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Episode Info:

7 Reasons To Quit Caffeine After Stroke.

7 Reasons to Quit Caffeine After Stroke is Part 2 in a series of 5 that I have recorded with Stacey and Matty Turner from the Chief Life

Stacey is a qualified Nutritionist and Matty is a Personal Trainer. Together we discuss how removing Caffeine can enhance performance not only in the gym but in everyday life for all people whether they are recovering from stroke or not.

To find out more about RecoveryAfterStroke coaching go here

Find out more about the chief life team below.

Scorecard: Podcast: Blog: Instagram: @thechieflife @bubbly_stace @mattyafter
Youtube: Highlights: 3:09 Fast vs Slow Caffeine Metabolisers
12:37 Caffeine is an Appetite Inhibitor
18:35 Caffeine and Cortisol
25:15 Caffeine and Sleep Disruption
31:44 Altered Brain Signals 34:42 How Caffeine Increases Acidity In The Body
40:51 Caffeine Dehydrates the Body Transcript:

Bill 0:00
I think what’s good about this episode for me is that I’m going to it has reminded me of why we’re only up to, you know, point 2 remind me, why do I need to stop? So I’ll do that because I went cold turkey for four years, I can do it again. So no problem. Let’s move on a little bit because this,

Matt 0:16
can I touch on something that the bill is usually the habitual factor for people like that’s usually what they want is a warm cup of something to drink

Stacey 0:24
that ritual,

Matt 0:24
that ritual is their process. So it’s like, how do I start that day without having a caffeinated beverage to kickstart me

Stacey 0:31
and they feel deprived when you take that thing away from them

Matt 0:34
and so it’s about swapping it out. So finding yourself a herbal tea that works without caffeine in it, or grabbing yourself into caffeinated coffee to use and the best quality coffee can get this the caffeinated is a Swiss water process.

Intro 0:50
This is recovery after stroke with Bill Gasiamis. Helping you go from where you are to where you’d rather be.

Bill 1:22
Bill from recovery after stroke com. Welcome to part two of the fun five series. Today we’re going to discuss caffeine.

Stacy Turner, welcome. Thank you, Mary Turner. Welcome. Thank you, Bill.

Now, you guys are there together? There’s two of you. But there’s more than just two of you there these days. Tell me who else is there that we can’t say

Stacey 1:46
oh, you have a little Bubba five months old growing oven in the bun.

Matt 1:50
Yup not earth side yet,

Stacey 1:52
Yeah, already mix my words up. That’s that’s baby brain in full swing

Matt 1:57
can’t even remember the name of it.

Bill 2:00
Now I don’t think there’s such a thing as baby brain, let’s not generalize about that sort of stuff. Hey, guys, thanks for being here. For the second part of this five part series. Today we’re going to talk about caffeine. And it’s a really interesting topic. Because when I was looking at the other stuff we’ve spoken about already sugar. If you haven’t heard that episode yet, guys, check the show notes and go and have a listen to that episode. Caffeine seems to do the same types of things to the body that sugar can do. But it does it in a different way. So today, we’re going to talk about the seven things or the seven reasons why people should stop drinking caffeine, or maybe cut down

Matt 2:47
I guess detox or potentially

Stacey 2:49
cut down swap it out

Matt 2:51
like, yeah, there’s a

Stacey 2:53
for a period of time maybe not, not forever, depending on the person. But I guess we can also use ourselves as example, because we were complete opposites Matty and I in terms of our our caffeine experiences.

Matt 3:05
Yeah, definitely.

Bill 3:07
So what’s your experience with caffeine Matty?

Slow VS Fast Metabolizers of Caffeine

Matt 3:09
Well, I think what, like what’s nice is getting out there is that there’s such thing as a fast and slow metabolize when it comes to caffeine. So fast metabolizers, is someone who when they have caffeine, it will, their body deals with it quite well. So you’ll get maybe a little spike of energy, and then it goes through your system pretty quickly. And you’re done with it. That’s it like your body knows how to how to deal with caffeine. Whereas a slow metabolizer is someone who has caffeine and it starts to do things on a cellular level that are not necessarily favorable. So things such as like, you might find that you’re getting anxious, you might find that you’re sleeping becomes not as not as beneficial as what it was previously. So you’re not waking up as rested as what you were before, you might find that you’re a little bit more high strung and I guess that comes back to the anxiety and make you feel anxious, but it can

Stacey 3:56
some people even have like low tolerance levels so they can get easily irritated. Even a little bit aggro. like aggressive Yeah,

Matt 4:02
yeah, it also comes down to like we talked about in the sugar podcast, so skin, and different issues that it can create within the body. So going back to those four immune systems we talked about, which goes down to your gut, your brain, your heart, and your sorry, your skin and your blood, I’ll get there i will re confirm that is your gut, your brain, your skin and your blood. So it can attack you on any of those four levels. So depending on if you’re a faster or slower metabolizer, will will kind of dictate as to how you respond to caffeine in general. So to put it an overview on it, I’m a fast metaboliser, whereas days is a slow metabolizer. So we’ve kind of seen those things happen between the two of us where I got rid of caffeine. And to be honest, I actually felt I felt better my energy levels have better across the day when I don’t have caffeine in my system. Whereas Stacy is this

Stacey 4:52
was a I was a high functioning anxiety kind of person if you’re going to define it. And and once I got rid of caffeine, I felt so much more clear in my mind, I was able to not get so stressed out about things and just just deal with whatever life throws at you. So I guess for for the listeners who might be recovering from stroke, if they’re going through, you know, a lot of full on stuff as they’re recovering, adding caffeine to that mix, when they’re trying to recover, they try to nurture themselves, it doesn’t really assist in that process. For many people,

