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Episode Info: hinking that like. Bye-bye doing at 21 years out your way less likely to have people pulling out your old report in 21 years. Michelle: [10:07] I hope so that's my that was my makeup there. Jason: [10:11] Going back to our original theme of ways in which Michelle is smarter than Jason. Reading between the lines when you were describing the report in the the specific missions that people would still have in brick and mortar stores, I made an inference and I'm not sure you explicitly call that which is maybe retail isn't as. Maybe physical retail isn't as important or replenishment as it is today and that you know it more has this roll around these these special missions like like something you want to try before you buy, when you just want to serendipitously discover some. Michelle: [10:49] Yeah so when you think about different sort of purchases I think you've hit the nail on the head we talked about this a little bit in the home environment which. Rob is going to talk about in a few more minutes and I think dads were the replenish Amazon you obviously iot is starting to take off Smart appliances and whatnot so the idea of your washing machine belt. Shade or inform you when you need to charge it those kind of purchases could be outside of mice more so in terms of physical Outlet which is what we talked about in the in the retail store section we think that there's going to be kind of suppose by categories that there would be a convenience store for those those purchases that are Shirley just impulse buys I'm where you're walking down the street and and you just want to water or you. You know we're going home to make dinner and you you know you need milk or whatever that item is there that you don't want to have delivered and then the other type of storefront there would be would be more of an experiential Center I'm so this gets to that point of consumers Battle of touch feel, experience products that require oftentimes more consideration so maybe it's something like Furniture maybe it's apparel, beauty products I'm also come to mine. Jason: [12:18] Yeah and in a report when you talk about these sort of experiential centers. It sounds like the bar is significantly raised over like what we think of is experiential retail today so I today you throw a coffee shop into a retail store and now it's it's experiential retail but like what what are some of the examples of. Of the kind of experiential Center that you guys are envisioning and 24. Michelle: [12:44] Yes or no example that we included in the report is around the idea of a sports apparel store so you might have and I think there's there's flavors of this that an Under Armour my do in a flagship store were you you know you can go in and let's say there's treadmills where you might try on shoes you know trying to see how they fit what we're talkin about also in that scenario is why does it have to be a treadmill if you're trying to buy cleats because you play soccer why couldn't it have more of a substance that's more like turf or grass something I've seen in some stores today is this notion of taking a shower of concept in game if I in it so obviously you could go in there it could be for trying on the product or it could just be are you competing against yourself for 6 months ago or competing against a friend and I think a big saying is also like the kind of testing areas so you see some of that with with beauty products today and you'll leveraging AR to kind of see how that. [13:53] Shade looks on you and that type of thing what we are talking about in this world is a room that's sort of changes and you see some of it with changing lighting but we're even talking about change in temperature or changing to rain so a story that we talked about in the report is, this lady is preparing for a trip to Patagonia because I went Patagonia this year so that was top of mind and I you know needed to buy a winter coat so she's prompted to go into the store because they have this type of information on her interest her she's able to go into this room with this winter Co and see how it would truly feel because we know there's, I was like think about when you you know by clothes that they need to keep you warm and it's. 70° in a store it's hard to to kind of get that sense of how it might work and then the other big element that we talked about. With this particular example is this idea of. [15:00] Very much a game that you can play and we think for those retailers that really kind of nail and experience and make it unique that they could certainly even charge entry 2 to allow consumer Steven to play this game so what we've outlined in the report is the idea that you know maybe LeBron James is your favorite player and so you always dream about playing him in NBA Finals so we have some imagery in the report and so there is in the image graphic ran or holographic representation of LeBron. You as a consumer you have the ball and in your getting ready to take the game-winning shot so if there's those kind of experiences that really. Bring to life something that you might not be able to experience I'll swear you know perhaps that's something that a consumer might be willing to pay to build experience. Jason: [16:02] I like it and just a clarification for listeners that LeBron James she's talking about is LeBron James jr. who will be the. Michelle: [16:09] In 2040. Jason: [16:13] And I came back you might be coming up on the end of his career by that but I'm I'm pleased to hear because you know for people that believe in global warming I'm I was somewhat worried you might not need a coat in Patagonia in 20. Michelle: [16:27] Yeah that's that's