No. Tonight don’t be late. Who are you and why are you? But then she’s just, she’s sitting there talking to somebody. I think she’s. Talking to nice guy, Kyle, there’s just this random, nice Todd: guy. Kyle Kyle is, is great in the movie. He’s the guy, his face. He looks like he’s halfway through the transformation into being aware. Well, you know what I mean? It’s like a little tall, it’s kind of Bodie and a muscular and just very chiseled, but also just a little too tall and a little too wide. His nose is a little prominent and he looks good. Don’t get me wrong. But yeah. He’s definitely a, I feel like I would see him working out in the gym more often than I’d see him running around the late, late with Craig Kilborne and it’s so cute because Craig, you know, the middle, he meets her, they have all this witty dialogue. Right. Cause obviously he’s good friends with Ellie and the first thing he says as well. Uh, Scott bales publishes is coming by. She’s a bitch. And then Scott bales publicist comes by. And basically now that she’s a bitch, and then afterwards he pops in and says to her, well, she was a real bitch. Wasn’t she? It feels like, yeah, she was a bit, this really gets hammered home in case it wasn’t obvious, basically all Kyle has to do for most of the movie. Craig: Um, but while she’s standing there talking to him, she’s like, okay, What smells so good. Oh, geez. Smell that. He’s like, no, I don’t smell anything. And she goes, literally sniffing around the office dogs. So she’s like, Dog like, and I love Christina Ricci. And I actually think that this was like her, her body movements. Like she’s moving, like she’s sniffing something out. I loved it. And she ends up in the bathroom and I was so afraid that she was going to be smelling somebody period. Paint. Gotcha. Todd: Shoving her nose up in some woman’s crotch. Craig: It ends up being a girl’s nose bleed. So, you know, obviously she’s, you know, smelling blood things are changing. The movie does not make any effort to try to hide from us. What is happening, it’s directly in your face. They are turning into werewolves. We know this moving Todd: on and on, honestly, this is one thing that for me actually made the movie a little tedious. I wouldn’t say I ever got bored with the movie, but I would say that there were times when I was like, okay, like I got it right there. Turning into werewolves. Of course they smell of bloods bothering them. They’re feeling weird. Fingernails are growing, whatever like that, like yeah. This, this kind of stuff is so well trod before that. I didn’t need to see it play out so deliberately and dramatically through this movie. And there were some ways in which it was cute and it was fun. Maybe a slightly new take on things, but there were other ways like this, you know, I was just like, Oh, okay. You know, I too much of it bogged down. I think the pace of the film, Craig: I, I think that’s fair. I actually kind of appreciated it because I feel like in other movies, Like an American werewolf in London, which by the way is no comparison. That that is a great, great. Movie. Um, but why toy with your audience? We know this is a werewolf movie. Like just, I understand what you’re saying. Maybe it was a little much, but I appreciated the fact that it wasn’t trying it wasn’t there was, there’s no mystery. We know what’s happening. So why try to treat it like a mystery to me Todd: that that is kind of toying with the audience a little bit. It’s not toying, but it’s it’s I don’t want to say I was insulted, but I was like, I wasn’t surprised at any of this. These weren’t big surprise moments for me. Oh, she smells. Blood. Okay. Oh, they’re eating raw meat. Okay. She’s feeling sick and has to go to the bathroom. And there’s kind of this really long scene where she’s in there and she flashes werewolf eyes, you know, again, I’m glad they weren’t trying to hide it from us. Like we didn’t know, but in the other hand it was like, it felt like it was padding for time. It didn’t really advance the plot as far as I’m concerned. I mean, by now, even they kind of realized that they’re werewolves or at least I think so. Right. It’s not at this point. That she’s convinced that she’s a werewolf, but I think a few more of these episodes go down after she knows, like she doesn’t need any further proof. Right. But we still have to see these episodes happen Craig: anyway. Yeah, I get it. I don’t know. It, it didn’t bother me. I thought it was fine. And that’s one of the things that I liked about the movie is that it’s, it’s fast paced. It doesn’t slow down. It moves. You know, I have a very limited attention span, so that’s. Always good for me. Um, that my next note is Jimmy goes to Sunnydale because he attends the same high school that Buffy did and that all the nine Oh two one Oh kids did, and Beau’s addicted to him again and throws more homophobic shit at him again. And that girl Todd: is. Making eyes at him that girls could see Craig: Bob blah, that girl, whatever we get that rooftop party, which is like a pita benefit or something. And that’s where LA talks to Scott bale and women are just dripping off of. Her boyfriend Jake. And one of those women is Jenny Maya, who we saw in the opening scene and she ends up getting attacked by a werewolf in the parking garage, uh, after she leaves, which was a great scene. It is a great scene except for the shitty, Oh man, I’m very Kersey today. Sorry. Except for the crappy CGI. And I so desperately would love to see the practical stuff if it exists. But, um, she gets chased around. It is it’s a very tense scene and she’s very clever in this scene, like in the way that she hides from the werewolf far more clever than I would be. Well, Todd: I like that. And you know, that’s, again, that’s kind of a hallmark of West Craven’s movies in general. Female protagonists are not stupid. You know, I mean, she’s not a protagonist, she’s just a character in the way, but she’s not doing really stupid things. She actually has some smarts and is not just going to sit around and be a victim. And that was fun. That that’s what made that scene interesting to me actually was I felt, I knew she’s going to get eaten. It was entirely predictable, but it was fun to see, you know, that go down and. I think some of these shots were actually practical, mostly close of, I think the werewolf’s face clock kind of reaches in. You can kind of tell that, no, this isn’t CGI. This is, this is an actual practical thing, but then it goes full on full body. He’s leaping from car to car and it’s like, yeah, Craig: it’s pretty bad. And it, you know, it’s early 2000 CGI, so it looks like a video game and there’s nothing wrong with video games, but it doesn’t look real. In this motion picture. No, Todd: but you know, ends up in an elevator. And I thought that elevator scene was staged. I mean, how many horror movie scenes have we seen in a, in an elevator? Right. But this one I thought was pretty unique. I mean, she makes it in there, the doors close, but because the creature as it’s kind of going up. To the second floor bangs the elevator door from the other side, it deforms it enough that it won’t go up any further and it kind of stops and it opens a little bit at the bottom. And so there’s this opening where he can reach in and lunge at her, but he can’t get in all the way. And I think. I think that was all mostly practical. You know, I think that was a guy in a suit, but it still looked pretty good, but then, you know, he disappears and then you realize he’s up there on the second floor and there’s a little crack that he can get through. I, I really liked that elevator scene a lot. I was impressed. And apparently this was one of these scenes that got cut from the R her death was going to be super gory. I think her torso ripped in half. Stuff like that, that doesn’t even show up apparently on the R rated version. Uh, that’s on available on DVD, but you can see a shot of it, I think, from an old Fangoria magazine. So that’s how we kind of know that Craig: existed. Jimmy does more research and finds that. People who are werewolves are cursed and they have the Mark of the beast on their hand. And it’s just like five dots on their hand that can be connected to, to make a pentagram, Todd: right. Which he does, which he plays with a Craig: marker to make sure. Ellie has them too. And like weird things are going on. Like dogs are gathering outside of their house and Jimmy howls at them and they run away. Blah-blah-blah the next scene that I really like is Jimmy goes into the gym and is flirting with. The girl that he likes, I don’t remember his name. Bo’s girlfriend and Bo confronts him. I don’t remember who lays down the challenge, but challenges him to wrestle or try out for the team or whatever. And Jimmy, Russell’s another guy first and it’s like, it’s kind of like Spiderman. Like it takes him a little while to like, realize. What he, what he’s capable of, but eventually once he does, he kicks that guy’s butt. And then he wrestles bow and kicks his butt too. And he says something in front of the girlfriend. Oh, you really becoming transparent. We’ll have it a little identity intervention. Okay. Because all this is internalized homophobia is just giving you a way. But anyway, he wrestles bow and really a kind of silly scene. Like he kind of turns into like a professional Todd: wrestler WWF. Kind of Craig: throwing them around and blah, blah, and basically cakes is, but that’s great. That’s cool. I liked it. It was funny. It felt like a Spiderman kinda thing. Ellie is at work and she’s very much on edge, but people are also. People are also making note of how hot both of them are getting the Ellie and the brother was cool, which is kind of funny, but she Tiffts with Joanie over. Scott bale. Todd: I can’t believe you’re saying these things. Right Craig: know, and then she kind of wolfs out in the bathroom and just in the eyes, but one of her coworkers see Todd: or whatever. Yeah. Well, don’t forget. There’s a, you know, as she walks into the office, apparently. Again, coincidentally and highly conveniently. One of Craig Kilborn’s next sequences or whatever is going to be on psychics or something. And so there’s a bunch of, she walks in, says what’s with all the gypsies and it’s all these women dressed up as psychics. And of course, one of them is this same woman that we saw earlier at the boardwalk scene, who immediately looks up at her and runs towards her and chases her into a room. Pulls up her hand and just says, you’re cursed by the beast and you need to be careful and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And Kyle, nice guy, Kyle does his duty and comes in. All right. All right. Let’s pull you out of here. And Kyle says he goes away. One of the, one of the funniest lines in this whole movie, just it’s, it’s just in the background. It’s kind of blink if you miss a lie, but he goes. Shouldn’t you psychically know when you’re annoying someone, but I had forgotten about that. Also. It gets hilarious that, okay. First of all, it’s kinda dumb that that psychic happens to also be there. But the other thing is like Ellie just hears her say these things, which are so pertinent to her situation and what she’s going through right then that she’s. Not at all interested in chasing that woman down and learning more. Craig: Yeah. She blows her off in a scene that they probably could have caught cut. Jimmy goes to talk to Jake. Like I don’t even get the sense that Jake and Ellie have been together that long. So why her little brother would have gone to talk to him. I’m not sure, but he goes and tells him. That he thinks they’re werewolves. Todd: And what special knowledge would he think that he has just cause he’s setting up all four. Craig: I mean, ultimately it is a set up, which is why I think that they kept it, but it’s, it’s stupid. Um, but Jake kind of blows them off zipper. The dog turns into a werewolf too, because he had bitten Jimmy that night prized Todd: me. I didn’t see that. I, it Craig: surprised me too. And the CGI doesn’t look good, but I loved that sequence, Todd: nonetheless, because I actually thought that Jimmy might eat the dog. Yeah. All about this meat and the dogs got it. And Jimmy’s kind of creeping under the table and he’s upset at the dog and having the meat. And I thought, Oh dude, is he going to take a bite out of this dogs? But Craig is going to hate them. Craig: I know. Cause it was a really. Sweet dog, but one of my favorite parts and it’s so cliche, Beau shows up on Jimmy’s doorstep and is like all of those things you said to me in the gym, how did you know? It turns out that boat is gay and he tries to kiss. Jimmy and this, it should be so offensive and stupid, but Milo Ventimiglia is so cute. It’s delivery of it. I’m like I forgive you for being a. Dick. You’re cute. Let’s make out. Um, but they don’t and Jimmy’s like, no, you don’t get it. Like, I’m a werewolf. And Bo’s like, okay, whatever. He’s like, seriously, like you’re, you’re not into me. It’s just because I’m the beast. And like, I’ve got this. Crazy sexual magnetism in bows, like EA you do zipper the, the werewolf dog, like kind of attacks them. So they, they escape in a Bose car. I don’t remember where Ellie is. I think she’s at work, but she gets in her car and Jake confronts her and he smacks his hand on her window and we see that he has. The marks on his hands too, which Todd: I knew. I mean, you could see that from a Craig: mile away. I know. Well, I feel like they tried to project it because like his character is worthless, otherwise like yeah, exactly has nothing else to do. Todd: Like he keeps popping up and just in pointless scenes. Right, Craig: right. And so, uh, she stabs him with a car key and runs away. And then it’s the night of the big open. Beginning of the club, the horror themed club or whatever, and Bo and Jimmy sneak in as part of Lance bass, 2005 Todd: had to smile. Craig: Jimmy Bo and Jake all end up in the mirror. Maze. Jake and Ellie ended up together and he’s trying to convince her that he’s not the bad guy. He says, there’s another one like me. I don’t know who it is, but it’s trying to get to me. He says I was born with this curse and I know how to control it. And then in my notes, I have blah-blah-blah. I love you. Todd: Exactly which has played out conveniently in this mirror, maze that you can pop into as part of this very packed nightclub conveniently at this moment only has the three of them in it. Craig: But a werewolf breaks through the mirror and it’s going after Ellie Bo gets attacked. And I said, killed question Mark. Wasn’t sure. And then the werewolf just busts out into the party in general and. Everybody runs away, but Ellie and Jimmy get trapped in there. Like they, somebody drops the security gate or something. And so they’re trapped in there. There’s a little fake out where they think that nice guy Kyle was the werewolf, but then he ends up getting killed. Um, and then the reveal is that the real werewolf. Is bitchy Joanie. Todd: I didn’t see that coming. She Craig: caught werewolf ism from Jake because they had had a fling. And she said, I guess I got a little too rough. Okay. I’ll know what that means, but whatever. And there’s a cute one where Joanie and Ellie kind of catfight for a minute. And, uh, Ellie peppers, Fraser, and runs away. Then Jake confronts, Joni. Um, but she can’t, her whole objective is that she wants him. So she’s taking out all of her comments and she can’t kill him because it’s been established that if you break the bloodline right. Like everybody who’s been turned by that werewolf will be cured or whatever. So she can’t attack him. Todd: This was one of the biggest disappointments of the movie. Joanie goes to her transformation and it’s the first time we’ve ever seen a full werewolf transformation in this movie. And that is what these movies are about. You know, that’s. The centerpiece. That’s what we’re looking for. And it’s all CGI and it looks like a fricking cartoon. It doesn’t look good. It’s just so disappointing. And I would love to have seen what that actually would have been like, you know, with under Rick Baker. And in this point, you know, they have this big battle sequence I think, running around, which is fun. Yeah. It’s just what that CGI werewolf, most of the time, and then kind of bouncing around and stuff. I dunno. I was just kind of waiting for it to end. Really. I was surprised there were still almost. 20 minutes left in the movie. At this point, I thought we were coming up five. Right. And eventually it’s over the police show up Craig: the police Burstyn they’re like, where’s the animal. Jimmy is like, she’s up there somewhere. Cause she had jumped up on like to a second level balcony or something. He’s like it’s a werewolf and the cops look at them funny. They’re like, uh, okay, can you give us any other description? And Christina Ricci? It’s so funny. Funny, like, I think she’s intentionally doing it to try to taunt. Oh yes. And fat thighs and bad skin. Joanie is a werewolf full werewolf jumps out. It’s the open-end says liar and flips them off. Oh, my God. I thought it was so funny and the cops shoot her like a bazillion times and she falls on the floor. Jimmy’s like, you have to cut off her head. And she pops up and a cop shoots her several times in the head. Christina Ricci’s like is she’s dead. And Jimmy’s like, well, her brain’s all over the floor. So I’m guessing Todd: that’s the end. That’s good enough. Craig: And it turns out she is dead. Bo is alive in the maze we find out, but Jake is missing now, honestly like you, I thought, Oh, isn’t this over? Like, Joni’s the big, bad guy. They killed her kind of anticlimactically but it’s over right. New Ellie and Jimmy go home. The house is all trashed because the werewolf dog tore it up or whatever, and they think it’s over, but it’s still the full moon and it’s nearing midnight. And we see like their veins kind of become dark and visible. And this silver PI server that Ellie tries to pick up from the floor burns her hands. So. They’re not cured. They think they would be because they think that Joanie was the one that started all this. Right. But then Jake shows up and suddenly he’s a douche and suddenly he’s a douche. And this that’s why ski Dale rich rich left because he thought that it was too similar to the end of scream, where, you know, the heroine’s boyfriend in the very last moment and ends up being the bad guy. Um, and he’s right. It’s the same. It’s Todd: exactly the same. Craig: I don’t know that I would have left a movie over it, but I can understand why he would be irritated. You know, like this isn’t what I signed up for. I wouldn’t have signed up for it if I would’ve known that I was just going to be doing the same thing again. But Ellie and Jimmy both kind of start to go through. The change. And so Ellie and Jake fight, they all fight. Todd: Yeah. It’s kind of long. Craig: Well, it is, but I kind of liked it. You know, Jake wants to be with Ellie, but he says he’s going to kill Jimmy because there can only be one alpha male. They all fight all three of them. There’s a cool part where Jimmy crawls around on the ceiling using his werewolf claws. I liked that Ellie ends up stabbing Jake with the silver PI server in the heart. And then she. Cuts off his head with a shovel, which is another scene that they drastically cut, uh, for the PG 13, but then unexplainably his body combusts. And that’s pretty much it. And then there’s this, the ending was dumped that that’s my biggest complaint about the movie is. The last five minutes or so stupid zipper comes home, which that made me happy. Doug’s but he comes home because Brooke brought him on Brooke is the lame girl who has no purpose in the movie. And now like she’s enamored with Jimmy and she kisses him. Like they don’t even know each other, but all right, let’s kiss whatever. And Bo’s there too, as though he’s delivering his. Your Todd: old friend, Jimmy, he’s handing her off like a father in a wedding. It’s so weird. And there’s been no romance. My God. Why was the scene there? Craig: Bo Bo hugs, Jimmy, like they’re bros now. Like, and again, if not for the actor, if not for Milo Ventimiglia. I would have hated this, but he’s just so cute and charming. I just couldn’t. I was like, good. I’m glad you’re friends now, but they, they all go off like, Oh, well we killed the werewolf. Let’s go get some pizza or whatever. And Ellie’s like, that’s fine. I’ll stay home and clean. V. And that, that, that last four or five minutes was so corn ball. I did not care for it at all. However, up to that part, I found it to be a fun ride. It was fast paced. The actors and characters were likable. It just had. I don’t know how to describe it. Those movies from. The early aughts, those horror movies from the early aughts scream. I know what you did last summer, urban legend. They had a very distinct cinematic look. And this movie has that. Exactly. And maybe it’s nostalgia. Maybe it wouldn’t work today. I don’t know, but I enjoyed it and I enjoyed the movie Todd: overall. Yeah, I enjoyed it. I thought it was fun too. And I, I basically agree with everything you said. We sat all at the beginning of the podcast, to be honest, if you want to go back and you even want to read the original script, you can do that. You can just go online and search for it. Uh, and there are people out there who have also summarized it. So you can read through all of it. It’s very different from this. And again, I don’t think it would have revolutionized the genre even in its original form, but it sounded so much more interesting and complex. And edgy and with more interesting characters. So I joined you and hoping that someday somebody is going to dig this up and put out there what we know exists so that we can see this in Craig: its original form. Yeah. Yeah, I agree. Todd: But here we are on our 250th episode at the end. We just really are grateful of the fact that we’re able to do this every week and that you, our listeners, some of you have been with us from the very beginning and it’s super flattering. We started out doing this for ourselves, but we learned as we went through it that we really feed off of the feedback from our listeners. We love getting requests. We love on our Facebook page and on our website hearing you guys. Just kind of shoot back your opinions about the movies that we’ve done and where you differed from us and where you agreed with us and just your enthusiasm keeps us going and has kept us going all these four or five years now. And, uh, we just want to thank you so much for that and we hope we can continue to do it. Craig: Yep. You stole my thunder. I was going to say the exact same thing, so I won’t say it again, but I concur very grateful to all of you. So, uh, thank you for listening and, uh, we’re going to be around. For awhile as always same old spiel, you can find us everywhere. Google to guys in a chainsaw podcast. We’re on pretty much any platform you can think of. Visit our Facebook page, visit our website. Talk to us, leave the search review. If you feel so inclined. We always love to hear from you. And, you know, we are thinking about trying to incorporate some new stuff into our repertoire as well. So maybe there’ll be some new stuff to look forward to, but until that time I’m Craig and I’m Todd with Two Guys and a Chainsaw. The post Cursed appeared first on 2 Guys & A Chainsaw.
