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Emma Ashford, a research fellow in defense and foreign policy at the Cato Institute, joins Matt for a wide-ranging discussion on China and the Middle East, the United States’ relationship with Russia since the Cold War, and the defense budget. They also explore the difference between restraint and realism, and whether or not President Donald Trump is an isolationist.

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Subscribe for free to the Ezra Klein Show, a Vox podcast where Ezra brings you far-reaching conversations about hard problems, big ideas, illuminating theories, and cutting-edge research.

About Vox:Vox is a news network that helps you cut through the noise and understand what's really driving the events in the headlines.

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