touch-and-go right now you have a good point there. Scot: [16:33] So you're on the show we're big fans of AR VR 3D printing and some of those things that when Jason I talked a lot about them retailers kind of glaze over because they feel really gimmicky and and not like they're not going in Back to Future I was excited to see those mentioned in the report how do you how do you see those fitting into the store of the future. Michelle: [16:53] Yes I think you're right we actually do an annual survey of Industry professionals globally where we ask them about Technologies and where they're investing right now like looking out 5 years a eyes number one I'll choose number 2 but seems like 3D printing. Still fairly low arvr is kind of middle of the pack so it it certainly mirrors what what I hear as well and I think you know in that survey we asked them all so well why are you not investing in the topic, the top reason back of tends to be a lack of a clear business use case so I think we're still going with how this, you know how smooth the business forward arvr is certainly something that comes in quite a bit in this report for sure. [17:49] I think you know where this, a r I think about the use cases even today and terms of you know you know the being able to try on makeup. Being able to you know see. Clothes on yourself made it when you're not in the store the sizing getting more accurate sizing that type of thing and hopefully you know when we think about VR and we think about those kind of headsets I'm across the worlds we we keep calling them world's or environments in the report when we talk about VR and we think about the headsets we think about them being that more Spiffy's and something like the Google Glasses that we've seen in the past something that. You know you might actually wear that it would be a fashionable piece of I wear it wouldn't be maybe as intrusive as well time to bring things to life 3D printing is something we talked about in the retail store area and I don't know that we're, that it would come to a place where you know everything is printing on-site what we've talked about is if if you're trying on a shirt in the fitting room and in maybe it's a V cop that you want to run to cut maybe you can make small adjustments like that and have it printed. Scot: [19:16] Call how about I think you talked a little bit about kind of to use your Patagonia example where if you were trying on something you could you could see yourself and kind of us an AR mirror so we can see how, maybe they don't actually have the Garment there in the store and you can see how a different color would look or something like that you see that kind of technology being in the store or more kind of in the home. Michelle: [19:41] Why thinking both places are certainly and we can talk about it probably more in the home but, we had a pretty detailed imagery and in the report where we talked about a woman trying on product in the mirror and in what the experience around now with the you know I do think smart mirrors. In the retail environment have been around for a few years for sure and where we're seeing them more and more I think there's definitely a strong use case for those in terms of how they can. Kind of extended use cases and and helps it move. Bring different colors or Cuts or whatever it is to life for a consumer. Jason: [20:33] Yeah said to me it's like there's an it's hard to talk about each of these three things separately because in some ways I feel like they do overlap a lot and since you are. You know I'm kind of taking the the perception of the consumer that makes perfect sense. You talk a lot in the report about like increased demand for personalization and I feel like that's one of the areas where. You know some flavors of this 3D printing make an awful lot of sense is it like it's probably not true in 2040. That very many people are all walking around wearing a carbon copy of the same thing. Like we're using the same thing right like it you don't you don't have the same glasses prescription and it just feels like by 2040. There's going to be much more opportunity for for everything we use a known in life to be much more tailored to us and our unique. Differences in taste and flavor. Michelle: [21:29] I think that's entirely accurate and personalizations a common theme across the report certainly what you're talking about is is more so that product we bring home and the ability to kind of slice and dice it so what we want which I think is going to be certainly more feasible and it is probably, you know what I was describing with that 3D scenario is that if you're trying it on in a fitting room a certain shirt and you can see different cuts of it you can see different colors of it you know maybe this is a shirt today that's only sold in two colors in one cut but in 2040 could be in 03 * 8 Bridal 24 different versions of it that could be slightly different not to mention just the cut of the shirt you know like the way it fits you write the nobility we would have some more Taylor it, to a consumer as well. Scot: [22:28] 2 with the store of the future it wouldn't be a Jason Scott Shofu didn't talk about Amazon is is Amazon play a role in 2040. Michelle: [22:38] Will it be around in 2040. Scot: [22:43] For they are they what's Amazon look like in 2040. Michelle: [22:48] Are they serious. Yeah that's that's quite a ways out I would say if they continue on the same trajectory and and I'll continue to put the customer first and adhere to that sort of business principal than in theory they would still continue to be relevant obviously the world is fast changing so any number of things could happen you know I think with Amazon. And in the in the society that