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Episode Info

Episode Info:

On this week’s episode, we’re joined by Megan Gray, a passionate — probably one of the most passionate — freelance graphic designers I know. She lives on the edge of a canyon in Orange County, California, where she runs her business, House of Grays.


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In this 34-minute episode Brian Gardner, Lauren Mancke, and Megan Gray discuss:

  • Starting House of Grays in Orange County, CA
  • Designing for the people
  • Keeping focused among distraction
  • Experience gained while working in a traditional agency
  • The onboarding process of custom projects
  • Creative outlets beyond the 9 to 5
  • Following your own path instead of looking to others
  • Filtering out the noise

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The Show Notes The Transcript How to Stay Creative in a Distracted World

Voiceover: Rainmaker FM.

StudioPress FM is designed to help creative entrepreneurs build the foundation of a powerful digital business. Tune in weekly as StudioPress founder Brian Gardner and VP of StudioPress Lauren Mancke share their expertise on web design, strategy, and building an online platform.

Lauren Mancke: On this week’s episode, Brian and I are joined by Megan Gray to discuss being a creative entrepreneur in a distracted and often chaotic world.

Brian Gardner: Hey everyone. Welcome to StudioPress FM. I am your host Brian Gardner. I am joined, as always, with my co-host, the vice president of StudioPress, Lauren Mancke.

Lauren Mancke: Thank you for joining us again this week as we continue with another episode in our series of talking to members of the design community.

Starting House of Grays in Orange County, CA

Brian Gardner: Today we are joined by Megan Gray who is a passionate, probably one of the most passionate, freelance graphic designers I know. She lives literally on the edge of a canyon in Orange County, California where she runs her business House of Grays. Megan, it’s a huge pleasure to have you on the show. Welcome to StudioPress FM.

Megan Gray: Thank you. I am so happy to be here.

Brian Gardner: All right. Let’s talk about Megan Gray. Taken verbatim from your website, you live on the edge of a canyon which is primarily literal in your life but I’m guessing there’s some figurative relevance here. Also, why I knew you’d be a great fit to talk about being a creative entrepreneur in a distracted world. Let’s start at the beginning and go through the early years of your life all the way back from diapers, all the way to where you are now in the OC. How did all of this happen?

Megan Gray: First, I had never thought about the metaphor of how I live on the edge of a canyon. So thank you for that. Yeah, so I guess I won’t go all the way back to diapers because that will bore everybody but I will say that I had always thought of myself as a writer and that was what I did by trade for quite a while. I worked as an editor and writer for newspapers in the DC area.

I always felt like I wanted to be a designer, have a creative profession but I felt, maybe an inferiority complex, but I felt like that was something that was always out of my reach or that was better than me because I couldn’t draw, and I thought that that was what it took to be a creative professional or be an artist. If I look back from where I sit today and I look back at all the things I was interested in or the fact that I was using Photoshop to make flyers for things in college or that I would spend hours customizing my SmugMug website for my friend’s photos with HTML and CSS.

I look back and I see that’s where I was heading but I remember at the time that felt like something cool people did and I wasn’t one of them. I just kind of chugged along doing the writing and editing thing until at some point the publisher of one of the newspapers got a temper tantrum and fired the whole design team. Overnight I had to learn InDesign and layout two papers and get them to the press on time. That’s kind of when I felt like I had been beaten into the gang. I was ready to go. From then on it was all design for me.

Then we moved to California for my husband’s job. He works at Blizzard Entertainment, which is a pretty well known video game company. That really opened up a whole new world for me in design and creativity and moving to California because of the community here and just the design style. Yeah, a lot of different cool companies to work for here locally. That’s the journey.

Designing For the People

Lauren Mancke: I can relate a little bit to the traditional arts thing because I felt the same way. I’m not a great painter or drawer so when I was looking at a major I was nervous about doing just traditional graphic arts because you have to take all those classes. I can relate to that a bit. Your website says, you have a tag line on the about page that says, “Design for the people”. What is it about people that pulls you in?

Megan Gray: I guess it’s just when somebody is doing what they love. It doesn’t matter if it’s an electrical company or jewelry making or just another creative. It’s just so compelling to me and it’s almost contagious when you work around people that are passionate about what they do. It shows up in the way that they are always there. They’re always responsive. They have ideas. They’re dedicated. They’re just excited about it. That’s irresistible to me in the sense that … I don’t care what their style is, I don’t care what their industry is, I just want to partner with them in their success and bring whatever I can to the table to help them get further faster.