58 minutes | 3 months ago
A bloody-good time. This Wes Craven-produced short franchise is a special-effects extravaganza with a fun villain and an interesting premise: What would happen if you awakened a modern-day genie who wasn't so blue and friendly? Expand to read episode transcript Automatic Transcript Wishmaster (1997) Episode 249, 2 Guys and a Chainsaw Craig: Hello and welcome to another episode of Two Guys and a Chainsaw. I’m Craig. Todd: And I’m Todd. Craig: We decided though we have a growing list of requests to just kind of do something random. And in fact, this was just something that crossed my mind, actually, you know, we hadn’t picked anything. Uh, since the last time we talked and I happened to have this movie on DVD. So I knew that it would be easy for us to come by. Todd: So laziness basically brought us to here. Craig: Pretty much. Okay. I mean, and so most of my decisions are made, frankly, but, uh, we decided to do 1997’s Wishmaster. Yes. I was just thinking, you know, We had talked about when we did Scream, how we had really hit most of the major franchises. And then I thought about that statement and I thought, you know, there are really quite a few that we haven’t done. I mean, we haven’t done any Candyman. We haven’t done any Leprechaun. I, gosh, I don’t know :eprechaun. I don’t know if we’re ever going to get into that. Hey, I want to do. Todd: I’m I’m really jonesing for Leprechaun in Space. Craig: I don’t think I’ve ever seen Leprechaun in Space. I’ve seen the most of them. I don’t think I’ve seen that one. Wish master was a franchise in the late nineties and early two thousands. And. I saw them all and they played some of them on, uh, cable television, quite a bit there for awhile, especially the third and fourth ones, because I think that the third and fourth ones premiered on cable, I don’t think they even were straight to video. I think that they were cable movie. Fair. But the, uh, first one came out in 1997 and I remembered liking it. Or at least I thought I remembered liking it, but I thought, Oh, you know, this is one of those stupid movies. That’ll be fun to goof on. And so I recommended it and I sat down to watch it. The first thing that pops up when you pop this movie on is West Craven presents, which I had completely forgotten. Um, I had no idea that he was an executive producer on this movie. And so right from the beginning, I’m like, Oh, wow, well, that’s, that’s pretty cool. And then as I was watching it, I was, my thought was, this is really not a bad movie. Like there’s actually quite a bit of cool stuff going on here. And I completely forgotten that it is chock full of. Excellent horror movie cameos. My God. Todd: It sure is. Craig: And so I was really pleasantly surprised. Now it’s not a perfect movie and I will be more than happy to tell you the things that I took issue with. Um, but over all, I was really kind of really pleasantly surprised to revisit this is this. A movie that you had seen Todd? Yeah, I Todd: had seen it. I had seen it probably about the time it came out. I think I probably rented it on DVD somewhere in the, when I was in college. Uh, probably around 97. So yeah, I I’d seen it before and I remembered a couple big scenes. The big showpiece scenes, basically of the movie being pretty wild and crazy, but it didn’t really stick in my head as a movie. Like, yeah. Let’s, you know, let’s, let’s keep this one in rotation. It really kinda came and went and then I didn’t keep up at all with the rest of the series. So I didn’t even know. They’re like, gosh, they’re like five of them, right? Five or six or four 4k. Yeah. So at least, yeah. I didn’t even know there was more than two. So, uh, it seems like, uh, they were, they were pumping them out in short succession after this, like every year or two after this for the next few years. And then it kinda stopped. I think they were probably trying to get. Another iconic horror movie villain going right, like another Freddy Krueger or Jason or something with this. Uh, I’ve seen people reference him as almost like a cross between pinhead and Freddy Kruger. He’s got that. The wish master has that wit about him, that Freddy Kruger kind of has that malevolence, but also that dead serious kind of, well, actually his look isn’t too far off from the center bite. Look. Really true. And the fact that he comes from another world, the, the, the space between worlds, basically as this mythical gin character, the evil genie, the more, uh, in keeping with the actual Persian legends of the genie as being a malevolent type, a trickster spirit, instead of a goofy, fun, happy, happy guy, like a Latin or one time, which came out around this time, too. So, you know, it, it’s a, it’s an interesting take on that. And I was also surprised to see so many, so many cameos, I guess, to now watching this, uh, at 41 years old, having seen so many horror movies and being come very used to these faces. I probably recognized a lot more faces now than I did when I was watching it in 1996. Oh Craig: gosh. Yeah, I definitely did. I, there were several times I’m like, Oh, I know who that guy who was, that guy is somebody I would have to look them up. That’s right, right. So it was directed by Robert Kurtzman, who hasn’t done a ton as in terms of directing, but he’s a really well-established makeup guy. Uh, he did makeup on from dusk till Dawn Gerald’s game, the haunting of Hill house. Dr. Sleep tusk. Some, some really big stuff, even, you know, Up to current day. Todd: Well, he started out on night of the creeps, which we’ve done moved to Phantasm two. He did intruder clearly here with evil dead two and intruder. He, he crossed paths with the Raimi pigs and Sam Raimi actually is the one who recommended him to direct this movie. As a matter of fact, and Ted Raimi of Sam’s brother plays a cameo role in this as Craig: well. Yup. And it was written by a guy named, uh, Peter Atkins, who I didn’t recognize a lot of his work, but he got his start in a theater group in Canada, I think with Clive Barker and Doug Bradley because of his association with the two of them, then he did some work on some of the Hellraiser movies. So, you know, these are folks that may not have some of the prominence of some of the directors and writers that we’ve talked about, but certainly have worked with some of the big guys in the genre. And it’s just, it’s a pretty simple story, really. I mean, it opens up, we see this like Alchemist or wizard or something, making a gemstone. Uh, and it was really reminiscent to me of the opening scene of nightmare on Elm street. One where Freddie was making his glove, like it’s all close closeup and you just kind of see the process. And then we get this script on screen. One weeks, a gym shall be given three wishes upon the grounding of the third. The unholy legions of the gin. So there’ll be free DePaul in the earth and all the gene. I didn’t realize until after I’d watched the movie and I was going back to research it that the narrator is Angus Scrimm. Who of course. We are huge fans of, so like you said, it is the source of our kind of genie legend. Um, but again, much more malevolent than it’s become, uh, in our culture. Todd: It seems to be a very, um, Low bar to a cross there. I mean, you only have to make a third wish and then basically the world is over and the gin takeover, right? Like throughout history, everyone’s only gotten as far as to, I mean, wow. That’s pretty impressive. Craig: Yeah. I don’t know. I mean, I feel like the SQL’s explore this more because it’s not like this gin is the only one in existence. There are other ones too, but I don’t know. How the others are accessed. You know, this one eventually becomes trapped in this gym, which then it’s, it’s like the genie in the lamp, I guess somehow you have to summon it or whatever. It’s, it’s, it’s a little bit nebulous, but. Whatever it doesn’t matter. The opening scene is in Persia and 1127 AB and I just thought this opening scene just really set the bar super high for the movie. I mean, it’s like in this courtyard kind of thing, I guess, and the gin. Basically just slaughters this entire courtyard full of people. And this is an effects movie. I mean, that’s what the movie is really, really all about. It’s these effects in there. I would say probably 95% practical. And in this opening scene, you’ve got this, Jen slaughtering, all these people, but in these, it’s not like he’s just running around with a sword, disemboweling people. I mean, it’s all just this really creative stuff. Like yeah. One lady turns into a tree. Some other guy’s intestines are like bursting out of him and biting and attacking him a skeleton breaks out of this guy’s skin. And then is running around killing other people. One guy turns into a snake. I mean, it’s just this huge effects driven scene and it, and everything that follows, I just thought looked. Fantastic. I just thought it was great. Like this is, this is so up my alley, these practical effects, I was just stoked from the get-go. Well, yeah, when Todd: your director is, is basically running the special effects from his own special effects house, you would hope it would be that good. Right. And Greg Nicotero is also, was also on his crew at this time and eventually split off to do his own thing. But Greg Nicotero also re you know, runs a lot of really great special effects for a lot of films, including. Oh, the walking dead. He’s the lead effects guy on the walking dead series. So the, the, I would say the only problem I had, well, the first, the first part of the movie is great. Like you said, it’s just an excuse to raid the effects shop for everything that you can find and try all these different things out. It was just everything, but the kitchen sink. And then we kind of come back to that at the end of the movie as well. And then you write throughout the movie, we get a lot of very detailed Gore effects. I mean, one every five or six minutes, it seems like. And so that makes, they make sure that the deaths are really gory and really creative. And that part of it’s good. I did feel like it really threw him in your face. Like it really lingered. It was a very, um, exploitive movie in that way. Just the Gore was. And the Gore effects were really front and center. So if that’s something that you like then, yeah. I mean, this is like a whole issue of Fangoria could be devoted to this movie and maybe was, but then again, the fact effects sometimes seem to just sort of overtake the movie. It almost seems to be the point of the movie at times. And I know I got a little weary. I know that sounds crazy, right? Like it should be just like. Like bring it on. But for me after a little while, I got a little weary of all of it. The, the long lingering closeups of the Gore and the, you know, splitting of heads and things exploding and stuff like that. It felt like a bit much to me at Craig: times. Yeah. I don’t know. I mean, maybe I was just in the mood for it or maybe it was, you know, some latent nostalgia. I don’t know, but I, I just, uh, I was down for it. I thought it was really cool. And, and just because it was so the craft of it, it was done so well. And, and just so many, like you said, I mean, it’s just one after the other and had they been. Effectively done then. Yeah, I definitely would have been rolling my eyes at it, but it just felt so skillful. I mean, they were fun to watch. They looked great. And I’ve said this before, but the, the older I get for whatever reason, super. Realistic like body horror, like a lot of blood and that kind of stuff. It gets to me more than it used to it. Didn’t used to bother me at all. Um, but this, I mean, it’s fantasy it’s fantasy. No, you go ahead and it’s fun. Todd: Good. As the special effects are, the practical effects are the visual effects, definitely show their age and it’s a shame really. For those to be juxtaposed in here at times, it kind of cheapens the movie a little bit, but it’s just more of a product of its time at this time. I think they were really still experimenting with CGI and some of the CGI in this movie is really pretty lame. But you know, aside from that, like you said, the practical stuff is quite good. Right? Craig: I agree with you. I mean, the, the visual effects, aren’t amazing, but they’re kind of few and far between, uh, at least as compared to the practical effects. And so I was willing to forgive some of that. But anyway, in this opening scene, uh, we see the gin, the gin is played by Andrew div off, who I think just slays in this role. Uh he’s he’s got this kind of sinister look. The, the man, the actor has kind of this sinister look, he’s got these piercing eyes. Andrew DevOps has been in a million things, but it hasn’t really establish. The level of fame where people are like, Oh yeah, that guy, you know, he plays smaller roles. Uh, most of the time I remember him, he was in a movie sometime in the nineties, I think called toy soldiers. And it had, um, Wil Wheaton. And who’s the guy from, he played the best friend in Lord of the rings. I can’t think of his name. He’s in the Goonies. Uh, Sean Austin. Yeah. Sean Aston and Todd: Oh God Lou Gossett Jr. Right? Wasn’t Craig: he in that? Yeah. Yeah, he was, it wasn’t this movie. I don’t think made much of an impact, but I always liked it as a kid because it was one of those buddy movies. Like these teenage boys, like. You know, fighting against bad guys. And those kinds of movies were always. Cool to me. He was in that. I remember him from that. He was also an air force one. He was in loss. He’s had an established career. He’s just not like an Atlas star, but he’s, he’s great in this role. And he has a great voice and they have him, you know, when he, he does. Play like a human version of the character, but for the most part, he’s in this practical makeup, uh, that apparently took about, I think three and a half hours to put on every day and an hour and a half to take off something like that, which, you know, I’ve heard of other movies where the makeup takes. Significantly longer than that, but it looks really good and he’s, I don’t know how to describe him. He’s just monstrous. And he’s got like, kind of almost these long flesh and bone kind of pony, tail things coming out of his head. And, um, he’s very defined as far as bone structure and he’s got these crazy colored eyes. He looks great, but he’s like, Talking to this Prince of Persia or King of Persia or whatever. And all this mayhem is going on all around by all the names of God. This is not what I wanted. Then we should away it sorted one. We shit away. No one wishes. I pick your majesty silence. But by poor people, I must do you wish to hate on the entire world? No, my wishes please. That I won’t and you without. Oh my my wish is all this creature needs and the wizard somehow traps the gin in this red stone. Um, I think they call it like a blood Opal or something later on. And then we cut to America in the present day where a man named Raymond Beaumont played by Robert England is an art collector or like an artifact collector or something like Todd: that to some rich, rich guy, rich asshole. Craig: Right. And, uh he’s and he plays that. Well quite well. Yeah. I’ve heard that Robert England is a really, really nice friendly guy, but he plays the sinister asshole role very well. And he’s, you know, like rubbing his hands together. Like I’ve waited 10 years for this. Yeah. And this big crate that’s like coming off a ship and, uh, his assistant is Ted Raimi. Who, you know, the Raimi brothers are filmmakers for the most part, but we’ve seen Ted Raimi and other movies too. But, uh, as it happens, the Workman who is operating the crane that is unloading this artifact. His drunk, uh, his drinking and his drunk, any spills, his drink on the controls, which causes them to shush, uh, short out and it drops the crate drops and crushes, Ted Raimi, and, uh, the statues shatters. And we, the audience see that inside this statue is this Jim, um, that we had seen before. And one of the random dock workers takes it and apparently takes it to a pawn shop because we see this pawn shop guy, bring it in to some business for appraisal. And this is where our main character Alexandra. Works. And I guess this is kind of what she does. She appraises stuff. The main girl is played by a lady named. Tammy Lauren, not to be confused with the hideous, Tommy Lauren, but, um, and, and I, you know, she’s, she’s just kind of a recognizable face, but that may just be because she’s just kind of a generic, pretty lady, I guess. I mean, she’s, she’s done tons of TV. She had a big stint on young and the restless, she was on home improvement. She’s done tons of stuff, but nothing that I specifically remembered her for. And I’ll go ahead and say, That my biggest complaint about this movie is that our heroine is not particularly engaging. There’s, there’s nothing wrong with her. She’s not a bad actress. She’s fine. And she’s a beautiful woman. It’s just, well, for whatever reason, I just didn’t really. Connect with her that much. And that’s, you know, some of the heroines in these horror movies are not even great actors, but there’s just something about them. Like for example, Heather laying in camp and the night run Elm street movies, Heather lay-in camp is not an amazing actress. She’s not, but. For whatever reason, I just find her very endearing and I like her and I care about her and she really carries the weight of some of those movies on her shoulders. And I just didn’t get that. And I feel bad saying it because she didn’t do anything wrong. She’s fine. But I just didn’t connect with her very much. Well, Todd: she doesn’t have much to do. I mean, for most of the movie, she’s just hanging around, getting visions and, and, and feeling that something is off. And, uh, it’s the gin. When he gets released, who’s kind of working his way towards her. Right. Yeah. And the reason he’s working his way towards her is what I Craig: think it’s because she she’s the one that released him. So she gets this gym. She’s like trying to appraise it. So she breathes on it and she rubs it. And so I guess that’s what like releases him Todd: or whatever, but it doesn’t immediately release him. I mean, like you’re right. The movie makes a big deal out of this, that, that she breeds on. It rubs it. Like it’s extremely significant, but then it’s not like he pops out. No, not yet. She gives the Juul to her friend, Nick who’s, um, Josh, sorry, who they kind of want to, they’re trying to get a relationship going or he’s interested in a relationship. She’s not quite sure they’re really good friends. Right. And, uh, he works in the lab and he’s looking to put in the spectra spectrometer, spectro analysis machine or whatever. Yeah. And so late at night, you know, he turns on the machine and is analyzing the gym and it explodes and it kills him. Uh, but we see before. The police get there. Uh, that actually the gin is now out, out in, in the smaller form, right? He’s in this little kind of creature that crawls across the ground doesn’t have legs. And the smaller version of, uh, the gin is actually played by a Verne Troyer. First film rolls. Yeah. Like, like his third film role was this one. First one was Pinocchio’s revenge. You’ve seen that. Nothing too, too remarkable. Right. Uh, but yeah, he was in, in this one too. Craig: Doesn’t kill Josh. It just, uh, badly, badly injures him. And then yes, this little, it reminds me of, um, The tequila worm from a Poltergeist or Poltergeist to whichever one it was, you know, it was just kind of this slithering thing, but it, it, it crawls up to Josh and says, I can take your pain away. Do you wish it. And he says, yes. So to take his, that’s the thing, this is, it’s very much a monkey’s Paul kind of thing. Like you can wish for whatever you want to, but the gin is going to somehow make it horrible for you. And so it takes away his pain by killing him. And then, uh, it grows like it, it derives its power, uh, from these wishes. And from the very beginning, it’s like, Alex Alexandra. She is somehow connected. To it, the gin or somehow. And so she has these visions. And so whenever it kills somebody, like she sees it, like she experiences it and it causes her great term. Todd: It causes her to spring up in bed where she apparently lights candles at the foot of her bed before she goes to sleep, which is a bad idea. Yeah. She, throughout the whole movie, it’s really most of the movie from here on out. Well, they meet up is just her freaking out every time and really freaking out every time she gets one of these. Well, and Craig: it’s funny that you said she lights candle. She, she does. Fire is a big motif for her in this movie because apparently. Her parents were killed in a fire and she was there and she was able to save her younger sister, but she wasn’t able to save her parents. So that’s constantly on her mind and she has visions of fire all the time. Doesn’t stop her from lighting candles. All over her house while she’s sleeping and also doesn’t stop her from smoking 4,000 cigarettes. Todd: It’s so funny. It Craig: totally dates this movie cause people don’t smoke in movies anymore. Cause smoking’s bad. Don’t it’s bad for you. Don’t do it. But. She does. She’s a big old smoker anyway, whatever random observations for me, but then kind of for a little while, you know, cuts to these scenes where I guess the gin is like trying to build his power or whatever. And so he’s kind of going around, tricking people into making wishes. One of the first ones is this bum that he finds on the street. Played by buck flower, Todd: love the guy that’s so iconic Craig: and all of these horror movies often as above them. But gosh, at this point now that we’ve watched so many movies and now that I know who he is, every time he pops on, like, I get so excited and I’m like, ha ha Todd: buck Craig: flowers. But, uh, he’s a, he’s a bum. And he’s like hanging outside a, uh, what’s the word F a pharmacy. And, um, the pharmacist comes out and yells at him and tells them to go away. And this was the guy that I’m like, That guy is familiar. I knowing who that guy is. And so I looked him up and it’s Reggie banister from all of the Phantasm movies. So many cameos, they have a fight full, like it’s just profanity laced. I thought it was just, yes. Then buck flower bumps into the gin in an alley. And the gen tricks them into making a wish. And he says, you know, Eight and he’s got this great voice. Like what would you do it? He’s got this great, like, yeah. Yeah. This is great. Like low gravelly voice. What would you have happen? Give it some thought. Hey shit. Only get ganja. You don’t want me to get cancer and die? That’s you wish? So of course the pharmacist immediately gets like, I don’t Todd: even know what it’s, what is the some kind of, uh, like instant skin cancer and every cell in your body or Craig: something. And so he just immediately dies. Todd: It’s just, it’s a lot of airbag airbags and bubbles underneath his ladders underneath is his fake skin fun. I Craig: mean, I thought, uh, it’s cool. Yeah. The bum runs off in the gins, like enjoy your time while you still have a soul. So like, I guess he is collecting these people souls who make these wishes, but. Not right now. Todd: I’ll get back. He’s going to wait just the right moment. Craig: Right? Of course, Alex sees all this too. Cause she sees everything that happens. The plot really, I guess in looking at my notes. It, it, it looks to me like the plot is kind of plotting at this point. And I guess it is, I think is, but there’s so much like, it feels fast paced because it’s so effects driven and they don’t really linger on any one scene for too long. And, and yeah, so, I mean, she’s just kind of. You know, this weird stuff is happening to her. And so she’s just kind of trying to investigate and Todd: figure out what’s going on. She seems to think that there’s something up with the gem, because that was what, you know, she left with him and went into headaches when it exploded and he had been killed and she had even seen when they were looking at it together, something weird inside. So she decides to try to track down exactly where this sham came from. She presumably goes to the. Figures out that it came from the pawn shop, uh, from, from talking to Nick who she got it from. And then, um, Craig: I dunno where you’re getting Nick you’re obsessed Todd: with Nick. His name is the guy. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Josh was her friend. Nick is the guy who’s all obsessed with money. Right. He was like, Oh right. His boss. Craig: You’re right. You’re right. Sorry, go ahead. Todd: So, yeah, she tracks it through Nick and then they go on, she ends up somehow finding the dock worker who stole it. And from there, he just mentioned that he got it from the statue and there she goes and meets up with Robert England’s character. And that’s when he, we see his whole house, which looks suspiciously, like exactly the same set that we saw in the very beginning of the movie, kind of. Craig: Really, Todd: this is Lee similar, where he just has a, like you said, he’s like an old, rich, uh, asshole who collects, uh, all of these artifacts. And he has one, he says from every ancient civilization and that had a still right there was where that statue was going to go, but I’m still throwing a party for it. And if you want, why don’t you come on out? Break your along. And I love all the little shades he’s throwing in here. Like, I didn’t know if he was going to try to molest her or what was going on here, but anyway, she collapses has another vision. Blah-blah-blah um, it’s all just basically leading up to this guy, uh, the gin of finding her. So that’s, what’s kind of plotting, I think is her side of it maybe. Yeah. And I think what’s sort of plotting about it is we already know. Right. Like, we already know exactly where the gem came from. And so we’re just watching the first five minutes of the movie. In reverse for the next 20 minutes of the movie, interspersed with the gin stuff, which is way more interesting. Know what I mean? Yeah. I mean, if it was a mystery like that, we were kind of engaged with too. We were kind of wondering, but even the folklore of the gin himself is spelled out to us in a few sentences in the beginning of the movie. So these scenes where she meets up with the folklorist and she basically says exactly the same thing to her true are like, Oh, okay. Like, Tell me something new. Yeah. So I think, I think that’s why it felt plotting on that side. Craig: That’s fair. I think that’s totally fair. But at the same time, I mean, even before we get there and I like that the lady that plays whoever she is, college professor, whatever that explains the gin. Legend. I, I think she’s bringing O’Hara. But, um, even before that, like the gin goes to a Morgan gets a body, like he just doesn’t manifest into some human version of themselves. Like he goes and gets a body and he tricks the mortgage worker into he’s like, do you wish you didn’t see this? And the guy’s like, uh, yeah, makes it so the guy’s eyes are like, Stitched up and grown together. Just these little things that are not really relevant to the plot at all. I mean, it’s just excuses for doing these. Makeup effects and practical effects. But in the moment I didn’t care cause they looked good and they looked cool and I, and I enjoyed seeing it, but he gets this, you know, human body. And it’s funny because then from that point on pretty much every woman who sees them, like takes off her panties and throws them at him, like he’s supposed to be like the hottest guy and he’s a handsome man. He is, I just don’t know that he necessarily justifies the reaction that he immediately gets from every woman that he sees. For example, when he goes to get a suit, uh, in a, in a store and the gorgeous, uh, sales girl is totally flirting with them. And he eventually, you know, while she’s ringing him up, He like just makes money appear on the counter or whatever, and says something about how beautiful she is. And don’t, you wish you could be beautiful forever. And she’s like, well, I guess he’s like, well, say it. She’s like, okay. I wish I could be beautiful forever. And then he turns her into a mannequin. I mean, it’s, it’s silly. Yeah. I don’t know. Todd: I just, but it’s, it’s clever. I mean, it’s, it’s an interesting superpower, right? Like it, it definitely gives him limitations. Like you said, he can’t go around with a sword and cut people. Like you get this idea, like he’s actually unable to do that. Right. So. He has to trick them into wishing for something in order to get his stuff done. And half of the time it’s these corny sort of silly ways, but it gets the job done. And that’s probably what you’re stuck with. So, you know, when you’re, when you’re a gin, this is, this is the, the clay with which you work. Right. Craig: Well, and that’s the thing too. Like he has to get them. To wish. And he asked to get them to wish for the right thing. And it always works out, but there’s at least one scene where it almost does it. He’s trying to hunt her down, I guess, because she’s the one that led him out. He has to get her to make three wishes in order. For him to truly be freed and for all his breadth or, and to be freed and for them to take over the world or whatever, but he ends up at her job and it’s late at night. So it’s closed. Of course. And there’s a security guard played by Kane hotter, again, another big horror guy. And at first he’s trying to get this security guard to wish and he does, but he just wishes. I wish you would go away or something like that. And you can tell by Andrew DevOps performance, that he’s really irritated by this because it’s like he has no choice. But to do what was wished. So he turns around to leave, but no, I have to get inside. Well now you’d have to go through me. And that is something I would love to see. And this is what are those not practical effects. That’s just okay. Like he turns him into pretty bad glass, crystal or something and walks right through him. And he shatters into a million pieces. I don’t know. Yeah. I mean, I can keep going a lot. Like it, he finally gets Alex’s location because he talks to Nick and he, you know, charms him with kind of a magic trick, turning something into gold or something. Yeah. But then, uh, Nick’s like, well, I can’t tell you where she is. And he’s like, well, I’ll make it worth your while. What do you want? He’s like a million dollars. And then we just see this random scene where this sweet, old ladies getting on a plane and the person who’s taking her tickets, like, Oh, you forgot to sign for the insurance policy. And she’s like, Oh, Oh, I guess I better do that. Cause it’ll go to my son, Nick. Todd: So next shot is the plate explode. Craig: But that’s the other thing that I like about the movie too, is that it doesn’t take itself too seriously. Like it’s goofy and it knows it’s goofy and that’s okay. Anyway, I like it. Then she goes and visits. Wendy, Wendy, I don’t even know who Wendy is. Wendy is like a college professor or something. Todd: She’s a professor of folklore. Yeah. But you Craig: said who she was played by? What was this lady’s name? Uh, Jenny O’Hara. I recognized her right away too. And I’m not exactly sure what I specifically recognized her from, but I looked her up and she was in, I think it was M night Shyamalan. Devil, uh, yes, the movie where they’re like all trapped in an elevator and one of them is the devil, Todd: but she was in her alert. Craig: I, I, I didn’t say she was the devil Todd, but I guess now I did spoiler Todd: alert. She was in mystic river as well. Um, but she’s been all over television. I think that’s probably, probably, yeah, she has a very distinctive look. I recognized her as well, and I was embarrassed to note, to not be able to pinpoint where, but I just feel like I’ve probably just seen her as a bit character in a lot of different TV, TV shows. Yeah. But I like her. Yeah. She was really good. She Craig: she’s got a commanding presence. And, and then I don’t remember exactly what happens next, but what, what I do remember is that of eventual, like the gen tracks Alex down, because Alex like coaches, youth basketball, like I guess that we’re supposed to like, think that she’s a good person because she. Coaches basketball. He tracks her down at a basketball game and he the agendas and he meets her sister. So, you know, we know that he knows that she has a sister, blah, blah, blah. But eventually Alex goes back to windy and I really liked that scene in Wendy’s apartment. I just thought it was really clever. Of course I knew what was going on. But I didn’t know. And couldn’t remember if the first time I had seen it, that it was as obvious as it seemed this Todd: time. It takes a little while to catch on because it’s just, you know, when he’s just explaining to her more about the mythology, but then she starts acting like, she’s like, Oh, do you want me to open the window? Are you a little hot in here? And he’s like, no, I’m fine. It’s like, Oh, do you need something to drink? And she’s asking her it after about the second or third requests were, as the audience were like, Oh, this is, this is out of place. Something is up. Even Alex herself is, uh, saying no. Um, why are you asking me all of these things? And it’s clearly, uh, becomes clear to us that she’s the gin in disguise. And that what’s happened is the gin has killed her as well, which, uh, he reveals himself to Alex. And basically says, you know, it’s time for you to make your three wishes and the way that he. Now help me out here because he compels her to make her three wishes, but not right away. Oh, Oh yeah. Her first way he gives her a free one because she says, well, I just want to wish you dead. And so he says, all right, well, you can use that one. And, uh, he, she shoots himself through the. Chin blows his brains out and it immediately seals back up again. Uh, he says that, which is immortal, cannot be killed. So that was your phrase, you know, now you’ve got your other three. Okay. And then she wishes herself to know. She says, uh, I always tell my students when she’s talking about her basketball it’s to know your know your opponent. So I want to know about you. And so he says, as you wish, and the way that he shows her about him as he puts her back in his little layer inside the Opal, which, which reminded me a little bit of a cube, it’s like, yeah, red, glowing walls, bottles, and passageways and everything. So it’s not just him that was trapped in here, but he’s got a whole host of little monsters and creatures some little, again, a lot of these. Things are clearly just there to be more effects for us to OU and all over. And he’s got this little, almost looks like a cross between a bird and a dog. It’s all slimy and bony and it chases her around and she wishes