we live in as opposed to somewhere like a China just the sheer amount of of size that they have. Their tentacles so many different areas know they are the antitrust thing also comes up in what they might look at look like come in but you know I think Amazon also knows that, I can't fall asleep at wheel because. You know there's a lot of players like a like a Sears or a blockbuster Kodak they're all classic examples of people that were top of their industry and then. Lost Focus. Scot: [24:00] Yap's alethea you have to kind of self self innovator or else you'll get an intubated. Jason: [24:10] Yeah I do. I mean obviously I could go either either way but I do that you know Jeff Bezos has this quote that I admire, no Empire has successfully predicted it done to my eyes, he seems much more aware of How likely it is that bite by keys I just got a question of if Amazon well. Go pass relevance win and then he has the funny one liner I just want to make sure it out as me. Michelle: [24:41] Yeah and I think they kind of their other strategy is Bill in that defensive mindset right like they're they're always coming out fighting from their regard. Jason: [24:52] I do think it's going to be interesting I do you know I think it's easy to kind of bifurcate retail into the like all that you just sort of Need for filament replenishment and. That's obviously the the way the area that Amazon's dominating and leaning and then there's all of this sort of. Experiential you know personalization all these sorts of things that Amazon doesn't plan as much like I think it's rather Complicated by these non-retail businesses than Amazon's really selling at so like you know. Maybe they're they're the backbone of the internet in 2040 and in retail has become a boring industry that they don't Focus. Michelle: [25:33] If you if you think about Amazon. If we assume what I'm talking about Commerce 24 it comes to fruition and we think about Holly Amazon layers over it obviously they could dominate when it comes to kind of that General the filament of a replenish our products that I talked about in the home area you know maybe in a retail store maybe it's questionable I was so they pushed into stores more so and they certainly could do more I think a big area when we talked about their future as with Alexa and if they're able to win that battle to you to be one of the default choices for consumers because certainly across this report I talked a lot about that kind of voice first mentality. Jason: [26:19] Oh for sure like part of me is like I'll be thrilled it by 2040 they finally know which lights I mean when I say. Michelle: [26:26] Stars of things to be worked out for sure. Jason: [26:32] That's a video of machine learning is it like you're going to incrementally get better every year for the rest of life like I'm like you know the human brain which like does not end. Over over the Long Haul so yeah I know I do think that's interesting and I'll just be at the moment like in some ways they're they're much smarter about trying to make their technology open in ubiquitous. There's like some interesting news about just how much renewed effort they have in winning the the car dashboard and how far they're going to go to give away the voice technology to the car manufacturer or something like that because I. Michelle: [27:10] Well it's it it's the operating system of the future right now is it going to be it feels like the next generation of like the Apple iOS kind of battle. Jason: [27:23] Yeah for sure and I do I'm going to go back up I'm not I'm definitely not going to get in the business of predicting and Amazon's demise but I will say like one thing that is interesting about. You know so today personalization is a lot about personalized they experience and I do believe that increasingly is going to be economically viable to personalize products as we already talked about. And so-so For Better or Worse one of Amazon shoe disadvantages in retail is. They've just invested orders of magnitude more in their fulfillment Network than anyone else since they're able to, hold more good closer to the customer and get it to the much faster and cheaper than anyone in their orders of magnitude ahead of everyone so they made this huge investment. It now gives them this huge advantage and service-level I'm which is all really smart but one thing that's interesting is it the world does go to. Products that are made to order and made on demand a lot of that existing an investment gets depreciated. So it it just either that is one of the things that you could imagine sort of. Being a little bit of a equalizer and reducing some of Amazon's competitive Advantage if it is a place. Michelle: [28:41] Well I'm thinking about you know even if it doesn't go that way to like how fast can it get you know it is it you know they're down to 1 hour for some products can they really get it to me faster it feels like. Jason: [28:57] Oh yeah the patent is they're going to have it waiting in your basement before you know you need it. Michelle: [29:00] Going to be creepy Leo living in my second bedroom or something. Jason: [29:05] I mean the picture of your basement. Michelle: [29:08] Oh that makes sense then that's those people work down there. Jason: [29:16] Bebe cool iron is in 24. Michelle: [29:18] Yeah I just feels like even on that front that other retailers could catch up I guess it's my point. Jason: [29:27] Know for sure it's going to I hope I'm I do want to pick up a little bit though we constantly talk about today and you know his butthole. Digital disruption and like in particular like everything's omni-channel like all these debates about how you measure sit like. Is that all gone away by 2040 like is