That is something that took me a while to realize but I used to care more about their aesthetic style or even the industry or the budget. But, now I’m just so excited to work with people who love what they do.

Brian Gardner: Does that get you into any problems? Perfect segue into just the idea of being kind of crazy and chaotic and schedules and so forth. The fact that you like people and working with people, does that enable you to possibly take on projects you shouldn’t that might not be a good fit just because immediately you’re like, “Yes, people. I want to take it.” Or are you able to filter through and say, “I love people, but I need to take on certain types of projects so I don’t kill myself trying to take on everything?”

Megan Gray: Totally. I see what you’re saying. For me, part of what I love about those people is that they tend to be respectful of my craft, which always includes them having some sort of mindset about that good work isn’t free or cheap, and that they also have some degree of success.

I guess the short answer would be that it doesn’t really create any problems because I think when you really feel sure that you know what you love and the type of work that you want to do, it makes it really clear for me when it’s not the right work or not the right person. So I have no problem anymore passing on the projects that I know aren’t right for me.

The people who are really passionate and show up and do this work and love what they do, they tend to get projects done on time, they pay quickly or early, and it just seems to be a more pointed, focused process from start to finish for me.

Brian Gardner: Yeah, we talked to Bill Erickson a little while back just about the process of his leads and how he generates leads and the filtering process. He says the contact page, there’s sort of a questionnaire type of page, if you ask enough questions, you can siphon out the people who will admit by filling out certain things that they’re not the right fit. What is your screening process on the front end before you even get to a point where you would talk to them? Is that set up in a way where, maybe it’s by budget or something that will kind of trim out those that aren’t the right fit without even having to correspond with them?

Megan Gray: Yeah, I think somewhat differently than Bill Erickson. People know more of what they want when they look for a designer. I think developers, people are a little less educated on what makes a good developer or an expert developer. They’re just happy to find one. You probably have to do a little bit more qualifying of the leads. Whereas, when you get to my site, if you don’t like peach or pastels or anything that’s a little different, you’re already not going to contact me.

There’s some trimming that already happens before I even get to people. Having a drop down default in the budget, I often get people who are like, “Is that your minimum? Because I can’t …” Then I know where they’re at with budget. People who are wary that I even ask for a budget like I’m a shady mechanic, I know we’re off to a bad start.

Then a lot of times I can tell if people are just going down the Genesis Developers list and copy and pasting a form letter. Or they say, “I’m looking for someone who doesn’t like just the pretty things” and I’m like, “Why are you contacting me? Like, did you look at I can tell if people are interested in hiring me specifically and when they are, it goes great. When they are not, it can still go great, but a lot of the times I’m not really what they’re looking for and I help them find that out.

Brian Gardner: Yeah, Lauren did a great job when we redesigned StudioPress and updated the Genesis Developers page by showcasing a select amount, I think it was four, of the latest portfolio shots of each developer. That is also sort of our way to help in that process of filtering through people. People can just scan the visuals really quickly and say, “Ah, peach and pastel. I love beachy stuff. I’m going to check her out.” Then you know it’s an alignment already built in.

Megan Gray: I totally get that. I agree with that design. I think also, I have noticed that has happened less, like the form letters, and I don’t know exactly where that comes from, but I do think there’s more of a quick visual cue now to see, “Ah, that’s not for me” or, “I love that.”

Keeping Focused Among Distraction

Brian Gardner: Okay, people; husband, kids, two kids now. How is the balancing work and family thing going on? I know that just recently you ended up … This was a question I was going to ask you later but it’s a good time now. You had recently cultivated your own office space, which is out of house, and all of that. I kind of wink at you here, because I follow you on social media and all that, and I can see the ups and downs as they come along with where you’re going with this. How is balancing work/life for you going right now?

Megan Gray: It’s really challenging. I won’t sugarcoat it. Having two kids is more than twice as difficult for balancing it all for me right now. But, I do think that I’m able to compartmentalize it. Just like if it’s not kids, it’s something else that people have outside of their work life where drawing those boundaries and just kind of … It sounds defeated, but it’s not lowering my expectations so that I’m not the person who has no kids or no family life and I can just work at all hours as long as I want whenever I want.

