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This week, I speak with Kishshana Palmer, a brilliant trainer, speaker, and thought leader when it comes to management and leadership in the nonprofit sector.

I have spent 2 decades working in the nonprofit and social impact sectors, and I’m in love with these people. You work hard, you are smart, dedicated, and incredibly resourceful. And it drives me up the wall that the people in this sector are so often underpaid, and instead of being treated like the resourceful humans they are, they often are treated like machines who are expected to churn out social impact non stop.

Kishshana and I delved into this dynamic at length, and talked about what gets in the way of us celebrating and cultivating the excellence that is right here in this sector. Kishshana is a captivating speaker. She is funny, wise, and bold in her declarations of where she thinks this sector needs to be heading.

Towards the end of my conversation with Kishshana, we talked about how in the nonprofit space, we often see our colleagues as more than colleagues, but like family. We talked about the strengths and pitfalls that come with that.

And the week after this episode comes out, I’ll share an email that unpacks that idea more, and offers resources on things you can do to build on that as a strength, while avoiding some of the considerable downsides.

If you’d like to get the takeaways from this episode, as well as all the others, go to, and subscribe.

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