Matt 5:27
I just want to put a quick, quick small print here and it comes down to people thinking that they’re a fast metabolizer, once they’ve had caffeine for a long time. Like, it doesn’t matter because I have it every day and I just need bought four or five cups to get through the day. The issue is, is that each time you have a cup of coffee or a caffeinated beverage, essentially your body needs a cup and a quarter to get that same hit the next time. So you start to build up like a resilience or tolerance to caffeine. So you have to actually detox your body from it to be able to tell if you are faster or slower metabolizes, so you need to take 30 days out from it before you re introduce it to see how it actually responds in your body. And then once you do or reintroduce it you can ascertain do I feel saying better or worse? If I feel the same with with or without then I guess it’s up to you whether you choose to keep it if you feel better without it probably makes sense to keep it out if you feel worse. And I feel like there’s something else going on there that needs to be explored.

Bill 6:25
Cool. My wife will have a coffee 35 seconds before she goes to bed.

Stacey 6:32

Bill 6:33
And she sleeps like a trooper. No problem at all. And I always have

Matt 6:37
Is it instant like a shot of coffee.

Bill 6:40
It could be on the way home from a night out. It could be an instant it could be you name it, it could be anything. And she talks about it not really impacting her sleep and my un educated guesses that it does. But she is not aware how. But it doesn’t stop her from shutting her eyes and doing sleeping type tasks, which is lay there with your eyes closed and breath.

Matt 7:07

Bill 7:07
So it’s interesting that you guys talk about being a fast and slow metaboliser. What I understand about that, and when I found this out and shared it with my wife, what it did is it made her feel like it’s okay to drink coffee more often, was that I found out that the liver the fast and slow metabolizers it’s the liver that processes the coffee either faster or slower, and some people on one of them definitely can’t get it out of the liver quick enough, or the liver can’t get it out quick enough. And therefore it interrupts with a sleep pattern and interferes with part of somewhere in the brain, Stacey and inhibits the sleep cycle

Stacey 7:55

Bill 7:55
Yeah, hormone right, and doesn’t allow for melatonin production to ramp up. So I know that for a fact. And it’s always been like that for me. So I did stop drinking caffeine for a good four years after the brain injury. Because I found that it was really affecting me negatively. And it was making my mood swing. It was making everything just seemed out of whack. My heart was racing more. And for people listening to have had a stroke. It’s coinciding with all the other weaknesses that your body has to deal with because the brain is so overworking now to keep you going to at normal rate, the caffeine just interferes and it’s kept counterintuitive. People think caffeine gives me energy, but it doesn’t. So I agree with what you guys saying. Totally. So and now, with regards to caffeine and the baby in your belly, what what are your thoughts about that?

Stacey 9:01
I’m quite opinionated on this. So I guess there’s a lot research out there. And this is I’ll give a science and then I’ll also give my opinion as well. My own personal opinion is that people should not drink caffeinated beverages whilst they’re pregnant. And probably more so coffee tea has like lower amounts, and it’s not as acidic as caf as caffeine from coffee. But there is some data to show you that it does affect baby’s health negatively and growth.

And so it for me if there’s any risk, like what I look at the kind of what are the pros? And what are the cons in each of these situations? And a lot of the things that have you told not to do during pregnancy? They don’t know for sure, because they can’t do ethical tests on pregnant women, like no one’s going to put their hand up say, yeah, test me and my babies on this thing, you know, no one would really want to do that. So a lot of the recommendations are overcautious, like we use essential oils. And a lot of the recommendations are like be careful of essential oils, whereas that’s like a really natural, healthy kind of option over a lot of chemicals that are out there.

Whereas with caffeine, I guess a lot of people do still drink coffee. And so they’re able to do a little bit more testing. And they do find that lower birth weight of baby’s brain developments effected. I mean, if it causes anxiety and me with my genetics, then what’s that setting the baby up for before it’s even earth side?

Intro 10:26
If you’ve had a stroke, and during recovery, you’ll know what a scary and confusing time it can be, you’re likely to have a lot of questions going through your mind. Like, how long will it take to recover? Will I actually recover? What things should I avoid? In case I’m make matters worse, doctors will explain things. But obviously, because you’ve never had a stroke before, you probably don’t know what questions to ask. If this is you, you may be missing out on doing things that could help speed up your recovery. If you finding yourself in that situation, stop worrying, and head to, where you can download a guide that will help you. It’s called seven questions to ask your doctor about your stroke. These seven questions are the ones Bill wished he’d asked when he was recovering from a stroke. They’ll not only help you better understand your condition, they’ll help you take a more active role in your recovery. head to the website now, and download the guide it’s free.

Matt 11:38
So to stay extra stressed and whatever else that your body’s producing as well.

Stacey 11:42
Absolutely. So I mean, each each their own. And I know people will have their own personal preference on this. And I don’t judge the people that choose to continue to drink coffee through pregnancy, but just for myself, and I’m wanting to give my, our baby the best chance of success in its life. Yeah, then I think it’s important for me to opt not to and also so it’s like what’s the point? You know, that’s that’s kind of the question I always ask, why would I need this right now, if I’m sleeping? Well, if I’m eating well, you know, if I’m, if I’m nourishing my body, there’s no need for the extra energy. Because if I’m tired, it probably means I just need more sleep. And I need to honor that. In order to help my baby grow rather having an artificial stimulant, whether you’re pregnant or not, you know, if you’re recovering from some kind of brain injury, as you said before, it’s like extra stress on the body. And then if you’re adding another external stimulants on top of that, that the body then has to break down and process. It’s making life even harder for the body.