In that way, it has helped me be more focused about the time that I am working instead of just meandering through my day. Speaking of my studio space, when I’m there I notice that there are people who can move just at their own creative slower pace. Then there are those of us who have to pick up kids at 4 or some other commitment and we’re very heads down and focused on our work. For me, it’s just helped me be more organized. When I’m not, it’s very difficult to manage.

The office space, one of the reasons definitely, I sought that out was because I needed a little bit of a clearer boundary between my home life and my work life. Also, I think that when you work for yourself, by yourself, it’s really good to get out there. My space, in particular, is a mix of other types of creatives. It’s not all designers. At the moment, I think I’m the only designer. More photographers and event planners and sign artists because Laguna Beach is a great community for that. We’ve got guys who make surf boards from agave by hand in the back. Lots of interesting things.

I find that there are days where I just need to get out and be around other people making things and doing things. Sometimes somebody will say, “Hey, I need a logo to paint on this surf board” and then I’m right there. Or I need somebody to print business cards and it’s sort of a cooperative that way. Then there are days where I definitely need to stay at home and not go around all the energy and be really productive. It’s nice to have more options.

Lauren Mancke: I’m a bit jealous, because I really miss my old office space. It comes up a lot, it seems like, lately on these podcasts. I have planned for my new office. There’s a new coworking place in my town, too, that just opened up that looks pretty cool. It’s their second location so I might be hitting that up more frequently.

Megan Gray: Yeah, coworking is nice when you can just drop in on the days that you need to get out of your head and then retreat when you need to get back in your head. I found that coworking in some cases here, there’s a couple choices in Orange County, but I worry about my productivity where it’s a really social element. In the studio that’s over by Laguna Beach I have my own actual office instead of a drop-in desk. That’s been huge for me.

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Experience Gained While Working in a Traditional Agency

Brian Gardner: All right. Let’s turn back the clock a few years and discuss your tenure at 10up. For those who don’t know, 10up is a brilliant WordPress high-end agency led by Jake Goldman, a friend of mine and friend of Megan’s. They do high-end client’s work such as Microsoft, Google, Entertainment Weekly, to name a few. As an independent creative, how did you end up in a situation where you’re working for the man?

Megan Gray: The man Jake Goldman?

Brian Gardner: Yes.

Megan Gray: Jake actually, I think, discovered me on Twitter, if I remember correctly, and reached out to me. I hadn’t been seeking out an opportunity like that, but I was immediately interested when we discussed things. I thought, “Take a shot, level up my skills, learn from some really great engineers” and that’s pretty much what happened. I started there as a project manager, which I think that became clear pretty quickly that that was not the best fit for me. I moved into a design role and worked on some of the internal products that they were developing at the time. That’s how I found myself there and it was a great experience.

Brian Gardner: What did you learn while you were there? I had been following you and we had known each other before you went to 10up and I was actually a little bit shocked because, first of all, there’s creatives who need to work. In other words, they’re the breadwinner of their family and they have to just make decisions that sometimes aren’t necessarily what I think they would love to do.

This was one of those cases where I was like, “I don’t think Megan has to take on a full-time job in order to live and eat and all of that.” I was somewhat confused, almost, in a sense because I was like, “She seems like such an open creative.” I was curious behind the rationale as to why you would have taken that.

I think we’ve had a few people on this show who have also done that too, where you get to a point where you’re kind of done, and Lauren, we’ve talked about this before even with you in your own agency, that you get to a point where sometimes you’re just so tired trying to generate business and sometimes it’s just easier, or maybe your family situation warrants it, where you need something more stable and whatnot, so you make that call. For you, it just didn’t seem like that was the case.

Megan Gray: It wasn’t the case that I was forced into looking for a stable thing. It certainly helped and I benefited from it, but for me the drive was, and this is maybe a little crazy, but when something scares the crap out of me, I make myself do it. For me, at the time, where I was in my career, 10up was the gold standard of tough agency gigs to get into in this space. I did not feel like I was up to the challenge so I made myself do it.

When I got in there I was very intimidated, because then and now I think some of the best people in the business work there and they were good at their jobs. I was coming from a place of being a freelancer who just didn’t have that agency experience or tons of experience in general. I got good quickly.

I guess what I learned from there is just how to be a smarter designer and consider things more from an engineering perspective. When I got there I was making pretty things. I think that after leaving there I made smarter things and I made better decisions and I thought about the whole picture of web design and product development more than I did before. I made some great friendships and people I trust who I still call on today and say, “Hey, this is an idea I have. Is it crazy?” They’re still some of the people I lean on constantly.

