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‘I could have been a left-wing guerrilla in Columbia. Whatever would have grabbed me at the right time, I was ready for.’ What ended up grabbing Frank was neo-Nazism. What ended up grabbing Jesse was jihadi extremism. What do we see when we look beyond ideology? This episode was produced with generous support from the Gen Next Foundation (, which leverages a venture philanthropy framework to build paradigm-shifting social ventures with a wide footprint of impact. Their partnership with ISD and Google Jigsaw created the Against Violent Extremism (AVE) network. It is the first and only network of former extremists and survivors of terrorism. Leveraging their powerful and authentic voices, this peer-to-peer solution disrupts radicalization and hate group recruitment.

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