herself out of it. And back to her apartment without him there. And that’s what happens. So now she’s used her two Craig: wishes. I know, and that was my least favorite part of the movie. First of all, the fact that the fact that he says, I’ll give you one free wish bullshit. Like who’s going to fall, like, first of all, why would he do that? Secondly, even if he were telling the truth, I certainly wouldn’t believe that like, that’s bullshit. Like yeah, you say that. And then that’s just my wish. Like that’s dumb. Um, and then her first wishes, I want to know what you are. What more do you need to know? Like Wendy has explained this to you in great detail, like, and she doesn’t learn anything new. She just gets chased around in the, by the hell hound and the gym world or whatever. She doesn’t learn anything new. And then that forces her into her second wish, which is just, I want to go home. And so now she’s too down, like, man, talk about wasting your wishes lame, Todd: but it ups the ante because we know that if she can be convinced to do one more wish than life on earth, as we know it is over, Craig: I know. And we’re nearing the end of the movie. So I guess they had to stay. Todd: Okay. They’d rather spend time on this boring investigation than I actually liked this part. I think. Craig: So she wishes her way back home and she gets there and she finds a note from her sister saying, I waited for you as long as I could, but you never showed up. So I went ahead and went to Beaumont’s party and the gin or on the phone, you know, as genie will and says, uh, we’re connected now, you know, anywhere you are. Uh, I’m there two or whatever. And we see that, you know, like she tries to raise to the party, but he’s, you know, right there, she stops the car and, and he’s right there outside her window and bus out or window or whatever. She finally gets to the party and Tony Todd Candyman himself is the doorman slash bouncer. She runs up to him and she’s like, you gotta, you gotta help me. This guy’s following me. He’s trying to kill me or whatever. And so he lets her inside and then, uh, he has a conference, Tony Todd, as a confrontation with the gin and human form. He’s in his human form now. And I thought that was funny. Like they kind of have a little pissing contest or Todd: at first you think, yeah, he’s not going to be easily fooled. Uh, but then he says, this was the silliest. One of them all really, it is. He says to him, don’t you wish you had another job? And he’s like, what are you talking about? I was like, no, no, really? You could don’t you wish you could escape is what he says. Yeah, I would. And then he says, as you wish, and then as he walks away, we see behind him, he’s in a, like a padlocked, a glass case with water in it. And he’s tied up with chains like it like Houdini. Yeah. You know, one of his illusions and he’s like, he said, he, as he walks away, he says, Houdini only took three minutes to escape. Yeah. Oh, Craig: that’s so silly. It really was that’s that’s the silliest one. Plus it kind of, I mean, I get the whole monkeys pie idea. Like your wish gets turned around on you or whatever, but if your wishes, I wish I could escape one would think that he would be able to escape. I don’t know. No you’re whatever. You’re a hundred percent it’s it’s still, you know, it’s a funny. Visual. And it gives an opportunity for us to see Tony Todd young, thin, you know, probably relatively early in his career. I don’t remember that Todd: from Candyman. Yeah. I think it was around the same time, Craig: but anyway. Okay. So, uh, they go there in the party and Alex is running around, looking for Shannon, her sister. Shannon for no reason is being kind of standoffish because she finally finds her Alex find her and she’s like, we have to leave right now. We have to go and go. And Shannon’s like, no, I’m fine. Dang, Todd: like Craig: you would think these two seemingly close, like they live together. Uh, Alex saved her from a fire. You know, one would think that Shannon might trust her sister a little bit, but no, it’s like, no, I’m staying. Did you see Beaumont’s new friend? He’s so hot and, and they look. And Beaumont is talking to the gin and his human form. And then we cut to their conversation. They’re commenting on the party. I remember a certain potentate whose last party he was talked about for centuries. What do you mean? It went down in history. Yes, God. I’d love to host a party like that. And he’s talking about the opening scene that we saw. And then again, it’s just, it’s the impetus for this huge effects driven slaughter of this party. And it’s so much fun like this. Isn’t a great movie. I mean, it’s not a great movie, but these moments, um, are just so much fun to watch. And I loved all the stuff that was going on. In what probably boils down to five minutes. But if that, Todd: Oh, I dunno. It was, I think it was probably more like 10. It’s very, very, um, uh, dead, alive style where everything just goes crazy and it’s blood and guts and Gore and things, crazy things happening everywhere. Statues are coming to life. The cops show up and they’re trying to, trying to shoot at the statues and the statues are exploding, but they’re also cutting people to ribbons. The director himself. Robert Kurtzman, uh, has a cameo in here as well as a guy who’s standing around too close to the piano and the piano starts playing itself and all the. Wire spring out of it and wrap around his arms and his face and his head, and basically pull his head off. It’s just a mess of, of this stuff. And it’s fun. You’re right. It’s just a gratuitous out the yin yang. And, uh, and in the meantime, she’s running around Alex and eventually gets cornered by the gin. Yeah, Craig: that you mentioned that piano wire scene, there’s a making of documentary on the DVD, or at least the DVD that I have, I saw you can also find it on YouTube. It’s really not all that informative, but they do show how they did some of these practical effects and the way that they did. That piano wire effect. They show that in great detail and it looks really cool. And the director, you know, I have no idea how old he is, but he certainly was very young at heart. And was, he said that he’s not much of an actor, but give him any opportunity to die on film and he’ll to it. It was really cool to see how they did that. There were some other things, there are lots of fire effects in this movie, and lots of them are here in this final scene. And there’s lots of behind the scene footage of that. And they had some really close calls with explosions and things like there was one scene it’s here at the end. I don’t remember exactly when it is, but a man is engulfed in fire and runs and jumps out. A window. Well, the first time they lit this guy up, you know, and he was in a fire suit and all the safety precautions, you know, all, all that was. Set, but he went to jump out the window and it didn’t break and he just bounced off it and, uh, fell back onto the floor. And, you know, they they’re shooting all this behind the scenes and you see that they urgently had to get the fire extinguishers to put them out because. Everything was supposed to happen on the other side of the wall and it didn’t break. And there was another scene where there was some sort of explosion, a statue or something was supposed to explode. And they set charges at various levels in the statue, I think from top to bottom. And they were supposed to explode in sequence, but the first explosion was so hot that it caused the lower charges to malfunction. And both of them exploded at the same time. And there was a big fire. And you see it happen and you see them put the, put it out and there’s so much smoke, but then what’s really interesting to see as the aftermath, like the cameras were right there to capture it and the aftermath they show the cameras or just completely melted. Yeah. And, uh, I guess there was so much smoke that day that they were forced by the fire Marshall to shut down. Shooting for the rest of the day. But anyway, that documentary it’s only like 20 minutes is on YouTube if you’re interested. Yeah. So basically it comes down to the same scenario, Mario. The, the opening scene was where the gin has Alex cornered and he basically says, You can wish all this away. And the stakes are especially high because he’s got Shannon trapped in a painting and she’s burning. And so, uh, in order to save her sister and herself, it’s a double-edged sword because even if she wishes to save them in this moment, Supposedly that unleashes hell on earth. So, you know, what’s the point? What do you do? But she’s very clever. She thinks really hard Todd: about her final Craig: wish. And she liked flashes back to all this research research that she’s done. And, um, she sees the article about the initial accident that released the stone and she flashes on this name in the text. I wish, I wish I wish Mickey Tourette. Hadn’t been drinking on the job two days ago. Initially the gin is like, ha, she made her wish. And then he’s like, Oh wait, damn, because that means the stone never got released from the statue. And so he never got freed. And as everything goes back in time, we see that doc scene again, but this time the guy’s not drunk, so everything’s fine. The assistant doesn’t get squashed. The stone doesn’t get broken. I don’t really understand this because like, Are we supposed to think that Alex is still aware of what happened? I Todd: know it, it seems like the movie’s kind of implying that because the next scene is between her and her friend, Josh, and instead of being real tentative about their relationship, she kind of has this knowing smile and she’s like, yeah, let’s go out. And then she kisses him. Yeah. And so that was, yeah, you’re right. It feels like it’s a knowing Alex, but it doesn’t necessarily have to be, she could just have had a change of heart over the last day. Yeah, Craig: I guess, or I don’t know, maybe something inherent about her character was changed even as she doesn’t remember. I don’t know. But then it flat she’s back to Beaumont’s house and the pedestal where the statue is always supposed to be. And now it is there and the camera like zooms into the statue and into the stone. And we see the gin sitting on his. Thrown just trapped within and that’s the end. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I don’t know. I mean, you’re fine, obviously. It’s yeah. That’s what I thought you were going to say. Todd’s review Todd: is it was fine. It’s fine. I mean, I got everything to say about it that you said about it. It was a. It was a lot of fun to see all the different Gore effects and things. Uh, it did get a little plotting in the middle. It was a rather simple story. And some of it was a little hokey and cheesy, but it was a unique concept. And again, this idea of that this character’s powers are better than just a guy running around slashing people or a guy running around, making magical things happen. It’s it’s cool. It’s sort of like the vampire trying to convince you to invite him into his home. Right. There’s that moment there where you kind of root for the. The human, like, Oh, don’t let them, don’t let them do it. Don’t let them do it, man. You have more power than you realize. It’s just your words. And then they say something like, I want this or I wish this, and then it’s all over for them. Right. So there’s that aspect. I didn’t think the monkey’s paw aspect of it was as clever. Is it. Could have been, I, I suppose, but I can’t write a movie, you know, so who knows what I would come up with, but it just would have been neat if those aspects were just a little more like clever twists, like a little more Twilight Zoney, but that’s just a small thing. And I thought the, the character himself was pretty cool. I liked, you know, his eyes, his physicality, that, you know, the makeup and everything apparently was a huge pain to get into and out of. Like three hours to get into it, hour and a half to get out of it every day, but they really designed a cool creature. But yeah, I mean, at the end of the day, the story was rather simple and kind of silly at times. So it wasn’t one that I’m going to probably go back and watch too often. Not one I’m going to buy on DVD, Craig. So to be Craig: fair, to be fair, I bought it when our last. Video rental store closed down and they were liquidating all of their stuff. And so I got in on a double disc with wish master too, for like a dollar. Todd: Have you seen the second Craig: one? I have. I’ve seen all of, well, the second one is pretty good. I didn’t enjoy it as much as I liked the first one, but I still enjoyed it and yeah. Um, I think that that’s largely because of Andrew div off. I mean, even in the gins human form is cool. Yeah. He’s still very menacing. I mean, he’s got that great voice. He’s got these piercing eyes and, and they, they do, you know, he plays both forms. In the second one. Also the first movie was made on a $5 million budget. Uh, six months start to finish. They shot it in 33 days and it grossed 16 million. So, you know, they, they went forward with the, uh, second one. And the second one, I think. The fans of the first one came out for the second one. So it said, okay, too well enough for them to Greenlight a third one, Andrew DevOp was on board to reprise the role for the third one, but he wrote a treatment for the script and the studio rejected it in favor of a different script that div off hated. And so he left and they replaced him with an actor named John Novak and they shot wish master three and four back, two back. Oh, one of those. Yeah, like a weekend between, uh, the two and three and four aren’t as good. They’re not as clever at all. They lean more into the fantasy. There’s a lot less Gore. Um, I still watched them and I didn’t hate them, but they’re obviously lower quality. I mean, they feel like made for cable movies because they are overall, you know, this first one I think was pretty ambitious and, and considering the fact that it was shot so quickly on a relatively meager budget, I mean, 5 million. I’ll never have $5 million, but that’s a fairly low budget, especially for such an effects driven movie. And it did pretty well. I’m kind of surprised. I feel like this franchise is forgotten. I never hear anybody talk about it. I never see anything about it. And that surprises me because I think that it was clever. I don’t know. I have an appreciation for it. I don’t think that it’s amazing. I don’t think it’s a great movie. But, uh, if you’re a horror fan, uh, I think at least the first one and maybe the first two, um, are worth checking out. They’re fun, little rides, you know, they’re popcorn movies, they’re fun, popcorn movies. And I would recommend them. I like them and Todd: check out the cameos. Craig: Oh gosh. Yeah. It’s worth it for the cameos alone. Anyway, those of you out there in internet land, let us know what you think about this movie. I’d be interested in if I’m the only one who, uh, remembers it fondly and still thinks of it. Of course, we are happy to talk to you about whatever you’d want to talk about. We are very much open to it. Plus, we’ve got kind of a long list of requests that we’re working on now, but if you’ve got something you would like for us to talk about, we will put you on the list and we will try to get to you as soon as we can. You can find all of our back episodes anywhere where you can find podcasts, just Google “Two Guys and a Chainsaw podcast”, and you’ll find this all over the place. Check out our YouTube page. Uh, we’re not doing a whole lot with it yet, but, uh, the more subscribers we can get, the more we may be able to do with that. And then hopefully we can broaden our viewership a little bit more until we meet again. I am Craig and I’m Todd with Two Guys and a Chainsaw. The post Wishmaster appeared first on 2 Guys & A Chainsaw.
59 minutes | 3 months ago
Blacula is one of the most respected "blaxploitation" horror films to come out of the 70's, and the first blaxploitation horror film for us to tackle. Directed by a William Crain, a black director, and helmed by the Shakespearean actor William Marshall, it's essentially your standard Dracula story transported to an urban setting. And it's not nearly as bad as its goofy title would lead you to think. Expand to read episode transcript Automatic Transcript BlaculaEpisode 248, 2 Guys and a Chainsaw Todd: Hello and welcome to another episode of Two Guys and a Chainsaw. I’m Todd. Craig: And I’m Craig. Todd: So this month is February and in the United States, since I’m actually not sure how long it’s been, but it has been established. You wary is celebrated as black history month, where in the schools and I’m out and about, and in our daily events and lives, we celebrate the contributions of African-Americans in the United States and catch up a little bit on the pitiful job that we’ve done so far in doing that. And remembering and acknowledging the contributions of black Americans and what they’ve done for us. So we hear on a two guys in a chainsaw. I don’t know. I just, I came out to Craig one time and I said, you know, of course we just did a Valentine’s day thing. We love to do these holiday things. But there is a whole genre of film that we’ve touched on and dipped into just a little bit that is geared, especially towards, uh, African-Americans in the horror industry. Uh, obviously there is a period of time in the seventies, late seventies called blaxploitation cinema, which a couple hundred movies I’ve actually think more than 400 films were released, where it was suddenly realized African-Americans, uh, there, there might be a market for movies. Believe it or not starring them with them in it, with stories that, uh, speak to them or that they care about, you know, after being relegated to really, really poor roles in Hollywood, like a mammy type made roles, like in gone with the wind or sidekick roles, or they’re just a lot of these tropes that we have and a horror cinema has been no better at that. However, uh, in the late seventies, there were some opportunities there. I mean quite honestly, to make money. And that is the sort of mixed bag that we dive into. When we talk about blaxploitation cinema, it’s black and exploitation meshed together, right. It’s sort of a double-edged sword here in preparation for this art, uh, for this episode, because another reason why Craig and I don’t try to dive too deep into this stuff is that we’re two of the whitest guys. You probably like the white, easiest white guy. We are. We are wonder bread. Okay. This is what we are. So, you know, it makes us a little nervous that we might say something that w that just displays our ignorance. We’re certain that we have a lot of ignorance about this topic, but, um, you know, I, I said to Craig, and I think he agrees as part of the point of black history month. And part of the point of. Having a podcast and talking about these kinds of things is that we try to gain a better understanding and in order to gain a better understanding and better yourself, sometimes you have to take some risks and you need to step out and have these conversations that at first may be difficult or uncomfortable, but they’re conversations worth having. And, uh, I mean, come on, it’s just. These are just movies. All right. I don’t want to make this sound like super serious. Like we’re doing serious work here because we’re going to talk about black Hills. So, uh, little silly putting this preface in there, but I feel like we kind of need to get all that out there because we know we’ll probably put our foot in our mouth a little bit. In just talking about this because we have to talk about it in the context in which it appeared. It is widely recognized as one of the very first hor uh, it isn’t, but it’s widely recognized as one of the most influential blaxploitation horror films to come out of the seventies that really set a tone and open up some doors for people that otherwise were closed. And of all of those horror films of blaxploitation films that did come out, it’s probably. Still to this date regarded as one of the best. It doesn’t mean it’s a great movie, but in the context of everything else, it is. I think we have a lot to talk about here. I don’t know about you, Craig. Uh, I had seen black, uh, black, yellow back in high school, I think with some friends. And at the time I remembered watching it and I was expecting a certain kind of movie. When you hear exploitation and you see movies like shaft and Superfly and stuff like that, that were more in the action. John Rez of this time period, lots of sacks. Lots of nudity, lots of violence. And it’s just kind of a mile a minute. And I was expecting something like that with this movie. I think when I first went in, Oh, it’s going to be, you know, Dracula going down to the hood and like banging girls and like, you know, there’s going to be shootouts and cops running after him and stuff. I don’t know, but it’s definitely not. It’s not quite that. I do remember going, Oh, This movie’s a little better than I thought it would be. I just remembered being surprised. So I hadn’t seen it since then. I was really happy to come back and revisit it at this time. And I needed a lot of help, you know, for us to begin to talk about this. So I actually went on shutter and found out that there is a little documentary there. Called a horror noir. It is a cool documentary. It’s about an hour and a half long. And it, it talks with, um, interviews with black historians, filmmakers and actors, many people from these movies. They interviewed the director of this film, William Crane, who himself is black. It was fascinating. I, I highly recommend that if you enjoy this conversation or you want to kind of go out and learn more about this stuff and you have shutter. Here we are promoting shutter again, get on there and find the documentary horror. Nawara it really opened my eyes up. And I think, um, the podcast is probably going to be a little more substantive, uh, as a result of watching that. How about you, Craig? What’s your history with this movie? Craig: I had never seen it before. Uh, I don’t know, like, I wasn’t really familiar with it. I’d heard the title, but I think. That I had intentionally shied away from blaxploitation films because the exploitation part of it made me feel very uncomfortable to the point that I thought, like these movies aren’t for me, like not just as a matter of taste, but like they’re not made for me. They’re not, I’m not the intended audience. I just. So, you know, in preparation for this, I did just the tiniest bit of research. I am not going to pretend to be an expert on any of this at all, but as it turns out, though, these movies are exploitive. They also on the flip side were kind of the first opportunity. In Hollywood for black directors and black actors. And, and, you know, in every aspect of filmmaking, it was kind of the first opportunity for people of color, to not only take advantage of their abilities as writers, directors, actors, et cetera. But to be the central focus, Todd: to be the heroes, to Craig: be the heroes and the, and there are elements of it that are stereotypical, but you can say that I suppose, of any movie or any genre, there’s always stereotypes, especially in horror, you know, horror is, you know, rooted in Todd: stereotypes. By its nature. Horror is exploitative. You know, I mean, it that’s pretty much the whole genre. Right, right. Craig: But here though, there are those elements and, and, and certainly elements that are worthy of criticism, you know, the focus on violence and the stereotypes of certain characters like pimps and criminals and, and violence and that kind of stuff. Also provided an opportunity for real representation of people of color, not just to play the villain, not just to play the bad guy, but to also be main characters and heroes and to have real storylines. And I guess I was just unaware of that. I thought that these movies and, and I’m. I’m not well-versed in them. Like I haven’t seen any of the other big ones, like shaft, you know, I’ve, I’ve seen. There are still some elements, some filmmakers like Quentin Tarantino, who’s a big fan of blaxploitation films. Uh, he still incorporates elements of these films into his work. So I’ve seen some of his work that incorporates those elements and like even silly things. Like, I don’t remember one of those Austin power movies. With a Beyonce. I think it was gold member or whatever. Like her role in that movie is very reminiscent of the like Pam Greer kind of character. So I I’ve seen some of those more contemporary ones, but I was afraid that even by indulging them, I would be in some way. I, it just didn’t feel right. And now that I’m more aware that really largely the black community embraced these movies for the opportunities that they provided, I’m a little bit more open to it. Now, all that being said. They still, these films still faced wide criticism for their stereotypical nature and the NAACP, and some other organizations were opposed to at least elements of these movies, but I’m kind of glad that I’m dipping my toe into the. Pool with this movie, because I really felt that why there, while there are certainly stereotypical elements going on here, the heroes in the movie are heroes and even Prince Manuel de. Black ULA. He’s a nuanced character and he’s a sympathetic character and watching the movie didn’t make me feel dirty. I thought that it might, and it didn’t. Todd: Right, right. That’s reassuring. So that’s good. Yeah. I mean, before this we’ve done, what Def by temptation. Uh, we did tales from the hood. We did get out. I mean, those are almost three completely different. Era’s right there. Def by temptation, late eighties, early nineties tales from the hood mid nineties, get out very modern. Those are not blaxploitation movies. When we say blaxploitation, we’re very definitely talking about yeah, it’s a specific genre, right? Yeah. And, and like you said, it’s a double-edged sword there with how this, how these films came out. I mean, AIP. Is the company that made this film, the owners producer AIP is Samuel Z. Arkoff this guy, basically they would, I ride the coattails of whatever was popular at the time. They were not there to lead, you know, in front with their pictures. They were seeing, Oh, action movies with a big car chases are big right now. So let’s go and as cheaply as possible. Make a bunch of action movies with big car chases, get them out to the drive ins, get them out to the, you know, the theaters where people are and see what sticks and try to make some money from these kind of like Roger Corman, except Roger Corman, a few steps above on that. On that level. He was actually breaking ground and doing things, but still it’s all about making money. So these films are generally low investment and low quality and William Crane, the director of this movie. Now the script came, he didn’t write it. As grape came along, two guys, John Taurus, Raymond Conich. I was looking for information on them to even see if they were black. And I couldn’t find that information according to IMD B those two together only wrote this movie and the SQL screen black ULA screen, which by the way, Pam Grier’s first appearance, uh, was in scream, black ulous scream. So both of these films actually are quite well-regarded of both this one and the SQL, but anyway, William Crane was an up and coming black director and he got the opportunity. He was asked to come in and direct this movie. He found out he wasn’t happy with the script that he found. It was originally going to be called count. Brown is in town. And the main character’s name was going to be Andrew Brown, which is the same name as the character from Amos and Andy and that’s problematic Amos and Andy was a radio show that was pretty racist in its depiction of black characters. So he wanted to come in and change this. And it was his idea to make this Prince, um, mama wall day. He completely roots it in the time he says Prince mumble all day goes to visit count Dracula. 1790s with his queen, I guess a wife or whatever. And they go to Dracula’s castle in Transylvania. And apparently in this world, Dracula himself either has influenced with, or is somehow involved in the slave trade. From Africa. And so he goes there to, can try to convince Dracula, to use his influence, to stop that. And Dracula’s like nice idea, but no, I think there’s some good things about slavery and by the way, uh, I think your wife is pretty hot and, uh, what a buyer I want to buy or, yeah. Pretty it’s pretty horrific. And so that becomes the origin story. That was one of the changes that, you know, what are the big changes that he made, but otherwise, in this film, although you’ll see an almost all black cast, there are white people in the film. Of course he said, otherwise on the set behind the scenes, I found a lot of Craig: tangible resistance and maybe even tangible resentment. Yeah. Well, for racism, I mean, nobody’s going to show your crew was. Predominantly white or everybody was white right now. I can’t remember anyone Todd: else black. There was on that set the changes he wanted to make both visually into the script and the story he really had to fight for. And he had to really try to convince even the higher ups that, you know, just let me do this. I know what I’m doing. And, uh, it seems like at the end of the day, he pretty much got what he asked for and it’s probably, but yeah, even before these genres, you know, you have black people in these tropes, there’s the magical Negro trope where there’s a black character in the movie that, you know, brings in some mystical wisdom and then they give the white characters, just the. Exact information, they need to be able to succeed. And then you have the sacrificial Negro where it’s sort of an extension of the faithful servant trope. Like the mammy who’s doesn’t care about herself and her plight. You know, she just wants to make the white person happy and that’s her life has to serve them. You know, we see this a lot in horror movies too, where the black character comes in and sacrifices themselves. So the white character can continue to live. The first to die is the trope to write in the horror movies that we get a lot of. Right. I mean, there are a lot of examples and there are a lot of exams samples where this isn’t always true. We know actually a lot of horror movies that we’ve done here even back in the day, you know, people under the stairs West Craven was pretty good at that. He has a young black kid and Kincaid and nightmare on Elm street. Three puts up a pretty good fight. So. You know, it’s not across everything, but, uh, these movies are very much fun to watch because the people in charge of these are like, we’re tired of this. So we don’t want this. We want to make a movie where we’re the heroes and, uh, this is our subject matter and let’s go forward with it Craig: even more than it just being about like, Oh, what we need a black hero. Like just outside of that context, like, why can’t there just be a movie. With mostly black people, like, yeah, exactly. Right. Why, why is that such a challenging concept? Or why was it, but like you said before, it’s like Hollywood was like, Hmm. You know, who might be interested in watching movies, black people, maybe we should make some black people movies. Like how is that just dawning on people? Like, that’s why it makes me somewhat uncomfortable even talk about, I’m glad that things are getting better. And I really do think. That things are getting better, but with the events that have transpired recently in America, you know, last summer, With George Floyd and the black lives matter movement. It was just so eye opening to me because in the wake of president Obama’s presidency, I just really thought that we had moved so far as a culture, a way from those stupid. Racist beliefs and actions and traditions and, and, and then things I’m puzzled because I don’t know if things changed or if things had never changed as much as I thought that they had. And it’s been disciplined. Pointing, frankly, gosh, I don’t want to get this. This podcast is isn’t it? Yeah. This pike and this podcast is be fun and entertaining. I don’t want to make it too serious or, or bring people down, but. Personally, I’ve just been very disappointed in America as a civilization and a culture in terms of race relations. And it’s made me very sad and it’s made me do a lot of self-reflection because I’ve always considered myself to be a progressive, you know, minded person and, and see that so much hate and, and. Prejudice and discrimination still exists all around me. Whereas I’ve kind of been, I guess, had my head in the clouds a little bit thinking that things were better than they are. It makes me feel guilty, but more than that, because it’s not about me, it just makes me want to be better. And so I’ve done a lot of self-reflection and have tried to recognize ways that. I can be more proactive. And that’s one of the things that we talked about, you know, folks, I’ll be really honest with you when Todd proposed this. I said, bro, I don’t know. You know, like I ju I just don’t know that we are the people. To tackle something like this. And, and Todd said, well, but you’re a literature teacher. You deal with this kind of stuff all the time. And I do, I just, I just, I worry so much. About my own ignorance and, and exposing it because I do, I want to be proactive and I do want to be an advocate and I do want to be an ally. And I just worry that I’m gonna, like you said, put my foot in my mouth or say something. That I shouldn’t because I can’t, I cannot, nor will I ever be able to speak to the black experience. I can’t. So the only thing that I can do is, you know, speak from my own experience and hope that people know that I have the best of intentions. Yes. While we talk about this silly movie, which ultimately. Is, you know, just, it just it’s, it’s just Dracula, but he’s black. Like that’s Todd: really well. And actually that’s, what’s kind of great about the movie. I think it is what it is. I guess it’s for better, for worse. If you really like Dracula and you really like the Dracula story and you’ll want to see another version of it, this will be a fun movie for Craig: you. Well, and if you like the hammer films, I feel like this is, is much in line with those it’s though it’s set in an urban setting. It feels very much like those hammer pictures, it’s kind of traditional storytelling. There’s really nothing unexpected here. And in fact, you know, like I said, it’s, I’m so glad that they inserted that. Opening scene in Transylvania with Dracula and included that part about, you know, wanting to stop the slave trade and then Dracula himself being a racist. Totally. Lucy’s the slave trade Todd: slavery has mattered. I believe. Craig: Barbara is from the standpoint of the slave, Todd: perhaps intriguing and delightful for mine, I would willingly pay for so beautiful. In addition to my household, as your delicious Craig: wife. Oh no. In South France, it is a compliment for a man of my station to look with Todd: desire. Craig: The Prince who is very unreasonable is not the right word, but diplomatic, like he carries himself very well. Todd: He’s gentlemen. Yeah. Craig: He’s a very much gentlemen and has been very much a gentlemen in his dealings with Dracula. And, but, and then even when he’s in. Salted. Like he makes it clear that he takes that as insult, but he just says, we’ll be going now. And it’s established right away. It’s, it’s a tragic love story. And I have to say, okay, we should talk about this since it’s a horror podcast. First Dracula says you’re not going anywhere. And he calls in some henchmen and these henchmen start, uh, fighting with Manuel day and Dracula kind of holds the wife. Back, but then like the brides of Dracula come in and I love the vampire design in this it’s classic it’s classic vampire design. It’s very much old school, very, you know, hammer almost, even, even. Uh, huh, it looks, it looks great. It’s super traditional, but it looks great. They come in and Dracula bites, Manuel de and, and curses him and gives him this whole long speech about how you’re going to be damned to have this blood lust forever. But I’m going to lock you in this coffin so you can never satisfy your thirst. And then he. Tells the wife, I’m going to lock you in here and you can be comforted by his cries from inside the coffin until you die. But it’s established much like in Dracula that it’s also kind of this tragic romance, this tragic love story. Um, and it follows that same beat when he ends up coming back. There’s a woman that he encounters right away who. It’s played by the same actress clearly is the embodiment of his old love. And that’s right from the source material. And that’s the thrust of the movie. It is. Yeah. It’s so traditional everything else. I don’t know, it’s almost secondary to the very traditional elements of the story. And it’s, it’s compelling. It’s not a great movie, but it’s as compelling as any of the other hundreds Todd: I’ve seen was, you know, it’s funny that you say that because I sat down, it is rated PG, by the way, there’s a little bit of blood, but not much, you know, it’s just vampires biting each other. So I sat down and watched it with my wife and. One thing that I mentioned to her, I was like, you know, as I was kind of watching this movie, I was getting bored because it is a little bit more of a drama, you know, than anything else. And the action’s not high, but I said, you know what? I guess that’s Dracula. Oh yeah. It comes out at night kind of stalking and seductive and whatever it takes his time, maybe he gets invited into the house. Maybe he doesn’t, but he can’t, unless you invite him in. And then, and then the morning comes and then for, you know, the next 15, 20 minutes, it’s a bunch of people talking. Because it’s daytime, Dracula’s sleeping until nighttime comes again. And then Dracula’s, you know, the threat again somehow, but it’s just always, they always end up being very talky plotty type movies, heavy drama, heavy, heavy plot, trying to figure out where is he? Oh, there’s another victim. Let’s examine the victim. Now let’s figure out, you know, I mean, They’re kind of like that. And so this movie is really no different, I think from a lot of those other Dracula movies in its pacing. And again, a little bit in its tone, the actor who plays Dracula, William Marshall, he is a classically trained Shakespearian actor, mostly on the stage. He started on Broadway in 1944 in 1950. He understudied was Boris Karloff. As captain hook and the Broadway production of Peter pan, I didn’t even know Boris Karloff was captain hook and the Broadway production of Peter pan. Um, but he’s most well-known for playing Othello on stage in at least six different stage productions. And has probably, I think to this day is regarded as maybe one of the best Othello’s of, of all time. Craig: I can see that he has a very commanding presence. In fact, I would say that based on my limited. Experience with him in this movie. I would say that maybe he’s more suited for the stage. Yeah, he has that kind of presence. Yeah. He’s very stagey and like dig in there. So like when he comes back and he eventually finds her name, Uh, was Luva in the past. It’s Tina in our present day, which is in the seventies. Eventually he kind of woos her. It doesn’t take very much, she’s clearly drawn to him, but eventually they come back together and they have scenes. Where they kiss and eventually make love. Now there’s not a sex scene. We just see them post coitus. But, um, in those scenes where they kiss, it was cringy to me really was there was no, no chemistry or passion at all. Like. Like, let’s just kind of close the lips, mash our face. Todd: It’s almost like the camera knew that too. Cause it would just kind of stay behind one of their heads. So you couldn’t even really see it. Craig: But that said he, he does have. Uh, a very theatrical presence that almost makes him, uh, it kind of makes him stand out in this movie. Well, but I guess that makes sense. I mean, he’s supposed to be from the 18 hundreds, 17 hundreds or whatever. So he would have a different effect than modern Todd: people that the kind of classical Bela Lugosi vampire. Anyway, you know, he’s a, he’s a gentleman above all things. He’s also six foot five. So, I mean, he literally towers above everybody in this movie and you don’t always notice it, you know, based on the camera angles, but in some of these fight scenes, when he comes across them, it’s like, it’s like the tall man, you know, he just comes up to him with his hand and around their neck and lifts them up off the ground and just shuts people around. And by the way, the fight scenes are pretty bad. I mean, ultimately I kind of want to, if I’m going to talk about like the cinematography as a whole and the. Aging of the S the scenes and all that. I do think it’s pretty wanting in the technical department right there. I didn’t find the fight scenes terribly convincing or, or really thrilling. There’s a chase scene in there. That’s like, Ugh, no, it’s not even exciting. And so, yeah, there’s, there’s, it has these kinds of problems where I don’t feel like the movie really elevate really. Almost never has like a moment where you’re kind of like, Oh, okay, cool. Like there’s something exciting happening. Craig: Well, and it’s a mystery kind of, you know, black I’m a wall day. There are several things that I want to talk about. You know, like I said, the plot is, so I don’t want to say non-essential because you know, it’s a movie you want to plot, but if you know the story of Dracula, it’s, it’s pretty straightforward, just set in an urban place. But there are things that. I found interesting. And one of those things that I found interesting is the way that black ULA gets to Los Angeles. I love this. So apparently, you know, after the. Scenes in the beginning, in the 18 hundreds and 17 hundreds, whatever it is, then we jump to modern day, still in Transylvania, where apparently a real estate agent is trying to sell off Dracula’s estate because Dracula and his gang have been killed years and years ago by van Helsing. And they’re trying to sell off as a state. And I guess they’re having difficulty selling it off. I don’t know. So these. Two gay guys from Los Angeles are. Buying this property. And like, they make it, the, the realtor like reveals that this was Dracula’s place and all these bad things happen there. And they exploit that say, Oh, well, in that case, I think we need to re negotiate a lower price. And the guy’s like, okay, whatever, just take it. And so they negotiate the lower price and as they’re signing the contract, one of the guys. You idiot it. Yeah. Yeah. He dumb ass. Like we’re going to make a fortune off of all of this. Literally feel the legend is yeah. The Dracula legend is huge in America. And the guy’s like, uh, no, it’s not a legend. It was real. And they’re like, okay. What I found interesting about it was, whereas this is a blaxploitation movie. I was shocked to see a representation of one. And they are established as a couple and to an interracial gay couple in 1972. Like you couldn’t have gotten away with that in a mainstream movie. And I think that, that goes to show that where there is. Prejudice and intolerance for one thing that extends to other things. Yeah. And when you tackle that head on you open the door, not just to the group that you’re focusing on, but to other marginalized groups. As well, um, which is great. And of course, these guys are very a feminine and stereotypical, but it didn’t bother me. And I have to, you know, I, I don’t want to draw parallels too much because again, it’s not the same and I cannot speak from a place of oppression. The black people can speak from, but I wonder if my feelings about that kind of representation of homosexual people as a homosexual man, I was happy to see it. It didn’t bother me so much that it was stereotypical. I was just glad to be invited to, does that make sense? Todd: Yeah, it makes perfect sense. Yeah, I hear what you’re saying. I Craig: don’t know. So anyway, I just found it interesting and, and it wasn’t like, it wasn’t a big deal. Like nobody really made nobody made any big deal about it yet. Like later after they come back and they open the thing and they both get bit and eventually come back. Everybody thinks they’re dead, but they eventually come back as vampires. Yes. Todd: There’s some comments made we’ve been on that Craig: missing battery board. Nothing, no fingerprints, no signs of right-hand Andre, not a thing without hell is Wanda dead. They call them fat eggs and it’s um, yeah, several times. Yeah. And, and I don’t like that. I don’t like that word, but I also understand. That it was a different time and people used those words just as in the movie. I don’t think any white people use it, but black people use the N word in this movie too. It was a different time. I don’t like it, but I understand that it was a different time and it just didn’t. In that context, it didn’t really bother me. In fact, I was actually surprised by how casually it was presented. Like they just are this gay couple there’s it just Todd: is. Yeah. You know, it wasn’t laid out for you in a big dramatic way. It was just that’s. Yeah. No special attention was really called to it. Except for the fact of course, like you said, it’s a bit of a stereotypical portrayal. But, you know, I mean, there are people like that too. Right. So it’s okay. Yeah. So Bobby, I think Bobby and Billy are the two, uh, Bobby I thought was like a black Richard Simmons. That’s what he looks like to me. Craig: Take the, the Afro. Todd: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It’s something about his smile too. I don’t know. Anyway, um, Bobby, uh, is laying in repose and they get visited by a Dr. Gordon Thomas and, uh, two women who turn out to be his wife and then his wife’s sister, his wife has Michelle and his sister is Tina. I guess they know Bobby somehow just from Craig: the neighborhood. I think. He, Todd: uh, being a police, they call him doctor, I guess he’s like a police detective. He’s like, um, like the CSI guy or whatever. Yeah. Like, Craig: um, Todd: yeah, he’s a little curious about how he died. And, um, the coroner men says, well, at the family’s request, we haven’t embalmed him yet, but you know, I did try to cover up these odd neck wounds. And so he says neck wounds and he looks over and he sees the neck wounds again, this is this sort of typical vampire thing. And that’s, so that sets him off. Sort of on his quest after the second person shows up dead, who is a cab driver? I loved that Craig: part. Todd: That was great. Craig: That was mama while they sees them visit. And he sees Tina who looks just like his wife. So he follows her and she gets scared and she runs away and he chases her. She drops her purse, then like she gets away, but he’s running across the street and he gets hit by a cab and the. The cab driver is a woman, a black woman. She gets out she’s like you dummy, what were you doing? Like, it was just such fun need dialogue, but then he kind of vamps out on our a little bit, or at least starts like looking at. Thirsty or whatever. Just got to be around here where, I mean, I bet you she’s worried right now. I’m looking for you, but why don’t you the bag over me and go get, I bet you, I bet she’s called the hospital now. Listen, take your hands off of me. I don’t know. The interaction was so. Humorous to me. And he does end up biting her and then she’s dead or undead or whatever. The Todd: most sexily dressed cab driver I’ve ever seen. Yes. Yeah. Craig: It was hot and sassy. I Todd: liked her. She was hot. Yeah. She ended up dying, which is interesting too, because. Uh, you know, there are little moments in this movie that continue to kind of remind you and kind of push your buttons of the racism. Like you said, I don’t think it’s ever gone as far as anybody using the, any white person using the N word. But interestingly enough, the coroner, when they examine the body, one of the first comments he makes, when he looks down at her detective Gordon, by the way is black. Um, the coroner is not, he asked me she’s Craig: looking for something, you know what I mean? Looking for something. Todd: Yeah, Sam, get me a cup of coffee with you. All right. I can take Craig: a hint. Uh, Todd: and I thought, Oh yeah, that’s interesting. You know, it’s this kind of plays with this notion that, well, a, you know, a woman who dresses up in a quote unquote super sexy way is looking for guys to get on her, but also like black women in the U S have historically also been hyper-sexualized. And I felt like there was a little bit of that, you know, kind of nudging right there. There they’re little comments like that. That kind of remind you. Oh yeah. There’s. There’s like racism going on here, even though the white characters and the black characters in this movie, like in the police station are, are clearly working together. There doesn’t seem to be any of that kind of tension. These little comments undermine that. Right. Craig: I just think that that’s such an excellent. Commentary on society. And I doubt that they were going for social commentary. It’s just a representation of how things were and probably how things are like Dr. E you are using his last name. We’re going to confuse people because I always called him Dr. Thomas cause everybody, his first name is Thomas. Um, but he works closely with this white detective and they seem to have a very solid rapport, you know, like mutual respect for one another. But when Thomas, you know, he’s talking about all of these different deaths and he’s like, I know they’re connected somehow. I know there’s some connection and his white friend is like, but a lot of Panther Todd: activity, Craig: legged Panthers, come on, Jack. Don’t cop out. To get interior decorators and a lady cab driver Panthers. Come on. Uh, no. Why? Why wouldn’t you just automatically think, but like, I just feel like it’s that dynamic, like the white guy just automatically jumps to, Oh well it’s gang related or it’s black Panther related or what? Like, they just jumped to these racist. Conclusions, but I also liked that there was a strong black voice there to say, no, you idiot. What is wrong with you? Todd: It’s funny. I didn’t realize, uh, until later that, um, I had to kind of put all this together because I was still trying to work out the relationship with the girls. It’s just not spelled out for you right at the beginning, but actually his wife. Also works with him. So here she is, again, to see a black person in a role like this just wasn’t that common this time as well. So she, by the way, she’s gorgeous that woman, I want to be my girlfriend. And, uh, I just couldn’t stop thinking about that. The whole movie. Her eyes are piercing and her name is Denise, Nicholas, and she’s still with us. And she was working all the way up until 2004. And she has a gosh, a huge filmography of television and movies. That pretty much, I mean, he, she did a couple TV series before this movie, but then after this movie, she was doing a lot more. I think this movie had a lot to do with boosting her career a bit. I mean, she’s like in the love boat and Benson and all the, I mean, she looked familiar to me, so I got to know. Oh, and then, um, in 1990 there was a bill Cosby movie called ghost dad, and she was Joan in ghost dad. So. Yeah, she probably would look familiar to you too. And then I’ve got to say that the chief, uh, his name is Gordon Pinsent and he is probably the most accomplished of everybody here. He’s also still with us and still working. He’s got 150 credits to his name and, uh, he’s very recognizable. At least I thought he was, and he’s been. All over television and movies, just like anything you can imagine this guy’s been in. So it’s interesting that this movie as low budget, as cheap as it was still ended up with these stars that either were already making names for themselves at the time, or would therefore then go on to make some names for themselves. Yeah, I Craig: saw that too. I looked, you know, I didn’t know any of these actors. I thought some of them looked somewhat familiar, but I, you know, I looked at their pages, their Wikipedia pages and, and most of them, the lead people that I looked at had, you know, dozens, if not, you know, a hundred or more credits, these are solid working actors. Um, w one of the things that I thought was fine. Okay. So basically what happens. At this point is Manuel de is, is in pursuit of Tina and Dr. Thomas is investigating the murders. And I think that this is really kind of stupid. Todd: Yeah, Craig: everybody, all of our main characters just happened to be. Super close knit. Like exactly like there in a group of like five or six people who are around each other all the time, Manuel, they goes to the club that they hang out at and meets up with them. Tina’s immediately. Enamored with him for, I guess, because of like, what do they call that would have vampires have thrall or Todd: what it’s the only thing you could have, you could say. I mean, why else would she be so enamored with this guy? Right, right, Craig: right. This weird, much older than her man who walks around wearing a Cape. Um, But they’re all very, very closely tied to one another. When I said they all meet at this club, I think we would be remiss if we didn’t talk about the musical. Numbers. Yes. Um, there, there are musical performances in this club, these like R and B numbers and, and the score is very like funk and R and B too, which is typical as I understand it, of these movies. Um, and it’s good, you know, I like it. I thought that the first. Time, we were in the club and they basically gave us a full live music video. I thought it was a little excessive. It wasn’t that I didn’t like the music. I thought the music was great. I just thought it was like, okay, I get it. I don’t Todd: need to see them. Craig: Um, yeah, but they’re all very closely knit and there’s a photographer in the club, like one of the old fashioned kind of like cigarette girls. Who’s like in like a skimpy. Kind of costume and she’s going around taking pictures and she takes pictures. She takes a picture of Tina and mama Waldo is like trying to get away from her. Like he doesn’t want his picture taken and she goes back home to develop the pictures. And I love me a dark room scene, by the way. I just love that red lighting. I love it realizes that, uh, he doesn’t appear in the images and the pictures and she hears something that’s going on. And this, I think. There are two, but this I think was my favorite shot of the movie where her, her dark room, isn’t really a room. It’s just a curtain off place in her apartment. And she hears something and she throws open the curtains and mama while they is standing there in full vamp mode. And when he vamps out, he like grows like. Pork chop sideburns and a beard. It’s kind of weird Todd: eyebrows. Yeah. Craig: But he’s, he’s standing there with his arms outstretched and I don’t know how they did it. I don’t know if they did it with a Dolly or if he just stood on a skateboard and they pulled it or what, but he just very quickly glides towards her very menacing and she’s screaming and it’s, you know, in this red light. And I actually found that moment, which is maybe all of them. Three seconds legitimately scary. If I had seen that when I was a kid, I think I might’ve had knife Todd: Ruth. You, there are a few jump scares in this movie. They’re not all effective, but that was probably the, one of the most effective ones I thought. Craig: Yeah. There’s another one where like they’ve got the cab driver. On ice in the morgue. Eventually Dr. Thomas figures out that they’re vampires, he digs up one of the gay guys, one of the gay guys bodies went missing, but the other gay guy was, was married or not married. Um, and, and they dug him up. And as soon as they dug him up, he jumped out and he was a vampire and they staked him right away. And so. Uh, Dr. Thomas knows it’s vampires now. And so he calls the Morgan, tells the. Dumb more attendance and pull the cab driver off ice, which he does, but he doesn’t lock the door as he was adamantly instructed to do. And so like, while he’s on the phone with somebody else, that lady bursts out of the room, that she is screaming and, you know, again with like her arms out and all vamped out, I thought that was scary too. That was the second. My second favorite part. Todd: That scene was awesome. And actually the director, William Crane talked about that in the documentary. He said, you know, when he was filming this. Sometimes he wasn’t getting a lot of help from people. And when he walked into that police station, he saw this really long hallway. He was like, I need a fast speed camera, which is basically a slow motion. Camera pulls the poles, the film through really quickly at a high frame rate, which then you play back at a slower frame rate. And it gives you slow motion. He kept asking for an asking for an asking for it and they weren’t going to give it to him. And then on the day that they went to film that suddenly another van pulled up and offloaded a high-speed camera for him. And it’s because up top they started seeing the dailies and liking what they saw. So they decided to give him that. And it’s a great effect right? In slow motion. It was Craig: really cool. Yeah. There’s kind of a cool showdown in like, okay, so they, the police spot, Bobby, who was the gay guy whose body went missing and they follow him and they track him down to like this abandoned warehouse. It’s not abandoned. I guess it’s just a warehouse. It’s where big gay guys had had all of Dracula’s stuff. Taken, they went in there and I expected they were going to just find him, but they had talked about how vampirism spreads like wildfire when they get in there. They do find Bobby, but there’s also like probably a dozen or more other vampires. Again, looking fantastic. It’s old-school makeup and like big fangs. And the makeup is just a lot of shading and green and blue and stuff. Yeah. And, and like really highlighting the cheekbones and making them, you know, look exactly. Um, but it looks fantastic and I love it. And there’s this big showdown in a big fight and they ended up throwing unlit oil lamps on the floor that just then, okay. And I don’t know, but I mean, it was cool. It was cool to see all these vampires running around and golfed and flames. Yeah. Eventually the guy figures out that it’s Memorial day, who he knows because he’s, he’s dating his sister in Todd: law. Not only does he know, but his sister knew a long time. His sister-in-law knew a long time ago. I mean, cause he goes over to her apartment and through his charms or whatever tells him everything. He just lays it all out in one long monologue and like this crazy thing. Yeah. I’m actually from the 17 hundreds and I was his Prince and I went to see Dracula. I mean, he lays out everything and my, why don’t you feel it too? You know, and all that. And then she was like, yeah, yeah, yeah. Then they like have sex. And so she’s smitten with him, but they have. All started camping out together at the chief’s house. So that has been kind of keeping the sister separated from him. And I’m not sure he knows exactly where she is or at least he doesn’t get to her once they Craig: figure it all out. Like, uh, mama Waldo and Tina are together in her apartment. But Dr. Thomas in with the police and Manuel de fleas, and like, they try to talk to Tina. They’re like, Listen, I don’t care how you feel about him. He’s a bad guy. He’s killed a bunch of people and like, she feels kind of conflicted for a second, but then she’s in her room and we’ve also seen the black ULA can turn into a bat and fly around. He’s like up on top of a building and I guess he reaches out to her. Telepathically and tells her to meet him. And she does, she goes out the window and they meet up and they’re going to re I, it just seems like they’re going to run away together. Dr. Thomas and the police somehow track them down to this old building. I don’t know, like. The whole building’s not underground, but the part of it that they’re in is, and it Todd: looks chemical facility. I imagine they, they wanted a big Gothic type end sequence for this, but of course, to make it urban, what’s the most Gothic kind of like passageways and crazy stuff. You could find. It’s it’s this big, underground chemical processing facility that more or less looks like, uh, you know, we’re, Freddie has his showdown in all these pipes and. Ramps and staircases and stuff everywhere. Craig: Yeah, really? Mama Waldy and Tina, they’re just trying to get away, but they’re running away and a cop starts shooting at them and shoots Tina in the back. Like, yeah, dude, Todd: that was messed up. It was Craig: messed up. And I felt it, it was sad and like mama, while they kneels down over and he’s like, do you know if this is the only way you will be with me? And he bites her bit while he’s biting her? It looked to me like she died. Like he had tried to turn her, but it was too late. And that’s what it seems like happened because then he stands up and he yells Dr. Thomas, uh, I curse you and everybody else that’s helping you. And everybody who is in this building will die. And then he goes around and, and starts picking them off one by one. And I don’t remember everything he does. He electrocutes one, he throws one off. Like a big ledge Todd: and he plays donkey Kong on another one, tossing barrels from the top of Craig: and meanwhile, Dr. Thomas and his police chief. Friend are looking around and they find a coffin and they assume he’s in it. So Dr. Thomas opens it while the police chief like has a stake held up above his head. And as soon as they open it, he stabs the stake down and it’s not mama Waldy it’s vampire Tina. So apparently the change did work. But now she’s staked and she’s dead at which point mama, while they shows back up and he’s like, well, I don’t have any reason to live. Todd: I was kind of lame, right. I mean, it was a little pathetic. I mean, I get it, I get the whole notion, but he just gives up and, uh, I guess he would he’s didn’t want to be a vampire. This isn’t Dracula, right? This is black ULA and a Uganda gave up his chance and he climbed up the staircase. And actually, I thought it was a pretty good, well edited sequence of shots with the sun, him. And they did these interesting things with the sunlight. It was one of the more RD points of the movie, but at the ad, he just collapses at the top of the staircase on the ground, outside in the middle of this industrial facility. It was so sadly anticlimactic and maybe that’s. The point that it would just kind of be that pathetic. But, um, he, yeah, he dissolves away. His face kind of dissolves away and them to a bone and then we get the end credits and that’s it. I, you know, like I said before, the movie was boring at times, but I think a it’s because of seeing. Dracula story. I know what’s going to happen more or less. And then B Dracula is kind of a low key story anyway. So, uh, you know, would naturally be action packed and filled with a, with, with a lot of scares all the time. And then, you know, this other part of it was. How quickly he just seduces Tina and she just goes along with it. You know, she’s just like little silly. I mean, that happens so early in the movie that this point then when it gets to her having this mental power over her and he’s a bat and then she’s kind of wandering around and they’re trying to find her before Dracul can get to her. I was kind of like, eh, let them get her, you know, it seems like they’d be happy together there. She knows what she’s getting into. They’re both kind of fine Craig: with it. She’s a grown woman. Yeah, Todd: exactly. So that tension really wasn’t there for me. And so, um, it just became a tragic love story, I guess you Craig: could call it. And all of, all of that, you know, the seduction of this reincarnation of the timeless love or whatever, I mean, that’s true to the store to Bram. Stoker’s. Source material. Arguably, it’s more nuanced in the novel, but there’s no nuance here, but I mean, it’s, it’s not necessarily any more believable. So yeah, I mean it had its silly elements overall. I just thought. It was, as far as movies go, it was fine. I didn’t love it. I, you know, it, it felt very much a product of its time. It felt like an older movie that, like you said, the cinematography is pretty pedestrian. There’s nothing special to talk about it. There’s not much by way of effects. I liked the makeup, but it wasn’t like it was. Extraordinary. Um, there were some interesting things, uh, that they did with lighting. I think what’s most notable is, you know, the fact that, uh, this is, uh, uh, a black film starring primarily black actors with a black director. And in that respect very different than. Other things that were happening in 1972 and four, I was going to say surprisingly, but that’s not what I meant. People were surprised at the time. That it did very well. It was one of the highest grossing films of 1972. Um, it was very successful and critically well received for the most part. Todd: It was, I think it was a mixed bag on the critical, but yeah, a lot of people, a number of critics at the time, you know, were really impressed by it. But I mean, I think it’s worth pointing out. It can’t be that high grossing without white people going to see it too, you know? I mean, it wasn’t just. And, and it was the true of a lot of these movies, big reason why they were so successful as, Hey, it turned out, you know, what maybe white people also would like to see these, this kind of story and these kinds of characters. And so, uh, it really was groundbreaking in that way. And, um, mama wall day ended up being the first black vampire to appear in films. So it is it’s pretty historical. And then he went on. I mean, I don’t know if you recognized him, but, uh, did you ever watch PeeWee’s Playhouse growing up? On Saturday morning. Yes. I think of cartoons, buddy. Craig: Clarius I knew I recognized him. I missed that because his list of things he’s been in was so long, I skimmed through it. I totally missed that. Hilarious. You know, that ultimately how fortunate we are that, uh, These types of movies, regardless of their exploitative nature paved the way for not just black people, but people of color, nonwhite people to have a place in Hollywood and cinema in general. And we have a long way to go. As far as race relations, go. In the United States. I’m so sad to say it it’s embarrassing, frankly, but we have a long way to go. But I do think that progress is, is hopefully being made and will continue to be made. And there are a lot of prominent names in cinema and in the entertainment industry. Uh, a lot of black voices, voices of people of color. We are seeing, you know, some reemergence of horror films because that’s really, you know what I watch, I, I’m not going to speak for other genres, but that, that are made by people of color, focus on people of color, Jordan Peele, you know, with get out and us and, and he’s got all kinds of other. Projects in the works. You know, I feel like he’s trailblazing in that way, but he’s not alone. It’s necessary. Uh, there needs to be that kind of representation. And it’s not just about representation. It’s about the fact that. People of different cultures and races and backgrounds have voices and have something to say, and it’s not just, they’re not just black movies, they’re movies and the whitest of white guys like you and I they’re there for our consumption too. And they should be, and they need to be, and, and, you know, it just makes things feel more inclusive. And the more of that, that we can get. The better. So I hope to continue to see that kind of, um, representation and that’s that’s for any minority group, any disenfranchised group, not necessarily just people of color, but specifically people of color. I want to see more of it. I know that most people do. Um, and I’m glad that it’s happening. Well, Todd: we need more stories in the world, period, as many, right? And is widely varied as possible from these stories. We gain perspective. I don’t know how true this is, but there are studies, obviously there was a pretty famous study that was done fairly recently. I read about a few years ago and I would like to think that this is true anyway, because I am a reader. It said that people who read. Uh, tend to be more empathetic postulating. Why that might be is if you actually literally spend time in someone else’s head in someone else’s story and someone else’s narrative for awhile, you can begin to see things from their perspective, perhaps. And then that opens you up to the ability to do that on a regular basis. And so yeah, the more stories we have from the widest variety of places we have, I think just in general, as a population, as a race, as a human race, right. The more empathetic we can be and maybe solve a lot of these problems. So I Craig: I agree. A hundred percent. Todd: All right. Well, thank you so much for listening to this episode. If you enjoyed it, please share it with a friend. You can find us. Online, two guys that read forties at.com, just Google us two guys in the chainsaw. You can also find our Facebook page and our Twitter feed, send us requests and, uh, just drop us a line. Let us know what you will want to hear and what you thought of our episode until next time. I’m Todd and I’m Craig with two guys and a chainsaw. The post Blacula appeared first on 2 Guys & A Chainsaw.