Lauren Mancke: I think, for me, choosing to leave the agency that I had built was a big decision because it was not really the stress of generating leads. It was almost like there were too many leads coming my way. It was hard to turn everything down to make time. I knew I wanted to start a family. I couldn’t spend 80 hours a week working. What are some things in your current situation that cause you stress? Are there any things that get in the way of your productivity that you’ve been able to work out a way around those things?

Megan Gray: I think what we touched on before, the family thing, with two kids that I really want to build my life around, the idea that I can be there for them when they need me at school or when they’re sick or when they’re having a bad day. That’s been a big challenge. Also just, I would say I’m my own challenge. When I get burnout or I feel uninspired or just not into it in the moment, trying to reinvigorate that creative energy that I have.

Other challenges of just life stuff honestly. Life in southern California makes inner things chaotic and challenging. Taking that time away in my studio and just kind of re-centering and reflecting on what I’m doing has really helped me maintain that focus.

Brian Gardner: Yeah, hanging out at Disneyland every other week also does that. Although I haven’t seen you post pictures of that lately.

Megan Gray: Yeah, I don’t really do the Disneyland thing anymore. It’s a little too much for me. A little too much.

Brian Gardner: That’s not too far from where you’re at, right? That’s in Anaheim.

Megan Gray: Yeah, it’s like 20 or 30 minutes. We used to have that annual pass and then it was just like, “Hey, I don’t think we’re having fun here anymore. It’s super overwhelming to come every week. Why do we keep forcing ourselves to do this?”

The Onboarding Process of Custom Projects

Lauren Mancke: What is the typical process you have for bringing a new client on board? You touched on it a little bit earlier about some of the things, they’ve already seen your work, they like what you do. Is there any other criteria that you specifically look for when you’re talking to a person about a potential project that’s the right fit for you?

Megan Gray: Yeah, I tend to now book a couple months out and it’s usually a pretty big red flag when somebody cannot wait at all. We just talk a little bit about money and timeline and the standard housekeeping things. I really whittled down the number of email exchanges I go through before I either close the deal or move on. One of the ways I’ve done that is just a really simple pricing PDF that I have that goes over simple packages that I offer, the prices for everything and the process and what it does and does not include. That’s been a friendly little barrier to entry to working with me.

Then, when I bring them on board, I know it’s really popular to automate a lot of that process now, but I don’t feel comfortable doing that because I really like the personal connection. I like doing things similar but differently a little bit every time. So I just kind of walk them through and onboard everyone just a little bit differently because no two projects are the same. Yeah, and it’s pretty clear process of designing and building out everything from there.

Brian Gardner: Speaking of projects, are there any in particular that stand out to you as being Megan’s favorite projects and whatnot?

Megan Gray: I didn’t prepare for that. You know, I don’t think so at the moment. I’m just doing a little bit of everything. One of the projects I did earlier this year was for a pop-up dinner company that had services. Their first pop-up dinner was actually in Lima, Peru and I got to be involved in the logo, the branding, the messaging. I actually threw up a quick site with a Café Pro theme for that.

Then we actually had videography, photography. That was a really fun and meaningful project for me, although it had a smaller reach. It was really hands on, a big collaboration with different creatives and videographers. That was just called Salt. That’s in my portfolio. That was an exciting one for me and it has a little video with it.

Brian Gardner: What is your favorite element of design? You just talked about how some of them you’ve done multiple elements of the whole process. Is logo your favorite part? Is overall site design your favorite part? What part of design in general do you think is the thing that brings the most joy to your life?

Megan Gray: Right now it’s actually just the strategy and the messaging, with the copy writing, so it’s kind of going back to my roots as a writer. That’s something I’m actually helping WP Site Care with right now is just re-strategizing or re-branding their messaging, all their on boarding materials, the customer messages. Everything that is less the production design and actual visual design and more of the whole brand experience and all the little touch points from social media to just all the interactions that they have with the customer, which is new for me to be really, really engaged with that.

Creative Outlets Beyond the 9 to 5

Lauren Mancke: So outside of designing, if you’re anything like me, I have a Halloween costume problem. Basically, I just spend way too much time creating costumes and it’s just really something I enjoy. I just like to do things outside of my regular medium which is digital. Designing things that are interior design or designing labels for my hot sauce or stuff like that really, really brings me a lot of fun, enjoyment, just to do a design for myself. Is there any other types of design that you like to work on?