Caffeine decreases your appetite.

Bill 12:37
Yeah, totally agree. So tell me about how it’s an appetite inhibitor how is caffeine, an appetite inhibitor? And if it is, isn’t that a good thing?

Stacey 12:47
Yeah, most people would think so. Calories in equals calories out, right? No, massive fallacy. So it’s not a case of I want to lose weight, I’m just going to stop eating, why don’t I have some more coffee because that’ll stop me feeling hungry. In theory, that might sound great. But what we really want to do is make sure that people are eating food so that again, they’re nourishing their body that getting the macronutrients the protein, carbs, and fats in there getting the micronutrients, the vitamins and minerals to help their bodies function optimally, and also repair whatever is going on, and needs to be repaired.

So if people are drinking something that is stopping them from wanting to eat, and not even realizing that it’s an appetite inhibitor, they might go like have their morning coffee, and then go through the entire day not eating a single thing, maybe even until dinnertime. And Matty mentioned before, like three to four coffees a day to get you through the day, that’s pretty common for many of the people that we start working with. And they will have one minute meal a day at nighttime. And they wonder why they’re not getting results. Because what happens is they end up going to like starvation mode and their body doesn’t end up helping them to lose weight or even repair because of what he’s too busy trying to survive without any energy or nutrients in it and just trying to survive off the caffeine.

Bill 14:04
So Matty you’d say that in guys you train right, people, not guys, just people you train. They come in the probably most of them sucked into the hype about energy drinks and you know, smash a couple of those out in the morning and then go to the gym and then smash a couple more out. But how do you see that impacting negatively? People who are at the gym and thinking that they’re doing good good by them by the you know, by their body?

Matt 14:29
yeah, the the typical pre workout is a big thing, people will have a pre workout, which is equivalent to like four to six cups of coffee and one hit, which is absolutely insane with the amount of caffeine you getting. But essentially, what happens is it overheats the body. So you can’t actually respond properly as a full functioning human. You can’t put your best out when your body is overheated. So yes, caffeine is good. It can be good pre training, but it’s not the best methodology. What we do find is if you’re over caffeinated, or you’re over stimulated, that you are not going to be able to function to the state you need to be able to function to so realistically as as a performance enhancing drug I guess you could call it it does, it does respond well in smaller amounts, however, in large amounts is not at all favorable as a item.

So this would go back to once again, if you’re a faster or slower metabolize like no one should be having four to six cups worth of coffee before they go and train. But if you’re a fast metabolism, maybe having espresso shot before you go might be all right. However, if you’re a slow metabolism, I would just be reducing it completely. However, like I’ve said previously, we find that a lot of people actually have better energy throughout the day when they remove caffeinated beverages and items in general.

Bill 15:51
Alright alright you starting to convince me because I picked it up again, a little while ago, because I just love the taste of coffee, right? people drink it for the taste. So I know that I only have I only have one and it’s in the morning. So it doesn’t affect my sleep. But I have it out of habit more than anything because I wake up generally quite well when the sun comes up. I tend to just be in tune with that cycle and it helps me wake up. So I think what’s good about this episode for me is that I’m going to it has reminded me of why we’re only up to you know, point two remind me, why do I need to stop? So I’ll do that because I went cold turkey for four years, I can do it again. So no problem. Let’s move on a little bit because this one.

Matt 16:37
Can I touch on something that for you Bill is usually the habitual factor for people like that usually what they want is a warm cup of something to drink

Stacey 16:44
that ritual,

Matt 16:45
that ritual is their process. So it’s like how do I start that day without having a caffeinated beverage to kickstart me

Stacey 16:52
They feel deprived when you take that thing away from

Matt 16:55
away. And so it’s about swapping it out. So finding yourself a herbal tea that works without caffeine and or grabbing yourself a decaffeinated coffee to use and the best quality coffee can get that is decaffeinated is a Swiss water process. And so what this means is that they put it in water and electrocute the bean to get the caffeine out of it. Compared to a regular decaf, they’ll put it in chemicals. And then they just pull the chemicals out of it, keep the beans covered in chemicals. So the issue there is that once the beans have been ground up. You’re still getting the chemicals in your body. So Swiss water decaf is really important if you’re going to switch to a decaf coffee instead.

Bill 17:31
Thanks for saying that. That’s a really important point. I’ve read on that. And I did, at some point, start drinking decaffeinated coffee because of the flavor. But then I just let it go because I figured what’s the point but, I get what you’re saying. So what we don’t want to do is take coffee out and then introduce another chemical. That’s not caffeine that we think we’re doing ourselves better. So guys, whoever’s listening or watching if you are curious, just Google it. Just Google Swiss, decaffeinated coffee, water decaffeinated coffee, and you’ll find heaps of information on that

Matt 18:05

Stacey 18:05
Yeah, and I think a lot of people complain about the taste because as you saying, You drink coffee, because you enjoy the flavor of it. And I’m the same I you know, I did go through stints of loving coffee, especially working as a personal trainer in the industry and waking up early. And then there are decent Swiss water decaf out there, like a few brands that that we’ve come across that have changed all across Australia or wherever people are, might be a little bit harder, but as the base people is is Campos coffee, Belissimo, and and even at the local supermarket.