60 minutes | 3 months ago
My Bloody Valentine
Happy Valentine's Day! February 14th is coming, and that means curling up with a loved one to watch a group of miners and their girlfriends get pickaxed to bits by a crazed killer in retaliation for an incident that happened on Valentine's Day 20 years ago. Or at least, that's how WE celebrate the holiday. How about you? Expand to read episode transcript Automatic Transcript My Bloody Valentine (1981) Episode 247, 2 Guys and a Chainsaw Todd: Hello and welcome to another episode of Two guys And a Chainsaw. I’m Todd Craig: and I’m Craig. Todd: Well, you know Craig, in as many years as we’ve been doing this podcast and coming up close to our 250th episode. Most of our listeners know that, when it comes time for holiday seasons, we try to find horror movies that fit. We like to do these themed movies around the holidays. And I tell you what every single time February 14th comes and goes. I look back and go crap. Why have we not done my bloody Valentine yet? Yeah, Craig: I know. It’s weird. Like we’re, we’re kind of big dorks about our holiday themes. It’s it’s, it’s pretty shocking. I’m pretty sure this is our first Valentine’s day episode. Todd: There aren’t that many to choose from as far as I know. I mean, we’re all, I always say that. And then we’re kind of surprised when we go looking, but this one is very much definitely geared towards Valentine’s day and we’re doing the 1981 version, not the, my bloody Valentine 3d remake that was done. What, like a decade ago, something like that. Because of course we like to do the originals and this movie really came on the heels of a lot of holiday theme movies. In fact, that’s what the producers had in mind actually a year before this was Friday the 13th, right? Yeah. And then there was, you know, black Christmas and prom night and, or actually I think it was released this very same year. These very same producers did a happy birthday to me, which, uh, we’ll have to do also. I remember seeing that one on the shelves and, uh, wanting to see it never did and thought. I don’t know. Well, we do it for your birthday or my birthday. How are we gonna, I don’t know. It will Craig: flip a coin Todd: so stupid, but anyway, this movie is apparently Quentin Tarantino’s. Favorite slasher film. Didn’t do that well on release. I mean it wasn’t horrible. I think it had a budget of about $2.3 million and it made 5.6 million. But considering that Friday, the 13th, the year before also released by paramount made like three times that much, they considered it a disappointment. And so when they were approached for a sequel, It just didn’t happen. Um, and again, it wasn’t until 2009, I think somewhere Craig: around there. I don’t know. I mean, the director didn’t even pitch a sequel until like 2000 something. Right. Like, I’m pretty sure they didn’t pitch it Todd: until way late. It’s true. But the movie kind of sets itself up. I mean, it, it ends in a way that it has to SQL, could be made and I’m sure they had that in mind and clearly didn’t go anywhere at the time. Yeah. Nor did it many years later. Yeah. Craig: I saw the remake. Did you know Todd: how was it? Uh, Craig: I remember it being okay. And that’s about all I remember about it. It was, you know, it’s one of those movies that I saw once I thought it was okay. I was never compelled to see it again. It had a lot of really beautiful people in it, and I remember it being kind of. Twisty. And so I was, I had not seen this original, the sitting down to watch this for the podcast was the first time I had seen this. And because I had remembered the first one being kind of twisty, I expected this one to be twisty too. And it was. Kind of, but there’s just kind of like, you know, one kind of twist at the end that, I mean, if you’re not terribly dense, you can kind of figure out, I guess, I don’t know. I guess I’m terribly dense because I didn’t know, by the end who the killer was, I had suspicions. And then when it. Was revealed. I was like, Oh yeah, that works Todd: pinned on two guys. And then as the movie went on, I thought, okay, maybe it’s not him. Or maybe it is him. And I was bouncing back and forth. And one of the other, you know, killer ended up being one of those two guys. So I can’t take a lot of credit for that 50, 50, um, proposition there. I, you know, I think you do a little more research for these before going into the movie than I tend to do. I don’t know how much research you did for this movie before you went in. But, um, I always that afterwards we both go in and we read up a lot more about it. And one of my go-to is, is Roger Ebert. Yeah. I like to see if he reviewed the movie at that time. And he and gene Siskel on their television program indeed reviewed this movie and. It’s a riot because they just hate everything about it. And what they really hate is that this time, 1981, that this was just another formulaic slasher movie to them. Craig: Yeah. Was it only two years ago that we were praising a movie called Halloween. We thought it was kind of nice. Had some style and whip to it. This movie is about the seventh direct Todd: rip off of Halloween and new year’s Craig: Eve or prom night, Friday, the 13th terror train. We’re all on the same formula. Something terrible happens 20 years ago, 10 years ago, then there’s a party and all the teenagers get together in the same place. They all train or the old deserted mind or something. And the buzzard maniac comes down on him with a knife or a pickax or something. It’s. First of all it’s disgusting. Secondly, it’s so appallingly lacking in imagination. You would think that they could at least come up with a new discussing angle. Yeah. I’m sitting there. Why Todd: these people get involved in these films? I mean, what are the women think who are getting pickaxes thrown at them? What do they think they’re contributing to art? And I also, as you rattled off that list of names, I’m thinking of all those hours, we’ve both logged in movie theaters, slumped over in our seats, just shaking our heads. Well, I wish this trend will really end. Not teenagers in this movie, actually, they’re adults in this movie, which is I couldn’t for Craig: the life of me, figure out how old these people were supposed to be. In my, in my notes, I kept referring to them as the kids, because like, that’s their stereotypical, like they’re the kids of the slasher movie, but some of them look like they’re in their forties. So no idea. Todd: Well, they’re like adults that act like 13 year olds, the way that some of the drama between, you know, there’s a little love triangle angle in here and stuff like that. And I was kind of rolling my eyes at some of this stuff, how silly and overly dramatic these people were towards each other. Craig: And it’s really stupid on the one hand, but on another hand, I feel like it’s and not to get too deep about it, but like, it almost seemed a little bit cultural because it’s like these people live in this tiny mining town where it seems like the mine is where you’re going to work. If you’re a Todd: dude. Yeah. And I liked that about Craig: this. Yeah, I did too. I kind of understood the dynamic. Like it seemed to me like most of these men and I guess the, the women that follow them around, it almost seems like they’re kind of suspended in time in their lives. So, you know, like they graduate high school and then they work in the mine. That’s just it. So maybe there’s not a whole lot of opportunity for mature growth and maturation, right? Like they’re just kind of suspended there, you Todd: know, point. And I’m glad you brought that up because that was one of the things, you know, both you and I have spent a considerable amount of our lives and childhoods in small Midwestern. Town that is in many ways, culturally, not unlike this place. And I thought that the representation of it at times it was a little bit of a Groaner. Like there’s one point in which these guys all get together in a junkyard and they’re hanging out in the junkyard and they’re like grilling meat on somebody’s radiator of their car and playing karma. That’s uh, I don’t know who’s who wrote that in, but that’s a little Craig: silly, I don’t know. It’s quaint like and you’re right. Like, no, in my Midwestern hometown, I don’t believe that people stand around a car engine to heat up their sandwiches, but there definitely is. You know, kind of a small town culture where people congregate, you know, in fields or on old farms or whatever, like that’s what kids do. Or when I was their age, I don’t know if they still do. Maybe they’re just on their phones now. I don’t know. But yeah, that, I mean, just kind of getting together and hanging out and drinking. Like you, that was, that was very typical of my high school experience. Todd: Yeah. I mean, and this was filmed in Nova Scotia and a town, apparently that is full of mines, like abandoned mines, Craig: this story that they filmed it in this actual small mining town and the small mining town was so excited by the prospect of. Uh, movie filming in their town. They thought it was going to draw in tourism. Like it was going to stimulate their economy and they were so excited about it, that they spent like $50,000 to totally clean up. Their mind to make it look as good as it could. And the whole reason that the induction team had chosen this place was because of the look of the mine. They wanted it to look, you know, kind of run down and the town spent all this money to clean it up. And then the production company came in and spent even more money. Like $75,000 to put it back the way it was before Todd: I’m going to get black. Breguet dirt. Devin’s crazy, right. Craig: Oh, I love it. That’s such a great story. Todd: Great story. But yeah, works. I mean, for me, the setting worked and maybe because I’m familiar with these people, I thought there were some, there were some silly moments, like I mentioned about the junkyard scene where it’s a little over the top, but. Honestly, like you said, the relationship between these people kind of suspended from before the bar that they go to, you know, the kind of dive bar where it seems like everybody gathers the characters in here and the kinds of things that a small town like this gets excited about, you know, every small town has their festival or two a that’s just cute and quaint. And this one, this town is Valentine’s. Bluff. It makes a big deal. A lot of Valentine’s day, I loved this. I thought all of this stuff was actually kind of nice and set it apart a little bit from those other horror movies where you don’t see much of the relationship between the characters. It’s just like, Oh, these, these are a whole bunch of couples and young people that got together and they’re at a summer camp and then they get killed. The setting drew me in and the mine. Setting really drew me in like the descent, you know, I’m, I’m watching this movie and half of it, I’m thinking, just being down there in that mind is scary. It’s deepest as they are, especially toward the end of the movie where they’re running away and they got to go through all this crazy stuff. Sometimes just the. The fact that they have to crawl through these difficult passages that could collapse on them. These dangerous sections of the mind that have been closed off. At one point, they have to climb a ladder. That’s just in a shaft that’s I don’t know what miles deep or something, and I could not handle that. All of that kind of work. I mean, it doesn’t work. Don’t get me wrong to the same level of the descent. But, um, it was present in there and always kind of in the back of my mind, that little bit of claustrophobia and that worked for me too. I appreciated Craig: that. Yeah. And I appreciate the fact that they, they filmed this. In minds, the, these were real minds that they filmed it in and they even had to be careful with the type of lighting equipment that they used, because there really was a legitimate threat of like methane explosions. Crazy. And that’s cool. It looks cool. It didn’t give me descent vibes just because the descent was so claustrophobic and this is actually very open. Like the shafts are quite large and they get into some areas where it’s, you know, these huge underground rooms and caverns or whatever. So I didn’t get that claustrophobic feel, but the realism of it. Was cool. Yeah. And I liked that, that scene that you’re talking about when they’re climbing the ladder. I don’t know that I would have appreciated that this much, Todd let’s travel down memory lane second to the delight. Of our listeners who will have no idea what we’re talking about. Did Todd: this last during ghost keeper, when we were trying to kill time, tell me about that trip to Nova Scotia. Craig: Me Todd and I went to the same university and we both participated in performances, musical and theatrical performances. And one of our main performance spaces was an auditorium, which was run by a dear friend of ours. Randy. And in that auditorium on the stage, I’m sure that all, you know, theaters are like this, but at one point I was in another play in an adjoining theater. Um, but I had a lot of downtime and so I was just exploring lot. And I explored the tunnels underneath the university, but that’s a story for another podcast. This story is about how one time I gave myself the courage to climb the ladder into the flies above the auditorium. Todd: You know what I’m saying? I know the ladder you’re talking about and you would make, and Craig: like it had, it had bars like all around it. So like, I guess to maybe potentially catch you if you fell backwards or something, but it was so high. And I remember getting hit half way up looking down and be like, what am I do? This is a nightmare. But considering that, that was maybe two, three stories maybe. Um, and, and thinking about these, I was so annoyed with this one girl who was. Freaking out the whole time that they were climbing up this ladder, the shut up, just keep climbing in the back of my mind. I’m like I get it because I didn’t tell him this. It is scary as hell. Todd: Oh, I’ve done this too. I, you know, I was renovating a building once and we had, um, a multi-level of scaffolding out in front. And by the time I got close to the top and I was just cheerfully climbing and I realized where I was and how little was around me. And how far I had to go to the ground. I was doing exactly what she did. My arm was like grip and lift around Nepal. I’m like, Oh shit, what do I do now? I’m not, you know, Heights are just not my friend in those types of situations. I’m not a fan of Heights. So, but you know, the cinematography. Is quite good. And for the fact that they filmed all this down in this dark mind, a lot of these horror movies that we watch, there’s just so much darkness. You just can’t see what’s going on or appreciate it. They did a really good job. I think of lighting this in, in shooting this in a way that you could see what was going on, but it still had tons of Atmos. I mean, yeah. The movie starts out in the middle, which is great. There are these very cantilevered shots and this angle kind of coming up at them. They’re really off-kilter of these two people who are going through the mind and we don’t see who they are because they’re, you know, in head to toe, like not just mine gear, but they have what’s this like a face mask kind of gas mask kind of oxygen mask. Yeah, I guess with these glass, you know, it’s kind of a cross between the old timey, uh, goggles that Wright, biplane pilots used to wear. Right. But then connected to just a mouth thing, like a cane and fricking bathroom with a hose, with a hose. And the sounds, the Darth Vader sounds coming from it just they’re breathing with a helmet and then these full body suits, they’re like Hasbro black hazmat suits, essentially gloves on boots. And they’re just walking in there, they’re carrying axes and they get to this deep. Part of the mine and they turn around and face each other. And your first twist of the movie is a, one of them starts disrobing. And it turns out as a woman, a Craig: beautiful woman with no top on, like, why doesn’t she have a shirt on underneath? I mean, she’s not totally topless. She has a bra on, but I just have. Beautiful woman with heart tattoo on breast Todd: and lots of habits. My favorite part Craig: about this scene. It’s like she takes off her mask and kind of disrobed to the waist. And then she’s like kind of being seductive with the other guy. And she goes to take off his mask, but he won’t let her. And so she’s like stroking his face and then she starts fondling his face hose the most Justin way you can possibly imagine. And I thought that it was so. Funny. Like she was like strongly and slowly jerking off his face. Oh my God. Todd: So funny getting heavier. Right. And the guy has The guy had stabbed an ax to the wall. Like it’s an ax with the back end of it. Yeah. Pick ax. Then they’re con she’s a kind of, I think kind of about to take his mask off or whatever. And then it’s quite sudden that suddenly you realize he’s pushed her up against the wall over the point of that pickax, because all you see is kind of scream and the point of the pickax come out of her chest, right. Where that. Heart tattoo is that was a effective opening scene. Craig: Good opening. I liked it. It left me with questions. Is this girl, why does nobody noticed that she’s missing later? Like why Todd: did they come this far down just to make out Craig: right. But. You’re right. I thought it was a great opening. Um, and then we get into the main point of the movie and it’s like two days before Valentine’s day and we meet all these miners. These guys are our main characters and there’s a shower scene. Like, so I guess they come out of the mind. And this may be true. I don’t know. I’ve never worked in a mine. I’ve never toured a mine, but like, it’s kind of a whole facility. Like they’ve got like a rec room and they’ve got like a shower room, probably Todd: true. It’s all above ground. Craig: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, they come out of the mines and they’re all covered. It never says what kind of mind this is. People suppose that it’s a coal mine, which would make sense. It’s fine. It doesn’t really matter, but they come out and they’re all dirty. And so they all shower together. There’s Todd: lots of byplay Craig: it’s so right. It’s so silly. Like it Todd: is pretty Craig: silly. I. For my own reasons avoided the communal showers in high school. But I can’t imagine that there were really like this. I mean, these are grown men again, again, they’re cut. I mean, they do this every day and again, they may be kind of suspended in like late adolescents, high school age, or whatever, as far as their maturity goes, but like there Todd: goofing around, Craig: messing around and like, Like touching each other and pushing each other around and snap and towels and stuff. I’m like, do you guys do this every day? It’s this really amusing all the time I read it, that all of these dudes were really. Naked. And I thought what a lost opportunity, because we only see them from the chest up. Todd: Well, there’s no nudity in this movie, which blew me away. I couldn’t believe. Not only did they have all these naked guys, but they had a bunch of beautiful girls. None of whom I think were wearing bras. I noticed that, but. Not a single boob. And again, like we said, last week, we don’t care, you know, ultimately, but it’s just kind of shocking for an early eighties horror movie. That’s trying to check all the boxes, you know, and compete with Friday the 13th. Right. Craig: That’s something else that’s interesting about this movie is that it is rated R and in fact, they had to edit it. Heavily to get an R rating. And it’s not that graphic, like you said, there’s no nudity. I don’t even remember there being a ton of swearing. Now, some of the death scenes are somewhat graphic, but certainly not more so than other movies of the time. Apparently there had been a lot of backlash against the graphic violence in Friday the 13th. And. Right before the release of this movie, or right before they sent it to the NPAA John Lennon had been killed and there had been a lot of scrutiny about violence in film. So they had to cut seemingly everything. Like I didn’t read about this until after I had watched a movie. And when I was watching the movie, I noticed because it’s obvious. That every kill scene, Luke, the quality of the footage changes drastically. So any, any time there’s graphic violence on the screen, it’s a significantly different and significantly lesser quality. I read after that, they had made them cut all that. And I thought, well, no wonder the movie tanked. They cut off all of the good stuff. Like if I had watched this and. All of those scenes had been absent. I would have thought it was a piece of shit. Todd: In fact, I read one of the contemporary reviews and it was basically trashing the movie saying, Oh, it’s just like all those other movies that are coming out now, but at least they had the good taste to have most of the violence happen off screen. And I’m like, yeah, well, you know, you insert the three minutes of footage. I think it’s two and a half minutes of footage was restored. The director originally said that like nine minutes. Had to be cut from the movie to gain MPA approval, but then later on, uh, Lionsgate licensed the film from paramount to release a special edition DV, a Blu-ray I think just to prepare for their, my bloody Valentine 3d coming out in 2009. And when they did that, they actually restored about two and a half minutes actually. And that’s what we saw. So those little restored bits were from prints and not found in the original negative. So that’s why they, you know, were changed in, but it’s good for us because we can see what was missing. And it turns out that. The director admitted later, he said they restored almost everything. As far as the, the Gore and stuff goes and the extra six minutes or whatever, um, was just like additional scenes between the characters, nothing gory, nothing bloody. And he said, this film is now I think, what does he say? 85% of what it’s supposed to be. And 90% of how scary it’s supposed Craig: to be. I don’t know. Yeah, there, there was one scene that was too far deteriorated for them. To put back in, which is unfortunate because we see the aftermath of it and it’s very, it’s gruesome. But the thing that bothers me about that now is that people who saw this originally really missed out because not only why, yeah, I’m going into a horror film, I want to see the carnage. That’s one thing, but the special effects are really quite well done. I mean, they’re, they’re, they’re practical effects and it’s very, very obvious that. You know, in places they were using dummies and things, but I don’t care. I like that stuff. And just the notion of it being completely absent. I mean, without it. You could show this on TV in the afternoon. Yeah. Todd: A hundred percent. Right? There’s not even, I think there was one F-bomb in the movie. You blew up that out and you’ve got a PG movie and to be fair, those, okay. So we’re talking about the unedited version that we saw compared to even compared to a lot of the contemporary stuff at this time, these are pretty brutal scenes. The kills are creative and we’ll be going through them in a moment I promise, but the kills are creative and they’re pretty brutal and extended. And at least one of them turned my stomach a bit. At least one of them was like, okay, that’s really disturbing. So it actually had that going for it. Yeah. Uh, so it’s a, it’s a real shame, you know, as a horror movie that it did, it got, you know, neutered in that way. Craig: And I made a lot of the guys showering. It’s not important. I just thought it was such a silly scene, but it establishes, you know, all these guys basically who are going to be falling around. The only significant thing that happens in there is that one guy makes a joke about the fact that, okay, so there’s one, this main guy named TJ. Who apparently has been gone for reasons that we don’t know initially, but it’s so stupid. Who cares? Like I tried to, well, he tried to escape his small town life and go off to the West coast or something, but he failed miserably. Like I have no idea, you know, what he was trying to do. I hope he wasn’t trying to be an actor because he’s. Ugly. Todd: Let me, let me put out a theory that I haven’t read anywhere online, but I was thinking about during the whole movie, I was like of all of these hardcore heavy miners TG seems like the least quote, unquote, manly of the group. At one point he has like a scarf tied around his neck and I thought. Maybe what they were trying to imply is that he went out to the West coast to escape his very conservative, not so liberal town and try to make it in a big city where he might be more accepted. Is that a big stretch or was it just, I mean, I thought it was quite noticeable. His delivery, everything kind of about him was a Craig: little, I don’t Todd: know. Uh, I mean he has a girlfriend or a girlfriend that he left behind named Sarah, uh, and Sarah. The thing that we hear about in the shower here is that he left and since then Axel has, uh, taken Sarah they’re dating. And that’s pretty much it, I guess, just kind of in the early throws of dating. And so when TJ comes back, he’s kind of pissed and there’s a little bit of this triangle, this kind of love story between the three of them, but it’s, it’s really Craig: silly. It was so convoluted. It was so stupid and unnecessary. Like it was just unnecessary plot complications. Like nobody cares about this stupid law triangle. They, they work it so Todd: hard. They do. But I think I’ll argue that they did it for a reason because later in the story, the two of them are forced to kind of be together to kind of help save the day. Craig: I appreciated that, that when they both realized that Sarah was in danger, they. Through their differences aside and they worked together to try to help their friends. Great, fine. I know it, I mean, it’s so typical and cliched and like there were scenes throughout the movie where like at first, you know, Axel, first of all is a very attractive man. He’s very tall masculine. Very good looking. Whereas TJ, I thought was. Kind of ugly Todd: axle. He is working hard. This man has tons of credits, not just working, but directing. He was in scanners before this. And now it seems like he’s been doing a lot of work in animation. He was working on the Simpsons. Rug rats Craig: doing like back behind the scenes production Todd: stuff or voicing directing many episodes. Wow, good for him. Yeah. And I think he kind of started on the Simpsons, like in the literal animation, like he was an in-between or something like that and kind of got into directing. So yeah, he’s, he’s still working. It’s kind of cool. I liked Craig: the actor. In fact, like I couldn’t tell what the movie, I think that the movie wanted us to want Sarah to get back with TJ. Like, you know, they they’re like these star crossed lovers who had hit a bump in the road, but now they’re gonna get back together. I like to axle. I thought he was a cool guy. I thought that she was kind of a dope for even. You know, this guy, TJ, they have this whole scene where first of all, he abducted her from her Todd: job. Oh, TJ. Craig: And he takes her to like their spot, which. Is this beautiful scenic spot near this sea. I don’t know water Todd: be a Lake there in Nova Scotia. Right. And we’re not supposed to know that. Craig: Give me a chance. You still want me to go away? I will. I have to tell you that. I love you. I want you back. What was I supposed to know that Jessie? I honestly didn’t think you were ever coming back here. Then he kisses her and she’s receptive to it. And so like, then it’s the whole