Megan Gray: I do a lot of those little personal projects that you were kind of describing as well. Nothing as cool as that mini Hamilton costume that you shared. It’s just little things where … I definitely am into interior design and everything in my house being my way.

Brian Gardner: Not Ron’s way. Your way.

Megan Gray: My way. Little things like I put a blend of essential oils for my kids when I was gone and I printed labels and made a whole packaging thing for them. I guess that’s not something that normal people do, now that I think about it, but it’s something I enjoy.

Lauren Mancke: The Hamilton costume really everybody is impressed because that photo is so good. My friend is a photographer. Everyone is impressed I think with the photo more than the costume.

Megan Gray: No, I don’t think so. I was interested in the gold buttons.

Lauren Mancke: Those were just brads on white duct tape. Not super time-consuming. I think we did it in under an hour.

Megan Gray: I think it’s the idea that’s impressive. The brads and the duct tape instead of buttons. Just the creativity. But, the photo is great too.

Lauren Mancke: The kid has really long hair, so that makes it too, I think.

Megan Gray: It’s perfection.

Brian Gardner: All right, so outside of being creative, I know even when we’re not being creative we’re still being creative, because that’s just sort of our human nature. What are the things, Megan, and I want to hear from Lauren too on this one. Megan, what are the things outside of even being creative when you’re not being creative that you do to pass the time? I like to run. Even in that, I find creativity but I don’t exercise creativity in that. I just, I run. What are the things you do that are completely creatively agnostic that take up your time or just help you decompress and get your mind off things and whatnot?

Megan Gray: Yeah, I’ve recently gotten into podcasts and I just consume them like crazy. They just give me all sorts of ideas and weirdly make me a better writer to listen to. Then I’ve gotten into yoga, which, I used to laugh at people who did yoga, but I really like it now. I find that, this is probably not the answer you’re expecting, but I find that when other people like to do creative things … Like at my son’s school people DIY a lot of cool stuff. They’re making an adventure playground.

I feel like I just want to do accountant, data entry stuff because I feel like I use up every bit of creativity I have at work. I feel like I want the antithesis of that when I have down time. I guess I do like to consume other people’s creative work, but when it comes to DIY or anything like that I feel totally tapped out. It’s easy to be creative digitally, because you can easily undo or reproduce or replicate things. When I go to DIY something I’m like, “Ugh, command Z”. I have to start over.

Lauren Mancke: Undo that glue.

Megan Gray: Yeah, undo that. “I want a copy of this, so I’m just going to keep cloning it. No? I have to make more myself? Huh.” It’s just interesting, because I found that I tend to like to enjoy other people’s creativity in my downtime, but as far as making things like crafty Lauren I just, I don t know, I don’t have it. I don t have it.

Lauren Mancke: I think I’m crafty to a certain extent of, that it’s something that s not … takes patience. Like painting or anything for me that has to be very meticulous, I don’t have the patience for that. If it can be something done quickly, duct tape, you know, add duct tape to a sweater, I got that. If I had to sew that, that would take too much time.

Megan Gray: Yeah, I hear you.

Following Your Own Path Instead of Looking to Others

Brian Gardner: All right. What else does Megan Gray stand for, outside of design, being a mom and a wife, and all that kind of stuff? What else would you be defined as, in terms of leaving a legacy? What are the things in your life, when you find time and can fit them into a crazy and chaotic schedule, that you want to be known as?

Megan Gray: I like to sort of be a champion for the little guy to the extent that I can. Part of my tagline, “Design for the people,” that’s kind of what that’s about as well, which is that I have never had the interest that other designers have to work on something that everyone will touch. That doesn’t inspire to me or call to me to be a big name or work for big names.

I’ve always really liked to work for the small businesses and the people trying to make it. I really like to reach out and share or be vulnerable with something, like whether it’s a postpartum experience or a growing up a certain way experience. I like to write and speak to those people. Not that I think I’m so impactful that I can help thousands, but I always believe if I can help one person make a leg up in their business or one person who is struggling with something postpartum or one person who thinks that they don’t deserve to be a designer, then to me that is something I’m really interested in. It really drives why I work independently so that I can do that.

Lauren Mancke: What advice would you give, because you’ve touched on this a little bit just a second ago and before in the podcast, about when you’re a young creative that insecurity that you feel? What advice could you give any young creatives out there listening right now?