there like a people still talking about these channels is different things and you know are we still. Segmenting sales by like people that deliver online and people that deliver and store what it what is omni-channel mean in 20. Michelle: [30:05] Well if we're going to get to this Vision I would hope on your channels and non-existent I think that's what it's really about is. Is not looking at it by these various channels and drawing these lines as much as it's about just being you know having a product. When the consumer wants to shop for it and where they want to buy at excetera excetera so if it's picking it up on their way home from a convenience store location or if it's having it shipped from that, that store to their home you know I think that's probably what really holds back retail and additional era today it's those kind of / it started because. Digital camera on 2nd right is so I think you almost have to get past that in and look at solving it from where the consumer vantage point from their point of view. Scot: [31:05] William I'm excited to shop in the store 2040 hopefully we can all do a repeat of this episode and we'll just on January first week of January E-40 we'll get together and I guess Chicago would be convenient for you guys and we'll go see the store of 2042 anniversary this episode so let's go home because you do paint this picture where you know today I don't really think much about shopping at home you've got them really kind of all integrated Ruston Way and when you described that house the future actually reminds me of Jason's house cuz I think he's got like 50 Alexa's you can see through his refrigerator and it orders things is espresso machine knows he needs an espresso every 10 minutes. Self self espressos for those of us who don't already live in the house at 2040 give us a walkthrough of what what you think that looks like. Michelle: [32:00] Yeah for sure so I think we are starting to see some of those Technologies come in as you describe it 20/20 starts we come up the volume higher because that's when several different Appliance manufacturers say that, all lines of their products. Will be connected so you'll see more of that come in at home so you know as we think about it you know voice is Paramount across all these worlds where we talked about it and then you know when the home certainly plays a role certainly the the the speakers are hearing a voice like we should Google home and Alexa as well you know there is an imagery and Aaron Imaging report where we have a connected fridge and it's still the same set up sort of idea that you might have stay we can make a list or order something I didn't see about. You know the 2040 version is the level personalization that comes in is what we're talking about is that it ties in to that individuals Health System let's say you know what maybe you're. [33:11] Wearing something like a Fitbit is tracking your exercise you know tracking your food and and when you go into the fridge at 8 to grab whatever it slaps you on the rest and says you know this is going to know your calorie count or what-have-you we also show a lot more screens couple different places in the kitchen in the bedroom so. You know anything about the interaction screw in the kitchen how you could monitor different levels or whether is energy temperature security excetera. [33:45] In the home or I mean in the the bedroom specifically we have is interactive mirror and this is one of my favorite parts of the world to kind of imagined and wrap my head around is that we have the same mother she's just trying on outfit for the morning two interactive mirror so she can quickly see what's in her closet kind of you using the technology just throw it on or there's ability using social media of tomorrow or private communication channels picture send it either sure girlfriend that she trusts will actually give her an opinion or to a group of random strangers and then there's an element where you could invite a holograph brand rep. Into your home now I don't think this is something that's going to be. [34:35] I'm not going to be invited to every brand into my home but I'm thinking about someone like an apparel retailer in the US whitehouseblackmarket that's a place that I shop at quite a bit it's a place and I'm comfortable buying online because I I've shopped enough in person that I know they're Cuts so I would know what sizes fit me best so if they're also very like a commission driven so there is no stylist there right on top of you when you go into the the outlet and in terms of helping you so I could see someone like that. Kind of Grand where they they already provide value in your life when you shop with them so you can invite them into the home to help you finish out a certain look so you have the skirt but what about a top that would go grade or a certain belter or what have you. Jason: [35:33] Yeah one of the things that excites me about that vision is today as a retailer. You get a lot of data about what consumers own but very little data about how they actually. Use what they write so, yo like it's it's a very but it's very binary like they have skinny jeans are they don't have skinny jeans they have it at you. But there's no contact and so you know when I read that sort of, homes in REO in ueno now like you don't give the customer Ops in and you know all that everything aligns you cannot share with that brand. Analytics on what you know what's actually in your closet and how often you wash it and how and how often you wear it and what you wear it with. And you know you could imagine the the AI recommendation engines of the future. Things bad with that much with your data source could be you know much more accurate