lot, like who is she going to pick? And like, TJ even like throws it in Axel’s face and like tries to force her to choose between them publicly. And she’s like, you’re a right. Dick Goff Todd: so clunky, right? Because on the one hand, she seems to be like, you know, TJ don’t do this, but on the other hand, she’s perfectly willing to submit to his charms or whatever, not really charms, but you know, his come-ons and his anger and whatever. And, and then even between axle and TJ, it’s not even always clear where they are. Dan did, or the intensity of how they feel about this. You know, they have these sort of casual conversations, like, Oh, we got something we need to talk about don’t we? Yeah, I guess we do. And then they have these like intense anger at each other for just a, he looked at her, you know, well, Craig: and their friends even comment on it. Like you guys are going to have to work this out. And at some point, TJ is like, I just don’t know what to do. I actually really liked the guy, but I, you know, like we’re in competition for this girl. Like, it’s so sad. Stupid and high school and juvenile, but, you know, I suppose if you were in the throws of it, it would be upsetting. There’s even one point it’s right after the confrontation, where after TJ and Sarah have kissed and they’re all at this Valentine’s day party, which we should probably get to pretty soon, but then all of a sudden Axel’s being really kind of aggressive and rough. With her, which I didn’t like Todd: he was kind of a Dick sometimes. I wouldn’t say he was a great guy. Craig: Well, he was getting the short end of the stick. He had this girlfriend and then the old boyfriend comes back and she’s being interested. Like, I’d be pissed too. There’s this whole confrontation. And she basically tells them that they’re both dicks and to knock it off and axle goes outside. And like, it was, I don’t know if it’s out of character, but I actually kind of appreciate it. Like he went outside, he’s drunk, but he goes outside and he just. Sits down on a crate and cries. Thank you. Big Bush guy, you know, is crying about losing his girl. And I actually felt sympathy for him. I. I wanted to give him a hug, Todd: did want to hug TJ. I know. Yeah. I didn’t really feel for that guy Craig: either the whole. Okay. So the whole story is, and I feel like it’s fine that we’re getting to it so late because it’s Todd: so simple. It is a lot of stuff happens, but the story is simple. Yes. They’re throwing Craig: a Valentine’s day dance. Everybody’s excited about it. The kids are excited about it. The town’s excited about it. The whole town is decorated. They’re decorating this dance hall, but then the police officer has the talk with the lady who’s in charge of the decorating committee. And she’s like, it’s so exciting. The first dance in 20 years. And he’s like, well, move let’s maybe not talk about that. And then we get a flashback. The reason that this is the first Valentine’s dance in 20 years is because 20 years ago they had a Valentine’s day dance as they had traditionally every year. And everybody was super excited about it. So excited about it, that the people in the mine, there were two supervisors. And they were waiting for the last crew to come up and they were so excited about the dance that they just couldn’t wait. And so they left and they didn’t check the methane levels. And there was an explosion that trapped five minors in the mine. They went through a rescue process, but when they finally reached the men. I don’t know, a week, two weeks later, something like that, only one of them had survived and he had survived by eating the rest of them and he was totally crazy. His name was Harry Morgan, so they institutionalized him and he was institutionalized for a year, but then he was released and he came back the next year to the Valentine’s day dance. And. Killed those two supervisors and warned the town that if they ever through a Valentine’s day dance again, he would come back and kill people. And so now they’re throwing this Valentine’s day dance and all of a sudden these, these heart shaped boxes keep showing up. And it is it’s kitschy. And I really Todd: like it to commit. You’re making a Valentine’s movie. You got to have as much one-time stuff as possible. Craig: It’s it’s funny because it’s consistent. Like it happens throughout the movie. Like people keep getting these boxes and the chief of police gets the first one or the mayor. I think it’s the mayor. I don’t know. It doesn’t matter. Yeah. Gets it. And there’s a human heart in it. Presumably from that girl that we saw get killed in the opening scene and this just keeps happening and the mayor and the chief and police decide that they have to shut down the Valentine’s day dance. And before they do that, there are more kills. The sweet, old lady. Gets killed. And gosh, I don’t want to rush through the kill scenes cause they’re Todd: great. Craig: Yeah. They’re fantastic. The one where she gets killed she’s in a laundry mat, I guess that she owns that she owns it. It’s all decorated for Valentine’s day, by the way, pretty Todd: overly decorated for a laundromat. Don’t shit. That’s a little, Craig: it’s a little lower top, but it’s atmospheric. I like it. And all of these boxes also come with a poem that rhymes. I I’m making this up, but I loved that. They like had a poet on the writing team and they wrote all these poems. So they all come with a poem. And so like she reads her poem and then she hears somebody in like the minor is there and he’s always in his full, minor regalia. I don’t remember how he kills her. He pickaxes most people when the police chief finds her, he finds. The box or something. And then he notices that like a lot of the Valentine’s day decorations are hanging upside down, which is weird and he notices a weird smell and he’s just looking around. And then out of one of the dryers pops her body, which looks like a dead body. That’s been in an industrial dryer for hours. Like it’s all. Yeah. Burned and nasty, like it’s, it looks so Todd: good. Her heart’s been cut out and there in its place is a little heart shaped Valentine that he, he had, he pulls out and reads. It happened once it Craig: happened twice. Cancel a dancer. It’ll happen thrice. Right, right. It’s so silly. I love it. And also the other thing. It’s that these kids, these 40 year old kids hang out at this bar with the creepiest bartender ever in the whole Todd: world named happy, who Craig: just recites like folklore poems at them in a really angry way. Todd: Well, the he’s the, the gas station attendant. He’s the character of the gas station at 10 minute and all these movies. Who’s warning those kids not to do it, but they do it anyway. This time of year, Craig: bad things coming. My word to here, you were the 14th value Todd: your life. He’s where we get the flashback from. And then again, later when the is canceled, they’re all back at the bar going well, we’ve still got to do something like we can’t just have the dance canceled. Maybe we can throw a party. Instead. TJ has ideas to do it at the mine. His father is the owner of the mine. Forget about having a party at all tomorrow Craig: night. You’ll be sorry, not path piss on Harry warden and that damn old legend. We’re going to have ourselves apart. Don’t you go down a note? Don’t say I didn’t warn you. Oh God. Comedy. Gold so funny. And so then he decides that he’s going to teach those little buggers a lesson, and he goes out to the mine and breaks in and like sets up something to scare them. Like he sets up like a minor dummy behind a door so that when you open the door, it pulls a rope which causes the minors. Pick ax. It’s like lunged at you. Like it doesn’t look dangerous, but it certainly would scare somebody. But then he tests it 26, five times Todd: cackling, happily with himself after each Craig: open. And then the last time you like starts to walk away cackling himself and he’s like, Oh, hold on. I better check it one more time. And then he goes back to check it. And the actual miner is there. And kills him another great kill shot where right. The pickax, the guy puts it up through the bar guy’s chin and it comes out of his eye socket with the eyeball impaled on the end of it. And it’s all practical and it’s grainy because it was originally cut. But. Oh, it looks so good. I just thought it was great. I loved all these kills. I loved all the effects. Todd: Absolutely. If you want to know how many ways you can get penetrated with a kick Axe, this movie has your answer for sure. Then they all, you know, all the kids and loads of extra, probably from the town suddenly pile into that, the rec room of the, of the mine. Yeah. And they’re all bringing their food and stuff. And for once we see an actual thrown together party, as opposed to say night of the demons where the holiday parties being thrown, supposedly makeshift in this little room and they’ve brought decorations, look them up and stuff. I was actually surprised that we didn’t. You know, Valentine’s hearts and things hanging Craig: everywhere, right? No, no. I’ve been to this party where you show up in some of bad, you know, like just some like conference room and you just sit and drink. Like I’ve been to that part. My favorite part, there are so many good parts. What my favorite parts of this movie is, there’s this one guy, he’s this cute guy. He doesn’t have any part other than this part, but he come like, he he’s like. Apparently he shaved and that impresses one of his friends and he was like, Oh, well I want to be fresh faced for the ladies or something. I don’t even remember what he says, but like they make a point out of the fact that he’s fresh faced and young. And then he’s like, hold on a second. I have the munchies. He goes into the back and there is an enormous pot of boiling. Hotdog the that’s the food that they have at the party and the enormous pot of Jaya, hot dogs that he’s just standing over. And then the minor grabs him by the back of the neck and puts his. Face in the VAT of the boiling hot dogs and drowns him in it. And I never, in my life thought that I would see death by hotdog water. And it just, I was, it was so funny to Todd: me. It was especially funny the followup, because later on in the party, we see two girls who are in there chatting, poured hot dogs out, and I’m thinking, okay, what’s the gag. What’s the gag. And eyeball is the head in there. And she pulls out a heart and it’s all cooked. Yeah. She’s like, Ooh, gross. They’re like, Aw, that must be something that a Howard Howard, the goofy guy. Would do. And the, the dude who says this is opening up the fridge to get a six pack of beer, but his back is to the fridge and he just absolutely reaches in to get it and unbeknownst to all of them, but we can all see clearly is the rest of his body. His whole corpse is sitting there in the fridge, perfectly lit. And then the door shuts. And I was like, Oh, that’s a cool gag. I thought Craig: it was so funny that the boiling hot dog. I, I, I couldn’t get over that. That’s so funny. My grandmother boiled hot dogs who boiled hot dogs, I don’t know, different time. But that guy that you were talking about that opened the refrigerator. The reason that he’s there is because he was getting beer because he had been making out with this chick Sylvia in a different part of the, the mind, like the, the showers. And, and like the locker room outside the showers and everything was going great or whatever, but she told him to go get some beers. So he did while he was gone, the minor terrorizes her, I didn’t really understand this setup, but it looked cool. Nonetheless, apparently their gear that they wear in the mines, like their suits that they wear are suspended on this. Big aerial system above the locker room and to release them, they just have to pull a rope and then they fall down or whatever. I don’t get it, but it looked cool. Cinematically. Todd: I was thinking at this moment, if I were putting a haunted house together, And I have done that. Yeah. This would be one of the rooms where these, you know, she’s kind of stumbling around and she’s kind of confused and she’s bumping into these clothes, which are going up and down kind of swinging around. And then the minor grabs her, picks her up, runs into the shower where he has already turned on all of the hot water. And I thought, Oh, is he just going to like sculpt her to death or something? I thought he’s going to hang her up on a hook, but he takes her in there. And impales her through the mat while the back of the head and out the mouth. On one of these pipes that is basically a shower head there aren’t proper shower heads. They’re just sort of pipes. That was a really disturbing scene. The way it was shot, it was kind of POV from him. So as soon as he picks her up, you’re just seeing her face looking straight at you and the camera screaming, very distressed. Oh God, her acting was great. You know, by the way, this actress, even though she was, had a very small role in this movie, her name is Helen UDI and she has a ton. Of acting credits. She has been in so many movies and so much television, including she was a regular of, she was, I guess, Myra being on Dr. Quinn medicine woman. Now she’s doing all of those budget horror movies. It’s like it for a year, but she was pretty and God, that was incredibly good. And then the aftermath, which, you know, we get to see an extended cut is, uh, Johnny comes back in with his beer and he finds her and she’s. Still there hanging and the water is coming out of her mouth. It’s really good. Really good. Craig: Another thing that I liked about the movie too, is that he does find her and eventually somebody finds the body in the refrigerator too. So all of the kids, the remaining kids who are still at the party freak out and leave. Like, I’m like, well, that’s, that’s an easy way to narrow it down. There had been a group of kids, I think about six of them, including Sarah, who had decided to go down into the mine just for shits and grants. Todd: I’m like, yeah. Right. Huh. Craig: Well, I mean, I kind of get it. Like they wanted to ride in the train car. I would take our ride in the train car. Todd: I’ve toured a mind. We sat in the train car and they took us back into near somewhere in Arizona. I think. That was fun. I was a kid. I remember that being cool, but we all had to wear hard hats and you know, all these miners are just fine. Just taking these women down there. Craig: No, they’re not supposed to TJ warns. That means like the, you know, the rule, no women in the mind, they take them down. Todd: No, that’s hilarious. The rule is no women in the mind. I think the rule should be no non miners in the mind. Craig: Right? Or maybe no drunk kids in the mind, like, Todd: yeah. And they’re led down there by Hollis. Who’s kind of this bigger guy has got a mustache and glasses on. He was my favorite. Oh, he was fun. This guy also, dude, has a ton of work behind him, including a movie we’ve done. Do you remember unknown, unknown origin about the crazy rat that runs around. Yes, he is the trap salesman. He’s the guy who comes in and sells them those traps. Craig: So funny. I liked him. He was the thing that I liked about him was this cast. It’s not a cast full of models. Many of them are very attractive. But some of them are just normal looking people. And Hollis is one of those people. Who’s very normal looking. However, he’s a cool guy. Everybody likes him. There’s one point when TJ and axle get in a fight and Hollis, single handedly breaks them up. Like he, he seems like the coolest of them. That’s true. That’d be the one that I wouldn’t, I would most want to be friends with, but anyway, they’re down there and they’re looking around and. I think we see that the minor is down there too, or at least there’s suggestion and one couple veers off from them. Like they’re going to make out and meet up with them later or whatever. And that’s the one kill scene that we don’t see. We do see the Todd: aftermath. She says, Hey Hollis, we’re going to meet you in 10 minutes over at the main shaft. And I was like, yeah, I think they’re heading straight for the main shaft. Right? Craig: Well, that’s 10 minutes. Like, I mean, I, I guess. No, your strengths and weaknesses. And who am I kidding? 10 minutes. That sounds about right. Anyway, Todd: it always seems longer than it is Craig: like this movie, but they, we don’t see them killed, but we see the aftermath of it later. They are both impaled within an enormous drill and they filmed the scene. And apparently it was very elaborate with the minor drilling this thing into them while they were getting it on. Uh, it’s unfortunate that it’s lost. I would have loved to have seen it, but even the aftermath, uh, is pretty gruesome. And then they’re all down there with the minor and they get picked off one by one pretty much. And TJ and axle get down there too. The only thing that frustrated me about this was that they keep. Finding each other and then intentionally splitting off from each other again. Todd: So stupid always makes no sense, but TJ and axle, this is what I said earlier. They decide that they’ve got to band together and go down there. Cause they’re like, Sarah’s down there. And it’s like, yeah, you know, a whole bunch of your other friends are down there too. So, you know, but anyway, Sarah is down there, so we got to get down there and they go into this elevator and I’m just marveling at how awesome the scenery is. In these, these shots. It’s great. And the music too is quite good. I dunno, the music was just was great. And, uh, we’ve done a couple movies, also, the musician Paul’s Zaza. Uh, he did prom night before this ghost keeper, which we just recently did and talked about the music there, curtains and popcorn. As well as some non horror movies like Porky’s and a Christmas story, you know, he worked closely with Bob Clark and in a lot of the, actually these Canadian productions around this, this time, the music of the cast and the crew, you go even through some of these actors profiles. And you’ll see that they’ve worked on a lot of the same projects, particularly around this time. And since then, so, um, it’s I guess, a smaller circle or especially was back then when Canada was really a place to, to shoot movies and to some degree still is. Yeah, I love the music in this movie. I thought it was perfect. Honestly, they Craig: put a lot of attention into it. I mean, they, they had a plan. They wanted every kill to have kind of its own musical motif and they wanted it. To have songs that they could put on a soundtrack that would potentially gain traction on the radio, but they ran out of money. So that never happened. They, they threw some stuff together. Like there’s a cool kind of folky song over the Todd: end credits. That was a nice surprise. I couldn’t, Craig: I, I kinda, I liked it in a place known that the Spanish German began every woman and man always time. But anyway, they’re all down there. They start getting picked off. Hollis gets a nail gun to the head twice. Yeah. And still stumbles around for awhile and stumbles until he finds the rest of his group. And they’re all horrified. Peggy Patty, Patty. Is that her name? Yeah, the annoying lady. Like she’s just paralyzed with fear, but it’s so obnoxious because she’s just holding them all back. She eventually ends up getting. Pick axed and the gut Howard dies off screen. I think this is when they are climbing up the ladder in the shaft. I think it was like a blink and you miss it kind of thing. And I did, what I know is that his body drops down right next to them in a noose. But then I guess the force of the drop causes Todd: his head to pop off. Yeah. Yeah. He doesn’t, it doesn’t make physical sense, but I think that was the idea. Yeah. And at Craig: this point it really just seems like the minor is kind of tormenting them. So we still got TJ and axle and Sarah, I think those are the only ones that are left. At one point axle tells them to go ahead. It sounds like he gets attacked behind them and they look back and they were on like this bridge over this water and they see bubbles coming up and there. And TJ is like, there’s nothing I can do for him. That’s 60 feet deep, like he’s gone. So he’s gone. They continue going forward. And then TJ tells Sarah to go ahead. And then we hear something happened to him, like a cave in or something, and then he’s gone. And so then Sarah’s by herself and she’s getting chased by the miner and then TJ miraculously reappears. And there’s. The minor is following them, like right behind them. They can see him. TJ starts the tr the mine train going back up. They all jump on it. And TJ in the minor are fighting on the train. So it was cool. I wish it had been a little cooler, like it’s so cool in theory, Todd: but Craig: fight choreography. Wasn’t that? Todd: Yeah. It’s not like a Indiana Jones on the runaway mind car ride going through there, which is kind of what they were going for a little bit, you know, it’s that classic climb across the train cars until you get to the end and you have to stand and fight, and then they fight a little bit, but they end up knocking each other off. Then they have to kind of finish their fight in the hallway where. Almost star Wars style when they’re having this shootout. And then they have to go into the garbage dump as TJ is fighting off the guy and Sarah’s behind him. He’s like points to a passage to like go in there. It’s the do not enter part of the, yeah. Oh God. And then they have they’re backed in there and that’s kind of where they have their final fights. And I thought that this fight scene was really cool because it was very claustrophobic. It’s in this cramped space, but also because it’s do not enter area, we know it’s dangerous. And as they’re swinging the pickax and stuff around they’re knocking supports down and knocking bricks and things away, it’s pretty intense. I thought for a lower budget movie, it was, it was effective. Craig: Anyway. Oh, yeah, it was fine. And Sarah helps out, you know, in the fight a little bit, but what ends up happening is there’s a cave-in and the miner gets pinned under the caveman. And so TJ and Sarah go out, the police have all arrived at this point, Todd: not before Sarah had managed to rip the mask off of the miner. Oh, right, right. And we see that it’s axle and we get. You’re like, Oh, it’s excellent. And of course immediately what goes through your head is why is it axle? Craig: Because TJ, TJ asks on screen why? And then we’re immediately answered with a Todd: flashback. It’s so stupid, but fine. You know, I guess we could have waited for the explanation later cause we do get it again, but. Basically Axel was a kid. Um, and it, his dad was one of the two supervisors, I guess, who were killed when, um, Harry warden had come back that year later and murdered them and he saw it happen quite gruesomely. I might add while he was curled up under the bed, blood splattered on his face and everything. So, uh, yeah, so he was mentally crazy. Yeah, Craig: it was crazy. He was just biding his time. Todd: This is the thing, like I thought the TG, right. I thought that Jay at one point might be the killer because of the way he was kind of disappearing and coming back. And he was a little weird, but then Axel, at one point I thought he might be the killer too. So when the both of them ended up together with the girls and they were each kind of disappearing for weird reasons, I had kind of input implicated one or the other, and then I thought it would be something, you know, cool. Like their motivation is, well, maybe at the, about the girl, maybe there’s something a little bit more to this love triangle. We don’t really know yet, but no, he’s just crazy. So, Craig: yeah, and, and I was really tipped off when Axel died off screen ceremoniously, unceremoniously, and we didn’t see like die off screen. That’s one thing, but we don’t even see the aftermath suspicious. Um, so I was curious, there was actually a part of me that was hoping that it was just going to be straight forward, that it was just going to be that Harry, whatever his name was like, he escaped from the mental institution and he’s back and he’s killing people and that’s all there is to it. But I don’t know, it was a cute twist. And the cops come in, they’re trying to dig us. And they, they find his arm and his fingers are moving like he’s alive. And Sarah runs back in and she’s like, I have to say right. Y um, But like, she reaches down, like she’s going to like caress his hand or whatever. And we see that under the rocks, he’s sawing his arm off. Todd: So our knife, Craig: you know, and he does, and then he jumps up and he’s like, ha ha. I got away. I’ll be back. With what are you like way down in the shaft? It was like all of a sudden he’s just loony too, but it was really funny and that’s just. It like that’s the ed, like he runs away down the shaft and that is the end. And then the credits roll with that fun folk song that is very much tied to the events of the movie. Oh, I liked it. I don’t know. You know, honestly, even as far as slasher movies go, I don’t think this one’s great. Like it’s all right. It’s fine. It has. Some interesting elements. I did like the kills and it was fun that it was like, so Valentine’s day theme, but nothing aside from the special effects that were mostly cut. From the original release. There wasn’t anything that I was like, Oh man, this is so good. Like it was fairly standard fare, but it was, it was fun anyway Todd: for a paint by numbers, kind of slasher, like, you know, so many of these at this time were Friday the 13th, the burning, we did intruder, you know, this one. All kinds of the same, right? They follow exactly that same formula that Roger Ebert filled out. But I thought this one had enough of these interesting elements. The mine, the town was a lot more authentic and real to me. That’s true. Then the locations are in most of these and then just the kitschy ness. The deliberate kitchenettes of making this as Valentine’s easy as possible. And he’s carving their hearts out and putting them in heart shaped boxes to give to people. I mean, that was kind of charming. And then, like you said, with the uncut version, God, you got to see the uncut version. You can’t watch the cut version. It loses half of its entertainment value. The kills are great. And like you said, the practical effects are a cut above, you know, many of them. Uh, at this time. And so put all that together and I can see why paramount at the time, thought this might be a bit of a hit for what it was amongst this. Sub genre of films that they were aiming for. So it’s for me, is going to stand out in this sub genre of films that we go through early eighties, late seventies of these slasher films that follow the same formula. At least the foremost is slightly different here and it’s different enough and entertaining enough in the movies competently done enough. And some cases, you know, just flat out beautiful and, and also disturbing that, uh, I, I mean, I agree with you. It’s not a great movie on, you know, compared to the rest of cinema, but right. In that narrow area, it really stands out and I’m so glad we watched it. And now I’m kind of curious to see the remake. Craig: Yeah, it’s just, okay. Todd: Well, thank you again for listening to another episode. If you enjoyed it, please share it with a friend. You can find us online to 2guys.red40 net.com. You can also search for our Facebook page. Shoot us a note there, or drop us a message on Twitter. If you liked this movie and you want to tell us about it, please let us know. And also if you have requests for films that you’d like to do in the future until next time, I’m Todd and I’m Craig with Two Guys and a Chainsaw. The post My Bloody Valentine appeared first on 2 Guys & A Chainsaw.