Caffeine will spike cortisol

Bill 18:35
Yeah. Awesome. Great. So let’s move on to point three. So this one ties in again with sugar. And we’re talking about cortisol, right? So I know that when we spoke about sugar, we talked about how it spikes cortisol. And very often, we have sugar in coffee. And combined. They’re both spiking cortisol, the tell us specifically how cortisol and coffee are connected.

Stacey 19:00
Yeah, absolutely. So as we mentioned, in the sugar podcast, cortisol is labeled as the stress hormone. Now important to remember that our hormones aren’t bad unless they’re in chronic high levels. So as a little bit of cortisol as a little bit of stress hormone you know if an incident happens. So we need to get out of dangerous way. These days, it’s not really the same as what it would have been when we were trying to run away from a lion or a bear or something like that. But in that circumstance, we need the cortisol, we need the adrenaline, to get us out of that that negative situation.

Nowadays, we’re seeing cortisol being released from the adrenal glands, which sit above your kidneys, within the body, in larger amounts for longer periods of time, and it can really start to negatively impact the body. So when we have caffeine, because it is a stimulant, because it is an uplifter, an artificial uplifter into the body, it can put us into to our fight or flight mode out our sympathetic nervous system, which, which is good if it is in small amounts. But because we’re already majority of people are a little bit stressed, or that they’ve got a lot going on life is you know, full of things pulling us in a million different directions, then we layer on top of that coffee. That’s then adding more stress into the body because it’s releasing more cortisol in order to try and I guess, respond to the stresses that are happening.

Bill 20:33
If you’re having a stressful day at work. It’s making the day even more stressful. You just haven’t realized it yet.

Stacey 20:39
Yeah, absolutely. And then layer on that, that maybe your sleep is already quite affected, that can affect your cortisol levels as well. So it’s just kind of this escalating, exacerbated issue just carries on

Bill 20:50
Hey Matty as you go in and out of focus there. It’s quite funny.

Matt 20:56
I’m just listening.

Unknown Speaker 21:00

Bill 21:01
you’re going in and out. But anyhow,

Stacey 21:03
I will try and level up with him

Bill 21:04
to keep you here. And in our screens. Tell me so how does somebody who’s chronically stressed out has high amounts of cortisol and they come into the gym? Is that a good way to release cortisol? Is that a myth? Does the gym helping sort of balancing or regulating the body in those states? Or are we just making it worse by coming to the gym, and including all these other stressors at the same time?

Matt 21:30
Yeah, it is going to be person by person dependent and as how they respond to stress. And I think there’s such thing as good stress and bad stress, something like exercise is going to be a good stress on the body. However, if you’re like adrenally fatigued, and you’re, you’re so messed up that, like, so messed up, meaning that your hormones are so out of whack, what we’ll find is that even training is going to be too much in the body. So it really does come down to person, person to person. But what I would say is, unless you’re adrenally fatigued exercise, always going to be a favorable stress, and removing any other forms of stress is going to help you gain more energy. Whereas like, for instance, work, stress can really bring you down and can really drain you something like training is a good stress that’s going to lift you back up, it’s going to give you energy,

Stacey 22:18
can I add on that as well. So as Matty says it makes you feel good, because it’s releasing endorphins, so you get the happy hormones being released from the brain. But it also depends on what exercise you do. Because if you are quite stressed, even if you’re not adrenal fatigued, and you go and smash yourself in a CrossFit workout, it is going to probably leave you feeling like a little bit messed up afterwards. Whereas if you go to the gym, and you’re acknowledging I didn’t sleep well, last night, it’s been a stressful week, I did have a couple of cups of coffee today, maybe I should just back off the intensity, like, Okay, if you train at a across fit gym, you still have the choice to let your ego stay at the door and back off a little and just be there to move and just acknowledge that the focus or the goal of the session might be a little bit different. So that we are getting the positive benefits out of that session. As opposed to just draining

Matt 23:11
something like a white walkers still counted as exercise or something like just doing some weights and still count as exercise, you don’t have to be sweating and thrashing the body.

Bill 23:20
Oh, that’s good to know. Because I don’t do that is that is exercises a bit of a drama for me and a lot, a lot of stroke. Survivors will, will struggle because of one of their sides, left side right side. They’ll have you know, issues with tightness, muscle tightness, spasms, have all sorts of issues. And I certainly have that I have numbness. So going to the gym is now has now become kind of what’s the word stuff I used to love to do, like ride the bike and lift weights has become not so much fun anymore. Because when you’re under a barbell, you know, you’re afraid that your weaker arm is going giveaway, and there’s going to be issues there if you’re not being properly monitored.

And the tiredness occurs in the body in the muscles before it occurs anywhere else. Yeah, and it takes away the fun of pushing through and going to that next set or rep, you know, which really gives you that lift. So exercise becomes no more fun for me like it’s it has become more fun. But I know the importance of it, I still do light walking. So it’s I’m glad to hear that, that walking is a good thing. And I can walk for ages and for days and hours if I had to. So that really helps, you know,

Stacey 24:38
yeah, and even stretching and things like yoga, you know, people, if they’ve come from a background where they have been doing heaps of gym stuff, and they consider that as like actual exercise. But there’s so many benefits from yoga, like Mind Body connection, especially for stroke recovery, allowing that focus on the breath. And as we spoke about last time, a little bit of meditation. Just so many healing, it’s a basic healing, nourishing things that you can get out of that kind of exercise, even if it’s just gentle restorative yoga, you’re still activating muscles and and allowing your body to tune in.

Caffeine will disrupt your sleep.

