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This extra to episode 72 features an additional few minutes with author, systems thinker and regenerative soils educator, Nicole Masters. It stems from the enthralling part of our conversation in the main episode about soil, the microbiome, gut health and our immune systems (from around the 40-minute mark). This triggered a question that I’d thought about a while back, after speaking with Dr Zach Bush on all this for episode 62. What are the implications of all this for the polarised debates around vaccinations? You can hear the rest of our conversation in the main episode, ‘Restoring the Metropolis of Living Earth: From the chemical paradigm to nature’s paradigm’ - You’ll find a series of photos on that web page too. Title slide pic: Nicole Masters (supplied). Thanks to the generous supporters of this podcast, for making it possible. If you too value what you hear, and have the capacity at this time, please consider joining them by heading to our website at Thanks for helping to keep the show going! Get in touch any time by text or audio at And thanks for listening.

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