57 minutes | 3 months ago
In the last of our series of tribute episodes to famous people who have passed on, we salute Tanya Roberts, one of Charlie's Angels who made her seventh film with screen legend Chuck Connors, trying to reimagine himself as a Boris Karloff-style villain. The result is an incredibly odd yet creepy horror flick that managed to give us quite a bit to chat about. Thanks, Ryan, for the suggestion! Expand to read episode transcript Automatic Transcript Tourist Trap (1979) Episode 246, 2 Guys and a Chainsaw Todd: Hello and welcome to another episode of Two Guys and a Chainsaw. I’m Todd. Craig: And I’m Craig. Todd: So we’re about to wrap up our tribute episodes here of people that we lost in 2020. Today’s actress actually made it to 2021, but soon died in the hospital of complications related to, I believe, a urinary tract infection that just went from bad to worse and had her on a ventilator. And sadly, her long-time husband couldn’t even visit her in the hospital because of the COVID restrictions. So it’s so sad. Craig: Yeah. It is pretty sad. Todd: Yeah. Right. But anyway, let’s not talk about the sadness. Let’s talk about the life of one Tanya Roberts. Tanya Roberts was born Victoria Leigh Blum, but changed her name to Tanya Roberts to kick off her modeling and acting career. She started out as a model in the seventies. Craig: Big surprise because she’s ugly as sin. No, she’s stunningly gorgeous Todd: Oh my gosh. And especially in this movie as well, it just, I mean, she, her eyes sparkle and she’s. Yeah, she’s quite nice. Um, she didn’t always get the best reviews for her acting. I thought that in this movie, which is 1979 tourist trap also, by the way, recommended to us by Ryan. Thank you, Ryan, for that. And as soon as you saw that she had died, you had mentioned on our Facebook page that we ought to do a tribute to her. Uh, this is a, I think one of the only horror movies she’s done, she’s most known for coming in. I think at the last season of Charlie’s angels. Yeah, replacing one of the other actresses in a bid to kind of revitalize the series as it was declining, but that didn’t quite work. She was a bond girl. I believe she was a geologist in a view to a Craig: kill and with the, uh, with the whole Charlie’s angels thing in those later seasons. They were switching girls out, you know, people were leaving, coming and going and, and she was the last one. But to her credit, she was a big fan favorite. And the whole last season really revolved around her. She was. The center of most of the storylines, uh, in that season. And, and she was well-received. So there’s that, Todd: you know, she was in some movies like the Beastmaster. Um, I think one of her earliest films is, uh, was a remake of a, was an R rated remake of a pornographic movie called forced entry. Right. If you could imagine, but this one, a tourist trap was 1979 and it was produced by Charles band. We know Charles band pretty well. His line of productions is a mile long, and this is probably one of his earlier ones. I think maybe one is a fifth or six productions. You guys know him as a producer of a lot, like the puppet master series. Yeah, the dolls, a lot of movies, actually, that we’ve kind of enjoyed. And then a lot of movies that are just playing dumb and straight to video face the thing Craig: like, yeah, I mean, as a producer, he’s just so prolific. Like he’s put out so many movies and they’re pretty low budget and some of them are pretty schlocky, but it’s kind of hit and miss, like you and I have enjoyed. A lot of those moves we have for Todd: various reasons. Craig: Right. And, and of course, of course, when we talk about them, there’s always criticism, but there’s also a lot of entertainment value in a lot of his movies. So I don’t know, you know, Of course, I certainly don’t have my finger on the pulse of like, you know, Hollywood elites and how those people view these types of productions or whatever, but from a public perspective, from a fan perspective, I’ve really kind of come to respect. Charles band, uh, just yes, some of those movies are bad, but some of them are a lot of fun. And this one, I wouldn’t say it’s one of my favorites, but it’s very interesting. Yeah. Todd: It’s nothing. If not interesting. Yes, for sure. It’s really all over the map. I mean, I feel like this movie is cobbled together from a lot of other movies. Honestly, you got. A little bit of Texas chainsaw massacre in there. A little bit of house of wax, a little bit of psycho, and then some weird kind of the fury type character stuff almost in the area. Yeah. It’s just so all over the map that I think it was a little confusing for me at first to put a pin in what was going on and maybe that’s. To the movies credit in a way. I mean, it sounds kind of derivative. And so maybe it is kind of derivative, you know, but in deriving its material from all of these different places and putting together something very odd and strange strangely compelling to watch at times a little boring at other times, um, it is in its own way. A little original. Yeah. So. And, you know, that could be said, the screenplay was written by a David Smolar and a J Larry, Carol, and a was originally pitched to Charles band. And they really wanted John Carpenter to direct this. But John Carpenter was too expensive. So it came back and they said, look, Charles band himself said, look, David woosh Mueller, why don’t you direct this movie instead? So this was actually his very first directing a gig. But then after that, David Smolar went on to do puppet master. Um, he did a horror movie called the arrival, possessed a bunch of episodes of silk stocking, sun TV, and just a lot of random stuff, but mostly kind of in this lower budget television or, you know, direct to video horror kind of thing. So he said that he learned a lot. Directing this movie about just how to do that, how to direct actors and how to direct actresses. So for a first time director working with, uh, some stars, the male antagonist in this movie is very, very well known. Chuck Connors. Uh, who’s kind of a legend of the screen and television, honestly. Yeah. I always visually, depending on the role he’s in, yeah. The makeup and his age, he, he kind of pass us off for Charlton Heston a little bit, you know, he’s, he’s got some of that, uh, that look in his eye. He’s got a much more square jaw. He, he was a cowboy in a lot of movies. Craig: Yeah. W was he on Bonanza? I don’t know. I, I remember he he’s, he screams cowboy boots. He does. Um, and, and maybe that’s because the thing that I am most familiar with him from, um, is old yeller. Yeah. Yeah. Old yeller was a movie that they used to show us. Grade school all the time. Oh my God. And, uh, he, he was in that and he’s fine in this movie. Um, Stephen King is a big fan of this movie or at least was, uh, back in the day when he wrote his non-fiction book, dance macabre about horror. And he really liked this movie and he thought that the special effects were really compelling. And the story was interesting. He wasn’t terribly fond of Chuck Connors. Uh, performance, but he said it’s not because I don’t think that Chuck Connors is a good actor. I just think that he was maybe a little bit miscast in this movie and I don’t agree. I think he’s fine in this movie, but I know that their, the, their first pick for his role was Jack plants. And I totally understand why Jack Lance didn’t take. The bar, but had he had, had he taken the part? I think he might’ve brought a little bit of gravitas that, uh, Chuck Connors just doesn’t quite have, like, he’s almost there and I do enjoy him in this movie. I think he does a good job, especially since here we go. We’re three minutes in 10 minutes in whatever. Ultimately, he’s kind of playing a dual role and it’s kind of a surprise. I mean, I think it’s. Projected a little bit, I don’t know. He’s creepy. I like the duality of his role because on the one hand he plays this very helpful charming country kind of guy. And then on the other hand, he’s this total freaking weirdo. Yeah. Todd: Yeah. Which is good. I mean, you know, a lot of people when they’re casting these movies will purposely cast unknowns, right? Because they don’t want the baggage that comes with the actors prior work or whatever they’ve carved out for themselves. In this case, it kind of works to the advantage, right. Of having this well-known actor who is usually, um, kind of a hero type character, jovial friendly kind of macho guy, but, you know, he has that type and he always has, and, and at this time he was, had this notion anyway, that he could reinvent himself as a sort of Boris Karloff type of villain, you know, who could play villain than a bunch of movies. And then he did, he could play the villain. A few other films after this and maybe fulfilled his goal, at least varying his output a little bit more and being able to prove he can do that. Like you said, it’s. I don’t know. Um, and some of it’s descriptive, it gets into cheesy territory at times. But when you were talking about what is essentially a Norman Bates type character, right? Yeah. It’s, it’s gonna, you gotta play crazy, you know, and you can kind of forgive about anything because we don’t know what his particular psychosis is. And we, we get some ideas of where it’s come from as the movie progresses. And I think the movie does actually a pretty good job. Of feeding us drip by drip, a little bit more of his backstory as it goes along. I think Craig: that I would have found the movie more boring if it weren’t for the fact that the villain is so. Odd. So weird, so weird that it’s compelling. Okay. So this is a slasher movie, basically, and, and it’s, it’s very typical. Like you said, Texas chainsaw, massacre, house of wax, or at least the remake of house of magic. Of wax, where you’ve got a group of people, young people, I would, you know, 20 somethings or whatever, and they’re out for a good time. And one of them gets a flat tire there. They’re traveling in two cars. The lead car gets a flat tire and the guy. Whose car that is Woody. I just have like this buff, handsome guy. I wish they would. I wish they would have killed off Jerry first instead of Woody, because he was hot. I Todd: was just going to say, the minute that came on the screen, I was like, Oh, Craig’s going to like this movie. And then he gets killed off and I’m like, Oh, well maybe we’ll. Well, I mean, he’s like half shirtless muscular. His shirt is pink. He’s got Craig: white cat abs for days, Todd: just rolling a tire down the street. Right. Pick. And I guess, Craig: so he’s just rolling this tire down the road and he comes up. On this place, like, it looks like a service station, but it looks like it’s abandoned. So since nobody’s there, he goes in the back and it looks like somebody is sleeping like on a Cotter, a bed, but when he goes and tries to wake it up and yeah, he’s hearing like weird kind of creepy voices. And when he tries to wake the person up a mannequin, like pops up and laughs, and then I don’t know how you could explain. These events any other way than right away. It appears supernatural because the door slams and locks and nobody’s there. The windows are opening and closing by themselves, keeping him out a mannequin breaks through the window. Another one pops out of the. Closet, the mannequins are like laughing creepily, and then a cabinet starts rattling and lights are flashing and then debris starts flying out of the cabinet at Woody. And it looks really cool, like projectile flying out of this cabinet. And I read that the way that they did it was that they suspended the cabinet from the ceiling and just threw things straight down, just dropped them and change you change the camera perspective. Um, but it looks really cool, but eventually. A pipe shoots out and stabs him through the back. And then we just hear some weird man voice grumbling, like he’s saying things, but I couldn’t even make out what he was Todd: saying. So bizarre because you’re trying to put your, you’re trying to put your finger what’s happening, you know, and of course the movie’s called tourist trap. And so you’re thinking that. He’s kind of gotten locked in the little puzzle room, you know, I mean, there’s nobody around, but then these things are happening and coming out. So my first reaction was, Oh, okay. All these mannequins and things. They’re all mechanical devices and you know, the door auto locks and that and the window. And then once things start shooting out of the cabinets, I mean, you’re like, well, okay, this is clearly supernatural, the way this is going down. And I didn’t even understand how his. Arm got caught in the door. It’s like he poked a hole in it. It was trying to trying to open it from the other side, but something was holding his arm on the other side. It, it’s just really unclear except that all this crazy haunted house type shit is happening in the middle of the day. And, uh, once that pipe goes, you know, goes into his back, it’s like, He’s dead and the camera Craig: and we never see him again. Yeah. Todd: And the camera just does this extremely slow pan down from his shocked face down to the pipe and blood is already dripping out the end of it and across the floor and up and out the windows and you’re waiting for reveal, you know, you’re waiting for something. And then all we hear is that it’s that sound of the laughter or whatever, mumbling, and then boom, we’re back with the other car, which is driving down the street and meets up with the person that he left at the car, uh, who was Eileen. And we have a few other people in the car, uh, who are traveling together. So this is Jerry. And Molly and Molly is like this prim proper, you know, she’s the girl you’re thinking, okay, she’s going to be the final girl because she’s just almost comically. Right. She’s she has like a hat on knowing. Craig: So it looks like she stepped right out of the little house on the prayer. Like it’s ridiculous. She even, I mean, she literally kind of looks like Nellie Olsen from little house on the river. She’s obviously. So prim and whereas the other girls, you know, Eileen. Looks like a typical girl. She’s, she’s very spunky. I liked her and I liked that actress, but then you’ve got Becky, right? Isn’t that? That’s that’s Todd: the Becky is Tanya Roberts. Craig: Yeah. And she is like, she’s a sex pot, but at the same time, like not trashy, like she’s very, very curvy. And of course she’s wearing, you know, Skin tight, like halter top and tight little cutoff, Jean shorts or whatever. Very, very sexy, but also. She seems nice. Todd: Like Craig: she’s, she’s not trashy in her appearance and it doesn’t matter ultimately, but like, since we’re talking about her, you know, I just, I think that’s to her credit, she’s very sexy without being trashy looking. And she’s beautiful Todd: to look at. Oh, gosh. Yeah. I mean, I’m not ashamed to admit. I was, I was hoping we were going to see some nudity in this movie and shockingly, we didn’t, I guess there was supposed to be yeah. With the director too shy to bring it up until the scene where they all go skinny dipping, which isn’t about, you know, another minute later. And, uh, they were all like, uh, no, we’re not doing that. So they’re all just submerged enough in the, in the water to, uh, to cover up all the, uh, the naughty bits as it were, but you know, her dirty pillows, but, you know, Craig: uh, which is, which is fine. Like, of course it’s, you know, it’s it’s yeah. I, it doesn’t bother me at all. Nudity of course does not bother me at all. But the lack of nudity doesn’t bother me either. And you know, there’s still plenty of eye candy for the male gaze. These are beautiful women. Um, we don’t have to see them totally new to appreciate their beauty. Uh, but. Thank you Todd: for putting that disclaimer out there, Craig I am, we are two guys in a chain saw and I endorse this message. Craig: But the other thing that that leads to is that this movie is rated PG. Um, and we don’t do a lot of PG rated movies. On this podcast. This was also before Poulter Geist when the PG 13 rating came into existence. Um, but the filmmakers, I don’t remember if it was the producer or the director really felt that. That PG rating killed them. If they had somehow gotten an AR and they were surprised because they thought that the content was disturbing enough that it warranted an R. Um, but I guess because of the lack of sex and nudity and really because there is violence, but it’s not, Todd: no, it’s a little brutal, but it’s Craig: brutal. Todd: Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. I mean, I think that it did work out a little bit to their favor and that they got some play on syndication on television, out of this movie, apparently because of the rating. So, you know, maybe it made a little bit more money than it would have otherwise. I mean, there’s a lot of creepiness, you know, it’s funny. I just put together just today. Hey, everybody check out our email@example.com, 40 net.com where I just put up a page called family-friendly horror movies. Where I just went back and categorized these movies that, you know, what was it a last, last year? Right. We had the whole month where we did quote unquote kid friendly, gateway, horror, that kind of stuff. And as I was going back and categorizing our content and remembering it, these are, it’s still a horror movies right there by, by definition, they’re going to be scary and I have disturbing things. And the most of them have some level of degree of violence in them, or, you know, whether it happens on screen or off screen, some blood even right. Even a little bit of annuities, some language, but still, you know, depending on the age of your kids and depending on the maturity level, the people in your house and things like that, a lot of these. Movies that we’ve done a good 25 of them. I found, I would say, go and check it out first before you show it to your know your twelve-year-old. Sure. But based on your own values, but in a general sense, they’re not like the kind of stuff that we normally do here, where heads are getting lopped off and, you know, arms as ridiculous as it can be sometimes. It’s still brutal and graphic and gross. Right? Um, this is definitely one of those movies that you could watch with your family. It could come on TV and it would be just fine, although it’s still, still, Craig: it is. And, and I think that there’s like, Some nightmarish stuff in here. Like, not that I would ever have any reason or call too, but I could probably show this at school without having to send home a permission slip. I mean, it’s PG, there’s not, there’s no graphic violence really, but that doesn’t mean that there’s not some nightmarish stuff like the villain. Is is really very creepy. I wouldn’t want, I wouldn’t one him poking up in my dreams. Yeah. Okay. So it’s PG. All right. Anyway, so they’re all back together. And so they’re basically, now that the second car has caught up, they. Continue down the road and they’re looking for Woody and they find his tire abandoned and they see all these signs for like Sloss sins, lost Oasis. And one of the girls like, Oh, these tourist traps are all alike, blah, blah, blah. Great get the title. They find his tire and they drive by and as they drive by, I feel like the winds from their drive by like uncovers the sign that they don’t see that says like close to the public out, which is kind of weird. And I read who put up that sign. Is it somebody who knows the dangerous things that are going down here or. Another speculation is that it might be the villain himself, because like you said, it kind of appears to be this Norman Bates type of thing where he kind of has a dual personality where one of his personas. Is kindly and the other is murderous. So maybe he put it up himself, who knows, but they pull up to this place and the Jeep dies for no apparent reason. And I wouldn’t have thought much of that except for then, while they’re sitting there. For absolutely no reason. The headlight shatters Todd: too. They don’t even notice it. Right. I mean, they’re more concerned about the deep and I’m thinking, Oh, what are they going to notice the headlights shattering? How’s this working and how’s this significant. And did it get shot out? It didn’t, I mean, it’s so weird, right? It’s like, okay, clearly there’s some supernatural thing happening Craig: here. Exactly. And ultimately that’s what you figure out that there is something supernatural going on here and it’s bizarre and it doesn’t really come to light until later, but it’s obvious that something supernatural is happening. We do get a little bit of an explanation. It’s not laid out for us. Like, Oh, here’s the exact science of why all this is happening. We just find out later that this guy has telekinetic powers. Why we don’t know what’s the extent of what he can do. We don’t know, like really he can just do stuff and apparently he can disable their car to keep them there. Yeah. And Todd: so then they, you know, they kind of get out of the car and the girls wander over the Hill and that’s when they discover, Oh my gosh, there’s this beautiful, beautiful waterfall and a pond there. Eileen says, Oh, I think we should go swimming. And Molly comes up in her bonnet and it’s like, but we don’t have swimming suits. And they’re like, well, that shit that never doesn’t need to stop us. Oh God, but it’s even in the beginning, right? The main character Mr. Slossen comes in and in, in is pretty creepy because the girls are skinny dipping on his property. Molly is there. She’s the one who notices these legs come over the Hill first and she’s a little closer to the shore. And so he looks down at her and starts talking to her and. Ask her her name. So, I mean, you know, he is almost, he’s doing this as though he doesn’t have three beautiful naked girls in front of him and he’s just chatting with them. Used to be, I Craig: charge 75 cents a day. Just not, no more though used to be out at 25 30 visitors a day. And the government decided to Todd: mill Craig: that new Todd: highway. It’s the old story, right. Of though they put in that highway and I guess folks just want to go fast nowadays and they don’t have time to slow down Craig: facts. He says something like ever since they put in the highway, we’ve lost all our business or something, which is a line lifted directly from psycho. Yeah. But this, this part is funny to me because yet he does show up and I suppose you could consider it creepy that this man, you know, is like leering over these girls. But again, like you said, they’re under the water. They’re not fully exposed and he’s very friendly. He’s not mean he’s not admonishing them. He’s not yelling at them. He’s friendly. Uh, and it’s funny to me. Because as silly as this situation may sound, my maternal grand father was a country, man. He was a farmer. He was educated through the eighth grade and then he went off and fought in world war II and came back and was a farmer his whole life. And he owned a lot of property. And this happened to him more than once that he would have to go out and chase off. Skinny dipping kids. Off of his property and he was always nice about it too. You know, I’m glad you’re having fun naked kids, but Todd: okay. Fair enough. Craig: He skedaddled, Todd: what do you got a good thing, you know? When you, if you build it, they will come. Craig: Exactly. Apparently if you live in the country and you have a pond, beautiful women will come and swim naked at him. The Todd: things you learned too late in life, Craig: it’s. And it’s also, I mean, he’s kind of charming, you know, it’s cute. He’s like y’all bus leave for, it gets dark. Well, this here hole fills up with water moccasins. If you feel something wiggling around your feet, it’s just the early ones come to find a good Todd: spot, Craig: but they get out and they’re talking about. Him and, and they go back to the Jeep and he’s there waiting for them at the Jeep. And they’re all together. Now Jerry’s with them too. And he looks at the car and he says, Oh, there’s something wrong with it. We’ll need tools. So he takes them back. I thought he was going to be taking them back to his house. Cause that’s what he says. But it actually turns out to be like this roadside attraction, the Slawson museum. And he says he lives there. Todd: He does say Craig: he lives there. That’s which is weird because somebody also notices that there’s a big house. Just down the way. And he’s like, Oh, nobody lives there, but Navy. And they’re like Davey and he’s like, uh, David Crockett and he’s got this whole, like, it’s small. It’s not big, but it’s like, it looks like an old timey. I know they still exist, but you don’t see them very much, but those, you know, kind of Midwestern roadside attractions where you go in and tourist traps. Tourist traps. Exactly. But they’re kind of fun. You know, I’ve always been kind of intrigued by these. Places. Um, they’re very kitschy and like Todd: a wall drug or something like that, right? Yeah. Craig: I’ve never been to wall drug, but I hear it’s amazing. Oh man. And I got to go get me a raccoon skin cap from wall drug at some point in my life. Have Todd: you ever been to that house on the rock? Craig: I’ve S I’ve driven Todd: by it, but I haven’t been, Oh my God. That is the tourist trap to end all tourist traps. It’s the most amazing, incredible thing I’ve probably ever seen in my life. I could go on and on about how some of the rock. Oh yeah. Craig: But this place like it’s, it seems like mostly mannequins, but he also talks about wax Fe years and he talks about how his brother. Had been super, super talented at making these wax figures and they do stuff like they, he can flip switches and like, they’ll move. And like he’s got the Davy Crockett, one that like raises its rifle and fires and startles all of them. And he’s like, Oh yeah, that’s always a popular one with the kids or whatever. And it’s not particularly impressive. Really. Like it mostly just looks like mannequins, but yeah, there’s, I don’t know. It’s kitschy fun, kind of Todd: fun. I mean it, again, it’s this sort of thing that appeals to people in a different time and back when that was, you know, well, we didn’t have high-tech animatronics. This kind of thing was kind of cute. I love how he goes in and he’s got like a Dr. Pepper vending machine and he just opens it up. Like you’re going to change the stuff out and pulls the beers. It’s so funny. You know, actually he goes back into talking about his brother-in-law a little bit more talks about himself. You know, that how he was men went into the Navy and got kicked out of there. And then he got kicked out of jail and he got kicked out about anything else in his life. And he and his wife just settled down and did this thing. And his brother is really talented making these wax figures and all that. Um, and he’s still around. He’s just kind of what he says. Craig: He says as he’s off in the big city, Oh, he’s off in the big city making his living doing this. So supposedly he’s not around. Well, so then Slawson leaves the girls and goes with Jerry to fix. The Jeep and he warns the girls not to wander outside, but this is after they’ve already noticed that there’s that house out there. So as soon as they leave, Eileen’s like, you know what, screw that. I’m going to go up to the house and see if there’s a phone. And she goes over there and she hears. A man talking and she finds all these rooms filled with mannequins and dummies, and she starts hearing somebody whispering her name and she’s looking around and this creepy figure, it’s a big person. So I immediately thought it was a. Man, this creepy guy in this really creepy mask shows up. I don’t even know how really to describe the mask because it’s not, I don’t want to say Phantom of the opera because it’s not like that. But similar. I mean, it covers his whole face, but it’s like two pieces. There’s like a face plate and then like a chin plate so that he can still. Talk and his mouth moves, but it’s Todd: very creepy. It’s very evocative of those wooden ventriloquist dummies, right? Where like, like the jaw itself, but just below the mouth kind of opens up and goes back and forth. Whereas everything else, like the cheeks down to the, to the jaw line are stationary. Right. I thought it was kind of nice actually, that, that mask then, um, is evoked in the mannequins around the house because all these mannequins, they don’t look like. I mean, I think they’re supposed to, but not many of them look like finely detailed wax figures that look almost real. They mostly just look like, like department store mannequins, but then later on their jaw detaches, like the same way and their mouths open up in this very unnatural way, which is super creepy. I mean, I think that could give you Craig: nightmares. It could, but that’s one of the things that I really like about this movie is that for the most. Part, they just look like mannequins, but oftentimes you see a lot of them at the same time. Like you’re looking down a hallway or something and like they’re lining the hallway and most of them just look like mannequins, but I thought that it was really cool filmmaking that every once in a while they would clearly stick. So, so some of them of them are strikingly lifelike because they are real people. And that, that only increases like in frequency as you move throughout, but it’s jarring to kind of scan these mannequins and just kind of notice. Wait a second. That’s a Todd: person it’s funny that you call it cool filmmaking instead of cheap filmmaking. Yeah, but it is Craig: cheap, but it has an excellent impact. I thought, I thought it was really creepy. Todd: It’s true. Especially because you still really are not sure what’s going on because you’ve seen all this mechanical stuff, but then we seen this like supernatural stuff and you don’t really know what it’s all about. And. They play with that a little bit in this movie, I think. And whether it’s intentional or it’s just, you know, low budget that kind of happens to work for the movie. You’re right. It’s like seeing what may be humans in there, because this is always in the back of your mind, right? I mean, who hasn’t seen? Well, maybe many people haven’t seen like the original house of wax with Vincent Price, but it’s, you’re always wondering, okay, well, people are going to die. They’re all these mannequins. Maybe they’re actually people, you know, maybe they’re actually people covered up and then. As she walks into here, the eyes of these dummies are following her. They’re turning and looking at her. They look really good. Could they be people, but just the eyes are able to move, you know? Um, it’s, it’s really unsettling to see this happening. I mean, it’s derivative and it’s kind of. Classic haunted house type stuff, but it works, I think, in, in this setting. So this guy enters in you’re right. He’s got this mask and he’s running around breaking things. And then like, again, the supernatural it’s like he’s looking in different directions and it’s causing dummies to, to fall off the wall on her, or, you know, look at her. Uh, and the chair. Just shoot right up to her, which she flops down in and it spins around. And I think at this point I was like, okay, there must we’re we’re saying that he’s telekinetic. This was the moment where I realized, all right, then he must be telekinetic. And so at least. Some of what’s going on here. Isn’t supernatural at all. He’s just controlling it, but would he be controlling the individual eyes of all these dummies? Just for fun. That was still kind of going through my mind. Like maybe there’s still more to these dummies in that. And so it just added to this hodgepodge feel of the movie, you Craig: know, it kind of explains it later. So I feel like maybe I should hold off on talking about it, but, but I lean gets. Apparently strangled by her own scarf, no hands pulling it. Just, you see it being tightened around her neck, then the other girls Marvel at a mannequin and. The place where they are that little chop and they touch it. And they say that it feels like real flesh, which I thought would pan out to be something, but they never really addressed that. And then Slawson comes back and says that Jerry took the truck to town super suspicious, super suspicious. And he talks about that mannequin that they’re looking at. And he says that it was. His wife and that she had died of cancer and he loved her so much. And so he made this Todd: figure of her or whatever, a good cook, a good worker, a good everything. Just like a woman. Shouldn’t be it’s Craig: creepy. Like he’s got her, like it’s, it’s creepy. Uh, he’s got her on display. In, I don’t like, it looks like a doll box, almost like an open front and all around. Yeah. It’s kind of, I don’t know. You know, Todd: they’re like, Oh, she looked beautiful and he says she is beautiful. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. What does he mean? Right? Is that, is she in there somewhere or is she somewhere else? You know, it’s, it’s, it’s weird Craig: notices that Eileen has gone and they say she went outside. So he goes out looking for, and he goes to the house and this part is weird. Because he in the house, he’s like, Davey, are you there? Davey, Davey? Like, he’s looking for somebody as it turns out, we find out that there is no Davey. He is Davey. He’s both. But this suggests to me that there is some disassociation, maybe he really believes that they are two different people. It’s odd, but he finds Eileen and like she’s been turned into a mannequin. Weird Todd: creepy. That was weird. I wasn’t sure how to parse that. Craig: I mean, it makes no sense logically, but I think that it’s kind of explained in the end, he’s got these telekinetic powers. We, again, we just don’t know what the. Extent or limits of his powers are because he can do some weird shit, but I feel like that’s jumping the gun. Okay. The whole Todd: back. Craig: Well, but Becky and. Yeah. And, and they want to, they decide they want to go look for Eileen too, because Slawson Todd: hasn’t come back. They leave and they go down to the house and they hear Eileen’s laugh from inside. And they’re like, Oh, okay. Eileen is in there with Woody. So even though Molly is really, really reluctant to go in, uh, Becky just goes up and decides to climb the trellis on the outside because there’s a light on it. Stairs, I guess she decides that’s better than trying the front door and Molly who I thought in like three triple takes, uh, starts to walk to the woods. Turns around, looks back, walks through the woods, turns around and looks back, walks through the woods, turns around, looks back. Um, and finally decides now she’s not gonna, she’s not gonna go. And I think she actually goes back. Doesn’t she to the, yeah, she does the museum. While Becky goes inside now. I don’t know about you, but I felt like the movie was very dark, like visually dark. Sometimes it was kind of hard to see, and it was, it was very stylistically lit, but at times I just couldn’t even see exactly what was going on and I’m not even sure that was helpful, but yeah, he, she goes in there and just like the others, she hears somebody whispering her name and it’s just, she’s surrounded by a room full of ma mannequins. And she goes to that chair. Um, there’s this mannequin there with the scarf tied around its neck. She turns around the chair or looks, it looks at the other side and it looks like again, sort of like Eileen, but it’s got that mask thing on and it reaches up and scares her. Now was that him? Or was that? No. Craig: No, because he sh no, it wasn’t. He, because he shows up behind him and eventually he kind of jumps, well, she sees Eileen, but then she also sees. Him in a seat. And he, she spins him around and he does jump up at her. Um, but she, she runs away and the door slams on its own. And then she’s struggling with the door. But when she opens it, tons of mannequins, like fall on her and she’s all bruised up. And the creepy guy. Who the production people ended up calling plaster face as a play on Leatherface, which is pretty funny. She hits him with a mannequin arm and like, she hits him and he’s out for a second. But then this I, this is the weirdest part of the movie I was telling Alan about this last night. I’m like, then the mannequins all look at them. Her and open their mouths and sing. And they do this several times throughout the movie. And increasingly more as the movie goes on, like a mannequin will turn its head. Its jaw will fall open. Okay. Uh, And they’re like Harvard icing with each other and it is really super weird, like weird . Todd: It’s strange, you know, and this is where the movie diverge is a little bit for me, as far as like, it, it’s no longer creepy. It’s just weird after you see enough of these mannequins and their mouths opening and this thing, it’s, it’s almost like a little bit too much for me anyway. And that’s when I was like, okay, I’ve just more puzzled than anything at what is going on. And. Who’s moving these as he still moving them. Is there still something to them that I don’t know, but, um, they’re kind of piling on her and like literally piling on her, like just sort of falling on it, I guess, while he’s kind of knocked out, he must still be controlling them, but he Craig: supposedly out. But this is where, like the movie kind of hits it’s I don’t want to say hits its stride because it’s been fine, but this is where things just kind of go off the wall. Yeah, really. We see the creepy mask face guy carry Becky down into the basement where Jerry is tied up to a post. And there’s a girl that we don’t know, tied to a table. And at this point, mass guy starts talking right. Eddie jocks had this really weird voice. Todd: You know what, you know what it reminds me of, it reminded me of new year’s evil. You remember that one Craig: evil. So like he talks to this girl on the table who we don’t know. And he’s like your show pretty. Why don’t you like me? So weird. And the girl after he goes upstairs, the girl’s like, he’s crazy. We’re all going to die. He’s going to kill us. He, I was just getting gas and he grabbed me. I never even saw him coming. And like the creepy guy gets himself all made up in a top hat and a Cape and gloves and stuff. And he comes back with booze and he’s like, I’m going to have him piety. And he straps her head down. He starts plastering her face, but he narrates. It’s not a whole thing like yours, the plastic jar. Isn’t it. You’re won’t be able to breathe. And then finally, like he covers up her mouth and nose and she dies. And he says, now you’re one of us, but Jerry chewing Todd: through his ropes, literally like a cartoon Craig: character let’s get out Todd: and he attacks him. Let me just say like, This is very, um, kind of Phantom of the opera kind of abominable Dr. Phibes vibe and the music here. The music is like a score from another era. Craig: It’s so bizarre. Because it’s so bizarre. I really like it. Todd: I mean, of course this movies from another era, but I mean, another era from this movie, like this score felt like it fit in oftentimes more with like, 1950s, Vincent Price movies, this overlap Craig: babes in Toyland or, Todd: yeah, it’s weird. The gamut, like even in the earlier part of the movie, it’s, it’s kind of bouncy and groovy. It was scored actually by a man named Pino Dinaija, which they had to convince to do because he had scored Carrie a couple years before this and he did Parana. Uh, he went on to do like dressed, to kill the howling a ton. I mean, this guy’s huge in the S you know, as far as scoring scored Hercules body double a lot of horror movies, a lot of Italian films, some jello picks a couple that we’ve already seen all the way up through the eighties and nineties. Thousands. He’s still scoring movies now. And they producers of the film or the, I think the director of the film was ultimately kind of disappointed. They really wanted more of a synth type score, you know, like John Carpenter kind of Halloween type score, and they got this kind of minimalist or Kestrel kind of score that when you hear it, especially in moments like this, Oh, it’s totally Kerry. You know, it’s like the fury it’s like Carey. Well, of course he scored some Brian DePalma’s movies. It sounds so much like that. And it sometimes just feels a little out of place with, what’s supposed to be, you’re thinking a grittier, late seventies, early eighties, freaky, Texas chainsaw massacre kind of movie, but it never really reaches that level. And part of that I think has Gore. I Craig: liked C I liked the score just because it was so bizarre that it had almost like a jarring thing. In fact, like it caused unease. Like it made me uneasy just because it was so weird and strange. I don’t know. I meant to say something about it at the very beginning, because at the very beginning, it’s almost like clock work or machine work, like cliquey, clanky kind of stuff. Todd: Yeah. Bouncy and kind of groovy too. I mean, you know, it’s really weird. Yeah. But you’re right. So, so that was so corny though. You know, I’m going to put this on your face, but it’s not going to kill you, even though I’m covering your nose and mouth what’s going to happen is your heart is going to beat so fast. It’s going to explode and you’re going to die from fright. Like really? Maybe it just has telekinetic powers made that happen. Cause I don’t think that’s actually a medical. Medically reliable way to kill somebody. You know what I mean? But Craig: yeah. And I mean, he literally, he’s just putting pizza though. Yeah. Literally. That’s what it is. Yeah. Okay. But it’s just so strange. Like he’s so odd that it worked for me, like. I thought that it was very creepy. The next, I feel like 10, 15 minutes is a lot of him just chasing people Todd: around. It’s important to note though, that when, after his fight with Jerry, he like fricking lifts Jerry up the wall. Like he’s a superhuman. Craig: People can do that in movies. Todd: Yeah, they do that all the time, but then he, again, like Jerry’s bound up again and he’s sitting at the table and he goes on to a lot, a long diatribe again about his brother. And he’s just talking about, you know, Oh yeah. His brother thinks he’s more handsome than me. He makes me wear this mask on my face because I’m actually more handsome than him. And I hate my brother and I want to kill my brother. And it goes on like that. And I’m thinking, could the movie be that simple, that. Yeah, this is just his crazy brother, Davey. I, I that’s, that’s kinda what I was thinking was happening here. And I was like, okay, he’s got this telekinetic brother. Craig: It’s where that comes in because he drops a key and Jerry sees it and he tries to retrieve it. But the mask face guy sees and moves it with his mind. And then he explains, I have this power and my brother doesn’t like me to use it. And he goes on to say, But it feels good when I use it, he says, but it also scares me because sometimes I don’t even know what I’m doing. So like he does it it’s as though he doesn’t even have full control of it, which I think explains why some of the times where it appears, where he’s out, he continues to still have this. Influence. Like he doesn’t even under, he doesn’t even understand it. He can seemingly do just about anything, but again, lots of running around, running through the forest, he chases Molly through a forest. She jumps over a fence. He has a mannequin head. That talks. And he keeps saying like, meet my friend. Korozzin at her. It’s so weird. Yeah. Todd: It’s just a point at which she gets picked up by Slawson. Like Slawson just suddenly pops up. It was like, what are you doing here? Oh my gosh, we’ve got to get you to safety. And, and he, you know, picks her up in his truck and he drives her back and she says, Oh, I’ve been chased by this guy who was wearing a mask. And he goes, Oh my God, that’s my brother. Craig: He goes on a whole thing. Like, Oh, he always wanted to be like me. He always wanted everything I had in college. The opposite. Todd: It’s just a parallel dialogue we heard before. Yeah. And it’s too much really. I mean, it’s just too much explanation through dialogue with these things. Anyway, you know, uh, he takes her back to the, um, the museum. And even though she’s never shot a gun before in her life, Just hands or a rifle and says, now you stand out here while I go inside. And if he comes, you know, you shoot him and she’s like, well, I’ve never shot anything. He’s like, Oh, you just aim it and pull the trigger. Well, it is a shotgun actually. So I guess that’s maybe all you need to know. If you don’t care about kickback, I Craig: was just, yeah, like if it’s like a 22, that’d be fine. Todd: But then he shows up the mass Craig: guy, Todd: creepy guy immediately shows up and starts walking towards her and she shoots him twice. At point blank range and each time he just kind of stands up and comes towards her more. So she whacks him in the face with the rifle and the face mask shatters and it’s Slawson. So, uh, you’re like, Oh, okay. And for me, this was actually a bit of a reveal. I mean, Me too. I kind of thought maybe, but I was, you know, it was just one of many little possible explanations, but I was, I was genuinely a bit shocked to see that that was him. And even for a moment, I thought, well, maybe they’re just twins or something played by the same actor because they play a trick on you. You know, even in the credits, uh, they show a different name, uh, which is just a nonexistent name who plays Davey. But yeah, so, uh, she goes running. She kind of runs away. She kind of backs into the forest and just sort of absentmindedly backs into a pond and suddenly inexplicably behind her. Like he’s been waiting under the water this whole time. He slowly rises up with this spooky, evil, goofy movie villain grin on his face, wild eyes and grabs her and takes her. I thought Craig: it makes no sense, but it looks really cool. Like it looks very creepy. Yeah. When he comes up out of the water behind her and she’s totally oblivious, totally creepy. Anyway, they all end up back at the place. And like now he, we know he’s both people. And so now he’s totally weird and he’s like putting on different masks and playing with dolls and the mannequins it’s, he interacts with them. Like he has dinner with one of them and it. Talks to him. And he puts food in its mouth and then its head falls off. So like it’s bizarre. Like he can completely animate these things. And Jerry and Becky are running around and Becky ends up getting killed. One of those shooting mannequins. Shoots or, or no throws a knife in the back of her head that he has Molly and Molly wakes up like a fever dream. And she sees some woman like taking care of her. Ultimately it ends up being a mannequin, but it looks like a real person. And I’ve read that. That was the director’s wife. Uh, who played that role and she had lines and he cut them and she never forgave him. I thought that was hilarious, but it just turns out that it’s just this really surreal thing where he’s controlling all of these mannequins and they can move about and talk and do all kinds of weird things. And it ends up in a showdown where. Jerry, uh, he’s got Molly. Oh. And this part was super creepy. He’s like, you’re so pretty. And wasn’t my wife pretty, and you remind me of her and he puts a mask of the wife on her face and then tries to kiss her. And it’s so creepy and uncomfortable and she’s crying. Um, but then Jerry shows up and like comes in. It’s like, come on, I’m gonna take you out of here. And Slossen is just standing there. She’s like, come on, Jerry. And it’s like he can’t move and Slawson walks over him and to him and just takes his arm off. Like he’s a mannequin and then grabs his head, grabs the actor’s head and twists it. And in a cut, obviously it becomes a mannequin and he pulls his head off and throws it down. And then what happens in this part? It’s like we come to realize, apparently he can make these mannequins turn into people. Yeah. And he can make them do things. And I I’ve skipped things because we’re nearing the end of our time. And like, there’s a great part where Becky and Jerry pretend to be mannequins and kind of fool him. And this is where it gets really creepy, where you really can’t tell which ones are people in, which ones are mannequins and, and I’ll never let. This kind of cameo go Linnea. Quigley is a uncredited mannequin in this movie. Um, and she’s my girl. So I’ll, I’ll always, yeah, I got her out so bizarre and like he picks up one of the mannequins, a lady mannequin, and he starts dancing with it. And like in various cuts, it’s a mannequin. And then it’s a real woman and all of the mannequins are like laughing at, uh, Molly and eventually. She grabs an ax and, uh, axes Slawson in the neck, and then he dies and all of the activity. And, but, and then it just closes up on her face and she screams. And the last shot of the movie is her driving away in the Jeep with all of her friends, but their mannequins don’t love that, that last shot of the movie as grainy as it is. Might be my favorite because she’s got this big smile on her face. It’s almost like she’s just mad. Mm. I rushed through it. That last part, like Slawson talks about how he had killed his brother and his wife, because he had found them cheating and blah-blah-blah, but, and then he’s also like, but I didn’t really want to kill them. Like they try to make him like, he’s crazy, but kind of sympathetic. But not then, whatever, but you know, ultimately in the end I thought. It was a creepy movie. It was death. I found it very creepy, all of the mannequins doing their, uh, and like turning their heads and their jaws dropping and moving about. And then ultimately like turning into animated people. Um, it was very creepy though. The whole plot point of. This masked killer, also having these unexplainable telekinetic powers, like you said, it is a hodgepodge of so many things, Texas chainsaw, massacre, psycho carry all of these things. But in being that hodgepodge, it’s, it’s unique and it’s unlike anything else I’ve seen in some ways. Um, and though I don’t think it’s a great movie. I don’t think the production value is great. The acting is fine, nothing amazing. Um, but I think it’s just a, uh, an interesting Jim of, uh, a horror movie. And for, for real horror fans, I would say, Oh yeah, Y, Todd: you know, it is a hodgepodge, like you said, there’s nothing you’ve ever seen. Like it yet. There’s so many things you’ve already seen, like it, but it like, like we said earlier, it just, the, the, the whole is the sum of its parts is just, uh, utterly bizarre. And it feels like a movie that I would have seen on a Saturday afternoon after cartoons on TV. Um, it just has that feel I really late night. Yeah. I wouldn’t say it ever really scared me too much, but you know, it was creepy. And I suppose, yeah, if I was younger and I’d watch it or less experienced with horror movies, it would have provided some nightmare fuel. Yeah. Ultimately, I mean, yeah. I think again, if you’re a whore fan or a fan of Tanya Roberts or Chuck Connors or any of these people yeah. You know, watch it, but I wouldn’t say put it high on your list unless you’re just into this kind of thing. Things kind of weirdo, psycho killer kind of movies. That’s not going to be gross or gory it’s, it’s very PG and it’s also the seeds, right? A future Charles band productions. This movie became a cult hit, uh, at, for a while. And, uh, probably has influenced, you know, puppet, master dolls, demonic toys, you know, those. Themes that he keeps revisiting and continues to milk, you know? And so, uh, th this idea had legs and he’s explored these in different forms forms. I think even with the same director, right. Uh, he did a lot of the puppet master movies, and I think wrote, wrote one of them, if not the first one. So. Yeah, very, very interesting film and a nice tribute to Tanya Roberts. She’s she’s in a lot of this movie. She’s a perfectly fine actress. May she rest in peace? Yeah. Yeah. May she rest in peace? I was really disappointed to hear that those electric blue eyes of hers are. Basically just contacts and she wore those pretty much her whole career, Craig: whatever she looks good, Todd: no big deal. Right. Do what you gotta do. Thank you again for listening to another episode. If you enjoyed it, please share it with a friend. You can find us online to guys. I read 40 net.com. You can also just search for two guys and a chainsaw on Facebook. We have a Twitter account as well. Let us know what you thought of this film to give us some other suggestions of movies. And until next time I’m Todd and I’m Craig with Two Guys and a Chainsaw. The post Tourist Trap appeared first on 2 Guys & A Chainsaw.
59 minutes | 4 months ago
Ennio Morricone passed away last year, leaving behind music scored for more than 400 films and television – which made him the most prolific composer of all time. His score for Once Upon A Time In The West is one of the best-selling film scores of all time, at an estimated 10 million copies sold. Needless to say, we had a lot to choose from for our tribute episode to this legendary contributor to cinema history, and indeed we have already covered several films he has scored, such as The Thing, The Bird With The Crystal Plumage, and Exorcist 2: The Heretic. We chose the Jaws knock-off “Orca” because…well, it’s a movie we’d always wanted to check out. And boy, were we pleasantly surprised. The post Orca appeared first on 2 Guys & A Chainsaw.
60 minutes | 4 months ago
Thanks to Hailee for submitting a request for this week’s tribute to Joel Schumacher, who passed away last year. Stylistically, Flatliners in some ways is the quintessential 90’s movie, including this ensemble of young up-and-coming stars at their prime. Kiefer Sutherland, Julia Roberts, Kevin Bacon, with even a Baldwin brother thrown in there for good measure. The post Flatliners appeared first on 2 Guys & A Chainsaw.
66 minutes | 4 months ago
For the second of our tribute series this month, we’re killing two birds with one stone by honoring two people we lost last year. John Saxon was a longstanding veteran of screen and TV, with more than 200 credits to his name, perhaps most prominent in the horror community for his role as Nancy’s mother in the Nightmare on Elm Street series. Daria Nicolodi may not be a household name in the USA, but as a frequent collaborator and lover of Dario Argento, she had a role in some of his most notorious Italian horror and giallo pics, including a star turn in Deep Red and as the co-writer of Suspiria. The post Tenebrae appeared first on 2 Guys & A Chainsaw.
59 minutes | 4 months ago
Frankenstein and the Monster From Hell
This week we kick off a small series of tribute episodes that we didn’t manage to get to last year. Looking back at 2020, one of the more prominent film industry figures who passed on was David Prowse. He may not be a household name, and you may not even have recognized him if you passed him on the street. But he was certainly a big part of your life if you were ever a Star Wars fan, as his performance as Darth Vader captivated generations. The champion bodybuilder from Bristol didn’t do too much film work outside of that iconic franchise, but thankfully for us he put in a couple turns as Frankenstein’s monster for the Hammer House of Horror in the 70’s. Enjoy today’s homage to the superior of the two roles. The post Frankenstein and the Monster From Hell appeared first on 2 Guys & A Chainsaw.
59 minutes | 4 months ago
After years of doing this podcast, we’ve been really scraping the bottom of the barrel to find New Years-themed horror films. The old abandoned-lodge-in-the-Canadian-mountains theme is on full display in the odd 1982 film, Ghostkeeper. An unfortunate production history led to an interesting discussion that even WE can’t believe lasted about an hour. Help us ring in 2021 right by firing up this film – or any other film, really, would probably be better – to forget the year that was 2020. Cheers! The post Ghostkeeper appeared first on 2 Guys & A Chainsaw.
71 minutes | 5 months ago
Though some may not classify it as much of a “horror” story as our typical fare, Scrooged is in fact based on Charles Dickens’ classic Christmas ghost story, “A Christmas Carol”. So we feel fully justified in pulling out one of our favorite movies ever and reliving it with you this holiday season. Happy Holidays, loyal listeners! The post Scrooged appeared first on 2 Guys & A Chainsaw.
61 minutes | 5 months ago
Anna and the Apocalypse
Without a doubt, this is the best Christmas-zombie-horror-comedy-musical we have ever reviewed. If you’re looking for a legit, lighthearted yet heartfelt romp, filled with catchy songs and great dance numbers, check out Wicked. Or you could watch this movie too. Wicked doesn’t have nearly as many zombies. The post Anna and the Apocalypse appeared first on 2 Guys & A Chainsaw.
50 minutes | 5 months ago
Well, we’re back with one of the goofiest, groaniest, holiday horror comedies we have ever done. What do you expect with a professional wrestler carrying the show? Don’t expect much, but anyway, it’s fun for a certain crowd. The post Santa’s Slay appeared first on 2 Guys & A Chainsaw.
60 minutes | 5 months ago
Silent Night Deadly Night
We certainly put this off as long as we could, and now we’re kind of wondering why. Both of us learned that our memories of this notorious Santa slasher did not do it justice. We even forgot that Linnea Quigley had a role. Come listen to our take on one of horror’s most infamous films. The post Silent Night Deadly Night appeared first on 2 Guys & A Chainsaw.
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