Bill 25:15
Yeah, absolutely. I’ve noticed that with yoga, I feel really, I dont now know really calm when I leave from you’re really in a really good space. So I do quite enjoy it. So let’s talk about energy and sleep disruption. Now, again, counter intuitively, caffeine gives us energy, Sleep disruption, we’ll go into more detail in that in a second. But let’s talk about energy. Why should we remove caffeine? And how is that going to help us increase our energy levels?

Matt 25:46
Well, they both actually kind of play into the same same realm. So energy and also your sleep and why it gets disrupted because what happens is when we eat carbohydrates your body produces a hormone called adenisine, or adenosine depending on where you’re where you’re from. So adenosine, what happens is in the brain, it goes up into your brain. And for those that are looking, you’ve got like, we’re not watching on the YouTube channel, you’ve got like a cup. And these adenosine hormones go and sit perfectly in this cup, and it’s called a receptor site.

Now the issue comes when you drink caffeine is that adenosine and caffeine look exactly the same, but they’ve got one molecule difference. So when you have caffeine, it pops up goes into your brain and sits perfectly into this little receptor site. What happens then is that the adenosine has nowhere to go. So it starts to pile up behind your caffeine and once your caffeine has finally been used in this receptor site, we get a flush or a rush of adenosine.

Now when we’ve got enough adenosine in the body, it’s when we say hey, it’s time to stop producing Melatonin is time to go to sleep. The issue comes is that when we’re getting flushes, so you’re getting spikes because it’s it’s always hard and got room to move into this receptive site. So wants to capture done you get a big hot hit of adenosine, is that we’re getting sparks in our energy levels all day long. So what happens is essentially, it’s like what we talked about the sugar roller coaster, very similar sort of thing, where you’re getting a big release of energy, and then it crashes down. And then we have a big release of energy and it crashes down

Stacey 27:18
with each new coffee.

Matt 27:19
Exactly. That’s why people then go and reach for a coffee at 6am. A coffee at 10am. One at 1pm on at 3pm. And so it goes their day.

Bill 27:28
Yeah, right. Okay, so you described what I was trying to say earlier, much better than I did remember when I was trying to put that stuff in your brain or in your things?

Matt 27:35

Bill 27:36
You said it beautifully. Matty, I knew what you’re saying. But I don’t have a way to iterate that so you did it beautifully. And and that’s what people don’t realize, and how would you realize that when you hear about all these amazing things that it does, for you, apparently, you know, it’s a great thing to have a stimulant in your life. But it’s not necessarily a great thing to have a stimulant in your life. And I’ve done a podcast, I’ve done a short clip quite a few years ago, and I’ll link it in the show notes where I talk about the right time to have coffee.

And it’s and it’s based on if I’m going to have that one coffee a day, or talk about that the right time is about an hour and a half to two hours after you’ve woken up so that the body is able to go through it’s a natural cortisol spike to wake you up, and then calm down and come out of that cortisol spike so that when you’re having the coffee, it’s not making you wake up. It’s just giving you whatever caffeine or coffee gives you and not to have one it after that it was my was my tip, you know. So I love what you’re saying about how specifically it gets in the way of those parts of, you know, the the brain receptors that stops people from being able to take the signals from the environment around us from the sun that you meant to be awake. And as the sun goes down, you meant to start getting ready for sleep.

Matt 28:59
Yeah, yeah, definitely. There’s something more beneficial things you can drink first thing in the morning, like we get very dehydrated overnight. So having like a litre of water first thing or a big glass of water first thing is really beneficial.

Stacey 29:12
Apple cider vinegar and lemon.

Matt 29:13

Stacey 29:14
in it.

Matt 29:14
A little bit of pink Himalayan salts are really good as well. If you want to put it in your water it is a mix, like a little concoction of all, all three of those plus the water, you can find that you kind of rehydrate your body and that the salt is because it will help you to it’s like an electrolyte it acts as an electrolyte so it helps you to retain the water and you’ll actually start feeling a hell of a lot better. But you can also do things like breath work like simple breathing through your nose of a morning can help to wake you up a lot more than what a cup of coffee can do.

Stacey 29:41
And then in that concoction, the lemon helps to create more alkaline situation in the body even though it is an acidic item actually allows the pH to go more into an alkaline state. And then the apple cider vinegar helps with stimulation of your digestive juices. So that when you do eat your breakfast, helps you to absorb more nutrients, because it’s helping to break down the food more effectively.

Bill 30:04
Awesome when this call ends, you guys are going to send me the ingredients list and the measures so we can put it on the show notes as well. And if people want to jump onto that, I’m going to definitely taste it give it a go.

Stacey 30:17
layering on what you said about the best time to have coffee if you all going to have it and already having one a day. Something that I’ve always recommend to people is to only have a coffee on days where you don’t feel tired.

Bill 30:28
ohh I Like that,

Stacey 30:30
which is counterintuitive, as we were saying, you know, most people will use it as a stimulant to wake them up. But if you’re already tired, you’re already stressed, you’re already in high cortisol mode. So if you’ve had a really restful sleep, you’re feeling awesome. Usually people are going to have a coffee maybe once a week, we recommend they do it on a weekend after they’ve had like an amazingly blissful sleep, they going out for brunch with some family or friends. And they get to enjoy that one coffee a week, then when they feeling rested.