at. Sort of you know truly finding things that made my life better than than the kind of basic recommendations that we have today and things like that so. Michelle: [36:43] Yeah and I don't want to creep out your entire audience face by any means I I don't think this is going to be every brand it's going to take a certain, there's a certain trust you would have other brand like that alright to give them that kind of information but once they've established that trust, I could see that type of thing. Jason: [37:02] I think one of the interesting trust ones to play out is the whole and you you paint a little bit of this in the report to is the whole integration of bike shopping and health care right though. You can imagine again that that facilitates a lot of better experiences if. Your grocery store knows that you have diabetes like like forget just like telling you if you're buying your calorie counter not like are you buying doctor approved items and are you know all of those kinds of things to come in a play but they're right there are potentially some. Some huge trust barriers enabling some of those experiences. But I do want to keep the audience out and so. The the potentially cool or creepy part to me is you got you seem to be pretty in on the robotic assistance so it like is are we straight up Jetsons are we going to get a sparrow. Michelle: [37:58] If they can fold my laundry I'm all about them coming so we talked about robotic-assisted from the idea that I might share one there could be different business models like maybe the outright own maybe they're leasing renting that type of thing there's a screen on its belly and stomach where we can see. [38:25] Show me the interactive screen where they able to talk to him or you know maybe they see entertainment program Maine or maybe Brands actually are able to push out messages through there but throughout our images as robot. Plays a role in one of them he. You know gets the products that were delivered that day and bring some to the kitchen in the one. In the bedroom on Mom's getting ready he's playing with the small child so he's not outright the babysitter mom still in the room but it's he's playing educational games with the kid and the scenario where describing here is you know it's a small kid they're playing blocks and the kid says you know where we are. You know what we're bubble he says Mom I'm bored in Oakland by the next Edition so what we're talkin about here's the idea that you know if you have you would. Police are out right on this robot and then you would buy in a certain packages so in that case maybe you bought the package for a two year old to three year old and now I need to upgrade to the four-year-old package something like that. Jason: [39:37] It's going to be interesting are you familiar there's a uk-based television series called humans. Michelle: [39:49] No I'm not but I need to watch it at. Jason: [39:51] Stay awake I think it's on AMC in the US and it a door a couple of Seasons or one season has was dislike. Somewhat distant future when like households were just started by affluent household could now afford the the Schumann eyes robots, and of course they're getting better every year and said they're all these financing plans and if you're middle class family like. You know do you make the financial sacrifices to invest in one of these things or do you have something symport you know and I. Because it's DJ's are psychos off the rails and ultimately you can't figure out like who the Androids are in the humans in. Driver bolt and try to of the pilot is very much in line with with a painted so you should know. Scot: [40:50] Clear you are in the report you suggest a lot of bran ways Brands inject themselves into the house you've given us a couple of those examples you Yeltsin reduce this kind of concept of passive consumption explain what that is and why connected home ring set alarm. Michelle: [41:06] Yeah for sure so I think we're starting to move into the air like I said 20/20 is a key or where there's a lot more appliances in the marketplace Mass consumers naturally upgrade things these appliances will be connected so the kind of Pastor consumption you know it's going to tie to those were punished for products I don't think. Any of us get up in the morning and work like super excited to go buy Tide laundry detergent so those kind of product choices are product decisions purchase decisions that we could just essentially automate so we we see technology today now that it's going to be even better into these machines you know it's able to measure consumption rather than purchase history that the retailer would have so some of this could be I'll try to my settings are still a question if the consumer want to be removed entirely or if they want to be paying down their phone to okay a decision but I think long-term is we think about this idea of passive consumption is certainly starts to. [42:14] You know shake up the retail industry as we know it consumer Appliance manufacturers with with. Attack in these appliances are able to get closer to Consumers offer things like remote monitoring maintenance kind of things to keep that relationship going you know what, just because. You know it's going to notify you need me more laundry detergent doesn't mean a retailer has to fulfill that there's a potential potential probably for a brand to do that as well so I think it starts to change the whole paradigm and it has a big impact anything about loyal to two because, you know you're a lock into a decision so there's less opportunities upon which a cpg brand like a a P&G could influence you to buy Tide I'm just switching by that versus what you might have been buying