Megan Gray: I think they key is to just go in the direction of what you love. That might not always be the popular thing or the thing that everyone else is doing. But, if you start early doing what you love and you just keep at it, you’re going to be the best person who does that thing. You are going to be happier than the people who are doing whatever is trendy or popular or lucrative at the moment. I think it’s really easy to get distracted by someone else’s podcast or someone else’s e-course or someone else’s new theme or product.

I think if those things interest you or speak to you, yes, chase them. If you just feel like you need to keep up with what everyone else is doing to stay relevant, I just think no. Do what you love if you have the position to do so. Just be who you are and that will always, I think, win out and catch up with … You would be your biggest success.

Filtering Out The Noise

Megan Gray: To expand on that I guess just a little, to maybe keep it going is, I struggle. I think we all struggle. Anyone sitting here on a podcast in a position to offer advice, even those people, we don’t know. I don’t think anyone has it figured out. I think there’s so much noise now with social media and constantly seeing what everyone is doing or one-tenth of what they’re doing, like their good spots. I think it’s really hard to, on the one hand, consume what other people are creating to inspire yourself, and then also to block out the noise and filter it to be like, “That’s great, but this is who I am, and this is what I am doing and that is enough.” It’s a real challenge to pay attention but filter out the noise.

Brian Gardner: Yeah, I guess where I was going with that is, in my life, when I came up for the idea for this show, kind of a chaotic world, I think of people who are getting on a train or a bus or driving in traffic and doing what the world sees as being busy and chaotic. In my mind, I work from home and I get into my office, sit in my chair, like at 6am and do some things. I spend a lot of time online in my chair doing stuff. I’m not necessarily busy externally. In other words, I don’t have things to do and errands to do and all that kind of stuff. Thankfully, Shelly can take care of a lot of that stuff.

In my head I am very busy by way of things you mentioned, things, people you see online, the noise, the emulating that I want to do when I see something on Dribble from guys like Bill. That is, in it’s own sense, a way of being mentally busy where … This leads into my next question which is who are the people that you look up to and the ones that … When I ask that question to myself I’m like, “Well, who do I look up to? It’s the people who I wish I could emulate.” People who I want to rip off and in fun and tongue in cheek say, “I love that design. I’m going to steal it.” Who are the people in the creative space, they don’t have to necessarily be designers, they could be musicians or whatever, that bring to you a breath of fresh creative air and some inspiration and things that help bring you down from the business rather than add to it?

Megan Gray: Yeah, a designer specifically that I’ve just always admired is Jesse BC or Jesse Bennett-Chamberlain. He used to be 31Three and I think he’s with Shopify now. I’ve always loved how he is just so absolutely masterful with his craft. His designs are how I found him. I always thought, “Wow, that’s a real designer. That’s real stuff.” Back when I was just doing whatever.

Then I met him at Circles Conference and I was just blown away by how quiet and reserved and humbled he was. I introduced myself, and then awkwardly like I am, I said, “Oh, I don’t mean to keep you” and he’s like, “No, talk to me about what you’re doing, what you’re working on.” I was like, “What? What is this?” I’ve always just loved how he’s not particularly self-promoting. He’s not particularly out there trying to be the biggest and the best. He’s just quietly, comfortably kicking all kinds of ass in this way that feels really genuine and authentic to me.

Then on a more of a business perspective and somebody who is doing what they do, I still continue to think of Jake Goldman, former boss at 10up, as one of my mentors who I still reach out to who is somebody who just does not care what other people think of him. Or he does, but it does not influence his decisions. He is just everyday, everyday he is the same person. He is consistent and true to himself. That is really inspiring to me because I struggle with that. A lot of us struggle with that. Those are two people that I think I can look to when I need a little inspiration or a fresh take.

Lauren Mancke: That’s some really good advice. We’re really happy you were able to come on the show today, Megan. Thank you so much for all of the wisdom you’ve imparted. Do you have any other words for our listeners?

Megan Gray: I don’t. I think the closing is just to block out the noise and keep doing you and it will get you wherever you’re trying to go, I think.

Brian Gardner: There we go. Words from Megan Gray. Everybody at StudioPress FM. Thank you so much for listening. In the show notes, on the show page, we have all kinds of great links to Megan so you can follow her, you can look at her work. If you’re looking for someone to design something for you and you don’t mind pastels and beaches, then check out Megan’s portfolio.

Megan Gray: Thank you so much.

Brian Gardner: Until next week. Thanks again for listening.

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