Matt 30:57
Just to add to that a good sign of if you’ve seen well as you should wake up feeling refreshed. If you don’t wake up feeling like ready to go, then there’s been something wrong with your sleep. So if you’re constantly tired, it would be a good sign that your sleep is not going to plan. So that could be for instance, that you’re talking about your wife before she’s got her normal. She knows what her normal feels like. That’s all she knows. If she was to remove the caffeine for 30 days, she might find that her new normal is incredibly different to what her old normal was. So not having a cup of coffee before bed could mean that she actually gets a deeper level of sleep. And she wakes up feeling more refreshed. It’s hard to know

Stacey 31:34
She bounces out of bed.

Matt 31:35

Bill 31:35
I’m not telling her. I’m going to show her this.

Matt 31:39

Bill 31:42
Awesome. So how does it interrupt with our brainwaves?

Caffeine and altered brain signals

Matt 31:46
Yeah, so what what happens is what we find commonly is that people get a cup of coffee to sit down and do really, really good work like I’m going to really focus I’m going to have a cup of coffee, I mean get into but what actually happens is it puts you into your your fight or flight mode. So state the Stacey was talking about before, which is not intuitive for getting into a flow state. S

o if we’re thinking about being controlled and concentrated, it’s really not going to be in a fight or flight mode, like your your brain is set to get in your way and stay alive. And that’s it. So the only time that would be favorable as if you were for instance, training that could be a favorable factor to be in. Outside of that is not really going to do much good. Because what we find is you tend to procrastinate a lot when you’re in this this state of mind, because you’re trying to focus on the thing, the task at hand, however your brain is telling you not to focus on that. It’s like, hey, there’s an alert and aware. So I was like what’s around me? What’s going on? How do I make sure that I’m going to be all right? Oh, what’s this email and what that text and or what’s on Facebook, and it stops you from actually ever achieving work. So as a brainwave state, it doesn’t put you into a great state at all.

And I mean, to top that off, what you can do is things like there’s there’s tunes, you can listen to like bi binaural beats. And so you can use them as headphones, like in your headphones or, and just listen to it while you’re doing work. And it will tell you, it will put you right into the right state of mind that you need to be. And so it’s a good way to help you get into like a flow state when you’re trying to do some good quality work.

Bill 33:14
Ok. So again, it’s counterintuitive, people think that caffeine gives them energy gets makes them alert and therefore makes them focus better on things. And often, you know, students from every level of life who have ever studied for anything that they have to do the next day have done an all nighter and they’ve done it on caffeine, everyone’s done it on caffeine. So I tend to agree with you. And I think what I like about the conversation that we’re having is what it’s doing is it’s just making people think about stuff that they thought was the right thing to do.

And usually we picked up that information from a marketing agency who was trying to sell a cup of coffee that somebody was, you know, wanting to take to market. So you’re going to really question where you know your information from? And if you’ve never, ever asked if that’s right, or if that’s wrong? And how do I know if it’s right? And how do I know if it’s wrong, then you might be getting led down the garden path and giving yourself a stimulant that you don’t really want to be having anything to do with or at least extremely minimizing that, that intake. So we spoke briefly on acidity before about lemon how that helps with regulating acidity in the body. Caffeine does the opposite. How does caffeine increase acidity? Or? What’s that all about?

Caffeine increases acidity in the body

Stacey 34:42
Yeah, so I mean, caffeine being one of the inflammatory five of the fun five that we encourage people to swap out for a period of time, if not forever, that’s that’s a choice, obviously, that the individual has to make. It comes from it being an acidic food item. So the the coffee bean itself is acidic. And so then when it’s ground down and made into coffee, and then we ingest it, it then makes us acidic. And and the domino effect so the compounding effect, once that enters the body is that it can affect us on a cellular level, down to I’ve got all those immune systems that we referred to before, they are all experiencing, I guess, a swelling response.

And I think we mentioned this on our sugar podcast with you. But you know, inflammation on a an acute level on a small phase like you cut yourself and all the little inflammatory cytokines little fighter, people come in and fix it and repair it, you get a little bit of swelling and redness. That’s great. But if that’s happening in your entire body from all the food and drink you’re eating every day, that then can lead to manifestation of diseases later down the track, whether that be you know, recurrence of a stroke touch would not but you know, diabetes, heart disease, all of those nasty diseases that tend to be quite affluent in our lives today come from an inflammatory response. And I’m not saying that coffee is the only culprit. I’m just saying that it’s going to add fire to the fuel

Matt 36:20
it’s like rusty pipes

Stacey 36:21
fuel to the fire. I’m doing it. again

Matt 36:22
Yeah. It’s like having rusty pipes rusting from the inside out.

Bill 36:27
Yeah, I agree with that. So you know how you talked about adding fuel to the fire. That’s what I feel like I did with the bleed in my brain. So it was a congenital issue. And it didn’t need to bleed. But it probably was more likely to bleed because I did certain things that created that. I had a high level of stress job I had eating, I wasn’t eating well, I was consuming all the fun five at massive doses, I was smoking, I was you know, just doing all those little things. And slowly, slowly adding more and more of them to the mix, to create what I call the perfect environment, the perfect storm for the wrong thing to happen.

I didn’t know what it was that it was going to happen. But it happened and it happened to be in my head. And if something’s gonna go wrong, it’s one of the worst places for it to go wrong. So I certainly reflect on my time before stroke as being really damaging to my body. And unfortunately, recently, I’ve lost two people that that I grew up with, that I spent a lot of time with in my teens who were in the early and mid 40s. And they died from what we consider to be things that older people die from, like heart related issues and that type of thing. And if I remember correctly, you know, we used to smoke together with them, we do all the stuff together with them.