before. Jason: [43:11] Yeah I I D I think that's. Interesting totally viable in my in my mind that is another scenario that potentially causes Amazon to have to order the Amazons of the world. To have to Pivot right because, again there they build their business to try to be the world's most customer-centric business customer kind of. That their customer Persona today is a human and you know they built they invested in all these warehouses in this huge assortment because they feel like customers like huge assortment and they like to get the goods real fast. If the customer of the future is the LG dishwasher and it is ordering its own soap. You can imagine some of the things Amazon's investing and being less important right like the LG dishwasher might run a reverse auction and buy the soap from whoever can you know provide soap that has meat specs. They can provide it the cheapest and unlike the human that doesn't notice they're out of soap and told her out of soap and they needed in one hour the LG dishwasher that knows exactly how how frequently you've been washing dishes for the last 10 years. Can can order the soap well in advance and wants the cheapest Zillow soap that can be delivered on a very slow cost-efficient method. [44:31] I do think that that's going to be another that that's a potential another interesting. Curve that that some of the players of today might have to think about but I was more excited in your home thing you saw their super practical problem there's no porch piracy in 2014. Michelle: [44:49] I'm glad I did that. Jason: [44:55] Write like in CNS because the the delivery Guy waits until they know you're home and then they deliver the. Stages of close to you and then using this all the spectator they do it when you're home which I think is bad I do want to Pivot the to the entertainment venues in 2040. There are a bunch of a cool ideas and it seems like a VR plays a super prominent role you want to talk about that a little bit. Michelle: [45:22] For sure so you know I live in Chicago I'm actually a Cubs season ticket holder so we go to a ton of games and so when you think about. Dad experience that you have at the stadium today and then what am I be in 20 years you kind of have to just start to. [45:43] Weber jetting more technology to add to that in-stadium experience because it's already commented home I I was in a conversation with friends this weekend and someone was talking about the upcoming Bears game and how much a ticket cost and I don't want to deal with parking and all of that nonsense and I can just watch it when I can watch it at home on my 80 inch whatever TV so you know obviously. The stadium operators are competing in a new way you know against against the streaming services and in the technology you have at home to bring it Sabrina game The Lies We talked about is a are so think about those cool glasses that I described earlier that we would naturally have so how can we take AR and Leo over the action. [46:38] Deep in it so an example might be like from the baseball realm a key stat they often throw around you know what a picture is how many pitches is it you're on the game and you know that's going to start arrest come out as he hits a hundred or hundred five why have you what if you had all their stats because the players. When you could see their endurance level as something else is happening in the sixth inning he's just getting worn out because he pitched on three days rest. What other factors come into a horse's Commerce Elementary as well where you can order food to your seed order it too kind of a click-and-collect kind of location and then also Tynan to you watching the game the ability to order pre-order merchandise as well you know based on what players you might be taking an interest in. Scot: [47:34] Cool one of the things we haven't talked about his drones and there's a little bit of drone delivery in there but but here in the entertainment world you talk about this kind of cool you could be sitting there watching things and then switch to a different camera from from the Drone is how do you see those playing into the whole event situation. Michelle: [47:55] Yes I think it's just about you know. Angles on the game that you know so you know I think about it in terms of what you might see at home that you don't actually see when you're in person at the game from your seat currently you know if you guys I'm sure you guys have been probably Wrigley Field it's going through a lot of upgrades right now but if you think it back a few years ago without the jumbotrons without Cheap Eats around the stadium the idea of being able to see a closed play you know you want to re-watch it you want to build understand how it. What is the Players really say for whatever the scenario was so I think that's another way another kind of layer to it. Jason: [48:43] That like it's going to be awesome to live in that world Michelle in that's actually going to be a great place to me baby cuz once again we have used up our a lot of time for the show but if folks have a burning question and want to continue the dialogue we certainly encourage westerners to jump on our Facebook page or hit us up on Twitter Michelle is Whispers you want to contact you what's the best way to to find you online. Michelle: [49:11] For sure I am on Twitter and also linked Denso on Twitter it would be at Nevins in Evans 1/4 and then online Michelle Evans. Scot: [49:26] Cool we really appreciate taking time out of planning our feet are 21 + years future so to come on the show. Michelle: [49:35] Thank you was a pleasure to be with you guys. Jason: [49:38] Until next time happy commercing..........
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