And throughout the three of us have had something serious, real serious happen. Those two didn’t make it but somehow I got away with it. So it’s a real big conversation. It’s a real, deeper conversation. And if you’re watching and listening, the reason why I want to bring you this information is because of the massive impact that it will have in your life later on down the track of that we’re not aware of. And how could you because you know, you think you’re bulletproof until something bad happens. So. So that’s a little bit of me going off on the side tangent, but trying to give an insight as to what my thinking is, and why we need to know about this stuff.

Stacey 38:31
Yeah, and thank you for sharing, also, hopefully empowering other people to go, you did make it through and and you’re using that to hopefully now educate others to take a stand and you know, respect the lives that they’ve been given?

Bill 38:45
Yeah, I think so respect the body. And this has cost me so much money. I mean, people don’t understand that when you have stroke. It impacts you in every way physical and emotional, and the rest of it, but it has cost me a ton of money. I’ve lost productivity, which is lost work, which is lost revenue, which is lost all sorts of stuff. So if you think that it’s expensive, you know, to do something with regards to go to the gym and look after your health or, you know, get a coach or get somebody to guide you along the path of you know, being better and well, you’re wrong. That’s not expensive. spending five grand on your health in one year’s not expensive, trying to get back to work after a brain injury. That’s expensive.

So as I was saying, Yeah, for me, it’s really been eye opening as to this whole journey that I was on, that got me to unwell has been, has been eye opening because of these little things had I done them. And I don’t blame myself for not having done them. And nobody should be harsh on themselves, but had I not done them, it would have saved me a heck of a lot of money. And looking into the future, I want to get to 99 being really healthy and really well, rather than the really struggling to get to 99% kind of health. If that’s how far I make it, I want it to be high quality. So that’s why we are talking about these things.

Now. When I’ve read nutritional information before about getting six or seven or eight cups a day of water, in your diet or in your body. Many times they’ve spoken about caffeine, teas and all that type of stuff or caffeinated beverages, teas and all that kind of stuff are okay to include in that eight, or seven or eight or six cups a day. And I thought wow four, smash four coffees have four cups of water.

Matt 40:42
Good to go.

Stacey 40:42
Where is this literature? You?

Bill 40:46
Were not gonna link to it. But I’m, you know,

Matt 40:49
I’ve definitely seen the same stuff previously,

Caffeine will dehydrate you

Stacey 40:51
which is funny because at uni, they definitely did not teach us that it was definitely like caffeinated beverages don’t get included. And actually we do have a caffeinated beverage you then need to increase your water intake on top of that, because, yes, okay, you’ve had your eight cups, but then you have a caffeinated beverage, it makes your it makes you go to the toilet more. So it does dehydrate you because it inhibits your anti diuretic hormones, it makes you go to the toilet until you then need to drink another cup of water to replace what’s been lost because you had the coffee on the tea.

Matt 41:24
And if you look at what’s happening there on a cellular level, going back to the science side a little bit more. Each cell that were made up of has a little thing called the mitochondria in mitochondria is getting a lot of buzz at the moment, but it’s because it’s the energy. It’s like a battery pack of each cell. So it’s like the energy producing hub. And when we dehydrate it, what happens is these big plump mitochondria come from a big thing to be like a shrivelled up small thing that can’t.

Stacey 41:52
As a prune, like a grape to a prune

Matt 41:53
Exactly. Yeah. And so it can’t, it can’t work in the way that it’s meant to work. It doesn’t produce as much energies as it is meant to produce. So when we’re dehydrated, we tend to be less effective as humans and less energy dense as humans.

Yeah, crazy right now,

Bill 42:12
my, my natural path. When I’ve been to her, she’s asked me to do a blood prick test. And she puts the blood directly under the microscope and shows me live what’s happening. And she should come in, we’ll go in and within three minutes, she’ll go. So if you had any water to drink today, how much water Did you drink yesterday, look at your cells, they’re not moving, they’re not doing anything. And sure enough, because I don’t want to disappoint her. Before I go to the second session or the next session, I drink a whole bunch of water. And I make sure that I’m all hydrated. And but the beauty of that is I dont disappoint her.

But also I get to see the cells moving and going, really, you know, frantic doing what they do. So I’ve seen the actual video footage of that of my own one. So hopefully I’ll drag that out and put it on this. I put a link on that as well. Well to show people

Matt 43:00
that would be cool

Bill 43:01
what we what we mean. So I get what you’re saying about the hydration. And my naturopath said to me from time to time as you know, how come you’re not drinking more water? And also I just don’t understand thirst. It’s a weird thing. And I learned afterwards, I learned that people mistake it mistake thirst for being hunger. Can you shed some light on that? Is that something that truly happens?

Stacey 43:27
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And vice versa. Sometimes when people are feeling hungry, they’re actually thirsty. But with regard to when you feel the first activate, like when when you sense that you might need a drink, it’s already too late by then you’re already dehydrated. So if you think of it like similar to how you want to prevent disease, we want to prevent dehydration from happening. So it’s it almost has to be a proactive rather than a reactive situation.

So knowing that you need to get certain quoter of water in a day, you carry around a massive water bottle with you. And then you know, that you need to get through, I need to get through 2 of these a minimum a day. And then you just start sipping. And oftentimes I’ll encourage people every time they check the time, or another good one, because then it’s frequent every time you check your phone, have a sip of water. And then rather than needing to guzzle, at least you’re on time, you’re trickling it into your system throughout the day, and you’re just pairing it with something that you’re already doing regularly, to retrain and re re develop that habit. So you develop the neural pathway from your brain to your body to make that happen, rather than waiting until you get the first response, or the hunger response, whether you’re confusing those two, whatever is is kind of resonating for you. But you’re drinking before you get to that stage.

Bill 44:49
You know, what happens is I don’t remember to drink. And it’s quite possible that sometimes, or I don’t get the signals, or I’m not sure what it is, maybe I’m just slack. Sometimes I may eat instead of drink. And I don’t know if I’m doing that so much as just not drinking. So hunger tends not to be a massive issue for me, but I don’t know that I’m thirsty. And it’s bizarre.

Matt 45:14
Yeah, I’d say outside of your meal times, try to drink a lot then like rather than drinking with your meal. It’s better to try drink outside your meal time. So it’s almost like you stopped for food. So try to make it a habit to stop for water as well. And I mean, the good thing is, if you’re an office worker, or something like that you can use as an excuse to hop up and move around, which will once again get you active and get you feeling a little bit more, I guess up beat and more energized. For someone at home like we both work from home. So what we do is like Stacey said, we’ve just got our water bottles all the time, like wherever we go. That’s it’s like phone, keys, wallet, water bottle, whenever we’re out and about, I guess the same thing that we always do. So it’s always in the car. It’s always with us if we’re out and about or if we’re at home. It sits on our desks with us.

Stacey 45:56
We don’t drink out of glasses, we only drink out of our water bottles.

Matt 46:00
quite weird.

Bill 46:01
Just remind me to bring a water bottle to dinner when I come along.

Stacey 46:04
Yeah. We have then in the house, for guests and things

Matt 46:08
We just have to brush off the dust thats all,

Bill 46:13
So to wrap up, as we get into the end of this, I’m just going to recap on the seven things that we spoke about. We talked about faster vs slower metabolize of caffeine, we talk about that it’s a appetite inhibitor, we talked about that it increases your cortisol levels and stresses you out. It mucks around with your energy and it interferes with our sleep. Okay, it decreases our brains waves to actually help us be at peak performance increases acidity in the body. And it can be something that gets involved with dehydration. So there are at least seven reasons that people should consider giving caffeine the flick consider it guys, we’re not going to tell you how to run your life. But especially if you’re somebody recovering from a brain injury, absolutely 100% try it so that you can get a feel for how much difference you will feel when you’re not actually taking caffeine. And on the topic of water. Is all water good water. Do you have a comment on that just as we go down the rabbit hole of water

Stacey 47:18
we do and we Yeah, we feel like we could do a whole nother podcast. But just briefly you’re you’re aiming for filtered water is ideal. There’s different levels of filtered water. I mean, if people want to go like reverse osmosis water that’s going to be the most optimal drinking imported water is also great if you’re getting it from somewhere like Italy or

in the Scandinavian countries

Matt 47:44
countries really good quality water base and the longitude latitude and how

Stacey 47:47
the Voss water is the bomb its amazing

Matt 47:51
based on what happens magnetically with the with the world and how it sits essentially and what that does to your water level. So it is really quite an in depth. Quite a rabbit hole.

Stacey 48:01
Yeah, but just you know, if you if you’re looking to start somewhere, please don’t drink tap water straight out of the tap, filter it some way whether that be through one of those white magnesium filters

Matt 48:13
you can get from woolies or coles,

Stacey 48:15
but rather have it in pottery rather than plastic because that’s a whole nother

Matt 48:19
thing again

Stacey 48:19
story And then drinking it out of non plastic items, even if they say BPA free. aim for stainless steel or glass or even silicone is going to be better than plastic of any kind.

Bill 48:32
Okay, so people watching who are from Australia, they might have recognized this cup. It’s a Degani coffee cup. It’s the last coffee that I had this morning. And now I’ve filled it with water. So just in case you’re wondering, and you’ve noticed this guy’s talking about caffeine and getting off and he’s drinking one. I’ve drunk one this morning will be the last one for a while. And now it has water in there but I can show you that. Or maybe

Matt 48:56
I can see yeah, there you go.

Bill 48:58
Cool. So guys, thanks so much much for being here again. I really appreciate it. Just remind everybody where they can go and find out a little bit more about you.

Stacey 49:07
Absolutely. Thank you for having us also, yes, so you can visit our website We are also on Facebook and Instagram as the chief lief and yeah your

Matt 49:20
thats all linked through the website really you are always welcome to flick us an email there is a contact form. If you’ve got any questions. We we love to help so yeah,

Bill 49:28
Matty are you being a gentleman now and doing more of the housework and making sure that Stacey is just being chill?

Matt 49:35
Funny you should say that. Stace actually just put up a picture on Instagram last night tagging me saying look I’m cooking for the first time in five months

Stacey 49:43
second time second time

i did it because my friend Carina came around

Matt 49:46
Yeah, so yes!

Stacey 49:49
I haven’t been that bad but like the nausea in the first 3 months did couch bound me a little bit couch bind me. Um, so yeah, cooking has been a struggle but luckily he he’s very domesticated gentlemen. So he’s always been been good but he’s just stepped up even more now.

Bill 50:08
So Matty she’s stepped up even more but you’ve got also cook for to now not just

Matt 50:12
exactly. yep, the hardest thing is is that one day so nice will really want something like I’m gonna get ahead. I’m gonna cook her for that. I’m going to cook her that tomorrow. And when I go to cook it she’s like, What is that smell? Get it out of this place like oh no

Stacey 50:29
and it’s not me. It’s you baby making all of the decisions

Bill 50:33
I love it. guys. You guys are the best. Thank you so much for being on the podcast. I look forward to our next part three of the fun five series.

Cant wait Bill thanks so much.

Intro 50:43
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